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Ask Slashdot: Fixing UVC Camera Issues Under Windows?

Posted by timothy on from the you-get-to-keep-both-pieces dept.

Khyber writes: I bought some cheap Chinese camera glasses with built-in microphones. These are (supposedly) UVC cameras manufactured in 2015. Under Windows XP, these cameras are seen perfectly fine and work as web cameras; even the microphones work. Under Windows 7, the camera appears to install just fine, however I get the 'This device can perform faster if you connect to USB 2.0' (which it is connected to) and when I try to load it up with any camera viewer such as manycam or any chat program's built-in previewer, I cannot receive any video from the camera. I can get audio from the camera microphones under Windows 7, so I am wondering if the camera device is having problems enumerating as a USB 2.0 device due to some change in Windows 7 (which it doesn't seem to have issues doing under XP,) or if the UVC driver for Windows 7 is missing something in comparison to the one used for Windows XP. Anybody else had issues getting newer UVC cameras to work in newer operating systems?

148 comments

  1. Since when has /. become tech support? by jfdavis668 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I don't think that technical support for your driver issue is a good reason to post on /.

    1. Re:Since when has /. become tech support? by gstoddart · · Score: 2

      While we're at it, my printer sharing seems to not be working properly.

      Which is this, "my crappy vendor has no current drivers", or "Microsoft hasn't written a driver for my crappy camera glasses"?

      Definitely a big "WTF" on that one.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    2. Re:Since when has /. become tech support? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      obligatory T Shirt

    3. Re:Since when has /. become tech support? by msauve · · Score: 2

      Apparently, timothy also has a pair of those glasses.

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    4. Re:Since when has /. become tech support? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you sure? Maybe he's found a use for what's left of Slashdot.

      The days of being a tech site with smart comments are long gone. The new owner can aim for the low bar of being better than Yahoo Answers.

    5. Re:Since when has /. become tech support? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Here we go with the blame-Microsoft bitch fest. Might as well get that in. We already got the "Beat our dicks off to Elon Musk" story in for the day. Next up: Graphene.

    6. Re:Since when has /. become tech support? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Clearly, Timothy has been given the farewell speech or he no longer cares.

      This now has to be a shared account with random people using it to post. This way they don't have to worry about building trust with a moderator.

      The joke is on them... he spent that shit years ago.

    7. Re:Since when has /. become tech support? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The days of being a tech site with smart comments are long gone.

      The same can be said for the vast majority of the Internet. There are more people and (most importantly) exponentially more websites on the Internet now than in 1997. Lots of people with a tech or geeky bent have been scattered to the four winds or driven from the traditional Web completely. Yeah, they might maintain a twitter, Facebook, or Google+ account, but those aren't really great places for discussion, and they're mostly drowned out by the non-techy crowd anyway.

    8. Re:Since when has /. become tech support? by U2xhc2hkb3QgU3Vja3M · · Score: 1

      Well, they work under Windows XP (very old) but don't work under Windows 7 (much newer than XP). So it used to work on a Microsoft product and now it doesn't work anymore. I don't see why he can't blame Microsoft.

    9. Re:Since when has /. become tech support? by aaron4801 · · Score: 2

      Timothy's getting delirious after not sleeping for a week.

    10. Re:Since when has /. become tech support? by mandark1967 · · Score: 1

      obligatory link to my previous experiences with ThinkGeek shirts

      http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

      --
      Sig Follows: "Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." -- Mark Twain
    11. Re:Since when has /. become tech support? by Khyber · · Score: 4, Informative

      You must be new here. :)

      Anyways, this is not a driver issue, per se. I believe this is a Windows issue. I have seen reprts of other UVC devices in laptops (their built-in webcams) having the exact same issue.

      Turns out, those devices are UVC 1.0, and Microsoft, in their infinite wisdom, changed something in their newer USB Video Camera driver that breaks devices following the UVC 1.0 spec, despite Microsoft claiming that Windows 7 has full support for UVC 1.0 devices.

      For those people with laptop issues, usually they could fix it by finding the (semi-rare) updated driver from the manufacturer website.

      This manufacturer has no driver. It is a claimed plug and play. And funnily enough, it works under Linux and OSX 10.4+ as advertised!

      This is what leads me to believe that this is not a driver issue on my end, but a MS driver issue.

      And I really, REALLY don't feel like having to constantly run in Test Mode to run a modified driver that's protected by WFP.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    12. Re:Since when has /. become tech support? by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      If the title was "How I diagnosed and fixed an obscure UVC camera issue" then it would be appropriate for slashdot.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    13. Re:Since when has /. become tech support? by Khyber · · Score: 1

      Also, these glasses were manufactured in 2015. You would expect the opposite - that they'd work with 7, and not XP. That they work with XP hints at UVC 1.0 support being subtly broken somehow between XP and 7, since UVC is a Microsoft thing.

      I also think UVC 1.0 support got broken somewhere, as 7 sees the device exactly as it should except for claiming it's not on a USB 2.0 port. USB Mass storage works, and when you switch over to camera mode, it does see the camera and microphone, the microphone works, but the video feed does not.

      So that leads me to think that something went wonky in the usbvideo.sys or usbvideo.pnf file, or perhaps both.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    14. Re:Since when has /. become tech support? by citylivin · · Score: 1

      Looks like you are the poster. Sounds like you know a ton about it and still you are wasting slashdots time with your stupid tech support problem.

      Why dont you post your question to /r/techsupport? Even if I had the answer I wouldn't give it to you because the last thing I would want is for every idiot with a driver problem getting their own "ask slashdot". Sure. ask slashdots are normally stupid, but yours is particularly stupid, and can only really apply to your specific circumstances and so is not interesting in the slightest. You either find the correct driver, or have to use an OLD OS. Maybe if you were really 133t you could reverse engineer something and at least make an interesting deconstruction of the equipment on your journey. But you aren't 133t, you are the same as every other luser who can't find a driver on the internet.

      My response would be, who cares. Who cares that you wasted money on some cheap chinese crap and it doesnt work in windows 7. Cool story bro, except its not even a cool story.

      bixe is ruining this place already!!!

      --
      As a potential lottery winner, I totally support tax cuts for the wealthy
    15. Re:Since when has /. become tech support? by jtara · · Score: 2

      Did somebody wander in here thinking it was StackOverflow?

      Or did they already try over there and have "discussion closed" for any of a number of picayune reasons?

    16. Re:Since when has /. become tech support? by Khyber · · Score: 1

      You never know, such a story might come out of this very conversation IF PEOPLE WOULD STAY ON FUCKING TOPIC (I know, this is /.) and not bitch.

      Then Slashdot could possibly start becoming the tech hub it used to be - because people with actual knowledge used to be seen collaborating on this site, fixing weird issues like this, providing answers that are actually useful, discussing the deeper inherent issues of such things, instead of griping. Much like /. used to try to do, in the late 90s after it ceased being primarily some geek's blog, and before it sold out the first time.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    17. Re:Since when has /. become tech support? by Khyber · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "Why dont you post your question to /r/techsupport?"

      Because Reddit is a circlejerk shithouse reminiscent of most Linux 'help' forums?

      Because unlike Reddit, I atually expect /. people of my UID or lower to likely have the obviously low-level knowledge required, whereas the majority of Reddit users regurgitate things without bothering to think critically?

      Because Reddit is a shithole that went SJW?

      Need more reasons?

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    18. Re:Since when has /. become tech support? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Which is this, "my crappy vendor has no current drivers", or "Microsoft hasn't written a driver for my crappy camera glasses"?
      Definitely a big "WTF" on that one.

      Uhhh... You do know that UVC is where you're not supposed to need a special driver for your webcam, right? Where anyone who's claiming full USB support is supposed to have a driver for those crappy camera glasses, and my very cheapest yard sale webcam, and many other devices besides?

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    19. Re: Since when has /. become tech support? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      News for fucking mooks, Free tech support.

    20. Re:Since when has /. become tech support? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where's the question in that?

    21. Re:Since when has /. become tech support? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apart from being 32 bit XP is simply better than 7. 7's interface is a piece of shit compared to XP.

    22. Re:Since when has /. become tech support? by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      Wow, you mean a cheap product someone bought off the interwebs doesn't adhere to a spec, or Microsoft has decided not to implement the standard?

      I'm shocked, shocked I tell 'ya ... nobody ever doesn't adhere to a standard. Because they're magic!!

      Sorry, ever since there were "Windows Modems", or any "standard" to ignore, people have been doing this shit. Most especially Microsoft and cheapo devices.

      "Supposed to" my ass. Companies have been doing a terrible job of implementing standards since forever. I've long since stopped acting shocked when it happens.

      One of two entities got lazy/cheap/sloppy here, and I'll plausibly believe either of them.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    23. Re:Since when has /. become tech support? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Wow, you mean a cheap product someone bought off the interwebs doesn't adhere to a spec, or Microsoft has decided not to implement the standard?

      If you skim the thread, it works on x32, and not on x64. Did they decide, or just fail?

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    24. Re:Since when has /. become tech support? by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      Does it matter? Someone failed to, or didn't bother doing some aspect of this ... we should be surprised at this why?

      At this point, I pretty much expect products are taking shortcuts and being pushed to market in a half assed way.

      Because that's how products are done these days; everything is apparently a continuous beta intended to be fixed later (if at all) but sold now. And as often as not, once they have the money, they immediately stop caring about any issues with it.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    25. Re:Since when has /. become tech support? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      At this point, I pretty much expect products are taking shortcuts and being pushed to market in a half assed way.

      That's always been true. Most things have always sucked. Especially if they say "Microsoft" on them.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    26. Re:Since when has /. become tech support? by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      Hence, my original post. ;-)

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    27. Re:Since when has /. become tech support? by Coren22 · · Score: 2

      My guess is that there is an embedded USB hub somewhere in the device which is USB1.1, XP ignores that and allows the traffic to go through, while 7 is throwing an error because the camera expects a USB2.0 path, which it apparently isn't getting. Without a link to what device it is though, I have no way to be able to troubleshoot.

      I would call the tech support for the glasses, but likely, as they are cheap chinese knockoffs, the poster got what they paid for.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    28. Re:Since when has /. become tech support? by SQLGuru · · Score: 1

      So, Microsoft is expected to make everything that worked on Windows 3.1 continue to work on any and all future versions of their OS and gets blasted when they don't, but Apple gets a free pass any time they EOL support for anything.

      I wonder if the OP tried something similar to this: http://answers.microsoft.com/e...

    29. Re:Since when has /. become tech support? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      whereas the majority of Reddit users regurgitate things without bothering to think critically?

      How ironic, given that there's tons of actually useful subreddits with a marked lack of the shittiness you deride. Then again, don't let the truth derail your bias.

  2. Device compatability / driver problems ... by Alain+Williams · · Score: 4, Funny

    You must be running Linux, why don't you just be safe and come back to Microsoft, all hardware vendors make sure that their kit works with Microsoft Windows. Oh, wait .....

    1. Re:Device compatability / driver problems ... by Anon-Admin · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Ok, I laughed at this one.

      Because I have that same camera and it works perfect under Linux. LOL

    2. Re:Device compatability / driver problems ... by CastrTroy · · Score: 2

      I have a scanner that I recently needed to get working again. It's a 15 year old scanner. First step I tried just plugging it in to my Windows 10 machine. It didn't work. Wasn't much surprised there. Then I remembered that I used to have it working on Linux. So I booted up a virtual machine with Ubuntu. The scanner was detected but trying to scan an image with XSane just caused it to crash. I might possibly be able to get it working, but didn't want to spend too much time messing around with it. I installed Windows XP in a different VM, and installed the drivers from the manufacturer's site. Everything worked perfectly. I don't think that Linux is any better than windows for keeping old hardware working. Some stuff will only work in Windows, and some stuff will only work in Linux. I'm pretty sure there's nobody testing old scanners every time they update the kernel or make changes to SANE. Sometimes you just have to run the same old software stack that you were running 15 years ago to get things working properly.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    3. Re:Device compatability / driver problems ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Same here. I also have an old scanner and a USB microscope that Windows shits on when trying to find drivers. Plug them into Linux and they work. Same with some steam games, windows BSODs with WHEA error and reboots. Run them on the Linux steam client and they run all day at full settings. The worst I had to do with hardware/peripherals on Linux was to search google, someone has already figured out a solution. Windows just sucks.

    4. Re:Device compatability / driver problems ... by Junta · · Score: 4, Interesting

      There's a crapton of stuff that works only well under Linux out of the box now.

      In our lab, there are like a bucket of USB serial adapters. All of them work with every linux device. But almost none of them work well with windows.

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
    5. Re:Device compatability / driver problems ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      So there is the solution for using these devices with a modern operating system - switch to linux.
      Apparently, windows support doesn't last. Works in one version, not in the next. Weird, but it is their choice. Linux made a different choice.

    6. Re:Device compatability / driver problems ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Same here. I also have an old scanner and a USB microscope that Windows shits on when trying to find drivers. Plug them into Linux and they work. Same with some steam games, windows BSODs with WHEA error and reboots. Run them on the Linux steam client and they run all day at full settings. The worst I had to do with hardware/peripherals on Linux was to search google, someone has already figured out a solution. Windows just sucks.

      Windows doesn't suck you just need to:-

      • Upgrade to Windows 10
      • Use UAC half a dozen times
      • Reboot
      • Understand that their are a small number of device IDs available (for your convenience of course)
      • Recognise that device IDs are incrementally allocated and transient
      • Buy some more recent hardware
    7. Re:Device compatability / driver problems ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's because Linux hasn't actually advanced in the last 20 years.

      OH SNAP.

    8. Re:Device compatability / driver problems ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have a scanner that I recently needed to get working again. It's a 15 year old scanner. First step I tried just plugging it in to my Windows 10 machine. It didn't work. Wasn't much surprised there. Then I remembered that I used to have it working on Linux. So I booted up a virtual machine with Ubuntu. The scanner was detected but trying to scan an image with XSane just caused it to crash. I might possibly be able to get it working, but didn't want to spend too much time messing around with it. I installed Windows XP in a different VM, and installed the drivers from the manufacturer's site. Everything worked perfectly. I don't think that Linux is any better than windows for keeping old hardware working. Some stuff will only work in Windows, and some stuff will only work in Linux. I'm pretty sure there's nobody testing old scanners every time they update the kernel or make changes to SANE. Sometimes you just have to run the same old software stack that you were running 15 years ago to get things working properly.

      VueScan from https://www.hamrick.com/

      OK, it costs money but I'm using my Canoscan FB630U with Win10

    9. Re:Device compatability / driver problems ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have a scanner that is less then ten years old, it does not have a driver for Windows Vista or any later version of Windows as HP (iirc) does not want to support it at all (there is a program that runs under Windows that apparently supports it but I refuse to pay $60 to license a program that I will use once every year or two). Linux (I think it is Fedora that I have on my USB key) supports it out of the box with no setup other then launching the scanning program.

    10. Re:Device compatability / driver problems ... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      It's hilarious that you mention scanners because basically every scanner I have ever owned (except the first one, and one other... out of about a dozen) has been used. In the only two cases in which I know of why they became available to be, it was because the user had upgraded to a newer version of Windows and the scanner manufacturer no longer provided a driver. In several cases, these were HP scanners which (having checked into the details via the SANE supported list) actually used the same protocols as scanners which were still supported. Scanners are the absolutely best example of Linux having better support than Windows, because the manufacturers deliberately drop support for scanners that their driver could support, if only they wanted it to.

      This doesn't mean that every device will work with Linux, but it does mean that you've got a much better shot of it continuing to work with Linux, your anecdote aside. (Mine is only relevant because it led me to the relevant research.)

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    11. Re:Device compatability / driver problems ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Indeed, except things that matter like video cards, printers, and scanners where on Linux there are either performance problems or missing features. But yeah, you can slap in and old ISA modem and it works. Yay Linux!

    12. Re:Device compatability / driver problems ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did yor neck break?

    13. Re:Device compatability / driver problems ... by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      You should get one branded FTDI. They are really cheap from Chinese eBay sellers. Even better the company keeps its windows driver up to date with windows update.

    14. Re:Device compatability / driver problems ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't be a LOL-tard, it's unbecoming.

      Save it for iam12yearsold.slashdot.org where that crap belongs.

      Your cooperation is greatly appreciated.

    15. Re:Device compatability / driver problems ... by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I ran into that when looking for drivers. The problem is is that the software is $40 (currently there's a sale) and I could probably go purchase a current model scanner for close to the same price. That might be a good idea for somebody who has a bunch of old scanners that they want to keep working but isn't a good value for me who only uses the scanner once every year or so.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    16. Re:Device compatability / driver problems ... by Coren22 · · Score: 2

      Nice joke.

      For those who maybe miss the reference:
      http://slashdot.org/index2.pl?...

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  3. The new improved Slashdot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Now with more tech support!

  4. Slashdot? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Since when did slashdot become a desktop support forum?

  5. Welp... by Lab+Rat+Jason · · Score: 3, Insightful

    cheap Chinese

    there's your problem...

    --
    Which has more power: the hammer, or the anvil?
    1. Re:Welp... by U2xhc2hkb3QgU3Vja3M · · Score: 1

      As opposed to what, expensive Chinese hardware?

    2. Re:Welp... by Khyber · · Score: 2

      Actually, now that I double-checked the company - it's a USA company and has been around since 2003.

      So no, not cheap Chinese crap. Cheap American crap.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    3. Re:Welp... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      cheap Chinese

      there's your problem...

      That they are cheap but not easy?

    4. Re:Welp... by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      Why not spit the model and manufacture out? The answer might be something unique to that model. This could be something as simple as a codec package to support H.264 or some USB video class extension which would require vidcap.h so it would need either a driver from the manufacturer or the Windows SDK installed.

    5. Re:Welp... by Khyber · · Score: 1

      Manufacture? ExcelVan. Model? No fucking clue.

      "This could be something as simple as a codec package to support H.264"

      Not being a UVC 1.0 device, no. That's MPEG/MJPEG. UVC 1.0 has no h.264 support.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    6. Re:Welp... by ThatsNotPudding · · Score: 1

      cheap Chinese

      there's your problem...

      Exactly. What he needs is Expensive Chinese (one with a well-known US name on the badge).

    7. Re:Welp... by sumdumass · · Score: 2

      It's almost as if you are saying the car doesn't start and when asked for details you insist it is red and other red cars start. Either way, it is likely a codec issue or you need a driver.

      But first, the UVC version doesn't necessarily limit the use of H.264 or any other codec. The class extension can enable the support and i picked the h.264 as an example not a diagnostic. It could be any native compression in the hardware and i will have very little clue without knowing manufacturer or model.

      Now on to some more promising news. I did see mention of the storm codec in the player support section of several camers offered by this company. The storm codec is a codec package not a player so it almost screams to me install that. Just find a clean version without a bunch of crap with a downloader.

      Now to the next step. A lot of these devices are basically rebranded with small changes and sometimes no changes at all. I saw a brand that looks similar to one of the excelvan models and it requires a driver. Now needing a driver doesn't mean it is not UVC standards compliant as you still can need a driver for the extension to the spec if implemented. Baring that, you can use graphedit, KsStudio, and USBEdit to see what is happening. Might be something as simple as a dodgy cable too. But in my experience, audio with no video tends to be codec related.

    8. Re:Welp... by Coren22 · · Score: 2

      http://www.amazon.com/Excelvan...

      My assumption is that there is a USB1.1 hub built into the glasses, XP doesn't care, but 7 detects it and prevents features from working. Poor design is likely the issue, not actually Windows.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    9. Re:Welp... by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      If you scroll down to the lower description, it lists "storm codec " under player. Interestingly, the storm codec is a codec package and when 64 bit Windows became available, codecs had issues (the 32bit versions didn't play well in the 64bit version ).

      I would give that a serious consideration. I think your usb error might be ancillary to this.

    10. Re:Welp... by Khyber · · Score: 1

      There is no USB 1.1 hub as the device transfers files at USB 2.0 speed. Only when switching to camera mode does the device throw up the "This device can perform faster if you connect it to a USB 2.0 port."

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    11. Re:Welp... by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      Inside the device, there could be a hub connected inside the camera to allow the microphone and camera to work, and the storage device could be on a different hub, or even directly connected.

      Go to device manager, view, devices by connection.
      Expand out ACPI... (usually), and expand out until you find the USB stuff, and expand those all the way out, then connect the glasses, check how many devices it adds, and how they are wired up.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  6. USB 3.0 chipset, 2.0-only cable/connector by Todd+Knarr · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I've gotten this a lot with devices besides cameras (eg. an LG G3 phone), even when plugged into a 3.0 port. It seems to be caused only by devices with a standard micro-USB connector, not a full-sized one. My thought is that the device's USB chip is 3.0-capable, but the connector and/or cable don't have the extra pins/wires for 3.0 so the device is reporting itself as 3.0 but can only run as 2.0 which makes Windows complain. I haven't seen any problems because of it, even under Windows (I normally connect the devices to Linux machines).

    1. Re:USB 3.0 chipset, 2.0-only cable/connector by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      He's getting the "USB 2.0 device plugged into USB 1.1 port" message, not the "3.0 device plugged into 2.0 port" message.

    2. Re:USB 3.0 chipset, 2.0-only cable/connector by denis-The-menace · · Score: 2

      So the solution is to get a USB 2.0 ONLY add-in card.

      Or a USB 2.0 ONLY hub.

      --
      Obama's legacy: (N)othing (S)ecure (A)nywhere and (T)error (S)imulation (A)dministration
    3. Re:USB 3.0 chipset, 2.0-only cable/connector by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      This is almost certainly the OPs problem. On XP the timing requirements for USB 2.0 devices were a bit more relaxed and out of spec devices worked. USB 3.0 drivers are even stricter.

      I can only suggest trying a few USB 2 cards, but it's a long shot.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  7. Have you tried turning it off and on again? by celeb8 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    yes this forum is totally windows tech support I just hope your post feels welcome

    1. Re:Have you tried turning it off and on again? by Khyber · · Score: 1

      Actually, turning it on and off again because of USB enumeration issues was one method of fixing UVC camera issues that was mentioned in my searches for the cause of the issue.

      Sadly, it did not work.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    2. Re:Have you tried turning it off and on again? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Biggest. Megawhoooosh. Ever.

  8. Obligatory new low for Slashdot comment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    User wants help with cheap USB camera off ebay, only works in Microsoft Windows XP. Results in a wordy plea for tech support. This must be a new low.

    1. Re: Obligatory new low for Slashdot comment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, a new low would be a 5000 word essay from B. H. describing his proposed method for maintaining device compatibility while ensuring the ice lines at Burning Man move smoothly.

  9. compatibility mode by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    have you tried running the consumption (camera) apps in XP compatibility mode?

    1. Re:compatibility mode by wjcofkc · · Score: 1

      Not helping.

      --
      Brought to you by Carl's Junior.
    2. Re:compatibility mode by Khyber · · Score: 3

      There are no consumption applications for the camera. If there were, I'd have mentioned trying them and them not working.

      Don't you find it the least fucking bit odd that a camera made in 2015 will work with XP, works under Linux, Even works in OSX 10.4 or higher (I checked) yet it won't work in Windows 7?

      I suspect the UVC driver has changed between XP and 7.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    3. Re: compatibility mode by jofas · · Score: 0

      Don't shit where you eat.

    4. Re:compatibility mode by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are no consumption applications for the camera. If there were, I'd have mentioned trying them and them not working.

      Don't you find it the least fucking bit odd that a camera made in 2015 will work with XP, works under Linux, Even works in OSX 10.4 or higher (I checked) yet it won't work in Windows 7?

      I suspect the UVC driver has changed between XP and 7.

      You said they were cheap. So why would compatibility issues be odd? Does the manufacturer claim to support Windows 7?

    5. Re:compatibility mode by Khyber · · Score: 1

      Yes, they do claim to support 7.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    6. Re:compatibility mode by vtcodger · · Score: 1

      > Don't you find it the least fucking bit odd that a camera made in 2015 will work with XP, works under Linux, Even works in OSX 10.4 or higher (I checked) yet it won't work in Windows 7?

      After a decade plus of supporting Windows PCs, I ceased to find any Windows behavior odd. Windows is a humongous, amorphous, poorly documented, blob of code, trying to be all things to all people. I can't see any evidence that anybody inside or outside Microsoft understands it, and I can't think why anybody with a choice would voluntarily use it.

      But faced with the problem, I think I'd try a VM with Windows XP or Linux. Might work and if it doesn't the OP might learn something useful from the effort. If linux is tried, look at dmesg,lsusb.and the like. Maybe there will be a clue there.

      --
      You can't see ANYTHING from a car, You've got to get out of the goddamned contraption and walk...Edward Abbey
  10. OP is a LIAR. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Windows has 100% perfect driver support and supports all hardware ever made. You're not actually using Windows, you're using Linux, which can't even install a hard drive without recompiling the kernel.

  11. You need the right cable by OzPeter · · Score: 3, Funny

    Once you get the right cable you won't have to worry about your camera issues anymore!

    --
    I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
    1. Re:You need the right cable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wrong cable. One of these should take care of the problem.

  12. If you're looking for actual *assistance*... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You're probably going to have better luck at one of Reddit's tech support forums.

  13. huh? by truck_soccer · · Score: 1

    get the hardware id's from device manager, and check www.pcidatabase.com

  14. lsllll reference by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Now I sit here broken hearted
    came for an insightful comment,
    yet found only fartheads.

    and to remain true, hardware standards and software implementations, they're crappy. We do not live in a utopia, so people complain, and even less gets fixed so we have more to complain about.

    It would be nice if all the hardware that was sold came with the schematics, specifications and programming/interfacing documentation.
    That way the terrorists would be able to make their own nuclear veapons, and nuke us all from orbit, whilst sitting in their lunar base, sipping their earl-grey tea.

    have a nice day.
    ssssht!

  15. Kill yourself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You buy crap at el cheapo and then whine because they're not supported? Slash your wrists with a razor, stab your throat with a broken bottle, set yourself on fire, drink paraquat, just remove yourself from existence, you stupid shit.

  16. Ask Slashdot: How Can We Improve Slashdot? by abelenky17 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    By not posting stupid tech-support questions... some random guy's hare-brained scheme... or pseudo-science that isn't backed up by common sense.

  17. Wrong Cable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You need a the right usb cable.

    You will have to import the cable if you are not in the united states.

    http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/129399-meet-the-480-usb-cable-from-computer-audio-design-an-audiophile-s-dac-dream

  18. Hello Khyber by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Fuck you, Khyber. Fuck you very much. Go post your tech support requests somewhere else, douchebag.

  19. Solution: Stop using Windows by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Also, where did you get the idea that Slashdot was your personal tech support forum? Give us a valid credit card number and maybe we'll do something for you, buddy, otherwise suck it up and figure it out yourself like the rest of us do.

  20. Inexcusable (return them) by Billly+Gates · · Score: 2

    Dude in 2015 you bought a device that only works on an unsupported 15 year old obsolete and now dangerous OS for internet streaming??! Seriously

    If the camera was from the XP era I could understand. If you want to keep it then get an ancient XP box and DMZ the LAN behind a firewall to prevent internet access. But if you purchased this to use over the internet then the manufacturer gave you a shoddy and liable product that is negligent.

    --
    http://saveie6.com/
    1. Re:Inexcusable (return them) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dude in 2015 you bought a device that only works on an unsupported 15 year old obsolete and now dangerous OS for internet streaming??! Seriously

      If the camera was from the XP era I could understand. If you want to keep it then get an ancient XP box and DMZ the LAN behind a firewall to prevent internet access.

      Current Linux and Mac OS X are neither obsolete, nor dangerous, AFAIK. And it was repeatedly stated that the device works on these OSes. As for Windows XP, it's still surprisingly usable for Internet access, if you know how to use it properly (firewall, current browser, not run as admin).

    2. Re:Inexcusable (return them) by Khyber · · Score: 1

      Shit, I still run XP as admin, firewall off, older browser.

      Still hasn't been infected in over a decade.

      XP just fucking works.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    3. Re:Inexcusable (return them) by toddestan · · Score: 1

      Generally speaking, as long as you don't install Flash or Java, and stay away from IE (especially IE6 and IE7) you'll probably be okay. But why?

  21. Thank you for calling Slashdot tech support by wjcofkc · · Score: 1

    Actually no, not welcome. I'll bet there are some great Windows tech support related sites out there. Maybe start here:

    https://technet.microsoft.com/...

    Or more likely here:

    https://www.google.com/

    So there's your advice.

    I was going to take the opportunity to launch into a full tech-support monologue but it brought back too many old and bad memories.

    --
    Brought to you by Carl's Junior.
  22. Let me google that for you by dstyle5 · · Score: 2

    By using let me google that for you.

    http://lmgtfy.com/?q=let+me+google+that+for+you

    If that doesn't work maybe someone has a GeoCities site about this issue.

  23. Cockney Rhyming Slang by Harold+Halloway · · Score: 1

    In these parts, 'Khyber' is CRS for 'arse'. Also on /. it would seem.

  24. too many by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    use a usb hub with nothing else plugged into it

  25. Need tech support? Look here. by wjcofkc · · Score: 1

    Just ask this nice lady:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

    --
    Brought to you by Carl's Junior.
  26. Let me Google that for you. by Harold+Halloway · · Score: 1

    http://lmgtfy.com/?q=I+bought+...

  27. Inverse Shibboleet? by dlleigh · · Score: 1

    I wonder if there's an inverse version of shibboleet that would be helpful when newbies ask for support in knowledgeable forums.

    1. Re:Inverse Shibboleet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, you call them a noob or newb while giving them cryptic hints that are either clever pointers to the true solution or subtly mock the newb. Bonus points if you can do both in the same sentence.

      This works much better then shibboleet though.

  28. article missing link... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    to OP's POV porn site

  29. More info needed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Barring the argument that Slashdot is not your personal tech support site, there's literally nothing to go on in your description. What's the manufacturer and model of these cameras? Are you using the drivers provided by the manufacturer, or did you rely on plug 'n' pray to find a driver for you and just use whatever it found? Do other devices in that port function as expected (correct speed)?

    1. Re:More info needed by Khyber · · Score: 3, Informative

      " there's literally nothing to go on in your description"

      Incorrect. As stated, it is a UVC camera. That means it's a USB Video Camera universal device which means no drivers are required - it's the same standard that almost every single laptop webcamera uses and has used for a long time, even OSX and Linux support it.

      Then I provide information that it works under XP, and half works under 7. I describe what does and does not work (Everything works in XP, only the video feed does not work in 7.)

      Mentioning that it is a UVC camera, you would logically think to check for UVC versions, right? This is a UVC 1.0 camera.

      Going to the Microsoft site, it shows that UVC 1.0 is fully supported from 2000/XP on up including in Windows 10.

        Any other device plugged into that port operates at USB 2.0 speed. Same port under Windows XP sees the camera just fine. Under 7? It sees the camera, it simply refuses to acquire a video feed from it.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    2. Re:More info needed by Red+Herring · · Score: 3, Interesting

      OK, since you're asking Slashdot... how about posting the USB Device descriptors, along with the USB port debug information from windbg (!usb2tree)?

      --
      #include "standard_disclaimer.h"
    3. Re: More info needed by jofas · · Score: 0

      Are you missing the part where we ask you to a) try harder or b) get help from a tech support site? No one wants your bush-league "I can't figure out how to x" foolish questions. Get the hint.

    4. Re: More info needed by Khyber · · Score: 1

      Take your 7-digit nonsense outta here, sonny. This is real tech talk, because we're getting into actual subsystems, not simple drivers. Deuces!

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    5. Re: More info needed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Real tech talk? LOL

      Here is your problem: You bought cheap crap from china. I mean don't freak out about it, all of us have thrown a few dollars down the hole of cheap Chinese crap and gotten burned. You throw the crap away and buy something better. The hardware may be fine but I am guessing that looser tolerances let the shit work with xp but not 7/10. It could probably be fixed in the drivers if you wanted to fuck around with that, but honestly just go buy something that works. You will spend more time "fixing" the issue then its worth.

      Oh and go fuck yourself trying to pull UID like you are some hot shot. Does your dad know your using his account?

    6. Re: More info needed by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      Lol.. no your not.

      Your stuck on this being a UVC and not realizing the extendable format or codec requirements which could either require a driver or an SDK to be installed as well as a codec. Not knowing the brand and model is like saying my car won't drive and refusing to describe what it is actually doing because its on a road and cars drive on a road.

    7. Re: More info needed by Khyber · · Score: 1

      I love how your username continues to belie your ignorance.

      This is a UVC issue, period. Apparently you have no clue what UVC entails (codec support is AUTOMATICALLY BUILT-IN.)

      Specifically it's a difference between the UVC files usbvideo.sys/.inf/.pnf between 32-bit and 64-bit Windows 7.

      While you shoot off at the mouth, a real person with real knowledge isolated the issue immediately.

      Way to be useless, like most Linux support forums.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    8. Re: More info needed by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      You better check the spec again idiot. UVC certainly does allow it to extended and incorporate different codecs. And yes, a driver to enable the extendable units is still within the spec - at least with MS operating systems.

      It's funny, You come here crying that a cheap webcam kicked your ass and begging for help then pretend to know it all when someone offers assistance while you spout completely incorrect facts.

      Here , read all of this carefully before shoveling another falsehood out of your trap.

      https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-...

    9. Re: More info needed by Khyber · · Score: 1

      You failed to read your own link, right at the bottom.

      H.264 support - NOT AVAILABLE IN XP/VISTA/7. Midway down the page, bottom of the second chart.

      Try again when you can actually read and comprehend the source material you're trying to quote.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    10. Re: More info needed by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      And you have failed to read period. The reference to H.264 was nothing but an example illustrating you were not giving enough information. But if you look further down the page you will see the extension units reference. Here H.264 or any other codec can be implemented via plugins (most likely to direct show ).

      My god, its like you lost your wallet and refuse to look under the couch where it actually is because you want to think it is somewhere else. If you don't understand what is on that page, say something. But either listen to the replies and look under the couch or go look somewhere else. A damn webcam has taken you for a ride that you feel the need to beg others for the answer. At least pretend to listen instead of acting like you know it all. The fucking webcam proves you don't.

    11. Re: More info needed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are a dick

    12. Re: More info needed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is a real grown-up response. Did your mom help you with that or did you pull up your big boy pants all by yourself?

  30. Probably your drivers by SmaryJerry · · Score: 0

    If you didn't explicitly install USB 2.0 and 3.0 drivers from the CD that came with your motherboard, then windows 7 will recognize it is USB 2.0 and 3.0 but won't actually allow you to run it.

    1. Re:Probably your drivers by Khyber · · Score: 1

      Probably NOT my motherboard drivers as all other USB 2.0 devices enumerate properly as such on the exact same system under XP and 7.

      I suspect this is Microsoft's issue, not the camera maker.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    2. Re:Probably your drivers by Red+Herring · · Score: 1

      > as all other USB 2.0 devices enumerate properly as such on the exact same system under XP and 7

      and billions and billions of other USB devices work without problems on other systems, so the obvious conclusion is...

      > I suspect this is Microsoft's issue

      Yep. Probably. Couldn't be the device's fault.

      --
      #include "standard_disclaimer.h"
    3. Re:Probably your drivers by Khyber · · Score: 1

      Is entirely Microsoft's issue. UVC is a universal video standard. Or, not-so-universal. Turns out, it breaks somewhere between 32-bit and 64-bit Windows. The hardware works in its entirety in Windows XP, and 32-bit Windows 7. It will not work in 64-bit Windows. It will work in 64-bit OSX and various 64-bit Linux distros.

      Were this a hardware issue, it wouldn't work AT ALL. That it worked 100% in XP and only 66% (Microphone and USB Mass storage worked) in 64-bit 7 indicates that it's not the hardware itself.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
  31. Similar issue... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Can anyone help me get this WinModem working under linux?

    1. Re:Similar issue... by Khyber · · Score: 1

      You don't know the Modem AT commands by heart? Who needs drivers when you can talk directly to the hardware, like one would do in DOS?

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    2. Re:Similar issue... by omnichad · · Score: 1

      You can't talk to a Winmodem with AT commands - it's basically just a DAC/DSP where the driver itself implements all the modulating, and demodulating. The hardware can basically just open or close the PSTN connection and make/receive sounds. Everything else is software.

  32. Windows 7 32bit? by Blaskowicz · · Score: 1

    32bit Windows version might have a bit better luck, you might try running an XP driver under 7 32bit although playing with the USB stack or an on-board USB controller in that way may be ugly or bork things horribly.

  33. Maybe you need to upgrade by Barlo_Mung_42 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Windows 10 probably fixes this.
    I'd just go ahead and upgrade if I were you.
    Couldn't hurt...

    1. Re:Maybe you need to upgrade by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wish I could mod this funny.

    2. Re:Maybe you need to upgrade by Barlo_Mung_42 · · Score: 1

      I really tried to ride that fine line where people couldn't tell if I was being serious or not.
      Feeling that it went pretty well.

    3. Re:Maybe you need to upgrade by Khyber · · Score: 1

      Guess what?

      32-bit Win10, works flawlessly.
      64-bit Win10, 66% functional (mass storage and microphone work.)

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
  34. New low. by grub · · Score: 1


    I went back through the archives to read Roland Piquepalle's last 50 posts to cleanse my brain from this level of Zika virus induced retardedness.

    --
    Trolling is a art,
    1. Re:New low. by Khyber · · Score: 1

      So, you just admitted that you couldn't understand an implied low-level technical question for what is likely involving one of the lower-level Windows subsystems (and not a driver issue) and had to read RP garbage to clean it out?

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    2. Re:New low. by grub · · Score: 1

      Understood but still retarded.

      --
      Trolling is a art,
  35. hub power by ihtoit · · Score: 1

    I've had similar issues with flash drives. I'm one of those nerds who like to load external hubs with older flash drives and thrash them until they die. Thing is, they all need power. USB2 spec is 0.5A per port, but if you're running a passive hub off one port, each port on that hub has to share the power available. Eight hub ports splitting that half an amp can get a bit tricky, especially on USB2. Usually what happens is it hits a low threshold and drops to USB1.1 which requires less power to run.

    On the same subject, Win7 seems to be a bit broken when it comes to USB power management (device sleep/standby), I have external hard drives randomly go into standby mode (it's irregular and unpredictable) which occasionally results in bugchecks.

    --
    Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
  36. Re:Device compatability / driver problems ...FTFY by zlives · · Score: 1

    Windows doesn't suck you, but it does me

  37. It should work under 32 bit... by Grog6 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    ...and will fail 64 bit versions.

    I have a couple of older video capture card that won't work under 64 bit, either xp or 7.

    Both work fine in 32 bit.

    The only other thing I could suggest is a utility to switch the usb mode, or force a different speed.

    Making a custom Linux or XP virtual session might be easier to do.
    Good luck!

    --
    Truth isn't Truth - Guliani
    1. Re:It should work under 32 bit... by Khyber · · Score: 1

      Attempting this in a 32-bit Windows 7 environment was not something I had considered. I happen to have a 32-bit machine right here, I'll get 32-bit 7 installed and I will report back.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    2. Re:It should work under 32 bit... by Khyber · · Score: 1

      Your suggestion is 100% correct. I installed 32-bit 7 and the camera worked off the bat.

      Now, to find out why 64-bit 7 A. throws the "This device will perform faster if you connect it to a USB 2.0 port" error and B. does not get video yet gets audio just fine and then see if C. I can rig a driver hack to fix it and get it past WFP.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
  38. Have you tried by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    turning it off and on again?

  39. Side note: Whomever edited the submission by Khyber · · Score: 1

    You actually did a decent job. I hadn't had much coffee when I wrote that.

    --
    Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
  40. UPDATE: /. poster has the correct answer! by Khyber · · Score: 2

    User Grog6 noted that it would likely work in 32-bit Windows 7 and fail to work entirely under 64-bit Windows 7.

    This ends up being correct. There is something off between the 32-bit and 64-bit usbvideo files that makes this particular set of camera glasses not function 100% under 64-bit Windows.

    Now for the fun part: figuring out whether or not the difference is so drastic that I can't hack in the missing code, and whether or not I can fake the Microsoft driver signature so WFP doesn't flip its lid (and I'm not going to turn WFP off, sorry!)

    --
    Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
  41. Microsoft has forums by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Maybe you should upgrade to Windows 10.

  42. VFW Driver models by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    XP camera drivers are typically VFW (Video for Windows) based, meaning that the camera talks directly to the video for windows interface. Later camera drivers typically piggyback on the Directshow interface and offer input pins which are configured from within the Source and Format dialogs. One single Directshow interface typically talks to the VFW interface.

    If your Directshow drivers aren't behaving, look at the Format and Source dialogs and see about setting the resolution and bit format to something widely compatible (ie: 320x240, RGB24).

    If that doesn't work, download a VFW driver like ManyCam and let it figure out the best settings.

    Source: I'm an ex-VFW dev.

    1. Re:VFW Driver models by Khyber · · Score: 1

      "XP camera drivers are typically VFW (Video for Windows) based"

      Microsoft has utilized UVC since oh 98/Millennium. Only companies trying proprietary crap tied into their software used VFW.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
  43. Have you tried... by RealGene · · Score: 1

    ..not buying Chinese crapware?

    --
    Mission: To provide products that consume time and energy as entertainingly as permitted by the laws of thermodynamics.
  44. what to do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It is funny if it was any other OS, we would not be having this talk.
    Than there are the idiots that will defend the OS for dropping any legacy drivers.
    That is why I will just say move on to another OS.
    But since you are not here, what you can do.
    If you want to use this crap of an OS, use Yaw cam http://www.yawcam.com
    This will at least let you use any camera, for any use that you may please.
    And to the other imbeciles why brag of what you know not.
    If it is not a point and click it will never work for you.
    This speaks highly of how much you do know, and is expected of you.

  45. To all of you noobs... by Wolfrider · · Score: 1

    ...who are complaining that Khyber's question/post is stupid, etc -- YOU ARE THE PROBLEM,
    *NOT* KHYBER. Slashdot used to be a valuable resource for questions like this. Try and Contribute something useful to the discussion IF you have any knowledge worth sharing, or feel free to go elsewhere and post your useless whinging somewhere else. This falls under "Stuff that matters."

    --Even tho I don't have any skin in this game, I learned something useful reading the responses that actually tried to help the guy with his situation - i.e. Win32 works, Win64 doesn't. Linux works. THAT ALONE makes it worth the submission, so GTFO if you don't like it.

    --
    .
    == WolfriderV6 == I'm willing to admit that *I just might* be wrong... Are you??