Slashdot Mirror


Netflix Executive Admits a VPN-Blocking Policy Might Be Impossible To Enforce (theglobeandmail.com)

An anonymous reader writes: Netflix's chief product officer Neil Hunt has admitted that the company has 'no magic solution' to subscribers who use VPNs to access content not licensed for their geographical region, commenting that 'It's likely to always be a cat-and-mouse game'. Hunt notes that Netflix can only rely on lists of VPN IP addresses, and that these can easily be changed. However since Netflix subscribers pay for the service via geographically linked credit and debit cards, this article wonders if Netflix really believes that hundreds of thousands of their subscribers are permanently in migration or on holiday — and also that venerable old VPN IP addresses — ones so well-known that they are routinely challenged by services such as CloudFlare — never seem to have any trouble connecting to a Netflix account.

36 of 172 comments (clear)

  1. Netflix doesn't care by Fwipp · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Netflix doesn't care if people outside the Approved Content Zone are watching (and paying). They only have to pretend to care, to appease the other corporations they're licensing media from.

    1. Re:Netflix doesn't care by gstoddart · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No, I'm sure Netflix doesn't care -- probably because they know they can't do anything about it, and because it's not really hurting their bottom line.

      Of course, the media cartel will start pushing for even crazier locks to ensure nobody can ever see something without their express permission.

      I doubt they'd ever pull it off, but I can imagine someone demanding hardware fobs with built in GPS or something equally draconian and idiotic. Or having such a system me required to be included in computers.

      Because as far as they're concerned, they should have veto rights over every piece of technology on the planet.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    2. Re:Netflix doesn't care by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 5, Insightful

      ^^^ This. Plus the smart ones realize that that someone paying $8/month is the best they'll get: if they cut them off at the knees, we, I mean they, will just go back to being 100% pirate.

    3. Re:Netflix doesn't care by xfizik · · Score: 2

      And that is fine with me. I really don't care if they care.

    4. Re:Netflix doesn't care by The-Ixian · · Score: 4, Insightful

      As a matter of fact, at some point in the last year or two, Netflix went to a "per screen" subscription model.

      This implied (to me anyway) an acknowledgement of the fact that people share accounts with friends and family.

      Instead of putting a damper on account sharing, they used the opportunity to offer different screen numbers at different price points.

      They could have started banning accounts or locking to a particular IP or something, but they didn't take the heavy handed approach.

      It was a really smart move and shows that they are flexible.

      --
      My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
    5. Re:Netflix doesn't care by Nikker · · Score: 2

      AFAIK being a Canadian subscriber, the US version of Netflix I would have the lions share of content. If so then they would be able to see what content was viewed by users who have registered information from other locations. They could use this to make offerings and tailor their service to other markets.

      So really it's not a loss for either the content owners or Netflix, they get to see a preview of demand and negotiate accordingly to bring that to the location that favors them the most.

      --
      A loop, by its nature, continues. If that didn't make sense, start reading this sentence again.
    6. Re:Netflix doesn't care by lgw · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No, I'm sure Netflix doesn't care -- probably because they know they can't do anything about it, and because it's not really hurting their bottom line.

      The Netflix CEO recently gave a speech as CIS where he said "sharing is good". They're happy with multiple people watching a screen, they're happy with parents sharing their password with kids (and the multi-screen option looks cheap to me), because they know people would rather have their own accounts, and likely will when they stop being broke students.

      I think he gets it.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    7. Re:Netflix doesn't care by Coren22 · · Score: 3, Informative

      My Netflix account even has three sub accounts for the same price! Each account has its own preferences and watch list. There is no reason for my kids, or my parents, to go out and get their own accounts as there is nothing they are missing out on by sharing my account.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    8. Re:Netflix doesn't care by grahamtriggs · · Score: 2

      There is nothing you can do about people using VPNs, but you could easily make other changes, and not care about the IP address - acknowledging and recognising the people go on holiday.

      That's a bigger bugbear with some of these services than the content restrictions - take Mubi. I can download content onto my tablet for offline viewing. But if I happen to turn the network, it realises I'm not in the region that I downloaded the content, and suddenly i can't watch it. Hey, it happens to be that I'm on holiday - let me watch the god damn content that I have paid for and am legally entitled to watch.

    9. Re:Netflix doesn't care by hummassa · · Score: 2

      YES. And their monies are better spend licensing content and PRODUCING the great content they are producing. So, geoblocking would be a lose-lose anyway.

      --
      It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048
    10. Re:Netflix doesn't care by SimonTheSoundMan · · Score: 4, Informative

      Apple does the same with movies and TV programmes purchased through iTunes. Went to America, purchased a few films to watch, with my British iTunes account. Get home, cannot watch them as soon as I connect with a British IP. Go back to America, all is fine.

    11. Re:Netflix doesn't care by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Pretty much this.

      I wish media companies would hurry up and just get rid of this retarded problem.
      The major issue with this system is advertising. Geographically related ads is a stupidly trivial thing to create dynamically in a data stream.
      Person streaming from UK, splice UK-related ad streams instead of US, instead of French, instead of whatever. Simple.
      The other issue is simply plain stupid tradition, ignorance and greed.

      The more these companies try to push back at the ONLY way media is going to evolve, they will just make more pirates.
      Online distribution is the superior gene (technically meme). It will go places TV can't.
      Interactive TV will also become a larger part of that. It is partially getting there in some trials here and there, but the biggest indication of it right now is indirect interactivity through things like Twitter and Facebook inspiration.
      There will still be a place for TV, it will simply evolve to streams that can be created by TV stations or even people.
      You could subscribe to a Sci-fi stream, or maybe hard sci-fi, maybe only classic sci-fi.
      This sort of system vastly improves on what can be done with TV, and cheaper.
      There is no point trying to fight it because it would get you MORE money since people are actually watching things they are interested in!

      If they kill it now, they will lose more and more people to piracy.
      It will be their loss and then our loss as companies lose money and sales so stuff gets cancelled.
      STOP TRYING TO KILL ONLINE.
      Get rid of stupid geo-locked crap.

    12. Re:Netflix doesn't care by tlhIngan · · Score: 3, Insightful

      They could have started banning accounts or locking to a particular IP or something, but they didn't take the heavy handed approach.

      IP blocking doesn't work - because someone can watch Netflix at home using their home broadband, while someone else is using a mobile connection. Or maybe if they're all together, mom, dad, and the children are each on their own devices using their own data with 4 separate IPs.

      That's why limiting IPs isn't feasible - there are very legitimate reasons to have multiple IPs even if everyone is in the same room!

    13. Re:Netflix doesn't care by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 2

      Especially since most violations of the Approved Content Zone are subscribers who are temporarily away from home. It should not be difficult for Netflix to make sure that a subscriber lives in the place where he claims to be, and only a dedicated buccaneer would go to the trouble of keeping up a subscription at a US address while actually living in Thailand. VPN users are going to be Americans who happen to be in Germany the week they want to stream Netflix content that is tagged as US-only.

      I'll watch my show where I want to, and the Hollywood lawyers can go f* themselves.

    14. Re:Netflix doesn't care by sims+2 · · Score: 2

      Sub accounts? Is that new?

      Netflix has profiles for different users on a single account but its not compatible with older netflix clients.

      I would not call the profiles features sub accounts though as the profiles are not password protected and you have to trust everyone on your account not to change the password nuke your viewing history or swap to your profile and watch an entire season of mlp.

      --
      Minimum threshold fixed. Thanks!
    15. Re:Netflix doesn't care by TapeCutter · · Score: 2

      Geo blocking has very little to do with advertising. It's all about the content owner selling EXCLUSIVE rights to a TV network, cinema chain, pay TV channel, etc. The exclusivity only applies to a region. It a method for maximising profits in a global market, content owners get to sell as many exclusive licenses as there are regions.When those agreements expire they start selling non-exclusive licenses. Netflix and VPN make a mockery of their exclusive licenses, however Netflix is now a major distributor and a major source of revenue for content owners, so content owners who use geo-blocking now find themselves contemplating killing the global goose that pays the bills. They have been threatening to do so from the beginning, just like a hopeless alcoholic threatens to give up drinking every morning.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    16. Re:Netflix doesn't care by mysidia · · Score: 2

      Are there legitimate reasons for one device to have multiple public IPs simultaneously?

      Yes, it's called being multihomed. Also MP-TCP/IPMP.

      Linux and Apple iOS support it for starters, and it can greatly improve network performance.

      There are also firewall devices which will balance traffic sourced across WANs.

      Or may use a public IP address NAT pool, where different TCP connections from the same end host will be sourced from different public IPs, because they're different connection ID numbers.

    17. Re:Netflix doesn't care by Midnight+Thunder · · Score: 2

      Things become a little murkier if you add IPv6, which Netflix supports, by means of AWS. The blocks are huge and variable in size. The challenge of blocking IP ranges is asking what is a fair range to block, without incurring collateral damage? Then add to that the creativity of people looking to get around geographical IP blocks, which certainly makes things a case of cat and mouse.

      What really needs to happen is for the media cartels to accept that their 'per geography' distribution models are starting to crack and if they want to keep control, then they need to be a little more flexible?

      --
      Jumpstart the tartan drive.
  2. Who wants geo-blocking? by Ost99 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Netflix wants global license deals for the content, they have no self interest in blocking VPN users.

    Netflix will do just enough to make sure they don't get content pulled by the content owners or jeopardize future content deals. If they can convince the content owners that the VPN problem cannot be solved, all the better for both Netflix and the users.

    --
    ---- Sig. gone.
    1. Re:Who wants geo-blocking? by AHuxley · · Score: 2

      Established coax networks in different nations want to bring exclusive shows to hype their ability to release in time with a US or UK release date.
      With video online any service can bring that same show to that nation at a lower cost per show or season or series.
      Thats why nations keep been lobbied by established national coax or network brands to protect their regional total control over a market.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  3. MPAA is that you? by The-Ixian · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This article certainly seems to be slanted toward the interests of the copyright holders.

    I think that as long as Netflix makes a token effort, that is all that is required. As has been stated many times in these comments, "Follow the money"

    Why would Netflix be interested being heavy handed about who they sell subscriptions to? There are legitimate reasons someone might be streaming over a VPN. Perhaps the VPN user is worried about ISP snooping or is on a public network.

    Anyway, I am not super optimistic about Netflix's future. Now that other content providers have their own distribution systems, they don't really need Netflix any more. I find less and less content on Netflix all the time. I actually find that I am watching my add-free Hulu more than anything these days.

    --
    My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
    1. Re:MPAA is that you? by rsborg · · Score: 2

      NBC, ABC, CBS, CWTV, MTV, Disney, and more offer streams of recent episodes of their prime time shows with commercials of course or possibly without or with more content for a small monthly fee. Netflix isn't what it used to be but there are plenty of other options, right now aside of from the netflix originals they don't have anything I can't get on hulu or free and legal somewhere else, I cut cable TV a few years ago when all those stations started offering their prime time shows and haven't really felt like I was missing anything.

      Sorry, commercials are a showstopper for me. YMMV, of course, but Hulu doesn't come close to what I use Neflix for. Which is probably why they're doing so well.

      --
      Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
    2. Re:MPAA is that you? by Wraithlyn · · Score: 2

      Now that other content providers have their own distribution systems, they don't really need Netflix any more.

      This is exactly why Netflix is going gangbusters on producing their own (high-quality) content.

      Once the digital-distribution playing field has levelled somewhat, the content-owners will (once again) hold all the cards. Netflix is preparing for that.

      --
      "Mind, as manifested by the capacity to make choices, is to some extent present in every electron." -Freeman Dyson
  4. What if you're on US "soil" abroad? by mitcheli · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I had to use VPN's to watch my properly paid for Netflix account while I was stationed overseas on a US Military Base. For all intensive purposes, I was on US soil (meeting geographic requirements), using a US leased commercial provider and was a US serviceman using a US form of payment. How much more US can I be besides being on the mainland? Yet, my access was blocked. One VPN later and my viewing was restored. Sometimes we need VPN's to make it all work.

    --
    Select from tblFriends where interesting >= 4;
    1. Re: What if you're on US "soil" abroad? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      For all intents and purposes

    2. Re:What if you're on US "soil" abroad? by lgw · · Score: 5, Funny

      For all intensive purposes, I was on US soil

      Given you were on a base, I assume you meant "for all in tents, and porpoises".

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    3. Re:What if you're on US "soil" abroad? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      You even munged "for all intents and purposes" like an American. If that's not good enough for Netflix, then I don't know what is.

    4. Re: What if you're on US "soil" abroad? by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 2

      It's English. Just wait another fifty years and you'll probably be right.

    5. Re:What if you're on US "soil" abroad? by 110010001000 · · Score: 4, Funny

      What a looser. I'll bet he could care less.

    6. Re: What if you're on US "soil" abroad? by Revarg · · Score: 2

      DAMN YOU ALANIS MORISSETTE!

  5. This is not Netflix's problem to solve by QuietLagoon · · Score: 3, Insightful
    The root cause of the problem is the ignorance-driven policies of the media content industries, who continue to deny that the world is getting smaller.

    .
    Media content industries who want to continue to live in the good ole days.

    Media content providers who are so afraid of technology that they are unable and {gasp!} unwilling to leverage it for profit.

  6. Re:Now available globally anyway... by 110010001000 · · Score: 2

    Not all Netflix content is available in all markets. There is a workaround though: Bittorrent.

  7. Funny by dyslexicbunny · · Score: 2

    To me, that's a sign people want to watch whatever content and there's stupid bullshit in the way of making it a reality.

    You'd think that's a sign that we'd just make all content universally available all at once so everyone can enjoy it and discuss it with likeminded people. But there are too many vested interests making that implausible. Sigh.

  8. Take My Money! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I pay for content when I can get it, honestly these services are MORE CONVENIENT than fiddling around with torrents / content streaming sites

    Does the industry make more money by blocking content than not?? If so how???

    Why even create a pirate economy? To sell DRM which is expensive and easily circumvented??

    I don't understand it and I probably never will...

  9. Oddly enough I use a VPN to *NOT* watch Netflix US by GreatDrok · · Score: 2

    Personally, I'm really into documentaries and the likes. The problem is Netflix US has all these utterly terrible american style docs which stop every five minutes to recap due to ad breaks which aren't there (in case you haven't seen them, the streamlined Mythbusters are a joy if you know where to get them because they chop out all this crap)

    Anyway, Netflix UK has a lot more really good documentaries and since they're for UK viewers, particularly the BBC where there aren't adverts, you get a solid hour of really good information rather than 'Aliens' almost immediately followed by 'Before the break, Aliens'.

    If Netflix can switch to a global model all the better but for now I have little choice but to pay a little extra to enable me to fully utilise the service because if I was stuck with the US version I don't think I would care enough to pay the monthly subscription.

    --
    "I have the attention span of a strobe lit goldfish, please get to the point quickly!"
  10. Re:Oddly enough I use a VPN to *NOT* watch Netflix by SimonTheSoundMan · · Score: 2

    Personally, I'm really into documentaries and the likes. The problem is Netflix US has all these utterly terrible american style docs which stop every five minutes to recap due to ad breaks which aren't there (in case you haven't seen them, the streamlined Mythbusters are a joy if you know where to get them because they chop out all this crap)

    You'll enjoy this: That Mitchell and Webb Look - Gift Shop Sketch I'm looking for a gift for my aunt.