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'Rogue Scientists' Could Exploit Gene Editing Technology, Experts Warn (theguardian.com)
A senior geneticist and a bioethicist warned on Friday that they fear "rogue scientists" operating outside the bounds of law, and agreed with a US intelligence chief's assertion this week that gene editing technology could have huge, and potentially dangerous, consequences. Recent advances in genetics allow scientists to edit DNA quickly and accurately, making research into diseases, such as cystic fibrosis and cancer, easier than ever before. But researchers increasingly caution that they have to work with extreme care, for fear that gene editing could be deployed as bioterrorism or, in a more likely scenario, result in an accident that could make humans more susceptible to disease rather than less.
result in an accident that could make humans more susceptible to disease rather than less.
Zombies? Where is my shotgun when I need it?
Will be easy to whip up now!!!
These scientists did awful things with DNA
I don't know if TFA is overblown for the short term or not, but it seems to me that we are quickly sliding into a world that was previously only science fiction.
Whenever did ethics get in the way of doing stuff, mad-scientist style?
It seems reasonable to assume that those with money and goals have been able to proceed down paths that are ethically and lawfully beyond the pale.
This is why we have to put Julian Bashir's parents away for a long, long time.
We cannot run the risk of another KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN.
KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!
There are plenty of infectious agents that we don't have treatments against, so why would anybody go through the trouble of modifying bubonic plague, instead of just picking one of those? Why bubonic plague, an organism that is transmitted by fleas? And why haven't terrorists used biological weapons successfully before if there is such a risk from them?
Furthermore, for the kinds of changes a terrorist would want to make to bacteria or viruses, they wouldn't need CRISPR; CRISPR is mostly useful for targeted modifications in higher organisms.
The whole thing is just homeland security and bioethicists trying to get attention and funding; it's bullshit.
Why did they save that?
Humans are fucking overrated. It's all what anyone talks about.
I saw that movie too.
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
Scientists cannot edit DNA quickly and accurately. They don't even know how DNA works really. Much the like the fear of AI it is totally overblown. We aren't any closer to AI than we were in the 1960s.
The cat will get out of the bag eventually. What matters is whether it happens sooner than later.
One principle of America has been that democracy is attained when the government is afraid of the people, not the people of the government. However, this is just a line. Governments don't want to be afraid of people, and technology has been a contributor the power of the government. While as in 1776, a man with a rifle posed a small risk to a government, this advantage has been diminished with the advent of modern weapons. Modern technology takes time to master and lots of money. Occasionally, a person comes along with an education and the understanding which gives him a significant ability to use these resources (as much as government can). Simple example, a country can exhibit a directed force against an adversary on the other side of the globe. In 1776, the US could obtain freedom from Britan, largely because fighting a war over an ocean was expensive and logistically difficult. That and England relied on Hessian mercenaries who were poorly paid for their services. England decided that the cost was not worth it, as there were other lucrative colonies to pursue which did not require as much of an investment.
Super regeneration or super strength would be nice, but I will settle for selective enlargement or super pheromone production.
does Beau come in SD and ultra HD?
c'mon, man.
Robots are going to take all of our jobs unless politicians outlaw automation!
Every woman is going to get raped unless we subject all males to monthly lectures by feminists!
Video games are going to turn our kids into mass murderers, we must outlaw them!
Climate change is going to flood our cities and kill all polar bears unless we give trillions to "green corporations" and support "the right politicians"!
GMOs are going to cause our kids to mutate into tentacled monsters unless we pass laws outlawing them!
The world is going to be hit by an asteroid unless we spend trillions on an asteroid defense shield!
Bioterrorists are going to kill us all unless we increase the funding for DHS and bioethicist research ten-fold!
We are all going to be slaves to "the 1%" unless we tax "the 1%" out of existence!
Why doesn't anybody do anything??? We must elect the right leaders because we are incapable of thinking for ourselves! Let everybody self-flagellate for their sins (other than me, I'm pure)!
The only conclusion from all these panics is that a large percentage of the US population is luddites and sheep.
Fortunately, we know from gun controllers what all the arguments are for regulating something during a moral panic:
- We must regulate this assault science.
- No more than 7 strands of DNA -- why would anyone ever need more than that?
- Scientists must register and be fingerprinted by their local sherrif.
- They must keep all their test tubes in a regulation safe when not in use.
- Scientists shouldn't have access to automatic equipment. No military-style scientific equipment either.
- One equipment purchase per scientist per month.
- Buying scientific equipment for another scientist will be a felony.
- Convicted felons won't be allowed to possess scientific equipment.
- Scientific equipment will only be allowed to be sold through a licensed dealer, with Federal background checks.
These and other common-sense controls will help keep us safe from these rogue scientists. We must enact them now, before it's too late!
"Some of these labs might alter particular genes to create so-called “designer babies”, with tailored features that range from height and eye color to disease immunity." Who came up with the term designer babies? Sounds so inhuman. Babies are not accessories like designer handbags or designer shoes.
And all bets are off when the fricken' sharks arrive.
The problem here is the solution, and I knew this was coming since the 1990s.
I have been a type 1 diabetic for 20 years and have been following gene editing technology and stem cell research vigorously since then and what I have noticed and concluded is simply that if we play our cards right, we need not be afraid despite all of the fear mongering that is based on science fiction.
1- Cures to unfair and unfortunate diseases that have been killers of children will be solved, if we don't stand in the way of scientific progress.
2- Government regulation in the free world will be needed (with serious public oversight) to ensure that monetary interests and uneducated luddites do not de-rail the technological development (and this has far reaching consequences if not handled correctly.. more on this below.)
3- The 1950's era mentality of FDA regulation of medicine, medical developments and the "You have to spend billions of dollars or you don't get to play" paradigm, has to go away otherwise the US is going to take a back seat in this race and the fears about bioterrorism will be an actual problem.. more on this below.
4- All of the "3 arm sally" jokes are based on science fiction.. yes you could conceivably engineer a way to do just about anything to a child, but would any reasonable person actually do it? If they do it is the SAME technology, that would correct the problem. If dangerous diseases or developments came about because of the use of this technology, burying our heads in the sand and illegalizing all scientific progress or requiring levels of testing such that only multi-trillion dollar companies with obvious financial interests can come to the table will actually make the solutions to the bad parts of this MUCH harder to do and will negate the intended and ethical use of this technology MUCH harder.
5- The rights of the individual undergoing the treatments must be respected. IF someone such as myself wants to take a risk to cure a disease, it is precisely 0 business of the government. I will say it again, If a person with a genetic disease wants to risk gene therapy to cure that nightmare the GOVERNMENT HAS 0 RIGHT to stand in their way.. PERIOD! This is akin to them standing in the way of life , liberty and the pursuit of happiness, therefore it is no concern of the government what I do to my body. IF I want different color eyes, a cure for diabetes, the ability to process carbohydrates more efficiently, or whatever, that is my private concern and they should not even be able to inquire about it per HIPPA laws. Done deal, this does not require ethical debate or any more time wasting.
The more on the above points.
Yes there are fear mongers who think this DIY approach or open source science approach to genetic technology is scary, yes it is, but The very technology that can bring about such horrors is the same technology that would allow regulations and management of the same things that are possible with this technology. Burying our heads in the sand, being science deniers or trying to make every part of scientific progress "Illegal" or only legal if you have Billions of dollars is not ethical, rather the simplest and smarter solution is to allow the FDA to operate in a looser fashion such that diseases that have sufficient evidence to be cured by this technology can be cured and each bit of this will contribute to the collective understanding of what is possible with this technology so that there need not be fear.. if some terrorist group makes airborne AIDS viruses or something, we will need to be faster with the gene technology that can thwart such a horror and the road to the types of tools that would be needed to make that kind of safeguard possible is not had by the FDA burying their heads in the sand or by hiding behind some poorly thought out ethical model or belief system while people are suffering and dying from diseases that could be cured today if the financial interests and regulators would get out of the way and allow the scientific method to do it's job. Ther
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
http://www.the-scientist.com/?...
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
Gene splicing autonomous killer robots brought to Earth by aliens find Jesus.... riding on Bigfoot's shoulders.
Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
No kidding. All we need is someone with lab access to drop the right genes into HIV and you'll start getting AIDS patient who glow.
The world will pay for what they did to me..I told them I'd do it, but they didnt believe me!!!!! *cackles madly before turning back to his DNA amplification and CRISPR starter kit*
I don't see why viruses couldn't be modified to target different races. It could be more nefarious with government backing/testing behind it. ...
Infect everyone like a common cold, then after a period of x years cause every (select race) to have liver failure or
On the otherhand we could use the technology to increase the IQ of the world(This has added effect of reducing religious terrorism), increase human lifespan, etc.
I've been saying for years the real threat is genetic engineering and biological weapons which could be made in a basement or the back of a van and if done right could kill millions or people or more.
There is no radiation signature. There is no huge infrastructure required to refine the genes or like nuclear weapons require.
The potential is far more dangerous and it requires way less money or industry to accomplish. As it stands I see nothing stopping one expert from collecting the needed tools and creating a super virus capable of killing untold amounts of people. Due to the inability to stop this threat like you sort of can with nuclear proliferation, it's far far more dangerous than nuclear power. Countries like North Korea could probably get a lot more evil for their dollar by investing in genetic engineering. It's also not something we directly relative to weapons like nuclear technology, but in reality and organized and funded person could setup a genetic weapons lab far far faster than a nuclear one. Then you just let mother nature do the work.
But.. this is all nothing new at all. The technology to do real danger with min requirement has existed out in the open for 20+ years now. Having the FBI director point it out is a great way to bring modern terrorists attention to this option. I don't know how we wind up with such idiots in such high level positions. Clearly attacking encryption or pointing out to terrorists that genetic engineering has a lot of terror potential seems kind of stupid.
We can't stop the already proliferated science of manipulating genes. It's all over the world. So what exactly does this fool think he has to gain by this? Do they think they are going to lure in terrorists to do google searches on DIY genetic engineering? That's stupid.
If you want to lure in terrorists just put up a giant statue of Muhammad fucking a goat and any arab looking person who shows up with a gun gets shot. Most terrorists are stupid enough to fall for that because their grasp of reality and their motives are very simplistic. It's only a tiny fraction of these guys who can even read and write. Fundamentalists are almost never hard to lure into traps like that because a certain level of blind passion is required to be a zealot, they are easy to set off, easy to profile and easy to predict.
What would be hard would be to try to monitor them with a bunch of immature scripts that don't take into account much more that mass data mining.. leaving you with a big pile of mostly useless data, which is now harder to go through than just starting over. That's what happens when you just collect data without a good plan as to what data goes where and what use different bits of data actually are.
Procedurally-generated and perma-death.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Because our recusing from genetic engineering will have effect on the ability of bad actors to exploit the tech. All it would do is prevent us from fighting back.
I for only welcome our the new hallucinogenic flu season.
The US Intelligence chief is just afraid that the scientists will find the backdoor they left in the human genome, and edit it out.
Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
"No, no, noooooo!" says the father, "I meant the green jeans you wore when we first went out!"
*facepalm*
Remember the rogue economists and bankers (actually we accept their ideas as normal and good for humanity so they are not really rogue by some definitions) who created the 2008 financial crisis and the subsequent transfer of even more wealth to the rich and powerful?
Rogue.. who is to say what rogue is?
Rogue scientists could build a nuke. Oh, wait....
Or rogue terrorists could fly jets into the World Trade Center towers in New York. Oh, wait
Or a rogue US president could lie about WMDs in Iraq and send troops. Oh, wait...
Etc.
Lots of bad shit could happen. Let's not run around like chickens with our heads cut off though.
Waiting For The Barbarians
What are we waiting for, assembled in the forum?
The barbarians are due here today.
Why isn't anything happening in the senate?
Why do the senators sit there without legislating?
Because the barbarians are coming today.
What laws can the senators make now?
Once the barbarians are here, they'll do the legislating.
Why did our emperor get up so early,
and why is he sitting at the city's main gate
on his throne, in state, wearing the crown?
Because the barbarians are coming today
and the emperor is waiting to receive their leader.
He has even prepared a scroll to give him,
replete with titles, with imposing names.
Why have our two consuls and praetors come out today
wearing their embroidered, their scarlet togas?
Why have they put on bracelets with so many amethysts,
and rings sparkling with magnificent emeralds?
Why are they carrying elegant canes
beautifully worked in silver and gold?
Because the barbarians are coming today
and things like that dazzle the barbarians.
Why don't our distinguished orators come forward as usual
to make their speeches, say what they have to say?
Because the barbarians are coming today
and they're bored by rhetoric and public speaking.
Why this sudden restlessness, this confusion?
(How serious people's faces have become.)
Why are the streets and squares emptying so rapidly,
everyone going home so lost in thought?
Because night has fallen and the barbarians have not come.
And some who have just returned from the border say
there are no barbarians any longer.
And now, what's going to happen to us without barbarians?
They were, those people, a kind of solution.
Constantine P. Cavafy
1863 – 1933
Translated from Greek
Out with the old and in with the old?
Seriously this is some pretty hefty garbage.
"You should always go to other people's funerals; otherwise, they won't come to yours." -- Yogi Berra
Rogue AI developers could create superintelligent robots capable of conquering the world.
So why not just use a retrovirus (inactivated versions of herpes or even HIV have been used in gene therapy I think) to insert the DNA into the host, I mean person.
Then, using a "gene drive" (a technique for making the host transmit its genes to the next generation much higher than the 50% from Mendelian genetics, usually 95-99%. It does this by putting the gene on both chromosomes) you can effectively wipe out the entire (human) population in a span of 2^n generations where 2^n = human population (or about 33 generations assuming no inbreeding and only two kids per family). That is a long time (close to a millennia).
Of course that's assuming you only infect ONE individual, it would be easy (using mosquitos for example) to infect potentially millions in a short period of time. Or better yet, put it in a flu virus that's been engineered as a retrovirus. In that case you could "sterilize" a good portion of humanity in just a few generations I think.
I think we've solved the Fermi paradox! :)
On second thought :(
...what you'll REALLY be worried about though is where you'll get your next job.
Science is good for us, it keeps the ideas fresh, spreads the wealth instead of a selected few, it even helps contribute to natural selection (however harsh that might sound), but there's something MUCH worse you SHOULD worry about - and that's the coming civil unrest, mass lay-offs, the new working class vs the non working class.
Technically I think the future is bright, but that's only AFTER 20+ years or so...when we're past that rough transition we're just currently seeing the beginning stages of. The automation is actually good for us, then we can concentrate on things that matter instead of one big Who's got a job and who's not game we're so used to from the industrial revolution. Our 50's factory work ethics and school systems are long outdated and needs to change with the times. We're no longer an assembly line population. Our main concerns in the future will be improving our health, inventions and innovations, media and entertainment will be MASSIVE. But we won't have the same kind of jobs we used to have, we'll have some kind of society where the money as we know it - has been totally abolished, but everyone will be able to pursue their own happiness (if we succeed as a society) and we will look into improving life on our planet rather than see who dies with the most stuff or have the highest pile of money.
Now this scenario is as scary for the small elite who owns the largest amount of property and capital in the world as it is for the little man in the street who's just worried about losing his nickel and dime income. Why? Because the rich elite is just happy with the way things used to be, they had it - you don't and the politicians lobbied to make you perfectly content with what you got - and be that happy little worker bee that you should be, collect your salary, support your family and die like the rest. But the future won't be like that at all, in fact - it will even out the classes because when money vanishes - everyone becomes equal in status...so the status will take a different form, like in innovation and science instead of how much money you managed to collect.
This means a lot of people will live better lives, but the way things have worked so far...I can promise you there will be a huge fight, the elite will NOT give up their wealth so easily, and the average Joe will become pretty desperate as we slowly but surely move into total automation, and they will fight with beak and claws for the few jobs that are left. Politicians will pretty much try to save their own hind because they're exactly like you...humans too...so they'll tell YOU what YOU want to hear to become elected, if not...YOU will just vote for those that do, yep...that's humans for ya.
So yep, we're in for a TOUGH ride, but it will get better, rest assured. Or...don't rest! Do your best!
What this world is coming to - is for you and me to decide.
This technology will be life changing in fact generation changing. Please keep it up.
More like established and wealthy governments, in the name of democracy, national security and the usual world domination. It wasn't rogue scientists who have developed chemical weapons, the atom bomb etc.
They saved Hitler's cock, They hid it under a rock.
I discovered it, last night. I couldn't even, believe my eyes.
If Hitler's cock could start to talk, it would say: To kill today.
If Hitler's cock could choose it's mate, it would ask, for Sharon Tate!
They saved Hitler's cock. They stuffed it in Mengele's sock.
They saved Hitler's cock, and now it wants to talk.
Now it's starting to get hard, I found it in my backyard.
Every night it kills a dog, and now it wants, some night and fog
Hitler's cock is on the move, and now I'm scared of what it's gonna do!
-- The Angry Samoans
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
OMG! | grep [confirmed threats]
The world is going to be hit by an asteroid unless we spend trillions on an asteroid defense shield!
For all that other stuff the real risk hinges on issues of personal, political and economic RESTRAINT
Everyone will be trying to sell you their favorite answers to those other 'threats' 'till Judgement Day.
They'll also be pushing answers (eg DNA splicing pathogen research for 'defense') that carry extreme risk.
The asteroid danger is the only real confirmed existential threat here.
It will require unanimous effort and the 'weaponization of space' but until it is done we're just waiting to die suddenly.
Even the US population being luddites and sheep is not a problem, if you come up with a low-tech solution and manage to enough of convince them.
<blink>down the rabbit hole</blink>
is a potential terrorist. Every man is a potential rapist, some would say. And now, every scientist is a potential super-villain. "It's a matter of national security." The age-old cries of wolf and danger from the oppressive U.S are as loud as ever.
"A senior geneticist and a bioethicist" umm who? When articles start off with "an expert says" without publishing their name everything that follows afterward is untrustworthy. Welcome to the new Slashdot, just another propaganda avenue.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
Just saying.
Want something sinister? manipulate the common flu to mutate rapidly and spreads easier. Imagine catching the flu that never ever goes away, you can cripple a country's workforce rapidly. If you never get away from the Flu symptoms your work output drops dramatically, productivity drops dramatically, etc...
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
I know I am acting as a one-note musician of late, so feel free to skip this if you've heard it (from me) before but this is not just the shape things to come, it is one example of a force which will dictate every aspect of your life, every aspect of how governments are (re)structured, every one of our childrens' lives will be grounded in and determined in large part by this force. The force is simply the fact that technology is rapidly bestowing the power to cause very great destruction to very large number of people into the hands of smaller and smaller groups of people, tending towards one. In fact the level of destruction is tending towards "death" and the number of victims is tending towards "everyone". That is a world changing event sneaking up on us and no one is taking it all that seriously, at least, no one I have granola and lattes with.
It's not just genetics, it's all forms of DIYBio and eventually nanotechnology; it makes viruses ransomware and even city-closing SCADA attacks look like the good old days. If what happened in cyber happens in the real world it will look like this: hackers will toy with genetics and bio-based "stuff" under the hacker ethos of free exploration for everyone. Most of it will just come to nothing, but someone will find a way to turn all the algae in public fountains neon blue and everyone will think it's cool. Then the blackhats will start to get involved and create malicious wetware. Then the DIYBio hackers will try to step in and write wetware to protect us against wetware. We know where this goes. We know who has the upper hand and who is always playing catch-up in this cat and mouse game.
The problem, the real problem is we're a failed species. Because of the way we evolved, owing to evolutionary pressures where winning is strictly defined as making babies (DNA passing itself on through the device of making brains and bodies that want to pass it on.. any other type of DNA eventually gets shut out of existence), very many people are completely governed by genetically mediated impulses which serve fish, lions and apes well enough but spell doom for humans. Those impulses just keep driving people to *more* of certain behaviors, without limit. More money, more power, more land, more resources, more control over other people and what they do and think and of course who they fuck (religious zealots) . It's all about gathering to yourself and monopolizing as much as possible all money and power and therefore, women and thereby offspring. You have countless examples of exactly this behavior in medieval times where the local Lord would avail himself of any peasant bride the night before she was married or in with polygamous cultures like modern day Saudi Arabia or just being a NBA star or a corporate executive or a rock star.. it's the drive to control resources and be the alpha male in order to maximize your genetic fitness, and of course, it has to be pointed out that women overwhelming prefer such males.
Those are extreme examples all, but they go to the heart to of the issue with our species- it's why there's social inequities at all. It's why there's war and totalitarian dictatorships and income inequities and why a small group of people will band together to fuck over millions and billions of other people just to preserve their privileged status. It's about status which is about controlling resources which is about copulation and genetic success whether the bearers of those impulses are aware of it or not.
We *could* be a species whose members, as soon as they are assured they will always have enough immediately and determinedly set about to provide and lift up their fellow humans. We *could* be a species whose strongest desire is to make sure everyone in our community has the basics necessary for a decent living. Are we that species? Have you ever wondered why not? Why do billionaires offshore their wealth to tax havens and give less of their net income to charity than "average" people? Why do dictators dictate anything other than fairness and ec
Some good points there, but it's too late for us now anyway.
Our time ran out when the methane hydrates in permafrost and on the continental shelves started decomposing. We've passed the tipping point, as that process can't be stopped, is self-reinforcing, and is some 30 to 100 times as powerful as CO2 on various timescales.
I would say "It was nice while it lasted" ... except for the fact that it wasn't. It's been no pleasure being part of a blind, barbaric species.
"bioethicist" sounds fancy but strikes me as a load of codswallop. Much like 'philosopher' anyone can claim to be one, and be right.
This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
I keep seeing this in the news, so I'm assuming that the feds are setting the groundwork to introduce legislation to "fix" this problem (because laws are magical and can stop bad guys from doing bad things). I actually don't know *why* they want to stifle research in this area - I mean the actual, real reason, not the scary bullshit - but someone apparently wants a monopoly on it or something.
Do you have ESP?
If one takes a broad view of the situation, then even if mistakes are made and there is an extinction-level genetic goof-up, perhaps we can take solace in the fact that our impact on the planet's other ecosystems could potentially be eased and life may go on just fine without us. Sad for us, perhaps good for the ecosystem as a whole.
If its so easy to edit genes how come no scientist is able to fix anything ? Oh yeah fixing isnt profitable. Making meds to live with your disease now thats profitable...
Invariably it was an MBA grad that asked for the highly marketable enhancement. The scientists, presented with a problem, just solved it.
Someone who uses knowledge in some way not approved by the establishment? By that definition, I can think of no greater shame than to be a non-rogue scientist.
From an intelligence-community-related experience, such technologies (combined with nano tech) are already in use. Major players are the major economies/military. An average person might not even know she's a target.
How do we know that rouge scientists (*cough* Government agencies *cough*) arnt already exploiting this technology?
Seriously? The technology required to do this stuff will only get easier to use and cheaper. Rolling your own equipment will become simple (if it's not already simple). In short order, any whack-job will be able to do this. Maybe it's time to call Bruce Willis?
linquendum tondere
Stated as if petty nation/state laws could solve all problems. Childish!
If not, then how exactly are "rogue" scientists supposed to cause trouble? Are they working at a rogue University? Sure, they could be working at a facility run by a rogue nation, but that really just makes them military researchers, not "rogue geneticists".
A humanity's capabilities advance, the good guys can get gooder but the bad guys can get badder!
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
They're just figuring this out NOW in 2016?