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Why Do We Work So Hard? (1843magazine.com)

An anonymous reader points us to a fascinating piece at The Economist that tries to explain the elements that drive people to work so hard: Working effectively at a good job builds up our identity and esteem in the eyes of others. We cheer each other on, we share in (and quietly regret) the successes of our friends, we lose touch with people beyond our network. Spending our leisure time with other professional strivers buttresses the notion that hard work is part of the good life and that the sacrifices it entails are those that a decent person makes. This is what a class with a strong sense of identity does: it effortlessly recasts the group's distinguishing vices as virtues. This reminds me of an article by Om Malik, veteran reporter and founder of the GigaOm news outlet, who wrote this when announcing his retirement. From his piece: "I relate to Jeter's desire to find life outside of work. Living a 24-hour news life has come at a personal cost. I still wake in middle of the night to check the stream to see if something is breaking, worrying whether I missed some news. It is a unique type of addiction that only a few can understand, and it is time for me to opt out of this non-stop news life."

282 comments

  1. because by phantomfive · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Because money improves your quality of life more than extra time does. When most people have extra time, they spend it watching TV or other similar things. When they have extra money, they can buy a bigger TV.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    1. Re:because by ultranova · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Because money improves your quality of life more than extra time does.

      When you have very little money and lots of free time, yes. As your income increases and free time decreases, time becomes more valuable at some point. One of the goals of our economic system is removing the choice of working only to the tipping point, and only leaving the options of not working at all (and being destitute) or working nearly all of your waking hours.

      We work so hard because it's in the best interests of our rulers that we do, because they get to gather the fruits of our labour. That's all there is to it.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    2. Re:because by phantomfive · · Score: 2, Insightful

      We work so hard because it's in the best interests of our rulers that we do, because they get to gather the fruits of our labour. That's all there is to it.

      That's the worst reasoning I've seen on the internet all day long, and that's really saying something.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    3. Re:because by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Because those older than us and those with better access to credit, have driven asset prices to the highs of human history. No longer are housing prices a normal 2.5x annual salary -- they are 5-7x and in some areas even higher. Access to government credit for educational costs has led to the highest education prices in world history. And a wholly sinister cartel of pharmaceutical manufacturers, medical equipment manufacturers, insurance companies and their Washington DC puppets, has led America to the highest healthcare costs in the history of mankind.

      Prior generations would have called the current state of economic serfdom which Americans find themselves living under, "Tyranny". We just call it "things are getting really expensive".

      In other countries, when the native inhabitants of a city could no longer afford to live in their home towns, they burned the houses of the rich to the ground and sent them packing.

      Today, it is the ousted natives that go packing. But everywhere the same game is being played: Those with access to credit are quickly driving up asset values and creating a two tiered society. The "landed aristocracy" and the "you dummies should have bought real estate" camps. For millennials that distinction is compounded by whether or not mommy and daddy paid for education, or if the shackles of student debt are binding you to your workstation.

      Why do we work so hard?

      What kind of a privileged, ivory tower question is that anyway?

    4. Re:because by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Only because you're really ignorant, but hiding that from yourself. There is an imbalance in the earnings from labor and those from equity that isn't justified by anything except social and corporate structures. In truth work beyond the real level of achievement adequate to fuel leisure only fuels the class divide supporting the ultra-rich, and dupes the poorer into believing they need it for their own security. Puritan ethic is "work is good", but said another way "arbeit macht frei" - the implication is the same.

    5. Re:because by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So... work 80 hours a week for an 80" TV you never have time to watch, or 10 hours a week for a 10" TV you have to sit right in front of to see?

      I'm seeing definite potential for a beneficial compromise here :)

    6. Re:because by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You must be one of the rulers then.

    7. Re:because by Aighearach · · Score: 1, Insightful

      We work so hard because it's in the best interests of our rulers that we do, because they get to gather the fruits of our labour. That's all there is to it.

      Just quit and get a better job. Go back to school or something if you need it.

      And own your statements. Use first-person. None of that is universal.

    8. Re:because by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Work is good? Yeah, that's a socialist idea to the core. What do people think of those who don't or won't work, the so-called useless eaters?

      "You must all know half a dozen people at least who are no use in this world, who are more trouble than they are worth. Just put them there and say Sir, or Madam, now will you be kind enough to justify your existence? If you can't justify your existence, if you're not pulling your weight, and since you won't, if you're not producing as much as you consume or perhaps a little more, then, clearly, we can not use the organizations of our society for the purpose of keeping you alive, because your life does not benefit us and it can't be of very much use to yourself."
      -- George Bernard Shaw, famous socialist

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    9. Re:because by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      ... he's exactly correct, you know. You see it in the tax structure.

      As an European, we *don't* work so hard for an employer. Even suggesting it will get you ridicule, and rightly so. If the employer wants it so much, HE can do it himself. (Seriously)

    10. Re:because by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Recognizing the reality of a decision on work-life balance that has a solution space restricted to its extremes isn't a psychological defense. Claiming that acknowledging that is tantamount to admitting some sort of disorder is a bad tactic that simply ignores the practical constraints.

    11. Re:because by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean like Paris Hilton? She's a pretty useless eater.

    12. Re:because by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 3, Interesting

      And own your statements. Use first-person.

      "We" is a first-person pronoun. It's just plural. GP didn't say "all people..." or "all people except me..." (though I suspect the meaning intended was more like "most people, but not those smart people who realize how the system works, like me..." ).

      None of that is universal.

      No, but GP has a valid observation about how our economic system is set up. If our society allowed workers to drop weekly hours a bit as productivity increased significantly (aa it has for basically the past century), then we could all be working a lot less while making a living wage. There were experiments back in the 1930s by some big companies to reduce the standard workweek for wage employees, and it had a number of positive benefits for everyone. Some European countries have done the same, especially in encouraging long vacation time.

      But in the US, this trend stopped and is much less strong, while income disparities in classes has gone way up. Draw your own conclusions about the motivations.

    13. Re:because by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because money improves your quality of life more than extra time does. When most people have extra time, they <code>waste</code> it watching TV or other similar things. When they have extra money, they <code>improve their life by buying</code> a bigger TV.

      Do you not see the absolute stupidity in your comment? How about something more reasonable and noting that (1) the author in question is a professional who can trivially buy a bigger TV with their salary, (2) this isn't some class warfare piece decrying the poor having to work harder for a better life, (3) even if we consider the poor it's trivial to get a bigger TV even on a minimum wage salary because TVs are a fixed purchase (vs some better example like higher quality food), and (4) if we actually focused on the actual stuff that'd improve life like having better access to health care, less stress (by, you know, working less), and generally eating better (note, not organic food bullshit but actually planning meals for appropriate nutritional/caloric intake) we'd notice that time is probably the biggest thing missing to accomplishing those things without eating substantially into a busy 60+ hour week.

      Honestly, having read your arrogant posts for so long, all I really should say is die in a fire, phantomfive. No, wait, die in a *bigger* fire which you'll have to work extra hours, maybe go back to school, etc to obtain. Makes perfect sense.

    14. Re:because by clickclickdrone · · Score: 1

      As an European, we *don't* work so hard for an employer.

      Except the UK which like everything else likes to mimic the US's worst habits including long hours, frozen wages and extreme pressure to keep climbing the ladder or be let go as a shirker.

      --
      I want a list of atrocities done in your name - Recoil
    15. Re:because by sjames · · Score: 1

      You might as well recommend eating cake.

    16. Re:because by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Naah, I'll just work 4.5 hours a week for a 4.5" streaming device I have to keep right in front of my eyes to see. And you know what? I can always surf the net on one of those!

    17. Re:because by Howitzer86 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Yeah, things are way more complicated than that.

      I'm near or at the bottom. I can't tell anyone what to do. I manage nothing, even the use of my own skills or time without talking first with my supervisor (who to his credit is likely to accept any ideas I might have - up to and including small software projects if it'll improve the workflow.)

      This is normal, I'm not complaining.

      My supervisor manages me and a few others in our department. His job is really stressful, in part because a lot of the time the people asking him to make stuff happen don't fully appreciate the amount of work involved, nor the time necessary to complete the task. That gets delegated to us to some degree, though he has a lot of similar work to handle as well. He manages us, but is also one of us.

      He's not my ruler, but he is my boss.

      His boss is also my boss, but not all of his bosses are also my boss - the one I answer to often speaks directly to me, and the ones my supervisor has to deal with often involve tasks that don't involve me. This is kind of a relief, because my boss's boss is a cool guy and we get along fine. He's probably rich, but he doesn't flaunt it and he's not at the top or anywhere near it - not that I care about that sort of thing.

      HIS boss - my boss's, boss's, boss, I rarely speak to and does work I don't fully understand. I think he communicates with the people we do business with - the property owners we work for. These owners are what I consider the real bosses. Donald Trump "builds" his buildings the same way these guys do - with people like us. We never see them, not at my level anyway. We just make their desired thing happen - but I'm okay with that. These guys aren't the ones responsible for time management.

      If your gripe is that all your time is spent working, it's probably a middle manager's fault (or yours). Not some distant "ruler", and definitely not an actual one (unless you live in North Korea). Though admittedly I work in a relatively flat organizational structure and a small one at that. I can and do see where the real time constraints occur - when other people make promises of performance on your behalf. If they do it poorly, you're just as f-ked as if you were the one to make that promise.

    18. Re:because by Howitzer86 · · Score: 2

      To add to my previous post - one thing a manager can do to mitigate overworking employees is to hire more employees. A lot of people refuse to do this, especially during a recession, yet expect the same level of work, or have people over them expecting it. That's when your manager is supposed to stand up for you and the team and say, "We only have so many people. We need more if you want that much done in X amount of time. Please give me more time, or give me authorization to look for more people."

    19. Re:because by WarJolt · · Score: 1

      There ain't shit to do when you're broke. Paris Hilton is a result of what happens when you remove the incentive to work. People work hard so they can play hard, but the balance is essential.

    20. Re:because by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As an European, we *don't* work so hard for an employer. Even suggesting it will get you ridicule, and rightly so. If the employer wants it so much, HE can do it himself. (Seriously)

      I have 2 Ph.D. degrees (one in Engineering, one in Physics). I work about 30-35 hours per week, and take 7 weeks of paid vacation per year. For this, I get paid well over 10^5 euro per annum by a US company - plus bonuses. And I live in Europe, in a country where getting a Ph.D. is free...

    21. Re:because by Kjella · · Score: 1

      Because money improves your quality of life more than extra time does. When most people have extra time, they spend it watching TV or other similar things. When they have extra money, they can buy a bigger TV.

      Well if time is fixed and all other things is equal then obviously those who earn more will buy more expensive things to get the highest utility from money, with a few exceptions that are indifferent or care more about putting kids through college than themselves. But it's not really fixed and I still haven't met anyone who don't value evenings and weekends and holidays, in fact most people say they do. But from there to stepping outside the norm of "full time employment" is very rare and you can see there are huge cultural differences. Here in Norway we get five weeks paid vacation, from what I gather in US it's typically two. And yet if I moved to the US, I can't really imagine asking for three weeks extra unpaid vacation. And I'd imagine 95%+ of Americans here taking all five.

      There's actually a whole lot more "understanding" for people who switch to something entirely different and lower paying because it's their passion than working part time. That's something predominantely women do in a phase of their life to get work and family to add up, except teens and approaching retirement age among men there's only 7-8% working part time and only 2% that do it long term while the equivalent numbers for women is 30-35% and 8%. I guess a part of it is that this is kinda the "hiring unit", like I could talk to my current employer and probably get an 80% or 60% position if I wanted but if you apply for a job almost all is 100% or really low. And I don't think saying I'd like the job but only 80% of it would work well during the interview.

      I have actually considered it though, because of progressive taxes the last bit of my income is hit pretty hard. Not as a day off per week, but say a 90% position and get an extra ~20 days = 4 weeks vacation. It's tempting and yet, no I haven't done it. Probably won't either, it feels a bit like slacking. But I can't really rationally justify to myself why I shouldn't do it. Or at least try to make it happen, of course my employer would have to agree but I'm pretty sure they want to keep me on staff and work is a little on and off anyway, so as long as the vacation isn't in the stress periods it should be okay for them as well. Because no, it's not about the bling for me and I got a comfortable surplus each month. Yet I don't do anything to really adjust my work and pay down to my actual consumption.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    22. Re:because by Richard_at_work · · Score: 1

      You realise that its extremely hard to just let a worker go in the UK, right? We dont have the equivalent of Californias "right to work" rules here.

    23. Re:because by tomhath · · Score: 1

      One of the goals of our economic system is removing the choice of working only to the tipping point, and only leaving the options of not working at all (and being destitute) or working nearly all of your waking hours.

      It seems you're saying that a person who chooses to not work enough to support the lifestyle they want should be given a free ride. I find it hard to believe any economic system could function that way.

      Here in the US most people who want to work "full time" are working 40 hours per week. There are some who work more, mostly because their tipping point favors more money at that stage in their life. Only once in my career have I been asked to work longer hours than I wanted to without extra compensation; needless to say I quit that job.

    24. Re:because by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      Not everyone wants to work less though. If I can make $60k working 40 hours a week, I should be able to grab another $15-20 thousand easy picking up 10 to 20 more hours a week. I can live somewhat comfortable on $60 thousand a year but why should I limit myself when I have the free time and abilities to do it? Certainly not because you want to do it for yourself.

    25. Re:because by ThosLives · · Score: 1

      I read it as more like "quality of life isn't necessarily proportional to amount of hours worked, but rather it is exceedingly low below an amount which is essentially working all the time, and even then it may still not be great depending on the type of work performed."

      There are many many reasons for this, including things like: Health insurance tied to "full time" employment. Mortgages having such long terms with fixed payments. The tax structure. Slow changes in wages / salaries compared to changes in prices of "everyday" goods like food and fuel. General population growth. The list goes on and on.

      --
      "There are a dozen opinions on a matter until you know the truth. Then there is only one." - CS Lewis (paraprhase)
    26. Re:because by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      LOL, you do know that welfare state was implemented because of fear of revolution do you not? The capitalists did the same before the cold war. This is not an ideological thing, this is a bastard human thing.

    27. Re:because by gweihir · · Score: 1

      In a society in decline, that is certainly accurate.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    28. Re:because by MrL0G1C · · Score: 2

      Rubbish, you have very few rights for the first couple of years, if you want to make someone redundant then you're free to do so, if you want to fire someone who's not pulling there weight then you tell them twice to pull their socks up then you fire them but larger companies mostly don't give a stuff about people who don't pull their weight.

      Or are you wishing to fire someone who's worked for the firm 2+ years because you don't like them?

      --
      Waterfox - a Firefox fork with legacy extension support, security updates and better privacy by default.
    29. Re:because by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There has been research on this topic: it turns out that that earning more than about 75k (in a typical US city) does not actually increase happiness. What does? Doing interesting stuff: travel, music, volunteering (yes!).

      There's also all that contradictory information from European countries, where people earn less, but have a higher average level of happiness and lower levels of unhappiness .

      If huge piles of "stuff" makes you happier then you are the exception.

    30. Re:because by drinkypoo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      We work so hard because it's in the best interests of our rulers that we do, because they get to gather the fruits of our labour. That's all there is to it.

      That's the worst reasoning I've seen on the internet all day long, and that's really saying something.

      There's a good argument that he's "right", though not about his summary sentence. There's a bit more to it. Our rulers have managed to get control of almost all of the resources, and we work so hard because they have enforced artificial scarcity over the rest of us, and if we don't then we will become poor. Then we will be criminalized for being poor, and driven into poverty. It's illegal to live in poverty (child protective, mandatory insurance with secret formulae, etc) and it drives people onto the street, which is even more illegal. If you end up there, the system either murders you or drives you insane.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    31. Re:because by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Paris Hilton is a result of what happens when you remove the brain.

    32. Re:because by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you work for a living, why do you kill yourself working?

    33. Re:because by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Beyond a basic level of comfort where I'm able to feed myself, clothe myself, have shelter to myself, and not worry about spending a few hundred per month on dumb things, I don't feel this. Not at all. A day off improves my life orders of magnitude more than that day's pay would. I don't want a bigger TV; there's always a bigger one right behind it.

    34. Re:because by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because money improves your quality of life more than extra time does.

      Quoted for Stupidity.

      I would pay money to have more free time. So would half the programmers here. What use is overtime to me when I barely have time to take a shit, let alone spend this fucking extra cash.

      I have a nightmare that someday I'll have children and they'll end up as drug addicts or serial killers due to my inability to spend more than 10 waking minutes with them every day.

    35. Re:because by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Just quit and get a better job. Go back to school or something if you need it.

      And own your statements. Use first-person. None of that is universal.

      Oh man, they are gonna crucify you.

      No doubt that there are bad employers, no doubt at all. Some who expect much for little recompense. Som you need to get away from. So as you say, get away form the bad ones.

      I've worked pretty "hard" all my life. I am probably considered an idiot here in slashdot for that, but in my defense I was well paid for it, and got to retire at my working salary at 55. That's kinda not too bad at all.

      And I heard the same prattle thats going on in here all of my working life - boohooing about how awful the bosses were, and how da man is making you work so hard.

      Interestingly enough, the griping level was almost always directly correlated with how lazy the person was. The loudest and "most oppressed " had to be let go because it would appear that any productivity at all was asking them to do too much.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    36. Re:because by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Not everyone wants to work less though. If I can make $60k working 40 hours a week, I should be able to grab another $15-20 thousand easy picking up 10 to 20 more hours a week. I can live somewhat comfortable on $60 thousand a year but why should I limit myself when I have the free time and abilities to do it? Certainly not because you want to do it for yourself.

      And if you like what you are going, hell yeah! While not getting paid overtime per se, I was well compensated for my efforts compared to the folks who couldn't be bothered to put in any extra time.

      Then when those found out I pretty much banked and invested that difference? The weird thing was, they thought I was playing the game wrong, while it was actually them.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    37. Re:because by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      We dont have the equivalent of Californias "right to work" rules here.

      California is not a "right to work" state. Closed shops are legal in California, and union membership can be compelled.

    38. Re:because by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think I'd call her brainless. She's a high-school dropout that managed to turn average looks and a little bit of money (considering how much her inheritance was reduced) into a brand name, and every real interview I've seen with her shows that there are some serious gears turning in that faux blonde head of hers.

    39. Re:because by phantomfive · · Score: 2

      I would pay money to have more free time. So would half the programmers here.

      You can. Arrange a 32 hour work week. Take a sabbatical. Become a contractor and set your own schedule. These are all things that can be done.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    40. Re:because by MorePower · · Score: 3

      The issue here is there is no option less than 40 hours per week that will put a roof over your head. And working "only" 40 hours is increasingly a pipe dream. 40 hours already feels way too long to me, it dominates the majority of my waking hours. Spending all that time with sore feet, aching back, pain in my eyes, unable to get comfortable, unable to hug my wife or son, surrounded by strange people I don't really like. That's no way to spend the majority of one's existence.

      But anything less is strictly fast food or retail work at minimum wage, which won't even pay for rent.

    41. Re:because by clickclickdrone · · Score: 1

      Although once you have enough money to be comfortable, that extra time is far more valuable.

      --
      I want a list of atrocities done in your name - Recoil
    42. Re:because by sumdumass · · Score: 0

      I've worked with people like that in the past. They would do the bare minimum and say things like "I'm not giving them anything extra". Then they bitched because they were passed over for promotions or their raises weren't as high as other people's and so on. They just didn't get it literally and figuratively.

      Of course not all work is like that where people get individual raises (or a portion of their annual raises) based on their performance and a disagreeable manager could hamper that a bit. But when I have found myself in those situations, I just get another job. Finding jobs is somewhat easy for me. I have a good work record and many of my past employers- even ones I was fired from, will gladly give me a good recommendation. Those who won't are somewhat known to be assholes by almost everyone else who would hire you. I'm not the first person to leave those places.

    43. Re:because by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      one thing a manager can do to mitigate overworking employees is to hire more employees.

      There's many more things than that. Middle management is full of people with desires to climb up the food chain. They accept tasks or goals that are unachievable and when they do and don't have the resources to complete them they delegate those tasks anyway.

      I'm not overworked anymore and I know exactly why: quite frequently my boss comes to me and asks me instead of doing something to write a quick justification of why it's not a priority so he can pass it to the appropriate people. I remember going to my maintenance manager one day and asking him which of my top priority tasks was the top priority. He laughed, but the laugh quickly turned awkward when I didn't laugh back. A few days later the entire maintenance team had 4 projects less to do.

    44. Re:because by smugfunt · · Score: 3, Funny

      -- George Bernard Shaw, famous socialist

      ... and satirist.

    45. Re:because by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      I have seen a few people who spend their lives chasing the next thing for their pile of stuff. When that doesn't make them happy, they come to the conclusion that they just don't have the right things, or enough things in their pile of stuff and seek out more. My father in law died with millions of dollars of value in his pile of stuff and admitted to us that he never found happiness in it. Sadly, he had stepped on way too many people in his career to count on the way to this conclusion. People with families who were probably happy with what they had.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    46. Re:because by NormalVisual · · Score: 3, Informative

      You realise that its extremely hard to just let a worker go in the UK, right? We dont have the equivalent of Californias "right to work" rules here.

      You're confusing "right-to-work" with "at-will employment". Right-to-work means that union membership can't be a condition of employment. At-will employment means either you or your employer can terminate the relationship unless there's a contract specifiying otherwise.

      --
      Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
    47. Re:because by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nice explanation, from someone who is obviosuly pretty oblivious to the normal operations of business. That's not your fault really, because nobody around you have any incentive to explain it to you, so only decades of experience can really teach you.

      Basically, these people will tell you anything you need to hear, and even admit faults and shortcomings sometimes, but it'll always boil down to this: We r d greatest and we r flat org. We don't f care how u do it, only the end result. It's your job (on the line), and if not, forget any career or raise for a good while.

      So when you get your ears full of "how flat our org is", while you hardly see or hear anybody beyond your little circle of peers (especially if you're a dev), and how "free" you are to choose how you solve your work yourself (but we'll never tell you exactly what needs to be accomplished beforehand, but will just leave you wondering and running around in circles). Your last sentence is very telling, that what I've told is true: When "they" fuck up, YOU get burned and whipped.

      You just don't see it, because, as I've said above, you're almost totally oblivious to your conditioning.

      Your boss is not your ruler? Ok, next time. Try to observe how to speak and act around your direct report, especially at times of stress. It's very telling.

      If you have a boss that is one of you, really, then consider yourself very very lucky. Most managers have never been in the job they manage, and are totally clueless as well.

    48. Re:because by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yep... socialist drivel. Work your way up and fail and do it again. Yes, there are people who are born with a silver spoon in their mouth, but there are millions of examples of people who made it by not stopping. Those people who seem good at everything they touch??? You know what? The only gift they have is they keep going.

    49. Re:because by liquid_schwartz · · Score: 1

      And I live in Europe...

      That is the entire reason for your nice situation. In the US we somehow look down on you EU types getting 6+ weeks vacation. My colleagues in the EU all work for the same company yet somehow it's OK for them to get double the vacation. I don't want to spoil your situation, I just wish that the US would quit mocking it as if it's a bad thing and instead give us all 6+ weeks.

    50. Re:because by rtb61 · · Score: 2

      More realistically and honestly, that work they claim to work so hard at ain't that hard at all. The honest truth in our current corrupt society the hardest work is the least well paid and the easiest work is the most well paid and that easy work, you can not work hard at, impossible because it is by no stretch of the imagination hard work. Yeah some people work so hard because PR=B$ and the work ain't hard at all. I have dug footing trenches by hand and I have drawn them using CADD and you know what that CADD stuff is super easy and even fun, actually digging those trenches not so much fun at all. Could I ever, ever work as hard doing CADD as doing the work I designed, nup, no way, no how, not now, not ever, to claim such is a fucking lie not 1 to 1 not even 1 to 4 (1 hour of digging to 4 hours of CADD the CADD is still way less work). Why do some people work so hard because main stream media continually bullshits about what is hard work and what is not hard work mainly to make the rich and greedy look better. So according to main stream media a 4 hour liquid lunch in a fancy restaurant negotiating a deal is the same as washing dishes out that back, yep, uh huh (fucking liars).

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    51. Re:because by KGIII · · Score: 1

      I've noticed the replies you got and I feel compelled to say something - I'm not sure what. Strange... Very strange.

      The term "flat organization" is fairly new (in popularity) but the concept isn't that old. If it's any good then you're not seeing the heads of your company because they're way too busy to get down there. I often put in 12 to 20 hour days, not because we didn't have enough people (we didn't, at first) but because there was always something to do, something to learn, and something to fix.

      If it matters, the time spent down 'in the trenches' was the happiest time and I did what I did because I enjoyed doing it. At some point, I no longer was 'in the trenches' because the reality is that the people I'd hired were really damned good at their job. At the time, there was no limit to the amount of work available so we were in the process of expanding from day one, for the most part. There was always something to do and as much as I'd have liked to be doing the same work, there were more productive things for me to do.

      You mentioned that the company is small. Maybe they're in a similar place and that's why you don't see your big bosses. *IF* that's the case then that's not always a bad thing nor does it mean you're unappreciated or being taken advantage of.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    52. Re:because by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When you have very little money and lots of free time, yes. As your income increases and free time decreases, time becomes more valuable at some point.

      Yea. that's exactly why we work so damn hard. To make our time valuable. Having valuable time means you can trade it for more wealth and more pleasure.

      Tell me spending time with your family riding the bus is every bit as enjoyable as spending time with your family on vacation in Geneva or Salzburg.

      I don't have an offspring/wife family, but I have a large extended family, and spending time with them is much more personally valuable to me because I have lots of money from working hard to spend on enriching those experiences. It simply wouldn't be as good spending that time under a bridge eating dumpster food.

    53. Re:because by KGIII · · Score: 1

      You have some very strange math if 40 hours per week is the majority of your waking time - or you are narcoleptic.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    54. Re:because by dgatwood · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You can. Arrange a 32 hour work week. Take a sabbatical. Become a contractor and set your own schedule. These are all things that can be done.

      In theory. In practice, most employers want full-time employees who are there five days a week. Most companies don't offer sabbaticals. If those were realistic options, there wouldn't be so many people complaining.

      As for contracting, that's nice in theory, and it might pay the bills if you can manage to keep a continuous stream of contracts, but that often requires a huge amount of time that you aren't getting paid for. And if you don't keep the stream full, you'll end up struggling to pay the bills. Also, when you do have contracts, there's a deadline associated with them, so you can't always plan vacations as far ahead as you would when working for a normal employer.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    55. Re:because by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Top tip:

      A manager - at any level - is like a valve, or possibly a membrane. It's their job to regulate the pressure coming from below them versus the pressure coming from above. They get pressure from their bosses, and they apply it to you - and they'll keep applying it to you until you start pressing back.

      To reduce the pressure on you, they need you to press back. They can't do it for you. (If they say they can, then either they've misunderstood their own job, or they're playing some political game that will probably turn out badly for you.)

      So when you're working hard, let your manager know it. Don't sit their quietly and efficiently processing everything and never giving a peep. Don't run about panicking and demanding overtime either, but do let them know that increasing your workload any further will have a cost. If you fail to do that, you're not doing your job, and you completely deserve the shitload of work that will come your way.

    56. Re:because by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      When you have very little money and lots of free time, yes. As your income increases and free time decreases, time becomes more valuable at some point.

      Obligatory Wconomics 101

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    57. Re:because by Evtim · · Score: 2

      8hrs per day [if you are lucky] work
      1 hr lunch + 2 small breaks [at work]
      3 hrs commute [this can be shorter, I admit, but not all are lucky]
      8hrs sleep
      1 hr preparing food
      free time for anything else - 3hrs in total [for you, wife, kids, friends, everyone and everything else]

      So, this is it - working and basic necessities leaves 3hrs per day during the working week. Those who are lucky with the commute might not be so lucky with the 40 hrs.

      I still get incredulous stares from [scientists no less!] when someone says "work is work, life is life, I have a life" to which I always reply "do you realize that you spend more time with me than with your children?"

      And it is such an easy calculation to make...even if you include the weekends THE PURE TIME you spend for everything in this life is less than the PURE TIME you spend on work. Disgusting....

      Here is some food for thought...https://libcom.org/files/Bertrand%20Russell%20-%20In%20Praise%20of%20Idleness.pdf

    58. Re:because by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So there are states in the US where an employer can force you to become a member of a union? That is creepy...

    59. Re:because by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a European who is about to obtain a PhD in physics I am very much interested in what kind of work you do :-)

    60. Re:because by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I get 80 hours off per year, awarded once a year on employment anniversary date.
      so between 8 and 10 days off a year, depending whether we're working 8 or 10 hour days the days I want to take off.

      also get "up to" 40 sick hour per year, awarded each paycheck on an hourly basis of 0.01923 sick hours per hour worked.

      course, I also have youngins. and while 5 days off sick a year may theoretically be enough for me (not really, since get killer migraines on semi-regular basis, but usually work through it), the reality is really need 5 days off per kid just for when they get sick and have to stay home. leaving me with no sick time the majority of the year, and having to burn vacation time for when I'm sick.

      'Merica.

    61. Re:because by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I get 52 days off per year.

      They're called Sunday.

    62. Re:because by dywolf · · Score: 1

      Come on. Lets not forget the other time we spend that also belong to our bosses, and we dont get paid for. ie, the time spent getting ready and in traffic, and the unpaid lunchtime (which is usually still spent working). An "8 hour workday" typically consumes between 10 to 12 hours of a day; ie, half of it. Minus 8 for sleep, that leaves 4-6 hours to yourself and family.

      For me it's nearly 3 hours a day.
      Sure, I "only" work 8 hours a day.

      But I wake up at 5am, leave the house at 6am, and am not really back on "my" time until I pick up my kids from daycare at 4pm on the way home. (I leave before they wake up; wife drops them off on her way to work. And they go bed at 630 and 8, so I only see them for a couple hours a day.)

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    63. Re:because by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      So there are states in the US where an employer can force you to become a member of a union? That is creepy...

      It's every state. Even in California, there are certain classes of employment exempted from the freedom from unions, like education.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    64. Re:because by KGIII · · Score: 1

      Food prep is not work. Lunch is not work. You can count the commute if you want. Breaks at work count. The average commute is something like 30 minutes, call it an hour to be on the safe side. So, we're at 10:30/day and a week is 7 days. Strange math, indeed. You've got 32 hours on the weekend.

      That's not to read that they're not working too long. It's that it's not the majority of their waking time. At least not for the majority of people and they didn't mention an exceptionally long commute or the likes.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    65. Re:because by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is a limit to the amount of time an employee is allowed to be sick in the United States?

    66. Re:because by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Because money improves your quality of life more than extra time does. When most people have extra time, they spend it watching TV or other similar things. When they have extra money, they can buy a bigger TV.

      If you think having a big TV without the time to watch it improves the quality of your life, you are an idiot, and as such very useful to the religion of consumerism.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    67. Re:because by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Bernard Shaw was also quite keen on eugenics and Mussolini. He was not then, and is not now, entirely typical of socialist thinking.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    68. Re:because by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      You realise that its extremely hard to just let a worker go in the UK, right?

      No, it really is not that hard. You can't just sack a long serving employee one day because you decide they're ugly and pay them nothing in compensation, but the procedure isn't particularly onerous or expensive to get rid of them legally.
      And if you're a casual or short term worker you have basically no protection at all.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    69. Re:because by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      if you're working 40-50 hours a week like most people, then you have plenty of time to watch it.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    70. Re:because by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      There is a limit to the amount of time an employee is allowed to be sick in the United States?

      I assumed they meant paid sick leave, but being from Europe I may be wrong.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    71. Re:because by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Yes, it takes a little work to do something that everyone else isn't doing. Easier for you to go with the flow, right? Keep complaining and don't try to get what you want......that's why you don't get what you want.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    72. Re:because by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      because the sick hours are earned based on the hours I work, if I take time off (paid or unpaid) then I dont earn that fraction of a sick hour, or I earn just a fraction of it. and for extra fun, since they prorate it based on actual working hours performed, you'd think working overtime would get you extra sick time earned.
      but no.

      so you can get "up to" 40 hours paid sick time in a year...if you work the entire year, all 2080 working hours, without taking time off.
      reality is, most folks with only a fraction of that sick time earned in a year.

      'Merica

    73. Re:because by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      that's 52 more than I get.

    74. Re:because by phantomfive · · Score: 1
      What artificial scarcity are you talking about?

      There's a good argument that he's "right", though not about his summary sentence.

      Maybe, but you didn't do a good job making that argument, either.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    75. Re:because by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Here in Norway we get five weeks paid vacation, from what I gather in US it's typically two. And yet if I moved to the US, I can't really imagine asking for three weeks extra unpaid vacation. And I'd imagine 95%+ of Americans here taking all five.

      That's not really the question though, most people want more time off. The question is, are you willing to take a 20% pay cut in exchange for working eight fewer hours a week?

      Most of the people I know who are working part time (in America) are actually looking to get more hours.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    76. Re:because by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      If that is the best they can think of for themselves, they might as well pretend their dirt is cake.

      If they have a job and are whiny, they can afford their own damn cake. Ohhhhh, did the poor baby say "yes" to a sucky job, and they had to bake it themselves on their pay? waaaaa. waaaaa.

      Note the vastly dissimilar character of "I spend all my time working and don't like my pay" and "the people are rioting because they have nothing to eat." Yeah, if they have jobs and are working long hours to pay back their credit card debt, that is not an "eat cake" scenario, that is a "choose your lifestyle" scenario. Own it, stop whining.

    77. Re:because by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      I'm a software guy but my first job after turning 18 was Wildland Firefighting, and I've worked in a plywood mill. I know hard work, and I know easy work.

      And I know people in poor countries often don't have good choices, and that is sad.

      But people in rich countries with jobs who whine about their awful job and blahblahblah? No sympathy at all. They can quit and even if they lose their home they're not going to starve or anything. If they spend some time on the streets (I have) they might decide what is really important to them, or they might just keep whining about their own choices.

      I can say this; at the plywood mill, those of us who liked the job worked hard because it was the job, and we were happy to be doing it. The boss was a jerk, and we told him so and got back to work. The people who liked the job were the same ones who were not willing to "jump" or act silly, only to work hard. And that was respected. Other jobs don't respect that, I've worked at those places too; it is the employees responsibility to quit and move on. If they live in a country where losing your job means you won't have access to food, I can understand that is different. But I live in the USA. There isn't a happy "safety net" for most people, but there is plenty of food, and very few people die of exposure.

      The funny part about the guy saying I might as well tell them to "eat cake" is that cake and donuts are easily available to the poor, because they keep pretty well and get donated. When I lived in a homeless shelter there were near riots at 9:30 and 3:30 when they put heaping trays of donuts out on the tables; just 3 or 5 donuts isn't enough for some of these guys. If they want veggies, they should really think about what career they're interested in, and what sort of qualities they are looking for in an employer. So many of these whiners can't come up with a job that they want to do other than, "one that pays good." Well, geeeeeeeeeeeeeee, I'm sure there is a giant shortage of people willing to cash paychecks, right?!

    78. Re:because by sjames · · Score: 1

      I'll bet you'll be able to think more clearly without that silver spoon in your mouth.

    79. Re:because by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      In most places, you can't get a 32-hour work week or a sabbatical, so it takes more than a little work.. The contracting I've done was not about setting my own hours, but rather getting higher pay in exchange for fewer benefits.

      When the complaint is that employment sucks, the answer is not to toss out two usually impossible ideas and one that also sucks, and claim the moral high ground.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    80. Re:because by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      I'm a software guy but my first job after turning 18 was Wildland Firefighting, and I've worked in a plywood mill. I know hard work, and I know easy work.

      And here' sthe weird thing about me. I heard those jobs, and thought Cool! I'd like to know about them. But that's talk over a beer, and difficult on slashdot.

      But people in rich countries with jobs who whine about their awful job and blahblahblah? No sympathy at all. They can quit and even if they lose their home they're not going to starve or anything.

      True enough. I wonder though, these whiners, probably think a lot of things about their jobs that are so bad that in reality is just them being whiney. No job is all puppy dogs and unicorns. I doubt many people are actually in such a bad situation that quitting is necessary.

      If they spend some time on the streets (I have) they might decide what is really important to them, or they might just keep whining about their own choices.

      Ouch. - I've been very fortunate in that respect. That must give a person a whole new outlook to draw upon.

      So many of these whiners can't come up with a job that they want to do other than, "one that pays good."

      And there is a lesson in that, and possibly a major difference between people. I want a job that is interesting, and requires thought, and to be around good and interesting people. The money part is taken care of with luck and hard work.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    81. Re:because by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Well, I've managed to get a 32 hour work week (for three different companies) and a sabbatical (note: when I said sabbatical, I meant unpaid sabbatical). I've never done contracting, but I know you can set your own hours (for less pay).

      So these aren't impossibilities, these are things you don't know how to do.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    82. Re:because by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Correct.
      Though in way the gp is correct too, as LWOP (leave without pay) is extremely frowned upon by the site manager here, and following 5 days LWOP due to sickness (old lady, got the flu) some one was terminated upon her return ~ 12 years ago (long before I got here).

      the incident was the driving force behind our shop unionizing, though sadly our union is a tad weak kneed, and doesn't push for much (such as more time off).
      but it does mean it takes longer to be fired for getting sick more times than we have time off. formal reprimands start around 10 days (no hard fast rule tho), though was funny when they tried to reprimand one guy, and he reminded them that (and threatened to sue because) he has cancer and only missed work when it was just too much, but otherwise he came in the day after and sometimes the same day right after his chemo treatments. (they just dont hire anyone with any medical issues any more too)

      And if you work fast food in this country before, you learn that they don't often get paid sick leave either, and can and do get fired for missing work due to illness. so a lot of them work...making your food...while sick.

      'Merica.

      ain't it great?

    83. Re:because by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      But hopefully you're using that extra work to work less in the _long run_?

      As much as people use cliches like "have fun at your job and you'll never work a day in your life", wouldn't you rather be at home doing EXACTLY what you want, even if that's still programming computers?

    84. Re:because by slashdotwannabe · · Score: 1

      That's the worst reasoning I've seen on the internet all day long, and that's really saying something.

      I wish I could say that's the worst argument I've seen on the Internet all day long, but sadly, it's pretty much like every other one I've seen: a statement of opinion devoid of support, reasoning, fact or citation. Congratulations.

      --
      This comment is my opinion and does not represent an official position of Donald Trump or others I do not work for
    85. Re:because by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      3 hrs commute [this can be shorter, I admit, but not all are lucky]

      "Can be shorter?" Holy shit, that is a fucking horrible commute, and very very few people are willing to put up with something like that. I would absolutely sell my house and completely pull up stakes and set up closer if I had to spend that much time in the car or on transit each day. Not all are lucky, true, but not many are THAT unlucky as well.

    86. Re:because by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      What artificial scarcity are you talking about?

      Private property, of course. It doesn't have to be that, but that's how it's used.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    87. Re:because by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      True, I should have done a comparison with other comments, and built a metric to determine "inanity."
      Yours is probably the actual worst.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    88. Re:because by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      What are you talking about? I don't think there are many people, rich or poor, who oppose private property.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    89. Re:because by slashdotwannabe · · Score: 1

      True, I should have done a comparison with other comments, and built a metric to determine "inanity." Yours is probably the actual worst.

      My, what an AMAZING argument! So much evidence, backed up by citation! So lucid reasoning! What powerful, irrefutable axioms! The Slashdot Culture Warriors must be beating down your basement door with offers of blowjobs and BSD distros.

      You might even get a girlfriend.

      --
      This comment is my opinion and does not represent an official position of Donald Trump or others I do not work for
    90. Re:because by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Is that some kind of satire? You are trying to write posts that could be construed as insulting themselves?

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    91. Re:because by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      What are you talking about? I don't think there are many people, rich or poor, who oppose private property.

      It depends on how the concept is applied. When the wealthy are permitted to acquire property and hold it without selling it for what the market will bear, then the poor suffer as they cannot afford a place to live, one of the basic necessities of life. They end up falling prey to rent-seekers keeping a market artificially inflated. This is precisely where the repeal of Glass-Stegall has led us. Now, private property also permits us to solve this problem, but that's not how capitalism generally works. And in fact, although many states do have laws permitting towns to seize empty homes and outright give them to the homeless, this is overwhelmingly not happening.

      Private property is a scheme for revenue generation, and not a means of securing rights; your supposed "right" to a particular piece of property does not exist, and government has a number of mechanisms for taking it away from you if they don't think you should have it. Just like automobile ownership, property ownership is an illusion.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    92. Re:because by beastofburdon · · Score: 1

      Considering the quality of your reasoning in your parent post, ultranova should take this as the highest of compliments.

    93. Re:because by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      I really like the fact-based and informed nature of how your write. The clarity of your exposition has caused me to rethink my position. I'll bet you only do heroin twice a day, not more.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    94. Re:because by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      It depends on how the concept is applied. When the wealthy are permitted to acquire property and hold it without selling it for what the market will bear, then the poor suffer as they cannot afford a place to live, one of the basic necessities of life.

      I don't think that's really the problem. I think the problem is every town/city I've ever lived in resents newcomers, and never wants things to change. Thus they refuse to allow new housing to be built.
      San Francisco is ridiculous, though. You could probably build 10,000 units of 250 sq feet each, and they would sell like hot cakes.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    95. Re:because by beastofburdon · · Score: 1

      The point was not to make you rethink your position. You have already made up your mind and it will be nearly impossible to make you change it. My purpose is to point out the absurdity of your position so that others may not end up wallowing in ignorance like you.

    96. Re:because by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      y purpose is to point out the absurdity of your position so that others may not end up wallowing in ignorance like you.

      You failed, unless you think rationality is determined solely by voting. In which case you must be a dumb Reddit user.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    97. Re: because by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Guessing on something that generates good profits for the employer.

  2. The Myth of Sysiphus by Lotana · · Score: 1

    From The Myth of Sysiphus by Albert Camus:

    I leave Sisyphus at the foot of the mountain! One always finds one's burden again. But Sisyphus teaches the higher fidelity that negates the gods and raises rocks. He too concludes that all is well. This universe henceforth without a master seems to him neither sterile nor futile. Each atom of that stone, each mineral flake of that night filled mountain, in itself forms a world. The struggle itself toward the heights is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy.

    Camus in 10 Minutes

    1. Re:The Myth of Sysiphus by phantomfive · · Score: 1
      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    2. Re:The Myth of Sysiphus by Lotana · · Score: 1
  3. Why you work so hard. by jondeanmack · · Score: 1

    It is probably because you believe democracy to be correct, or you put the wrong person in charge. The correct person in charge should be myself. I used to be God.

    1. Re:Why you work so hard. by jondeanmack · · Score: 0

      And the practice of science might help you dumb males and lazy females realise that one day.

  4. Fear of being replaced by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

    If you die, you'd better give two week's notice

    --
    “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
  5. How about it pays well? by khchung · · Score: 2

    If there is another job offer that pays better than your current job but doesn't require you to work as hard, all other factors being equal, would you take it?

    The article might have a point if most people would say "no" to this question. The real answer is probably too boring to make news -- most people work so hard because they want/need the money.

    The hyperbole about the "virtue" of working so hard are just kool-aid from management and HR so they won't appear the villain.

    --
    Oliver.
    1. Re:How about it pays well? by JamesTRexx · · Score: 2

      Did you mean "another job that pays less than your current job"?

      Because anyone will take more pay for what they are doing. It's more a question of would you be willing to take a pay cut and work less?

      I got so fed up and stressed with having to fix stupid IT problems that I quit the company and only do projects. So far, while taking it easy to recharge myself, I've made half of what I got in a month but only worked a fifth of the time. The rest of the time I spend writing and drawing, trying to start making some money selling ebooks and I'm slowly feeling that I will be happier with this lifestyle than I've ever been before.

      We work to live, not live to work as they say.

      --
      home
    2. Re:How about it pays well? by khchung · · Score: 1

      I meant pays MORE. Yes, *anyone* will take more pay for what they are doing, so the only reason for one to work hard is because one expected better pay from working harder.

      The crap about identity, esteem, virtue, etc the article talked about are pure BS kool-aid from management and HR.

      --
      Oliver.
    3. Re:How about it pays well? by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      If there is another job offer that pays better than your current job but doesn't require you to work as hard, all other factors being equal, would you take it?

      Maybe, maybe not. I get bored easily. And working hard is kind of undefinable as far as I can see. Is working hard manual labor vs sitting at a desk? Is easier work mean no work or much less work? There are some folks like myself who have a very low threshold of boredom, and some folks who would be content to do nothing all day.

      As well, doing a job you hate doing for half the time is more work than doing one you like even if you put in more than the 40 hours a week tht apparently makes people's heads explode if they go past that.

      The article might have a point if most people would say "no" to this question. The real answer is probably too boring to make news -- most people work so hard because they want/need the money.

      That's wage slavery. Believe it or not, there are people in the world for whom work is not something to be considered a success only as long as they do as little as of it as possible.

      The hyperbole about the "virtue" of working so hard are just kool-aid from management and HR so they won't appear the villain.

      Well fine - I get it, you are one of the people who measures working success by minimum effort. Good for you! But if you measure that as personal success, then why the hardon for those who do not kowtow to your ideas of success? I don't measure success by minumum effort, and I don't demand that people like you work harder. In fact, I'm good with that, because it just makes me look all the better. So cut your output in half, it's the least you can do.

      And don't ever let anyone accuse you of not doing the least you can do.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
  6. Status anxiety... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... we work so hard mostly because without a certain level of consumption or job status our status drops in the eyes of others. It's really insane to a large extent.

  7. Sigh! It's just obsessing, not an addiction. by evanh · · Score: 1

    One obsesses on an activity. One is addicted to drugs. Nothing else to be said.

    1. Re:Sigh! It's just obsessing, not an addiction. by gweihir · · Score: 1

      So no video-game addiction or sex-addiction? Makes sense.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  8. tl;dr Workaholics need therapy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    People devoted to doing their best who aren't stopped by their employer (possibly themselves, being self-employed) will work ridiculous hours in some notion of "fun" end up fucking over their families by not really being there for them, recreating the same cycle of work before family in the next generation (or the exact opposite for children who rebel against the obvious negative of such extremes without learning that the issue is the extreme), and the economic warppage of businesses dependent on such saps pushes out other, more sensible people from the high paying professional jobs.

    And note, I say this as someone who works hard at a job that I don't really enjoy. I might get some satisfaction out of a job well done, but in the end I make it clear I don't want to work more than 40 hours/week--it has happened, but it's not the norm. Yet plenty of people work overtime, long hours, etc there and do it for the money--a good indication they're actually underpaid or overly greedy. In any case, even if it were a job I enjoyed, I'd try hard to make that distinction and keep it down to a regular 40 hours/week. Because overtime doesn't give you the money to travel back and see your child's first step or be there at your kid's play*.

    PS - If you don't have any kids and not much in the way of family obligation, feel free to work yourself to death if that makes you happy. I won't call you a sap then, even if it does cause economic warppage. I know I could be called a sap because I work substantially harder than the average worker. In the end, that's no the basis problem and merely a side issue. The hours worked and possibly lost is the real point, especially in relationship to having a life when work isn't or shouldn't be your life.

    * For me, it's actually video games and web surfing. The point here is, choosing what your selfish desire is and placing it at a higher priority than work. Work to live, not live to work. Of course, that's one reason I'd never run my own business. :) Set my own hours, my ass. It'd be 24/7 because anything less and I'd presume my company failing was me not working enough.

    1. Re:tl;dr Workaholics need therapy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds like you're trying to justify being lazy. I didn't miss a single day of school from kindergarten to twelfth grade. Also, I took college seriously since I paid for it myself out of my own pocket, so I never missed a day. I graduated with my masters in 1989, and since then, other than a three day weekend, I haven't had a vacation. You sound lazy and like you have this irrational hatred of people that have a normal work ethic and aren't as lazy as you. The rest of us know you're a piece of shit that needs to die. Needs to die.

      Also, there's a reason that a very tiny percentage of real engineers have children. I personally don't know of a single real engineer that has one. You don't have one if you're a real engineer.

    2. Re:tl;dr Workaholics need therapy by gweihir · · Score: 1

      Ah, one of _those_. You should get help, you fail at being human.

      Incidentally, I know quite a few really good engineers with children. And most of them even know that working more is a really, really stupid thing to do for an engineer because that increases error-rate dramatically and reduces creativity and insight. But I guess a self-absorbed narcissist like you cannot even grasp that idea.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    3. Re:tl;dr Workaholics need therapy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      *WHOOSH* the grandparent post was an obvious troll, and you actually bit on it? LOL

    4. Re:tl;dr Workaholics need therapy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds like you're trying to justify being lazy. I didn't miss a single day of school from kindergarten to twelfth grade. Also, I took college seriously since I paid for it myself out of my own pocket, so I never missed a day. I graduated with my masters in 1989, and since then, other than a three day weekend, I haven't had a vacation.

      You know what? Neither did I. Full-time school, full-time work during summer months, graduated college without debt and with a job (thanks, 90s economy!), and full-time work with only a few days off for sickness and visiting parents for the next 20 years.

      Until I was 45.

      Then I looked at the pile of cash I'd amassed, and said "Fuck, I'm glad that's over with," and haven't worked a day since.

      Delaying gratification was fun. I got to work with cool tech and cool people, and built some cool shit. I also learned to find video games and reading /. and drinking beer on a Sunday night as every bit as entertaining as my cocaine-and-hookers management, or my kids-and-pets-and-European-vacations co-workers.

      Never having gotten on the hedonic treadmill I've found that retirement is more fun than work ever was. Difference is, I get 40 years of being able to do whatever the fuck I want. They'll be slaves to their bills for the rest of their lives. (If you're a founder, that's cool, it's your capital and you're doing it for the same reason I'm not working - namely that it's more fun than having a boss.) But if you're a W2 employee or a contractor, I hope you enjoy making your boss and/or clients rich. Because when you're no longer capable of doing so, they'll go away, and you'll need to find your own motivation, even if it's just drinking beer and fucking around on Slashdot.

  9. Corporate States of America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Because the corps we work for are paying less and less in real wages while demanding more and more of our time and effort.

    Enough of the easily-brainwashed people are defending this practice and voting people into office who enact legislation protecting big businesses at the expense of workers.

  10. Because we have to by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We work hard because society requires us to do so. The deck is stacked against ordinary people to fight for a small share of the resources while the greedy rich people hoard a lot of it for themselves. Income inequality requires us to work hard, to survive on the scraps left behind by the greedy rich people.

    1. Re:Because we have to by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Amish are doing well.

  11. until by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    until you're old and wise enough to realize "it's all just a game" and give up on the rat-race money game. then you learn to smile and nod your head in the direction of your youngers who are spritelier and dumber than you are. and you find yourself pushed into management, even if that isn't where you want to go, but you want less "on your feet" effort and a more relaxed lifestyle, such as it is on a sub-nominal minimum-middlewaged pissant position. and you find yourself living out pink floyd lyrics... too late to lose the weight you used to need to throw around; shorter of breath; one day closer to death. welcome to the endless perpetual mind-f*** that is the human condition.

  12. Simple: You are all cows by Tablizer · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The wealthy class spends billions on propaganda to convince YOU to work harder so that THEY can make profits. The productivity of USA workers is among the highest in the world and keeps going up in general, yet our wages have been flat.

    That means we work our asses off and THEY get the benefits; and they want to keep it that way, for obvious reasons.

    1. Re:Simple: You are all cows by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 2

      Funny, one of my hobbies is collecting old socialist propaganda posters. Amazing design, vivid colors, really cool stuff. Anyway, know what the most common theme of the messages is? The need for workers to work harder. Shocking, isn't it? The next most common theme is telling workers how great their lives are. Conspicuously absent are messages of hate, calling people cows and mindless drones. They celebrate work and respect the workers who do it. Sobering, isn't it?

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    2. Re:Simple: You are all cows by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Claiming a single political system as equivalent to an entire tenant of work-life balance is disingenuous. Contrast, in similar terms, the behaviors displayed in Wolf of Wall Street and the older Wall Street "greed is good" movies for the financial maven side. Money isn't a goal in itself, and the valuation of work is simply a sign of the valuation of humans as equal without inheritance and investment distortions.

    3. Re:Simple: You are all cows by Oligonicella · · Score: 1

      You're conflating high productivity with 'working your ass off'.

    4. Re:Simple: You are all cows by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Funny, as one born in a communist country, I can tell you don't know shit about socialism/communism and how they worked.
      The rulling class, elected by the free will of the people (yeah, right), was supposed to think for the unwashed workers and peasants. The unwashed had to work as hard as they could in order for the whole society to be able to beat back the class enemy (capitalism). Wehn that happened and socialism/communism would rule the world, we would all live in paradise where everybody would work according to their abilities (rulling class thinking, workers working) and everybody would get a share according to their needs (rulling class a bigger one as they have to be free of troubles in order to guide the society, working class enough to be able to work another day).
      It's the same message every rulling class is promoting to the unwashed: work your ass off so we (as in we, the rulling class, not in we, as a country) would have enough to live happily ever after.

    5. Re:Simple: You are all cows by Livius · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The fact that you mistake that treatment for respect proves how successful the propaganda has been.

    6. Re:Simple: You are all cows by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 0

      You grew up in a de facto dictatorship, not an actual socialist/marxist/communist state.

      --
      Eat the rich.
    7. Re:Simple: You are all cows by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you are on the right track but the reality is probably a little more subtle than that. But I do believe debt is what keeps people working so hard for so long.

      Our salaried incomes is heavily taxed. Considering how much tax we pay at the margin on the next dollar we earn, it really does not make much sense to work extra hard. A good chunk of that extra dollar will simply go to the government. So why do we do it? I imagine a lot of people do it simply because they have too much debt and must find a way to pay it back.

    8. Re:Simple: You are all cows by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

      There it is again. Where would socialism/marxism/communism BE without the No True Scotsman fallacy? "Well, anyone who would do that is no true socialist!" It would be in the dustbin of history, of course. It just goes to show you the power of a good fallacy, and like Fox Mulder, people just want to believe.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    9. Re:Simple: You are all cows by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 1, Troll

      The USSR was a dictatorship with The Party at the top, and the populace placated with lies of how they were moving towards a true communistic state, but you have to hand over all power to The Party, because we're the only ones who can manage this transition. All lies, of course.

      If you had bothered to actually read Das Kapital and other fundamental texts of marxism, socialism and communism, you would know that no such state would ever have a ruling class or dictator of any kind. You would also know that the end goal (utopic as it may be) is the complete withing away of the state.

      But you wouldn't know that, because you couldn't be bothered to actually do any research, could you?

      --
      Eat the rich.
    10. Re:Simple: You are all cows by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your free to choose who you want to work for. There is such a thing as self employed and small businesses.

    11. Re:Simple: You are all cows by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Funny, one of my hobbies is collecting old socialist propaganda posters. Amazing design, vivid colors, really cool stuff. Anyway, know what the most common theme of the messages is? The need for workers to work harder. Shocking, isn't it?

      Not when you realize that the private central banking cartels are of the same group that ran the Bolshevik (commie) revolution.

    12. Re:Simple: You are all cows by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      There it is again. Where would socialism/marxism/communism BE without the No True Scotsman fallacy? "Well, anyone who would do that is no true socialist!" It would be in the dustbin of history, of course. It just goes to show you the power of a good fallacy, and like Fox Mulder, people just want to believe.

      All 'isms but one rely very heavily on the No True Scotsman fallacy. We see it in here when Libertarians bloviate about how the invisible hand of the free market will end all social ills, then never accept that it is an unachievable situation.

      But to directly answer your question, Socialism?Marxism, which by the way are two different things once we get out of the Fox News bubble - are in the exact same place Capitalism and Libertarianism are - failed ideologies when ruled by ideals instead of pragmatism.

      Pragmatism relies on picking and choosing things that are more likely to work. Like something close to Capitalism, with enough restraints to keep it from destroying itself. And determining that some most things should be run for profit, but acknowledging that there are some things that should not.

      And yes, the fact that the Soviet version of Communism sure as hell wasn't actual communism or even socialism notwithstanding, it does serve as a pragmatic example of what happens when an 'ism fails and mutates into something else.

      Let's take my little test. After saying that Capitalism is a fine thing as long as it has checks and balances, do you consider me a socialist?

      If yes, you have just made your 'ism paramount with no room for anything else, which in itself sounds a little like a variation of the NTS fallacy.

      If no, check out pragmatism, the only ism that picks and chooses, it only has to work.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    13. Re:Simple: You are all cows by Tablizer · · Score: 0

      What's a "socialist propaganda poster"? Socialism is an economic system. You seem to be talking about a political system that happened to be using socialism.

      Also I did not mention socialism in my original post.

      Therefore, I'm not sure what your point is, other then perhaps those in power try to convince those not in power to act in certain ways regardless of economic and/or political system.

    14. Re:Simple: You are all cows by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      Personally, I think socialism *is* a system of capitalism with reasonable checks and balances.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    15. Re:Simple: You are all cows by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mooo! Moo, moo moo moo; moo moo moo moo. Mooo, moo moo; moo.

      Moo? Moo!

    16. Re:Simple: You are all cows by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      There it is again. Where would socialism/marxism/communism BE without the No True Scotsman fallacy?

      As opposed to capitalists who whine that the U.S. has never had a free market economy?

      and like Fox Mulder, people just want to believe

      Blah blah blah. Words have meaning. Socialism means the workers own the means of production - if they don't, it aint socialism. Not a hard concept to grasp.

    17. Re:Simple: You are all cows by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 1

      I wear my "troll" moderation with pride :-)

      --
      Eat the rich.
    18. Re:Simple: You are all cows by dywolf · · Score: 1

      Once again: fallacy does not mean 'wrong'.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    19. Re:Simple: You are all cows by NoImNotNineVolt · · Score: 1

      Funny, as a political refugee from Communist Poland, I can tell you don't know shit about how authoritarianism/despotism and how they worked.

      Your comment is about as insightful as a Somali expat rambling about the failure of free-market capitalism. Neither socialism nor communism advocates for a "ruling class" which gets a bigger share of society's output. You're describing corruption, which is an entirely orthogonal issue.

      --
      Chuuch. Preach. Tabernacle.
    20. Re:Simple: You are all cows by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 1

      I would say that's closer to a social democracy, but then of course that would be decried by some people as socialism, so maybe you're right :-)

      --
      Eat the rich.
  13. Because I love my job by AchilleTalon · · Score: 0

    Simply because I love my job. If I wouldn't being paid at work to do it, I would do it has a hobby anyway. So, better be paid, than not.

    --
    Achille Talon
    Hop!
    1. Re:Because I love my job by Howitzer86 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Amen. I wouldn't say I love my job, but it's a branch of the kind of work I like to do (3d modeling and programming). I work the hardest when I work a full 8 hour day, then go home and instead of watching TV, work on my own projects. It is in these days I feel the most fulfilled. The days where I just work 8 hours and then veg out watching cartoons are the days I feel the least fulfilled.

      Sometimes I'm needed to work on a crunch time schedule. I hate those, but I'm almost never alone in this and we're always happy at the end. It's like defeating a dragon. It didn't eat us alive, we're proud of ourselves, and now our boss's are really happy with us too.

      Hard work in life is normal. What isn't is when you're too far removed from the fruits of your labor and are unable to take pride in it (like fast food or low-end retail). When you have pride in your work, and you can take credit for your part in it, it feels good.

  14. Constant propaganda from childhood by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

    People give up their families, their personal lives, their ability to see and do wonderful things so they can work to earn more money so they can get more stuff which they need work more to pay for.

    Work is dumb. Only do it as long as you have too.

    then find something you love doing. maybe people will give you money- but if not, you love what you are doing.

    But... constant propaganda.

    --
    She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    1. Re:Constant propaganda from childhood by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

      Funny, you just described socialist countries to a T. There, the only value of a person is how hard he can work. Fail to work to the limit of your ability, and it is considered *stealing* from the state. "Work is dumb"...LOL. Try that and you'll end up in prison with all the right-wingers.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    2. Re:Constant propaganda from childhood by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      It might to authoritarian socialist countries (China, Cuba, Laos, Vietnam) under the definition of the state owning the means of production. It's more about them being authoritarian than being socialist.

      It does not apply to democratic countries with socialism policies. (Most of 1st world Europe, Almost all of the U.S., Japan, etc.)

      Welfare, child food programs, universal health care, etc. do not relate to being imprisoned.

      Our right wing in the u.s. is increasingly authoritarian so you could be right. They've done everything they can to dismantle social welfare programs and their policies have lead to the U.S. having the highest rate of imprisoned citizens in the entire world (defacto evidence of our authoritarian policies).

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
  15. Agree with this? Why or why not? by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 0

    "I, on the other hand, have been striving for twenty years with a minimum of intervention and without destroying our production, to arrive at a new Socialist order in Germany which not only eliminates unemployment but also permits the worker to receive an ever greater share of the fruits of his labor.

    The success of this policy of economic and social reconstruction of our people, which by systematically eliminating differences of rank and class, has a true peoples' community as the final aim of the world."
    -- Adolf Hitler

    --
    Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
  16. I just got fired by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    for poor attendance.

    i'm sure i won't regret working more hours. doesn't matter.

  17. Speak for yourself by johannesg · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I have taken a year off. Plans include travel, photography, self-development, and anything I find interesting on a day to day basis. I'm now a month and a half away from the office, and loving every moment of it.

    As to why I can afford it... Because I didn't buy the biggest house I could. Because I don't own a car, TV or smartphone. Because I didn't spend every cent I earn on gadgets I don't need.

    1. Re:Speak for yourself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Wow, you're lazy. I graduated with my masters in EE in 1983, and I've only had one vacation since then. The vast majority of my coworkers have never had a vacation. It sound like you really hate your coworkers since you're screwing them over so hard.

    2. Re:Speak for yourself by johannesg · · Score: 2

      I feel truly sad for you. There is so much more to life than work. Sitting in the same cubicle every day. The same people. The same shit. One big circle jerk, all of you telling each other you are such great people.

      Has your boss ever taken a holiday? When do you think he will retire, and do you think he will thank you for the sacrifice of your entire life, when he does?

      After you are dead, what will people say? Will people remember you for some gadget that you designed, and they used a decade ago, you think? Will you have any regrets when that moment comes - stuff you could have done, wished you had done?

      Because right now, you can still do those things. Or keep enjoying the fake camaraderie and shared misery of being a sucker in someone else's farm. It's your choice, really...

    3. Re:Speak for yourself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1977 for me, if you don't count a few days off around Christmas which aren't a real vacation anyway since I'm around family.

      It's amazing how lazy children are these days. They expect time off, and are so lazy they quit jobs if they don't get it. Personally, I didn't miss a single day of k-12 (have the certificate up in my cube), and I didn't miss a single day of college classes. Also, I have never taken a single sick day from work in the nearly forty years since I graduated college. That's over 51 years of perfect attendance. It's sad how lazy the children are these days.

    4. Re:Speak for yourself by turbiina · · Score: 2

      If your work is your hobby - then fine. Otherwise,you are just slave and idiot. Indoctrinated to work , work and work. In the same time owners of companies get a lot of quality good time playing golf, riding horses and yachting. Taking vacation is not "screwing you coworkers" , it is getting rest to let you function effectively in a long run. .

    5. Re:Speak for yourself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I worked 10 years in hospice. Absolutely none of the patients ever said they wished they would have worked more.

      Money is fungable, time is not.Spend your time wisely.

    6. Re:Speak for yourself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can't tell if you're serious or trolling.

      If you're serious you are a fucking imbecile.

      Do you let them fuck your wife too ?

      Bitch.

    7. Re:Speak for yourself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I hope that that's sarcasm... O_o

    8. Re:Speak for yourself by cardpuncher · · Score: 1
      Quite agree. I kind of retired in my mid 40s. I didn't have a huge pot of money, but I had paid off the mortgage on a fairly modest flat so my outgoings are fairly low. I don't have expensive tastes and I can always do a few days work here and there to top up the funds again if I have to. When I do, I hate it - visiting cube farms with their petty politics and greasy-pole mentalities is frankly soul-destroying.

      As relatives around me grew older and more infirm, and simply by virtue of having the free time, I ended up as a serial carer for one after another. It's not quite what I'd planned, but, actually, having the time to spend with people as they reached the end of their lives was far more rewarding than bashing out yet another device driver or ultimately futile business application.

      I was lucky to have the opportunity - I started working at a time when housing was relatively afforable in a country where home ownership was the norm. I certainly couldn't have done it if I had to pay rent every month at present rates. And that, I think is the reason so many people work hard - they simply don't have the choice: no big pay cheque at the end of the month, no house. There aren't the same opporunities for ordinary peope to acquire the capital that gives them both security and choice - we're essentially entering a new period of feudalism in which all significant assets are owned by a privileged class and everyone else is obliged to pay a lifelong tax for their use.

    9. Re:Speak for yourself by gweihir · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Very much this. The worst enemy of freedom (and free time) are happy, stupid slaves. It also takes a very limited mind to not have any real interests outside of what your bosses tell you to work on.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    10. Re:Speak for yourself by gweihir · · Score: 1

      Excellent decision

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    11. Re:Speak for yourself by gweihir · · Score: 1

      What people say and what they do are different things. That even applies to the ones like Hitler. How do you think he managed to get so much popular support? Right, by promising things to the people that the people wanted (delivery optional). Quite like, say, Trump.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    12. Re:Speak for yourself by gweihir · · Score: 1

      Ah, sorry, answer to the wrong posting. Please ignore.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    13. Re:Speak for yourself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nobody is screwing anyone over. Take personal responsibility for your choices. You've chosen to go without a vacation. Other people do not owe you or your company (or any company) their labor.

    14. Re:Speak for yourself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Preach it, brother! This! A thousand times this!! For those who say "I love my job" I have to ask: "But will your job ever love you?" I didn't wake up until I read "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" and "The 4-Hour Work Week." Now I realize just what a Faustian bargain a job truly is, and I resent the 9-5 grind. I've been doing dividend investing for the past 7+ years, and so I have a taste of passive income and I LIKE IT!

    15. Re:Speak for yourself by imperious_rex · · Score: 1

      Gosh, such a paragon of virtue! When you're on your deathbed, I'm sure you won't feel even a tiny sliver of regret, will you??

    16. Re:Speak for yourself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No wonder why you are so salty, you have forgotten to live!

    17. Re:Speak for yourself by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      I feel truly sad for you. There is so much more to life than work. Sitting in the same cubicle every day. The same people. The same shit.

      So who says you have to do that? I had a full busy career, with travel, lots of change, and seldom got bored. Even had multiple offices.

      Now the interesting thing is there were people with the same job description as mine, who had your attitude.

      The difference between them and myself? They didn't want to have to leave the office, they didn't want change, and despite not wanting to travel or do the things I did, they seemed to embrace what they claimed to dislike.

      Don't feel sorry for me. I retired at 55 and to my reckoning, they now have worked 10,000 extra hours as compared to me.

      But if you still want to feel sorry for me, by all means do.

      All of the moaning about how da man is taking advantage of people is silly. Because probably 80 percent of people line up to be taken advantage of. If you think doing your job is a bad thing, you'll get treated that way.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    18. Re:Speak for yourself by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Very much this. The worst enemy of freedom (and free time) are happy, stupid slaves. It also takes a very limited mind to not have any real interests outside of what your bosses tell you to work on.

      Another false dilemma. I have had a lot of hobbies before and since retirement. Yet I worked a lot of extra hours without an issue. That doesn't fith with your idea of if you like work, you'll have nothing else in your life.

      Your's is the sort of logic that declares those guys living under the bridges as the winners in life.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    19. Re:Speak for yourself by Tablizer · · Score: 3, Funny

      You must not be married.

    20. Re:Speak for yourself by gweihir · · Score: 1

      I think you are kidding yourself to explain away your sad, wasted life.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    21. Re:Speak for yourself by KGIII · · Score: 1

      And I think you're unable to see things from another perspective. We can all play the "I Think Game."

      But, what would I know? I retired at 50, 49 if you want to be technical, and think life is excellent. In fact, my problem is that I've *done* everything I've ever wanted to do. I've accomplished all my goals, I've been everywhere I wanted to go, and I've learned everything I needed to learn to accomplish those goals. These days, I mostly just keep learning and doing different things as a way to enjoy myself but I don't really need to.

      On my death-bed, I'll be content.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    22. Re:Speak for yourself by gweihir · · Score: 1

      The narcissism practically drips from this. As I said, sad and wasted.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    23. Re:Speak for yourself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Never taking sick days isn't a virtue, it's a sign of psychopathy. You knowingly endangered others when you worked while ill, all without justification.

    24. Re:Speak for yourself by johannesg · · Score: 1

      Correct ;-) No kids either.

    25. Re:Speak for yourself by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      I think you are kidding yourself to explain away your sad, wasted life.

      I think you are projecting, dear fellow.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    26. Re:Speak for yourself by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      And I think you're unable to see things from another perspective. We can all play the "I Think Game."

      I've read enough of gwehir's posts to understand he is an angry individual, and likely possessed of more than a smattering of jealousy as well.

      And when a person's argument is of the basic essence , that if a person is happy, he is deluded, magnificently exhibited in the comment gwehir made:

      "The worst enemy of freedom (and free time) are happy, stupid slaves."

      Perhaps he might look into who is actually deluded. I "managed" to have a full, and active life while working - and putting in extra time as needed. I was well paid for it, enough to retire really early. I would even guess in the extra 12 to 15 years some of my compadre's will put in, they will even surpass the total number of hours worked in their lifetime.

      In fact, my problem is that I've *done* everything I've ever wanted to do. I've accomplished all my goals, I've been everywhere I wanted to go, and I've learned everything I needed to learn to accomplish those goals. These days, I mostly just keep learning and doing different things as a way to enjoy myself but I don't really need to.

      My problem, if you want to call it that, is I am a total sponge as far as knowledge goes. Even as a small boy, I did amusing things such as read encyclopedias for fun. I fondly remember the Funk & Wagnall's we had my bedroom. My intense curiosity all by istelf can keep me busy. And despite the meme of the nerdy bookworm, I was not anti-social. All of that has served me well, and I have no intention of stopping.

      At this point, I am teaching classes in communications, computers, and electronics. Acting as a technical liaison to emergency communications groups as well. And enjoying the living hell out of it all. Learning and doing are all a part of me, and that in turn, makes me happy - I don't need to do anything now, but still do. Delusion? In gwehir's world, I would be happier sitting on the couch and watching Judge Judy, because woing work and enjoying it makes me a happy stupid slave. Meh.

      And when tools like gwehir project their own problems on me, it does get a little sad. But then I remember that we are all capable of change. But who should change? A person who has managed some measure of success, or someone who thinks that work is a vice?

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    27. Re:Speak for yourself by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      The narcissism practically drips from this. As I said, sad and wasted.

      As does the anger from yours. signed, your happy deluded slave.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    28. Re:Speak for yourself by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      If you do get married and/or have kids, throw your current rule-book out the door and stomp up and down on it.

    29. Re:Speak for yourself by KGIII · · Score: 1

      It is unfortunate. They managed to speculate in response to my post but I didn't feel like arguing with them. I've neither time nor inclination to devote to helping them along. I've only so much life left, I'd rather not waste it in efforts of futility. By even their own measure, I'm quite well off. That they don't like how I got here is unfortunate but that I am here - and they are not - is all the more telling. Telling more of them than it is of me.

      Also, I liked the encyclopedia, school text books, and (oddly) the yellow pages. We moved a lot when I was growing up and then I did a whole lot of traveling for business. It's still a bit of a habit to read the yellow pages when I travel. I think it stems from my youth? One of my mother's favorite punishments was that I had to read the dictionary - for a while, I had to copy it. The thing is, I didn't really mind it and have a rather large collection of dictionaries to this day.

      When I was much older, I let on that I actually enjoyed reading the dictionary but, as it turns out, she knew that already. A means to an end, I suppose. Wow, I was a precocious twat. Ah well.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    30. Re:Speak for yourself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Even had multiple offices.

      Initially read that as "orifices," gave an honest-to-God thumbs-up to the monitor, re-read and let out a very disappointed "aww..."

    31. Re:Speak for yourself by gweihir · · Score: 1

      And I think you're unable to see things from another perspective. We can all play the "I Think Game."

      I've read enough of gwehir's posts to understand he is an angry individual, and likely possessed of more than a smattering of jealousy as well.

      Hehehehehe, that gave me a good laugh. I am, in fact, one of the privileged ones. I just have something you people lack, namely empathy for those less fortunate. Makes me a human being, and you psychos.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    32. Re:Speak for yourself by gweihir · · Score: 1

      Let me check...nope, you are still kidding yourself, on that as well.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    33. Re:Speak for yourself by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      You sound truly screwed up.
      I'm really hoping this is just trolling.

  18. Not just work by Todd+Knarr · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It's not just work, I know the same thing applies to sports and just about everything people do. Especially as you become good at something it draws you in and you want to go further and get better. Success at something is in a real sense addictive. Eventually you get to the point Robert Heinlein described as: "There is no way to stop. Writers go on writing long after it becomes financially unnecessary... because it hurts less to write than it does not to write."

    1. Re:Not just work by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      It's not just work, I know the same thing applies to sports and just about everything people do. Especially as you become good at something it draws you in and you want to go further and get better. Success at something is in a real sense addictive. Eventually you get to the point Robert Heinlein described as: "There is no way to stop. Writers go on writing long after it becomes financially unnecessary... because it hurts less to write than it does not to write."

      Its a passion. And fortunately probably 95 percent of us don't have one. And that really isn't a bad thing. Altogether too many people are told "Just follow your passion, and you will be happy". That's bullshit.

      Most people are like what you see in here in Slashdot. THey don't like their jobs,they don't want to give a moment's extra time because they believe that is harming them somehow. And they have all manner of platitudes for people who do. ike "They have no family life" "They die as soon as they retire", and other nonsense.

      When in reality, they simply lack passion And they are being shortchanged by those hwo tell tehm to follow what they don't have.

      Because passion is like a white hot pillar of flame - you often have no real choice. I've always been pretty passionate about my work. Trying to stay away from it would be no good. As noted before, I often dream the soutions to problems. Just the way my mind works. What you have to do is make it work for you.

      But for the majority that have no passion, they shouldn't act like they have the inside lane into happiness. They don't. I'm probably happier than 95 percent of slashdotters. Although some days, that isn't saying much - for them.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    2. Re:Not just work by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      I don't want to idly speculate about my happiness relative to other Slashdotters, but it seems to me that lots of people simply don't have the sort of jobs they can be passionate about.

      I do suggest that people at least try to pursue their passion, and to always have a Plan B when doing so. Don't die thinking "if only I pursued my dream". "That didn't work" is much better.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  19. Remember the 70s by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... sacrifices it entails are those that a decent person makes ...

    The 70s was orientated around protecting the worker, working less, giving more profits to the worker. It created stagflation, where there were no profits for new factories or investments. The 80s was orientated around getting a middle-class job and women joining the workforce. It created massive inflation as households wallowed in 2 incomes. The 90s was a correcting period as jobs disappeared or were off-shored, with business profits going to a shrinking demographic. The 00s was flooded by the war on terror but individuals orientated around owning the latest overpriced iShiny while the cost of real assets; new houses and education, sky-rocketed.

    ... it effortlessly recasts the group's distinguishing vices as virtues

    In the 1600s, land-owners spent most of their time buying entertainment. It resulted in a keeping-up with the Jones's mentality that sent many land-owners to debtor's prison. The need to belong to a certain socio-economic group still exists while, as the preceding paragraph indicates, modern groups are defined just as much by what they own, as by what they do.

    A job allows economic independence, which is why women rushed into the workforce in the '80s but the real validation is one's time (and life) has a monetary value in the world. This is a problem for stay-at-home mums: Instead of being paid, they're sacrificing their income (and indirectly their pension) to produce another taxpayer. Plus unemployed people are belittled for not fitting into the current job offerings, which are few because low-skilled jobs and the 7-hour workday have disappeared,

  20. Do not work hard. by Sir+Holo · · Score: 4, Interesting

    A mentor of mine, consummate if ever there was one, had worked 45 years at The Aerospace Corporation. Over his career, he had saved numerous satellite programs well over a billion dollars in total. He worked long, hard hours, dedicating every ounce of energy to The Aerospace Corporation.

    He was the tops. He'd call me near the end of a fiscal year, and ask if I could spend-out $250k on supplies or equipment, for my own projects, within two or three weeks. "Spend!" one of his emails stated. That level of power, combined with the above-described level of dedication and supreme engineering insight and service.

    Then he had a stroke. Within less than two months, he had been forced into retirement (no 6-month Disability leave for you!). Seriously, two months! That is the thanks that he got for saving innumerable satellite programs $100M's, amounting to over $1B in his career. A little vascular oopsie suddenly ended it all, and he was unceremoniously kicked out the door. There was a tiny, awkward "retirement" party, where he was presented with a wooden box of artifacts from his greatest satellite program achievements –worthless to him in a nursing home.

    I noticed that while he was examining this 'treasure-box' to the sound of fake-happy applause from everyone at The Aerospace Corporation, no one, not even his attendant nurse, bothered to take a moment to wipe away the huge, gross erupted boil on his left temple. Its core was about 3/4-inch long, and was just lolling there on his face, while everyone took pictures and pretended that it was a celebration.

    That is what you get for dedication to a corporate entity such as The Aerospace Corporation. No bonuses. No overtime. And when your body has a little glitch, you are yesterday's garbage.

    All companies are like this.

    PS — I cannot tell you the name of the company I worked for, but perhaps you can figure it out from the hints.

    1. Re:Do not work hard. by BlackPignouf · · Score: 1

      I cannot tell you the name of the company I worked for, but perhaps you can figure it out from the hints.

      I think I know. Was it The Aerospace Corporation?

    2. Re:Do not work hard. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good story.

    3. Re:Do not work hard. by HalAtWork · · Score: 1

      That sucks. Good indication of why our country is going down the toilet, we feel like we have no choice but to have this attitude to protect our own sanity and wellbeing, lest it be sucked out of us.

    4. Re:Do not work hard. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Welcome to life buddy glad your figuring things out.

    5. Re:Do not work hard. by bluegutang · · Score: 1

      So, have you ever visited this mentor in his nursing home?
      If not, you're part of the problem.

    6. Re:Do not work hard. by PPH · · Score: 1

      I cannot tell you the name of the company I worked for, but perhaps you can figure it out from the hints.

      Umm. Boeing?

      Read Turbulence: Boeing and the State of American Workers and Managers. A good analysis of employee surveys and statistics collected at that company which pretty much illustrate the same points you made. Particularly stress related health problems. The sooner you get out of that company, the longer you'll live.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    7. Re:Do not work hard. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not the company, it's the industry (or perhaps work).

      A while ago, there was a BA actuarial table going around that showed one year of extra life for every year of retiring before 65. I bailed 25 years early, so hopefully will live until 80 :) I've had so many coworkers die within a year of retirement including a very good friend right before I dropped out.

    8. Re:Do not work hard. by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      And when your body has a little glitch, you are yesterday's garbage.

      The problem such as it is, is that you think a stroke is a "little glitch"

      Your apocryphal story might have a little more insight if his job caused him to have the stroke. Alas, people who never worked a day in their life, or people who won't let da man take advantage of them, also have these "little glitches".

      You are projecting your dislike of giving any extra upon this man. Was he happy while working? Probably a lot happier thanafter having a stroke, which cut his work hours down to 0, which in your logic, should have made him happy.

      In the end, if you have a stroke - will your working as few hours as possible beforehand make you happier than he is now?

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    9. Re:Do not work hard. by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      I cannot tell you the name of the company I worked for, but perhaps you can figure it out from the hints.

      I think I know. Was it The Apocryphal Aerospace Corporation?

      FTFY

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    10. Re:Do not work hard. by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      Dafuk does A (employer not giving a shit about an employee that saved them a literal fortune) have to do with B (mentored visiting nursing home)???

    11. Re:Do not work hard. by penguinoid · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Your apocryphal story might have a little more insight if his job caused him to have the stroke.

      You mean, like if stress were a major contributor to cardiovascular disease?

      --
      Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
    12. Re:Do not work hard. by Sir+Holo · · Score: 1

      So, have you ever visited this mentor in his nursing home?
      If not, you're part of the problem.

      Sorry, but I am contractually forbidden by an out-of-court settlement from responding to your comment.

    13. Re:Do not work hard. by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      I know that some of the "extra" things I do at work won't improve my paycheck one bit. And also I sometimes open my big mouth and point out bad practices that are protected by political BS. Sometimes I get quietly reprimanded for such, even.

      But I feel better at the end of the day for doing them. I feel I made the world slightly better and more efficient, even if it lowers my pay in the end.

      The feeling of making a positive difference sometimes trumps pay.

    14. Re:Do not work hard. by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Your apocryphal story might have a little more insight if his job caused him to have the stroke.

      You mean, like if stress were a major contributor to cardiovascular disease?

      You seem to assume that his job caused him stress. It's so very odd - I've worked with shakers and movers most of my professional life, and they were not stressed individuals. Most were pretty happy. In fact, more the opposite. The most stressed people were on the lower layers.

      Very early on in my career, I thought much like many slashdotters do. The suits are all stressed out type A pricks. After meeting enough of them, I realized that is not even remotely true. I only had one, and he was actually a good guy who vented really easily, I fear that that the stressed out suit idea is a meme that has been made up by the rank and file to allow the rank and file to feel better about themselves.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    15. Re:Do not work hard. by bluegutang · · Score: 1

      Because "giving a shit" implies that you do things which will likely make a person happy. Visiting them in their nursing home is among those things. Assuming the nursing home is paid for, I suspect this employee does not feel the need for more money. Nursing homes are impersonal and often humiliating and cruel, and I suspect it would mean a LOT more for this employee to be visited by people who still care about him, who are still willing to see him as their mentor, than it would to receive some dollars. "The company" consists of people, and the mentee in particular had a personal relationship with their mentor and received something from the mentor. And for them now to not visit the mentor in a nursing home? That's sort of like not visiting your parents in a nursing home, in terms of impact.

    16. Re:Do not work hard. by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      So, have you ever visited this mentor in his nursing home?
      If not, you're part of the problem.

      Sorry, but I am contractually forbidden by an out-of-court settlement from responding to your comment.

      But not contractually obligated to refrain from writing your original post?

    17. Re:Do not work hard. by Sir+Holo · · Score: 1

      I cannot tell you the name of the company I worked for, but perhaps you can figure it out from the hints.

      I think I know. Was it The Apocryphal Aerospace Corporation?

      FTFY

      www.aero.org

  21. Why do I work so hard? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Just over five years ago, my wife and I were overjoyed to bring a baby girl into this world.

    By the time she was two, she was diagnosed as autistic. Not the mild kind where the kid turns out to be really into one hobby; the more severe sort where she was markedly disabled.

    So we put her into therapy, into a program that uses scientifically identified treatments; which measures every goal, every progress, and charts and records every bit of minutiae to inform further therapy. We get some government funding, but my wife and I put an extra $40k/year into her therapy of our own money. And neither of us come from wealthy backgrounds, so this isn't pocket change for us by any stretch. We get by by doing without so many of the things our own peers take for granted, including basic things like home ownership. We don't get to go out much, and don't go on fancy holidays. We don't buy things that aren't essential. We have no retirement savings.

    And you know what? Our little girl has made progress. She can't speak. I clean piss and shit out of our rugs several times a day. But she is very affectionate, and loves nothing more than to hug and kiss us. She likes to lead the people she loves and trusts by the finger to her favourite toys and activities so we can play together. She loves to laugh. She has an amazing capacity for processing symbols, including letters and numbers, well above her typically developing age group. She can read and spell. She is quite surprising at her ability to use electronics, and carries an iPad with software on it to help her communicate with others. She is exceptionally happy all of the time (we count our blessings that she doesn't have any of the behavioural issues often connected to children with autism).

    Beyond the therapy, we set money aside in trust for her for when she is an adult. It's unknowable at this time whether she'll be able to function independently when she's older. My wife and I are very well aware that we won't live forever, and barring any sort of tragedy she'll easily outlive us. So on top of the therapy expense, we put away what we can into investments in her name for the long term -- we're talking 15 - 80 years (based on current life expectancy). We have to plan way ahead, as we can't stomach the idea of her being placed into an institution with nothing when we're gone to dust.

    (She has no siblings to help take care of her when we're gone. When your first child is disabled with a disability that most probably has a genetic component, you start having to have conversations and make decisions you would never ever have to worry about otherwise. Will the next child also be disabled? Will they be even more seriously disabled? How could we ever afford to care for two disabled children, when we just scrape by with the one we have? Can we afford to take that risk, knowing that both children may suffer because of it? The idea of having a baby shouldn't be fear inducing, and yet that's what the concept holds for my wife and I. There is currently no genetic testing the can be done for autism. We as parents can't be tested. A gestating fetus can't be tested. It's a crap-shoot, and we don't even know the odds).

    So why do I work hard? I do it for her. It's her one and only chance at ever having any sort of life. I'll probably never be able to retire -- I fully expect to die at my desk. This wasn't at all what I had planned for my life, but it's the life I have before me. What's more, she's worth it. My reward is when she knows it's time to go to bed, and she leads me by the finger to her bed for a story, a song, a cuddle, and a kiss goodnight.

    (Posted anonymously for obvious reasons)

    1. Re:Why do I work so hard? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're a good man.

      Your leaders need to burn.

      I feel sorry that you were consigned by fate and chance to live in a developing nation.

      I wish I could help you.

      Are you sure you can't get into Europe or Australia or New Zealand or somewhere better ?

    2. Re:Why do I work so hard? by HalAtWork · · Score: 2

      That's amazing. She is very lucky to have such caring parents. Good luck to you all.

    3. Re:Why do I work so hard? by bigdavex · · Score: 1

      +1, Inspirational

      --
      -Dave
    4. Re:Why do I work so hard? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're only guessing at the odds, and it is always an unknown, not even a pattern, until you try again. Unless you're getting strong advice the other way...

    5. Re:Why do I work so hard? by penguinoid · · Score: 1

      You spend twice my yearly income to support a human that probably won't contribute to society OR breed and pass your genes into the future.

      Whereas you'd spend it on a bigger house, a faster car, a bigger TV, expensive restaurants, a yacht? If taking really good care of his daughter makes him happy, than he's happy *and* a good person. A better person than you.

      --
      Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
    6. Re:Why do I work so hard? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thanks. I don't have anything meaningful to add. I wish your daughter and your family all the best.

    7. Re:Why do I work so hard? by OSS542 · · Score: 1

      I am left with with the strongest impression that you and the rest of your family are among the truly richest people in this world.

    8. Re:Why do I work so hard? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Right on. I know it is hard, been there too, you can rest easy forever knowing you have done the right things. Take a moment to catch your breath and enjoy what you have. The universe is amazing.

    9. Re:Why do I work so hard? by dywolf · · Score: 1

      *cry*
      (seriously, i got f'ing tears here)

      I fully support public programs and public monies for families in this situation.
      I'm not in this situation but I know people who are, and I see how hard it can be.
      so i say raise my taxes, i dont care. im fine with it if it means helping out families like yours.
      it's a very small burden to bear (particularly when spread out so that everyone is helping) for the tremendous good it does.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
  22. Extra time + boredom = early death by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I ain't kidding !

    Those workaholics who used to juggle 10 jobs at any given time, by the time they truly retire, often find themselves having nothing to do

    Boredom seeps in, and in a few short years, they die

    1. Re:Extra time + boredom = early death by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I find it odd that people can be so easily bored. I've been both over and under employed over the years, but I can't recall being bored at any point. There is just too much to learn and do in this world. Off the top of my head I can think of at least a dozen projects I have on the back-burner, from a programming language I've been working on for a few years (just for fun) to learning some basic string theory to riding around Australia.

      Boredom... how does that work?

    2. Re:Extra time + boredom = early death by KGIII · · Score: 1

      Life can be pretty boring but I'm never really bored. Not really... I might be bored with one activity but I have plenty of other things to do. Every minute of my waking life is spent doing something even though that something may appear boring to others.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
  23. Stinks. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This post smells like the post of a whiny millenial social justice warrior crying about "social constructs" and "capitalism" and "free enterprise" and "hard work". I'm guessing this person wants a base income -- ideally FOR THEMSELVES and not just as a concept. I smell a lazy person who hates to work and just wants to get by on someone else's ride.

  24. Protestant work ethic by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I think it's all down to the protestant work ethic that's been drilled into the minds of all westerners for generations. "Work hard in this life, and you shall receive your just rewards in the next life" and so on. This was dreamed up by royalty, nobility and particularly the church, in order to keep the masses complacent and too tired to effect a proper revolt.

    And then there's the just-word fallacy, that those who work hard also earn the rewards, which is demonstrably false and always has been.

    --
    Eat the rich.
    1. Re:Protestant work ethic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      There's the three fundamental truths of human existence: there is no god, life had no purpose, and free will is an illusion. The last truth is perhaps the most interesting but it is mostly the second that is relevant here.

      Since purpose is entirely arbitrary, some people "choose" to believe that the purpose of life is to do as much as possible for yourself (to be as selfish as possible). Other people "choose" to believe that the purpose of life is to do as much as possible for others (to be as generous as possible). Of course, some people "choose" to believe that the purpose of life is to change the world, and be remembered forever. While other people "choose" to believe that the purpose of life is to have as little impact on the world as possible - to be entirely forgotten soon after their death.

      And, of course, it's not really a choice: everything in the universe, including human behavior, is governed by some combination of the laws of physics and random chance. At the most fundamental level, we are no more able to change the gravitational constant than to be different than who the laws of physics and random chance dictate that we will be.

      So, why do people work so hard? Well, on one hand, why not - life has no fundamental purpose anyway? But, on the other hand, because that's what the laws of physics and random chance have decided that we'll do.

      Bwa ha ha ha!

    2. Re:Protestant work ethic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Work hard in this life, and you shall receive your just rewards in the next life.

      That is Catholic shit. Real protestants think like the following:

      Your life has been predestined even before your whole lineage of human embryos ever existed. You're doomed, and only by surrendering your soul to Jesus can you be saved, but you'll never know in this life. The only way to estimate your chance of being saved is to work hard and see if you succeed. If you do, there's a high chance you are blessed by God, hence can be saved. If you don't, you're a sinner beyond redemption.

    3. Re:Protestant work ethic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I "choose" to spend my life making "hot grits" and "Natalie Portman naked and petrified" references, to remind people of what /. used to be.

      Yes, I know I'm wasting my life. So what?

    4. Re:Protestant work ethic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Christian work ethic. Catholics have been drilled the same way.

    5. Re:Protestant work ethic by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 1

      Yes, a previous AC corrected me. I just defaulted to "protestant" because that's the most prevalent form of Christianity where I live. And I'm sure the same sort of work ethic exists in many other forms other places in the world, too.

      --
      Eat the rich.
    6. Re:Protestant work ethic by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 1

      You're absolutely right, of course. Thank you for the clarification, mr. AC :-)

      --
      Eat the rich.
    7. Re:Protestant work ethic by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      The thing about Protestant churches is that they're pretty much defined as those that are neither Orthodox or Catholic, so they vary all over the place. Calvinism isn't the only Protestant movement, which is fortunate (I tend to think of Calvinists as self-righteous "I got mine, Jack" sorts of people).

      Not to mention that that doesn't make sense. If you're already damned, you're much better off enjoying life on Earth. If saved, it's not going to make any difference. That didn't stop it from being a major religious movement, of course.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    8. Re:Protestant work ethic by Jack+Griffin · · Score: 1

      I think it's all down to the protestant work ethic that's been drilled into the minds of all westerners for generations. "Work hard in this life, and you shall receive your just rewards in the next life" and so on.

      Dude, I think this way of thinking has been around a lot longer than 16th century...

    9. Re:Protestant work ethic by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 1

      I know, but I went for the term most recognized where I live, in northern Europe.

      --
      Eat the rich.
  25. Wrong. by Qbertino · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Because money improves your quality of life more than extra time does.

    Wrong. Beyond 'minimum' needs like food, shelter, health, security, and perhaps some good sex thrown in, income basically is disposable. What humans need beyond that is to feel loved, competent and a sense of enthusiasm for what they strive for. Which all has nothing to do with 'physical' wealth. Money in those latter areas is nothing but a shallow substitute, and mostly a bad one at that. That's why most people are quite unhappy with their lives, even though they're doing well by any outward metric. Depression is the first world disease that comes with that.

    By any historic measure we live in times of infinite abundance. 80%+ of work done in first world societies are bullshit jobs and superfluos work. Most of which can be done by robots, better planing or, most of the time, simply left out all together.

    I work part time for more spare-time, and while I sometimes moan that because of my compareatively lower income I have the feeling I am - to most women of my social herachy - not suitable for long-term relationship because of that (especially with the values our society to wrongly pursues), I repeatedly run into situations that can only be described as plain an utter envy over my freedom compared to my peers. By men and women alike. I'm only suitably as a dance partner and a lover to most. ... A situation I will probably have to learn to live with. ... And, yes, I'm going to cry you a river now. :-)

    Conclusion:
    You Sir need to get yourself a copy of the 4 Hour Workweek. Or, better yet, the original: Senecas Letters from a Stoic., read it and get a life (Hint: It is *not* about dependant income-work.) Stoicism: The optimised wester variant of zen-buddhism as you might call it. Get with the programm and start enjoying you life like never before. Welcome to the club.

    --
    We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
    1. Re:Wrong. by tomhath · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Beyond 'minimum' needs like food, shelter, health, security, and perhaps some good sex thrown in, income basically is disposable.

      Except there's not a clearly defined boundary line that a person crosses at a certain income level. There's a long transition zone, where more money means better food, a nicer home, a safer neighborhood, and more sex. Your Utopian society in which everyone is happy to share the wealth equally doesn't exist.

    2. Re:Wrong. by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      Wrong. Beyond 'minimum' needs like food, shelter, health, security, and perhaps some good sex thrown in, income basically is disposable. What humans need beyond that is to feel loved, competent and a sense of enthusiasm for what they strive for.

      Sorry, no. Money continues to increase happiness until you break into the middle class. You know, the class that is rapidly vanishing in the USA, because the economy is completely fucking broken and people are completely in denial about it?

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    3. Re:Wrong. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You Sir need to get yourself a copy of the 4 Hour Workweek [fourhourworkweek.com]. Or, better yet, the original: Senecas Letters from a Stoic. [amazon.com], read it and get a life (Hint: It is *not* about dependant income-work.) Stoicism: The optimised wester variant of zen-buddhism as you might call it. Get with the programm and start enjoying you life like never before. Welcome to the club.

      A book that is utter BS to begin with. Not only does that guy put in way more than 4 hours a week promoting himself, which is work, but also if your work could be subbed out so easily then an employer once they become wise to it will just fire you to cut out the middle man and gain the savings for themselves.

    4. Re:Wrong. by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      WOW, are you an American? I didn't know there were any Americans that needed to feel loved.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    5. Re:Wrong. by Qbertino · · Score: 1

      Not only does that guy put in way more than 4 hours a week...

      Yes. That's what he likes to do. He couldn't do that if he'd still doing 80+hrs/week running a sports nutrition company.
      And like I said, if you don't like the book, get the original, Seneca.

      --
      We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
    6. Re:Wrong. by penguinoid · · Score: 1

      80%+ of work done in first world societies are bullshit jobs and superfluos work. Most of which can be done by robots, better planing or, most of the time, simply left out all together.

      Sadly, most of those jobs can't simply be eliminated, at least not spontaneously. I'd classify those jobs as either weapons or parasites. You need a lawyer because the other guy has a lawyer. If you don't advertise, you risk losing marketshare to one who does. All that paperwork is necessary because of millions and millions of laws. You can't just decide not to participate.

      --
      Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
    7. Re:Wrong. by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      You (and Seneca) are arguing about what people should want, I was merely presenting what people do want. Maybe you are wrong, but I am right.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  26. Quantity over Quality... by gweihir · · Score: 1

    People work a lot because the hours worked are easily quantifiable. Quality (and hence productivity) is far, far harder to estimate as it actually requires understanding. At the same time, science and common sense (a rare commodity these days) tells us that people working a lot have decreased overall productivity, hence working hard is about the most stupid thing you can do or require your underlings to do.

    This is not a new problem, and its root cause has been known for a very, very long time: "A good decision is based on understanding, not on numbers." (Said by Plato and doubtlessly others before him.) These days, the insight-challenged number pushers are (again) those that make the decisions. That cannot end well.

    --
    Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    1. Re:Quantity over Quality... by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      At the same time, science and common sense (a rare commodity these days) tells us that people working a lot have decreased overall productivity, hence working hard is about the most stupid thing you can do or require your underlings to do.

      You took working a lot, and made it the same thing as working hard.

      The two are not even the same thing. Allow me to explain.

      Our ex-neighbor's daughter is a tad lazy. They would give her a job, like raking the leaves in the yard, and she would moan and whine, act all put upon, and end up taking an entire day to do a two hour job. She definitely worked long - taking 8 or 9 hours to do the job. She certainly thought she was working hard.

      Now in my own case, I put in a lot of hours, and I enjoyed fixing problems to the point where it hardly seemed like work at all. Productivity was getting the job done, and getting it done well. People who in their minds thought that they worked hard enough were home watching X-factor, or somesuch, I was enjoying getting a problem fixed. Some were annoyed that I was making them "look bad", but usually had to abandon that idea the third or fourth time I saved their ass.

      So there you have a person who takes 8+ hours to do a 2 hour job, and considering the bitching and moaning, there's no doubt she was convinced she was working really really hard, and you have a person who is enjoying what they are doing, and taking many hours, but getting a job done that normal people would just give up on. How's that productivity measured? Hell, I dreamed answers to my work problems all the time. Obsessed? I guess it depends on how you look at it. Maybe I'm obsessed with fixing problems. Maybe others are obsessed with maximizing the amount of time spent watching Swamp loggers

      You are probably thinking of these studies:

      http://www.economist.com/blogs...

      The problem is of course, that things like making munitions translates to assembly line work, not so much to present day activities.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    2. Re:Quantity over Quality... by gweihir · · Score: 1

      And now you are redefining the dictionary. You obviously have a rather severe problem with reality-perception. Fits the other pathologies you exhibit.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    3. Re:Quantity over Quality... by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      And now you are redefining the dictionary. You obviously have a rather severe problem with reality-perception. Fits the other pathologies you exhibit.

      I also enjoy pissing tools off. That would be you.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
  27. Re:Agree with this? Why or why not? by gweihir · · Score: 1

    What people say and what they do are different things. That even applies to the ones like Hitler. How do you think he managed to get so much popular support? Right, by promising things to the people that the people wanted (delivery optional). Very much like, say, Trump.

    --
    Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  28. Nope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No, extra time with my son is much better than any TV/VR/Game, and I won't let extra work take that away from me.

  29. We do multiple jobs by christurkel · · Score: 5, Interesting

    We used to pay people to do things we do now: pump our gas, do our laundry, etc. Not only do we work our job, we do jobs other people used to.

    --

    CDE open sourced! https://sourceforge.net/projects/cdesktopenv/
    1. Re:We do multiple jobs by erice · · Score: 1

      We used to pay people to do things we do now: pump our gas, do our laundry, etc. Not only do we work our job, we do jobs other people used to.

      Who is "we"? Servants are only practical for everyday tasks if there are people far enough below you on the economic strata that you can afford to pay them. If, in that earlier time, *you* were the servant then you did not have any servants for yourself. India is like this today. People at the level of the typical Slashdot poster do have people do their nuisance tasks. That is because there are a great number of very poor people willing to accept the assignment for little pay.

    2. Re:We do multiple jobs by penguinoid · · Score: 1

      Next thing you know, we'll be expected to ring up and bag our own groceries.

      --
      Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
  30. Re:Agree with this? Why or why not? by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 2

    Actually, Hitler did exactly what he said he would. Within 5 years, the German worker and the German intellectual were equals. It wasn't like today where writers and artists shit all over waiters and plumbers.

    Reductio ad Hitlerum is sometimes called "playing the Nazi card". According to its critics and proponents, it is a tactic often used to derail arguments, because such comparisons tend to distract and anger the opponent, as Hitler and Nazism have been condemned in the modern Western world.

    There is a tradition in many newsgroups and other Internet discussion forums that once such a comparison is made, the thread is finished and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever debate was in progress. This principle is itself frequently referred to as Godwin's law.

    --
    Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
  31. Wrong title by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 3, Funny
    Should be "Why do we think we work so hard"

    My experience in life and the workplace is that the majority of people do as little as possible.

    Some of them can spend hours a day telling you how busy they are.

    --
    The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
  32. Because reward for job done well is more jobs. by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 4, Insightful
    People work so hard when they are young and naive because they think working hard will get them ahead, get them promotions etc etc. And the employers suck them in by giving them better pay, faster promotions etc in the early days to cement the idea they are right. Suckers!

    After making from second lieutenant to lieutenant to captain and then may be major, the reward for job done well is more work. Meanwhile the same starting class are the slackers who don't work very hard, but also not very smart, they get stuck at lower level. But a few smart slackers manage to sneak through, getting help from hard workers, finding the hard workers and joining their team and wangling some reflected glory etc etc. These are the ones, who don't work very hard, but they have the eye for figuring out who are hard working but not so astute people. They are the ones, we want in management. We find them and promote them higher than major to lt-col, brigs level. They smartly direct lots of work to hard workers who are capable of working hard.

    Of course the hard workers realize they have been had, but it would be too late. The retired majors sit in the officers club, drowning their sorrows over scotch on the rocks, will tell everyone within listening distance, "Brigadier Ramaseshan. class of 84, Rajasthan Rifles, heard of him? Let me tell you what a chump he is. Couple of years junior to me, we were..." They will be surrounded by others similar to them, "Come one, Ramaseshan is nothing. Rear Admiral Dahage, Class of 82, GOC-in-C Western Naval Command, he was once arrested by Delhi police for riding a bicycle in the Cannaught Circus into the fountain. In his pajamas! At 3 AM" "Really? I knew he was arrested, but I thought he stole a policeman's helmet or something".

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
  33. Revolutions by MrL0G1C · · Score: 2

    So, we've had an industrial revolution, a technical revolution and lately the IT revolution, these should of resulted in less work, so why are people working long hours?

    You could point out that people used to work 60-70 hours per week, but I'd point out in return that those people likely lived a few minutes away from where they worked and so the situation is nearly as bad now as it was a hundred years ago if you take commuting in to account. Salaried workers are working 49 hours per week and often commuting 10+ hours per week.

    If the French can live comfortably with a 35 hour working week then why can't the rest of us?

    --
    Waterfox - a Firefox fork with legacy extension support, security updates and better privacy by default.
    1. Re:Revolutions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because America excels at excellence.

  34. $75,000 by denzacar · · Score: 1

    Except there's not a clearly defined boundary line that a person crosses at a certain income level.

    http://content.time.com/time/m...

    The study doesn't say why $75,000 is the benchmark, but "it does seem to me a plausible number at which people would think money is not an issue," says Deaton. At that level, people probably have enough expendable cash to do things that make them feel good, like going out with friends. (The federal poverty level for a family of four, by the way, is $22,050.)

    --
    Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
    1. Re:$75,000 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yep and everyone's the average, right?

      Lmao.

    2. Re:$75,000 by volmtech · · Score: 1

      How can four people live on $22,000 a year? My SS income is $24,000 a year. Just me and my wife. My car and truck are paid for as is my home. My property tax is just $400. I rarely leave the house, no vacations or eating out. My cell phone, cable and Internet cost me $3000 a year but still I should have some money left at the end of the month but each month my credit card balance gets a little higher.

      My wife is just finishing nursing school so when she starts working our income will double so I'm good.

    3. Re:$75,000 by denzacar · · Score: 1

      Well... For one, they probably lack your cable and internet costs. And probably spend less on their mobile costs too.
      They most likely don't own their home or a car, so there are no costs related to the use and maintenance of those either. They use public transport instead.
      Then, there are food stamps, which come out to about 125$ per person, per month, if the monthly income of that family doesn't exceed 2552$ (30624$ per year).
      Which is about 6000$ in food stamps. Up to 7788$ max.
      Then there are other social programs that the families with children are eligible for.

      And then there's that bit where they are struggling, wheres you "are good" - which you are actually not, as you yourself say that your debt is creeping upward, while you're quite probably eligible for SNAP as well.

      --
      Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
  35. Re:Agree with this? Why or why not? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "I, on the other hand, have been striving for twenty years with a minimum of intervention and without destroying our production, to arrive at a new Socialist order in Germany which not only eliminates unemployment but also permits the worker to receive an ever greater share of the fruits of his labor.

    The success of this policy of economic and social reconstruction of our people, which by systematically eliminating differences of rank and class, has a true peoples' community as the final aim of the world."

    -- Adolf Hitler

    You do realise that if it were not for the whole world war 2 and attempted genocide of the jews, gypsies, disabled, blacks, etc, Hitler could have ended up being one of the better leaders of the 20th century? The economy and production of Germany under his control was through the roof but unfortunately, most of that was aimed at producing machines of war. If Hitler had of aimed his obsessions at peaceful endeavours (like the advancement of science, space exploration, etc), who knows what the world would have been like today...

  36. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  37. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  38. This is sparta? by jtayon · · Score: 2

    The amazing fact about sparta is they were outnumbered 1 vs 10 by their slaves.

    Slaves that oppositely to Athena they would overwork, underprotect and overtrain to be their cannon folder. Basically overpowering and overnumbering the citizens.

    And only twice over centuries did they have revolts. Once from the Thebans that valued critical thinking.

    Else, every culture seems to be more likely to more easy to exploit the more they were exploited.

    The "ilotes" paradox. Exploitation of slaves seems to make them more obedient to their exploitation.

  39. Not everyone gives up their only life by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    To make others rich.

  40. Work smart .... by PPH · · Score: 1

    ... not hard. My goal in life has been to accomplish as much as possible while expending the least amount of energy.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
    1. Re:Work smart .... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is why I became a sysadmin. If I'm doing my job correctly, I'm not doing shit.

  41. Work hard by DontHackMeBro · · Score: 1

    Or else we'll hire Vladimir to do you job for $5.00. That's how America works, right? Work hard for pennies and compete with Russians who charge $5/hour.

  42. Re:because - 1984 by Zeio · · Score: 3, Informative

    As monopolies and collective oligarchies continue to form and gain power most of the worlds population is no longer necessary for production so the illusion (just as in the matrix) of struggle has to be there to keep the masses believing their efforts and lives matter. War or the brink of war is usually the most effective way to keep the masses engaged in productivity tasks.

    The problem was how to keep the wheels of industry turning without increasing the real wealth of the world.
    Goods must be produced, but they need not be distributed. And in practice the only way of achieving this was by continuous warfare.

    War, it will be seen, accomplishes the necessary destruction, but accomplishes it in a psychologically acceptable way. In principle it would be quite simple to waste the surplus labour of the world by building temples and pyramids, by digging holes and filling them up again, or even by producing vast quantities of goods and then setting fire to them. But this would provide only the economic and not the emotional basis for a hierarchical society. What is concerned here is not the morale of masses, whose attitude is unimportant so long as they are kept steadily at work, but the morale of the Party itself. Even the humblest Party member is expected to be competent, industrious, and even intelligent within narrow limits, but it is also necessary that he should be a credulous and ignorant fanatic whose prevailing moods are fear, hatred, adulation, and orgiastic triumph. In other words it is necessary that he should have the mentality appropriate to a state of war. It does not matter whether the war is actually happening, and, since no decisive victory is possible, it does not matter whether the war is going well or badly. All that is needed is that a state of war should exist. The splitting of the intelligence which the Party requires of its members, and which is more easily achieved in an atmosphere of war, is now almost universal, but the higher up the ranks one goes, the more marked it becomes. It is precisely in the Inner Party that war hysteria and hatred of the enemy are strongest. In his capacity as an administrator, it is often necessary for a member of the Inner Party to know that this or that item of war news is untruthful, and he may often be aware that the entire war is spurious and is either not happening or is being waged for purposes quite other than the declared ones: but such knowledge is easily neutralized by the technique of doublethink. Meanwhile no Inner Party member wavers for an instant in his mystical belief that the war is real, and that it is bound to end victoriously, with Oceania the undisputed master of the entire world. All members of the Inner Party believe in this coming conquest as an article of faith. It is to be achieved either by gradually acquiring more and more territory and so building up an overwhelming preponderance of power, or by the discovery of some new and unanswerable weapon. The search for new weapons continues unceasingly, and is one of the very few remaining activities in which the inventive or speculative type of mind can find any outlet. In Oceania at the present day, Science, in the old sense, has almost ceased to exist. In Newspeak there is no word for " Science ". The empirical method of thought, on which all the scientific achievements of the past were founded, is opposed to the most fundamental principles of Ingsoc. And even technological progress only happens when its products can in some way be used for the diminution of human liberty. In all the useful arts the world is either standing still or going backwards. The fields are cultivated with horse-ploughs while books are written by machinery. But in matters of vital importance - meaning, in effect, war and police espionage - the empirical approach is still encouraged, or at least tolerated. - George Orwell, 1984

    The new aristocracy was made up for the most part of bureaucrats, scientists, technicians, trade-union organizers, publicity experts, sociologists, teachers, jou

    --
    Legalize the constitution. Think for yourself question authority.
  43. Isn't this a first world problem? by paiute · · Score: 1

    What is this work you are complaining about?

    --
    If Slashdot were chemistry it would look like this:Cadaverine
  44. I did it for the money and so I could retire early by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Decades earlier than my peers. It's a low cost, frugal lifestyle, but I am not missing any material comforts and eat well. Not only that, but 'stuff' has been becoming less expensive.

    A friend bought a giant flat screen tv and paid over 15k$ for it new a decade ago. I saw a better unit in costco last week for a thousand. Other than a new car, there is little I'm not 'keeping up with the Jones's' with plus I have all the time in the world and travel extensively now.

    A couple of weeks ago, I saw a guy on the news who'd done the exact same thing.

  45. Forced overtime by Stan92057 · · Score: 1

    Article wrongly worded IMO. It should have been why do we work so much overtime.. I worked hard at work because that's what you soposa do, give your best and if its not enough they will find someone else. People work so much because they are forced too wither its extra money to catch up on some bills or to fill the Xmas fund but more often then not its required/mandatory by the company your working for. Who Fired people to save money and forced the rest to work overtime. And yes their are people who love their jobs who don't bat an eye at 20 plus extra hours a week we all know someone like that im betting.

    --
    Jack of all trades,master of none
    1. Re:Forced overtime by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      You write like a 'tard, just in case you didn't know.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  46. Re:Agree with this? Why or why not? by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 2

    If Hitler had of aimed his obsessions at peaceful endeavours (like the advancement of science, space exploration, etc), who knows what the world would have been like today...

    That's because he tapped into the resentment of post World War One, as well as opening up and encouraging latent racism.

    Hatred can get a lot of stuff done in a short time, but is always self destructive in the end. When your main tool is eliminating enemies of the state, eventually everyone looks alike an enemy. His thousand year Reich only lasted a few years for a good reason.

    --
    The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
  47. Most common cause of death: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Retirement

    1. Re:Most common cause of death: by KGIII · · Score: 1

      Correlation is not causation.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
  48. Work by fluffernutter · · Score: 3, Insightful

    All I ever wanted to do was work enough so that I can enrich and enjoy life with my family. It's that simple, yet hitting that target seems to be more and more difficult as time goes on.

    --
    Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
  49. It isn't THAT unique of an addiction. by nerdpocalypse · · Score: 1

    The medial-basal brain functions to respond rapidly. The Striatum connects reward and emotion centers to immediate action centers and as such produces 'salience'. Activation of this area has emotional content. Duh. Drugs of abuse activate it. Duh. You know what else activates it? Responding to stress activates it. So, procrastination and then working really hard at the last possible time frame. Having lots of drama in a disrupted life. These all activate the same centers of the brain as drugs of abuse. but if you get work done, it is doubly reinforced.

  50. Speaking cuckoo for coco puffs by Uberbah · · Score: 1

    As to why I can afford it... Because I didn't buy the biggest house I could.

    How many people can buy a house at any price and afford to stop working for a full calendar year? This is as obnoxious as the twits who dismiss 5-6 figures in student loan debt because he put himself through college in the 80's, working summers at a hardware store. You know, when the cost of your entire degree is equal to one semester's worth of today's tuition dollars.

    1. Re:Speaking cuckoo for coco puffs by johannesg · · Score: 1

      True. Although I should probably add I've already been working for twenty years; I'm not a student anymore, and I've had the opportunity to save money. The rest is simply balancing housing needs against income. Let's face it: the vast majority of people buy the biggest house they can (and a big car, and a giant flatscreen), and then complain about lacking money. Paying off debt of any kind is not an issue to them; they honestly believe the bank is doing them a favor by lending to them. If that's how you want to live your life, great, go for it, but don't come crying when others can fulfill their dreams...

  51. Could it be... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    when you're not smart enough to work smarter, the only choice left is to work harder?

  52. Maxim Gorky's 'Mother' opens like this: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Make some appropriate cultural and social changes and I am sure you would not find much difference between this and the stressedout about healthcare and unemployment,soon-to-be-outsourced, techie life in the US.

    Every day the factory whistle bellowed forth its shrill, roaring, trembling noises into the smoke-begrimed and greasy atmosphere of the workingmen's suburb; and obedient to the summons of the power of steam, people poured out of little gray houses into the street. With somber faces they hastened forward like frightened roaches, their muscles stiff from insufficient sleep. In the chill morning twilight they walked through the narrow, unpaved street to the tall stone cage that waited for them with cold assurance, illumining their muddy road with scores of greasy, yellow, square eyes. The mud plashed under their feet as if in mocking commiseration. Hoarse exclamations of sleepy voices were heard; irritated, peevish, abusive language rent the air with malice; and, to welcome the people, deafening sounds floated about—the heavy whir of machinery, the dissatisfied snort of steam. Stern and somber, the black chimneys stretched their huge, thick sticks high above the village.
    In the evening, when the sun was setting, and red rays languidly glimmered upon the windows of the houses, the factory ejected its people like burned-out ashes, and again they walked through the streets, with black, smoke-covered faces, radiating the sticky odor of machine oil, and showing the gleam of hungry teeth. But now there was animation in their voices, and even gladness. [Pg 4]The servitude of hard toil was over for the day. Supper awaited them at home, and respite.

    The day was swallowed up by the factory; the machine sucked out of men's muscles as much vigor as it needed. The day was blotted out from life, not a trace of it left. Man made another imperceptible step toward his grave; but he saw close before him the delights of rest, the joys of the odorous tavern, and he was satisfied.

    On holidays the workers slept until about ten o'clock. Then the staid and married people dressed themselves in their best clothes and, after duly scolding the young folks for their indifference to church, went to hear mass. When they returned from church, they ate pirogs, the Russian national pastry, and again lay down to sleep until the evening. The accumulated exhaustion of years had robbed them of their appetites, and to be able to eat they drank, long and deep, goading on their feeble stomachs with the biting, burning lash of vodka.

    In the evening they amused themselves idly on the street; and those who had overshoes put them on, even if it was dry, and those who had umbrellas carried them, even if the sun was shining. Not everybody has overshoes and an umbrella, but everybody desires in some way, however small, to appear more important than his neighbor.

    Meeting one another they spoke about the factory and the machines, had their fling against their foreman, conversed and thought only of matters closely and manifestly connected with their work. Only rarely, and then but faintly, did solitary sparks of impotent thought glimmer in the wearisome monotony of their talk. Returning home they quarreled with their wives, and often beat them, unsparing of their fists. The young people sat in [Pg 5]the taverns, or enjoyed evening parties at one another's houses, played the accordion, sang vulgar songs devoid of beauty, danced, talked ribaldry, and drank.

    Exhausted with toil, men drank swiftly, and in every heart there awoke and grew an incomprehensible, sickly irritation. It demanded an outlet. Clutching tenaciously at every pretext for unloading themselves of this disquieting sensation, they fell on one another for mere trifles, with the spiteful ferocity of beasts, breaking into bloody quarrels which sometimes ended in serious injury and on rare occasions even in murder.

    This lurking malice steadily increased, inveterate as the incurable weariness in their muscles. They were born with this disease of the soul

  53. Re:because - 1984 by phantomfive · · Score: 1

    You realize we don't live in 1984, right?

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  54. What else is there in the US? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    With swine culture dominating it's not like there is an alternative. Work seems far more interesting that the "diversions" US culture provides.

  55. Re:Agree with this? Why or why not? by david_thornley · · Score: 1

    The economy of Germany was actually fairly shaky, and needed to get outside sources of money (like Austria, and Czechoslovakia, to start with) to keep going without a crash.

    --
    "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes