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OSINT Analysis of Militia Communications, Equipment and Frequencies (wordpress.com)
An anonymous reader writes: On January 2, 2016, the headquarters of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Oregon, United States, were occupied by armed members of rump militias in one of the longest-running law enforcement standoff in American history. The Radiomasterreport blog, using publicly available information, wrote an OSINT Analysis of Militia Communications, Radio Equipment and Frequencies. The research results has astonishing conclusions: far-right patriot militas openly carrying +3000$ AR15 rifles and US military body armour also use cheap 30$ unsecure chinese Baofeng walkie talkie radios with no encryption whatsoever. Any simple ham radio operator , police scanner owner, or even some folks with a Software Defined Radio can receive those militia communications.
have no concept of operational security. And now to Ric Romero with the news!
Liberty - Security - Laziness - Pick any two.
Those Baofeng walkies rock. Cheap as shit and I've had a successful link with someone 40KM away with dense forest hills and one major city in the way. All it took was two car mounted antennae. Working on making a repeater box right now.
Don't you mean "domestic terrorists" or "insurgents" or even "illegal combatants"
at least thats what you call non-army, armed, hostile groups everywhere else in the world.
America always had a terrorist problem, themselves.
OH... Here I read that to mean 3,000 $1.00 AR15's and I was going to ask where I could get $10 worth for my gun collection...
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
Encryption is prohibited for amateur radio communications.
Have gnu, will travel.
You can certainly get an AR for well under $1,000. However, decent optics can cost about as much as the rifle. Rifles are only useful if you can actually hit the target. So, that is at least $1,500. You can also customize the AR platform with all sorts of "tacticool" goodies (lights, lasers, handles, etc.). Such upgrades also cost a premium. Still, $3,000 seems like too much for most people, but I am sure that you could spend $3,000 if you really wanted to.
"-1 Troll" is the apparently the same as "-1 I disagree with you."
Not really much of a standoff when you have local residents bringing you food and those inside the facility are able to come and go as they pleased. Hell, the leader of the group even left to go visit family in Boise at one point. That being said, as a 2nd Amendment supporter myself, these guys committed treason and openly engaged in an act of war against the US government by occupying federal property by force of arms. I believe that this action was no different than Jon Brown's Raid and the perpetrators should be punished accordingly.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
FCC says it's illegal to encrypt your voice transmissions, even to use code words to obfuscate your meaning. So try buying encrypted radios as a non LEO/Gov.
Lay off the A-Team reruns.
Describing an AK-47 as "engineered" is a complete misnomer. Whereas an AR-15 is designed to be accurate at 500 yards. This situation is further complicated by the fact that there's a wide variance in the quality and manufacture of AK-47s. Some are utter crap that aren't useful for anything. The best made AK's are actually not allowed to be imported to the US as rifles. So you end up with these odd "pistolized" AK-47s that look and feel like something out of a bad action movie.
Whereas a mediocre shot with a government issue American rifle can consistently split your hair at 200 yards.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Encryption is forbidden on HAM bands.
You could just transmit there with encryption anyway, especially if you're an armed militia in the middle of relatively-civil disobedience, but in the general case HAMs piss Kool-aid. They are basically government shills and will hunt you down more aggressively than the FCC.
I think it's a weird form of hazing and self-deception. The licensing process is basically like gun registration: we're not taking your radios now, but we want to know where they are in case we want to round them up later. After HAMs register in exchange for temporary protection, instead of saying, "d'oh. Why'd I do that? Now I have something to lose if I annoy FCC, and am easier to track," they say, "you should make the same mistake I did. Being a HAM is great."
consequence is, no one can use encryption in the general case, so there's no encryption on any radio an ordinary person can buy.
It's good to have practice like this. "Gun nuts" should probably expand their advocacy to other things a hypothetical revolution against tyranny would need, like radios. It should have occurred to me before, but didn't.
I guess it is the difference between being open and honest and being being on the corrupt murderous side with lots to hide.
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
Accuracy isn't everything. If a weapon gets dropped and the barrel is rendered unusable, then what good is it? This is why AK-based weapons have prevailed in Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, and many other places, as they are designed for battle conditions, not punching paper. If I am wrong on this, please have some actual evidence. ARs are cool looking and you can stick everything including the kitchen sink... but AKs win wars.
There are lots of nice ones like LMT for under 2000... 3000 is really stretching it.
love is just extroverted narcissism
They are holed up in what amounts to a state owned shed in the middle of nowhere in protest over a legal dispute. This isn't some sort of waco standoff, no matter how hard some sections of the media try an paint this as domestic terrorism.
An AR15 with a fleshlight attachment? I shouldn't be so surprised, some of the guys I saw on the news had a distinct aura of making love to their guns.
Well, you'd have to be stupid to mount a shitty $200 scope on a $1000 rifle but a $2000 scope would be another story... and there's your $3000 AR (and not necessarily chambered in wimpy 5.56, either).
The best made AK's are actually not allowed to be imported to the US as rifles.
That would the Vepr and the Saiga (made by Molot and Izhmash, respectively) and yes, they are.
Yet USMC recruits qualify with the M16 at 500 yds with iron sights. The push for optics on standard issue military weapons was a response to the increase in close quarter combat brought on by a decade of urban war in the middle east. Many of these optics (like the very popular Trijicon ACOG) have little to no magnification (1x or 4x fixed magnification) You don't need a $1500 scope to be effective, you don't need a scope period.
For that matter, a $3000 dollar AR is no more lethal or accurate than an $800 dollar AR at the ranges that the vast majority of their owners are ever likely to shoot in either a self defense or hunting use. I have an AR I bought shortly before Sandy Hook from a local builder for $800 (goes for $1200+ now). It has proven to be extremely accurate, shooting decent factory ammo in 1/2 MOA groups at 100 yards and 1 MOA groups out to 300 yards. So, in the 5 shot groups I usually shoot when testing handloads or new factory ammo, that's 5 shots in approximately 1/2 inch at 100 yards and 5 shots in approximately 3 inches at 300 yards. When you are aiming at a man sized target with a vital area in say, a 12 inch circle, how much accuracy do you reallllly need? Even the crappiest AR available for sale will do 3 MOA at 300 yards, giving you a 9 inch "hit zone". A lot of the guys with expensive AR's are either compensating for poor shooting skills, trying to impress their friends, or are doing competition shooting (particulary 3 gun, with the requirement of shooting on the move having, the most inherently accurate rifle possible helps compensate).
Yeah, the tacticool market is up there with audiophiles...it's a hobby where there's plenty of affordable offerings and a lot of ridiculous snake oil. A Trijicon ACOG scope will run about $1300 by itself, to say nothing of custom compensators, bolt carrier groups, and charging handles. and that's just the beginning. These guys probably bought the $1000-1500 Rock River Arms then bolted on a bunch of aftermarket parts. Of course, it is equally possible they went boutique and nabbed a Daniel Defense rifle.
The other day I was going to a store right next to an Army recruitment center, and there were a couple of nuts standing outside it with ARs "protecting" it. One looked like he was at least 65 and if there was an attack he would have a heart attack from the stress before he could even get his rifle up. The other guy was carrying what was clearly intended as either a hunting or target shooting model with a longer, chromed barrel and had a standard rifle hunting scope mounted to it. In a real attack someone with iron sighs would have shot him 5 times before he could even acquire a target through that hunting scope, not to mention that a hunting scope would be useless at ranges that close.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
If you look at what the Hammonds have done over the last twenty years or so, what the "militia" up there has done, etc; These clowns got off easy.
Because they quote "scripture" and wear cowboy boots, they have gotten the soft approach from law enforcement, and everyone knows it.
Just imagine if something similar had taken place, except the "militia" was composed of African Americans, say, in Oakland or Memphis? It would have been a blood bath from the get go.
Also, why do these militia/patriot types think its their prerogative to use lethal force or violence to get what they want? WTF?!? That is what criminals do. Isn't this obvious enough?
We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
You can certainly get an AR for well under $1,000. However, decent optics can cost about as much as the rifle. Rifles are only useful if you can actually hit the target. So, that is at least $1,500. You can also customize the AR platform with all sorts of "tacticool" goodies (lights, lasers, handles, etc.). Such upgrades also cost a premium. Still, $3,000 seems like too much for most people, but I am sure that you could spend $3,000 if you really wanted to.
My dad once told me, "When your clubs are what's keeping you from a lower handicap, it's time to spend more money on them." He also insisted that I learn wing-shooting with a single-shot .410. My golf game still won't be helped much by new clubs, but I'm pretty damned sure that I can get more out of an off-the-rack piece than most of the wannabe's will with their $3000 AR's. It has always amazed me, tools like that, who look like they should be trusted with anything more lethal that a pointed stick, walking around gun shows, or at the range, with arms you just know will be, well... let's just say it, wasted.
The AK really isn't that much more reliable than AR. The reason you find the AK all over the world is that they are dirt cheap, being 95% made of folded metal. You can make an AK for about 1/4 the price of an AR (with it's machined receiver) - and that makes it easier to sell to impoverished warlords/Governments. So you get a lot more of them on the market. But more reliable? They're actually on about par.
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Iron sights can be hard to see in low-light conditions. Simply stated, iron sights are fine when you have a little extra time and conditions are good.
Having a decent red dot just makes thing quicker under more conditions than iron sights.
"-1 Troll" is the apparently the same as "-1 I disagree with you."
Whereas a mediocre shot with a government issue American rifle can consistently split your hair at 200 yards.
We must have different definitions of "mediocre". Most of those I'd paste with that label can't keep it on the paper at 200.
The second amendment says nothing about the right to encrypt communications, so why do it?
By the time you've finished all the modifications on what started as maybe a $500 rifle you'd have easily spent $2000. Honestly it seems like a piss poor way to arm a militia though. AK-47's are more reliable, highly accurate at realistic combat range, and about all you need to upgrade on one would be the stock. Take the other $1300-1400 dollars you didn't waste on your rifle and use it buy more ammo. But you know, gun religion and hate of the commie guns.
A huge chunk of that change you throw into your AR is to convert it to a gas system that is reliable like the AK comes with.
How true... Those Boefang rigs are *almost* cheap enough to throw away when the Li battery discharges, but they work great and paying shipping on a new one gets old. They sell these things by the case because they are *cheap* but serviceable. Don't drop them or carry them out into the rain, but if you do, don't worry, you can afford to have a couple of spares.
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
The problem is everyone with an AR wants to play sniper. In your group of 500 there are maybe 2-3 guys who should be carrying an upgraded rifle like that, and it should be bolt action 308 or nagant with great optics not an AR with it's tiny ineffective round. An AK with a modern stock that doesn't interfere with the iron sights is accurate and reliable at realistic combat ranges. The cheapest $600 AK's can be cleaned up and run side by side with the most expensive so with the new stock you are talking less than $700 out the door and 3-4 hrs of love. You have to spend the cost of an AK to convert an AR to a gas system that approaches reliability.
The AR is a fine platform don't get me wrong and can made as good if not superior to the AK once all the modifications are complete. But dollar per dollar bringing the platform just to the point of being solid, reliable, and combat ready the AR isn't even the same ballpark as the AK. With the kind of tight budgets you have in a militia you should be arming your troops with AK's and using the other $1300-3000 to buy ammunition or other supplies.
A $1000 rifle is good enough for playing dress up and getting shot.
Only Russians and Muslims use AK-47s. This is a fashion show afterall.
"For that matter, a $3000 dollar AR is no more lethal or accurate than an $800 dollar AR at the ranges that the vast majority of their owners are ever likely to shoot in either a self defense or hunting use."
.308 bolt action rifle or if you can find one a good quality nagant (you've got about 5 shots before barrel expansion becomes a problem but arguably if a sniper has shot more than 5 rounds it's time to move on especially in the kind of fighting against a superior force a militia is likely to be engaged in). A 50 cal is even better but the ammo is much much much more expensive and you probably don't have anyone in your group who is a good enough sniper that the round is needed.
Or a $500 AK given a couple hours of love to smooth the action and clean it up. But a $3000 AR is one with a gas system conversion that makes it MUCH more reliable than the $800 AR but not more reliable than the $500 AK. So if trying to arm hundreds of men on private funds, save the $300 vs the $800 AR and save the $2500 vs the $3000 AR and just buy the AK and run through a couple youtube videos worth of cleaning it up (take maybe 2-4hrs). Spend the rest on ammunition, which for real militia scale self defense is going to be a much more serious bottleneck.
As for the $3000 AR, that is pretending the AR is a sniper weapon and that puny round is not a sniper weapon. You'd be better off putting high quality optics on a
The bad rep of the AR is based on the M-16's penchant for jamming in Vietnam before a redesign fixed those problems. If you didn't keep an M-16 clean, it would fail to operate properly. Whereas in the same period, you'd have demonstrations of AK-47's that get buried, dug up, brushed off, knock the dirt out of it a little, and it would still fire.
The AK is not a particularly accurate or easy to control weapon, but it was made to work with much looser tolerances. If something wasn't tight or there was a little dirt in the machinery, it would still fire. This is a big deal in places where you'd be dragging through the mud all day, like most Third World war zones. Add that to having easy to manufacture stamped receivers, and you have a reliable, easy to produce weapon for export.
Assault rifles were designed when they realized that even the carbine versions of long rifles like the K-98k missed the point because while they were accurate out to a pretty long distance, they were heavy and cumbersome to operate, while most fighting took place at a much shorter range. The ability to lay down suppressive fire, while at the same time, having a reasonable amount of accuracy out to 200-300 yards, was more than good enough.
Now now I can get 60's era military surplus with DES only takes a dozen d batteries.
No sir I dont like it.
Don't knock the 65 year old. That is the point of guns, suddenly grandma is just as deadly as her grandson.
As for these idiots putting optics on AR and AK type rifles. I agree completely. If you are really trying to arm a group like that, drop the anti-commie heart strings and go with the most economically effective rifle in that class a cheap AK with a couple hours of love spent shining up the action and fixing the sights. You'll be able to drop a soda can every time out to 200 yards and a person pretty reliably beyond that if you are a good shot. It's the shooter not the equipment. An AR will compare favorably after a gas conversion to bring up the reliability but for the price of the conversion you could have armed a second militiaman with an AK or bought a couple thousand rounds of ammunition.Toss a slide-fire stock on there and you've got a perfectly legal weapon that basically amounts to having select fire with a far more controlled rapid firing than full auto (although you are probably better off buying the ammo instead).
If you are a good shot you can hit a soda can reliably at 150 yards with iron sights on either an AR or a cheap cleaned up AK. For ranges that actually justify the optics people are using you need a bolt action rifle with a larger round like a .308 hunting rifle at least.
No, you'd be really stupid to waste a $2000 scope on an AR. Put it on a bolt action rifle chambered for a larger round. It would make more sense to put a $2000 scope on a quality .308 hunting rifle than an AR. An AR is a gun for use at ranges up to about 250 yards. I'm not saying you can't successfully misuse it for longer ranges I'm saying it isn't a contender among rifles better suited to those ranges. And really, with the kind of money you have to drop in to modify an AR to compare with an AK at those ranges you are better off getting the AK and using the money you didn't spend on the gas conversion to buy a case or two of the superior ammunition it fires.
Don't knock the 65 year old. That is the point of guns, suddenly grandma is just as deadly as her grandson. As for these idiots putting optics on AR and AK type rifles. I agree completely. If you are really trying to arm a group like that, drop the anti-commie heart strings and go with the most economically effective rifle in that class a cheap AK with a couple hours of love spent shining up the action and fixing the sights. You'll be able to drop a soda can every time out to 200 yards and a person pretty reliably beyond that if you are a good shot. It's the shooter not the equipment. An AR will compare favorably after a gas conversion to bring up the reliability but for the price of the conversion you could have armed a second militiaman with an AK or bought a couple thousand rounds of ammunition.Toss a slide-fire stock on there and you've got a perfectly legal weapon that basically amounts to having select fire with a far more controlled rapid firing than full auto (although you are probably better off buying the ammo instead).
Eh, I've got a Bushmaster with the carbon fiber lower, so it's nice and light. Threw a foregrip on it and an $80 reflex sight w/ laser. The rifle was free for me (won it in a raffle), but the whole set up costs around $900 and works just as well as G.I. Joe Sixpack with his $3k tacticool rifle. If I ever have to use it beyond 25 yards I'm either at an outdoor range or things in America have gone the way of Syria.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
I am *sick* and tired of these self-proclaimed patriots... who want to take down the federal government, In the real world, as opposed to the la-la land they live in, that's called ->TREASON-.
Or, for a funny commentary, the last few days of the comic strip Non Sequitur.
mark
PS: the gov't can't own land? So, we don't own the Louisiana Purchase, or Seward's Folly (aka Alaska) (I doubt Putin would take back Palin's home porch....)?
Not to mention there are no defence contracts involving the AR-15, perhaps the AC is confusing the M-16 and AR-15?
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
Serious question:
I am interested in a $500 AK worth cleaning up. Can you point to one?
The cheapest of AK-47's can be polished up to stand next to the best in a couple hours after watching a few youtube videos. AR15's are more accurate to a longer range out of the box but an AK-47 is more than accurate enough to consistently kill people at 300 yards with iron sights.
.308 round for any task in which putting optics on my rifle doesn't make me ignorant or stupid.
Beyond 300 yards you can misuse an AR but there are definitely better rifles for someone looking to take down targets at this range and beyond, the AR doesn't really have a powerful enough round for it and semi-automatic mechanisms are less reliable than bolt action for this kind of shooting. What an AR fails to do is provide reliable operation in real conditions, at least not as designed. They can be retrofit with more reliable gas mechanisms to approach AK reliability but you could have armed a second soldier or bought ammunition for the first instead if you'd simply armed them with an AK.
Civilian armies typically have the same problem the soviets did, limited resources relative to the opposition, the AK is the obvious choice. There are really two reasons ARs are popular. The first is that former US military are inclined to use them due to familiarity, the gun is a demilitarized version of the M16 they used in service. Second is that hatred of "commies" was pushed so hard and with so much propaganda that people refuse to use what is a far more practical weapon because they have been programmed to hate the ideology of the people who designed it. It's about as silly as it would be to refuse to use normal sized hammers if the Russians had come up with them and insist on using tack hammers for every job because someone in the US came up with those first. I'll use the tack hammer where it is the best tool for the job, the normal hammer where appropriate, and a bolt action rifle with at least a
This is going to sound stupid, but have you ever play airsoft? It's the closest thing I can think of to using a gunsight in a combat situation (aka down on the ground, peaking around shit, etc). The iron sights are almost useless at close range. Why? Its not because you can't line up a perfect shot with them, it's because it takes too long. With a good close-range optic, you look through the scope and bam, there are the crosshairs, the head placement is very forgiving. With iron sights on the other hand, you have to look through that TINY hole in the rear site, and you need your eye to be close to it if you actually want to see anything. The reflex sites are even better, I can keep both my eyes open and bring my gun up, and instantly get a green dot superimposed on my vision. It's so fast you can do it at 10 yards or closer (like when you're watching a little hole the enemy might peak out of).
Saiga .308 with a 20 or 23" barrel...
With a paper-based OTP they are probably more secure than ANYTHING you can buy on the open market.
Wow. The least practical key management scheme is the most secure? Let's hope no one manages to recover the pad.
I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
You missed his second statement, "So try buying encrypted radios as a non LEO/Gov." You can be willing to violate the FCC reg all day but that won't make the equipment you need to do so magically appear.
Carrying a rifle is no crime. Resisting police and federal authorities is not neccesarily a crime either. When the actions of police and federal authorities are illegal it is no crime to stop them. Violating the Constitution is illegal, the Constitution is a higher law than the federal government and even the supreme court and the people are a higher law than the Constitution. Somehow people have gotten things screwed up, they think violating the laws congress makes is illegal and a crime but that violating the Constitution is not illegal or a crime. If the supreme court deliberately violates and misinterprets the Constitution which was intentionally written by laymen in plain English and the federal government deliberately ignores it or pays only token attention with loopholes that blatantly subvert the Constitution how are the people to act if not through the military power we specifically reserved for our civilian militias and denied to the federal government except by assembling those militias under a congressional declaration of war? The existence of the standing US army itself is high treason.
Yes. And remind me again what matter of imminent danger to the public private communications between citizens present that it completely trumps the powers we reserved in the first and second amendment?
Kudos to these ignorant religious nutjobs because while I am not a fan of their beliefs and methods the good of raising public light on this very thing alone overrides any harm they caused while hanging out in a shed in the woods holding a gun asserting that they'd defend themselves if someone tried to assault and kidnap them.
They are. It's like a Harley Davidson. You spend X on buying it and twice that much customizing it so you can find it in a sea of parked bikes.
Century Arms AK's do the trick and are inexpensive. Shop around, you can get one for $500-700. Give it a good cleaning as there will be metal shavings in there, check youtube for what to polish to make the mechanism more smooth if needed, a more modern tactical stock is preferred but not essential. There are pricey ones but the cheap ones get the job done as well. The youtube trail will show you all the things you CAN do to modify it, there are a couple cheap upgrade parts you'll encounter learning to disassemble and reassemble that make life easier on that front. Don't put a scope or dot sight or any of that crap on it. Mine came well sighted in right from the factory but the iron is adjustable if needed. The iron sights that come on the gun have an adjustment for the distance of the target if making long shots so you don't have to calculate the drop of the bullet. Maybe use a couple dabs of glow in dark paint on them.
My wife had never shot before, I went to a local range here in the city and they had a CA one that was completely beat to crap and never cleaned available as a rental. Said it was mostly shot by kids who though the AK's look cool with the curved clip. It was an indoor range so 50 yards was most you could do but I had no problem putting two test holes in the 2" red and then making a single quarter sized hole in the center of the red on the paper with the rest of the first clip at 50 yards using the iron. If you are missing your shots, it is far more likely you need to invest in upgrading the shooter than the gun. No shame in that, we can always learn from other shooters and practice our way to being better shots. Also, hitting the paper on a 6" round target at any range means a kill shot, not the center.
Agree with your AR vs. AK points, but this is totally wrong:
"The cheapest of AK-47's can be polished up to stand next to the best in a couple hours"
I've seen, handled and fired Russian, Chinese, Romanian and Bulgarian models. No amount of polish could possibly make that Romanian POS stand up to the Russian model.
You might want to talk to the towns people, that's not how they felt.
Units, brah:
$ = USD
3000 USD = 3000 $
Like:
mm = millimeter
34 mm = 34 millimeter
Do you even science, bro?
Only law enforcement and / or the government can afford the good toys. When have you EVER seen an off the shelf radio system with decent encryption and on the fly rekeying abilities ? Yeah, me either.
Just be mindful the channel is open and be selective in what you say. In fact, knowing you're transmitting in the clear AND knowing they're listening to it can be very useful if you say the right things.
As for AR prices, an Acog optic will set you back $1500. Very easy to get to $3k when you start swapping in high-quality ( read that accurate ) parts. Add on a decent lighting system, a tax stamp or two and maybe a suppressor and you'll be shocked at how much you just spent.
It's interesting how many posts belittle the folks in question. Yet, you should realize that sometimes the other side just refuses to take no for an answer and diplomacy just doesn't work.
I belive this country was born of the same " weekend warriors " who finally had enough of the Crowns bullshit those many years ago.
You either stand up for your beliefs, ( right or wrong ) or stand aside as those with power crush them for you.
The AR-15 is a semi-automatic version of the select-fire M16. In a prone position, and properly using your firearm, you should be able to qualify as at least a marksman at 500 yards. Competition uses these rifles - standard issue but I think they use hand-loaded rounds, to hit out to 600 yards. This is done without the use of optics. Optics can, in certain environments, slow the user down and that must also be taken into consideration.
That is not to say that you're wrong. It is just to state that I qualified above that level, at 500 yards, with the select fire version of this same firearm. It is also timed, you don't just get to sit there and wait for the wind to adjust.
Every single Marine, from accountant to cook, is first and foremost a rifleman. Even the lady Marines are rifleman. Each and every one of them qualifies, at 500 yards, at at least the marksman level. If they do not qualify, they are not Marines. This is not a basic entry point to joining the ranks as a Marine. It is THE entry point. Basic is tough, sure, but anyone can do that with a little bit of mental and physical discipline. However, every single Marine qualifies at 500 yards. Else they do not get to use the tile Marine.
The Army has a 300 yard qualification. The Navy has similar (though the Marines are a Department of the Navy). The Air Force gets to look at a rifle and be able to point out the business end. They practice with lawn darts. The 500 yard qualification, that's a long ways in case you're curious, is mandatory and there is no Marine who has not demonstrated their ability to do so. Regardless of your school (MOS), you will be a rifleman. Your gender is not important nor is your job. You will be a rifleman and demonstrate proficiency with your rifle. You do not get optics to make your qualifying shots.
How do you shoot a target that is 1500 feet away and looks smaller than the site itself? Lots of practice and knowing your rifle and maintaining your rifle.
If you're curious about what it is that all Marines have in common - that's it. Every Marine is first and foremost a rifleman. That means, as I said, that you can hit an object 500 yards away. In other words, this is standard practice. However, it is the tradition of the Corps that each and every Marine is trained as a rifleman. You might be vaguely familiar with it as the Rifleman's Creed. Every Marine is intimately familiar with this. You know it as something that begins with this:
"This is my rifle. There are many like it but this one is mine."
It goes on. I could type it for you but you can just as easily Google it now that you're aware of the name. The difference between the rifle that I was issued and an AR-15 is that the selector switch (and internals) has four positions on an M16. Those positions are Safe, Single, Burst, and Automatic. Safe means that when you put your booger hook on the bang-bang switch nothing should happen. Do not rely on this. The safety is in between your ears. Keep your booger hook off bang-bang switch until you're ready to fire. Single means just that. When you squeeze (you do not pull) the trigger AND hold it, a single round is fired. Each successive round will require an additional pull of the trigger to make it go boom. Burst means that a single pull and holding of the trigger will discharge three rounds and only three rounds. If you want to make it boom three more times, pull it again. Automatic (also known as awesome) means you unleash holy hell when you pull and hold the trigger. Pressing and holding the bang-bang switch means that it keeps going bang until the magazine is empty.
(It is a magazine, not a clip. There are clips. The M16 does not use a clip, the cartridges are contained in a magazine. Those aren't bullets, in case you're curious. Bullets are the things that go in the direction the barrel is pointed when you pull the bang-bang switch. When they go bang, they spit out a casing. By work of pure magic, this cycles and the little genie inside slides a new cartridge into place - that enables
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
Yet USMC recruits qualify with the M16 at 500 yds with iron sights.
Well, that would have saved me some time and effort. I gotta learn to scroll down before typing out my novellas.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
The good thing is that, should things go the way of Syria, you'll have a reliable firearm. I own an absolutely retarded number of firearms - as in a whole slew of 'em, I could outfit this entire thread - probably multiple times. I'm an avid collector but, not by any means, an expert in all things firearm related.
However, the AK-style weapons are good options at fine prices. I have an actual classed (and lawfully owned) AK-47. Well, technically it is the Chinese M-22. It's a fine firearm. It's reliable, accurate enough for its purposes, and was (at one time) inexpensive. I have made zero modifications to it nor will I. Can I hit a target, from a prone position, out at 500 yards? Err... Probably not. I'd think an effective firing range would be 200 yards, standing. I might push it out to 300 in prone or kneeling positions. I could probably hit the target at 500 yards, just not reliably. It just doesn't have the tolerances for that.
So, I think you've won a fine rifle. I'm not that prejudiced. I'll buy two of each and let a friend use one. I even own not one, but two, Jennings. Oh, I don't fire them. They might only be a .22 LR but I'm more afraid of them falling apart in my hands and hurting me than I am of hurting anyone that they are vaguely pointed at. I have fired them. I put some sub-sonics through one of them once - still cycled fine most of the time. I've only fired the other one once - for a magazine's worth of "snake" shot. They're .22 LR that's got shot shells and really tiny shot in them. I was able to hit a soda can at about 20' so it was marginally better than I expected. The first one, I've fired that a few times, and you're lucky to hit a soda can at 20' with regular ammo. No amount of adjusting seemed to help matters any.
Sadly, I know a lady who swears by hers. I've never seen her fire it and I hope I never do. I've offered to GIVE her something better - I even offered a nice Ruger. Nope... She swears by her Jennings. It is a .25 or .32 (I don't remember which) and I hope her life never depends on it if the attacker is more than a few feet away.
At any rate, for what they are, the AK is a fine weapon and anyone who suggests otherwise is probably not qualified to opine on the subject. Note: I did not say the best or even the best for certain circumstances. They're reliable, fire an adequate round, accurate enough, and reasonably priced. They're not just a "fine for what they are." They're fine. I'd never scoff at one or mock someone for owning one. I'd use one to defend myself if I needed to. I'd even elect to use one over many other firearms.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
Meh, if you want to go all in, and don't live in California, you can actually buy a Barrett, chambered in .50, and then ensure you get great optics and learn to actually use it. (The key point is the end of that sentence but I suspect you know that.)
Now, it is absolutely insane to buy one UNLESS you've got a few dollars. I have a few dollars. ;-)
I've seen them at kinda reasonable prices on the used market. They're not at shows. You need to find someone who has a lot of money and bought one thinking that they were going to be a sniper. Three things seem to happen... They realize the price to shoot one makes them even more insane to own. They realize that they have no idea how to operate one and improper operation actually hurts. They realize that they're huge and you need to maintain them properly which is a hole lot like work when you've just gone out and put a box of rounds through it.
Oh, and plan on lots and lots of ammunition so that you can actually get to the point where you're accurate with one. And ensure you get the bipod... They are heavy and you don't just stand up and fire them. At least I haven't nor have I actually let anyone do so. They will hurt you. They will break your collarbone. They are every bit as awesome as you might imagine. We have a "machine gun shoot" where the profits go to vets with PTSD and vets shoot free. That's one of the ones that I bring with me and no - not everyone gets to fire it, even seated, prone, bipod, or whatnot. No, it's not funny to have your 110 lb girlfriend fire it and hurt herself. No, your 9 year old son is not going to "be a man" and fire it. It will hurt you - at either end.
Also, there's a time and a place for a .50. A pistol is probably not one of those times. I do not own, nor will I ever probably buy, a Desert Eagle. I suppose they look good in movies. I can not imagine a time and place where that actually makes a good choice for your weapon. I guess, if you have absolutely nothing else... Even then, you might just want to point it at them or hit them with it. I've a friend who bought one but he bought it knowing that it was stupid to do so. They are not even all that much fun to fire. They're too big for my hands to hold comfortably.
I should add, it does not help matters one bit that I have a friend of mine who retired to Maine before I did. He was a gunsmith and owned his own store. He still does some business but is not an open store and is nominally retired. He's been getting rid of his collection, for years now, to help fund his retirement. *sighs* I have picked up a LOT of stray firearms that needed a good home and someone to care for them. It really is ridiculous. I can honestly say that I own more firearms than I should. :/
I'll probably buy more.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
You really have to consider that a protest is not a military operation. Using unsecure public frequency Baofeng radios is quite legal. Using encrypted equipment without a FCC license is NOT legal.
Again, the protest in Oregon was not a military operation but a protest by ranchers that some of the more clueless of the media keep trying to make a militia attack.
NRRPT/RCT