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Surveillance Culture Brought To the Masses, Courtesy of Verizon (consumerist.com)
kheldan writes: Verizon is now offering a way to secretly track your family members' whereabouts and driving habits with your smartphone: "Do you have a teen driver in your household and want to know every time they get a little overzealous with the accelerator? Or maybe you're pretty sure your spouse's frequent trips to 'the office' are not so innocent? If so, then an upcoming update for Verizon's 'hum' in-car smart device might be just what you're looking for.' The new 'features' added will allow you to receive alerts if the target vehicle leaves a predetermined area, drives faster than a preset level, its location, and keeps a history of all the above for later review.
We already lost the battle; Verizon already has this data. The consumer might as well 'benefit' from it too. Cat isn't going back in the bag.
You thought Microsoft was evil? You thought Google was evil? Nope! Verizon wins going away. Spy on your family, because showing how little you trust your own spouse or kid is just so great for your relationship with them and/or their development as a human being!
Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
My kid is approaching driving age and frankly I'd love to know that he's doing what he says he's going to do with *my* car. It's the classic, "trust, but verify" situation.
All of which will be legally accessible by the government, without warrant as it will be business records of Verizon.
And, of course, your divorce lawyer will be able to subpoena it.
And if you get into an accident it will get called in to make sure you weren't at the bar.
Anybody signing up for this should recognize just how stupid this is, and just how much this is going to be accessible to everybody who demands it.
Yet another bit of the connected society I would never want any part of. Signing yourself up to this is basically going to allow dozens of other parties to be able to know everything you do.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
It's all coming together, nice and neat. Do they bother putting a real 'off' button on phones anymore? Since you can't remove the battery, how do you know?
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
I guess I won't need the radio tracking collars I was going to order.
In the USA, we like stuff watered down, like beer, television, and freedom.
From talking to many of my co-workers who have teenage children, apparently no, you don't really want to know. You think you want to know, but if you knew better, you'd rather be ignorant of that. This comes from one co-worker expressing interest in something like this and everybody chiming in that he really didn't want to know and how ignorance really was bliss.
And I'm sure that when you were a teen you never did anything that would upset your parents when they weren't watching you. Be careful what you wish for. Your actions now may cause your kid to distrust you for the rest of his life.
At the very least, if I knew I was being watched while I drove the car, I would just have a friend come pick me up. If you decided to track my cell phone, the next time you did it I would just leave my phone at home. Done, now you can't track my habits, you don't know where I am, AND you can't reach me.
Have fun with that.
Have you ever met a teenager?
Because, my recollection of being one is everything you said is utterly false.
Part of being a teenager, apparently, is finding your own stupid things to do, regardless of what parents have done.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
One for the wife, one for the GF!
Hyundai made similar "features" available for my Elantra via my BlueLink subscription since 2012 (see also http://m.hyundaiusa.com/technology/bluelink/features/vehicle-safeguard.html) and monitor by App, text, or email. I'm sure most car manufacturers have followed suit by now.
You actually don't know anything about me, and yet you feel compelled to pass the most hideous of judgments. By comparison, I'm willing to surrender a 2-ton object capable of reaching very dangerous speeds to an inexperienced driver while not personally in attendance. I fail to see how I'm failing as a parent in asserting what responsibility I can into the situation.
LOL, a teenager, leaving their phone at home? That's hilarious.
Oh, and this is an in-car device as I read TFA ... this isn't bugging the kid's phone, it's bugging the entire car.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
That's a feature of Where's My Droid. The app also has several other features found on iPhones; including the remote wipe. Free on the play store for the ad supported version. Pro version has more features unlocked and no ads.
Interesting comment thread.
So none of you were trusted at all by your parents when you were teenagers? Watched constantly? Did they respect you at all, or were you treated like a little criminal until you were 18, then, what, kicked out of the house? That's what some of your comments are leading me to believe.
Trust and respect are important when raising children. How are they going to trust and respect you, if you don't lead by example by trusting and respecting them? More to the point: If you didn't raise them in such a way that you can trust and respect them, then who's really at fault here? Other parents I know don't feel the need to put their teenage kids on a leash like this, and they don't get in any trouble, either, and before you say 'as far as they KNOW', it's evident from their grades in school (good) and the way they conduct themselves. Are they perfect? Of course not. But how is being 'helicopter parents' and never trusting them a good thing? Seriously, what kind of adults are they going to be when brought up in an environment like that? If you can't trust your son or daughter to be responsible when driving, then maybe you shouldn't let them drive in the first place. I think the old time-tested rule of 'get a ticket, you don't get to drive for a while' is more than adequate. We're all already surveilled everywhere we go these days, why bring it into our homes, too? Honestly, where does it end? Or are you all so thoroughly indoctrinated that being treated like a criminal and watched 24/7/365 is now 'normal' for you? If so then I mourn.
Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
You thought Microsoft was evil? You thought Google was evil? Nope! Verizon wins going away.
You say that as if they were mutually exclusive...
So, purely to play Devil's advocate ... if you have a car loan, is your bank entitled to monitor you?
Is your spouse always entitled to monitor you?
What about the police? Because, after all, there are legal implications if you hurt someone.
How far do we extend the list of people who should allowed to spy on you? I'm curious? Are you advocating all forms of surveillance, or just when you do it?
Because the surveillance society is exactly this.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Why dont you make him pee in a cup and wear a bodycam while you are at it... P.S im a dad that had all the tools to track my teenager, but didnt because thats not the kind of human i want to raise. Liberty includes the room to fuck up. Think about this before becoming his personal Stasi.
Good-bye
All Android phones have this. Yes, the phone still rings if the phone is on mute.
https://www.google.com/android...
Is your kid's use of this app with or without their consent? If you negotiate "I will let you use my car under the condition that you run this app so I can find out where you are in an emergency" and the kid agrees to the condition, that seems fine in my opinion. If you secretly put this app on their phone, I think the kid would be right to feel angry about your lack of trust in them when they find out.
Interesting comment thread.
So none of you were trusted at all by your parents when you were teenagers? Watched constantly? Did they respect you at all, or were you treated like a little criminal until you were 18, then, what, kicked out of the house? That's what some of your comments are leading me to believe.
Trust and respect are important when raising children. How are they going to trust and respect you, if you don't lead by example by trusting and respecting them? More to the point: If you didn't raise them in such a way that you can trust and respect them, then who's really at fault here? Other parents I know don't feel the need to put their teenage kids on a leash like this, and they don't get in any trouble, either, and before you say 'as far as they KNOW', it's evident from their grades in school (good) and the way they conduct themselves. Are they perfect? Of course not. But how is being 'helicopter parents' and never trusting them a good thing? Seriously, what kind of adults are they going to be when brought up in an environment like that? If you can't trust your son or daughter to be responsible when driving, then maybe you shouldn't let them drive in the first place. I think the old time-tested rule of 'get a ticket, you don't get to drive for a while' is more than adequate. We're all already surveilled everywhere we go these days, why bring it into our homes, too? Honestly, where does it end? Or are you all so thoroughly indoctrinated that being treated like a criminal and watched 24/7/365 is now 'normal' for you? If so then I mourn.
I agree with you, but this is also a case of where do you draw the lines.
Phone tracking? oh, hell no. I'd never do that to my kids.
Speed tracking on the car? That one is a good idea, because now we're talking about avoiding death and crippling - irreversible mistakes.
But in no way would I do secret tracking. That is an insult and borderline evil. If we put it on their car, then I'll put it on my car just to be fair.
Tell them it's on and why. It's just part of the deal of driving in my family.
If professional drivers can live with these devices, then so can the teenagers.
Yes, being a stupid rebellious little shit is an integral part of maturing. It shouldn't be taken as a sign of poor parenting, but it should be allowed to exist.
How different would you be, now an adult, if you were monitored 24/7 by the average helicopter parent of today with this level of surveillance? Do you believe it would have improved the result?
This signature is false.
If professional drivers can live with these devices, then so can the teenagers.
Interestingly enough, I have a long-time friend who has been driving trucks his entire professional life. He's driven for companies like Arco/BP, who put GPS, cameras, and microphones inside the cab, for review of driver conduct and safety. He hates it, every other driver hates it, because you can't say anything while driving without them knowing about it, and anything you say, regardless of context, regardless of the true intent (as opposed to their interpretation, or their intent) can get you fired. Even an expression on your face (again, regardless of context) can get you fired. It's not a good thing. It raises drivers' stress levels to the breaking point, because regardless of their driving record, regardless of their productivity, they can be fired for mumbling something under their breath or just having a look on their face that has nothing to do with their driving the truck. The turnover rate is high. After a relatively young age, people just don't like or want to be watched all the time. In the context of this story I can't see it being a good thing for a kid's development into an adult to know they're being watched (i.e., not trusted at all) constantly, and surveilling them covertly all the time is just plain creepy. I don't think it's a good trend for society, either.
Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
I grew up with no surviving pictures of me and a skull bong, my parents didn't always know where I was as a teen, and I've always driven fast.....but hey at least back then I was able to be more independent, make mistakes, learn from them and grow up without feeling like I had to have Mommy and Daddy watching my every move......
I'm glad I got to be what used to be a 'traditional' teenage part of my life.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
You don't need to actively monitor. Just the knowledge that the monitoring exists will (hopefully) affect the risk/reward calculations just enough to keep the stupidity to a dull roar.
they can be fired for mumbling something under their breath or just having a look on their face
As stupid as that sounds, I'd still like to see a website full of screenshots of truck drivers making expressions that got them fired.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
When you deal with somebody every day, you can tell that something is wrong.
Obviously you've never had a parent with Alzheimer's. You're lucky.
>"You don't need to actively monitor. Just the knowledge that the monitoring exists will (hopefully) affect the risk/reward calculations just enough to keep the stupidity to a dull roar."
And what you end up with are people growing up with no real morals. They do the "right" thing only BECAUSE they think they are being watched. So what do they do when they think they are not being watched (and really not being watched)? It also brings up another generation believing that this new, even more invasive level of monitoring of their lives is "normal" and "acceptable." And the later backlash and revolt might be even stronger than ever seen.
Plus, if you watch someone all the time, you will ALWAYS find something they did "wrong". It is an extremely slippery slope and dangerous path our so-called "free" society is taking with all this never-ending monitoring, spying, and recording of people and what they do.
How is it attached to the car? Well, let me do the research about the Verizon Hum device that you don't want to do, and I'll tell you.
It plugs into the car's ODB-II port, and it also includes a bluetooth speaker that you can pair with your phone that has some buttons to do things like calling for help.
Cars these days don't have phones in them, they just use your phone's Bluetooth connection to access the internet. There's a good reason for this: if they had their own cellular data connection, you'd have to pay a hefty per-month service fee for that. By using your phone, you avoid that.
You know what probably does have its own cellular data connection? A $15/month service from Verizon.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
I'll chime in... First, kids are pretty resilient so it's unlikely that they're going to end up "messed up." However, I might have done something like this - with their knowledge and if I felt that it was necessary. I can't rule it out and I don't see any reason to be dishonest with you or with myself. However, I'd have never considered putting it in their vehicle. Ever.
So, it's almost meaningless as my two kids had earned their own cars by the time they were old enough to drive. No, not given a car. I might have a couple of dollars but I will not have irresponsible kids. They earned their vehicles. I did, later, give my son one of my old cars and I've since bought my daughter a new car (quite recently, actually) but they paid for their first cars with money they earned. I felt that was important at the time, I still feel comfortable with that choice.
That said, I didn't make it a habit to go through their stuff and things like that. Each one of 'em had a rather large safe in their room. It was theirs and I was not allowed in it. I had neither key nor combination. Anything not in that safe, I was privy to access at any time I wanted. I'd have told them if I were going to do so or if I had done so. I imagine I'd have given them the chance to come clean before I went through their room. They know I worked as an Escort/Chaser in a detention facility so they probably would have just assumed I'd find it and then come clean.
However, I never actually searched their rooms really. At least not that I can recall. I did go in and retrieve my missing stuff that they'd "borrowed." I did go in and check various things like windows being closed and whatnot. Mostly, the kids were pretty good. They kept their shit cleaned up, did their own laundry, split the chores, and behaved like reasonable kids. They had their faults, and still do, but they're mostly good people.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
Wow. I wonder how our parents dealt with stuff like this when all the phones had wires. Maybe they just followed the wires back to the car.
Are we really that mentally different now and cannot remember where we parked?
We've got much bigger parking lots and a lot less diversity in cars now. That and we're old, did a lot of drugs, and can't remember shit.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."