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Obama Lands In Cuba As First US President To Visit In Nearly A Century (theguardian.com)

An anonymous reader writes: Barack Obama descended on Cuba with a pomp unmatched by the Pope on Sunday, becoming the first American president to visit Cuba in nearly a century, and the first since a revolution led by Fidel Castro toppled a U.S.-backed strongman in 1959. As he arrived, Obama used a Cuban phrase meaning "what's up?" when he tweeted: "Que bola Cuba? Just touched down here, looking forward to meeting and hearing directly from the Cuban people." "This is a historic visit," Obama said as he greeted U.S. Embassy staff and their families at a Havana hotel. "It's an historic opportunity to engage with the Cuban people." One of the many results of the new diplomatic relations between the two countries is the ability for Cuban residents to become more connected to the internet. Reuters is reporting that Alphabet Inc's Google is poised to expand internet access in Cuba. "One of the things that we'll be announcing here is that Google has a deal to start setting up more Wi-Fi and broadband access on the island," Obama said in an ABC News interview that aired on Monday. The U.S. Treasury Department has even authorized San Francisco's Airbnb service to expand its home rental listings in Cuba to non-U.S. travelers.

147 of 242 comments (clear)

  1. Don't Let Him Back! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Please, keep him down there, with the rest of his leftist friends.

    1. Re: Don't Let Him Back! by Bartles · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The mark of a true leftist, is that they always view themselves as the political center. There's always room to move farther left, and every who disagrees is to the right.

    2. Re: Don't Let Him Back! by Deadstick · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The mark of a true leftist, is that they always view themselves as the political center.

      Does the expression "Fair and Balanced" strike a familiar note?

    3. Re: Don't Let Him Back! by legRoom · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Politics has more than one defining axis. The left/right dichotomy is very much a false one.

      Obama is quite far "left" on some social issues (i.e., homosexuality and abortion). But, I wouldn't classify him as left or right on some other important issues, such as:

      - State Surveillance - the Nazis are often held up as an example of an out-of-control "right", while Stalin's Communists are an example of an out-of-control "left". And yet, neither of them had surveillance systems as extensive as that established by Bush ("right"), Obama ("left"), and their recent predecessors.

      - The role of Wall Street in the American economy today is not consistent with either Capitalism or Communism - more like Corruption... (Again, this didn't change much under Obama versus Bush.)

      - Militarism - The drive to conquer (or merely destroy, as with Iraq, Libya, and Syria) other nations is not exclusive to either the right or the left. The way that Hitler and Stalin at first agreed to divide the conquest of Eastern Europe between the two of them at the opening of World War II is a fine example of this.

      - Religious Freedom - This has been both suppressed and supported by both the "left" and the "right" at various times and places in history.

      The whole "left versus right" thing should be ditched in favour of multi-dimensional classifications.

    4. Re: Don't Let Him Back! by avatar+avatar · · Score: 1

      That's the mark of *anyone* who doesn't base a huge part of their identity on political theater. Meanwhile, projection and making sweeping conclusions about those with whom they disagree, generally are not.

    5. Re: Don't Let Him Back! by legRoom · · Score: 2

      You can attempt to muddy the water, but the US scale of left/right is mostly focused on how much regulation is applied to capitalism, with some ancillary points as they apply to taxation and social services.

      If that's how you want to define it, then sure you can have a coherent discussion on that basis. Your definition is far from universal, though.

      If what you really mean is, "There has been a strong shift [towards deregulation of business] in America for the past 40 years[, which is a bad thing]" - then why not just say that? You'd probably provoke more thoughtful responses, and less tribalistic name-calling that way.

    6. Re: Don't Let Him Back! by Type44Q · · Score: 2

      Please snip both of these brainwashed twits so they can't reproduce.

    7. Re: Don't Let Him Back! by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      Whoever nodded this blatantly obvious shit as flamebait needs to choke to death on their own tongue.

    8. Re: Don't Let Him Back! by rtb61 · · Score: 1, Interesting

      The global balance is totally recognised. Universal health care is centrists, anything more than that is left, ie universal dental care and anything less than that is right. Barack Obama based upon activity is far right, based upon the puppet prompter and his lying mouth he is centre right and based upon election speeches he is centre left, no different to Hillary Clinton or Bill Clinton. There is no way in hell any government can pretend to call itself centre left without universal health care, just a straight up lie.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    9. Re: Don't Let Him Back! by westlake · · Score: 1

      The mark of a true leftist, is that they always view themselves as the political center. There's always room to move farther left, and every who disagrees is to the right.

      From a global perspective, Obama is unmistakably centrist or center-right.

      Though BernieSanders has described himself as a democratic socialist, Noam Chomsky has called him "basically a New Dealer." Which is about as far left as you can go in the states, and still win an election.

      Bernie Sanders

    10. Re: Don't Let Him Back! by Bartles · · Score: 1

      What's your point?

    11. Re: Don't Let Him Back! by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      His point is that you "definitions" are are straight out of Humpty-Dumpty.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    12. Re: Don't Let Him Back! by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      My dad was a Republican starting from the mid-50s, and voted for Reagan the first time. By the time Reagan was up for re-election, Dad had already seen enough of what was to come that he switched parties, and remains a Democrat to this day.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    13. Re: Don't Let Him Back! by jandersen · · Score: 1

      The mark of a true leftist, is that they always view themselves as the political center. There's always room to move farther left, and every who disagrees is to the right.

      So, you're saying that people like Ted Cruze is a Ture Leftist? As well as Donald Trump, the 13th Apostle and patron saint of all who suffer chronic constipation? All politicians will say that their views are moderate and in the center, it sort of goes with the territory.

    14. Re: Don't Let Him Back! by jcr · · Score: 1

      Since Reagan's time (actually well before then if you look at far-right groups like the John Birchers) there has been a mass movement to deregulate businesses.

      Regrettably, this turns out not to be the case. The rate of piling on regulations slowed a bit during the Regan years, but the major de-regulations like ending AT&T's government-granted monopoly, and deregulating air travel and interstate trucking predated him.

      Regulations on activities like medicine and banking ran amok, resulting in the healthcare crisis and the Great Recession.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    15. Re: Don't Let Him Back! by jedrek · · Score: 1

      It's hard to discuss left/right politics with Americans when the death penalty discussion there isn't, "should the state kill prisoners" but, "should the state kill mentally retarded children".

    16. Re: Don't Let Him Back! by dywolf · · Score: 1

      the projection is strong with this one.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    17. Re: Don't Let Him Back! by BadgerRush · · Score: 1

      Actually that happens much more often on the right, at least in the USA, where everyone a tiny bit less rightist is incorrectly labeled a leftist.

      The true right-left axis is closely tied to the ownership of the means of production (ownership including decision-making and wealth extracting). Along this axis the right being ownership by few (oligarchy), or ownership by the financial capital (capitalism), while left being ownership by all the people (comunism) or ownership by the labour capital (socialism). So, a center would be something like the German system, a capitalist society where employees have some seats in the board of directors of their own companies (capitalist with a sprinkle of socialist).

      By all his feats, Obama is a neoliberal (just like the majority of the USA Democratic party), a ideology that is well established to be a right-wing ideology. Yet right-wingers love to say that he is leftist. That is a form of propaganda used to shift the axis further to the right, after all, if you call Obama a leftist, then the "center" will be somewhere between the right and the right, and consequently even the most mild, obvious, and coherent leftist idea will be considered an extremist absurd.

    18. Re: Don't Let Him Back! by painandgreed · · Score: 1

      Forget about left/right wing politics for a while.

      How about Law/Chaos?

    19. Re: Don't Let Him Back! by eric_harris_76 · · Score: 1

      "Barney Miller" dialog, from an episode about a guy with a pornography collection:

      Arrested Man (in lockup): I'm not a pervert, I'm a scholar.

      Dietrich: There's no reason you cann't be both.

      No reason they can both be.

      --
      There's no time like the present. Well, the past used to be.
    20. Re:Don't Let Him Back! by MoarSauce123 · · Score: 1

      Leftist? Obama is a Democrat in name only. Sanders is a center Democrat. There are no leftists in US politics, which is traditional way too far right-wing nationalistic and business oriented.

    21. Re: Don't Let Him Back! by MoarSauce123 · · Score: 1

      The fascist right-extremist Reps see themselves as mainstream as well. They even had their shot with the numerous Tea Party candidates that in the past years accomplished absolutely nothing other than destroy their own party. On top of that the Rep leadership is ridiculously stupid and detached from reality, clearly demonstrated by them allowing Trump to join and figuring he'd fizzle out like a wet balloon. The only thing that keeps me from dismissing the Reps entirely is that they so far did not dare to rally behind Cruz. They are better off with a moron like Trump than with a Christian terrorist like Cruz.

    22. Re: Don't Let Him Back! by MoarSauce123 · · Score: 1

      The key is to shift heavily from bare bones jobs such as driving a truck to brainy jobs such as designing and engineering product. Unfortunately, the US is in a very bad position: they dismantled their infrastructure in the 50s and 60s to focus entirely on an unsustainable system of roads and highways, they shifted higher education expenses away from academia to administration and college athletics (expenses for academia are flat through the past ten years while administrative expenses at universities rose by 300%!), they consolidated small high schools into big educational factories that consistently fail to deliver results and focus on everything other than core competencies, modern infrastructure such as power and telecommunication is old and error prone, traditional infrastructure such as water and sewer lines are often still original equipment from over 100 years ago. There are gazillion public projects worth tackling, several of them in competition to commercial businesses such as municipal fiber networks. Sadly, most of the conservatives see spending money on these projects as "government handouts", "socialism", "not letting the markets do their thing". Likewise, much more effort needs to be put into R&D based on federal grants because companies won't do it since it is not guaranteed to generate positive cash flow within the quarter. None of that will be possible with a conservative majority, but even more than that, it requires a significant shift in view and attitude across the nation. Until then, let's reactivate and rebuild rail links so that we do not have to dodge the autonomous trucks that are not smart enough to drive safely.

    23. Re: Don't Let Him Back! by Bartles · · Score: 1

      What does fascist mean to you? Clearly it's different than what it is generally understood to mean.

  2. This is quite possibly the photo of the year by Lisandro · · Score: 2
    1. Re:This is quite possibly the photo of the year by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Obama portrayed under the looming eye of a mass murderer............ fitting

    2. Re:This is quite possibly the photo of the year by Pumpkin+Tuna · · Score: 1
    3. Re:This is quite possibly the photo of the year by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      This is quite possibly the photo of the year

      Before you congratulate yourself for cleverness, you might want to look at this:

      http://cache2.asset-cache.net/...

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    4. Re:This is quite possibly the photo of the year by DaHat · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And yet due to Reagan, you don't exactly see all that many Lenin statues in the world anymore.

      Sadly I don't see hipsters & their Che t-shirts going away anytime soon.

    5. Re:This is quite possibly the photo of the year by Bartles · · Score: 2

      Like ISIS? I mean ISIL? I mean Daesh?

    6. Re: This is quite possibly the photo of the year by Lisandro · · Score: 1

      "Cleverness"? What the hell are you taking about?

      In any case I'm clever enough to understand Reagan has been dead for over a decade now, so unless he's a zombie now he is out of this competition...

    7. Re:This is quite possibly the photo of the year by DaHat · · Score: 4, Funny

      I think he's blaming Reagan for the Barbary pirates.

    8. Re: This is quite possibly the photo of the year by Lisandro · · Score: 1

      About what? Sheeze, i was not making a political statement. It is an amazing photograph, however you feel about the subjects.

    9. Re:This is quite possibly the photo of the year by Livius · · Score: 1

      You misspelled "Gorbachev".

    10. Re:This is quite possibly the photo of the year by squiggleslash · · Score: 2

      Reagan had nothing to do with that, that was Gorbachev (mixed with bad fifty years of terrible economic management leaving the USSR desperate for change.) Reagan was merely President at the time it happened. In an alternate future, you're claiming Dukakis brought down Communism.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    11. Re: This is quite possibly the photo of the year by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      How do you think Ollie got the guns to Iran??

    12. Re: This is quite possibly the photo of the year by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      Dukakis brought down Communism

      Apparently his wife would down Aqua Velva...

    13. Re: This is quite possibly the photo of the year by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      He had no brain and could still smile for the camera; surely that's some sort of clever...

    14. Re:This is quite possibly the photo of the year by steveha · · Score: 1

      Why should we care about this photo of President Obama:

      http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/433048/barack-obama-che-guevara-american-people

      Imagine being [a Cuban-American] and seeing celebratory images of Guevara all around you. Imagine—even further—being the son or daughter of someone whom Guevara personally executed. There are such people in the United States. Or imagine—further yet—being a Cuban political prisoner, and knowing that masses in free countries were wearing Che on their chests.

      http://www.nationalreview.com/article/215531/che-chic-jay-nordlinger

      Imagine the above-mentioned people seeing this photo of President Obama.

      --
      lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
    15. Re:This is quite possibly the photo of the year by sociocapitalist · · Score: 1

      Or a strong contender, at the very least.

      Or it would be if Obama's head were down just a bit lower and to the right

      --
      blindly antisocialist = antisocial
    16. Re:This is quite possibly the photo of the year by dywolf · · Score: 1

      maybe because Lenin, like Mao, or Che, or Lincoln, is only really important in one nation.
      and yes, there are still plenty of Lenin statues around Russia, and hes still seen as a great leader there, with his tomb being a very popular destination.

      this may come as a shock to you...but the US isn't the only nation in the world to have large public displays of its cultural heroes, especially in its capitol.

      but if you cant remember that, you may have also forgotten the Bitburg Controversy, another (in a series) and embarrassing incidents for Reagan.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    17. Re:This is quite possibly the photo of the year by dywolf · · Score: 1

      also, you give Reagan far too much credit, both for the allusion to ending communism, and to reducing the legacy of Lenin.
      the person who did the most to undermine Lenin's legacy was Stalin.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    18. Re:This is quite possibly the photo of the year by dywolf · · Score: 1

      why you shouldn't:
      http://mediamatters.org/resear...

      I know its shocking...but foreign countries also have monuments to their cultural or political heroes too.
      We've got monuments to just as bad if not worse. Southern states still celebrate men who fought to retain slavery.

      Bonus: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    19. Re:This is quite possibly the photo of the year by steveha · · Score: 1

      foreign countries also have monuments to their cultural or political heroes too.

      It's a fair point: if our President visits a foreign country, he will be photographed in front of political art in that foreign country. When Reagan visited the Soviet Union, he was photographed in front of art of Lenin, and Lenin had an even higher body count than Che Guevara.

      But the charge I level against President Obama is that he his helping the government of Cuba without getting anything at all in return. When Nixon went to China, I don't think he helped the government of China, but in any event China was one of the three superpowers and he was there to negotiate. (As I understand it he wanted to make sure that China and the USSR didn't become too cozy.) President Obama could have ignored Cuba, or at least stayed away; there is nothing of value at stake.

      As I understand it, President Obama believes that normalizing relations with Cuba will, in the long run, benefit the people of Cuba. I truly hope that he is right and I am wrong about this. I would rather be wrong and have the people of Cuba benefit, than be right and have them continue to suffer.

      But at the moment I agree with this piece: https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/03/21/i-was-a-prisoner-of-castros-regime-obamas-visit-to-cuba-is-a-mistake/

      Bonus: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitburg_controversy_(1985)

      I read through that article. It doesn't seem relevant. The Bitburg thing was a unique scenario: Reagan was paying back a favor, nobody realized at first that there might be SS buried in the graveyard, the German people overwhelmingly were in favor of the visit going forward, Reagan changed his speech to address the controversy, and Reagan visited a concentration camp afterward.

      --
      lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
  3. Wifi by slapout · · Score: 2

    Because when you need basic things like food and shelter, nothing satisfies like wifi.

    --
    Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad
    1. Re:Wifi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      How much do you know about Cuba?

      They are still receiving food aid (small island, large population) but nobody would starve without it; it's not like 1994. And I doubt their homelessness rate is much different to that in major US cities.

      Cuba is not your average poor country; 'basic things' they generally have, like high literacy (higher than the USA), good doctors that don't cost a fortune (unlike the USA).

      The picture is more complicated than you have been led to believe.

    2. Re:Wifi by gstoddart · · Score: 5, Informative

      How much do you know about Cuba?

      They are still receiving food aid (small island, large population) but nobody would starve without it; it's not like 1994.

      How much do you know about Cuba? Have you been there?

      I've been there several times, and trust me, the levels of abject poverty in Cuba is a lot higher than you seem to think. You don't need to go very far to find people living in cinder block homes with dirt floors and a couple of chickens scratching in the yard. And that's a couple of notches above poor by Cuban standards.

      The official rations people get? A bit of beans and rice per person, and people who are trained as engineers and doctors are working as bartenders because it pays a lot more.

      Yes, they have education and health care, but much beyond that and there's probably a lot of people who are literally starving.

      The picture is more complicated than you have been led to believe.

      That cuts two ways. Cuba isn't a land of plenty, they've come a long way, but there's still a tremendous amount of poverty, and there are many many things they simply cannot get ... like basic toiletries and the like.

      Cuba is a very poor country, with pockets where some people can make a lot of extra money working in the tourist trade.

      But there's also people who are pan-handling, and waiting for the side of the road to catch a ride on an overcrowded bus which wouldn't even be legal to operate in a first world country.

      The difference between the resorts and the rural parts of Cuba are massive. And increasingly in the larger cities there are huge signs of outright poverty.

      It's very complex indeed. But if you think people aren't actually at risk of starving, you really know a lot less than you think.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    3. Re:Wifi by Bartles · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Who collects the data and compiles the statistics on things like literacy rate and access to health care in Cuba?

    4. Re:Wifi by dryeo · · Score: 1

      The real question is how does Cuba compare to other similar countries. Is the average Haitian better off then the average Cuban? Does the average Cuban have to worry about death squads like much of Latin America? Do Cubans worry about getting beheaded for expressing themselves like many Mexicans do? How many children are forced to go bare footed due to not being able to afford shoes? How's the crime rate?
      Is the average Cuban better off then the average Cuban in 1958?

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    5. Re: Wifi by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      They are still receiving food aid (small island, large population) but nobody would starve without it

      That's neat how you can form words with your asshole...

    6. Re:Wifi by Notorious+G · · Score: 1

      How much do you know about Cuba?

      They are still receiving food aid (small island, large population) but nobody would starve without it; it's not like 1994.

      How much do you know about Cuba? Have you been there?

      I spent about 3 months in Cuba in 1989, it's a great place, a real tropical paradise. Unfortunately, it's the kind of paradise that causes well educated and trained engineers to float on makeshift rafts through 60 miles of shark infested waters for a chance to wash dishes in Fort Lauderdale.

  4. Cruz isn't a fan by steveha · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Here is what Senator Ted Cruz wrote about this:

    News reports say there are more than 100 long-term prisoners of conscience in Cuba. Nobody knows for sure, as the Castro regime does not grant international organizations access to its prisons. But we know they are there and that hundreds are held for shorter periods, and beaten in prison regularly.

    Just two months ago, the president told Yahoo News that he would only travel to Cuba "if, in fact, I with confidence can say that we're seeing some progress in the liberty and freedom and possibilities of ordinary Cubans. ... If we're going backwards, then there's not much reason for me to be there."

    I have news, Mr. President: No progress has taken place. Cuba is going backward.

    http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/03/obama-cuba-visit-ted-cruz-213749

    If you are a fan of President Obama, could you please explain to me why you think Senator Cruz is wrong about this? Because at the moment I agree with Senator Cruz. President Obama's administration has dropped the embargo and helped out the government of Cuba, and I'm not aware of a single demand that Cuba has granted in return. Set free political prisoners? Allow Amnesty International to visit the prisons? Maybe beat the political prisoners a little bit less? No, no, and no.

    Not only did President Obama not make any demands of Cuba, but now Cuba is making demands of President Obama. Pay reparations, return Guantanamo Bay.

    I do hope that President Obama will at least use his "bully pulpit" to say something about human rights in Cuba. Words are what he is best at. I would have preferred a binding agreement, but he already didn't do that.

    --
    lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
    1. Re:Cruz isn't a fan by MightyMartian · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The US does business with countries like China and Saudi Arabia, so why would Cuba be left out in the cold? Besides, the national interest is best served by not having China replacing Russia as a major force in Cuba, which is exactly what will happen if relations and trade with Cuba are not normalized.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    2. Re:Cruz isn't a fan by Pumpkin+Tuna · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Flip it around. Has our policy of embargo and detachment helped any of those people? How many "prisoners of conscience" does China hold? Is Cruz proposing we embargo them too? I doubt it. I'm not sure if opening relations with Cuba will fix it. But we know that China is more open now than it was. At least it's worth trying.

    3. Re:Cruz isn't a fan by jittles · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Here is what Senator Ted Cruz wrote about this:

      News reports say there are more than 100 long-term prisoners of conscience in Cuba. Nobody knows for sure, as the Castro regime does not grant international organizations access to its prisons. But we know they are there and that hundreds are held for shorter periods, and beaten in prison regularly.

      Just two months ago, the president told Yahoo News that he would only travel to Cuba "if, in fact, I with confidence can say that we're seeing some progress in the liberty and freedom and possibilities of ordinary Cubans. ... If we're going backwards, then there's not much reason for me to be there."

      I have news, Mr. President: No progress has taken place. Cuba is going backward.

      http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/03/obama-cuba-visit-ted-cruz-213749

      If you are a fan of President Obama, could you please explain to me why you think Senator Cruz is wrong about this? Because at the moment I agree with Senator Cruz. President Obama's administration has dropped the embargo and helped out the government of Cuba, and I'm not aware of a single demand that Cuba has granted in return. Set free political prisoners? Allow Amnesty International to visit the prisons? Maybe beat the political prisoners a little bit less? No, no, and no.

      Not only did President Obama not make any demands of Cuba, but now Cuba is making demands of President Obama. Pay reparations, return Guantanamo Bay.

      I do hope that President Obama will at least use his "bully pulpit" to say something about human rights in Cuba. Words are what he is best at. I would have preferred a binding agreement, but he already didn't do that.

      Maybe because the embargo probably really isn't doing any good and there's no reason to continue it? Nobody is going to try and host nuclear weapons there ever again, I don't think. And we're not going to win any friends by trying to destroy the economy of the country. I'm not saying that we should concede to any demands about Gitmo (though I do not agree with the prison camp there), but we could certainly be better neighbors to Cuba and many other Latin American countries.

    4. Re:Cruz isn't a fan by iggymanz · · Score: 5, Insightful

      the countries we do billions of dollars of business with a year do far, far worse than Cuba and no one gives a shit. why make Cuba special, I don't get it.

    5. Re:Cruz isn't a fan by Galaga88 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What has the fifty or sixty years of the embargo achieved on that front? The status quo has achieved nothing so far.

      Let Cuba have a hit of sweet, sweet capitalism. Once they get hooked, we can refuse to offer more unless they start doing what we want.

    6. Re:Cruz isn't a fan by steveha · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The US does business with countries like China and Saudi Arabia, so why would Cuba be left out in the cold?

      I'm not a fan of dictatorships but I do understand the realities of the world. The USA can't just snap its fingers and reform China or Saudi Arabia, or even Cuba.

      But what I'm talking about is using the historic, one-time-only opportunity of getting something in exchange for lifting the embargo. We don't have any similar embargo on China and Saudi Arabia, so they are not very relevant to my question: why did the Obama administration simply unilaterally drop the embargo without getting anything in return?

      the national interest is best served by not having China replacing Russia as a major force in Cuba, which is exactly what will happen if relations and trade with Cuba are not normalized.

      So, it's not worth making even the smallest effort to help out the prisoners of conscience? The one-sided deal where the government of Cuba gets what it wants, and the USA demands nothing, is the best possible deal?

      Maybe it is. If so, I'd like for someone to make that case.

      I do agree that China having Cuba in its pocket is undesirable. And I realize that really major demands (break the dictatorship and hold free elections, etc.) would never be met. But again, the appearance here is that the Obama administration granted a huge boon to the government of Cuba, no strings attached, and I don't understand why that's a good deal (or even the best possible deal).

      --
      lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
    7. Re:Cruz isn't a fan by steveha · · Score: 1

      I wish to make a correction: the Obama administration has not yet unilaterally dropped the embargo; the article contains quotes saying they want to do it, but it hasn't happened yet.

      From the article:

      "We want to make the process of normalisation irreversible," said US national security adviser Ben Rhodes, who led an advance party to Havana this week, and also oversaw the secret talks in Canada that led up to the 2014 deal.

      Though the president announced last Sunday that he believes Congress will finally lift the trade embargo once has he gone, even some of his own party are nervous that he has already offered too much too easily.

      --
      lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
    8. Re:Cruz isn't a fan by steveha · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Let Cuba have a hit of sweet, sweet capitalism. Once they get hooked, we can refuse to offer more unless they start doing what we want.

      This sounds like a great plan. But why do you think it is going to happen? Is the government of Cuba about to allow free enterprise by its citizens?

      The Economy of Cuba is a planned economy dominated by state-run enterprises. Most industries are owned and operated by the government and most of the labor force is employed by the state.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Cuba

      Actually, that article goes on to say that after the Soviet Union collapsed, the government of Cuba began to allow a tiny amount of free enterprise. But:

      Investment is restricted and requires approval by the government. The government sets most prices and rations goods to citizens.

      I agree, if the people of Cuba get a taste of free enterprise they will want more. But I fear the government of Cuba knows this and will not cooperate with the plan.

      --
      lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
    9. Re:Cruz isn't a fan by avandesande · · Score: 3

      Even when I was a middle school student in the 80s the whole Cuba thing seemed silly. While I think the Obama administration has had plenty of failures I believe this is one of his better initiatives.

      --
      love is just extroverted narcissism
    10. Re:Cruz isn't a fan by Yunzil · · Score: 1

      But what I'm talking about is using the historic, one-time-only opportunity of getting something in exchange for lifting the embargo.

      They survived 50+ years with the embargo in place, what makes you think they'd be willing to trade something to get it lifted?

    11. Re:Cruz isn't a fan by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      The leaders survived like kings. Their subjects, not so much.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    12. Re:Cruz isn't a fan by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 2, Informative

      A lot of Cubans had their property seized and fled to Florida. They want it back, or compensation. Hence the law allowing them to sue any foreign company doing business in the US that also does business in Cuba.

      Now most are dead, so the government can blow off their political interests.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    13. Re:Cruz isn't a fan by Yunzil · · Score: 1

      And it would be the leaders who would have to agree to a bargain so.....

    14. Re:Cruz isn't a fan by legRoom · · Score: 1

      What has the embargo of Cuba actually accomplished (in recent decades), other than impoverishing its people? How has it improved the political situation there, or American security?

      Those are serious questions - I'd really don't understand why the embargo wasn't lifted 2+ decades ago.

    15. Re:Cruz isn't a fan by hey! · · Score: 1

      Florida is a swing state.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    16. Re:Cruz isn't a fan by shapano · · Score: 2

      My ancestors had their land seized during a revolution as well. They stayed loyal to King George during the American Revolution. They owned about a quarter of what is present day Philadelphia. Can we get that back too?

    17. Re:Cruz isn't a fan by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      But what I'm talking about is using the historic, one-time-only opportunity of getting something in exchange for lifting the embargo. We don't have any similar embargo on China and Saudi Arabia, so they are not very relevant to my question: why did the Obama administration simply unilaterally drop the embargo without getting anything in return?

      That's basically what Donald Trump is saying. That he's the negotiator, and he can get stuff in return for stuff. He even wrote a book about negotiating.

      So, it's not worth making even the smallest effort to help out the prisoners of conscience? The one-sided deal where the government of Cuba gets what it wants, and the USA demands nothing, is the best possible deal?

      Obama has the idea that the best way to fix Cuba is by making them successful, since decades of embargo have done nothing. That is the strategy he is following. Yeah, he's not negotiating the best deal out of it, but you know, next time elect the guy who wrote The Art of the Deal. Maybe that will go better for you.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    18. Re:Cruz isn't a fan by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      This sounds like a great plan. But why do you think it is going to happen? Is the government of Cuba about to allow free enterprise by its citizens?

      In practice, we've seen that as countries go richer, they start to demand more and more political power, and then the people throw off the dictatorship. A pattern followed in S Korea, and Taiwan, for example.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    19. Re:Cruz isn't a fan by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      The people who were kind enough to provide them refuge in Florida now want to go to Cuba on vacation and drink Cuban rum and watch babes on the beach. They should not be asses.

    20. Re: Cruz isn't a fan by hackwrench · · Score: 1

      I'm not particularly fond of Obama, but if Cruz is right about this, it's the stopped clock right twice a day kind of right. The guy makes fun of Trump and then says he hasn't... I might technically not be correct in that he might have said he won't make fun of Trump, which usually means going forward, but my memory of the situation was that it was said in the context of whether he had made fun of Trump, though I now seem to recall that he said something like he wouldn't make fun of people like Trump does. Memory plays tricks and I'm on my phone right now, so its harder to research. I would normally be able to access my computer from my phone, but I had to disable VNC in order to address a problem with my PC. Take that, Terminator: Genesys.

      Spoiler warning: For those of you who were never interested in Terminator or simply gave up on it, Terminator: Genesys mainly takes place in a nexus of sorts that apparently was a dumping ground for a number of parallel universes, one of which rebuilt John Connor into a loyal cyborg the mission of which is to create a new consumer-oriented software, Genesys, that presumably sees humanity as a threat to its existence and the only selling point the audience was given was that it would let all your computer devices work together and that's something that already comes in various shapes and forms at no extra cost in terms of money today. When was VNC first out? Because I could access my home computer desktop, again with NAT addressing from the College computers as if I was sitting at it back in 2001. And not quite the same there were time-share mainframes and BBSs before that... What was my original topic again? Oh yeah... It was that I didn't want to risk losing my post to check the details of what Cruz said that would cause me not to think this statement of his wasn't trustworthy. I hope someone or several finds this post amusing.

    21. Re:Cruz isn't a fan by dryeo · · Score: 1

      That's true of most of Central and South America as well as 3rd world countries every where. Is the average Haitian better off then the average Cuban? What about Dubai, where the workers are dieing like flies? Saudi Arabia, where woman aren't even allowed to drive, little well have any other civil rights, and the imported labour is also treated like shit.
      There's a lot of shithole countries, many where the poor are treated a lot worse then Cuba. This includes pre-Castro Cuba, which I understand had death squads, leaders who lived like Kings while their subjects were forced to whore themselves out for a piece of bread.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    22. Re:Cruz isn't a fan by Livius · · Score: 1

      Because Cuba was treated like a colony and then made itself independent.

      Same reason as the irrational hate towards Iran.

    23. Re:Cruz isn't a fan by Kant_resistor · · Score: 2

      You know Cruz is lying because his lips are moving. Cuba was left out in the cold because it produces sugar and tobacco, the latter of which Jesse Helms did not want competing with North Carolina's production. (Wikipedia:"As long-time chairman of the powerful Senate Foreign Relations Committee, he demanded a staunchly anti-communist foreign policy that would reward America's friends abroad, and punish its enemies.") Thereafter, Cuba presented a huge challenge to the Florida tourism industry, as it allowed gambling, had fabulous women and beaches, and kicks the stuffing out of the rest of the Caribbean Islands for quality of life. So it had to be destroyed. The Cuba policy had nothing to do with political ideology. Follow the money....

    24. Re: Cruz isn't a fan by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      It probably didn't help that the Cubans kicked out the mob...

    25. Re:Cruz isn't a fan by blind+biker · · Score: 1

      As long as the US does business with White ISIS (Saudi Arabia), your point is practically moot.

      --
      "The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
    26. Re:Cruz isn't a fan by Evtim · · Score: 1

      So how about inspection of the US interrogation centers? No? I thin you should be placed under embargo..

      Don't be silly, there are no good guys in politics.

    27. Re:Cruz isn't a fan by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      Is that the same Ted Cruz who boasted about "winning states from Maine to Alaska"? Just asking.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    28. Re:Cruz isn't a fan by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      "That Gantt fellow seems all right and we all know Jesse's a bastard... but I could never tell my pa that I voted for a nigger."

      One of the things that made me quite happy to leave North Carolina.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    29. Re:Cruz isn't a fan by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      Who the heck modded this Flamebait? Someone who's never been to China or any of the former Warsaw Pact countries, I'm guessing...

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    30. Re:Cruz isn't a fan by sysrammer · · Score: 1

      Some of my ancestors had their land seized, too! Damned cowboys.

      --
      His ignorance covered the whole earth like a blanket, and there was hardly a hole in it anywhere. - Mark Twain
    31. Re:Cruz isn't a fan by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      The last 40 years in the US just add weight to the argument by providing an example of the converse.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    32. Re:Cruz isn't a fan by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 2

      They didn't make any concessions for decades; why would they suddenly do so now?

      The only thing that the embargo accomplishes is the negative effect on Cuban economy, which affects the general populace, not the rulers.

      It was an absurd measure to begin with, and by now it's lost all semblance of rationality.

    33. Re:Cruz isn't a fan by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Indeed. And you don't need to go anywhere for that. Just take a look at this video - the queue to the first McDonald's open in Moscow, back in 1990 (so still USSR):

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

    34. Re:Cruz isn't a fan by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      That's a nice theory, except that the US has never *not* recognised Burma that I'm aware of.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    35. Re:Cruz isn't a fan by Gavagai80 · · Score: 1

      But why do you think it is going to happen? Is the government of Cuba about to allow free enterprise by its citizens?

      Take a look at the facts on the ground. Free enterprise has been growing considerably in Cuba the last few years, though largely from the bottom up with self-employment.

      --
      This space intentionally left blank
    36. Re:Cruz isn't a fan by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      On my first visit to the mainland, I got treated to a lattè and a slice of cheesecake at a Starbucks in Foshan by some soldiers who worked at the PLA recruiting station next door to the mall. Nice guys.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    37. Re:Cruz isn't a fan by dywolf · · Score: 1

      well today's your lucky day!

      He embarrassed Castro in public on live Cuban TV about exactly those human rights issues at their bilateral press conference.
      http://www.politico.com/story/...

      Not that the RW media is covering it.
      All they've done the past 24 hours is talk about Obama daring to let his picture be taken while a giant Che monument was in the background...
      in a foreign nation's capitol, where such things tend to exist...
      and much wailing and gnashing of teeth has ensued.

      I swear if the man walked on water they'd say he can't swim.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    38. Re:Cruz isn't a fan by Zontar_Thing_From_Ve · · Score: 1

      If you are a fan of President Obama, could you please explain to me why you think Senator Cruz is wrong about this? Because at the moment I agree with Senator Cruz. President Obama's administration has dropped the embargo and helped out the government of Cuba, and I'm not aware of a single demand that Cuba has granted in return.

      The embargo is not dropped. It should be in my opinion, but I get no say. Congress has to make the decision. They have not done so.

      Not exactly what you're looking for, but Cuba did us a huge favor recently that they didn't have to do. Since everything is always better if you let private industry do it (rolling my eyes as I write that), the geniuses who outsource everything they can hired a French company to ship a Hellfire missile back to the USA. Only it didn't go to the USA at all. It "mistakenly" went to Cuba. Was it a mistake? Was it a devious plan? Who knows? But Cuba shipped it back to the USA without any problems. That wouldn't have happened just a few years ago.

      I don't claim to be a Cuban expert, but if they were given truly free elections I'm not sure that they wouldn't just freely choose to keep Raul Castro and the Communist Party in power. The fact that there are dissidents doesn't necessarily mean that most people there are extremely unhappy with the government. Americans may not understand that, but that doesn't mean it's now how it is.

    39. Re:Cruz isn't a fan by T.E.D. · · Score: 2

      I wish to make a correction: the Obama administration has not yet unilaterally dropped the embargo

      Even your correction needs a correction. The word "yet" there is just silly. This has nothing to do with Obama. Only Congress can remove the embargo. Considering our current Congress makes the term "act of Congress" an oxymoron, and has primarily spent the last 6 years cosplaying Khan from Star Trek II whenever Obama says he'd like something, I don't think anyone has to worry themselves much that they might soon do so.

    40. Re:Cruz isn't a fan by Notorious+G · · Score: 1

      What has the fifty or sixty years of the embargo achieved on that front? The status quo has achieved nothing so far.

      Let Cuba have a hit of sweet, sweet capitalism. Once they get hooked, we can refuse to offer more unless they start doing what we want.

      I tend to agree. Want to change the world and promote peace and prosperity on a global scale, export capitalism aggressively.

  5. Re:Obama is a traitor by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

    How does any sane person not see that?

    Presidents generally have leeway in how their administration implements the law. Just because you don't like the actions that Obama has taken on immigration doesn't mean that he committed treason.

  6. Re:Obama is a traitor by MightyMartian · · Score: 5, Informative

    Because even if he's breaking laws, that's not treason...

    Treason has a rather specific definition, and not merely "I don't like that guy..."

    --
    The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
  7. Not an Obama accomplishment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Well, the Cubans didn't have many choices after the Russia let them down after the fall of Berlin's wall and the years following the change in the regime and the Venezuela no longer being able to provide them with almost free oil due to a collapsing market. This time, they were really strangled, that's why Raul started to think about opening the Cuban economy.

    So, whoever would have been POTUS at this time, the Cubans didn't have choice. That's why Obama could have been much more hard on business a insist to obtain effective changes in the human rights in Cuba, unfortunately, he didn't.

    1. Re:Not an Obama accomplishment by sysrammer · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I hear what you're saying, but I don't see the US having much of a moral platform on this, as we have the largest per capita prison population in the world.

      --
      His ignorance covered the whole earth like a blanket, and there was hardly a hole in it anywhere. - Mark Twain
    2. Re:Not an Obama accomplishment by AchilleTalon · · Score: 1

      The largest per capita prison population doesn't mean anything alone. USA is also having the largest per capita illegal immigrants population. There is a lot of good and legitimate reasons to put someone in prison. The prisons in USA are not full of political prisoneers.

      --
      Achille Talon
      Hop!
    3. Re:Not an Obama accomplishment by sysrammer · · Score: 1

      Considering that the huge prison population is disenfranchised, I guess that'll have to do for "political prisoners" until some come along.

      --
      His ignorance covered the whole earth like a blanket, and there was hardly a hole in it anywhere. - Mark Twain
    4. Re:Not an Obama accomplishment by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      The largest per capita prison population doesn't mean anything alone. USA is also having the largest per capita illegal immigrants population.

      Not been to Germany or Sweden recently, I take it?

      There is a lot of good and legitimate reasons to put someone in prison. The prisons in USA are not full of political prisoneers.

      Just lots and lots of non-violent drug offenders. But that's not a political issue at all, is it?

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    5. Re:Not an Obama accomplishment by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      (Or Greece, or Turkey, either, for that matter.)

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
  8. Re:Obama is a traitor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The first president to go from Air Force One to the No-fly List because of his ties to radical islam.

  9. Re:While we're all bemoaning wretched Guantanamo by iggymanz · · Score: 4, Insightful

    As opposed to say what Saudis do, or the Chinese? I don't understand why people get fixated on the problems with Cuba when other nations that do far, far worse are our best pals and we do billions of dollars of business with those dirtbags.

  10. Re:Obama is a traitor by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

    A pretty fucking considerably different situation, and I tend to be on Snowden's side.

    --
    The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
  11. Re:Obama is a traitor by mark-t · · Score: 1

    To answer your question, people who actually keep up with news.

  12. First since 1959? Or first in nearly a century? by mark-t · · Score: 1

    If both, how is more than 45% less than something considered "nearly"?

    1. Re:First since 1959? Or first in nearly a century? by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      Obama is the first sitting US President to visit Cuba since 1928 (Calvin Coolidge). That's 88 years.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    2. Re:First since 1959? Or first in nearly a century? by Soulskill · · Score: 1

      The last U.S. president to visit was Coolidge in 1928. They mention 1959 because that's when the U.S. effectively lost its influence there.

    3. Re:First since 1959? Or first in nearly a century? by solartear · · Score: 1

      The sentence did NOT imply a sitting USA President was in Cuba DURING the revolution. Just like the 1928 visit being the first since independence does not mean one was there when Cuba received independence.

    4. Re:First since 1959? Or first in nearly a century? by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      Jinx! You owe me a beer. :)

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
  13. I'm so jaded by NotSoHeavyD3 · · Score: 2

    That I'm guessing that he didn't re-open relations with Cuba because it was the right thing to do and he actually did it as a favor to Google for lending him all the people that ran the IT portion of his campaign. (Since they apparently want to expand their business into Cuba.)

    --
    Did you know 80 to 90% of the moderators on slashdot wouldn't recognize a troll even if one dragged them under a bridge.
    1. Re:I'm so jaded by sysrammer · · Score: 1

      I find your views interesting, and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

      --
      His ignorance covered the whole earth like a blanket, and there was hardly a hole in it anywhere. - Mark Twain
  14. Re:Obama is a traitor by Bartles · · Score: 1

    But they are required to at least implement the law. They take an oath that it be faithfully executed.

  15. Re:While we're all bemoaning wretched Guantanamo by Bartles · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Because Cuba is 60 miles from the United States.

  16. Re:Obama is a traitor by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

    But they are required to at least implement the law. They take an oath that it be faithfully executed.

    What makes you think that Obama haven't faithfully executed his oath?

  17. Re:Obama is a traitor by mcl630 · · Score: 1

    Please look up the definition of treason. Even if what you said were true (it's not), that's not treason.

  18. A or an? by Hentes · · Score: 1

    "This is a historic visit," Obama said as he greeted U.S. Embassy staff and their families at a Havana hotel. "It's an historic opportunity to engage with the Cuban people."

    I'm happy I'm not the only one who has no idea which one is correct.

    1. Re:A or an? by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      That's an silly assertion.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
  19. Re:A suggestion for the return trip... by sysrammer · · Score: 1

    I know, right? And make Elian row.

    --
    His ignorance covered the whole earth like a blanket, and there was hardly a hole in it anywhere. - Mark Twain
  20. Re:Obama is a traitor by Bartles · · Score: 1

    And this is one of many reasons why Obama is a liar and a failure.

    Obama on signing statements

  21. It took way too long to end the CE hypocrisy. by istartedi · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It took way too long for this to happen. Back when we gave China MFN status, what, early 90s? I was already complaining about the hypocrisy. The rationale was that by engaging with China we would eventually transfer our ideas as well as our goods. The theory behind this was called "Constructive Engagement".

    But if CE was really the proper way to deal with these regimes, what about Cuba? It never really worked anyway. CE was just justification--it was all about the money, and earlier it was about playing China against the USSR. It was hypocritical on its face, right from the start.

    I've literally been complaining about this since before some of you were born. Sheesh! Look, I get it. Castro stole your stuff, and you're mad; but most of the people who directly lost are dead. Aside from that, conquest happens. It's how America was built. At some point you have to write that off.

    Don't get me wrong. Communism sucks. It's an evil little anachronism that exists down there; but our way of dealing with it didn't work. Time to try something different... finally!

    --
    For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
    1. Re:It took way too long to end the CE hypocrisy. by Solandri · · Score: 1

      Meh, seems pretty simple to me. Lots of people argued about which strategy was better but nobody could really prove it one way or the other. So we tried the "trade and seduce them with capitalism" method with China, and the "boycott and try to starve them into changing" method with Cuba. The China method seems to work better, so now we're going to use that method on Cuba.

      It's not hypocritical at all to try different methods if you aren't sure which will work best. The real problem is that in order to save face, politics often dictates that you pretend you know exactly what you're doing when you really don't.

  22. Re:Obama is a traitor by DaHat · · Score: 1

    In his defense, he can accurately say he has not issued that many 'executive orders'... by issuing 'executive memoranda' instead: http://www.usatoday.com/story/...

  23. Re: Obama is a traitor by hackwrench · · Score: 1

    The only thing the oath states will be faithfully executed is the Office of the President of the United States. It uses different language when referring to the Constitution and mentions no other laws.

  24. Re:Obama is a traitor by phantomfive · · Score: 1

    A president needs to have room to make peace with our enemies. That's one of his jobs.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  25. Re:While we're all bemoaning wretched Guantanamo by iggymanz · · Score: 3, Insightful

    and Mexico is zero miles and have horrific prison conditions and has government complicit in religious discrimination against non-catholic groups, and we do a third of a trillion dollars in trade with them. Do you even have a point?

  26. directly by cascadingstylesheet · · Score: 1

    "looking forward to meeting and hearing directly from the Cuban people."

    He can't be that stupid. Can he?

    He's going to hear from a carefully selected Potemkin village of people who fear for their lives and freedom if they say anything less than glowing things about life in Cuba.

    1. Re:directly by Notorious+G · · Score: 1

      "looking forward to meeting and hearing directly from the Cuban people."

      He can't be that stupid. Can he?

      He's going to hear from a carefully selected Potemkin village of people who fear for their lives and freedom if they say anything less than glowing things about life in Cuba.

      He's not that stupid, he knows damn well this will be the case. He is, however, that ideologically driven. The image matters way more than the truth.

  27. Holey Commie Batman by SumterLiving · · Score: 1

    The POTUS is trying to make peace and normalize a relationship that has been adversarial for 80 years. I suppose the best business advice I could offer Obama is stop trying to make more customers for US businesses. The more customers our economy has the more taxes will go up and the more the world will hate us and nuclear war is assured. The devil will take over our souls and homosexuals will ruin our lives. Not to mention all the friendly commies will convert our children into the red menace that will result in mass abortions on gun owners. It's so scary about the only person who can stop the chain-reaction of zombie doom is Trump or Cruz or whoever the GOP decides should rule the earth. The return of FUD GOP-style has been magnificent to watch. Comedians will be the only true entertainment when Trump get elected.

  28. Re:Obama is a traitor by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

    The last president that was the target of impeachment was a Democrat.

    --
    The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
  29. Re: Obama is a traitor by Type44Q · · Score: 1

    Room for what? (Cuba's got at least ninety miles of water on all sides...)

  30. Re: Obama is a traitor by phantomfive · · Score: 1

    (Cuba's got at least ninety miles of water on all sides...)

    A statement that is both factually true and utterly irrelevant.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  31. Re: Obama is a traitor by Type44Q · · Score: 1

    I have no problem believing he's got ties to radical Islam... but if he does, it's probablt not the "retard version" where he's some sort of camel-fucking Muslim sleeper agent (fucking illiterate evangelicals will believe anything)...

  32. Re:Obama is a traitor by cold+fjord · · Score: 1

    The last president to be impeached was Clinton, a Democrat. There were Democrats circulating articles of impeachment against President G.W. Bush.

    --
    much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
  33. Re:While we're all bemoaning wretched Guantanamo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    and Mexico is zero miles and have horrific prison conditions and has government complicit in religious discrimination against non-catholic groups, and we do a third of a trillion dollars in trade with them. Do you even have a point?

    That's why we are going to build a wall! *duck*

  34. Re:Obama is a traitor by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

    Aww, whose...

    *facepalm*

    --
    Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
  35. Re:Sence when this turned into the Druge report? by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

    Since when are you forced to read stories you're not interested in?

    --
    Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
  36. Re:Obama is a traitor by dwillden · · Score: 1

    Sorry, not even close.

    I strongly dislike him and his politics as well. But choosing how to enforce the laws is not Treason. It may be dereliction of duty. But it's not aiding and abetting the enemy in time of war. He is not a traitor. He's a scum sucking marxist-liberal who has a vision of America that will lead to it's destruction, but that is his right, and he's managed to convince many others that such a route is the best way to go. And he would likely have the opinion that I am a scum sucking right-wing nutbag who has a vision of America that will lead to it's destruction, as is my right. That we disagree is not treason, or even criminal.

    Bradley Manning, Snowden, the Rosenbergs, Bowe Bergdahl, Adam Gadahn. Those are individuals whose acts are treasonous as per the actual definition of the crime.

    We need to re-learn how to disagree with someone and their political views without needing to demonize them and accuse them of high crimes without any actual basis for those claims.

    --
    I'm too lazy to compose a creative sig.
  37. Re:Obama is a traitor by dywolf · · Score: 1

    How does any sane person not see that?

    Probably has something to do with his deporting more people than the previous 3 presidents combined, and net immigration from Mexico being not just 0, but negative. IE, they're going back (btw, didn't Romney have a dream about that?).

    --
    The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
  38. Re:Obama is a traitor by dywolf · · Score: 1

    we're talking about Obama, not Bush.

    --
    The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
  39. Re:While we're all bemoaning wretched Guantanamo by argStyopa · · Score: 1

    Oh I fully agree with you about both the Saudis, and the Chinese (and a host of others, frankly).

    My point was just that he happens to be GOING to Cuba, and I fully expect that Guantanamo will be discussed in the media - while there's some irony that 400 miles away is the Canaleta prison.

    --
    -Styopa
  40. Re:While we're all bemoaning wretched Guantanamo by dywolf · · Score: 1

    ask and ye shall receive!
    http://www.politico.com/story/...

    --
    The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
  41. Re:Obama is a traitor by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

    We need to re-learn how to disagree with someone and their political views without needing to demonize them and accuse them of high crimes without any actual basis for those claims.

    As someone who likely disagrees with you on many political points, I wholeheartedly agree on this. Unfortunately, as much as I love taking the optimistic route, I think things are going to get even worse (more partisan fighting, less cooperation and compromise) before they get better. I really hope I'm wrong, though.

    --
    My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
  42. Re:Are you really so ignorant you need citations? by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

    The list of Obama lawlessness would take a megabyte of typed text at a minimum.

    What you described is the grey area between Congress making the law and POTUS implementing the law. But that's not lawlessness. If it was, Congress would have impeached and removed Obama from office already. And Bush II, Clinton I, Bush I, Reagan, Carter, Ford, Nixon, etc.

  43. Re:Obama is a traitor by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 1

    The way things are going, I expect whichever party wins, the other party will talk about impeaching him/her. Unless Trump wins. Then both parties will talk about impeachment.

    --
    Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
  44. Re:Obama is a traitor by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

    This is part of the physiological tools Govts use to condition the peasants.

    Physiological is the body. Psychological is the mind. You probably meant latter instead of the former. Based on the rest of your rambling comment, you also don't know how the government works.

  45. The tweet by operagost · · Score: 1

    Obama said in his tweet that he looked forward to hearing directly from the Cuban people.

    Unfortunately, most of the people who wanted to speak with him were arrested Sunday night.

    --

    Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
  46. A unique chance - or another brain drain? by FreedomFirstThenPeac · · Score: 1

    Here's a bit of a gedankenexperiment. How about if we open the borders to emigration? But with a twist.

    For every Cuban who applies to escape the island, Cuba has to find an American who wants to live in the workers paradise. Cuba would get dedicated socialists who would (at least for a while) not complain about the conditions. Free medical, etc. for the taking. And they probably would owe lots of student loans, forgiving those might be the price the US pays (re-instate the loan if the immigrant returns to US).

    Cuba would have to forgive the Cuban outbound emigrants their debts to the Cuban society that raised them (a common argument socialist governments give when asked why their borders are closed to emigration).

    Allow free tourism between the two countries, anyone who overstays their visa would trigger an opening for someone going the other way.

    The US would want to screen potential Cuban immigrants, no repeat of the Mariel boat lift.

    Run this as a friendly cooperative experiment - we both might learn something.

    --
    "There is no god but allah" - well, they got it half right.