Ask Slashdot: Is It Time To Shrink the Ethernet Connector?

New submitter jimwelch writes: HDMI has shrunk to mini, then micro. USB has shrunk to mini, then micro. The wired Ethernet connector has not changed since 1988! On the Raspberry PI, it is the largest of the standardized connectors. Is it time to come up with a new version? What if, anything, would you like to see replace that suddenly clunky RJ-45 port? I rather like that (in theory) RJ-45 cables can't be easily dislodged, but at the same time dislike that its locking mechanism can be awfully fragile. And for that matter, I'm glad that on most of my computers so far there's been full-sized USB ports as well as full-size ethernet jacks.

Comments

Yes

[Anonymous Coward]

Let's rewire miles of data centers for no discernible purpose.

Re:Yes

[slazzy]

There would be no need to re-wire data centers. I suspect the changes would mostly be to thin laptops, and to cable modems and home routers. Servers would probably maintain full size connectors.

Re:Yes

[Anonymous Coward]

A bunch of datacenters are already switching to RJ point 5, because it halves the amount of space taken up by top-of-rack switches and patch panels. There's no need to rewire anything, as they both terminate to the same Cat6 cable, and patch cables are available for RJ.5 to RJ-45.

See here.

I'm really curious as to what sites actually have so much shit in their racks that they need to reclaim 1U by replacing the 2U 96 port ToR switch with a 1U 96 port ToR switch. I guess it might be micro, sub 1U servers, but then I wonder why they don't use backplane ethernet in these racks. Anyway someone clearly thought there was a need, and now there is RJ.5; Also microSFP, apparently, because 96 ports of 10G in 2U is not enough these days... I'm amazed they can make the thermals work to get 96x10G ports into a 1U switch or line card.

-puddingpimp

Re:Yes

[jellomizer]

One of the biggest advantage of the rj-45 port is the relative ease of making a connection. Having smaller ports means we will need factory built connectors. And need all wires to be presized for all jobs. Making wiring much more difficult.

Besides most small tech that cannot handle the RJ-45 sized ports are built fore wireless networking. Which for most used is fast enough.

Re: Yes

[Anonymous Coward]

Wireless? You mean that shit that never connects at top speed, is highly susceptible to outside interference and has a very limited range?

Re:Yes

[jandrese]

Not while fiber transceivers cost 20x as much as copper.

Re: Yes

[Pentium100]

Almost nobody uses desktops? Really? Or is it just the fact that desktops 1) can be upgraded and 2) last longer anyway, so people are not buying a new one every year like they do with a phone?

Re:Yes

[Shadow99_1]

I want to see the fibre cable that can be bent in half on itself and survive intact. It's what makes copper so useful in buildings whether in the walls/ceiling or under a desk (which inevitably gets moved around).

Re:Yes

[Spazmania]

The world is moving to fiber. Copper is so 1999.

The world won't make any serious move to fiber until the key Amphenol patents on Lightcrimp Plus expire making field terminations easy and cheap. (Lightcrimp Plus already makes them easy but not at all cheap)

Until then specific applications will use fiber but common networking will continue to use twisted pair.

Re: Yes

[Hadlock]

Someone clearly has never come in contact with a business class laptop. Your complaints about laptops are so 2004. And giving your employees laptops means making them work from home for free! Only the most important employees at my last company were issued both desktops and laptops, everyone else just got a laptop and a docking station at work.
 
Business class laptops are easy to repair and for the most part upgrade hard drives, ram, and in most cases, even the display (higher res). Not to mention "drop it on the concrete out of your car" reliable. Dell, HP, Lenovo (formerly IBM) have been doing this for years and years and years.

Re: Yes

[Pentium100]

I was not saying that laptops are difficult to repair or upgrade, though the consumer class laptops are (and business class laptops are more expensive). I just noticed that people usually keep a desktop for a long time before buying a new one (with repairs/upgrades or without), while a laptop is more easily damaged (by spilling liquid on its keyboard or something) and people buy new laptops slightly more often than desktops. OTOH, people replace phones/tablets with newer models even more often.

Which means, that the desktop sales are lower than phone sales, that makes some people say that "the desktop is dying, phones are taking over", even though pretty much everybody has a desktop or at least a laptop at home.

As for businesses, some companies that I know tend to buy desktops unless the employee needs to carry the computer with him outside of the office. The reason is that a desktop is cheaper, you can reuse an old monitor etc. Some other companies I know use 10 year old desktops ("If it was good enough when I bought it new, it's good enough now").

Re:Yes

[Outtascope]

Do you mean to say that somehow a patent has managed to stifle innovation and retard economic growth? The hell you say.

In practice

[Lorens]

it has been replaced in consumer equipment by the (very small) WiFi connector

Re:In practice

[bloodhawk]

yeah.. no. WiFi sucks balls for for anything you actually want to be reliably connected even in the home.

Re:In practice

[Gojira Shipi-Taro]

I live in a high rise apartment. There are no less than 200 Wifi networks within range of my unit. There is a FUCKTON of interference. Connections themselves may be somewhat reliable, but lag and pausing and delays are inevitable. There's not a single channel that can reliably be used. There is a tremendous amount of bandwidth connection, and there's no reasonable way to eliminate it.

For anything requiring reliable, fast, usable connections; gaming, media streaming, etc, I use a wired connection. There is no substitute in an environment like this.

As with so many "is it time" questions... no.

[PsychoSlashDot]

No. Leave it alone. Devices that are too thin for a standard jack are perfect candidates for a micro-USB ethernet adapter. The default assumption for RJ45 should remain as it is. No need for yet another connector to require we carry five different possible adapters and cables.

Re:One showstopper

[omglolbah]

It is one of the few connectors you can feel in the dark and get the damn plug in the right way on the first try, every time.

Could it be doable to make it a 'flat' connector like HDMI? Sure.. that would lower the 'vertical' footprint, but I am not sure if that would be worth the hassle.
It reminds me of the PCMCIA-connector to rj45 converters... *shudder*

If there is something I would like to never have to deal with again is having a bunch of these suckers hanging around waiting to break:
http://ep.yimg.com/ay/videowar...

Please don't

[iris-n]

Ethernet is the one reliable standard that will always work, everywhere, no questions asked. And I need it. I can go on for days without eating. I can go on for hours without drinking. Without Ethernet? Good old, reliable, wired, Ethernet? What am I alive for? And don't come with your fancy "Wi-Fi" b/g/n. It never works when you need it. Airport? Conference? eduroam? It does not work! And I need it to work, this is the Internet we're talking about!

Slashdot rule.

[msauve]

The standard rule applies. When a "Should x..." question is asked, the answer is no.

Any reduction would be at the expense of compatibility with everything which already exists. Modular connectors are reliable, cheap, easy to install, they work. Wired Enet is near end of it's capabilities (10G reduces the distance from 100 m to 15), so you'd be better off looking toward smaller fiber connectors as we move forward.

It already has been replaced by RJ.5 connectors

[Anonymous Coward]

Whoever wrote this article obviously didn't do any research first.

There is already a new standard for physical ethernet cabling, calling RJ.5 (that is, ar-jay-point-five): http://www.alliedtelesis.com/videos/RJpointfive

"Allied Telesis is one of the first networking vendors to embrace the new RJ point five Ethernet connectivity standard. Built to replace the RJ-45 standard copper Ethernet connector, the new RJ point five connectors are half the size, so you save valuable space and double your port density."

They're not popular in the marketplace because the cables are uncommon and therefore expensive, and similarly the physical jacks are uncommon and therefore expensive.

Re:One showstopper

[Shadow99_1]

Not just this, but I can go and cut and make a new cat 5/6 cable in a couple minutes. Anything smaller and I'm certainly not running a length of cable out and crimping my own RJ45 heads on. We could probably come up with something to use 'from the wall', as those 'short' runs to a PC or laptop are the smallest of all runs of the cable itself and if you really want to do that you already can with USB (though it requires an adapter and is therefore expensive).

Any replacement to Cat 5/6 and it's trusty RJ45 connectors needs to be as easy and offer as much bandwidth as the current tech to gain any traction. If it requires premade cables in a variety of lengths I just don't see it gaining any traction in a typical office or business environment. Heck one of the last places I worked for wanted me to make cables for everything because they were to cheap to have a variety of common lengths (7, 10, & 15 foot cables for instance) on hand, when we had a spool of Cat 5e cable for our wall/ceiling wiring needs.

Field installation

[Smidge204]

One of the reasons, I think, that the RJ-45 connector has lasted so long is it's very easy to field install. A bag of cable ends and a relatively inexpensive crimp tool is all you need, and the wires are easy to insert. Making a connector that's appreciably smaller would make field installation of ends that much more difficult.

Introduce a new standard and now you'll need new cables (wall jacks to device) or adapters (cables to device) to keep new things interchangeable with existing things. That doesn't simplify anything.

That's assuming it CAN be made smaller, given the cable is unlikely to change.
=Smidge=

Re:Uhhhhhhhh... No connector and no cables maybe?!

[CAOgdin]

Sure; let's set up WIFI only for Corporations with 10,000 people on a campus! Great idea!!!

What is this I don't even

[TWX]

Ethernet is an attempt to use the cheapest cable possible for the longest distance possible for the highest bandwidth possible. That's part why TIA/EIA standards do not specify the cable, they specify the performance characteristics that must be met. This is why it's possible to run Gigbit over some particularly short distances over Category 3, or why it's possible to get 10G out of 6 or 5e for some short distances.

Changing the connector means that the horizontal cable gets more expensive, the jacks get more expensive, the patch cord material and plugs get more expensive.

There already has been interest in changing the connector, larger. There was a cable that put four pins on the top to attempt to electrically separate the pairs to reduce crosstalk. It didn't take off, probably because the developer didn't want to license it cheaply enough, ie, free. There were attempts at hermaphroditic cables, but they were larger and had licensing issues.

The 8P8C jack used as RJ-45 for Ethernet, RJ-48 for T1 and ISDN, and RJ-61 for telephone is not going anywhere.

Terminator?

[AF_Cheddar_Head]

What do you mean I need a terminator, the cable just plugged right in?

A reliable standard

[pz]

The beauty of the RJ-45 standard is that it has low insertion force, a positive engagement report (the click when the cable seats properly), and it is essentially impossible to put in the wrong way. It remains in place without screws, and yet releases easily. The only shortcoming it has is the fragility of the catch mechanism when pulling cables through walls or cable trays, but various manufacturers have come up with a range of boot designs to circumvent that problem. You can recognise the connector port by feel, and know the orientation blindly (ie, around back of the equipment you can't get your head behind to be able to see). Other people might disagree, but in my experience, it's the most reliable connector in common use. Maybe the RJ-11 (standard telephone jack) was, in its heyday, more commonly deployed, but probably not. I have never, ever, not once, found a panel-mounted RJ-11 or RJ-45 that had failed.

Compare with the micro USB: insertion force is high enough that it's close to the force required to plastically deform the connector when putting it in the wrong way, yet, it can easily fall out under many circumstances. There is no positive feedback on proper seating. The holes for a micro USB are indistinguishable by feel from many other ports (at least to me). There is no retention mechanism other than friction. The connectors are very fragile, and nearly impossible to join to the cable in the field (read: you can't make your own cables). The insertion count lifetime is quite low, and I've worn out quite a few of them myself. It's a poor standard.

The folks designing the RJ-45 and its sister standards were frelling brilliant. The people designing the more recent stuff ... not so much.

Re:Yes (Nonsense!)

[Zeio]

USB is horrible. Every display port since VGA has been horrible Pick a standard and STOP.

These are the current USB:
USB 3.0 type C, USB 3.1 Type C, USB type A, USB 3.0 Type A, USB 2.0 Micro, USB 3.0 MicroB 10-pin, USB 2.0 mini-B 5 pin, USB 2.0 type B, Apple lightning

These are the current video cables:
HDMI, HDMI micro, HDMI mini, DVI dual, DVI-D single, DVI-I dual, DVI-I single, Display Port, Mini-Display Port, VGA (d-sub 15 , PC-RGB),, Thunderbolt, 3-wire component, 5 wire componen video, composite video, s-video, 13w3, 5 BNC RGB.... Cant think of more.

This rubbish has to stop. I have probably 50 cables in various card and places where computers and phones live to deal with this horrible mess.

You know how much waste this creates having to chuck cables all the time or keep piles of old ones around to deal with the fact my phones,DSLRs, camcorders currently have micro, mini and type-c all at the same time.

This is stupid, wasteful and out of control. And now with Type C there is horrible problems with getting rapid charging even from 2A chargers with certified cables (the expensive ones).

Please, for Pete's sake, please dont muck with ethernet or do it exactly one more time at most. Its sickening to think of the billions of miles of CAT5e and CAT6, even some CAT3, that would be obsoleted if the 8P8C plug was EVER changed.

Re:Thin laptop

[Anaerin]

Have a look at some of the shenanigans NIC makers had to do with PCMCIA cards: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

Re:Yes (Nonsense!)

[KGIII]

I don't know if I'd say "STOP." That seems less than intelligent to say. I'd say stop doing so for trivial reasons. I'd say stop doing so without good reasons. I'd say stop doing so for proprietary reasons. But, I'd not say stop doing so entirely.

Why? I speculate that improvements will be had in the future. I say that gains will be made and technology will advance even further. I'd rather not prevent that. I'd rather not force them to not make new standards. I'd rather they had the freedom to make newer, better, and different.

I just wish they'd not do so for trivial reasons.

Make sense?

Connector that goes in both ways

[hankwang]

All ethernet devices of the last 10+ years can autonegotiate between straight and cross-over wire configuration. So with wires on the connector organized as tx+ tx- rx- rx+ (4-wire example), a flippable connector would not require any changes in the electronics. And it would get rid of the impedance-killing central pair split in today's standard connector.

Of course, the question is whether you could make a flippable connector that's field-crimpable with simple tools.

Re:Yes (Nonsense!)

[Zeio]

I might be one port but things dont work right. I know, I have the entire bevy of these connectors, both USB and Video, and USB speed and behavior has been terrible since 3.0. Speed isnt right, amps isnt right. You can look on Amazon reviews on cables - massive complaints. There is a Google engineer "Benson Leung" that reviews cables as a hobby and checks them to see if they violate USB spec. Even with Benson approved cables the ports often do not charge correctly. Sometimes its 1A even on a 2A port. Sometimes its 2A. Its almost never does the 100 watts / 20 volts / 5A - unless you buy a charger. And type-c chargers are bloody expensive and hard to find. You need a Benson approved one and test it to see if it really rapid charges.

So yes, while type C might be closer to the ideal its a stupid joke how much they cost and how little benefit they provide over a regular stinky 2.0 micro cable these days.

So do I want more unversiality like 8P8C / "RJ45" - hell yes. Id rather wait a bit longer for 10GBASET to become practical. But wait, since there are literally TEN 10GbE standards - that would be 10 different transceivers that can be 10GbE - making fixed port SFP+ and 10GBASET restrictive and SFP+ twinax expensive and SFP+ other types of transceivers very expensive...

You know how much the cables and transceivers cost in a DC? I've seen figures in the 30% range.

You know much more expensive 10GbE because of the number of lunatic standards we had and how much cabling cost?

You see the advantage of CAT5e/CAT6 was it was useful for a VERY, very long time - since 1991. That reduces waste and cost and keeps wiring in the walls good. It was more universal then power adapters, other anything today. It was and is the entire world standard, along now with WiFi - ABGN - I've never had an issue connecting with WiFi or wired ethernet. Ever.

But the diarrhea mess of Apple and phone cables I keep in a backpack at all times. Joke. Custom power cables for laptops. a thunderbolt Ethernet, a DVII, a DVID, a display port, HDMI, mini-displayport, a VGA, type C-C, type A-C, a rapid charger, lightning-cable - all this trash being lugged around. But there is one thing I have one of. Ethernet and the wifi (wherever that is buried.within the laptop). I have a gaggle of dongles and a gaggle of USB cables and chargers because these standards suck horribly.

Re:Yes (Nonsense!)

[Half-pint HAL]

Nobody's talking about changing the wiring or the standard, as far as I can see. What people are discussing is a new standard for connectors at the end of the cable. This would not obsolete any existing equipment, as the RJ45 connector is perfect in data centre installations etc. The new standard would be targeted at portable end-user devices, things that the RJ45 connector was never designed to cope with anyway.