US Says North Korean Submarine Missing (cnn.com)

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US Says North Korean Submarine Missing (cnn.com)

Posted by BeauHD on Saturday March 12, 2016 @10:26AM from the heightened-tensions dept.

An anonymous reader writes: The North Korean regime lost contact with one of its submarines earlier this week, three U.S. officials familiar with the latest information told CNN. According to CNN, the U.S. military had been observing the submarine operate off North Korea's east coast when the vessel stopped, and U.S. spy satellites, aircraft and ships have been secretly watching for days as the North Korean navy searched for the missing sub. The U.S. is unsure if the missing vessel is adrift under the sea or whether it has sunk, the officials said, but believes it suffered some type of failure during an exercise. This comes after North Korea has threatened to use nuclear weapons at any time and turn its military posture to "pre-emptive attack" mode.

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It could be worse.... by Bob_Who · 2016-03-12 10:30 · Score: 1

...At least we didn't lose one of our own submarines...
1. Re:It could be worse.... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-12 10:43 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  Regardless of the politics, they ARE people. We should not dehumanize them. While the actions of North Korea may puzzle us, it would be better understood once one realizes that THEY lost over 500,000 fighting us in the 1950s, which pales in comparison to what is happening in Syria right now.
  I would hope there can be peace between US and THEM ... While we ridicule them, they have a deep resentment that can be weighed in human lives.
  ##
2. Re:It could be worse.... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-12 10:57 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  Wow. Really? Lost 500k people huh. You do know that they could have lost 0 people, if they hadn't tried taking over the entire peninsula and subjecting all of its people to poverty, misery, and repression. The 20/20 hindsight that we can and should use in this case teaches us that there was nothing right about violently instituting a communist regime in Korea.
  Many Koreans and Chinese gave their lives in an effort to ruins the lives of millions. It's a shame they only lost 500k . . . maybe had more died, their regime would have collapsed back in the 50s, and the Korean peninsula wouldn't be subject to the living hell that the North suffers every day.
3. Re:It could be worse.... by 93+Escort+Wagon · 2016-03-12 11:10 · Score: 1
  
  Wow, that was a superb proof of the parent post's fundamental point - cleverly disguised as a mindless rant!
  
  --
  #DeleteChrome
4. Re:It could be worse.... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-12 11:20 · Score: 1
  
  The 20/20 hindsight that we can and should use in this case teaches us that there was nothing right about violently instituting a communist regime in Korea.
  If that's the case, you should also figure that out about the regime changes in Haiti, Iran, Cuba, Hawaii, Samoa, Panama, Honduras, Iraq, Libya...
5. Re:It could be worse.... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-12 11:27 · Score: 0
  
  Wow. Really? Lost 500k people huh. You do know that they could have lost 0 people, if they hadn't tried taking over the entire peninsula and subjecting all of its people to poverty, misery, and repression. The 20/20 hindsight that we can and should use in this case teaches us that there was nothing right about violently instituting a communist regime in Korea.
  Many Koreans and Chinese gave their lives in an effort to ruins the lives of millions. It's a shame they only lost 500k . . . maybe had more died, their regime would have collapsed back in the 50s, and the Korean peninsula wouldn't be subject to the living hell that the North suffers every day.
  But they aren't white, so that's OK for them to do and it's a shame they lost to the pale faced imperials.
6. Re:It could be worse.... by dsmatthews9379 · 2016-03-12 12:01 · Score: 1
  
  Don't kid yourself, it isn't about any of that, it is about a small gang of psychopaths that have gained control of a larger group of very naive people and those psychopaths know that there can never be peace until they are dead because they have committed so many crimes against humanity that the world will hold them to account if they are captured. They can only travel in relative safety to China, otherwise the NK regime are trapped in a prison of their own making and the walls are only growing higher as they actively work on being able to pose a greater and greater threat to the innocent humans in the countries surrounding them. Do you know who is indirectly most threatened by the NK nuclear program? Over a billion Chinese who will be exposed to the nuclear fallout from any conflict initiated by NK.
7. Re:It could be worse.... by epyT-R · 2016-03-12 12:12 · Score: 2
  
  Andre...You've lost ANOTHER submarine?
8. Re:It could be worse.... by superwiz · 2016-03-12 12:14 · Score: 0
  
  Why? They are not part of a world wide organization hell-bent on subjugating and mercilessly killing people. The Communist Empire has disbanded. It didn't at the time and it was worth-while opposing it. Communism is the largest murderous philosophy to have ever existed (by body count). The 2nd being Fascism and 3rd environmentalism. 50,000 dead compared to how many of their own people North Korea starved by being Communist... Well, that's 500,000 dead North Koreans to save millions South Koreans. 2 million North Koreans died just from "famine" (Communist lingo for mismanagement) just in the 1990s. By comparison, South Korea is one of most technologically advanced countries in the world today. Same people. Just a difference of politics. Yeah, if ever there was a righteous war which went right it was protecting South Korea from the North.
  
  --
  Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
9. Re:It could be worse.... by superwiz · 2016-03-12 12:17 · Score: 1
  
  Don't kid yourself, it isn't about any of that, it is about a small gang of psychopaths that have gained control of a larger group of very naive people and those psychopaths know that there can never be peace until they are dead because they have committed so many crimes against humanity that the world will hold them to account if they are captured.
  That describes every Communist or adamantly Socialist regime.
  
  --
  Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
10. Re:It could be worse.... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-12 12:44 · Score: 0
  
  nice strawman.
11. Re:It could be worse.... by Camel+Pilot · 2016-03-12 12:46 · Score: 1
  
  3rd environmentalism.
  
  Environmentalism? Murderous philosophy? Say what?
  And I noticed that religion doesn't even rate in your mind as a rational to murder your neighbor.
12. Re:It could be worse.... by superwiz · 2016-03-12 12:48 · Score: 0
  
  There is no religion which has claimed over 40 million victims. Environmentalism has.
  
  --
  Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
13. Re:It could be worse.... by Plus1Entropy · 2016-03-12 13:42 · Score: 1
  
  Citation?
  
  --
  Only crack the nuts that crack. You don't put the ones that don't crack in the sack.
14. Re:It could be worse.... by The+Evil+Atheist · 2016-03-12 13:43 · Score: 1
  
  Or a libertarian regime.
  
  --
  Those who do not learn from commit history are doomed to regress it.
15. Re:It could be worse.... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-12 13:53 · Score: 0
  
  Bah, they are Communist in name only. They are clearly a dictatorship.
16. Re:It could be worse.... by ChunderDownunder · 2016-03-12 14:35 · Score: 1
  
  You do know that they could have lost 0 people, if they hadn't tried taking over the entire peninsula and subjecting all of its people to poverty, misery, and repression. The 20/20 hindsight that we can and should use in this case
  20/20 hindsight would have had Stalin and Truman not fucking over Korea by partitioning it into 2 rival states in the first place.
17. Re:It could be worse.... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-12 15:05 · Score: 1
  
  Trillions have died because they couldn't burn tires to stay warm.
  Meanwhile people starving to death in Capitalist countries don't count against Capitalism. Capitalism doesn't promise to give everyone what they need, so starving the poor is Working as Designed.
18. Re:It could be worse.... by sumdumass · 2016-03-12 15:12 · Score: 1
  
  All communism devolves into dictatorship. The authoritarian aspects are neccesity when i decide I want more or want to work less or keep what I earn. Greed and laziness doesn't magically disappear. All participants need to either voluntarily participate or be forced to else removed from the system.
19. Re:It could be worse.... by unixisc · 2016-03-12 15:37 · Score: 1
  
  ...At least we didn't lose one of our own submarines...
  Yeah, they make it sound like Pyongyang missing a submarine is a bad thing
20. Re:It could be worse.... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-12 16:00 · Score: 0
  
  Seems she ran aground on manoeuvres...
21. Re:It could be worse.... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-12 16:03 · Score: 0
  
  The records are not good about the start of the war. It's possible the South started it.
  We have good satellites, independent media, people with camera-phones everywhere, etc. now. That was not the case at the start of the war. And there was not a single actor in the whole thing whose story can be trusted. MacArthur, for example, was lying like a rug from day one, as the contradictions between his internal records and his press statements make painfully obvious.
  Is the North Korean leadership stupid, petty, venal, and heartless? Yes. Was Rhee the good guy in all this? Maybe not.
22. Re:It could be worse.... by bjwest · 2016-03-12 16:11 · Score: 2
  
  Christianity wiped out entire civilizations of the Americas and Africa, killing the vast majority of them because they were not "human". Counting the many millions killed in the name of one god or another, religion, it could easily be argued, has killed more people than any other unnatural source since the dawn of religion.
  
  --
  
  --- Keep the choice with the user..
23. Re:It could be worse.... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-12 16:12 · Score: 0
  
  I think you're wrong. You're dead right about them being sociopaths, but I think they're not at all frightened. They don't want change because their system works for them. They're VERY HAPPY with the situation.
  Which is why I don't think, though they make a LOT of scary noises, they'll ever actually re-initiate the war. It's not ideology. It's not frightened self-preservation. It's convenience and comfort. But by the same coin, they'll never initiate real peace. They'll never stop sabre-rattling. They need that to keep up the status quo.
  (Also, I think the prevailing winds, the body of water between China and SK, and the incredibly small size of the NK nukes leaves China quite safe, thank you very much.)
24. Re:It could be worse.... by bjwest · 2016-03-12 16:16 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  I'm not sure if you've been following things lately, but her in the U.S., we're devolving into a dictatorship as well. So far, it's been government agencies becoming the dictators, but given the way we're going, I give us less than 50 years before we're an actual dictatorship, or a group of small dictatorships ruled over by our regional corporate dictators.
  
  --
  
  --- Keep the choice with the user..
25. Re:It could be worse.... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-12 17:34 · Score: 0
  
  People who can't spell and/or are easily triggered are OUTRAGED!
26. Re:It could be worse.... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-12 17:50 · Score: 0
  
  Christianity wiped out entire civilizations of the Americas and Africa, killing the vast majority of them because they were not "human". Counting the many millions killed in the name of one god or another, religion, it could easily be argued, has killed more people than any other unnatural source since the dawn of religion.
  Really? I didn't know small pox was a tenent of Christianity.
  Your comment implies intent; most of South and Central America was wiped out by disease, not by Christianity.
27. Re:It could be worse.... by cyn1c77 · 2016-03-12 18:03 · Score: 1
  
  Regardless of the politics, they ARE people. We should not dehumanize them.
  Actually, they are soldiers of a country whose leader just said that he was going to nuke the US and South Korea, who routinely tries to kill South Korean sailors, who is technically still at war with South Korea, and who routinely lobs missiles over Japan just to show off.
  So I think that a "better them than us" attitude is warranted.
28. Re:It could be worse.... by kenwd0elq · 2016-03-12 18:04 · Score: 1
  
  Rachel Carson, "Silent Spring", and the banning of DDT. Malaria was contained, virtually extinct, and the banning of DDT has killed millions of African and South American children by allowing malaria to spread again.
  Yeah, I think "environmentalism" is a shoo-in for 3rd place.
29. Re:It could be worse.... by meerling · 2016-03-12 18:30 · Score: 1
  
  I don't think anyone in the world has ever come close to dehumanizing the people of North Korea nearly as much as the Government of North Korea.
30. Re:It could be worse.... by meerling · 2016-03-12 18:32 · Score: 1
  
  It's the ruling elite that don't want to change, of course, they are only a tiny minority in the entire country, but they tend to execute or disappear those that voice disagreement to anything they're doing.
31. Re:It could be worse.... by Aighearach · 2016-03-12 19:36 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah, at first I was worried we were missing one of their submarines.
  Too bad we can't rescue them, though.
32. Re:It could be worse.... by AchilleTalon · 2016-03-12 19:38 · Score: 1
  
  This Sunday, Supreme court of China has just released a report to tell they found 1 232 000 out of 1 233 039 people they had charges against were found guilty. That's about 99,92%, in summary, if you are charged in China, you have almost no chance to be found innocent.In 2014, it was 99,93%. Yes, they are trying to improve the situation, but the courts are corrupted and in the hands of the Communist party.
  Now, imagine in North Korea where no one wants to improve anything on this side.
  
  --
  Achille Talon
  Hop!
33. Re:It could be worse.... by rtb61 · 2016-03-12 21:13 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  Factually speaking there has never been communism. Communism as implemented in Stalinism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... and Maoism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/..., was purely branding when called communism, nothing more. As for environmentalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/..., seriously?!? As for the politics of North Korea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/..., so not communism either. Capitalism kills every single year of it's existence, including wars for profit and a speciality famine, in fact it is accepted that capitalism had its origin in slavery.
  Fact is no political system ever survives the psychology of psychopathy and that genetic cerebral defect will corrupt every possible political system over which the gain influence and or control. Capitalism of course can far more accurately be described as psychopathic capitalism as it does reflect the psychology of psychopathy expressed as a socio economic structure.
  
  --
  Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
34. Re:It could be worse.... by serviscope_minor · 2016-03-12 21:41 · Score: 1
  
  That's complete bullshit.
  "They" aren't responsible for this: the actions of NK are nothing to do with the "people" and the lives of grandparents who were lost. It's entirely to do with a very small, powerful ruling class.
  While the actions of North Korea may puzzle us
  Not really. The Kim-* * ruling dynasty want to keep their power to maintain their luxury lifestyle, and they don't care how many people get hurt in the process. This is not some power struggle between the plucky downtrodden communists and their memories of half a million dead loved ones, this is a family of psychopaths maitaining their powerbase at the expense of a few million people.
  
  --
  SJW n. One who posts facts.
35. Re:It could be worse.... by serviscope_minor · 2016-03-12 21:45 · Score: 1
  
  Communism is the largest murderous philosophy to have ever existed (by body count). The 2nd being Fascism and 3rd environmentalism.
  Apparently it's a logical fallacy to declare the conculsions of an argument as wrong simply because the premise is wrong. However, I don't think it's a logical fallacy to read enough at the beginning to flip the bozo bit and abandon the post before reading any further.
  Environmentalism?
  
  --
  SJW n. One who posts facts.
36. Re:It could be worse.... by CrimsonAvenger · 2016-03-12 22:20 · Score: 1
  
  20/20 hindsight would have had Stalin and Truman not fucking over Korea by partitioning it into 2 rival states in the first place.
  Well, given that Uncle Joe wasn't about to let the whole of Korea be occupied by the West (read: USA), your solution would have been to let the whole country become a Soviet satellite?
  Yeah, that worked really well for Eastern Europe, so we should have used that system everywhere....
  
  --
  
  "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
37. Re:It could be worse.... by serviscope_minor · 2016-03-12 22:23 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  This is interesting. You clearly hold your views very strongly. I wonder if your views will change when presented with evidence to the contrary or if you will find a new way to rationalise your views.
  1. DDT was never banned as a method for controlling disease vectors and is still in use to keep malarial mosquitos suppressed. Here's an article about the treaty banning DDT
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
  Feel free to find the article text and verify that as of Annex B, Part 1, that DDT is in fact still allowed for malaria control.
  2. Widespread indiscriminant use of insecticides is a terrible idea because resistance to the insecticides devlops. And in fact resistance in mosquitos has developed. If you want to make sure it remains as potent as possible an insecticide for malaria control, about the best thing you can do is ban it for everything except malaria control. That way there is less opportunity for resistance to develop, and given that agriculture used far, far more DDT than disease control, it's agriculture that was responsible for the majority of the devlopment of DDT resistance.
  So there you have it, you're actually wrong about DDT on two counts.
  
  --
  SJW n. One who posts facts.
38. Re:It could be worse.... by CrimsonAvenger · 2016-03-12 22:26 · Score: 1
  
  Hmm, Thresher and Scorpion are still in "port and starboard", last I checked.
  Note, for those who aren't aware of Navy slang, "port and starboard" is (among its other uses) slang for "standing one watch in two". Whenever a boat comes even close to sinking, the expression used is "trying to take Thresher and Scorpion out of port and starboard"....
  
  --
  
  "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
39. Re:It could be worse.... by mrchaotica · 2016-03-13 00:29 · Score: 1
  
  And what is that percentage in the US?
  
  --
  "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
40. Re:It could be worse.... by um...+Lucas · 2016-03-13 01:04 · Score: 1
  
  OK, now you're getting more and more zanny
  Back at the time of the Korean war, it was the North that was the more advanced state, and the South were the peasants. And, we fought against communism, not "for" the South Koreans - evidenced by the string of strong men that held power until only recent times. Unless you're going to get heavily revisionist, the U.S. wasn't in Korea fighting for the freedom of the South, only push back against Communist Russian and China.
  Besides which, where are these 40 million victims of environmentalism?
41. Re:It could be worse.... by drinkypoo · 2016-03-13 01:38 · Score: 2
  
  "They" aren't responsible for this: the actions of NK are nothing to do with the "people" and the lives of grandparents who were lost. It's entirely to do with a very small, powerful ruling class.
  Strongly disagree. They are responsible for what is done in their name that they do not stop, just as we are responsible for what is done in our name that we do not stop. Thus, you and I share responsibility for drone murder, attempted genocide in Panama, funding the ongoing attempted genocide in Israel, etc. Pretending otherwise is candy-assed bullshit.
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
42. Re:It could be worse.... by ultranova · 2016-03-13 01:40 · Score: 1
  
  All communism devolves into dictatorship. The authoritarian aspects are neccesity when i decide I want more or want to work less or keep what I earn. Greed and laziness doesn't magically disappear. All participants need to either voluntarily participate or be forced to else removed from the system.
  
  It follows that every economic system devolves into dictatorship. They are all composed of the interactions of these same greedy and lazy people who only work if forced to and thus must do just that, after all.
  
  --
  Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.
43. Re:It could be worse.... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-13 02:51 · Score: 0
  
  "the US Department of Justice reported a 93% conviction rate."
  State courts come in at " 84% in Texas, 82% in California, 72% in New York, 67% in North Carolina, and 59% in Florida."
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conviction_rate
44. Re:It could be worse.... by superwiz · 2016-03-13 04:22 · Score: 2
  
  Christians wiping out civilizations is not the same as Christianity wiping out those civilizations. The root cause of the genocide was empire building rather than following the precepts of Christianity. Which is not to say that Christianity was not root cause of some slaughter both in Europe and in the Western hemisphere. But, if you go purely by body count, Christianity would not rise to the level of murder rate of environmentalism even if you did blame it for the full genocide of the native Americans. The Western Hemisphere population was roughly 10mil at the time because there was no animals usable as work force to create farming societies. Even if you assume that 90% were killed, that would be over centuries and would be far cry from the dozens of millions killed by environmentalists in the 20th century.
  
  --
  Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
45. Re:It could be worse.... by superwiz · 2016-03-13 04:25 · Score: 0
  
  If you go purely by body count (rather than percentage of the entire human population at the time of the slaughter), all religions combined did not kill as many people as environmentalists.
  
  --
  Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
46. Re:It could be worse.... by superwiz · 2016-03-13 04:27 · Score: 2
  
  starvation is a much lesser occurance in capitalist countries than in any other system of social arrangement. in fact, over eating is a higher cause of health problems and is more associated with being poor than starvation in capitalist countries.
  
  --
  Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
47. Re:It could be worse.... by superwiz · 2016-03-13 04:30 · Score: 1
  
  if i had even a smallest inkling that you were asking for citation out of intellectual rigor, i would take the time to google it myself. but since i have no doubt that you just want to nitpick the sources, go look it up yourself.
  
  --
  Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
48. Re:It could be worse.... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-13 05:09 · Score: 0
  
  It appears the last atom in your brain just split.
49. Re:It could be worse.... by rochrist · 2016-03-13 05:17 · Score: 1
  
  No kidding. But try convincing idiot trolls like him.
50. Re:It could be worse.... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-13 05:50 · Score: 0
  
  Not sure if you've been following things lately, but one of the billionaires that are currently jockying for the preidential position have already started having American citizens arrested for talking loudly in ways that they don't like. These people that are jockying for this position, are not yet elected, and have in no way any right(s) that regular citizens don't have, and in fact, they're just regular citizens like the rest of us, yet they can have someone arrested for talking loudly in a way that they don't like. I get it, it's a private function, but still... think of it like a resturaunt. If you don't like the food, and you stand up and say "This food tastes really bad!" and the owner calls the cops and has you arrested. Dictatorship is exactly what America is already, and that's why these people jocky so hard to be the president.
51. Re:It could be worse.... by Jonner · 2016-03-13 14:09 · Score: 1
  
  Regardless of the politics, they ARE people. We should not dehumanize them. While the actions of North Korea may puzzle us, it would be better understood once one realizes that THEY lost over 500,000 fighting us in the 1950s, which pales in comparison to what is happening in Syria right now.
  I would hope there can be peace between US and THEM ... While we ridicule them, they have a deep resentment that can be weighed in human lives.
  ##
  Who dehumanized whom? Many Koreans, Americans and people of other nationalities died in the war that paused over six decades ago. It was a terrible war that resulted in a stalemate in which nobody ended up looking good. The Soviets and Chinese supported one brutal dictatorship and the US/UN supported another. However, the South Koreans, Americans and everyone else has moved on. The South Koreans have thrown off their dictators and even tried to build economic ties with the North. What deserves ridicule is the perpetually provocative stance of the North Korean government, calculated to get attention and more appeasement deals. Ridiculing ludicrous claims about targeting the White House does not dehumanize the North Korean people who can't question anything they're told whether they want to or not.
52. Re:It could be worse.... by KGIII · 2016-03-13 15:24 · Score: 1
  
  I'll speculate that the subject is malaria and DDT.
  An interesting aside, and very related, is the additional studies that have since been done on DDT that show the first study done was actually based on faked data and the WHO has since started to re-introduce DDT to control mosquito populations.
  Where DDT does have a potential problem is that it stays resident in the soil for quite some time. DDT should not be used for agricultural purposes and the WHO makes no provisions for that but they do now allow/suggest/accept the use for controlling malaria outbreaks. Malaria has killed millions and the study that resulted in that lady's book was based on faked data. Not cool.
  
  --
  "So long and thanks for all the fish."
53. Re:It could be worse.... by bjwest · 2016-03-14 05:57 · Score: 1
  
  Christians wiping out civilizations is not the same as Christianity wiping out those civilizations. The root cause of the genocide was empire building rather than following the precepts of Christianity.
  That is utter bullshit. Christianity IS the Christians it's made up of. The expansion into the Americas was sanctioned by the church to spread the word of god to the heathens, the actual reason may have been to exploit the resources, but the justification was to promote Christianity. This makes it Christianity's responsibility.
  
  --
  
  --- Keep the choice with the user..
54. Re:It could be worse.... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-14 08:25 · Score: 0
  
  Thanks. I was planning to take it to burning man this year.
  
  But my straw man's tour aside, that doesn't change the fact that many will let slide NK's actions because they are not Americans or Western Europeans, nor are they allied with either.
55. Re:It could be worse.... by Plus1Entropy · 2016-03-14 12:33 · Score: 1
  
  Wow, you sure are full of things that you "have no doubt" about. As we all know, the truest measure of intelligence is certainty. After all, didn't Socrates say "All I know is that everything I know is true."? /s
  Although I was doubtful of your statement, my request for a citation was genuine, you could have simply said "look up the DDT ban and it's affect on the spread of malaria". But apparently you would rather spend the time (and more words) trying to feel superior.
  A for Arrogance.
  
  --
  Only crack the nuts that crack. You don't put the ones that don't crack in the sack.
56. Re:It could be worse.... by Plus1Entropy · 2016-03-14 12:52 · Score: 1
  
  Thank you. I'm sure superwiz would have said the same, but he was too busy fitting his asshole for a new pole.
  I had never heard of the affect of the DDT ban on the spread of malaria before. Obviously I had heard of the ban, and a causal link between the 2 makes sense, but I had just been ignorant of the issue and it's scale before this.
  I still find the comment "Environmentalism has killed 40 million people." to be inflammatory at best, and certainly not informative in any way. Especially given the context of the original statement, lumping it into a group with the Communist Empire and Fascism. Godwin's Law in action I suppose.
  
  --
  Only crack the nuts that crack. You don't put the ones that don't crack in the sack.
May they.. by carld · 2016-03-12 10:31 · Score: 1

R.I.P.
1. Re:May they.. by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-12 13:55 · Score: 0
  
  No... Wait till they send the international signal of distress then do what you can to help. Other than that... Well yea... R.I.P.
  Captcha... invoke
sure it's missing by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-12 10:33 · Score: 0

Another Hunt for Red October scenario?
"You've lost another submarine?"
1. Re:sure it's missing by BigFire · 2016-03-12 11:13 · Score: 1
  
  Another Hunt for Red October scenario?
  "You've lost another submarine?"
  I was thinking of Under Siege where the rogue operative stole the sub.
2. Re:sure it's missing by ArmoredDragon · 2016-03-12 12:12 · Score: 1
  
  Since it's a North Korean sub, I was thinking somebody knocked on the hatch.
3. Re:sure it's missing by Joe_Dragon · 2016-03-12 14:27 · Score: 1
  
  Next thing you hear is the last words from a US sub will be why is a american submarine shooting a russian torpedo
4. Re:sure it's missing by meerling · 2016-03-12 18:37 · Score: 1
  
  Maybe it's more like Bahama Vacation.
  
  Wouldn't it be funny if they had been captured and evacuated by somebody else. Totally overwhelmed and completely unharmed, then put up in a nice and comfortable, but secure, modern location to enjoy a week or two off before they get put back in their sub and allowed to return to port?
  There'd be some statement about communication issues, or maybe more bullshit claims about NK superscientist developed a new submarine cloaking device that runs on unicorn poop or something. But of course, their leaders would be scared shitless by an event like this and know they have absolutely no chance to win, no matter how much LSD they do. And as to the crew that went through that, they'd be a hell of a lot more likely to say F it, and defect if they got the chance.
  That could make a great movie, I'm thinking comedy. :P
Kim Jong-un no doubt has a different story by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-12 10:33 · Score: 4, Funny

Can't wait to here it. Probably something about it being the worlds greatest stealth submarine that even NK can't see it.
1. Re:Kim Jong-un no doubt has a different story by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-12 10:45 · Score: 0
  
  Worst case is he claims USA or ROK sank it using cover of their ongoing military exercises, and uses that reasoning to make an attack. Doesn't matter if they really lost a submarine or not.
2. Re:Kim Jong-un no doubt has a different story by MichaelSmith · 2016-03-12 10:50 · Score: 1
  
  Picture of NK submarine. Pretty sure this sub sunk on its own.
  
  --
  http://michaelsmith.id.au
3. Re:Kim Jong-un no doubt has a different story by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-12 11:35 · Score: 0
  
  More likely he'll blame the USA or South Korea for sinking it ... in a treacherous, unprovoked attack no doubt.
4. Re:Kim Jong-un no doubt has a different story by R3d+M3rcury · 2016-03-12 11:44 · Score: 1
  
  Bye-Bye Empire, Bye-Bye.
5. Re:Kim Jong-un no doubt has a different story by Deadstick · 2016-03-12 11:57 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  Here's a picture with better perspective: https://www.rt.com/news/313141...
  I suspect that protuberance with the windows is an enclosed bridge for conning the boat in cold weather, and not part of the pressure hull...diesel boats have to spend a lot of time running on the surface.
6. Re:Kim Jong-un no doubt has a different story by gordguide · 2016-03-12 13:13 · Score: 2
  
  Here's a picture with better perspective: https://www.rt.com/news/313141...
  I suspect that protuberance with the windows is an enclosed bridge for conning the boat in cold weather, and not part of the pressure hull...diesel boats have to spend a lot of time running on the surface.
  True, but another inherent property of Diesel-Electric submarines is they can operate submerged in extreme silence ... nuclear subs make a very small but detectible amount of noise at all times underwater ... which in this case might be a contributing factor in the overall uncertainty on both sides, as to whet, exactly, is going on (such as "is it simply damaged, or sunk, or what, exactly").
  On another topic raised here (regarding the possibility that the Democratic People's Republic of Korea (DPRK, aka "North Korea") might blame the west for a sinking of the sub), there is the problem in that there is a fine line that must be drawn with regard to what sanctions and what incentives can be applied or offered to North Korea in order to moderate it's behaviour.
  The problem is you can't go too hard because as a generally regarded rogue nation, you don't know how desperately they would hold onto power or (essentially) how many lives they would be willing to risk in order to maintain their control over the nation, and presumably, beyond. Blaming the USA, Korea (aka "South Korea") or Japan, etc is a near perfect pretence to escalation and who-knows-what aggressive action.
7. Re:Kim Jong-un no doubt has a different story by Dutch+Gun · 2016-03-12 14:38 · Score: 1
  
  True, but another inherent property of Diesel-Electric submarines is they can operate submerged in extreme silence ... nuclear subs make a very small but detectible amount of noise at all times underwater ...
  When you talk about noisy nuke subs, you can talk about China's or India's, but the US has had many decades to eliminate those sorts of emanation and are extremely proficient at doing so. Eventually that will change as other nations reach parity with the US or Russia, but at the moment, I wouldn't be surprised if US nukes like the Virginia class are actually even quieter than a NK diesel, at least when it's moving.
  
  --
  Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
8. Re:Kim Jong-un no doubt has a different story by Deadstick · 2016-03-12 15:13 · Score: 1
  
  Blaming the USA, Korea (aka "South Korea") or Japan, etc is a near perfect pretence to escalation and who-knows-what aggressive action.
  Aggressive actions are preceded by pretenses when the actor has some hope of maintaining relations with uninvolved parties, or at least giving them an excuse for not intervening. Far as I can see, nobody's going to be fooled, and NK's only motivation for not taking action is the prospect of retribution.
9. Re:Kim Jong-un no doubt has a different story by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-12 18:01 · Score: 0
  
  well, the reactors make noise circulating the coolant, if nothing else. the batteries on a diesel boat make no noise. so ISO-tech-level, a nuclear powered sub is going to make more noise than a diesel. but i wouldn't be surprised either if the Virginia class was quieter than whatever the DPRK has assembled.
10. Re:Kim Jong-un no doubt has a different story by meerling · 2016-03-12 18:44 · Score: 1
  
  When the diesel is underwater it's running on battery power, rather limited. To run the diesel engine they either have to surface, or I've heard of some using a snorkel device, but it has a very limited depth that can be used at. (And no, a longer snorkel doesn't work).
  Of course, there is lots of noise from the turbulence from the body of the sub itself, and especially from the props.
  There has been development on alternate propulsion methods that are inherently quieter, but as far as the governments will admit, it's just ideas and not actual hardware.
  Of course, there is North Koreans known skill at working with state of the art cutting edge sciences and technologies. So, about 20 years after you can buy a kit using it in your local ToysRus, NK might have a semi-functioning prototype.
11. Re:Kim Jong-un no doubt has a different story by fnj · 2016-03-12 19:31 · Score: 2
  
  It's been a long, long time since snorkels were any kind of novelty. They are definitely the norm for recharging the batteries, certainly in conflict or training for conflict; and surfacing like in the WW II movies is the rarity. Of course you are limited to periscope depth while snorkeling - the conning tower being barely below the surface. And of course it is noisy, DOES have a non-zero radar cross-section, and releases exhaust that can be sniffed.
  There is such a thing as air independent propulsion now, also. Basically the sub carries oxidizer for its power plant. If the power plant is a diesel engine, then it's still noisy, but if it's a fuel cell, you're shit out of luck trying to hear it.
  Nuclear power is _comparatively_ noisy. You have a steam plant with circulating pumps, that can NEVER be shut off, for heaven's sake. An outstandingly quieted US nuke is a lot quieter than a 2-bit amateur job - the newer British and probably French are very good also - the Russians are getting a lot better since the breakup. But ANY of them is noisier than a WW II antique on battery power creeping at low speed.
12. Re:Kim Jong-un no doubt has a different story by Aighearach · 2016-03-12 19:37 · Score: 1
  
  Well, at least then it would finally get settled.
13. Re:Kim Jong-un no doubt has a different story by CrimsonAvenger · 2016-03-12 22:32 · Score: 2
  
  I wouldn't be surprised if US nukes like the Virginia class are actually even quieter than a NK diesel, at least when it's moving.
  Note that it's easier to find a Virginia-class boat by listening for places that there are NO FISH NOISES than by listening for submarine noises. The Virginia-class is actually quieter than ambient - it sounds like a hole in the water....
  
  --
  
  "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
14. Re:Kim Jong-un no doubt has a different story by drinkypoo · 2016-03-13 01:41 · Score: 1
  
  But ANY of them is noisier than a WW II antique on battery power creeping at low speed.
  Is that really true? Hasn't prop or baffle design improved since then?
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
15. Re:Kim Jong-un no doubt has a different story by Dutch+Gun · 2016-03-13 02:14 · Score: 1
  
  I doubt that WWII subs would hold up to modern scrutiny, even at relatively slow speeds. Our detection capabilities have probably improved a thousand-fold or more in the last half century, and that might even be an underestimation.
  A staggering amount of R&D has gone into optimizing hull surfaces / shapes and prop designs to minimize cavitation and other emissions, so it's not just the noise of the powerplants that are factors. I'm not sure if they do this any more, but at one time US submarine prop designs were highly guarded secrets, and kept covered when out of the water.
  
  --
  Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
16. Re:Kim Jong-un no doubt has a different story by Deadstick · 2016-03-14 06:09 · Score: 1
  
  Two more downsides to snorkeling:
  -The boat's own passive/active sonar is near-useless when the diesels are running.
  -Waves washing over the snorkel "hat" close its induction valve and cause a suction hit on the crew's eardrums. Post-WW2 boats have a pressure buffer arrangement that mitigates this somewhat, but it still isn't a fun ride.
17. Re:Kim Jong-un no doubt has a different story by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-14 09:56 · Score: 0
  
  Doubtless the captain of this missing submarine attempted to follow the "navigation pointers" they were given last year by the Great Leader.
  That one was so funny it was milk shooting out of nose level comedy! The Great Leader giving navigation lessons to a Navy Captain. What's next, the Great Leader giving gun teardown lessons to grunt in the Army? Why not give planting advice to a farmer? I know, the Great Leader needs to give crying lessons to a baby!
  Hey, look, these people can't be expected to know their jobs you know, or how to live their lives. Only the Great Leader knows that.
diversion? by djent · 2016-03-12 10:47 · Score: 1

Or maybe this just a diversion from the DOD-Apple debacle. Seems the prez has gone "all in" on this and didn't expect the feedback he got. Nothing like an implied nuclear attack, from CNN, to divert attention.
1. Re:diversion? by gtall · 2016-03-12 11:31 · Score: 1
  
  Stop watching TV, it is bad for you.
2. Re:diversion? by murdocj · 2016-03-12 11:39 · Score: 1
  
  what about the grassy knoll?
3. Re:diversion? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-12 11:54 · Score: 0
  
  back and to the left . . . back and to the left
Deja by rmdingler · 2016-03-12 10:47 · Score: 1

My favorite movie quote for having a WOMD go missing is from Broken Arrow:
I don't know what's scarier, losing nuclear weapons, or that it happens so often there's actually a term for it.
Looking at you, octubre Rojo...

--
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.
Ernest Hemingway
1. Re:Deja by Ungrounded+Lightning · 2016-03-12 12:30 · Score: 1
  
  from Broken Arrow:
  I don't know what's scarier, losing nuclear weapons, or that it happens so often there's actually a term for it.
  
  Knowing just a bit about military planning, I'd be surprised if the term for it wasn't coined and detailed plans made LONG before any weapons were actually lost.
  
  --
  Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
2. Re:Deja by CanadianMacFan · 2016-03-12 13:10 · Score: 1
  
  There's the term that they came up for it long before it happened and then there's the term that came about from the people repeatedly cleaning up the mess. The second term is usually much more accurate and colourful.
3. Re:Deja by rmdingler · 2016-03-12 13:17 · Score: 1
  
  The insider term... the boots on the ground term...
  almost never the same as the term handed down through appropriate channels.
  This is a term of familiarity, which often delineates the authenticity of your claimed participation.
  
  --
  Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.
  Ernest Hemingway
4. Re:Deja by meerling · 2016-03-12 18:48 · Score: 1
  
  Broken Arrow, Bent Spear, and Dull Sword.
  I suspect all 3 terms, they are for different types of issues relating to that, were developed before an incident actually occurred.
  Though it seems likely at least one of them was after, but it's not like there's a unclassified history file on that kind of thing. :P
  To any of the paranoid out there, those terms are all known to the public, even if the incidents probably aren't. Hmmm... I wonder if anyone has stuck them on Wikipedia yet.
5. Re:Deja by fnj · 2016-03-12 19:39 · Score: 1
  
  My own favorite quote is from The Peacemaker. It's something to the effect of "Do you know what worries me all to hell? Someone who only wants to steal ONE nuclear weapon". Because it's pretty obvious what that guy has generally in mind.
6. Re:Deja by Not-a-Neg · 2016-03-14 03:14 · Score: 1
  
  My favorite was always Red October, when speaking to the Russian Ambassador: "Andrei, you've lost another submarine?"
  
  --
  -==- Buy a Mac and leave me alone!
Meanwhile by DontHackMeBro · 2016-03-12 10:52 · Score: 1

Russia makes nuclear threats against our allies and yet, we still hold meetings with them and recognize their Mafia cartel as a legitimate government.
1. Re:Meanwhile by Blaskowicz · 2016-03-12 12:17 · Score: 0
  
  Meanwhile Turkey is using artillery againt Syrian territory despite being uninvited to do so.
  Nothing makes fucking sense in that war. Anyway the war was started by the US five years ago, against an ally of Russia.
2. Re:Meanwhile by superwiz · 2016-03-12 12:22 · Score: 1
  
  Uhm... I don't believe we currently recognize Russian government as legitimate. We recognize it as ruling. Legitimate? Not quite. It's asserted sovereignty (not the right to occupy... but sovereignty) over a number of territories which we do not recognize as belonging to RF. And neither does the UN.
  
  --
  Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
3. Re:Meanwhile by CanEHdian · 2016-03-12 15:22 · Score: 1
  
  Turkey is getting billions and billions of Euros from the European taxpayers in exchange for a 1:1 refugee exchange program and lifting visa requirements for its citizens. What are they going to spend that money on? Weapons.
  
  --
  When the copyright term is "forever minus a day", live every day like it's the last.
4. Re:Meanwhile by meerling · 2016-03-12 18:49 · Score: 1
  
  Have you ever tried to hold a meeting with North Korea?
  Yeah, neither have I, but we both can read about the many historical attempts at such.
  I don't know about you, but I have. For all that it matters, NK would have been more reasonable at most of those meetings if they'd have sent a rabid mime.
5. Re:Meanwhile by Chris+Mattern · 2016-03-13 02:19 · Score: 2
  
  Uhm... I don't believe we currently recognize Russian government as legitimate. We recognize it as ruling.
  The two are not separable. If you recognize a government as ruling, you recognize it as legitimate. We most certainly do recognize the Russian government as legitimate--there are embassies and everything. (The current Russian ambassador to the US is Sergey Ivanovich Kislyak, and the current US ambassador to Russia is John Francis Tefft). We don't recognize their annexation of certain territories, most notably the Crimean peninsula, but that's a different matter. With the re-establishment of relations with Cuba, there aren't many governments in de facto power we don't recognize. Taiwan's the most important; we had to withdraw our recognition in order to establish relations with the People's Republic of China.
6. Re:Meanwhile by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-13 05:15 · Score: 0
  
  Heh, it's like trying to argue with a leftist.
7. Re:Meanwhile by superwiz · 2016-03-13 13:59 · Score: 1
  
  Uhm... I don't believe we currently recognize Russian government as legitimate. We recognize it as ruling.
  The two are not separable.
  Without passing any moral judgement on whether or not it should or should not be that way, I would say that it most certainly is not the case. Case in point: ISIS might be in control of certain Iraqi cities, but we still view those cities as Iraqi and would not honor any passport issued by ISIS as a legal document.
  
  We don't recognize their annexation of certain territories, most notably the Crimean peninsula, but that's a different matter.
  Not to RF. They designated Sevastopol a "Federal City" -- a designation which it shares only with the current and previous capitals of Russia (Moscow and Saint Petersburg). Which passports should the governing officials from Sevastopol travel under? If we don't recognize them as RF officials, they can't have diplomatic immunity without Ukrainian request for such designation. The same goes for eastern Ukraine and northern Georgia. Both are de facto Russian territories -- ruled by RF. But even RF does not recognize them as officially governed by RF.
  
  The current Russian ambassador to the US is Sergey Ivanovich Kislyak, and the current US ambassador to Russia is John Francis Tefft
  I think if the current RF government wanted to enter into treaties which involve territories which they occupy, US would have to recognize the annexations as legitimate first. The less hypothetical situation of US officials travelling to any of those territories on official state business would probably require them to seek permission of both the occupying country and the occupied one.
  
  With the re-establishment of relations with Cuba, there aren't many governments in de facto power we don't recognize.
  ISIS
  
  --
  Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
Modern electric boats.. by niftymitch · 2016-03-12 10:54 · Score: 0

Modern diesel electric boats are very quiet and pose a challenge to those
that worry about such things.
They are so quiet that a failure could happen without notice
limiting the ability to provide aid. Politics can get in the way.
The impossible task of tracking these boats makes speculation
over the exact events more fantasy than fact.
Lets home it is simply a broken radio or corrupt encryption key
to be replaced with tomorrow's good secret key.

--
Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't. Mark Twain.
1. Re:Modern electric boats.. by MichaelSmith · 2016-03-12 11:10 · Score: 1
  
  Though this isn't a modern diesel electric boat. The US know exactly where it is.
  
  --
  http://michaelsmith.id.au
2. Re:Modern electric boats.. by Registered+Coward+v2 · 2016-03-12 11:17 · Score: 2
  
  Modern diesel electric boats are very quiet and pose a challenge to those that worry about such things.
  True, but I'm guessing this is one of their Romeo class because atsvwhich are quite old. At any rate, she would have had to snorkel at some point which would give away her location. That she hasn't doesn't bode well for her or her crew.
  
  --
  I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
3. Re:Modern electric boats.. by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-12 11:36 · Score: 0
  
  Define ‘modern’. Rumour has it that the missing sub is a Yono-class midget sub built in the late 60s.
4. Re:Modern electric boats.. by blindseer · 2016-03-12 12:33 · Score: 2
  
  Unless you know something about the US Navy capabilities that I don't I doubt this is true. The US Navy has trouble tracking it's own assets. There are incidents of the US Navy running into other vessels at sea, including their own, because they did not see them.
  This means that they cannot track vessels, in some cases, even if they could have reached out and touched them. Tracking a vessel many miles out is a much more difficult task.
  A tactic used by drug smugglers is to build a semi-submersible built much like a diesel electric submarine. They'd submerge to a level that just the head of the pilot and a breathing tube would stick out. Out in the open waters they'd be powered by an off the shelf V-8 diesel engine but when approaching the (usually California) coast they'd run on batteries so that they would not be detected by passing Coast Guard. The Coast Guard and Navy are in big ships with brightly colored flags while they are in a sub with just a tiny little bubble for the pilot's head sticking out, the pilot can see them for miles but the pursuers would have to be on top of them to see them. If these guys can build a machine capable of this from parts obtained from a Home Depot and a Ford dealership then the North Korean Navy can build a ship with the backing of the Russian and Chinese governments that can be undetected from miles away and under hundreds of meters under water.
  
  --
  I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
5. Re:Modern electric boats.. by The+Evil+Atheist · 2016-03-12 13:40 · Score: 1
  
  You Only Nuke Once?
  
  --
  Those who do not learn from commit history are doomed to regress it.
6. Re:Modern electric boats.. by gordguide · 2016-03-12 13:47 · Score: 2
  
  Modern diesel electric boats are very quiet and pose a challenge to those
  that worry about such things.
  True, but I'm guessing this is one of their Romeo class because atsvwhich are quite old. At any rate, she would have had to snorkel at some point which would give away her location. That she hasn't doesn't bode well for her or her crew.
  Still, the PDRK aka North Korea have been building submarines, including perhaps the world's greatest program developing some very small "midget" variants, for a very, very long time. Some require the assistance of a mother ship but the largest of the midget type, the Samg-O Class (crew of 15), can operate independently.
  It may also be a Sinpo Class (crew estimated of 30~50), the largest vessel and currently under active development to replace the Romeo Class. One has been observed under construction, others may be or have been built, and there is always the possibility of testing gone wrong.
  Along with artillery, it's probably the military technology that the North Korean domestic industry is most proficient at. Although understood to be still inferior to the most modern western designs, that does not mean impotent, and the quiet running ability of Diesel-Electric subs is far from new and well understood; a 1970's era (40 years ago) level is sufficient for excellent results.
7. Re:Modern electric boats.. by R3d+M3rcury · 2016-03-12 15:23 · Score: 1
  
  Nope. Y. Ono.
  It's not very quiet.
8. Re:Modern electric boats.. by meerling · 2016-03-12 18:54 · Score: 2
  
  And with all the knowledge already floating out there that a grad student in the USA has build a functional nuclear device that was only missing the fissionable material for it's core, and the fact that the USA made nukes with 1940s technology at a time period that even most scientist doubted it could be done, and North Korea has only in the last 2 years done anything that MIGHT be a nuclear detonation, but it was so wimpy compared to even the two used on Japan that the experts at analyzing this kind of stuff have publicly stated doubts about it having reached critical mass!
  So just because someone in this or another first or even second world country could do it with access to home depot, don't make bets that the NK can.
9. Re:Modern electric boats.. by meerling · 2016-03-12 18:56 · Score: 1
  
  That seems unlikely. Ask Japan for verification. :(
  Oh wait! I see, you were trying to make a James Bond reference joke.
  I wonder how many people got that.
10. Re:Modern electric boats.. by niftymitch · 2016-03-13 14:19 · Score: 1
  
  Though this isn't a modern diesel electric boat. The US know exactly where it is.
  Perhaps not...
  http://thediplomat.com/2015/12...
  This is Chinese but the success of the Chinese makes it obvious
  that modest priced diesel electric boats have capabilities worth
  exploring. Replace the lead acid batteries of a WW2 U-boat with
  modern Tesla class batteries and Tesla class electric motors
  and Bob's yer Uncle.
  The better class of milling machines and NC machine tools on the open
  market should allow building a quieter anything. No need for a
  pressure hull like a the Challenger Deep class hull.
  
  --
  Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't. Mark Twain.
Salvage rights? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-12 11:06 · Score: 0

Did this vessel become inoperable in international waters? If NK wants to save face by not officially declaring this vessel as wrecked they cannot expect it to be left alone under the Protection of Military Remains Act. I'm sure many nations would like to get a peek at the inner workings of this vessel.
1. Re:Salvage rights? by Registered+Coward+v2 · 2016-03-12 11:13 · Score: 1
  
  Did this vessel become inoperable in international waters? If NK wants to save face by not officially declaring this vessel as wrecked they cannot expect it to be left alone under the Protection of Military Remains Act. I'm sure many nations would like to get a peek at the inner workings of this vessel.
  I doubt anyone is interested in it. It probably is an ancient Romeo class, sold to a lot of countries.
  
  --
  I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
2. Re:Salvage rights? by Iamthecheese · 2016-03-12 11:16 · Score: 1
  
  I found the prototype
  
  --
  If video games influenced behavior the Pac Man generation would be eating pills and running away from their problems.
3. Re:Salvage rights? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-12 11:25 · Score: 0
  
  I found the prototype
  
  I, for one, am glad someone finally perfected submarine screen door technology.
In other news . . . by user+no.+590291 · 2016-03-12 11:12 · Score: 5, Funny

. . . a United States submarine has reported the loss of one MK 48 torpedo.
1. Re:In other news . . . by gtall · 2016-03-12 11:33 · Score: 1
  
  I doubt the U.S. would waste a torpedo on that tub.
2. Re:In other news . . . by user+no.+590291 · 2016-03-12 11:35 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  True--the torpedo probably cost more.
3. Re:In other news . . . by blindseer · 2016-03-12 12:14 · Score: 1
  
  I can hear it now...
  "Sailor! Did you just say the words 'weapon' and 'lost' in the same sentence?"
  Oh, wait, you mean "lost' as in not really lost. Right, because the US Navy has a habit of "losing" weapons while training in waters near hostile nations. Because "losing" a weapon would not cause an international incident, no?
  I have little doubt that this sub sank due to no action from an outside nation. It could have been a mechanical failure or a training failure. Either way the families will likely be told nothing of what truly happened, they will be told that their sons and brothers were lost at sea in battle with the evil Americans, be compensated for their loss (or to buy their silence) and it will not be spoken of again.
  
  --
  I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
4. Re:In other news . . . by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-12 18:31 · Score: 0
  
  and further news.. dprk announces purchase of new submarine.
  hey, it's all they could afford.
5. Re:In other news . . . by meerling · 2016-03-12 18:58 · Score: 1
  
  Sad thing is, that's probably true.
6. Re:In other news . . . by meerling · 2016-03-12 19:00 · Score: 1
  
  No sir! It was demilled as per instructions via detonation in an old wreck that is not an aquatic habitat sir!
  (I have no idea how Navy would actually report that, so I'm using the hollywood junk which is probably wrong.)
Its Tommy Lee Jones by rossdee · 2016-03-12 11:16 · Score: 1

Before he tried to hijack a US battleship and steal the nukes, he captured a North Korean sub
We'd better call Steven Seagal
1. Re:Its Tommy Lee Jones by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-12 11:20 · Score: 0
  
  No, Sean Connery is captain of that missing sub.
2. Re:Its Tommy Lee Jones by blindseer · 2016-03-12 11:29 · Score: 0
  
  "Ambassador, are you telling me you lost *another* submarine?"
  
  --
  I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
3. Re:Its Tommy Lee Jones by PPH · 2016-03-12 14:01 · Score: 1
  
  We'd better call Steven Seagal
  You go ahead and call Seagal. I'm calling Erika Eleniak.
  
  --
  Have gnu, will travel.
4. Re:Its Tommy Lee Jones by Shoten · 2016-03-12 14:21 · Score: 1
  
  We'd better call Steven Seagal
  You go ahead and call Seagal. I'm calling Erika Eleniak.
  As I remember it, she was an essential part of it too. She shot O'Brien from Star Trek before he could shoot Seagal in the face.
  On second thought...don't call Erika Eleniak. Let's have Seagal do this one solo.
  
  --
  
  For your security, this post has been encrypted with ROT-13, twice.
5. Re:Its Tommy Lee Jones by meerling · 2016-03-12 19:08 · Score: 1
  
  "No sir, we know exactly where it is. It's just that we can't currently communicate with it, board it, or in any way move or recover it."
  "Do you think the Americans would let us borrow the Hughes Glomar Explorer for a few weeks?"
Misinformation? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-12 11:19 · Score: 0

Maybe NK wants us to think they lost it, our eyes are on them "looking for it", meanwhile it's somewhere else on a mission?
1. Re:Misinformation? by meerling · 2016-03-12 19:09 · Score: 1
  
  From everything I've heard people say, just about the only way to lose an NK sub from tracking was to have it implode.
Hmm... by plazman30 · 2016-03-12 11:19 · Score: 1

Why do I think this sub will suddenly surface off the coast of California or Alaska waving a white flag and everyone asking for political asylum.
1. Re:Hmm... by MichaelSmith · 2016-03-12 11:25 · Score: 1
  
  I doubt it has enough range to even reach South Korea.
  
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2. Re:Hmm... by gtall · 2016-03-12 11:35 · Score: 1
  
  Good question. Why would you think that? S. Korea or Japan is much closer. Or the Aleutians if they are desperate to see American women.
3. Re:Hmm... by Shoten · 2016-03-12 14:25 · Score: 1
  
  Good question. Why would you think that? S. Korea or Japan is much closer. Or the Aleutians if they are desperate to see American women.
  It IS much closer...that's the reason why they probably wouldn't do it there if they could help it. Remember, when North Korean dictators have wanted certain things from South Korea or Japan, they've tended to just go and take them. Including movie producers and other artists. I really doubt they would fail to go after the crew, if they were so close by.
  
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Standard advice. by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-12 11:47 · Score: 1

Did they think back to all they places they went all day? That usually works for me.
In typical fashion, they will find the sub in the last place they look.
1. Re:Standard advice. by CanadianMacFan · 2016-03-12 13:16 · Score: 1, Redundant
  
  Of course, why would you continue looking after you found it?
It might be great if the USN rescued the crew by Streetlight · 2016-03-12 12:29 · Score: 3, Insightful

If the sub is really in serious trouble and the US Navy rescued the crew (and maybe took possession of the sub) it might be a pretty good PR coup. Treat the sub's sailors well - good food, some entertainment in SK to see how life is there, etc. - before repatriating them to the DPRK. Treat the sailors as we would expect our sailors to be treated in similar circumstances. Besides, it's the right thing to do.

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In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell
1. Re:It might be great if the USN rescued the crew by Etherwalk · 2016-03-12 12:42 · Score: 1
  
  I expect they are under orders to scuttle the ship rather than let it be captured.
2. Re:It might be great if the USN rescued the crew by lsatenstein · 2016-03-13 12:58 · Score: 2
  
  If the sub is really in serious trouble and the US Navy rescued the crew (and maybe took possession of the sub) it might be a pretty good PR coup. Treat the sub's sailors well - good food, some entertainment in SK to see how life is there, etc. - before repatriating them to the DPRK. Treat the sailors as we would expect our sailors to be treated in similar circumstances. Besides, it's the right thing to do.
  What would happen, unfortunately, is that the minute these sailors arrived home, they would be incarcerated. They would be blamed for the loss of the sub, and wiped out. All the good that would be done before their return is like the last meal given a dying man.
  You need to understand the "Maintaining Power" mindset. 500 lives means nothing.
  
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  Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
Best Korea is just demonstrating... by rwyoder · 2016-03-12 12:40 · Score: 1

...its new cloaking technology.
"Gulf of Tonkin Incident"? by Ungrounded+Lightning · 2016-03-12 12:41 · Score: 2

I wonder if North Korea will puff this up into their own Gulf of Tonkin Incident
For those of you too young to have been of draft age during the Vietnam conflict, this pair of (possibly bogus) incidents were used as the excuse get Congress to pass the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, giving the president (LBJ) the authority he used to puff a minor conflict into a major war without a declaration of war.

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Commanded by ... by PPH · 2016-03-12 13:39 · Score: 1

... Captain Ramius?

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Have gnu, will travel.
Tom Clancy publisher to sue for plagiarization by veron.claudio · 2016-03-12 15:24 · Score: 1

US Navy finds out commie nuclear sub goes missing. communist nation suddendly remembers their missing sub. US offers help in the search. communist nation refuses. is the sub named Red October?
Underwater subs - like drowned fishes? by unixisc · 2016-03-12 15:42 · Score: 1

The U.S. is unsure if the missing vessel is adrift under the sea or whether it has sunk, the officials said, but believes it suffered some type of failure during an exercise.
Since submarines normally operate underwater, how will they know if it's 'sunk'?
1. Re:Underwater subs - like drowned fishes? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-12 16:28 · Score: 0
  
  Likely they'd hear the pressure hull collapsing.
2. Re:Underwater subs - like drowned fishes? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-13 00:04 · Score: 0
  
  If it has no capability to resurface, one could p. much call it that way.
Poseidon's Revenge by SIGBUS · 2016-03-12 15:43 · Score: 2

Considering how many missiles they've been firing at the sea, I can't be too surprised that the sea would decide to fight back.

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Oh, no! You have walked into the slavering fangs of a lurking grue!
One of our submarines is missing? by tkrotchko · 2016-03-12 16:18 · Score: 1

Is this some sort of lyric to a Thomas Dolby Song?
One of the great albums of the 80's.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

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You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
Tech News? by mutherhacker · 2016-03-12 19:02 · Score: 1

How is this Technology news?
1. Re:Tech News? by Aighearach · 2016-03-12 20:13 · Score: 1
  
  Submarines, they're these machines that float under water.
2. Re:Tech News? by Not-a-Neg · 2016-03-14 03:20 · Score: 1
  
  This isn't a technology news website, this is a news for nerds website, many nerds like military stuff and the science involved in their operation. If you want a technology website go to CNET or tH4 V1r6e.
  
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  -==- Buy a Mac and leave me alone!
Fellowship of the silent service by RubberDogBone · 2016-03-12 22:48 · Score: 1

The men and women who serve on submarines all know their real enemy isn't the other side's sailors but rather the sea itself.
It stalks their every move, looks for a weakness, and strikes without mercy.
I am confident US, Russian, Chinese, Indian, British or French navies would send assistance if asked. This is not about conflict between these countries. Under the sea, they face the same enemy.

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Sig for hire.
Dickish USA by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-13 00:14 · Score: 0

So we know where the sub is and that the people on it are probably in trouble, but lets not tell anyone and sit back and watch them all suffocate. Then go steal the sub when no one can complain.
1. Re:Dickish USA by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-13 05:21 · Score: 0
  
  Die! Die! Kill them all! Make them suffer!
2. Re:Dickish USA by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-14 02:13 · Score: 0
  
  So we know where the sub is and that the people on it are probably in trouble, but lets not tell anyone and sit back and watch them all suffocate. Then go steal the sub when no one can complain.
  A "brain" that works like that is a "brain" that also refuses to understand and acknowledge that Hillary Clinton, during the Benghazi attack, knew "that the people there are in trouble, but lets not tell anyone and sit back and watch them all die.
  Thanks Hillary.
3. Re:Dickish USA by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-14 02:19 · Score: 0
  
  Die! Die! Kill them all! Make them suffer!
  Yep, that's what Hillary Clinton said, during the Benghazi attack.
Not a "Hunt for Red October" scenario, then? by eric_harris_76 · 2016-03-13 06:32 · Score: 1

And this is the dangerously-competent scary country that has some people wetting their pants over a possible attack on the US.
Dupers, dupes, and dolts. Sometimes it's hard to tell them apart.

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There's no time like the present. Well, the past used to be.
Uh oh! by martinfb · 2016-03-13 07:32 · Score: 1

"Chewy! Punch it!" (Engine wines down.) The Millennium Falcon is in trouble!

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Self-importance and self-indulgence is the root of ALL evil.
Clinton 2016 by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-14 01:39 · Score: 0

Clinton is a square shooter. Clinton 2016!
The Hunt for Red October II? by DarthVain · 2016-03-14 03:18 · Score: 1

Perhaps they are trying to defect with their top secret "unicorn" drive? I've heard it was designed by their glorious leader himself!
Become one with the water! by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-14 10:01 · Score: 0

Be the waves. You are the ocean. Relax and spread your arms. Inhale deeply and (!) ...cough...choke...gasp!