Federal Judge Admits Existence Of NSA's PRISM Program (vocativ.com)

An anonymous reader writes: A U.S. judge has just admitted the existence of the NSA's infamous PRISM program by name, apparently the first time any federal judge has done so. PRISM has been an open secret since June 2013, when documents leaked by former NSA contractor Edward Snowden were first made public. An ominous NSA PowerPoint training slide claimed that PRISM allowed "collection [of user data] directly from the servers" of major American tech companies like Yahoo, Google, and Apple, though those tech companies immediately and fiercely protested that no, to their knowledge, they didn't give the NSA such access. It's since been generally accepted that the NSA wasn't physically accessing those companies' servers with PRISM, but instead creating a streamlined legal process to compel those companies, via orders processed in the secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, to turn over users' data. Since the program's disclosure, most government reports and redacted FISA court orders have referred to PRISM by the legal authority the NSA claims authorizes it, Section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. But that's confusing, because 702 also authorizes what's called Upstream collection, which gives the NSA access to raw internet data -- not the same thing as PRISM, which is more specifically targeted.

Comments

... and they say we wear tinfoil hats

[Taco Cowboy]

Years ago when we told others about the existence of Prism and many other oppressive projects, people say we wore tinfoil

Thanks to Snowden and many other brave souls, now the world knows how despicable the American government (at least part of it) has become

PRISM is far from being the only thing Uncle Sam has under its sleeves, there are other programs with equal dastardly scope / aim, or worse ... exposing those will take more time

The world deserves to know how the American government - once the epitome of world Liberty - has become

Re:... and they say we wear tinfoil hats

[Anonymous Coward]

+4 Funny? Well now, that's just sad.

Re:... and they say we wear tinfoil hats

[Applehu Akbar]

"Thanks to Snowden and many other brave souls, now the world knows how despicable the American government (at least part of it) has become"

Unfortunately, this behavior will continue until we stop giving it money and power.

Re:... and they say we wear tinfoil hats

[Anonymous Coward]

Somehow it bugs me that the press always alludes to Edward Snowden as the source of the first inkling of the NSA PRISM program. The timeline goes back much farther, to 2003... https://www.eff.org/nsa-spying/timeline but evidently this wasn't important at the time. I'm not sure what my opinion is of Snowden, hero or traitor- maybe some of both. Not that my opinion matters much. The reality is that our global interconnectedness has come at the cost of our romantic expectation of privacy.

Re:... and they say we wear tinfoil hats

[Gravis Zero]

Years ago when we told others about the existence of Prism and many other oppressive projects, people say we wore tinfoil

just because you were right about something doesn't mean you aren't a paranoid schizophrenic.

Re:... and they say we wear tinfoil hats

[wierd_w]

Hello AC.

I see you have drunk the Koolaid.

Points in contention:

1) Holding the government accountable for its actions is not the same as "hating" the country. Please stop pretending that it is.

2) "Terrorist" is such a loosely used word (when used by the US government) that just about anyone that exposes, or otherwise makes the US look bad for its blatantly anti-civil behaviors is branded such, because apparently being accountable for their actions is "Terrifying" to government officials. Yes, this means that if you mention the NSA spooks installing listening equipment next door to a public restroom, you will be branded a terrorist, and ooops, I guess now you are a bad bad man, and deserve to go to GITMO! See how loose definitions work there? Not good. Just because the government labels somebody a "Terrorist" does not mean that they enact political change through the use of mass terror. (You know, what a REAL terrorist actually does.)

Underlying both of those points of contention is the false notion that disobeying government's wishes is fundamentally wrong/immoral. I hate to Godwin, but by that logic, the people who refused to tell the germans where all the jews were hiding were horrible people.

Basically, I am with Taco above-- I do not "hate America", I hate what America is becoming, through the blind obsequiousness of people like you.

Please, for the love of all that is wholesome and good, stop drinking the government koolaid.

Re:... and they say we wear tinfoil hats

[pepsikid]

NOPE NOPE NOPE
No, you may not do that.

The NSA, FBI and other over-reaching spying agencies are NOT the USA.
The USA is the 340 Million "free" people who comprise the citizens of the country.

By fiercely protecting the privacy of those people, we show our love for the USA.
Those apologists for the manipulative and disgraceful spy agencies, and those who echo their false narratives are the ones who hate the USA.

Re:... and they say we wear tinfoil hats

[DivineKnight]

"Come, let us do evil that good may result."

Re:... and they say we wear tinfoil hats

[fustakrakich]

"hiding aliens"? The coyotes might be, but I doubt the government is.

Re:... and they say we wear tinfoil hats

[Anonymous Coward]

Whats the difference between China and the USA ?

Just the currency.

Re:... and they say we wear tinfoil hats

[KGIII]

I point out the problems with my country not because I hate it but because I love it.

Re:... and they say we wear tinfoil hats

[Megol]

Bullshit! In the 80s the Echelon network was exposed and until the recent leaks (when the codenames was exposed to the public) Echelon was used in public discussion of the intelligence gathering of the US "spy ring" (includes UK, Australia etc.).

Re:... and they say we wear tinfoil hats

[buck-yar]

Re 1, Accountable for what, trying to defend the country from attacks?

Re 2, google the sovereign citizen movement.

Re:... and they say we wear tinfoil hats

[buck-yar]

Tinfoil, what? MS and NSA relationship has been headlines since 1998. What rock have you been living under?

http://www.cnn.com/TECH/comput...
FTA:

It's gotten to the point where no vendor hip to the NSA's power will even start building products without checking in with Fort Meade first. This includes even that supposed ruler of the software universe, Microsoft Corp. "It's inevitable that you design products with specific [encryption] algorithms and key lengths in mind," said Ira Rubenstein, Microsoft attorney and a top lieutenant to Bill Gates. By his own account, Rubenstein acts as a "filter" between the NSA and Microsoft's design teams in Redmond, Wash. "Any time that you're developing a new product, you will be working closely with the NSA," he noted.

Re:... and they say we wear tinfoil hats

[Anonymous Coward]

The sovereign citizen movement, if there ever was one, is nothing more than a ignorant hive mind magnet that only begets silly notions and hopeful thinking. Sure, I guess it could be used as an example of people that have alternative goals than the current government, but it is fully housed by illogical and fanciful sorts. They buy lottery tickets, dream of finding buried treasure, and because they have no understanding of the reality that surrounds them, they will probably see this post and think that this confirms their belief structure. Those that subscribe to this school of thought are only terrifying in their blind acceptance of unsupported "facts."

Re:... and they say we wear tinfoil hats

[Anonymous Coward]

nahhh...China may bug my device, but does not care shit about me as a normal individual, only about their own. USA will be collecting and storing my data. That is the difference.

Re:... and they say we wear tinfoil hats

[Coren22]

http://www.nij.gov/topics/crim...

Seems a pretty narrow definition of terrorist. Please point to any examples of wider uses of the word.

Re:... and they say we wear tinfoil hats

[Coren22]

I suggest you go to China and say that very thing, it will quickly demonstrate the primary difference between the two countries.

Re:... and they say we wear tinfoil hats

[Anonymous Coward]

Noone thought you wore tinfoil because you said things like this exist. Everyone knew they existed. We all simply said you are completely crazy because you think there is someone at the NSA personally reading and caring about everything you type. They don't. There isn't. Unless you are involved in committing crimes. Then yes, there is.

Re:... and they say we wear tinfoil hats

[wyHunter]

Yeah because god forbid that the people who are supposed to be the ones who have the say in the land because they're voters and taxpayers, actually have rights! Better stay in California or New York buddy.

Re:... and they say we wear tinfoil hats

[wyHunter]

Somehow a certain European leader in the 1930s probably said that. You know , one of those socialist guys who lived in a particular nation.

Re:... and they say we wear tinfoil hats

[wyHunter]

No,that isn't true. What we're fighting for is for the USA NOT to become what China is today.

Re:... and they say we wear tinfoil hats

[Anonymous Coward]

Prove it. Prove that it is not being used to control members of the House, the Senate, foreign heads of states, whistle-blowers, Judges, protestors, coups. Please try.

Because I remember a FBI directory who did just that. But keep licking that boot on your neck, mmmm, tastes good don't it.

Re:... and they say we wear tinfoil hats

[Anonymous Coward]

Seems a pretty narrow definition of terrorist. Please point to any examples of wider uses of the word.

There are two definitions right there. With the FBI's definition being substantially larger than the legal definition. Over and over I've heard attacks on US and Israeli solders being called terrorism, but the legal definition you liked says "noncombatant targets". Attacking an occupying force in your home country certainly isn't terrorism. Both definitions also require violence, but when two guys released a bunch of minks, they were found to be terrorist. Personally, I think you'd have to be living in a cave to not notice how everyone is being called a terrorist these days. It reminds me of when everyone who apposed the US was called a communist 30 years ago.

Re:... and they say we wear tinfoil hats

[themusicgod1]

The NSA is building a profile on every single person, including you, "Anonymous" Coward. They very much are building a catalog of your porn tastes, and everything else about you that they can vacuum up.

Re:... and they say we wear tinfoil hats

[Anonymous Coward]

You are completely crazy because you think there is someone at the NSA personally reading and caring about everything you type. They don't. There isn't. Unless you are involved in committing crimes. Then yes, there is.

You are naive or unwilling to consider the political power such data confers on the established power structure. Suppose that I wanted to become involved in reforming the government, either by running for office or a media campaign. The moment I make a politically powerful enemy, they would be very interested in every scrap of data about me. They could use this information to orchestrate smear campaigns, or even cook up some legal entanglements to keep me busy in court or imprisoned. In short, willingly divulging every detail about yourself and your past actions to the power-junkies in Washington is only furnishing them with another weapon to keep you in line.

Re:... and they say we wear tinfoil hats

[Zero__Kelvin]

So you are suggesting he "say" a question. Somehow I doubt that "Whats the difference between China and the USA ?" would be a question that gets you hung. It opens up the opportunity for them to say how China is great and America sucks. Now question that and yes, you'd be in a heap of trouble.

Re:... and they say we wear tinfoil hats

[Anonymous Coward]

(it is Excrement Color Anthropoids and their **need** to find out who are the voices they all *hear* in their brains, and on whom are those voices being reflected. It is the root problem, but normies do not fully realize that such levels of information are not a normality.)

federal judge retires

[turkeydance]

to a retirement community named Public Retirement Information Systems Management or PRISM.

Tails Linux 2.2 is out (Mar 8th, 2016)

[Anonymous Coward]

= Announcements:

https://tails.boum.org/news/ve...
https://twitter.com/Tails_live...
https://blog.torproject.org/bl...
http://distrowatch.com/?newsid...

Tor Browser 5.5.3 is released (Mar 8th, 2016) +

[Anonymous Coward]

Tor Browser 5.5.3 is released (Mar 8th, 2016) + Other Tor News

= Announcement
https://blog.torproject.org/bl...

= Downloads
https://www.torproject.org/dow...

##

Also, in Tor News:

Tor Messenger 0.1.0b5 is released
"We are pleased to announce another public beta release of Tor Messenger."
https://blog.torproject.org/bl...

Tor Browser 6.0a3-hardened is released
"A new hardened Tor Browser release is available"
https://blog.torproject.org/bl...

Tor Browser 6.0a3 is released
"A new alpha Tor Browser release is available"
https://blog.torproject.org/bl...

u.s judge

[Anonymous Coward]

Ummmmm...... ....oops?

Re:u.s judge

[Anonymous Coward]

Modern Federal oopses know that only judges can oop oopses, not luddite PRISM oopses

OOPS!

Remember ...

[BarbaraHudson]

Remember, the government can now do stuff and order you not to talk about it. It's very easy to envision them going to a tech and saying "open that wiring closet" knowing that if anyone hears about it, he's going to Leavenworth.

Re:Remember ...

[shawn2772]

Remember, the government can now do stuff and order you not to talk about it. It's very easy to envision them going to a tech and saying "open that wiring closet" knowing that if anyone hears about it, he's going to Leavenworth.

Cite?

I only know of two forms of gag orders under US law. The first is associated with National Security Letters. The legislation behind those specifies that they may only be used to compel the delivery of metadata that is in the recipient organization's possession, and it says that the recipient may be ordered not to divulge the fact that the request was received or responded to. NSLs don't authorize arbitrary demands like "open that wiring closet". The other is a court order. Judges have very wide latitude in what they can order. However, such orders can be appealed, and judges generally do not make such blanket orders.

So which one of those are you talking about, or are you referring to another that the public hasn't been made aware of?

Re:Remember ...

[BitZtream]

Then you do it anyway, very very publicly, and make it clear that you've been threatened and then point out to the public that they can assume any bullshit that happens to you or your family is a direct result of you pissing of 'the man'

And maybe they do something to you, but the resulting backlash will actually result in a change where as if you just do what they tell you because you're afraid of losing your freedom then you're really no different than they are.

Being a coward isn't an excuse for not doing the right thing.

We should be teaching our children to stand up and take one for the team if need be, but make sure the team isn't a bunch of lying politicians first. Not teaching them that its okay if the government threatens you to let them get by with it.

You do realize the reason they get by with it is because people are cowards who don't care about anyone but themselves, right?

Re:Remember ...

[BarbaraHudson]

Most people don't want to spend the next decade in Russia.

Re:Remember ...

[tlambert]

Remember, the government can now do stuff and order you not to talk about it. It's very easy to envision them going to a tech and saying "open that wiring closet" knowing that if anyone hears about it, he's going to Leavenworth.

Cite?

I only know of two forms of gag orders under US law [national security letter] / [court order]

So which one of those are you talking about, or are you referring to another that the public hasn't been made aware of?

There are also:

Patent secrecy orders under 37 CFR 5.2: "When notified by the chief officer of a defense agency that publication or disclosure of the invention by the granting of a patent would be detrimental to the national security, an order that the invention be kept secret will be issued by the Commissioner for Patents". The compensations provisions under the law pretty much suck, too.

Suspicious activity reports, under Housing and Community Development Act of 1992 / Annunzio-Wylie Anti-Money Laundering Act, Pub.L. 102–550, 1517(b), 106 Stat. 4060.

18 U.S.C. 2705(b) -- The Electronic Communications Privacy Act of 1986 / Stored Communications Act; this is where all the security "canaries" in the disclosure reports from companies tend to originate.

18 U.S.C. 3123(d)(2) -- The Electronic Communications Privacy Act of 1986; this is what prevents disclosure of pen registers.

California Electronic Communications Privacy Act -- gag orders on all cases concerning electronic search warrants.

There are, in fact others, some of which I'm prohibited from sharing with you...

Re:Remember ...

[KGIII]

I don't drink anymore. At least not as a general rule. One of these days, we're going to have to sit down and have a beer or two so that I can pick your brain.

Re:Remember ...

[KGIII]

Yes but he can say that because he's not in that position and it's not something we can ever verify.

To be fair, so can't I. It's hard to say what we'd really do. I'd like to think I'll have courage and be a true Patriot. (Capitalization intentional.) I'd like to think that I'd suffer the consequences stoically and with dignity. Hell, I spent eight years enlisted - I'd like to think I'd do the right thing, the right thing being deciding for myself if a request is moral or not and aiding or not depending on that judgment. In other words, given the types of scenarios that I'm envisioning - I'd like to think that I'd go to the media in a whole bunch of creative ways and provide as much documentation as I can.

At one point, I was willing to die for this country. I had a lot more to lose then than I do now. More importantly (to my mind) is that I was willing to kill for my country. Dieing is pretty easy, any fool can do it. Today? Today, I'm old and I've not actually got any real regrets. I don't have any major aspirations. I've done everything I've ever wanted to do, been everywhere I wanted to go, met everyone I want to meet, lived, laughed, loved, and cried. Death doesn't fear me but long and drawn out suffering scares the hell out of me.

I'd like to think that I'd do the right thing.

But will I?

Talk is cheap and neither him, you, nor I are there in that position. I don't really know what I'd do. I'd love to lie and say that I'm absolutely certain that I'll do the right thing, regardless of the costs. I can't say that. I won't say that. Should the time come, hopefully you'll know that I did the right thing. I'd like to think that my kids wouldn't mind, I'd like to think they'd be proud. They know where I stand on things like this or, more accurately, they know which side I'd like to think I'd stand on.

Re:Remember ...

[Anonymous Coward]

The patent secrecy orders do suck balls for compensation. A close relative of mine worked at Varian back in it's heyday and invented early compact microwave phased array radar among other things. the Govt. relieved him of his ideas for "National security", it ended up in early tracking systems for missiles so it really was seurity i suppose. he said he only got a few grand, showed me the patent and prototypes.

Re:Remember ...

[stealth_finger]

There are, in fact others, some of which I'm prohibited from sharing with you...

So go AC

Re:Remember ...

[shawn2772]

Remember, the government can now do stuff and order you not to talk about it. It's very easy to envision them going to a tech and saying "open that wiring closet" knowing that if anyone hears about it, he's going to Leavenworth.

Cite?

I only know of two forms of gag orders under US law [national security letter] / [court order]

So which one of those are you talking about, or are you referring to another that the public hasn't been made aware of?

There are also:

Patent secrecy orders under 37 CFR 5.2

Valid point, but not relevant to this discussion.

Suspicious activity reports, under Housing and Community Development Act of 1992

Also valid but not relevant.

18 U.S.C. 2705(b) -- The Electronic Communications Privacy Act of 1986 / Stored Communications Act; this is where all the security "canaries" in the disclosure reports from companies tend to originate.

18 U.S.C. 3123(d)(2) -- The Electronic Communications Privacy Act of 1986; this is what prevents disclosure of pen registers.

Yes, this is the legislation that authorizes the FBI to issue NSLs seeking metadata. It's exactly the first form of gag order that I mentioned. Thank you for providing the details, but calling it an additional example is misleading to the point of deceptive.

California Electronic Communications Privacy Act -- gag orders on all cases concerning electronic search warrants.

This is state, not federal, and it requires a search warrant, which means that it's just a codification of the judge's extant authority to issue gag orders. So this is a special sub-case of the other form I mentioned.

So... you have not been able to cite any additional relevant situations in which gag orders can be issued. But at least you got a +5 out of it, so there's that.

There are, in fact others, some of which I'm prohibited from sharing with you...

Bullshit.

Re:Remember ...

[shawn2772]

You should read my reply to his comment.

Re:Remember ...

[BarbaraHudson]

I would just say that killing is easy, dying is easy, living is the big toughie.

There was one sig that said something like "If I had to choose between betraying my country or my friend, I hope I have the courage to betray my country." I'd absolutely hate to be in that position ... then again, if what the country is doing is illegal and immoral, the choice gets much easier.

Re:Remember ...

[KGIII]

Chances are you mistake my reasons for wanting to pick his brain. (I read your reply before typing this.)

Re:Remember ...

[shawn2772]

Well, I'm certainly not going to claim to know your reasons better than you do :-)

Re:Remember ...

[KGIII]

I'm currently having a quite long email exchange with a guy who is attempting to put his brain, and thinking process, into code and is making "the most realistic and powerful AI ever conceived." (His words, not mine.)

The OP's post is an unusual one but in aggregate with the rest of his posts makes me think that we'd have some interesting conversations. And the examples he gave might not be what was requested, they are interesting and tangentially related, at least to some extent, which makes me think there's a deeper conversation involved. Or that there could be...

In case you were curious.

Re:Remember ...

[shawn2772]

tlambert and I go way back; we met almost 30 years ago in school. You would definitely find him interesting to talk to.

Re:Remember ...

[tlambert]

There are, in fact others, some of which I'm prohibited from sharing with you...

Bullshit.

Here are some I'm allowed to share, but was too lazy to write out last time.

Your employee confidentiality agreement.

The confidentiality agreement that I had to sign with Apple to get access to the confidentiality agreement disclosing a project code name.

The confidentiality agreement that I signed to get the code name so that they could give me another confidentiality agreement that used the codename in the wording of the agreement.

That subsequent agreement.

Doctor/patient privilege.

HIPAA agreements with data providers.

Juvenile court records, which are de facto sealed, and so not require a court order to seal them.

Lawyer/client privilege.

etc..

Re:Remember ...

[tlambert]

Left out a biggie:

Clergy/parishioner Confessional

We supply terrorists weapons !!

[Taco Cowboy]

I know ... it's a 'whoosh' moment, but the 'terrorist' thing that you've brought up deserves more exposure ...
 
A lot of weapons the terrorists are using came from the United States of America, and a lot of those weapons were supplied by the government of the United States of America

You may think that I hate America. It's the contrary !

I am an American and I love my adopted country

Because of my love for the United States I do not like what is happening to my government

The government of America not only runs shitty programs such as PRISM, but is actively supplying weapons / training / logistical supports to many terrorist groups (which the Obama administration term : friendly forces)

Those so-called 'friendly forces' are carrying out things that are as bad as the ones IS has been doing - they behead people, crucifying people, kidnapping young girls from minority tribes (usually the Christians) and use them as sex slaves, and so on, and so forth ...
 
... and yet, the government of the United States of America, under Obama, chooses to ignore what is happening and continually to give support to those terrorists, supplying them weapons, and so on !
 
Just in case you don't know, the biggest terrorist group there is right now is running Turkey. Recep Tayyip ErdoÄYan is an Islamofascist, and his wife just publiclly called for the re-establishment of "Ottoman Harem', where teams of young girls are kept as sex slaves
 
What is the United States government doing?

Of course, continue its support for Recep Tayyip ErdoÄYan, the Islamofascist government !

Re:We supply terrorists weapons !!

[rtb61]

It's not what the US government is doing, is it what the psychopaths who have gained control of elements of the US government are doing to feed their insatiable greed and lusts. There have been a range of leaks about rebellion in the ranks in regards to the completely corrupt political appointees coming out of corporations and appointed by corrupt politicians funded by those corporations, who have become cancers in many US government organisations. It seems like it won't take much before the lower echelons ranks straight up arrest their corrupt supervising political appointees and demand they are prosecuted. There is a real feel of that blow out building and the corrupt douche bags can do nothing about with out triggering it, it will be public and brutal.

Re:We supply terrorists weapons !!

[buck-yar]

This is just how it looks from your perspective. The vast majority are good people just trying to help the country. Sure, sometimes they may get a little over zealous and overstep their bounds, but if they didn't try, I'd question their enthusiasm for law enforcement.

Re:We supply terrorists weapons !!

[wyHunter]

Oh, you mean the Democrats.

Re:We supply terrorists weapons !!

[Anonymous Coward]

Not only that, but Turkey is ACTIVELY TRAINING ISIS while making it seem as if they are training the 'rebels'. What a mess.

NSA was intercepting traffic between data centres

[presidenteloco]

Reportedly NSA was able up til the recent past to grab unencrypted data transfers from one data centre in for example. the Google cloud to another data centre.
This traffic may since have been encrypted by the pissed off cloud service provider companies.

Copyright violation....

[Anonymous Coward]

DEC copyrighted "PRISM" as a computer architecture back in 1988/1989 if I recall correctly. Which means HP can sue the govt. for Copyright violations under the terms of the TPP, via the All Writs Act if necessary.

Re:Copyright violation....

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

You mean trademarked, and no they can't.

Re:Copyright violation....

[KGIII]

I have seen some of the most unusual claims about the law here on Slashdot. Everything from, "Beyond all doubt." to, "They didn't read me the 5th when they gave me that speeding ticket!"

One of my favorites is the "fiduciary duty." That one gets completely mangled. The 4th, 2nd, and 5th get mangled quite bit. Oh, the 1st gets mangled a lot. Right here on Slashdot, during the Reddit thing a while back, someone was claiming that Reddit's censorship was illegal.

I am not a lawyer but it's be awesome if we could find one and ask 'em to give us some lessons in law, procedural law, jargon, and things like that. Also, financial advice - or at least taking the time to explain how it works so that people can get a good idea about how to protect themselves, that should be done.

As for the legal aspects, people should know what protections they have and what protections they don't actually have that they think they do. Maybe we can find a judge that has done a bunch of work on cases involving tech and get them to do an Ask Slashdot. I think we'll need a whole lot more than 10 questions as the limit. Hmm... Maybe we can hire a lawyer and have them answer generic questions. I'd chip in for that.

Re:Copyright violation....

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, the Reddit censorship may be illegal, just not under the First Amendment.

They advertised themselves pretty heavily as a free speech platform throughout their life. And then went back on it, once they had a whole lot of users. Classic bait-and-switch, and probably only legal in this case because they never charged money, at least to my knowledge.

But by advertising themselves as a free speech platform, they've effectively made it so that others of that nature - as opposed to anonymous imageboards like 4chan - didn't emerge as competitors focused on free speech. Voat popped up during this whole debacle, but from what I understand didn't really go anywhere, partially because of an early DDoS attack and partially because they lacked the critical mass of users that Reddit has. Reddit has harmed the market, and that might make them liable under various anti-trust laws and regulations. Maybe. Anti-trust issues have always been rather uncertain, and oftentimes clear violations can get swept under the rug by good enough lawyers.

I wonder where MKUltra programs are today

[Anonymous Coward]

We've seen the large amount of software/hardware being sold to governments around the world, thanks to Wikileaks spy-files, I wonder how much they are doing to actual people.

You can't expect hungry wolves to become vegetarians.

Re:Well... THAT didn't take very long.

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know about all that... but let's get back to the topic at hand. Repeat: Federal judge admits existence of fags

"DIRECT" access

[Anonymous Coward]

Article has a few misdirections. Firstly the denial from the companies involved.
They all claimed they didn't give NSA DIRECT access to their servers, and everyone of them refused to remove the qualifier "direct" when pushed.

So there is this PC on their networks, which the NSA tasks to grab data that slurps and slurps down anything useful, which will be mostly political, business secrets, military stuff. *INDIRECT* access you could call it, but its warrantless unrestrained access nevertheless.

"Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court" is a misnoma, its not a court, it hears no cross examination of evidence, and does not even see individual evidence for individual searches at all. It is an office of the Executive, just like the NSA, that handles classes of data e.g. says "yep, NSA can have all the phone data", "yep NSA can have all the credit card data", "yep NSA can have Uber's God Mode data", "yep NSA can have 4chan logs", "yep NSA can have Slashdots logs", "yep NSA can grab Hotmail".
It doesn't even restrict itself to approving "Foreign" surveillance, permitting US domestic surveillance too.

Re:"DIRECT" access

[wierd_w]

And that is the danger inherent with any secret court.

It astounds me that some people consider the very idea of the FISA court to be a good one.

If those people are afraid of terrorists, why the fuck arent they afraid of the biggest terrorist in the room?

Re:"DIRECT" access

[AHuxley]

It depends on what DIRECT domestic access would mean to a brand and its obligations?
Government or mil optical and splitters, servers deep in their network after any brand encryption had been removed would be the best win for the gov/mil.
That would show access, support and cooperation at a brand level. Legal, tech, everyone knew and happily helped.
Some other law enforcement operation was used as a domestic cover for years and they got 100% brand cooperation. Other mil and gov networks followed that wide open path in and collected everything. The brands never asked, looked or even understood what was been done to their own networks...
A small amount of brand staff got allowed into a gov program and set up the splitters, servers and that stayed in place, other staff unaware of their own networks status and totally unaware of the mass collect it all outflow of information..
Cooperation or a total lack of understanding of their own staff, secure internal networks...
What feels better?
That staff totally helped the gov with collect it all domestic spying? The staff could not, got prevented from, would not or never had to skills to secure their own networks?
Does domestic spying with insider help from a secure network sound better? Or a private sector network that the gov/mil could keep open and nobody noticed? The staff never looked any deeper as it was as secure as they that the skills to make it?
The brands helped the gov and mil? Or the mil and gov found a way in and never got discovered, even with bulk domestic collect it all for years?
Not one smart person saw an extra splitter, server or wondered about their data outflow, heat, power use? If such hardware freedom over many years was allowed, what else could have made its way deep into the most secure networks? Other govs? Other mils? Anyone with access and a good cover story could walk in and install anything? How does years of hardware access sound?
Direct could be about a server been placed, a new contractor build splitter room? vs a software solution? ie BLARNEY, FAIRVIEW.

PRISM began 2007

[Anonymous Coward]

PRISM began 2007, with Microsoft giving NSA access to their servers. Mass surveillance, which includes all telephone calls, banking, etc. is wider and covers more than PRISM.

"romantic expectation of privacy"

Yet I cannot hand you General Alexanders private emails, but General Alexander can hand you mine. Because NSA had the tap into Yahoo and I don't. It's not "interconnectedness" that caused this, it was US companies handing bulk, judicial free access to their worldwide data.

Re:PRISM began 2007

[buck-yar]

Technically it began in 1998 with the Verizon Business partnership.

MS hasn't even been secretive, why should they? They're just assisting law enforcement in doing their jobs

http://www.cnn.com/TECH/comput...

Re:PRISM began 2007

[Zero__Kelvin]

Unfortunately, it is all too common these days that assisting law enforcement in doing their jobs is immoral. Until people get it through their head that most cops are criminals, and they don't care at all about Justice or morals, the country will continue in its downward spiral. They want power; specifically the power to break the law with impunity, to exact revenge on those they don't like, and to grant special favors to those who do. I am not a cop, but I say this as a person whose stepmother was very high up in our states law enforcement hierarchy. I have met hundreds of cops all of whom blatantly bragged about their escapades breaking the law to screw over some "scumbag" (i.e. average citizen, who may smoke pot or something equally "sinister") and other similarly disgusting stories. I can assure you, they overwhelmingly disregard the law and believe that as cops they are somehow not required to follow it themselves. This same attitude goes double for the various TLAs such as FBI and NSA.

I am not denying that I am a paranoid ...

[Taco Cowboy]

... and because of that I always keep myself abreast of what's going on ... and ...
 
... ahead of my competitors

Remember what Andy Grove (of Intel) said ... Only the Paranoid Survives

oh dang

[Anonymous Coward]

How will God ever foil the NWO plot now?

gee willickers

Re:oh dang

[buck-yar]

NWO unstoppable since they got Dennis Rodman https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

"Just" happened?!

[Anonymous Coward]

Pro tip for serious journalists: Stop saying such-and-such "just happened."

Anything that happened more than an hour ago in real time didn't "just happen." This style of headline smacks of cheap, wretched Taboola clickbait, and if /. wants to regain any shred of journalistic credibility under the new regime, the editors will start editing out such drivel — and the Taboola clickbait, to boot.

Re:Well... THAT didn't take very long.

[buck-yar]

Systemd is doing a pretty good job of wrecking linux on its own.

Finally admitted...

[Anonymous Coward]

So one of the emperors cout has admitted that the emperor is naked....
Well, maybe the breadbox-mind-space public will accept it. Then, a few years later, something will happen,
and everyone will rise up in anger, or at least irritation, because it will involve a child and/or an elected official.
Meanwhile, the nameless in the bureaucracy will continue to peruse citizen data for anything they find to be unacceptable...
and act on it in discrete channels to bring the citizen to justice (/sarc).

It will take more than one admission to fix the problems in the bureaucracy (plural?).

National Security, the biggest lie of all

[Anonymous Coward]

In the past three thousand years, has there even been one terrorist who wasn't supplied by those fueling this lie to begin with?

Isn't it about time we stopped believing lies?

Re:NSA was intercepting traffic between data centr

[thisisauniqueid]

Correct. PRISM was not a streamlined legal framework. It was a way to eavesdrop on data between corporate datacenters, and then decrypt, store and index it. e.g. in the case of traffic between Google datacenters, the NSA had to decypher the serialized Google protocol buffer format for Google data, then figure out which data corresponded with which Gmail service.

Re:Well... THAT didn't take very long.

[Zero__Kelvin]

Shut the fuck up you ignorant moron.

Is it the Govrnmnt? Or Corp USA???

[martinfb]

We all know how big money manipulates much - especially government. GENUINE government people believe in FOR the people. Corporate USA believes in $$$ first, with the people concerns bent on keeping more $$$. (i.e. suppress the masses so we can keep this model alive.) PRISM, et al, is in place for such purposes. (And I digress from here...)