Firefox Adopts a 6-8 Week Variable Release Schedule (mozilla.org)

AmiMoJo writes: Four years ago Mozilla moved to a fixed-schedule release model, otherwise known as the Train Model, in which we released Firefox every six weeks to get features and updates to users faster. Now Mozilla is moving to a variable 6-8 week cycle, with the same number of releases per year but some flexibility to 'respond to emerging user and market needs' and allow time for holidays. The new release schedule looks like this:

• 2016-01-26 – Firefox 44
• 2016-03-08 – Firefox 45, ESR 45 (6 weeks cycle)
• 2016-04-19 – Firefox 46 (6 weeks cycle)
• 2016-06-07 – Firefox 47 (7 weeks cycle)
• 2016-08-02 – Firefox 48 (8 weeks cycle)
• 2016-09-13 – Firefox 49 (6 weeks cycle)
• 2016-11-08 – Firefox 50 (8 weeks cycle)
• 2016-12-13 – Firefox 50.0.1 (5 week cycle, release for critical fixes as needed)
• 2017-01-24 – Firefox 51 (6 weeks from prior release)

Comments

* TRIGGER WARNING *

[Anonymous Coward]

This first post may rustle your jimmies.

Re:* TRIGGER WARNING *

[Big Hairy Ian]

Wake me when they start practicing Premature Integration

Holy Cow

[sunderland56]

Once again, I'm glad I don't work for Mozilla. Is their plan subtitled "How to create burnout in your workforce"?

Seriously: Great company; but I hope the punishing schedule doesn't cause their workforce to abandon ship.

Re:Holy Cow

[phantomfive]

How can you possibly know if that is a tough schedule or not, without knowing what they are going to put into each release?
Release cadence is like a CPU clock speed.....it tells you nothing unless you know how much work is done during each cycle.

Re:Holy Cow

[sunderland56]

QA still needs to test the entire product every single release, no matter what was added or changed.

And just because you *can* slip an unfinished feature to the next release, doesn't mean your bosses will be happy about it.

Re:Holy Cow

[fustakrakich]

This upgrade treadmill is getting ridiculous. Can't anybody build anything that will last more than a few weeks? Am I that old to believe long tern stability is a good thing?

Re:Holy Cow

[phantomfive]

Sounds like you've been subjected to a lot of miserable software managers over the years.......

Re:Holy Cow

[phantomfive]

Yeap. Let it be a lesson to any software development team: every time you write a line of code, or add a feature, or remove a feature, ask yourself: "Does this feature clearly make the product better?"

If you answer no to that question too often (or if an unbiased observer would answer no), then you'll just be pushing things around haphazardly, like Google (and more likely you'll be making things worse).

Re:Holy Cow

[fustakrakich]

Well, the whole architecture, including (especially?) the hardware, is more fragile than a house of cards. A browser capable of bringing down the whole machine, or even an entire network? I mean, please! How does anybody find this acceptable? We are doing technology the same way we do politics.

Re:Holy Cow

[sunderland56]

"Does this feature clearly make the product better?"

You need to ask "better for whom".... better for the end user, or better for advertisers?

Re:Holy Cow

[Anonymous Coward]

Developers have already left Mozilla. They only have people who have backspace and delete keys in their keyboards, as the feature removal is their new mantra.

Re:Holy Cow

[phantomfive]

Better for your customers, of course. They're the ones who pay the bills.

Re:Holy Cow

[Anonymous Coward]

Didn't you get the memo? Mozilla is uncool now, so anything you can think of to bash them with, go right ahead, don't worry about facts.

Re:Holy Cow

[Barefoot Monkey]

It's not like they start a new version and then sprint to finish the entire thing and do QA and bugfixes all in 6 weeks. That would be ridiculous. If you look at their release history you see that after starting development on a new version it's 4-5 months before it's ready for release, which is quite a realistic timeframe.

Re:Holy Cow

[0100010001010011]

Am I that old to believe long tern stability is a good thing?

I just moved to FreeBSD for everything in my house. I'm too old for dicking around with 'bleeding edge'. When I was 17 'bleeding edge' was the latest Alpha or Beta release I could find of OS X. Anymore it seems like Windows is just the latest Alpha or Beta.

With FreeBSD it may be old or 'out of date' with the latest and greatest but it works.

Re:Holy Cow

[JustAnotherOldGuy]

QA still needs to test the entire product every single release, no matter what was added or changed.

Ha ha, only in theory.

Re:Holy Cow

[BarbaraHudson]

Didn't you get the memo? Mozilla is uncool now, so anything you can think of to bash them with, go right ahead, don't worry about facts.

You needed a memo???

Re:Holy Cow

[fustakrakich]

In Mozilla's (and Google's) case that would definitely be the advertisers, they are the ones paying the bills. These 'upgrades' seem to be for their exclusive benefit. Truly necessary upgrades also go into Seamonkey, and that hasn't happened since November 8th. I have to assume that Firefox 'upgrades' are purely cosmetic and/or economic.

Re:Holy Cow

[phantomfive]

In Mozilla's (and Google's) case that would definitely be the advertisers, they are the ones paying the bills. These 'upgrades' seem to be for their exclusive benefit.

TBH I don't even know what differences there are between Mozilla/Chrome/Safari compared to a year ago. The UI has moved around a bit, but mostly they seem the same (some people have complained about feature removal, but it hasn't affected me).

Re:Holy Cow

[fustakrakich]

If you want real UI stability, Seamonkey is it, hasn't changed in over 18 years. There's no need, it's perfect. Safari and Firefox and even Internet Explorer went out of their way to mimic chrome as soon as it came out.

I believe most of the 'upgrades' going into Firefox are beneath the skin, more like little bits of spyware and banners being added.

Re:Holy Cow

[mdelcorso]

Yes you are that old. Constant and continuous improvement is what drives innovation. Not a three year release cycle.

Re:Holy Cow

[fustakrakich]

Well, the key word now is "improvement", isn't it? That seems to be a matter of perception. I would love to know where the "improvements" are in a program that is no faster than, has grown just as fat as, and still has less than a quarter of the user features of its ancestor. Most of the processing is used to hide the garbage.

Re:Holy Cow

[exomondo]

I would love to know where the "improvements" are in a program that is no faster than, has grown just as fat as, and still has less than a quarter of the user features of its ancestor.

Then why haven't you just looked at the changelogs? The basic release notes for the latest release are here and the full changelog is here. Sure they could have just made these changes and sat on them for a time but why not just release them when they're ready?

Re:Holy Cow

[Anonymous Coward]

> Constant and continuous improvement is what drives constant regression failures, security failures, and bloatware beloved of middle managers who assess their work by line count and code churn by their minions.

Fixed That For You.

Re:Holy Cow

[UnknownSoldier]

/sarcasm Don't you know? Releasing more often magically fixes all the (old) bugs! :-)

Re:Holy Cow

[Anonymous Coward]

What happened to release early, release often?

Re:Holy Cow

[Anonymous Coward]

Can't anybody build anything that will last more than a few weeks?

Sure, Bugs.

Re:Holy Cow

[Anonymous Coward]

It is what it's always been - a slogan for the FSF shovelware crowd to not test or document their work.

Re:Holy Cow

[Anonymous Coward]

it's not a punishing schedule. they just basically did away with point releases being a 'thing' and instead are only fixes.... under old versioning scheme, we'd be at like 6.something right now at the most, and before that, we'd still be on 3.6.something.something

Re:Holy Cow

[fustakrakich]

I have seen the change logs, and in my opinion they reflect no improvement over the decades old all inclusive program that preceded it. And for those who remember, when it first came out Firefox was supposed to be lean and fast and *stripped of cruft*. It's not any of those things now. I don't know of any single browser right now that is not a 30+ megabyte download, and they all run about the same speed. I see no disadvantage of sticking with something a bit more familiar that I can run for years without having to think about "upgrades". And when I do upgrade, at least it still has the same familiar face from last century, hasn't aged a bit.

Re:Holy Cow

[Anonymous Coward]

"If you aren't paying for it, you aren't the customer, you're the product."
--- Internet truism

Re:Holy Cow

[gl4ss]

well..

I suppose some boss has bonus riding on how many releases gets out.

but not riding on what features if any get included in them.

this looks like a plan to make releases, not to make development.

Re:Holy Cow

[exomondo]

So is your beef with the accelerated release schedule or just that you don't like Firefox and prefer something else?

I see no disadvantage of sticking with something a bit more familiar that I can run for years without having to think about "upgrades".

So why not just do that then? You're free to do that and let others do what they want.

Re:Holy Cow

[fustakrakich]

So why not just do that then?

I do, but as I become a tiny minority, long term stability in the programs I use will cease to exist for lack of demand. Eh, whatever, the throwaway society is dominating all facets. Indeed, you are more than welcome to it.

Re:Holy Cow

[Malc]

In fairness they have an Extended Support Release that lasts a year. This is better than Chrome if that's what you want.

Re:Holy Cow

[Anonymous Coward]

Fuck off. He's giving you advice based on long term industry knowledge. You young whipersnappers think because there's a new version out it's legitimate and better. He's telling you it's a regression.

Re:Holy Cow

[ConceptJunkie]

You need to ask "better for whom".... better for the end user, or better for advertisers?

Better for your customers, of course. They're the ones who pay the bills.

So you're saying advertisers, then... because they _are_ the customers for most software these days.

Re:Holy Cow

[Merk42]

Even if you want to go with the most basic features of a browser. Rending HTML and CSS, no browser currently in existence supports all of them 100%. Therefore, Firefox (and any other browser) has a way to go

Re:Holy Cow

[R.Mo_Robert]

[...] Can't anybody build anything that will last more than a few weeks? Am I that old to believe long tern stability is a good thing?

Good thing Mozilla does just that, eh? They pick one of about every seven major-version Firefox release to make an ESR (extended support release) version, and they have been doing this since 2012. The ESR release is supported for one full year, plus another couple months or so (specifically, the time it takes to release the next major version of Firefox after that on which the last point release of the ESR version is based--they add critical fixes from major versions to ESR versions during the year of support but avoid major feature or UI changes).

This is intended for organizations that deploy Firefox and need some stability (e.g., to test something before deployment and ensure support longer than 6-8 weeks), but you can use it at home, too, if you want.

Re:Holy Cow

[exomondo]

I don't use Firefox, I prefer Chrome and the fact that it gets lots of updates is good because it adds support for new web features and fixes bugs and security issues.

Eh, whatever, the throwaway society is dominating all facets.

Nothing is being thrown away, in fact thanks to open source everything that was out there still is there and anybody can use and maintain it. I'm not sure exactly what you're upset about here.

Re:Holy Cow

[exomondo]

You young whipersnappers think because there's a new version out it's legitimate and better. He's telling you it's a regression.

Here is the changelog for the latest version, where is the regression?

Re:Holy Cow

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, I'm glad I don't work for Mozilla. Is their plan subtitled "How to create burnout in your workforce"?

Seriously: Great company; but I hope the punishing schedule doesn't cause their workforce to abandon ship.

I think you got it slightly wrong.

The schedule is met to prove that YOU CAN SHOOT CRAP OUT OF A MACHINE GUN AND MOST PEOPLE WILL CONSIDER IT USEFUL.

Re:Holy Cow

[MoarSauce123]

That all depends on the content for the iterations. I'm more worried about the boneheaded management moves that during the past years put Mozilla and Firefox way behind. They need to go back to building something that people actually want to use. Maybe a bit harsh, but they should throw away everything they did after FF 4.0 came out and start over after firing the egocentric dev leads. What bugs me most is that they solely feed the egos of their developers and at the same time whine because people stop giving them funding. I wonder how long it will take Mozilla to connect the dots.

Re:Holy Cow

[MoarSauce123]

Mozilla has QA? So how come they still have the massive memory leaks and totally dysfunctional UI in place? Either the QA team consists only of a coat hanger or of a bunch of frustrated QA analysts who report all the flaws that the developers reject to fix because the way it works is how the devs like it and dare nobody say it is not right.

Re:Holy Cow

[MoarSauce123]

QA is always an afterthought in most organizations...if it is a though at all. Look around and you will see plenty of mediocre apps. Yet users are apparently fine with that and rather see more half baked features crammed into apps than having the existing features work right.

Re:Holy Cow

[phantomfive]

Yet users are apparently fine with that

No they aren't it drives them crazy

Re:Holy Cow

[Anonymous Coward]

FF suffers from memory fragmentation, not memory leaks. I can leave the browser up all day and the memory usage doesn't increase.

Re:Holy Cow

[Anonymous Coward]

Name 1 thing in the past three years that changed in Firefox that is not

1. Bloat, or belongs in a plugin

or

2. Adds nothing positive to the user experience

Good luck

Re:Holy Cow

[Anonymous Coward]

I wish. All the spyware that they have moved from plugin to core is proof you are wrong.

Re:Holy Cow

[exomondo]

What's that got to do with anything I wrote? I don't user Firefox so I'm not really across its features but certainly looking at the exhaustive list of what was added to the latest release here I would say most of them fit those two categories.

I'm glad I saw this..

[Anonymous Coward]

Reminds me to install palemoon

Re:I'm glad I saw this..

[Anonymous Coward]

Every time I try palemoon I get constant crashes, freezing and poor rendering.

Wake up, Mozilla morons

[Anonymous Coward]

You keep on doing what YOU want, while ignoring what the USERS want.

Year after year, your popularity goes downhill. Do you even stop to think about that?

Somehow you've been frittering away over $500,000 every DAY for the last several years, and for what?

Your deliberate self-destruction is annoying and pathetic.

Re:Wake up, Mozilla morons

[jfdavis668]

What do the users want that they aren't supplying? I haven't noticed a problem.

Re:Wake up, Mozilla morons

[fustakrakich]

What do the users want that they aren't supplying?

Long term stability would be nice. A system that needs constant upgrading and maintenance is not a very good system. Imagine if you have to go out and get a new fridge or replace the drywall and siding on your house every month.

Re: Wake up, Mozilla morons

[Anonymous Coward]

So you're web is not working because you let Firefox automatically update from version x to version x+1? I mean is this long-term stable web browser really something that a substantial number of users want?

Re:Wake up, Mozilla morons

[Anonymous Coward]

Users want a consistent interface, which is to not be arbitrarily mucked with, or copy annoying features of That Other Browser, which do not serve the User. They want their browser not to routinely dumb down features to better accommodate the lowest common denominator.

They want a lightweight, extensible, secure browser that respects their right to privacy, and enhances their privacy on the Internet. So far, they've done just about everything in their power to make sure Firefox does not supply these features; for example: Pocket. No reason for it to be anything other than another extension. Promising to do away with the extension framework down the road. Doing absolutely nothing about browser fingerprinting, when they're in the ideal position to fight it. Not allowing power users to whitelist sites that don't abuse Javascript. Etc. Etc.

They want the extensions that attracted them to Firefox in the first place to continue to work, which is again something they've promised to do away with in some future release.

In other words, if you had a goose which laid golden eggs, you'd probably want to take care of it and stuff, right? These guys do anything in their power to neglect and annoy that goose. The goose is going neurotic and plucking its own feathers and banging its head against the wall, and they think it's great.

Re:Wake up, Mozilla morons

[Anonymous Coward]

At least I miss stability of the software and the user interface. Nobody wants to re-learn usage of a application every two months. Mozilla should stop messing the UI and if they really do not have better things to do, at least they should provide a way to select between stable UI and collection-of-new-ux-fads-of-the-week one. After all, it is just a browser, which should stay away while one browses the web.

Re:Wake up, Mozilla morons

[Okian Warrior]

What do the users want that they aren't supplying? I haven't noticed a problem.

Don't be silly!

The next release fixes the tagalog rendering issue. Everyone needs to upgrade!

Re:Wake up, Mozilla morons

[drinkypoo]

What do the users want that they aren't supplying? I haven't noticed a problem.

Performance and reliability. Graphics updates are slow and after I resume from suspend I have to restart the browser or it chokes every few seconds. Sadly, I went to Pale Moon and it has the same problem.

Re:Wake up, Mozilla morons

[jfdavis668]

From the responses, I see everyone wants different things. We can't have everything and still be a lightweight browser. That's the problem with all browsers. They are trying to give everything that everyone wants.

Re:Wake up, Mozilla morons

[Barefoot Monkey]

Sounds like you want Firefox Extended Support Release (ESR). ESR releases receive a major update only once every 10 months, but still receive the same bugfix and security patches as the regular releases. Also, when you do get updated to a new ESR version, you know that it's one that's already been supported as a regular release for 2 months, so there's very little chance of surprise problems.

The current version is Firefox ESR 38, which was released as ESR on 11 August last year. The next one is ESR 45, coming on 31 May, which will last all the way until 21 March next year.

Hope that helps you.

Re:Wake up, Mozilla morons

[fustakrakich]

Nah, I just use Mozilla's better product, Seamonkey. It has been very stable for a very long time, going on two decades.

Re:Wake up, Mozilla morons

[hackertourist]

It's more what they are taking away. It started with the status bar, then there was the ill-conceived move to Australis, version 44 removed fine-grained cookie permissions, next they're planning to kill off extensions.
Over the past few years they've spent countless hours on integrating features few people cared for, and more hours taking away features we actually used.

Re:Wake up, Mozilla morons

[Anonymous Coward]

Since when is 10 months of support considered ESR?

That just shows how fucking retarded Mozilla is.

Re: Wake up, Mozilla morons

[fustakrakich]

Ironically Mozilla does put out a very long-term stable web browser. They just don't push it like they do with Firefox. And yes, I do believe that users would prefer longer term stability. They just don't take to initiative to look for it, right in front of their nose. And no, I don't like automatic updates. They are untrustworthy and can break your machine. It is an unnecessary risk.

Re:Wake up, Mozilla morons

[Anonymous Coward]

In other words, if you had a goose which laid golden eggs, you'd probably want to take care of it and stuff, right?

And they're doing just that: stuff it!

Re: Wake up, Mozilla morons

[Anonymous Coward]

You may not like automatic updates but I think most people are quite happy with them. I do all my updates myself by running yum update in a root prompt every now and then. That's fine for me. On production systems I have automatic updates of security updates only, installing the rest when I find it appropriate. Most people though have nothing against automatic updates in general and just want their web browser to work with the newest tech that web sites make use of.

Re:Wake up, Mozilla morons

[Hognoxious]

It's better than vanilla Firefox, but it's still crap.

I hate it on small screens. You can't get rid of the huuuuuuuuge zoom %age thing, even though it's taking up half your screen. There are other things that can't be changed, even if you install third-party stuff. Classic theme restorer is a decent college try, but it's fighting a battle that should never have happened.

And if you like rounded tabs, it's so you can stick them up your butt easier.

Re: Wake up, Mozilla morons

[mike2006]

Why is it surprising that people actually want their business tool to work consistently. This 44 was one of the most unstable releases in awhile that is outright hampering user productivity. This happens a few times a year with these updates but this update is the worst one in years.

There should be no releases schedule. Updates should only be released when they are actually finished and tested free of bugs.

Re:Wake up, Mozilla morons

[ChunderDownunder]

Firefox OS user here.

Dropping the platform for starters.

Re:Wake up, Mozilla morons

[Anonymous Coward]

If you haven't, can you please file a bug? If they don't know about it it's hard to fix, so a detailed, descriptive bug report can make a huge impact on it getting resolved. That sounds like a really annoying problem and definitely needs to be fixed.

Re:Wake up, Mozilla morons

[narcc]

Firefox OS user here as well. You'll be interested to know that they're only dropping it internally on smartphone, though not until after 2.6. There's nothing stopping manufacturers from moving forward with it on their own, without specific support from Mozilla. A bit like how manufacturers can use Android without specifically involving Google.

Re:Wake up, Mozilla morons

[cmcqueen1975]

What do the users want that they aren't supplying? I haven't noticed a problem.

Performance and reliability. Graphics updates are slow and after I resume from suspend I have to restart the browser or it chokes every few seconds. Sadly, I went to Pale Moon and it has the same problem.

It might be possible that you're suffering from an operating system driver problem, e.g. from your graphics driver. It's worth checking if there is a graphics driver update available for your system.

Re:Wake up, Mozilla morons

[drinkypoo]

It might be possible that you're suffering from an operating system driver problem, e.g. from your graphics driver. It's worth checking if there is a graphics driver update available for your system.

It's persisted through multiple driver updates and indeed multiple graphics cards. It's probably related to some plugin, but why should a plugin even know that the system has been suspended?

Re:Wake up, Mozilla morons

[Darinbob]

Stability. It's a nice thing to have. But Firefox is adding NEW features every release, features that no one asked for. So instead of 6 to 8 weeks between security or bug fix releases, we have 6-8 weeks of major releases with 1 to 2 weeks in between for hot fixes.

Of course, if you are from the viewpoint that the customers are the advertising industry then perhaps you are right, they are being given everything they want.

Re:Wake up, Mozilla morons

[Darinbob]

Updates every 10 months if they are mandatory, is still too rapid. Remember when we could go a year or two without a major update that completely changed the UI or broke your plug ins?

Re:Wake up, Mozilla morons

[Anonymous Coward]

A system that needs constant upgrading and maintenance is not a very good system.

Like any system that interfaces with the atmosphere? The point is that the web standards, operating systems, attacks and hardware are evolving, and the legacy code base is creaking over the stress. The constant work with the browsers only stops after the way of consuming the information on the web and the hardware used to access it fundamentally changes.

Re:Wake up, Mozilla morons

[CRC'99]

... and at some point, someone will start fixing bugs in Thunderbird that have been there for years.....

Re:Wake up, Mozilla morons

[Waccoon]

Not to trivialize your problem, but if there's one nice thing I can say about Firefox is that it's been exceptionally reliable. I've had about 1 crash throughout all of 2015, and that's with Flash installed. Seriously.

I do know that Firefox's hardware graphics acceleration gave me many issues over the years, though that seems to have been resolved since I got my latest nVidia graphics card a couple years ago. My best suggestion is to disable hardware acceleration. Indeed, I can't think of why plugins, extensions, or profile setup would be affected by suspending the system, but if an application uses some "odd" hardware acceleration techniques, problems can persist even across many different video cards. Java (both applets and desktop apps) had the same problem for a long time.

Re:Wake up, Mozilla morons

[thegarbz]

You're describing the "power user" not the user "user".

But therein lies Firefox's problem. Most of it's users are in fact "power users".

Re:Wake up, Mozilla morons

[thegarbz]

Reliability does not need to be measured in "crashes". It can be measured in slowdowns, chokes, doing things to the system, not responding properly to user input...

I've had Firefox crash once. It took down every tab and the browser. Conversely I see Chrome crash a tab frequently, but handle it gracefully and given the lack of other faults (the above list) I find it to be the more "reliable" browser.
 

Re:Wake up, Mozilla morons

[Anonymous Coward]

$500,000 every day is roughly what you need for two full-time engineers per year, at a salary of roughly $100k (with ~%150 overhead).

That rate is highly dependent on the organization, their location, and their overhead rate. Where I work now it's approximately 150% overhead, I've worked places where that number was more like 400% due to some minimum charge for a warm body. If we assume greed (400%) at the top, then that $100k engineer costs $500k/year. You'll hit that each day if you have ~365 employees (napkin math) making the same amount. If you've got a number of gray-beards commanding $200/300k, you'll hit it much faster.

Why so much? Vacation, insurance, 401k matching, electricity, equipment (and refreshes), furniture, office supplies, utilities. To say nothing about the managers that charge indirectly, the administrative staff, legal team, HR, the cleaning crew, guards (if needed), and so on.

I don't know the size of the organization you're complaining about, or if you mean the Foundation or Corporation, but $500k a day is not a lot of money if you've got a significant number of employees.

Re: Wake up, Mozilla morons

[Anonymous Coward]

Many Firefox users are power users, yes. However, I cannot tell you how many installs I was responsible for over the years, for the sole reason of ad blockers, as I was helping people with various computer problems. Friends and family really liked it, being free of ads and malware, at least. When the Firefox devs started with the UI makeover stuff, I started getting a ton of calls and texts, because everyone knows I'm the local nerd.

Where did this button go? How do I print? How do I find my bookmarks? Etc. Etc. These jerks plainly don't understand either user base.

Re:Wake up, Mozilla morons

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, file a bug so it can sit unfixed for years and years until it gets marked WONTFIX...

Re: Wake up, Mozilla morons

[slipped_bit]

I turned off automatic updates a while back because the UI kept changing with each release. Specifically, things were moved around, hidden, and sometimes removed completely. Then there was the release where they forced automatic updates and removed the ability to not automatically update. I backed up a few revs to something stable. I wouldn't mind automatic updates if it was just bug fixes and not fundamental UI changes ("let's hid the URL bar", "Let's hide the menus", etc.) I'm glad my car doesn't do automatic updates (yet, I know some do). It's comforting to know that every time I get into my vehicle the brake pedal, accelerator, and the rest of the controls are in the same place with the same function as before.

Re:Wake up, Mozilla morons

[iampiti]

I haven't liked many of the latest changes in Firefox but I believe that its decrease in popularity has more to do with Google relentlessly pushing Chrome and the big shift to mobile than any actual faults in Firefox.
Obviously they should still try to please the users and to turn the tide

Re:Wake up, Mozilla morons

[Anonymous Coward]

A system that needs constant upgrading and maintenance is not a very good system.

Then show me the fully HTML5-compliant bug-free and totally secure browser that doesnt need upgrading or maintenance.

The problem with so many slashdotters these days is they are old and are just idealists with no real experience to understand that software that doesn't require maintenance does not exist, there will always be bugs to fix and/or improvements to make. Even your darling Seamonkey, take the latest release (2.39) which was released just six weeks after 2.38!

Imagine if you have to go out and get a new fridge or replace the drywall and siding on your house every month.

What a terrible analogy. Software doesnt degrade or break over time like physical goods, it is the same as when you first got it. You dont have to upgrade it if you don't want to, it is purely your choice whether you do or not.

Re: Wake up, Mozilla morons

[Anonymous Coward]

10 months of support is not " a very long-term stable web browser"

Re:Wake up, Mozilla morons

[Anonymous Coward]

software that doesn't require maintenance does not exist, there will always be bugs to fix and/or improvements to make.

Tell that to Knuth and his Tex program.

Re:Wake up, Mozilla morons

[Anonymous Coward]

Like that is going to happen.

No one uses with Mozilla'a support.

It is dead.

The resources of my computer are going to waste

[jones_supa]

Yeah, whatever man.

Firefox is falling off the wagon technologically anyway. You can feel the single-threaded model limiting things. Everything freezes from time to time and browsing is choppy. Google Maps is painfully laggy. Video playback uses huge amount of CPU. Screwing around with version numbers and release cycles are meaningless tweaks when there would be much bigger fundamental problems to solve.

Chrome and Edge is where the rippin' development is happening.

Re:The resources of my computer are going to waste

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, because they're not working on those bigger problems, right? It sure is easy to just criticize without actually knowing anything, and I've long given up on Slashdotters actually knowing what they're talking about. The biggest hurdle they have to cross with solving those problems right now is: addons. Yes, that's right, addons are keeping us from having the performance/multi-process upgrades we so desire in Firefox, because so many of them were written to depend on a slow and single-process Firefox. But yeah, totally Mozilla's fault, even if they're trying their best to keep those addons working before jumping shipping those much-desired improvements.

Re:The resources of my computer are going to waste

[Blaskowicz]

CHrome and Edge are rolling release just like Firefox.

Re:The resources of my computer are going to waste

[jones_supa]

Nice denialism.

Re:The resources of my computer are going to waste

[drinkypoo]

The biggest hurdle they have to cross with solving those problems right now is: addons. Yes, that's right, addons are keeping us from having the performance/multi-process upgrades we so desire in Firefox, because so many of them were written to depend on a slow and single-process Firefox.

Nonsense. You just announce that a new version is coming that will not support the old addons, and start releasing alphas a year (or so) before actually abandoning the old browser for the new one so that people have time to port the popular plugins.

Re:The resources of my computer are going to waste

[jones_supa]

That's not the point here.

Re:The resources of my computer are going to waste

[Anonymous Coward]

Additionally, it is not like they haven't done that before. Just look at Mozilla's add-on blog and I'm sure many people here can remember the bigger instances.

Re:The resources of my computer are going to waste

[Anonymous Coward]

There's a point here? I thought this was just the usual two minutes hate of Mozilla.

Re:The resources of my computer are going to waste

[narcc]

Yes, the point is to complain about Firefox, regardless of the merits of those complaints. Never mind that this schedule is actually lighter than the old schedule, nor that they've been doing rolling releases for ages. If Mozilla does anything, including something you've wanted them to do for a while, you've got to tell everyone it's the worst decision ever, and that the world is coming to an end.

Re:The resources of my computer are going to waste

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, whatever man.

. You can feel the single-threaded model limiting things.

What are you talking about? Firefox has been multi-threaded for over ten years at least.

Re:The resources of my computer are going to waste

[thegarbz]

The point is not what is a rolling release, but rather what gets rolled into each release.

Firefox does window dressing. Chrome / Edge do structural remodeling.

Re:The resources of my computer are going to waste

[jones_supa]

Exactly.

Re:The resources of my computer are going to waste

[jones_supa]

Not fully.

Re:The resources of my computer are going to waste

[Anonymous Coward]

It is possible to do rolling releases without breaking extensions at every release.

It is possible to do rolling releases without ripping out stuff that people are actually using, then telling them to replace it with yet more extensions that keep breaking at every release.

Re:The resources of my computer are going to waste

[Anonymous Coward]

The biggest hurdle they have to cross with solving those problems right now is: addons.

But yeah, totally Mozilla's fault

Absolutely, every release since somewhere around Firefox 4 has removed some functionality and told users to replace it with addons. With the result that some of us now have around 15 addons, that we need just to use the browser, otherwise we might as well go with Chrome.

Re:The resources of my computer are going to waste

[Anonymous Coward]

Firefox does window dressing. Chrome / Edge do structural remodeling.

Just see what e10s is doing. After the graphics update a while back has Chrome's multi-process model gotten structural updates?

AWESOME!

[Anonymous Coward]

This is great. Now we have a clear outlined schedule of when our privacy is taken out, release by release.

Re:AWESOME!

[Anonymous Coward]

You connect to a public network and transmit data unencrypted. Privacy is not being taken from you, you are voluntarily giving it away and you're just too dumb to notice.

Re:AWESOME!

[Anonymous Coward]

You connect to a public network and transmit data unencrypted. Privacy is not being taken from you, you are voluntarily giving it away and you're just too dumb to notice.

You're too dumb to notice what's been going on in Firefox in at least the last 20 releases.

cool story, bro

[Pseudonymous Powers]

Firefox Adopts a 6-8 Week Variable Release Schedule

Thanks for the info. Around here we dump our garbage on Tuesdays. Or Wednesdays if there's a three-day weekend.

Re:cool story, bro

[rubycodez]

I thought of something similar, but it has to do with regularity of sitting on a porcelain plumbing fixture. Really, Mozilla has gone off the rails of sanity.

Re:cool story, bro

[BarbaraHudson]

What ever happened to "it will be done when it's done?" Oh, right .... marketing ....

Re:cool story, bro

[radarskiy]

"it will be done when it's done?"

That's great if you're the only person working on a project*. In the real work, people are trying to schedule their work on X that depends on Y and Z versus their work on A that depends on B and C. Are you just going to sit on your thumbs fro Y, Z, B, and C to all finish?

*Actually, it isn't great if you're the only person on a project either, because somebody is waiting to use your project. That's what make it work rather than wasting time.

Re:cool story, bro

[BarbaraHudson]

"It will be done when it's done" isn't just for single programmers, you know. Oh, wait - you obviously don't. To bad, so sad. Maybe you should tell Linus that's he's doing it wrong.

Removing features faster than ever

[thegarbz]

With the new faster release cycle they can alienate the existing user base with more efficiency and at a faster pace than ever before!

Re:Removing features faster than ever

[Anonymous Coward]

They are not going to a faster release cycle, Einstein.

Re:Removing features faster than ever

[Anonymous Coward]

Good!

Maybe they'll start by removing "Hello," and "Pocket," and push notifications, and all the other garbage they keep bundling in that doesn't belong in a web browser. Who is asking for these features? If I want a damn videoconferencing client, I can install Skype or Gotomeeting, I don't want or need that shit bloating up my web browser.

What slays me is that we've been down this road before, with Navigator morphing into Communicator and trying so hard to do so much that it collapsed and died. Maybe the people at Mozilla weren't born yet when that disaster took place? It's the only excuse I can see for why this bit of history repeats itself.

Re:Removing features faster than ever

[ChunderDownunder]

Like it or not but webconferencing and push notifications have been implemented in the major competitors' browsers.

One human's bloat is another's functionality.

Re:Removing features faster than ever

[thegarbz]

Hardly. Major competitors laid the groundwork for implementing standards and left it at that. Firefox implemented whole clients complete with connection to third party for profit companies and then proceeds to pester the user about the feature.

It's a bigger implementation that goes way beyond what the standards call for and gets in the way of what Firefox was supposed to be, a web browser. Even Chrome has backed away from it's crappy notification centre, and out of the box running Chrome it looks and acts like a damn browser.

Re:Removing features faster than ever

[ConceptJunkie]

Perhaps, but the whole point of the Mozilla project was to get back to basics, eliminate the bloat, and make a tool that does one thing well. Well, it was 10+ years ago anyway.

AWESOME!

[Anonymous Coward]

Now we get a clear outlined schedule of when our privacy is taken away release by release.

Dumb

[110010001000]

The idea of having a "regular schedule" of releases is stupid. What if you didn't have any compelling features to add? You are just going to do a release because that is what the release schedule says? Here is a hint guys: writing software is not supposed to be just to keep you busy. It is supposed to deliver a product that is useful.

Re:Dumb

[CrankyFool]

You don't think they're figuring out what features they're going to build into a release when they start the 6-8 week cycle for that release, do you? I suspect that, like any other sane engineering organizations, they have a large backlog of features and issues to pick from for each release.

Re:Dumb

[Osgeld]

unlikelike any other sane engineering organizations, nothing in that backlog is useful or improves the product in any sort of way

Re:Dumb

[PsychoSlashDot]

You're mostly right. I'm sure they have a very detailed plan for what features to remove at each release. By end-of-year 2017 the goal is to have Firefox resemble Notepad, only without mouse, keyboard, or clipboard input support.

Re:Dumb

[110010001000]

Who knows? Are they going to know what features they need to add in 2017, now? What if a critical bug crops up? Wait 6-8 weeks? Why do they have large backlog of features? It is a browser.

Re:Dumb

[Anonymous Coward]

It's the same schedule their Dev's change their underwear.

Re:Dumb

[Deep Esophagus]

Obviously each of those releases includes compelling features that have been added. They wouldn't bump up the major version number for a few trivial tweaks and patches, would they?

Re:Dumb

[Anonymous Coward]

And then you take a look at how many things are fixed and improved between Firefox releases and you realize that 6-8 weeks is actually a pretty long time in those terms. But yeah, easy to just say something silly and obviously wrong, and get modded insightful around here.

Re:Dumb

[Junta]

Conversely, if you have no planned cadence, you can land in development hell, churning eternally without actually releasing because in the time feature A has matured, you decided to squeeze in feature B and decided it can't release without B, rinse and repeat.

Re:Dumb

[johncandale]

The log just shows how many things are fixed/improved but can't show how many new bugs are introduced to be found later

Re:Dumb

[Anonymous Coward]

Firefox is pretty much feature complete at this point. I wish Mozilla would spend several releases focusing on nothing but bug fixes. Take four releases in a row and have them focus only on bug fixes, and don't introduce any new features.

Re:Dumb

[narcc]

They'll do what they've always done, release a minor update to deal with the security issue or critical bug.

They've had a release schedule for ages, you know, it's right there in the summary.

Re:Dumb

[radarskiy]

"What if you didn't have any compelling features to add?"

If there really are no new features and no bug fixes, then you can change the plan and not do a release on that date.

There is vast difference between a changeable plan and no plan at all.

Re:Dumb

[Kjella]

You think say the Linux kernel isn't useful? They've been on a three month cycle for ages, roughly one month merge window and two months of release candidates. Basically what you want is for everybody to time box what they can do before the next release, but you can't know if you don't know how long that'll be. Maybe if it's two months you'll do some quick enhancements and fixes but if it's six you do a deeper restructuring. If 90% of your developers have finished according to plan and 10% is threatening to hold up the release then the great majority won't be able to effectively use a small extension. It's better to just scrub the parts that aren't ready and say we're releasing now, sorry try again next merge window. Of course assuming that you have a large enough project that there'll be some release-worthy items every cycle and that people don't just submit shit for release no matter what state it's in. There's a lot less drama about who is important and can rush patches and delay releases if the answer is no, you can't. Only bugfixes during RC, if your code breaks shit or needs major rework you're bumped to the next version. If you don't have a person with balls managing that your releases will suck, but if you can't stand up to the developers it'll probably suck on a rolling basis too.

Re:Dumb

[Anonymous Coward]

But there will surely be support for Microsoft(r) Kinect(r) and Intel(r) Realsense(tm) cameras, so you can stare at it while doing nothing and get the recognition any self-respecting Millenial(tm) requires.

Re:Dumb

[tlhIngan]

Who knows? Are they going to know what features they need to add in 2017, now? What if a critical bug crops up? Wait 6-8 weeks? Why do they have large backlog of features? It is a browser.

Given I seem to get Firefox update notifications every 2 weeks or so, I'm not exactly sure what's the entire point of these 6-8 week releases.

Each update is still as disruptive as ever, so is it every 4th update now is even more disruptive or what?

It's not a 'six-week' release schedule.

[ThaumaTechnician]

It's a 42-day release schedule.

It's a small but important difference.

Re:It's not a 'six-week' release schedule.

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a 42-day release schedule.

It's a small but important difference.

Cool, just in time to to pose the question to life, the universe and everything else.

Re:It's not a 'six-week' release schedule.

[rossdee]

Next month theyre going to rename the organization to The Sirius Cybernetics Corporation

Re:It's not a 'six-week' release schedule.

[ThaumaTechnician]

And their Marketing Division will have been the first against the wall when the revolution came.

What about instead waiting until it's ready?

[Anonymous Coward]

Pushing out releases just to check a checkbox off is very Agile. Instead, you should work towards making better software instead of trying to hit metrics.

Re: What about instead waiting until it's ready?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yep. They sound process driven instead of results driven. In other words, agile.

Re: What about instead waiting until it's ready?

[Anonymous Coward]

How will management ever know you're working if you don't do planning poker and assign story points?

Re: What about instead waiting until it's ready?

[Anonymous Coward]

This. They don't brag about what they want to accomplish. Instead, the talk about how fast they're going to finish their release cycle.

Re: What about instead waiting until it's ready?

[phantomfive]

Ever since Mythical Man Month came out, there has been plenty of focus on managing programmers, on how to improve managers (which isn't necessarily bad, and MMM is a great book).
The end result is that sometimes programmers run around like mindless monkeys, following process, and trying to figure out what is wrong with their process and what change they need to make to make things better.

In reality, it's not the process, if you want a good team and a good product, you need to focus on improving the programmers: the process is secondary. The best Agile proponents actually do focus on improving the skill of the team, but too many of the consultants out there are focused on process, process, process,, which leads to mindless monkeys.

But getting back to MMM, Fred Brooks pointed out that unless you have a giant team, the exact processes you use are kind of irrelevant.

Re: What about instead waiting until it's ready?

[Anonymous Coward]

And after twenty-five years in the business, scrum is the biggest driver to the run around like no lies but. Instead of working on what is important, people try to throw something together to talk about in scrum.

Re: What about instead waiting until it's ready?

[Anonymous Coward]

And it sounds like they're not going to allow work to be done that takes more than one regales cycle. That means fundamental problems will not be allowed to be addressed, which is very agile-like with its demand that you not do any task that takes longer than a sprint.

Re: What about instead waiting until it's ready?

[phantomfive]

people try to throw something together to talk about in scrum.

Thanks. You just reminded me of the months I've spent sitting in pointless 'standups' waiting while people say mindless things to other people who aren't listening. Good times.

Re: What about instead waiting until it's ready?

[Anonymous Coward]

In reality, it's not the process, if you want a good team and a good product, you need to focus on improving the programmers: the process is secondary. The best Agile proponents actually do focus on improving the skill of the team, but too many of the consultants out there are focused on process, process, process,, which leads to mindless monkeys.

As near as I can tell, mindless monkeys is often the goal. Well quick mindless monkeys that produce something good enough to get the next round of funding. Last I checked, programmers were still people. Forcing people to blindly conform to process and schedule first, rather than quality just drops morale, and long term you will have worse products, and perhaps products with structural defects deep in the system because an unrealistic planned schedule was used for all the estimates.

Combine that with the truth that poor quality software can be dangerous. An innocent game could be used as an attack vector to compromise a platform. A library could be used in a military product and lead to compromise. The people that included could have a schedule, so they just made it good enough to work and moved on. Such a library could even be used in a medical application. Combine that with the possibility of using a standard Windows OS with remote access for support and you have a potentially dangerous situation.

I'm less than certain that Mozilla needs to release updates so frequently, save for security, and those should not include non security related changes. Focus on getting it right and making sure it is right. If that reduces the releases to only a few a year, but those few releases just work, and what's more, you can be reasonably sure you have a solid product that won't need a security update the next day, then I think that is preferable.

Re: What about instead waiting until it's ready?

[Anonymous Coward]

Scrum is a cancer. My favorite is when a mediocre (at best) developer constantly uses excuses about time to shut down more competent programmers. So you sit idle most of the time because what you're allowed to do is trivial or impossible and everything else is forbidden. Then they can't figure out why after dozens of missed deadlines, the product still can't do much of anything.

Re: What about instead waiting until it's ready?

[Junta]

That's what I've always hated about people's approach to status meetings (scrum and before scrum). People take up my time talking at length about what *they* successfully did at a detail level I do not need. Tell me things that are done, and don't give me details of how arduous it was to get there. Tell me if you are having a problem and would like to have some help.

I've always viewed things like I've done a good job if there's not much to say about the work done.

Re: What about instead waiting until it's ready?

[Junta]

That has been a long standing problem with many companies, that they strive to make software developers interchangeable cogs through process. Apply enough process and you'll get great products whether you use experienced and enthusiastic people or bottom of the barrel people who can't make more money another way.

Re: What about instead waiting until it's ready?

[phantomfive]

When I manage, if I don't know what someone is working on, I go and ask them personally. I don't need to waste everyone else's time in a status meeting to discover that. Generally I know what everyone is working on (because I either assigned it to them or they let me know). If someone is going to have trouble getting something done on time, I expect them to tell me immediately, not wait until a status meeting.

Status meetings are especially a waste of time when you have a status tracker. Why do I need to wait in a meeting while everyone announces their status, when that information is already contained in the status tracker??

Re:What about instead waiting until it's ready?

[Anonymous Coward]

Metrics is not something to be hit, instead it is something that hits you without you even noticing.

If I'd wanted to know that ...

[Anonymous Coward]

If I'd wanted to know that, I'd have gone to their site.

Re:If I'd wanted to know that ...

[KGIII]

While that may be true, the same can be said for almost anything on here - except Ask Slashdot and Interviews. I'm not sure you understand the point of a news aggregation site.

Train

[Anonymous Coward]

Good that they are adopting the train model, so that now they can be more of a trainwreck than ever.
I've always enjoyed the idea that You can solve a problem of running a marathon slowly, by dividing it into sprints, which we all know are being run by the fastest people.

What's the schedule for reducing bloat?

[QuietLagoon]

The schedule allows new features to be added more quickly, so Firefox will get more bloated more quickly.

.
This is a good thing, how?

Re:Removing features faster than ever V2.0

[Anonymous Coward]

With the new faster release cycle they can alienate the existing user base with more efficiency and at a faster pace than ever before!!

Does this schedule leave time for listening?

[hackertourist]

Over the past few years Mozilla has made tons of unpopular changes despite vociferous complaints. Will the new release schedule give them time to find out what their remaining users actually want?

Re:Does this schedule leave time for listening?

[Anonymous Coward]

I have neither understood why Mozilla does not listen to their users. Even Microsoft seems to listen the Windows Feedback app a lot. :)

Re: Does this schedule leave time for listening?

[Anonymous Coward]

You obviously never used Windows 8.

Re: Does this schedule leave time for listening?

[Junta]

Windows 10 is a pretty good sign they were paying *some* attention to the Windows 8 reaction.

To be fair, until they released, they couldn't gauge the reaction from the market they *wanted* in Windows 8, mobile/tablet users. Yes the desktop users may have made it quite clear how screwed up it was, but MS doesn't really need to care about them, they are a captive audience. They wanted to capture the market they couldn't get before.

Re:Does this schedule leave time for listening?

[narcc]

Look at this thread. If you were to believe every comment about what "the users want", then they want deeply contradictory things.

What you mean is "why doesn't Mozilla listen to me?" "Why aren't they tailoring their browser to meet my specific needs?"

We've got people here claiming that all Mozilla does is remove features. We've another camp complaining that all Mozilla does is add needless features. Then you have the camp that isn't happy even when they get what they want. They complain about the plugin system, then complain when they get exactly what they wanted. They complain about imaginary problems. They complain about things that were fixed years ago. I wouldn't listen to this group of users either.

Re:Does this schedule leave time for listening?

[Anonymous Coward]

The first two groups are in agreement. It's just that one group complains about removal of useful functionality, replacing it with addons , while the other group is complaining about adding stuff like Pocket.

The last group sounds made up. The complaints about addons is that Mozilla keeps breaking them, and rather than solving that, they are now proposing to break every single plugin for good.

Re:Does this schedule leave time for listening?

[iampiti]

That smile at the end might be sarcasm but...I have to correct you: They released Windows Feedback to *pretend* they listen to you. They even show that some of my suggestions have been upvoted but I can't see by whom. I believe it's just a smokescreen so they can pretend they listen while doing the changes they had already planned before.
About Mozilla: The changes against the users are mostly in two categories: Simplifying the browser and changes to generate income. The first kind I guess are to adapt the browser to non-power users who's a larger market than of power users. In my mind it's a mistake since it was power users who made it important in the first place ...but I might be biased by my condition of power user.
The second kind needs no explanation: Mozilla needs money and hence the integration of unwanted services and subtle advertising.

Re: Does this schedule leave time for listening?

[Anonymous Coward]

People wanted ads in the start menu and for their machines to listen in to conversations, do searches on it and send the data to MS?

10 days should be enough.

[Anonymous Coward]

Brendan Eich, then working for Nestcape now still at Mozilla, defined created and demoed the first version of Javascript in ten days. Or so the story goes.

Clearly the young guys at Mozilla today should be able to do that kind of ground breaking work every two weeks.

Re:10 days should be enough.

[phantomfive]

Brendan Eich, then working for Nestcape now still at Mozilla, defined created and demoed the first version of Javascript in ten days.

And it shows. The web would have been better if he'd spent a little more time thinking about it.

Flexibility?

[MtHuurne]

some flexibility to 'respond to emerging user and market needs'
(snip)
2017-01-24 – Firefox 51 (6 weeks from prior release)

I don't understand where they'll get the flexibility from when they're planning releases a year ahead...

Re:Flexibility?

[Anonymous Coward]

Because now they'll be able to work around major holidays and pre-planned events more easily. They've also already been flexing a fair bit over the last couple of years, so they might as well make it official.

Re:Flexibility?

[radarskiy]

Making a plan does not mean that you cannot change the plan.

Re:Flexibility?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a release cycle. It means that any features that are ready to be released can be released in that cycle without waiting for other, unrelated developments which aren't yet ready.

plugin obsolesence

[Anonymous Coward]

Gee i sure hope they make every plugin obsolete every six weeks, too! I just LOVE losing well-tested addons after update after update after update...
Just one word: Chrome.

Re: plugin obsolesence

[Anonymous Coward]

What about Chrome? For all I know it was Chrome that started this rapid release thing.

Re:plugin obsolesence

[johncandale]

google spyware? no thanks

Re:plugin obsolesence

[Anonymous Coward]

While you wrote plugin, I'm assuming you meant extensions.

You'll be happy to know that Mozilla plans on solving your compatibility problem by removing support for XPCOM and XUL based extensions and moving Firefox to a Chrome-like add-on model.

Re: plugin obsolesence

[ConceptJunkie]

Chrome was the first browser to do rapid releases and version number escalation.

I would recommend PaleMoon. It's Firefox without the churn and without the feature bingo.

Re:plugin obsolesence

[Anonymous Coward]

yeah, like chrome doesn't have any issues.

Mozilla's problem is a lack of basic math ability

[Anonymous Coward]

Replacing a fixed 6 week schedule with a 6 to 8 week schedule and having the same number of releases a year is mathematically impossible

Re:Mozilla's problem is a lack of basic math abili

[Rockoon]

Replacing a fixed 6 week schedule with a 6 to 8 week schedule and having the same number of releases a year is mathematically impossible

Veracity isnt one of the metrics that they were "optimizing."

Re: The resources of my computer are going to wast

[Anonymous Coward]

How is this NOT Mozillas fault. They chose to hold onto a dying system instead of upgrading. I Don't blame anyone else but mozilla for this. They have been ignoring their users for way to long.

My rule of thumb...

[Junta]

If a group embraces the terminology of the most popular 'process', it's probably bad. In other words, most teams are bad and use whatever is most popularized as a stand in, and tend to act however they want, but pay lipservice to the popular process to make themselves look like they are following industry best practices.

I'll add to the 'unless you have a giant team' that if you have a giant team, you've *probably* done something wrong. Most software development teams I've seen with over a hundred full time developers really would be better to have maybe a dozen or so good people. It's the mistake of conflating importance with needed manpower. Then in an effort to utilize said manpower for what should be a smaller project, very silly things happen in the architecture.

All that said, I think the suggested strategy on making the date rather than getting all the features isn't bad, so long as quality doesn't take a hit. In other words, wait until it's ready with respect to bugs, but don't let a missing feature hold you up.

Re:My rule of thumb...

[phantomfive]

If a group embraces the terminology of the most popular 'process', it's probably bad. In other words, most teams are bad and use whatever is most popularized as a stand in, and tend to act however they want, but pay lipservice to the popular process to make themselves look like they are following industry best practices.

Yes, and instead of giving them a new process (which will fix nothing), it would be more effective to train them to be better programmers. Focus on the individuals, not the process.

1 month left

[Anonymous Coward]

ESR 38 forever

Re:1 month left

[Anonymous Coward]

Yep, me too. Except I'm pissed that they've moved up the sync a month. I guess it doesn't matter though in the long run. Mozilla seems determine to reduce their user base to nil.

Holy beef

[invictusvoyd]

Perhaps they leave the QA to the users .

Re:Holy beef

[phantomfive]

I was wondering that, so I searched and apparently Mozilla has a QA team, and they even have a blog. Morale seems to be good, they even send members of their team to conferences......

Re:Holy beef

[davester666]

I just wish Firefox could show how much CPU power a given tab was using. I normally have a bunch of tabs open, and the whole browser just dies sometimes. I know Amazon sucks for this, they really like periodically reloading the page and also run a crapload of javascript to track what you are doing on a given page, and ebay is only slightly less annoying.

Re:Holy beef

[phantomfive]

A lot of webpages have memory leaks. They keep loading stuff and never unloading it.
And that's not even talking about the 'infinite scroll' pages like Pinterest.

Re:Holy beef

[Anonymous Coward]

It's called "user self-test" (it's a fashion thing these days)

Re:Holy beef

[fbobraga]

Like terms like "IoT" nowadays and "Cloud Computing" sometime ago: buzzwords ftw!

Re:Holy beef

[Anonymous Coward]

That is not a memory leak.

A lot of JS that gets loaded, needs to stay loaded while the page is displaying.

An infinite scoll page is not a memory leak either.

Re:Holy beef

[Xest]

Maybe morale is good and they get to spend their days blogging and going to conferences because they leave QA to the users?

Hosts != that 4 speed/security/reliability

[Anonymous Coward]

See subject: Hosts do more for it for less APK Hosts File Engine 9.0++ SR-4 32/64-bit http://start64.com/index.php?o...

-

FREE, not 'souled-out' to advertisers!

Does far more w/ far less more efficiently vs. addons (clarityray blockable, redundant + RAM/CPU wasteful & 'souled-out' crippled by default) & local DNS servers @ home.

Fixes DNS' security issues & stops tracking @ webpage + DNS levels via 1 file you NATIVELY have!

(Firewalls do rest on FAR less used IP address trackers/threats vs. host-domain names).

-

Obtains data vs. online threats & ads via 10 reputable security community sites - easily edited by you using my program.

-

SPEEDS YOU UP 2 ways:

Adblocking ALL ads + local RAM cached favorite sites @ TOP of hosts for faster resolution vs. remote DNS (for reliability + speed) vs. other "so-called security 'solutions'" SLOWING YOU!

-

All via what you already have vs. illogically "bolting on browser addons 'MOAR'" (clarityray detected/blockable + usermode slow & increased messagepassing, cpu + ram overheads)

-

MalwareBytes' hpHosts Admin (MalwareBytes employee verified it's source as safe http://forum.hosts-file.net/vi... ) hosts & recommends it -> http://hosts-file.net/?s=Downl...

&

MalwareBytes = BEST antivirus per a VERY recent testing of them all http://www.av-test.org/en/news...

&

It's safe proven by 57 antivirus programs in BOTH its 64-bit model https://www.virustotal.com/en/...

+

32-bit model https://www.virustotal.com/en/...

&

Installer-> http://f.virscan.org/APKHostsF...

-

* "The premise is quite simple: Take something designed by nature & reprogram it to make it work for the body rather than against it..." - Dr. Alice Krippen: "I am legend".

APK

P.S.=> By "yours truly" - "The Lord of Hosts" so-to-speak:

"The image this title brings to mind is a mighty military commander who can at a mere word summon rank upon rank of protective power" -> https://answers.yahoo.com/ques... & THE WORD = hosts!

(Accept NO substitutes)

...apk

Re:Hosts != that 4 speed/security/reliability

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you understand the depth of your retardation?

Host files is a blunt instrument that has no adaptability and needs constant updating.

Blacklists suck ass.

Dipshit.

How about you do the world a favor and forget to breathe?

I'm impressed

[fahrbot-bot]

• 2016-11-08 – Firefox 50 (8 weeks cycle)
• 2016-12-13 – Firefox 50.0.1 (5 week cycle, release for critical fixes as needed)
• 2017-01-24 – Firefox 51 (6 weeks from prior release)

They already know, 11 months in advanced, they'll need a critical fixes release then - and have planned ahead - so we can count on smoooooth sailing until December.

Re:I'm impressed

[vux984]

No. They already know 11 months in advance, that they will do a bug-fix fix only release a week before the christmas/new years holiday season; when everyone takes off for a few weeks.

They will not release anything major that release.
And they will make it a short cycle (5 weeks) because by the next week, the 20th of December, people will already be taking off.

you never bothered to ask whether or not you shoul

[johncandale]

You were so busy with whether or not you could, you never bothered to ask whether or not you should. Every update is a chance to introduce a bug or incompatibility. I want stable software that runs on 2 -5 year old hardware. Also it takes time and bandwidth to do updates. The new interface is equivalent value to the old one, but the old one was better because we were used to it, etc

Seriously?

[JustAnotherOldGuy]

My children will be using Firefox ver 7,462,354,846.01

They'll need to buy more memory just to keep the version number from using up all the RAM.

Re:Seriously?

[Anonymous Coward]

The new year 20XX problem will be when the Firefox version number rolls over.

Re:Seriously?

[Anonymous Coward]

Plus a 128-bit OS and CPU.

Maybe they should just use GUID's for verison numbers.

Re:Seriously?

[shawn2772]

My children will be using Firefox ver 7,462,354,846.01

Lessee, Firefox's is at version 44, so you expect your children to be alive (7462354846-44)*7/52 = 1,004,547,761 years from now. But, after they've downloaded their consciousness into asteroid-sized computers, will they actually need a web browser? At that point, they should be able to just accept the raw ZPHTML42 text and render it mentally into the appropriate N-dimensional conceptual structure.

Re:Seriously?

[Anonymous Coward]

I actually did the calculations for that, and at an average of 7 weeks per release they'll hit version 7,462,354,846.01 in almost exactly 995 million years.

Re:Seriously?

[ConceptJunkie]

Maybe they should just use GUID's for verison numbers.

That joke is less funny when you realize that's exactly what Git does.

Re:Seriously?

[Anonymous Coward]

Dear God, you are an idiot.

That's all.

Hosts != that 4 speed/security/reliability

[Anonymous Coward]

See subject: Hosts do more for it for less APK Hosts File Engine 9.0++ SR-4 32/64-bit http://start64.com/index.php?o...

-

FREE, not 'souled-out' to advertisers!

Does far more w/ far less more efficiently vs. addons (clarityray blockable, redundant + RAM/CPU wasteful & 'souled-out' crippled by default) & local DNS servers @ home.

Fixes DNS' security issues & stops tracking @ webpage + DNS levels via 1 file you NATIVELY have!

(Firewalls do rest on FAR less used IP address trackers/threats vs. host-domain names).

-

Obtains data vs. online threats & ads via 10 reputable security community sites - easily edited by you using my program.

-

SPEEDS YOU UP 2 ways:

Adblocking ALL ads + local RAM cached favorite sites @ TOP of hosts for faster resolution vs. remote DNS (for reliability + speed) vs. other "so-called security 'solutions'" SLOWING YOU!

-

All via what you already have vs. illogically "bolting on browser addons 'MOAR'" (clarityray detected/blockable + usermode slow & increased messagepassing, cpu + ram overheads)

-

MalwareBytes' hpHosts Admin (MalwareBytes employee verified it's source as safe http://forum.hosts-file.net/vi... ) hosts & recommends it -> http://hosts-file.net/?s=Downl...

&

MalwareBytes = BEST antivirus per a VERY recent testing of them all http://www.av-test.org/en/news...

&

It's safe proven by 57 antivirus programs in BOTH its 64-bit model https://www.virustotal.com/en/...

+

32-bit model https://www.virustotal.com/en/...

&

Installer-> http://f.virscan.org/APKHostsF...

-

* "The premise is quite simple: Take something designed by nature & reprogram it to make it work for the body rather than against it..." - Dr. Alice Krippen: "I am legend".

APK

P.S.=> By "yours truly" - "The Lord of Hosts" so-to-speak:

"The image this title brings to mind is a mighty military commander who can at a mere word summon rank upon rank of protective power" -> https://answers.yahoo.com/ques... & THE WORD = hosts!

(Accept NO substitutes)

...apk

Here's an idea for a feature

[JustAnotherOldGuy]

Here's an idea for a feature...make it stop inexorably sucking up more and more memory until it slows to a crawl and then crashes.

Now that would a cool feature.

Re:Here's an idea for a feature

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know what you're talking about. I'm using Firefox and I don't see that problem. Maybe you have a faulty extension that's doing this. Maybe it's Flash that's doing this. I don't have Flash installed on this computer.

Re:Here's an idea for a feature

[radarskiy]

"I don't see that problem."

Therefore that problem cannot exist for anyone.

Re:Here's an idea for a feature

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's an idea for a feature...make it stop inexorably sucking up more and more memory until it slows to a crawl and then crashes.

Now that would a cool feature.

You talking about Chrome there?

Re:Here's an idea for a feature

[Waccoon]

Yesterday I caught Firefox using 2.6 GB of memory with only three windows (not tabs) open. I used the profiler to track what was causing the long, regular 2-3 second freezes, and it's always the garbage collector. 95% of any web page's rendering time was caused by the memory manager choking. I closed all but one window, and set the last window to "about:blank." Memory usage didn't even budge. Almost all of that RAM was used by the Javascript heap.

The only time I've ever seen applications use more memory is when I'm running video games, and those programs are designed to waste as much memory as possible.

Re:Here's an idea for a feature

[Waccoon]

To compliment radarskiy's comment, I'll add that awful memory management has been a well-documented problem in Firefox for over 8 years.

Saying that a plugin/extension is causing obscene memory usage in a browser is in the same league as blaming a virus for an OS crash. It's a cop-out, and flat-out wrong.

Re:Here's an idea for a feature

[JustAnotherOldGuy]

I closed all but one window, and set the last window to "about:blank." Memory usage didn't even budge.

Yep. On my PC after a while Firefox routinely climbs to gobble up 1.9 GB of RAM and then starts to screw up. I close all the windows and leave just one tab loaded, and it's still sucking up 1.9 GB. I close that last window and it frees up all the memory.

Firefox has been doing this for years with no end or fix in sight. If they were going to fix just one problem, this would be the one I'd suggest.

Re:Here's an idea for a feature

[Anonymous Coward]

about:memory

Mr. webmaster, ready to die?

[Anonymous Coward]

See subject & this (exposes your CRUDE motives asshole) http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

APK

P.S.=> "It's going to be a PLEASURE watching you DIE, Mr. Anderson..."

... apk

Re:Mr. webmaster, ready to die?

[phantomfive]

I think you need to calm down, man.

Re:Mr. webmaster, ready to die?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think JustAnotherOldGuy needs to answer that question.

Re:Mr. webmaster, ready to die?

[Anonymous Coward]

He sure shut up in a hurry didn't he? His 4 posts in fast succession suddenly ceased. His post history shows a slew of rants vs. apk. Now we know why.

Re:Mr. webmaster, ready to die?

[phantomfive]

In forums, sometimes they're the idiot, sometimes I'm the idiot.

Re:Mr. webmaster, ready to die?

[radarskiy]

"Now we know why"

We have always known why: APK is an idiot.

Re:Mr. webmaster, ready to die?

[Anonymous Coward]

Doesn't look it to me with downmods you're applying to apk's posts that Mr. webmaster doesn't answer either, hahaha! Look obvious to me apk nailed him.

Re:Mr. webmaster, ready to die?

[JustAnotherOldGuy]

If the question is, "You are a webmaster", then the answer is yes, I run several sites. What's your point?

Re:Mr. webmaster, ready to die?

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you get paid by ads on them too? What sites are they?

Re:Mr. webmaster, ready to die?

[Anonymous Coward]

What's with this offtopic bullshit? Does anyone other than you care? Do you not realise how your posts come across?

Whatever your obsession with JustAnotherOldGuy is, perhaps it would be better for you to find another hobby.

It's no mere theory you're a webmaster

[Anonymous Coward]

See subject & this (exposes your CRUDE motives asshole) http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

APK

P.S.=> "It's going to be a PLEASURE watching you DIE, Mr. Anderson..."

... apk

Re:It's no mere theory you're a webmaster

[Anonymous Coward]

APK is butt hurt that his failed hosts files is a running joke and that everyone knows that his defenders are just him being a troll.

You are a waste of oxygen

Re:Removing features faster than ever V2.0

[Anonymous Coward]

They are not going to a faster release cycle, Einstein.

Your children watch Mr. webmaster suicide?

[Anonymous Coward]

See subject & this (exposes your CRUDE motives asshole) http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

APK

P.S.=> "It's going to be a PLEASURE watching you DIE, Mr. Anderson..."

... apk

I can't use FireFox anymore

[Anonymous Coward]

First, I never use software until it has been out for 6 months after a major release, to allow time for bug fixes since major point releases are never stable (and that goes for ANY software). FireFox can never meet this requirement because they make a major point release every 6 weeks.

Second, I only have 32GB of memory, which is not enough to run FireFox - I mean - it is, but if you forget to close it before you go to work, you'll come home to find a molten pile of goo where your PC used to be because FireFox slowly ate up all the RAM and pegged the CPU when it finally ran out.

Your children watch Mr. webmaster suicide?

[Anonymous Coward]

See subject & this (exposes your CRUDE motives asshole) http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

* DOWNMODDING THIS TO HIDE IT CHUMP? Yes -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

APK

P.S.=> "It's going to be a PLEASURE watching you DIE, Mr. Anderson..." ... apk

Mr. webmaster, ready to die?

[Anonymous Coward]

See subject & this (exposes your CRUDE motives asshole) http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

* DOWNMODDING THIS TO HIDE IT CHUMP? Yes -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

(& it's NOT the only place you have, now is it? 5 FAST posts from you today in succession, but oddly (not) MY POSTS NOW SILENCED YOUR LAME ASS, eh? Yes... "gosh, wonder WHY?" (not)).

APK

P.S.=> "It's going to be a PLEASURE watching you DIE, Mr. Anderson..."

... apk

Oh ___, not again!

[Anonymous Coward]

Short release cycles mean inadequate in-depth TESTING. This has been done before when FF rocketed through it teens and tweens. Now it will reach retirement age version numbers before you blink.
I don't want Google's spy giftware named after some metallic element, and offshoots & forks of FF really suck. So for Linux, what options are there to move to?

Mr. webmaster, ready to die?

[Anonymous Coward]

See subject & this (exposes your CRUDE motives asshole) http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

* DOWNMODDING THIS 2x now TO HIDE IT CHUMP? Yes -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p... & http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

(& it's NOT the only place you have, now is it? 5 FAST posts from you today in succession, but oddly (not) MY POSTS NOW SILENCED YOUR LAME ASS, eh? Yes... "gosh, wonder WHY?" (not)).

3 strikes & YER OUT(ed)...

APK

P.S.=> "It's going to be a PLEASURE watching you DIE, Mr. Anderson..."

... apk

Your children watch Mr. webmaster's suicide?

[Anonymous Coward]

See subject & this (exposes your CRUDE motives asshole) http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

* DOWNMODDING THIS 2x now TO HIDE IT CHUMP? Yes -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p... + http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

APK

P.S.=> "It's going to be a PLEASURE watching you DIE, Mr. Anderson..."

... apk

FFS...

[Anonymous Coward]

Versions are for wimps -- REAL programmers go with rolling releases that update as you type code.

First you start with traditional releases -- new stuff when warranted, security updates as needed.
Then you move to fixed-schedule releases -- something will come out regardless of circumstances.
Now you've got flexible releases -- something will come out regardless of circumstances + wiggle room.

Just get with the times and move to rolling releases already ffs!

Fuck you and your A(I)DS

[Anonymous Coward]

You marketing SHILL ASSHOLE!!

Captcha: discuss

Mr. webmaster, ready to die?

[Anonymous Coward]

See subject & this (exposes your CRUDE motives asshole) http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

* DOWNMODDING THIS 3x now TO HIDE IT CHUMP? Yes -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p... & http://slashdot.org/comments.p... + http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

Keep downmodding & making me look right all the more, lol - I can keep this up FOREVER just to see you SQUIRM!

(& it's NOT the only place you have, now is it? 5 FAST posts from you today in succession, but oddly (not) MY POSTS NOW SILENCED YOUR LAME ASS, eh? Yes... "gosh, wonder WHY?" (not)).

3 strikes & YER OUT(ed)...

APK

P.S.=> "It's going to be a PLEASURE watching you DIE, Mr. Anderson..."

... apk

Your children watch Mr. webmaster's suicide?

[Anonymous Coward]

See subject & this (exposes your CRUDE motives asshole) http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

* DOWNMODDING THIS 3x now TO HIDE IT CHUMP? Yes -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p... & http://slashdot.org/comments.p... + http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

(LMAO - Thank you (for being SO transparently STUPID, making ME look GOOD & justifying my shitting ALL OVER YOU, vindicating this...)).

APK

P.S.=> "It's going to be a PLEASURE watching you DIE, Mr. Anderson..."

... apk

Version 39 was the last good version

[Anonymous Coward]

Since version 40 firefox went to the gutter and switched to Palemoon.

how about...

[Anonymous Coward]

... releasing when there is something worthy of release?

Lesson for Mozilla

[Anonymous Coward]

Semantic versioning. It's not perfect, but it's a thousand times better than the insane major version bumping you're doing. When was the last time you crazy kids released an xx.1.0 version? What's the point of "43.0.1" if there's essentially zero chance you'll ever release "43.1.0" in the future?

Hosts != that 4 speed/security/reliability

[Anonymous Coward]

See subject: Hosts do more for it for less APK Hosts File Engine 9.0++ SR-4 32/64-bit http://www.start64.com/index.p...

  APK

Posting this with Pale Moon, 64-bit version.

[Futurepower(R)]

Pale Moon is a version of the Firefox code without a lot of the managerial mistakes made by Mozilla Foundation. Pale Moon has a 64-bit edition that in my experience is far more stable than Firefox. Firefox has memory hogging and subsequent instability that causes it to crash when there are many windows and tabs open.

Usually Firefox add-ons work perfectly with Pale Moon.

Pale Moon has tools for migration from Firefox and for backup. Adblock Latitude blocks ads. There are other Pale Moon add-ons.

Nice add-on for both Firefox and Pale Moon: The Open Link in... add-on provides an "Open Link in Background Tab" option that is good for deciding which Slashdot stories you want to read later.

Last one to leave turn out the lights

[Anonymous Coward]

6-8 weeks... one week for each of their remaining customers! HAHAHA ... what... too soon?

So nearly every month the update popup will open..

[Anonymous Coward]

...to complain about incompatible add-ons, which are invariably just the localisation package.

You know what? I don't want a browser that nags me all the time. If I liked that, I'd install some malware.

Real schedule

[Anonymous Coward]

2016-01-26 – Firefox 44, completely new UI

2016-03-08 – Firefox 45, stumbleupon now built-in

2016-04-19 – Firefox 46, removed api for adblocking

2016-06-07 – Firefox 47, settings dialog now based on firefox os

2016-08-02 – Firefox 48, made yandex default search engine

2016-09-13 – Firefox 49, built in chrome bridge