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Neuroscientists Detail How Humans Are Able To Hurt Others When Given Orders (universityherald.com)
Ever wonder how seemingly normal people were able to become Nazis and commit such atrocities? A team of neuroscientists studied just that, following the Milgram experiment conducted in the 1960s. Published in the journal Current Biology, this new study explains that "some basic feeling of responsibility really is reduced when we are coerced into doing something." The results indicate that humans are able to hurt each other when given orders.
No details, and it's 2016, shouldn't that brain be liquid cooled?
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
Ever wonder how seemingly normal people were able to become Nazis and commit such atrocities?
They were just trying to make Germany great again.
The Devil made me do it...
"Imagination is more important than knowledge" - Einstein
Nice try, Pal.
Occupy Wall Street wasn't exactly non-violent, nor the BLM nonsense.
Why are the examples always nazis? How about "Ever wonder how seemingly normal people were able to become communists and commit such atrocities?" The communists killed far more than nazis.
At least OWS succeeded in their goals of having a voice and raising awareness.
That's why "The man who passes the sentence should swing the sword"
Does this explain radical left wing communists?
And if you read SS interviews and books it was also that when you showed up and people were naked and being beaten and hit everyday you became indifferent to it and then became one of the guys doing it. Remember, jews weren't killed at camps in the beginning right away in lots of places, they were used as labor, and detained, and as it went forward it got worse. The living conditions worsened over time as well. It's not like an SS guy went from walking on the street, to signing up for the SS and to murdering jews in a week.
I think this is more explained by the Stanley Milgram studies than anything else
This explains Republicans and Democrats. They both contributed to economic warfare against the middle class and no one seems to care as long as there are social programs for the rich and social programs for the poor. We all let it happen because the government said it was ok.
I remember seeing that experiment where someone sat at a console and was giving someone progressively higher-voltage shocks (the Milgram Experiment) at the orders of an 'authority figure'. I know that there's no way in hell I'd go along with such a thing, and in fact I'd probably turn on the so-called 'authority figure', perhaps as far as beating them senseless, then turning them in to the police. But apparently many people are weak-minded and follow orders like good little sheep. Would tend to explain much of the bullshit that is allowed to happen in this world: Too many people too weak to stand up for what they know is right, even if people are being hurt or killed right in front of them. And we dare to call our race 'civilized' and 'sentient'. Bollocks.
"...head to Ryan's office and kill the son of a bitch?"
and let er carry that gun where ever and when ever she wants. Grl powa!
On things far less important than this ... how many of us have said to the boss "No, that's a stupid idea", only to be cajoled ... and how many times has "OK, send me an email demanding this" ... you forced me to do it, you authorized it, I no longer give a damn about the outcome.
Now, it's all well and good to say it's obvious ... but if you've objected, been over-ruled, and possibly told you'd have some consequences if you didn't comply ... I can see how the brain is wired to say "fuck it, that's not on me".
I mean, armies train people to be more willing to kill people ... why would anybody be surprised when they actually do it? You've pretty much been told to surrender the authority for certain kinds of moral judgement up the chain of command.
As so often happens, it's common sense after someone actually explains it. :-P
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
The rightists are intolerant of the freedoms of others to have a say and a choice over their own bodies and are bigoted and intolerant of anyone who disagrees with them. The most extreme rightists shoot up clinics because they don't like abortion... Two can play this game, bub.
That's such an ignorant right wing answer. Rightists allow the biased mainstream media to do their thinking for them and put absolutely no effort into understanding liberals. They go straight to name calling: socialist, SJW, commie pinko, hippie, nigger-lover, hateful, fagots, etc. Conservatives are the most intolerant hateful people there are. They are intolerant of liberals, intolerant of Atheists, intolerant of freedom and liberty, and intolerant of anyone who disagrees with them. The most extreme blow up buildings like the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building, shoot abortion doctors, etc. to make their point.
Kind of goes both ways, wouldn't you say?
Someone seriously studied this? Does the phrase "I'm just following orders" not exist to these people?
When robots who refer to themselves as scientists study something they do not understand, they project their own limitations and mathematical/statistical and probability framework on that which they study.
Sure, a robot stands a great potential at taking orders like a robot.
But does a human take orders like a robot?
Not always. Look for evidence to the contrary and you'll find it.
It's the same mechanism that leads to riots and other similar phenomena: people lose their sense of personal responsibility. In riots people who would normally not even think about looting or destroying property will happily participate when in a large crowd because they aren't responsible for it, the crowd is. It's the same in this case: it is the person giving the order that is responsible, not the person actually committing the ordered action.
Now, granted, in many cases of atrocities (think Holocaust, ISIS, and child soldiers in Africa), those involved have also been affected by some form of conditioning or other coercion. Quite often this begins at an early age because children are impressionable, but it can easily be accomplished on older individuals by tapping into a sense of frustration/disillusionment/anger and exploiting it, often by using the intended targets of the atrocity as the scapegoat for those feelings.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
But tolerance of intolerance is intolerant, so the Democrats are being tolerant by being intolerant. I don't understand how Republicans just can't comprehend that.
It's not like an SS guy went from walking on the street, to signing up for the SS and to murdering jews in a week.
Well, actually, some did. When walking the streets in their pre-SS days some were severely beating jews and destroying the property of jews. They already possessed violent anti-semitic behaviors. The camp environment removed what restraints society was putting on them. It liberated the hatred and violence they already possessed.
That said, there were also SS volunteers who refused to participate and were quietly transferred without any fuss. These volunteers joined the SS to be soldiers. They were quietly transferred out to avoid a paper trail. If charged with disobeying orders the order disobeyed would have to be stated. Its a myth that those assigned to death camps would be themselves shot for refusing to participate. It was not that simple.
That was a terrible article. The link to the study, at the top, would have been a much better destination.
Wow, what a clever barb from the leftard.
Most humans are sheep.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
neuroscience said that subject was okay
Fuck you. If Israel behaved the way you lying goat-fucking Hamassholes want us to believe, there wouldn't have been any Palestinians at all by 1960.
The fact is, the IDF shows incredible restraint.
So, you're defending murder? Nice.
Social programs for the poor do not constitute "economic warfare against the middle class." Raising the standard of living for all people in a community will produce better outcomes for everyone; less crime, less violence, better health, more community involvement. Honestly, where do people even come up with this stuff?
Social programs for the poor do not constitute "economic warfare against the middle class."
He didn't say that it did. Reading comprehension, how does it work?
Social programs for the poor do not constitute "economic warfare against the middle class."
It may, if these programs are funded by taxing specifically the middle class.
At least OWS succeeded in their goals of having a voice and raising awareness.
Awareness of what, exactly? The fact that there's a bunch of overly entitled shitbrained kids who can't put together a coherent protest strategy or set of demands? How many of those dumbasses do you think actually went out and VOTED in any elections? I'll tell you- not very many.
You cannot raise the economic standard of living by taxing everyone into oblivion. Taxes, all of them, are regressive. They are an assault (albeit necessary) on everyone.
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
radio lab did a an illuminating segment on these experiments in their "BAD" show.
http://www.radiolab.org/story/180092-the-bad-show/
The actual experiment conducted in the 60's that people will NOT do harm just because they are ordered to do so.
In fact that was the one tested case where people would not do it.
The true reason that people harmed others is that they were told it was necessary for science.
Listen to the show. It's quite interesting.
Because saying "no" and walk out to do the right thing does not keep your family fed and clothed? It does however get you persecution by whatever authorities and ostracism from society.
Free, as in your money being freed from the confines of your account.
the IDF shows incredible restraint.
When they are being watched. Lets ask them if we can send in some UN observers and see how they react.
And even when she didn't have a choice, that still doesn't negate the inherent rights of the HUMAN she is carrying.
I would love you to be the "She" in the sentence you said, and then I would like to hear your opinion again. Also, your argument said the so called "human" she is carrying can negate her own inherent rights???
The atrocities that were carried out during the Nazi time by the Nazis, were carried out mostly by people that stepped forward and that had the opportunity to not take part in such actions.
For example, the personell at the concentration and killing camps were members of the "Waffen SS".
These people needed to step forward to join the Waffen SS, and swear the oath on their "Fuehrer Adolf Hitler", these people were convinced about what they were doing, and in the case of the concentration & killing camps they could request a transfer away, most didn't.
Those people were willing to commit atrocities .. the reduced awareness due to a command cannot be an excuse nor it can explain this, except that some people have a very weak barrier that keeps their behaviour under control.
There was also the "Wehrmacht" (german regular army til 1945) that has also commited atrocities and crimes against humanity.
Like shooting captured russian POWs in the head from a hideout in a neighbouring room behind a bar for height measurement, shooting done by volunteers.
It's just disgusting.
And every army that has gone into combat since and before then knows about the conventions to protect civilians and to treat POWs and every army that has gone into combat commits atrocities again.
Only a few commit these atrocites, but many stand by and just don't stop them.
Most republican policies are best explained by ignorance and wanting to "win".
With their hands, various weapons, and sometimes mean comments. That's how humans are able to hurt others.
My body my choice. I did not consent to growing a human for you in my body.
How is killing unborn babies not considered the ultimate hate?
So the woman is carrying a non-human foetus? I think I've seen that movie!
Sticks and stones may break my bones In area six they throw bottles and bricks and kicks
http://www.acetonestudio.com
You may want to check your references.
Waffen SS were the 'regular' army of the SS.
Totenkopf was the branch mainly responsible with the death camps.
Have gnu, will travel.
Well said. I would also add that taxes need to be applied - and enforced - equally and equitably.
For example, it's unfair if for $100,000 in tax advice someone can employ loopholes that essentially negate tax obligations. Because then it's only those who pay would have paid $100,000 OR MORE in tax who can enjoy this benefit.
It has nothing to do with Religion you troll, it has everything to do with power. Hitler for example believed in what ever he could to get power. People claiming he was Religious ignore the fact that he had teams of Mystic's and Astrologers, and was trying to hoard "Magic" artifacts. Artifacts from Tibet, China, Egypt, and India were just as important as those from Judea Christian sources..
How about making it a simple "Brain washing works" statement instead? That statement has historical backing and we can look at not just Nazi Germany but also Russia, China, Cambodia, Argentina, Brazil, Cuba, and wholly shit.. even the US was the product of brain washing and committed atrocities. Don't take my word for it, ask a native American Indian.
Sorry if reality hurts your tiny biased view of the world, but it's reality.
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
You know full well the consequences of sex. You chose to do it anyway. Do not punish the innocent human that results from your poor self control.
What if I just like to hurt people? I really don't care what happens to them, at all, but since I do care what happens to me, I'd prefer not to be imprisoned or executed for walking through a mall with a pistol taking target practice.
"the personell at the concentration and killing camps were members of the "Waffen SS"."
No. The Waffen SS was the armed/military wing of the SS deployed in ground combat operations.
The SS-Totenkopfverbande ( "Death's Head" Unit) was the part of the organization responsible for concentration camps.
I'd say they needed more than commands. Part of the historical lesson of Nazi Germany is that "normal" people can be totally corrupted given the right circumstances. There's certainly no excusing what they did, but it's a bit shallow to write them all off as evil, weak-minded and willing. The command/authority structure was part of it, but there was also a relentless and intensive "brainwashing" effort specifically for the camp guards. They were given constant reassurances that what they were doing served a righteous cause. The guards were also cajoled by material and other privileges, like being allowed to move their families around with them.
Avoiding insubstantial ad hominem attacks like this is why /. needs to keep AC.
Tell the neuroscientists to go study drone operators ordered to bomb hospitals and schools.
There is a world of difference, morally speaking, between being "ordered" to do something and being "coerced" into doing something. Anyone who hurts an innocent person because some authority figure ordered them to do so is morally culpable. In the case of coercion it hinges upon whether one has a choice and what degree of harm is involved. If there is truly no choice, then morality does not apply. Moral principles guide us only in cases where we are free to act in the face of an alternative. If coerced to kill or be killed, whichever action one takes, one's action is outside the realm of moral judgment. Not so for the one compelling the action they would bear 100% of the moral culpability. Consider the metaphor of "Sophie's Choice." Sophie was morally blameless.
If you lower the intensity a few orders of magnitude, isn't this obvious and doesn't it hit many programmers pretty close to home?
I've never murdered anyone, but I have done plenty of things I thought were dumb or "bad" simply because "that's how the boss wants it." And HELL YES I feel less responsible. I really do. Don't you?
"Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
Innocent human or foetal fish? What's the ratio of eggs fertilised to live babies born even without the morning-after pill or abortion? God or nature abort a lot more than humans do.
And water is wet.... Wow!
Besides the fact that they are not a baby till born, how is forcing life on an unwanted fetus, just to torture it not the ultimate sadistry?
Usually it's the same people trying to force the unwanted into the world who go on about the their bad decisions, refusing to give them any slack and eventually wanting to execute them after a lifetime of torture. The saddest is that they often do it in the name of Christ, a person that if he was around today, the same arseholes would be cheering at his execution, and doubly cheering if it was done a slow way such as crucifixion. Bloody peace loving hippy that he was.
Just once I'd like to see an anti-abortionist promoting birth control or sex education instead of going on about how the child should suffer because the mother did a bad thing.
Personally, not liking the whole idea of abortion, I'd like to see as much done to prevent the need for it, including the consideration that the urge to have have sex is one of the strongest urges going.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
my first instinct is to hurt them so they stop.
The results indicate that humans are able to hurt each other when given orders.
Those aren't the results, but rather the original observations. From the article's abstract:
Thus, people who obey orders may subjectively experience their actions as closer to passive movements than fully voluntary actions
The results are that the brain actually feels like a passive observer once you have decided to follow orders against your better judgement. You no longer process the results as consequences of your actions, but rather as 'just the way the world moves'. This means that any form of reinforcement learning goes out the window immediatly.
Is that why I want to hurt people that try to boss me around?
While what you're writing is quite right, it doesn't help that Himmler mixed the different parts of SS up with each other.
E.g Waffen SS soldiers sometimes where used as guards in concentration camps while recovering from wounds - something they had not volunteered for, front troops were recruited from the Totenkopfverbände, hence the 3 rd. SS panzer division "SS Totenkopf", and so on. All in order to insure that everyone should have their personal share of guilt, and to make sure the "right spirit" was spread through the entire organisation.
Bad pun, or funny coincidence?
Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
.. we have the same stuff going on.
Like what Israeli soldiers and settlers are doing to Palestinians?
And we have a winner in our "The record on the turntable in my brain is skipping again" contest. No more entries, please!
Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
Nothing else I've heard has been able to explain their kind.
Well, yeah. Republicans are currently really heavily hierarchical authoritarian in cognitive style. And this paper shows how that shuts down the neurological pathways which would otherwise lead to feelings of personal responsibility for the decisions made and the consequences that come from it.
Try this simple experiment: ask a sample of Republicans if they are happy with the presidency of Bush Jr., and when they say no (as most of them will do), ask them if that has made them rethink in any fashion the axioms and beliefs that made them vote for Bush in the first place? Nope, their votes just were in no way responsible for the things that happened later.
Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
You cannot raise the economic standard of living by taxing everyone into oblivion. Taxes, all of them, are regressive. They are an assault (albeit necessary) on everyone.
I don't think "regressive" means what you think it means. I.e.. " (of a tax or tax system) levied or graduated so that the rate decreases as the amount taxed increases"
Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
How is killing unborn babies not considered the ultimate hate?
Why would that be the case? Is it better to wait until they are born and kill them them? Or when they are six? or sixteen? or sixty? You figure, they have to earn the right to get killed, so we'll give them a free pass before they develop a nervous system?
Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
You know full well the consequences of sex. You chose to do it anyway. Do not punish the innocent human that results from your poor self control.
Babies are the punishment for sex, and everybody should know that.
"I will greatly multiply Your pain in childbirth, In pain you will bring forth children; Yet your desire will be for your husband, And he will rule over you."
Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
Doesnt this mean that the idea that "I was just following orders" is no defence, is actually quite a provable defence?
The linked "article" was entirely without content, except for numerous "Paid Content" links to scammy crap.
And that one would be self-hate.
Because they are not yet self aware, and the mother is.