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Auschwitz Museum Releases Software To Rewrite Holocaust Nomenclature (thestack.com)

An anonymous reader writes: The Auschwitz-Birkenau Memorial and Museum has released software for Windows and Mac which is intended to catch and rewrite terms such as 'Polish death camps' and other phrases which associate the Polish people with the atrocities of the holocaust, rather than the occupying German forces which created and ran the death camps. The software comes in the form of Microsoft Word Add-Ins on Windows and a revision to the system-wide dictionary in OSX, making the facility available to Mac programs including Safari, Keynote and Outlook. A spokesperson for the ad agency that developed the programs said, "We decided to make use of the primary tool used by text writers and create an easy to install add-on that finds the mistake made and suggests a correct phrase."

115 of 228 comments (clear)

  1. Re:What's holocaust? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    My grandparents died in the Holocaust when they were six. Show some respect.

  2. Related to recent government measures by vivaoporto · · Score: 4, Informative

    Probably related to the recent measures proposed by the Polish government to criminalize the use of the phrase âoePolish death campsâ.

    1. Re:Related to recent government measures by JustNiz · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Spot the irony here? The Polish government are using the law to supress/enforce what they want the people to think... which is a move directly from the Nazis own playbook.

      I find it VERY concerning when software tools and even laws are made with the intention of preventing certain language from ever being written. Its clearly a win for "political correctthink" rather than actually free speech.

    2. Re:Related to recent government measures by KiloByte · · Score: 1, Interesting

      They forgot the little detail that most death camps were reopened shortly after the war, operated for years by the Polish government (Soviet puppets but still).

      This excludes Auschwitz which was left as a widely-touted museum to show the world how bad the Nazis were, while the other camps were not spoken of, sometimes with all their traces actively purged.

      And yeah, I'm a Polack.

      --
      The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
    3. Re:Related to recent government measures by Megol · · Score: 1

      So you are an idiot, do you really think your opinion matters?

    4. Re:Related to recent government measures by JustNiz · · Score: 1

      Whatever I am or not, at least I'm not a childish dick like you.

    5. Re:Related to recent government measures by AmiMoJo · · Score: 3, Informative

      Okay, it pays to RTFA before getting upset about it. Turns out the proposal to criminalise use of this phrase is just something some guy in the government said he wants, not an actual policy and certainly not likely to become law. So forget that, it's just a click bait story built on a foundation of bullshit.

      The software is a tool to help people. Like a spell checker, people like tools that improve their writing. It's optional, no one is being forced to use it. Similar tools have existed for years, like grammar checkers that suggest avoiding gendered pronouns in technical writing and on forms etc. It's not attempting to censor or silence anyone, or force anyone to do anything.

      It's an interesting tool but basically a non-story.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    6. Re:Related to recent government measures by vux984 · · Score: 2

      I do so love a post that effectively contradicts itself merely by the fact it was made in the first place. Very meta. Bravo.

      As for the argument at hand, more irony... some politico says "I wish people would stop calling them 'Polish Death Camps' when the Polish people had nothing to do with creating them or running them; there ought to be a law!"

      To which your response is that "He shouldn't be allowed to have that opinion, you know, to protect freedom of speech."

      Your head a splode!
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

    7. Re:Related to recent government measures by nbauman · · Score: 1

      Probably related to the recent measures proposed by the Polish government to criminalize the use of the phrase "Polish death camps".

      Finally somebody has the explanation.

    8. Re:Related to recent government measures by KGIII · · Score: 1

      I do not know the exact numbers and nobody does BUT it's not remiss to point out that quite a few POWs died at the hands of the USSR. The numbers for that vary quite a bit but you can see the general thoughts on that particular subject by clicking this:
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    9. Re:Related to recent government measures by KGIII · · Score: 1

      That's not really accurate. I forget the official's name but it was one lone government official (elected - probably not going to be in office after the upcoming elections) said that it should be against the law. As far as I know, it was never proposed as a law, never voted on, and mostly just pissed people off.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
  3. Nazis by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I'm of German decent - great grand parents came over in late 19th century - and my family had nothing to do with it. As a matter of fact, my family that styed behind were accused of being German "Trolls" according to the Nazis (couldn't say anything against them or the SA was on your ass), put my ancestors back in the "homeland" into concentration camps. Yeah, they helped Jews, Catholics, etc... and disagreed with the Nazis.

    1. Re:Nazis by Megol · · Score: 1

      The majority of national socialists were German. The whole idea behind nazism was the idea of the purity of German blood, the country was known as the national socialistic Germany at the time.

      Facts doesn't change because people are bothered by them.

  4. just apologize by phantomfive · · Score: 5, Informative

    It's a little disingenuous to blame Germany for it, because Polish mobs were killing the survivors from Auschwitz. The Jews didn't leave Poland because of the concentration camps, they left because Poland was trying to kill them.

    Poland should just apologize and move on. We all have done terrible things in the histories of our countries. No point trying to hide it.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    1. Re:just apologize by halivar · · Score: 1

      You have to factor in the fact that centuries of calculated ethnic cleansing had left large swaths of Poland as ethnically German, especially in the north, and it was these people who were the lion's share of Nazi sympathizers in the country. The Poles purged the Germans after WWII (itself a controversial act, but I digress); how much should they still have to answer for acts committed by former Poles of German descent, who were then exiled back to Germany?

    2. Re:just apologize by phantomfive · · Score: 1, Interesting

      In the US, we had concentration camps for Japanese, and they weren't nearly as bad as the death camps in Poland.

      I feel really bad about the concentration camps for the Japanese, even though I had nothing to do with them other than living in the same country 50 years later. If a Japanese person asks me, I will happily apologize. The concentration camps were a lousy thing to do, we shouldn't have done them.

      Same with the drop of the nuclear weapons. Even if you think it was better than the alternative, you can still say, "I'm sorry we did that, I wish it hadn't happened."

      Sometimes you just need to accept that things sucked back then and move on (ie, don't do it again).

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    3. Re:just apologize by phantomfive · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It's not a lie, Polish mobs were literally killing survivors of the concentration camps. See this for more detail.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    4. Re:just apologize by phantomfive · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It's a quantitative difference, not a qualitative difference. The Poles were really, really bad to the Jews. You can say the Poles weren't as bad as the Nazis, and that's true, but......

      Just apologize and move on. Really, it's easier.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    5. Re:just apologize by PopeRatzo · · Score: 3, Informative

      Sometimes you just need to accept that things sucked back then and move on (ie, don't do it again).

      Unfortunately, it does not appear that Poland learned its lesson, as we see by the rise of the authoritarian far-Right in Poland PiS party and the Nazi-like National Rebirth of Poland (Narodowe Odrodzenie Polski) Party. It is no accident that the criminalization of the phrase "Polish death camps" has come at this time. It's because there is a concerted effort in Poland to erase these camps from history.

      https://www.thejournal.ie/pola...

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    6. Re:just apologize by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      And also, so as a half Jew I should apologize for what exactly?

      Apologize for killing Christ. :)

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    7. Re:just apologize by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Yeah. If I had grown up in Israel, right now I would be saying something like, "Yeap, grandpa made the right decision leaving Poland."

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    8. Re:just apologize by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      mobs don't collaborate or not collaborate

    9. Re:just apologize by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      It's a little disingenuous to blame Germany for it, because Polish mobs were killing the survivors from Auschwitz.

      Yeah, it's totally disingenous to blame a country for carefully planned genocide that was sytematically executed as a part of that country's government's politics, as long as another country, one that happened to be occupied by the first one, had mobs of violent villagers. NOT.

      The Jews didn't leave Poland because of the concentration camps, they left because Poland was trying to kill them.

      The reason Holocaust took place mainly in Poland is that Poland was home to the largest and most significant Jewish community in the world. And the reason for that was that historically Poland had been literally *the* most tolerant country in Europe (first one to have statutory religious tolerance for Jewish communities and one that accepted Jews expelled from all over the continent). By the time war started, Jews were large and well intergrated part of Polish society. Does that mean there was no anti-semitism? Of course there was. There were also collaborators, opportunists, looters and all kind of scum, including mobs of villagers doing some disgusting things to their Jewish neighbors. That's a part of history Poland still had not completely settled with, but implying "trying to kill Jews" was some kind of Polish state's official agenda in an attempt to dilute Germans' responsibility for the Holocaust is a primitive manipulation. Also, what everyone seems to forget about, there was also a lot of Poles (not just Polish citizens of Jewish or Roma descent, but actual, "ethnic" Poles) that were killed in Nazi camps.

      No, I'm not a Pole, but I certainly understand why they get pissed.

    10. Re:just apologize by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Please mind your words. As a Polish person with Jewish roots, whose close family members were killed by the Nazis in Auschwitz, I say: apparently, you are misinformed.

      Irrespective of the polish antisemits from the times of before the war, of peasants murdering Jewish people (which totally happened), of people parasitising on Jews escaping the ghettos, death camps like Auschwitz were made by the Nazis. Polish were killed in Auschwitz as well as Polish of Jewish origin or Jewish people from other countries. These were German death camps. Polish in general and Polish individuals were never involved in that.

      At that time, the underground Polish army had a specialized unit, Zegota (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%BBegota) for aiding Jewish people. Polish soldiers such as Witold Pilecki [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witold_Pilecki] actually actively got themselves captured in order to witness and report on the Nazi crimes in the German death camps. Others, such as Jan Karski, tried to inform the Western powers (in especially, USA), but their reports were not believed [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Karski#Reporting_Nazi_atrocities_to_the_Western_Allies].

      Thus, implying that Polish had a hand in the concentration camps, implying -- like you did -- that Polish have to *apologize* for them is extremely offensive.

    11. Re:just apologize by phantomfive · · Score: 3, Informative

      Poland had been literally *the* most tolerant country in Europe

      OK, I'm going to assume you're sincere here, and not trolling. This is what tolerance looks like. This is what tolerance doesn't look like. The reality is Hitler didn't invent anti-semitism, he tapped into the existing strong current of anti-semitism and took advantage of it for his own purposes.

      By the time war started, Jews were large and well intergrated part of Polish society.

      Again, I don't know why you think that.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    12. Re:just apologize by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Thus, implying that Polish had a hand in the concentration camps, implying -- like you did -- that Polish have to *apologize* for them is extremely offensive.

      Would you prefer I say, "they should apologize for massacring the Jews." Would that somehow make it better?

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    13. Re:just apologize by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It's a quantitative difference, not a qualitative difference. The Poles were really, really bad to the Jews. You can say the Poles weren't as bad as the Nazis, and that's true, but......
       

      The cases where Polish people harm Jews were rare. At the same time "the citizens of Poland have the world's highest count of individuals who have been recognized by Yad Vashem as Righteous Among the Nations for saving Jews from extermination during the Holocaust in World War II." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_Righteous_Among_the_Nations).

    14. Re:just apologize by nbauman · · Score: 2

      My reading of the history http://www.abebooks.com/Notes-... of the time is that it's difficult to separate categories of people like "Jews," "Poles," "Germans," or even "Nazis" as all good or all bad.

      It seems that like most nationalities at the time, a minority of Poles helped the Jews, a minority of Poles killed the Jews, and the majority in the middle went where they were led. A lot of them formed alliances of convenience, with the Soviets or Polish nationalists, and a lot of them collaborated with the Nazis, based on cold calculations of what gave them the best chances of surviving the war.

      Ringelblum said that the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto hated the collaborators, Kohn and Heller, even more than the Germans.

      There was definitely a history of anti-Semitism and pogroms in Poland. There were also periods of uneasy tolerance and even acceptance. During the good times, the Polish Jews were quite successful.

      Even after WWII, there were some Jews who were quite influential in Polish society, like Marek Edelman and Helena WoliÅska-Brus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.... So tell me whether those Polish Jews themselves who survived the war were all good or all bad.

      I used to try to figure out which nations were good and which were bad. Now I realize that it's a complicated mixture, and I think that's a more satisfying answer.

    15. Re:just apologize by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      I used to try to figure out which nations were good and which were bad. Now I realize that it's a complicated mixture, and I think that's a more satisfying answer.

      Well said.. Each person makes their own choices, some good and some bad.
      That's why it's best to just apologize and not do it again in the future.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    16. Re:just apologize by nbauman · · Score: 1

      And also, so as a half Jew I should apologize for what exactly? Should the Polish part of me apologize to the Jew part of me?

      Your parents should be praised for their efforts at Jewish-Polish reconciliation.

    17. Re:just apologize by nbauman · · Score: 1

      Just one more thing. Science magazine had a special issue on human conflict.
      http://www.sciencemag.org/site...

      tldr: they reviewed everything science had to say about human conflict -- anthropology, evolutionary biology, psychology, etc. They came to 2 conclusions:

      1. Throughout all of human evolution, groups of people have had conflicts with other groups, and even extermination.

      2. Throughout all of human evolution, humans have followed conflict with reconciliation. Their prime example was South Africa.

    18. Re:just apologize by nbauman · · Score: 1

      The cases where Polish people harm Jews were rare.

      Much as I would like to believe that, because I grew up with a lot of Polish friends, it doesn't seem to be true. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      My response is, let the historians figure out what happened, when they do let's face the truth, and move on to forgiveness and reconciliation. http://forward.com/news/world/...

    19. Re:just apologize by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 1

      It's not a lie, Polish mobs were literally killing survivors of the concentration camps.

      Yes, you are correct. And these acts of violence are deplorable.

      Just to try to get a sense of the magnitude, from your link: "Jews constituted between 2% and 3% of the total number of victims of postwar violence in the country," and that number seems to come to 1000-2000 victims, according to your link.

      According to this, at the post-war peak, the Jewish population was somewhere around 180000-240000. Which means roughly 1% of the Jewish population suffered some form of attack during this period. Meanwhile, that same link notes the postwar population of Poland was about 24 million. That means the Jewish population was a little less than 1% of the overall population.

      Using these stats (that Jews suffered 2-3% of overall attacks), that means that they were roughly 2-4 times more likely to be attacked than other people in Poland.

      So, it's safe to say that Jewish people were targeted more than others. It's also safe to say that post-war Poland was a particularly violent and bad place to be (for everyone).

    20. Re:just apologize by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 1

      Just to be clear, when I said "suffered some form of attack," I was referring to the various types of programs, individual killings, etc. -- the "victims" I was referring to were generally killed.

      Also, I based my numbers on your link, but I was just trying to point out that lots of people were apparently being killed at this time. Jewish people were targets, undoubtedly, but it was a very violent era.

    21. Re:just apologize by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Nice data.
      It's worth mentioning that even if you only know two people who were killed because they were the same race (or religion) as you, that still creates an environment of fear, and can seriously affect you.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    22. Re:just apologize by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      including literature/poetry written in Polish, which I consider the ultimate indicator of damn good integration/assimilation

      It's really not......in America (and ancient Greece, and ancient Rome for that matter) we've had literature written by ex-slaves, while slavery was still going on. Integration doesn't mean what you think it does.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    23. Re:just apologize by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Look up Marcus Tullius Tiro. Uncultured beast that you are, even you may have heard of Aesop. For American slavery check out Frederick Douglass. A famous and great man.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    24. Re:just apologize by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Because slavery is not assimilation.

      Here's another example: in the late 1800s, Mahler was the head conductor of the Vienna orchestra, and extremely important cultural post. However Jews like him were absolutely NOT assimilated into culture at that time, and they were hated by a large section of the country.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    25. Re:just apologize by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      No.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    26. Re:just apologize by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      You ignore history: you refuse to acknowledge the cruelty inflicted on the Jewish people by the Poles.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    27. Re:just apologize by jandersen · · Score: 1

      It's a little disingenuous to blame Germany for it, because Polish mobs were killing the survivors from Auschwitz.

      I agree, to some extent. I think your wording highlights a fundamental problem in this kind of debate: people talk about "The Germans", "The Poles" or, indeed, "The Jews", as if they were a uniform mass, all equally responsible for whatever we want to blame them for. The reality is always much more complex than that - responsibility is always personal, individual, and I don't think anybody seriously questions the fact that most Germans were not in favour of the systematic mass extinction campaigns carried out by the Nazis. However, the same applies everywhere - talking about 'Polish Death Camps' may be meant as a shorthand for 'Nazi Death Camps in Poland', but I can easily understand why Polish people feel it is needlessly hurtful.

    28. Re:just apologize by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Not to defend a hateful racist policy, but the concentration camps the US built for people of Japanese descent were probably a lot better than the camps the name was coined for (in the Spanish-American and Boer wars), and far better than the German concentration camps, which in turn were far better to be in than the actual death camps, where the prisoners were actively massacred rather than being worked and starved.

      When I think of bad things the US did in that period, I tend to get more riled up about the treatment of the Native Americans, but that's probably a matter of taste.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    29. Re:just apologize by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      However, when a German kills a Jew because the German Government conscripts the German and orders him to kill Jews, the idea of individual responsibility gets pretty strained.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    30. Re:just apologize by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      When I think of bad things the US did in that period, I tend to get more riled up about the treatment of the Native Americans,

      That's kind of a different period, right?

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    31. Re:just apologize by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      No, it isn't a different period, and I was shocked to find that out. I had no idea we were being that inhumane to the Native Americans that late. (Not that the current treatment of them can be justified on any moral grounds, but it's improved a lot over the times of kidnapping Native American children, separating them from their own culture by beating them if they showed any sign of recalling it, and training them to be second-class citizens, which was done in the WWII period.)

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  5. Re:Revisionist history? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Revisionist history

    ALL history is revisionist. New documents are found. New sites are uncovered by archaeologists, farmers and earthquakes. And data science.

    See, a HUGE help has been document scanners and data science. Many of the church records in England have been digitized and the historians have been using that data - along with computer science - to discover new things about it's history.

    And as things are discovered in other areas, history is reinterpreted. To be a good historian, one must be familiar with computer science, biology, geology, mathematics, statistics, chemistry, economics, literature and just about every aspect of human thought.

  6. So, sed? by king+neckbeard · · Score: 2

    Why is sed and other software that can do substitutions inadequate here?

    --
    This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
  7. News from the future by the_skywise · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Today the government mandated that the Orwellian Plugin be a required built-in feature for all word processors, editing tools and key entry for public safety purposes.

    The Orwellian plugins are widely used to auto-correct incorrect thinking and terminology legally defined as hate speech and promotes a safer and more welcoming and open society.

    In other news chocolate rations are up...

    1. Re:News from the future by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      We are at war with Bullshitia.

      We've always been at war with Bullshitia.

      We'll always be at war with Bullshitia.

    2. Re:News from the future by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Got any evidence that any government is seriously consider mandating this?

      As far as I can tell, it's available on a voluntary basis, for an individual to use as a reminder. I don't intend to use it, because I can refer to Nazi death camps in Poland myself. It reminds me of grammar checkers. I am better at grammar than the checkers, but they sometimes point out places where I can improve my writing, so I sometimes pay attention to them. Whether or not I pay attention, each grammatical construct I use is my choice, even when it's a mistake based on a brain fart. It don't stop me form doing bad gramma, if I choose to use it.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  8. Like a SJW Clippy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Like a SJW Clippy. "I see you're trying to write about historical events. Would you like help contributing to the shame pornography that is post-war German culture?"

  9. Re: Revisionist history? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    From the example given in the article, it sounds more like "clarification" than "revision".

  10. Revisionist Bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Please install our memory hole on your computer so we can make it look like Europe had a long history of totally loving the Jews and making them feel welcome, until mean ole Hitler came along and was the first (and only) anti-Semite in European history.

    Europeans are fucking disgusting in their intellectual dishonesty.

  11. Software as Art by doconnor · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I wouldn't view this as software with a functional purpose, but rather as a political and social commentary in the form of software, rather then a speech or a painting. It doesn't help you achieve a task, but it does make you think about the issues involved.

    It's a very interesting idea.

    1. Re:Software as Art by paai · · Score: 2

      Everybody who is in the slightest interested in WWII and the holocaust will know that the Polish were virulent antisemites. Perhaps even worse than the predominantly european-oriented germans. I cannot imagine that this initiative will make history forget this.

      Paai

    2. Re:Software as Art by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      As compared to who, exactly? Name one country at the time and before that wasn't "virulently antisemetic" (and generally racist/nasty to people who weren't of their predominant culture/religion). If you're going to claim they were worse, especially pre-Nazi-occupation, then you'll have to do better than pretend that just a cursory Google search will prove that.

  12. Re:What's holocaust? by mitcheli · · Score: 4, Interesting

    As a person who has visited Dachau, my sincere condolences. As for the article, I would think a better way to approach this would be to address the educational material and reference material rather than implementing a revisionist methodology on individual people's thoughts. Seems rather big brother to me. Visiting Dachau and reading the history as it happened there was very eye opening to me. I was under the impression that the German government was a bunch of third world, unsophisticated neanderthals that allowed some megalomaniac take over and slowly build a war machine. ... This impression was very, very wrong. The German government at the time was very scientifically advanced, had a similar structure to what the US has today, and allowed a fair and open election that elected the megalomaniac into office. From there, they passed a law that allowed the "president" to override the congress in times of need. From there, the congress was disbanded, the constitution suspended, and within a month Dachau was opened. The Third Reich had risen. And to learn the passivity of the local population was shocking. People simply didn't care.

    --
    Select from tblFriends where interesting >= 4;
  13. Rewrite? Don't you mean correct? by drkoemans · · Score: 1

    From the summary, this sounds like a tool that corrects or adds additional clarity to an otherwise ambiguous phrase. The word "rewrite" almost always has a negative connotation associated with the intent of obfuscating fact. Not sure why the submitter chose to use such a loaded term. I suppose it's possible it was copied from TFA but who reads that?

    1. Re:Rewrite? Don't you mean correct? by Sowelu · · Score: 1

      Reading other comments above (and checking their Wikipedia links), I was surprised to see that this really is dangerous revisionism. There were some very bad and very Poland-specific things going on after the war.

    2. Re:Rewrite? Don't you mean correct? by drkoemans · · Score: 1

      Interesting. I stand corrected!

  14. trying to rewrite Polish history by ooloorie · · Score: 2, Insightful

    intended to catch and rewrite terms such as 'Polish death camps' and other phrases which associate the Polish people with the atrocities of the holocaust, rather than the occupying German forces which created and ran the death camps

    The trouble is: the Polish people were actually associated with the atrocities of the Holocaust. Antisemitism and oppression were common in Poland both before and after WWII. The main reason Poles didn't cooperate more with the Nazis was that the Nazis viewed them as racially inferior as well. So, whatever you call the death camps, Poland's own despicable history must not be forgotten.

    1. Re:trying to rewrite Polish history by Megol · · Score: 1

      No, one shouldn't try to hide history (though all countries try to spin it positive). But the Poles didn't make or run the extermination camps so correcting that isn't a problem.

    2. Re:trying to rewrite Polish history by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's still like saying that if the Japanese had occupied the Mariana Islands in WW2 and set up death camps, which the US then immediately burned down upon reconquering the islands, they could be legitimatedly referred to as 'American Death Camps.'

      --
      Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
    3. Re: trying to rewrite Polish history by ooloorie · · Score: 1
      The camps were and are objectively "Polish" camps, in the sense that anything ever was "Polish": they were in areas that belonged to Poland before annexation by Germany and were returned to Poland after the war. In different words, they were "Nazi Germany's Polish death camps". The term is a legitimate reference to their location, in contrast, to, "Nazi Germany's German death camps".

      Now, if Poland had a long history of tolerance, liberalism, and pacifism, you might argue that the term "Polish" refers not just to a geographic region, but also to a culture for which the crimes committed at Auschwitz are atypical. But Poland did not have such a history, hence there is no need to treat the term "Polish" as anything other than a geographical term.

      Having dealt with that issue, we can ask the question of: why are some groups in Poland trying to change language in this way? And the reason is plainly that they don't want to come to term with their own history of discrimination, intolerance, and violence. Observing that in no way draws an equivalence between the Nazi artrocities and Polish history. It just means pointing out that there are two wrongs, and one wrong shouldn't allow people to pretend the other didn't happen.

      Therefore, people should continue to refer to Auschwitz as one of "Nazi Germany's Polish death camps", leaving out the political qualifier "Nazi Germany's" when it is obvious from context. And, quite separately, Poland should be admonished to come to terms with its past instead of playing linguistic games.

    4. Re: trying to rewrite Polish history by KGIII · · Score: 1

      Yeah and if my aunt had a dick she'd be my uncle. You're reaching for something... Why not just say it instead of beating around the bush and attempting to make false equivalents?

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    5. Re:trying to rewrite Polish history by ooloorie · · Score: 2

      they could be legitimatedly referred to as 'American Death Camps.'

      The term "Polish death camps" is ambiguous; it could refer to the political entity or the geographic region. But since Poland didn't exist as a political entity at the time, it obviously has to refer to the geographic region. It's shorthand for "Polish death camps of the Nazi Regime" or "Nazi death camps in Poland". This is as much a tribute to the millions of Polish victims as it is a reminder to reflect on the relationship between Polish society and the death camps.

      Since the Mariana Islands are not geographically part of America and were not under US rule while the death camps operated there, there is no sense in which they could be referred to as the "American death camps". What they could be referred to is the "Mariana Island death camps", which is short for "Mariana Island death camps of Imperial Japan".

    6. Re:trying to rewrite Polish history by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 1

      Ok, so if the Nazis had set up death camps in conquered France, you could legitimately refer to them as 'French Death Camps?'

      They were Nazi Death Camps. Where they were was irrelevant. Much like Guantanamo Bay is an American Naval Base, despite being in Cuba.

      --
      Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
    7. Re:trying to rewrite Polish history by ooloorie · · Score: 1

      Ok, so if the Nazis had set up death camps in conquered France, you could legitimately refer to them as 'French Death Camps?'

      Yes, you could do so. Of course, it always depends on context. "French death camps" might refer to Nazi Germany's "death camps" in France, or it might refer to "death camps" established by the French government in their colonies. The fact that the phrase is legitimate doesn't mean it's always used correctly.

      Where they were was irrelevant.

      Where they were was quite relevant. The Polish concentration camps were dedicated to the extermination of Polish Jews and select Polish people, as opposed to the French or German concentration camps the Nazis had set up.

  15. Re:What's holocaust? by FakeStreet123 · · Score: 1, Informative

    I think you should reread the post you replied to, you might find an important logical inconsistency.

  16. Re:Revisionist history? by AK+Marc · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's not revisionist history. It's trying to change the descriptors of events. Camps in Poland were German camps, not Polish. The Poles weren't collaborators, but were subjugated. The Poles seem very concerned about the "true" history being lost, and the poor descriptions of events giving a false impression.

    Much like the secession states in the US Civil War seceded because of slavery as the primary reason, and hate of states rights as the second, though the current thought is the opposite of the second, and that the primary is a secondary or lower cause. One must be vigilant about how words are used if meaning is to be maintained over long terms.

  17. Re:What's holocaust? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 3, Informative

    The German government at the time was very scientifically advanced, had a similar structure to what the US has today, and allowed a fair and open election that elected the megalomaniac into office. From there, they passed a law that allowed the "president" to override the congress in times of need. From there, the congress was disbanded, the constitution suspended, and within a month Dachau was opened. The Third Reich had risen. And to learn the passivity of the local population was shocking. People simply didn't care.

    Trump 2016

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  18. Re:German game servers by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

    "I'm Clippy! Hello! Would you like to correct 'Polish death camp' to 'Nazi death camp' ?"

    (Yes)

    "Would you like to correct 'weren't such Nazi's about using the term Nazi' to 'weren't such Nazis '? "

    (Yes)

    "Would you like to correct 'grammar Nazis' to 'grammar SJWs' ?"

    --
    (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
  19. Don't blame the Holocaust on Poland by Prien715 · · Score: 2, Informative

    Poland had more holocaust victims than any other country with around 2 million of the victims being ethnic Poles. Poland is also number one in Righteous Among the Nations (awarded by Israel for saving Jews during the Holocaust). Basically, Poland was damn proud to be a Democratic state where you could practice whatever religion you wanted which attracted the largest Jewish population of Europe and earned the ire of Germany. A couple right-wing nutters no more represents Poland than Cliven Bundy represents Americans. /., you're better than to present the Polish as a people who cooperated with Germany during the Holocaust -- a view the victims don't share either.

    --
    -- Political fascism requires a Fuhrer.
  20. Re:Correction Correction by AK+Marc · · Score: 2

    Because NAZI was a German party run by Germans and voted into power by Germans?

  21. Re:What's holocaust? by Sax+Russell+5449D29A · · Score: 1

    As a person who has visited Dachau, my sincere condolences

    You made my day, dear Sir. :-)

    --
    -SR
  22. Re:What's holocaust? by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 5, Informative

    >> grandparents died...when they were six

    Not to be an asshole, but I think we're getting whooshed. How did your grandparents have kids if they were six?

  23. Re:Does it fix anything else? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

    Does it also fix the ridiculously overblown 6000000 figure that is still quoted even though the number of people killed at each death camp has been reduced by orders of magnitude?

    Note to new Slashdot management: Can you put out the roach motels again? There appears to be another infestation.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  24. You are American not Geman by drnb · · Score: 1

    While the majority of Germans may not have been Nazi party members the Nazis were given power by the German people in free and open elections. The German people can not wash their hands of the Nazis through a lack of party membership.

    And you are not German, you and several generations of your ancestors are Americans.

    When my great-uncles went to fight in Europe they were half serious when they joked that they hope they don't shoot any relatives. Being related did not make them think of themselves as Germans rather than Americans.

    1. Re:You are American not Geman by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      the Nazis were given power by the German people in free and open elections.

      I'm not as sanguine about the fairness of the elections as you seem to be, and the most the elections ever gave the Nazis was to be the second-biggest party in the Reichstag. While that is giving them a great deal of power, it did not enable the Nazis to take over. The final election was something of a backslide for the Nazis.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  25. Re:What's holocaust? by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

    "Trump 2016"

    Warning sign: if we hear of Trump hiring JJ Abrams to film his next big rally.

  26. Re:What's holocaust? by Jonah+Hex · · Score: 1

    Time travel, natch!

  27. wut by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I've noticed there has been a constant increase of people and media reminding people that the Holocaust happened in the past few years.
    It's parallel to the growing war crimes and crimes against Humanity that Israel has been pulling off in that region, in addition to the racism against black people who even had to stage protests. As if, what is pretty much ancient history now, excuses the shit they are pulling in the present.
    Of course, the justification for deporting blacks rather than giving them asylum is truly worthy of a Nazi victim that has learned well from its ancient oppressor:
    "Keeping the Jewish nation pure, because Jews are special and it's called 'Patriotism', not 'Nazism' ", when they are pulling the same shit Nazis did.

    You'd think Gypsies, Slavs and Homosexuals never existed during the Holocauster. Jews get more priority in being mentioned.

    And yet, the whole world hates Jews yet again despite all this social-engineering and despite WW2, as evidenced by the world just about having enough of Israeli bullshit and recognizing Palestine. I do wonder why.

  28. Re:What's holocaust? by x0ra · · Score: 1

    How could your grandparents died when they were 6, yet be your grandparents ? They obviously didn't have time to procreate...

  29. Re:Revisionist history? by x0ra · · Score: 1

    Revisionism comes into play when a government try to enforce history by law.

  30. Re:What's holocaust? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Sounds like Obama, actually.. narcissistic, and writing executive order after executive order (or memo) to bypass Congress. I'm genuinely surprised he didn't try to get a 3rd term somehow, but it ain't over yet.

  31. Re:What's holocaust? by AvitarX · · Score: 2

    Hitler wasn't elected to president, is supporters forced him to be appointed Chancellor, and then increased the Chancellor's power.

    Hindenburg won the run-off, the Nazi's did win a plurality in parliament while government still functioned.

    --
    Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
  32. Re:What's holocaust? by bdh · · Score: 1

    When they were six, or when you were six?

    If the latter, my sympathies.

    If the former, there's a logical problem with people becoming parents at age six.

  33. Re:Obama's method is superior. by vel-ex-tech · · Score: 2

    First amendment? Gay marriage. Suspended. Check.

    I think you're a bit premature here. Please double check item 23b section iii on the Agenda. We haven't succeeded until heterosexual marriage is illegal!

  34. Re:Obama's method is superior. by mitcheli · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I get that this is turning into a political debate that is taking staunch political lines between republican (foxnews) and democrat (msnbc) ideologies. And that is unfortunate. That division of ideology is exactly why Trump is doing so well. And that ideology is blind to the fact that it really doesn't matter which political party you align with, the damage come just the same. The Patriot Act, and many of the other political issues that are raised here on Slashdot are bi-partisan. Yes, that means it doesn't matter which soda you choose, both coke and pepsi have a crap ton of sugar in them that will make you fat. Let's shift focus back to the original point of the article and away from whether Obama or Trump or Bush or who the heck ever would be qualified as worse president ever. Let's start picking better presidents and better legislators. Not what Fox or MSNBC says we should pick, who are they to decide what's right for us?

    --
    Select from tblFriends where interesting >= 4;
  35. Re:What's holocaust? by vel-ex-tech · · Score: 1

    Ach, don't compare Abrams to Riefenstahl!

    All though an Abrams production of a Trump rally would be hilarious. I can see the lens flares now. Snap zoom to Trump's hair!

  36. Re:What's holocaust? by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 3, Funny

    My grandparents died in the Holocaust when they were six. Show some respect.

    How did people that died at 6, which is well prior to the age at which homo sapiens achieves sexual maturity, become your grandparents? How did the child of these miraculous 6 year old parents survive, or was it born to them at 3 and didn't get taken to the camp?

    Nazi experiments. :-)

    --
    "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
  37. Will it rewrite "Guantanamo Bay Internment Facilit by mbeckman · · Score: 2

    Well, will it?

  38. Ask anyone what did the jews thought about Poland by Nicopa · · Score: 2

    I'm the grandson of Polish jews that came to Argentina. Everybody knows, I've heard that from my family a dozen times, that the Poles were mostly antisemitic, they happily joined the nazis and they even happily stole the property of the escaping jews. I've heard that some people coming here at the time burned their Polish papers because of that. And now this museum is focused in some chauvinist correction than in remembering the real horrors of the time.

  39. Doesn't surprise me people don't believe it. by p51d007 · · Score: 2

    Considering the state of education in the world, how there are millions of people that don't believe the attempted extermination of the Jewish people happened, it wouldn't surprise me that people would try to hold the Polish people responsible, for the death and destruction at the hands of the Nazi party. During the end of the war in 1945, General Dwight D. Eisenhower forced the German people to clean up and bury those in the death camps, and had the worlds journalist document all the death inside those camps. When asked why, he responded "because there will come a day, that the people of the world will not believe the events that happened". By photographing, and documenting this, no matter what people say, there is hard evidence, that the holocaust did in fact happen, at the hands of the Nazi's.

  40. Re:Obama's method is superior. by kwbauer · · Score: 1

    You mean like the bogus claims by leftists that Republicans were running the South and created all the Jim Crow laws and that it was Democrats who went down there to protest against the Republican Governor Wallace and that Sen. Byrd was never in the KKK until they all of a sudden remember that he was completely reformed?

    Is that the re-writing you are claiming is happening? Or maybe the rewriting that makes the claim that not one single person ever mentioned the 2nd amendment applying to individual private citizens until the NRA fabricated the story somewhere in the 1980s? It really does not take very long to prove that many of the Founding Fathers were under the impression that every one of the rights mentioned in the Bill of Rights applies to private individuals.

  41. Re:What's holocaust? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2

    Ach, don't compare Abrams to Riefenstahl!

    Yes. At least Riefenstahl knew how to make a decent film.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  42. Re:What's holocaust? by mjwx · · Score: 3, Informative

    This impression was very, very wrong. The German government at the time was very scientifically advanced, had a similar structure to what the US has today, and allowed a fair and open election that elected the megalomaniac into office.

    This isn't strictly true.

    Hitler was not elected fairly per se, during elections in the late 20's the Sturmabteilung (SA or Brown Shirts) stood over elections in many parts of Germany to ensure enough votes were cast for the Nazi party. This was enough to make the Nazi's the second largest party in parliament, giving them enough numbers to cripple it with repeated walkouts until Hitler was given what he wanted by the president, Paul Von Hindenburg. What Hitler wanted was to be given the position or Reich Chancellor. After being given the Chancellors position in 1933 Hitler dissolved the Reichstag (the lower house, similar to the US Congress) and forced general elections. During this time the SA standover men were everywhere in Germany. Hitler also passed laws limiting the freedom of the press at this time. After the Reichstag Fire Decree, civil liberties were severely curtailed.

    After this, the Nazi's stormtroopers, the Sturmabteilung were openly operating in Germany virtually unopposed, enforcing boycots against Jewish business and the like. When Paul Von Hindenburg died in office in 1934, Hitler organised a plebiscite to combine the office of the Chancellor with the office of the President, this passed with a 90% yes vote but this is mainly due to the standover tactics employed by the SA and the Nazis. Hitlers rise to power was a very long and often violent subversion of democracy. Its a bit of a misnomer to say he was legitimately elected.

    As several bills had passed the Reichstag in 1933, laws were able to be made by the Reich Chancellor without the involvement of the Reichstag, Hitler who was now both president and chancellor held absolute power. At this point Hitler also had control of the limited army in Weimar Germany, so a military coup was also out of the question. He began the process of folding the SA into the army (culminating with the assassination of Ernst Rohm, leader of the SA).

    I dont think the US is at this level just yet.

    --
    Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  43. Re:Ask anyone what did the jews thought about Pola by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 1

    I'm the grandson of Polish jews that came to Argentina. Everybody knows, I've heard that from my family a dozen times, that the Poles were mostly antisemitic, they happily joined the nazis and they even happily stole the property of the escaping jews. I've heard that some people coming here at the time burned their Polish papers because of that.

    As with all such generalizations about a group of people, it's complicated. For many centuries, Poland was the home to the largest Jewish community in Europe because of their policy toward religious tolerance. That changed with the partitions of Poland, where imperial powers (e.g., Russia) started targeting Jews.

    And if you read that article (which is very long), you'll see what was going on in the first half of the 20th century was complicated too. Poland was still home to the largest Jewish community in Europe at that time, and many Jewish people were highly respected. But anti-Semitism was on the rise again in many countries, including Poland.

    My condolences to your family, who must have suffered terribly. But on the whole, it's not clear that Polish people were significantly more anti-Semitic than the rest of Europe at this time.

    And now this museum is focused in some chauvinist correction than in remembering the real horrors of the time.

    I absolutely agree that the horrors should NOT be ignored. On the other hand, well... there's this. As you'll learn there, not only did Polish people likely save a half-million or more Jewish lives during that time, but these Polish people were victims of numerous massacres when they were punished for trying to protect Jews -- estimates are that up to 50,000 Polish people lost their lives just trying to do this.

    So, yeah -- were there bad Poles who betrayed Jews the Nazis, etc.? Of course. Were there also ones who helped Jewish people at the risk of their own lives? Yeah, a lot of those too.

    History is complicated, and little good generally comes from stereotyping or vilifying an entire group of people. Hopefully the irony here is not lost.

  44. What about Armenians? by jmv · · Score: 1

    I'd really like to see the Armenian version of that software. In France, it's a criminal offense to deny the Armenian genocide, while in Turkey it's a criminal offense to say there was an Armenian genocide. Isn't it nice?

    1. Re:What about Armenians? by Richard_at_work · · Score: 1

      The problem with the Armenian genocide is that most modern accounts of it ascribe blame to Turkey, which didn't exist at the time of the genocide - Turkey as we know it fought a war of independence against the former Ottoman Empire, which ruled what we today call Turkey up until its defeat at the end of WW1, upon which it was partitioned and occupied by the Allies.

      The war of independence ended the sultanate which had ruled the Ottoman Empire and the partitioned states for hundreds of years - it was replaced with a completely different governmental structure.

      That is why Turkey is so against the current stance of people around the Armenian genocide - its somewhat akin to blaming the current US state for actions carried out by the British state before the war of independence...

  45. Re:What's holocaust? by BoogieChile · · Score: 2

    But where were the survivors buried?

  46. Re:Does it fix anything else? by KGIII · · Score: 1

    Well... This is a lovely place to be in.

    No, I do not disbelieve the stated numbers. No, I am not racist.

    But, nothing that person said is indicative of any racist beliefs. You do not have to be racist to disbelieve the stats.

    In short, you're an idiot. They *might* be racist. They've given you no reason to believe they're racist. You reached that conclusion on your own and without evidence. I'd suggest that such makes you more prejudicial than the other person has given us cause to believe they are.

    --
    "So long and thanks for all the fish."
  47. Re:Revisionist history? by davester666 · · Score: 1

    These are not the Polish collaborators you are looking for.

    --
    Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
  48. Re:What's holocaust? by packrat0x · · Score: 1

    Hitler was appointed, not elected.

    --
    227-3517
  49. Re:What's holocaust? by mitcheli · · Score: 1

    I don't think the US is at the level where Congress is being nullified, but that's not to say that it can't be. Congress is at the level where it's passing laws that "bend" the rules of the Constitution, both Republicans and Democrats are quick to point out instances where such bending impedes their unique sensibilities. Civil Rights organizations are quick to point this out as well. I did simplify my explanation of the history to fit in the 5 minute write up. But you're right, there is more to it. But the point was, it was fast. And the take over was targeted against a similar form of government to what the US has. I believe the law in question that was passed was called "The Enabling Act" which enabled Hitler to circumvent the Reichstag. But that's not saying that a President and Congress who are of the same party can't could push other similar legislation in the US. The three houses of Government are only effective at preventing hostile take overs such as what happened in Germany when the checks and balances between each other are respected.

    --
    Select from tblFriends where interesting >= 4;
  50. Re:wut - bloody troll by bstarrfield · · Score: 1

    There's more mention of the Holocaust now as the remaining survivors pass away. The people who were actually in the concentration camps will soon be no more, and the events that they suffered must be remembered.

    I suppose that your reference to blacks being deported refers to the economic migrants who cross the Israeli-Egyptian border. They are provided housing, health care, food - but they are not wanted in this country. They bring no skills, have no affinity for the culture, and as a group are simply trying to find the first first world country that they can move to. You may also pay attention to the large immigration of Ethiopian Jews who are successfully integrating into Israeli society.

    Your insinuation that Israel is equivalent to Nazi Germany is beyond the pale of rational thought. There are no death camps; there are no death marches; there is the reality that 20% of Israel's voters are Arab.

    Israel was founded to be a Jewish state, after literally a thousand years of anti-Semitism in Europe and the Arab world. It's not a case of keeping the Jewish people "pure", it's a case of keeping the Jewish people alive. And after over six million Jews were murdered in a few short years, I think we have a compelling argument for having our own safe and secure state.

    You should know that I'm very left wing - I want the Palestinians to have a state, and I live less than eight miles from the West Bank. Given how the Palestinians have handled Gaza and how Hezbollah has handled South Lebanon, you may understand if enthusiasm for that idea is not high amongst the Israeli populace.

    The whole world hates Jews? Are you speaking for yourself anonymous coward or do you have any real evidence? And if you hate Israel and Jews so much, you should almost certainly throw out the computer your spreading your vile with, as it's CPU was designed here by evil Jews.

    --
    /* Dang, I can't type that well. */
  51. Re:Obama's method is superior. by david_thornley · · Score: 1

    First amendment? Because the government won't support religious objections on who gets to file jointly and who's next-of-kin any more? Religious freedom means that you get to forbid anything offensive to your religion. It means that your religious group can make its own internal rules and can't order others about.

    Second amendment? Do you realize when that died? Do you realize who was President when the right to go out and by a modern military rifle was taken away? That leftist loon, Reagan. If the "well-regulated milita" clause means anything, it means that the Second is talking about military arms. Banning some guns because they look scary while not banning other, more or less equivalent, guns, which is about the looniest thing the Left did about gun control, is trivial compared to that.

    I haven't seen many Third Amendment cases go by, but, moving on, do you realize which leftist loon President got civil forfeiture ramped up to what I consider unconstitutional levels? Reagan again. There have been lefties in favor of it and righties against it, but Reagan and the Republicans started us on the path.

    --
    "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  52. Re:What's holocaust? by david_thornley · · Score: 1

    I think that calling Hitler elected in a free and fair election is either ignorant or deceptive, myself.

    It's also worth considering the political environment. The US Government is one of the oldest in the world, with a strong tradition of individual rights. The Weimar Republic was not really popular, being the Germans' first real attempt at a democratic republic, and with large parties on the left and right that wanted to change it drastically. The right wing had been attacking it for a long time, as part of a plan to avoid admitting they lost the Great War fair and square.

    The Reichstag could pass the Enabling Act, and other laws that ended the Republic, going far beyond what the US Congress and US President can do. The US courts are accustomed to slapping down the other branches of government as needed.

    The US is very far from being as susceptible to totalitarian rule as 1933 Germany was.

    --
    "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  53. Re:Jews? Holocaust? by david_thornley · · Score: 1

    The Hungarians were actually pretty good about protecting Jews, perhaps the best of the German allies after Finland. The burst of Auschwitz activity in 1944 came as the Germans overthrew the Hungarian government and installed a puppet government, which still didn't cooperate fully in shipping off Hungarian Jews.

    If you ever see an argument about bombing Auschwitz, it's about trying to save those Jews.

    --
    "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  54. Re:What's holocaust? by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

    The Holocaust or Shoah which the Israelis (some of whom are Jews, but there are also non-Jewish Israelis) are perpetrating upon the Palestinians (some of whom are Muslims, but there are also non-Muslim Palestinians). There's also a historical reference, but that's an active Holocaust at the moment.

    --
    Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
  55. Re:Obama's method is superior. by beastofburdon · · Score: 1

    And then the mindless followers on both sides completely miss the fact that they are merely two faces of the same party.

  56. Re:What's holocaust? by MoarSauce123 · · Score: 1

    The holocaust is the death of millions and a historical event denied by dimwitted right-winged fools like you. It is quite remarkable how dumb some people are!

  57. Re:What's holocaust? by MoarSauce123 · · Score: 1

    Obama could do without executive orders if the Republican Congress would start doing its job! All they do is stall and say "No" to everything. Someone needs to keep things going.

  58. Re:Obama's method is superior. by MoarSauce123 · · Score: 1

    What does gay marriage have to do with the first amendment? If anything, the pseudoreligious propaganda from the rightwingers is what goes against the first amendment. The second amendment was adopted before machine guns were invented and incredibly accurate firearms were mass produced. I'd be fine with keeping the 2nd Amendment if all that can be sold and carried are muzzle loaded muskets and folks have to cast their own lead bullets. The fact that times have changed is completely ignored by rightist loons like Scalia.

  59. Re:Obama's method is superior. by MoarSauce123 · · Score: 1

    Huh? Trump is in the right extremist (Fox News) camp up to his hair. The only one who is even worse is christian terrorist Cruz.