Slashdot Mirror


Sony's More Powerful PS4 To Be Announced Before PlayStation VR Launch (polygon.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report on Polygon about Sony's alleged PlayStation 4K, which Kotaku reported about earlier: Sony's more powerful version of the PlayStation 4 -- also known as the "PlayStation 4.5" and "PlayStation 4K" -- is expected to be announced prior to the launch of PlayStation VR this October, according to a new report from the Wall Street Journal (paywall link). The upgraded PS4 will reportedly be able to play 4K resolution content, according to the report, and deliver "a richer gaming environment, including a high-end virtual-reality experience."

67 comments

  1. YAY! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    At least now we're admitting to duplicate postings up front now. An improvement... /s

    What's worse... this isn't even an announcement. It's speculation about an announcement.

    Correction to article: "a richer gaming environment, including a high-end price."

    1. Re:YAY! by jfdavis668 · · Score: 1

      An anonymous reader quotes a report on Slashdot.org about Sony's alleged PlayStation 4K.

  2. what by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    the first PS4 wasn't 4K ready? I thought that was one of the things it was big hyped for?

    1. Re:what by Tukz · · Score: 2

      Only at 30FPS and it only have HDMI 1.4a.

      The new one will have HDMI 2.0.

      And also presumerably HDCP 2.2.
      At least, _I_ assume it does. Would be weird not to include HDCP 2.2.

      --
      - Don't do what I do, it's probably not healthy nor safe. -
    2. Re:what by RavenLrD20k · · Score: 2

      The PS4 is 4K ready...for videos (note the last edit date on article). The 4.5 is supposed to enable the support for games as well. I have to wonder though; did it really require new hardware, or could Sony have unlocked the 4K Gaming capability through a firmware patch? Knowing Sony's track record, I seriously think they're going with the hardware fix only because it will drive more sales of the unit...where a simple OTA update probably would have sufficed. This question probably won't be answered without seeing the proposed hardware differences.

    3. Re:what by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      I expect they would need to upgrade their video card a bit. 4k Video vs 4k gaming is rather different in terms of hardware needs.
      Video can be buffered, compressed for optimal performance. Video Games being dynamic and real time, not so much time to buffer display.

      I am sure a firmware patch could be used to enable it, and I expect you may see improvements in many games, but their may be a few that you will see problems because it would require some additional resources.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    4. Re:what by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The PS4 can barely do 1080p 30fps with most games, and you think there's some hidden firmware patch that's going to unlock the ability to do 4k gaming?

    5. Re:what by EvilSS · · Score: 1

      The PS4 is 4K ready...for videos (note the last edit date on article). The 4.5 is supposed to enable the support for games as well. I have to wonder though; did it really require new hardware, or could Sony have unlocked the 4K Gaming capability through a firmware patch? Knowing Sony's track record, I seriously think they're going with the hardware fix only because it will drive more sales of the unit...where a simple OTA update probably would have sufficed. This question probably won't be answered without seeing the proposed hardware differences.

      There is exactly 0 chance this won't require a massive hardware upgrade if they are going to do 4K gaming. Unlike previous generations, this console is x86 (OK x64 but you get the point) based and we know what the APU they used is capable of, or at least we have a very good idea of it's possible range. We also know from PC gaming what it takes to do 4K gaming and the gap between those two bits of knowledge is not insignificant. So unless they plan for a 10-15fps 4K experience (and I'm probably being generous there) it's going to require new hardware. Even then, unless AMD has made some recent breakthrough or has gone into the charity business, I can't see them doing 4K gaming and keeping their current price point. Yes, discounts for volume and all that, but chips powerful enough to do what they want are not free to manufacture, and they are only one component in the overall cost of the unit. Sony would need to take a massive hit, selling the PS4.5 well below their costs to keep it at $400.

      Also keep in mind Sony probably wants to do 4K UHD blu-ray playback, since it's Sony and they own a chunk of the BD spec. That will probably take new hardware as well for the drive and HDMI port (although it's possible they could flash the port, they did some crazy flash only upgrades on the PS3 due to their use of programmable hardware where most devices use dedicated chips).

      --
      I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
    6. Re:what by Blaskowicz · · Score: 1

      Video games can be upscaled to 4K. Expect 900p games upscaled to 2160p instead of 1080p.

    7. Re:what by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      HDCP 2.2 requires new hardware encryption chips.4k@60fps will almost certainly require hdcp2.2 support.

    8. Re:what by U2xhc2hkb3QgU3Vja3M · · Score: 2

      My old PC had a "Turbo" button, doesn't the PS4 have something similar?

    9. Re:what by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're confusing 4K content with 4K monitors.

      The HDMI 1.4 spec only allows 30fps 4K, so you can connect a 4K monitor via HDMI, you won't get the experience a 4K game should have.

      You can play 4K video on a PS4 (AFAIK), because most 4K content is h.264 and it doesn't really put any more stress on a CPU+GPU to do 4K playback. However a game that "supports 4K" doesn't have the necessary processing power (the highest end video cards in PC's still don't at 60fps) in a PS4 the GPU is equal to a mid-tier PC video card (150$) The Xbox One video card is closer to a 99$ video card.

      So both the PS4 and Xbox One need a GPU boost to do 4K or to do VR (The requirements for both is essentially the top-of-the-line video card at 800$), but what we're really going to get is VR at half-HD resolution for the PS4 (960x1080 per eye at 120hz), and slightly higher resolution for the Occulus Rift at a lower refresh rate (1080x1200x90hz) because this is literately the maximum that can be pushed by a single GPU without having independent video cards for each eye.

      So I largely expect the first generation VR content is going to be a very poor experience. So if you already own a PS4, don't bother upgrading to a PS4.5 unless the VR or the 4K features are what you're into. For most people this is a half step and I'm willing to forgo the VR lame-duck race like I ignored the "3D TV" craze. It's going to fall flat.

      The "3D film" and "VR content" people need to come together and standardize on a "immersive" content experience where the "3D film" people need need to re-think "3D-VR" interactivity, and the "VR content" people need to decide what limits won't make users sick. The VR hardware vendors need make sure that their hardware isn't "overdrive'd" by either content that would result in motion sickness or seizures from the higher framerate.

      Right now we haven't heard anything from the film industry about how they are going to support VR, and likewise with the 3D TV's were being pushed without support from the games industry. The ability to do do "shutter glasses" has been around since the 8-bit consoles (Sega Master System) and early 3DFX/TNT2 cards in 1999. However it, never caught on, and the shutter glasses of the time required CRT monitors.

      So we are seeing a complete retread of these original shutter-glasses attempts.

    10. Re:what by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 1

      Note that the turbo button was used to downclock the CPU, not boost it.

      --
      Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
  3. The nice thing about consoles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Is that you never have to worry about upgrading them and you know that everyone has exactly the same version of the hardware.
    You also know that every game will always work on your console.

    1. Re:The nice thing about consoles by EvilSS · · Score: 0

      Is that you never had to worry about upgrading them and you knew that everyone has exactly the same version of the hardware. You also knew that every game would always work on your console.

      FTFY

      --
      I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
    2. Re:The nice thing about consoles by RavenLrD20k · · Score: 1

      You may have heard a very loud wooshing sound just now. No...that was not a ram-jet or scream-jet plane overhead.

    3. Re:The nice thing about consoles by EvilSS · · Score: 2

      Pretty sure that was just the toilet on the 2nd floor.

      --
      I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
    4. Re:The nice thing about consoles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey everybody. Sony will be upgrading the PS4 in October. Whatever you do, don't buy one until then AT LEAST.

      If this is Sony's plan, then they are one dumb bunch of fuckheads.

    5. Re: The nice thing about consoles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Same time they are saying, dont buy Xbox one also.

    6. Re:The nice thing about consoles by U2xhc2hkb3QgU3Vja3M · · Score: 1

      So when someone tells you "that's a load of crap", you know exactly what it sounds like.

    7. Re:The nice thing about consoles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ouch.

  4. Hurts idea of existing install base? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Creating a more powerful inter-rim console just seems wasteful. Developers will have to aim for one of them and that's going to be the original model.

    1. Re:Hurts idea of existing install base? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Any VR game capable of running at 90 FPS on a PS4 is going to look like wolfenstein. The PS4.5 versions will just add a few more textures.

    2. Re:Hurts idea of existing install base? by EvilSS · · Score: 1

      Creating a more powerful inter-rim console just seems wasteful. Developers will have to aim for one of them and that's going to be the original model.

      I imagine Sony will mandate both as part of the certification process for new games. Really it won't be much different than offering different graphics settings on their PC versions, but limited to two possibilities instead of a huge range. PS4, use these graphics settings. PS4.5, use these. Medium vs High. The big issue may be with multiplayer where greater FPS could give an advantage to the players on the 4.5. They may need to lock the framerate, which would cause grumbling of its own.

      --
      I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
  5. Stupid Nintendo. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Only a company as stupid as Nintendo would be foolish enough to release a hardware revision midway through a console's lifespan that upgrades core specifications, causing fragmentation amongst its userbase. Sony would never do that with PlayStation.

    1. Re:Stupid Nintendo. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Only a company as stupid as Microsoft would force paid subscriptions for online play capability while forcing backwards compatibility onto the cloud in order to make its user base pay twice for games they already own or games whose devs are mostly dead by this point. Sony would never do such a thing with PlayStation, PlayStation is the Freedom station, free online and hardware based backwards compatibility FOREVER!!!!111!!!1!!!
      .
      .
      .
      uuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

    2. Re:Stupid Nintendo. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That would be more of a 90's SEGA move than a Nintendo move (see Sega CD, Sega CD v2, 32x). NES2 and SNES2 had the same specifications in a smaller, cheaper package that played the same games. Gamecube's only revisions were in the exterior color. Wii U is a new console entirely with a recycled name.

      The closest Nintendo came to doing this in the US was the N64 RAM expansion pack, which predictably had little adoption among consumers. And 64DD which never came out in the US.

    3. Re: Stupid Nintendo. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Rambus RAM was also very expensive!! It was understandable given its use with a MIPS based processor. But had it been a different architecture that used a standard SODIMM, it would have been vastly cheaper on ecconomies of scale. Besides, the RAM pak was just for higher res textures.

    4. Re:Stupid Nintendo. by Blaskowicz · · Score: 1

      Wii really is a Gamecube if you look at it closely. Same hardware with more RAM, but all new controller, design, name etc.

      It's the one successful upgraded console out there, but it wasn't marketed as an upgraded console and the specs weren't pushed as a selling point either. The Game Cube controller ports are even hidden so that I didn't know they were there till I saw someone use them.

      There are upgraded consoles in the handheld market, further blurred by backwards compatiblity. Have been since the Game Boy Color. For some reasons it isn't such a big deal there.

    5. Re: Stupid Nintendo. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      RAM pak or not the N64 had an extremely small texture cache in the GPU, which is said to be a reason for so many icon-sized textures used in games.
      The one high profile game for the RAM expansion was Perfect Dark : I tried to push the console too much and was too slow, which ruined it for me. Here the CPU may be to blame. By then, some PC games ran at 60 fps or at least > 30 fps on mediocre hardware.

      Maybe the second Zelda game used the RAM, but it made you replay it again and again, interrupting you with cutscenes, a mini-quest where you have to chase school kids and a pedophile gnome that likes maps. I never reached the first save point. Another game for the younger brothers and kids.
      So I found the N64's end of life lackluster.

  6. "4K"....sorta....kinda....not really by NotDrWho · · Score: 1

    My $600 graphics card can barely handle 4K. And they're going to do it in a $400 console. Sure.

    Does anyone really believe this will be anything but a glorified 1080p upscaler?

    --
    SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
    1. Re:"4K"....sorta....kinda....not really by eumoria · · Score: 1

      It'll be 4k upscaler and maybe they can do 4k blu ray playback. This will NOT be a proper 4k gaming experience most modern PC gaming rigs struggle with 4k at a decent framerate.

    2. Re:"4K"....sorta....kinda....not really by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, a lot of it depends on optimization of the game code. Assuming Sony is willing to oversee which games can achieve 4K properly, and clearly label them as such, the game devs then have significant motivation to code well, rather than just release bloatware that runs at a quarter (or less) the actual possible speed. Console games are really no different than PC games at this point, in terms of their extreme variation in quality and performance. It's easy to find console games that look like crap, or have huge fps bottlenecks *(F04, anyone? anyone?), and rare to find properly-optimized games that actually utilize hardware to nearly full potential (PD does a great job of creating content for Sony that looks at least half-a-generation ahead of most other titles on the PS.)

    3. Re:"4K"....sorta....kinda....not really by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Either your graphics card is 5 years old, or you over-payed massively.

    4. Re:"4K"....sorta....kinda....not really by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      My $600 graphics card can barely handle 4K. And they're going to do it in a $400 console. Sure.

      Does anyone really believe this will be anything but a glorified 1080p upscaler?

      Well, look at the wording. "Play 4K resolution content". No where does it say it can play video games in 4K, but it can play 4K content. Streaming or likely, 4K UHD Blu-Rays (which require drive capable of reading UHD BDs). And adding PSVR support into it.

      Plus, it's not necessarily $400. Sony may very well keep the PS4 at $400 and release the PS4K at $600 or $700 or more.

      Though it's more likely they're adding UHD support than anything since that won't interfere with games and piss off a good chunk of the existing PS4 user base. Nintendo's tried with their "New 3DS" thing and they've only got one game out of it.

    5. Re:"4K"....sorta....kinda....not really by FlyHelicopters · · Score: 2

      Either your graphics card is 5 years old, or you over-payed massively.

      A GeForce GTX 980 TI can play Grand Theft Auto V at 4k at about 30 fps at 4k with all the detail turned up.

      Even at medium detail, it struggles to hold an average of 60 fps with many dips down to ~40 fps.

      And yes, that is a current $600+ video card.

    6. Re:"4K"....sorta....kinda....not really by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you really believe anyone ACTUALLY cares? as if a real actual 4k would sell any better.

      it's new. it's from sony. dudebro gamedrones WILL buy it.
      it's purpose is complete.

  7. Read: You're going to need it for PSVR by EvilSS · · Score: 1

    Sure you might be able to use PS VR with the current gen PS4 but I would put money on them pushing this hard for a decent experience. In the mean time I'm going to Japan to open a pitchforks and torches vending business. I have a feeling it's going to be very profitable very soon.

    --
    I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
    1. Re:Read: You're going to need it for PSVR by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      2 x 1080p 4K

      Sony PS4K will probably support native 4k menus/load screen, UHD (4k video content, at least by streaming, possibly UHD Blu-Ray as well), native 4k 2d gaming, 4k upscaling of 1080p/720p video or gaming, and 2 x 1080p or 2 x 720p VR (probably just the latter).

    2. Re:Read: You're going to need it for PSVR by halfEvilTech · · Score: 0

      Incorrect, 4k resolutions is 4x that of 1080p not twice.

      resolution of 3840x2160 is not twice that of 1920x1080

    3. Re:Read: You're going to need it for PSVR by TypoNAM · · Score: 1

      I see where he's coming from based on his confusion:
      [1920, 1080] * 2 = [3840, 2160], or written as:
      [1920, 1080] * [2, 2] = [3840, 2160]

      3840x2160 is four times the resolution (or size) of 1920x1080 because two dimensions are being multiplied by two, not jut one and so he's not taking into account the other dimension.

      --
      This space is not for rent.
    4. Re:Read: You're going to need it for PSVR by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Image resolution is a one dimensional property.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_resolution

      Yes, an image with twice the resolution needs 4x the number of pixels for sampling without information loss, but it can only resolve objects of 1/2 the size (not 1/4 the size).

       

  8. If this happens, they better offer a trade-up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If they don't offer a trade-up, many current PS4 owners are going to be angry. People expect their console to be good for a whole console generation, not half of one.

    1. Re:If this happens, they better offer a trade-up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have no need of a improved ps4 I could use a game that will get me to turn the unit on for the first time in 4 months would be nice ahem GT 7

    2. Re: If this happens, they better offer a trade-up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's called Game Stop.

    3. Re: If this happens, they better offer a trade-up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What I am thinking is that next year I will be able to justify buying one of the "old" PS4 consoles at a rock bottom price.

    4. Re:If this happens, they better offer a trade-up by FlyHelicopters · · Score: 1

      A trade up isn't going to be enough... If new games stop working on my existing PS4 half way through a generation, then this will be my last PlayStation...

      Sony can do what they want, but I expect 10 years of use out of a console these days. The PS3 did that, it still serves us well upstairs, because there was never a PS 3.5.

      If they want to come out with a PS5, that's fine, but this is much too early.

    5. Re: If this happens, they better offer a trade-up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You will get your 10 years out of ps4, dont worry. Game makers are already now able to support multiple specs on PC world, why not in console world?

    6. Re:If this happens, they better offer a trade-up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're going to buy it anyway. You know you are.

      or really since you're starting to sound old. your kids will want it and then you'll buy it.

  9. PlayStation 32X by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sony have really lost their way.

  10. But does it even PowerPoint? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Cos one page per second will be the new cinematic experience at 4k...

  11. Trade in / upgrade program by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's cool as long as they have a trade in program for existing PS4 owners.

    1. Re: Trade in / upgrade program by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can't wait for my under $150 "old" PS4 next year. Sucks to buy one early.

      I still enjoy my Gameboy Advance SP, and PlayStation 1.

  12. You new buyers can thank me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I finally caved and bought a PS4 in January.

  13. I'm sure it'll legitimately be 4k by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 1

    By that I mean that the GPU will be able to create a 4k framebuffer and render at 4k if it likes, and the outputs will be filly 4k capable.

    However you are correct that it'll be seriously lacking in power. so as a practical matter, 99%+ of games will be rendered at a lower resolution and then upscaled. This is actually already the case to some extent. Many games cannot run at 1080 and hit their framerate target on the hardware today, so they are rendered at a lower resolution internally. For example Battlefield 4 has a 60 fps target since it is a shooter. To hit that it renders at 1600x900 on the PS4, and 1280x720 on the XBone. Watch Dogs is even more intense and so renders at those same resolutions, but only has a 30fps target.

    So in some cases developers may elect to use more simple geometry/textures and thus will be able to make the new unit render at 4k natively, but most likely they'll elect not to. The trend seems to be to prefer higher detail games and sacrifice resolution and/or fps as necessary to hit that.

  14. Why skip 1440p? by lexman098 · · Score: 2

    Hopefully the 4k playstation will be able to output in 1440p instead. My TV does 4k at 30Hz or 1440p at 72Hz (HDMI 1.4), and my graphics card (yes reasonably priced) can more or less drive those 2 options just fine. Guess which option I prefer to play games with.

    1. Re:Why skip 1440p? by U2xhc2hkb3QgU3Vja3M · · Score: 1

      My TV does 4k at 30Hz or 1440p at 72Hz (HDMI 1.4) ... Guess which option I prefer to play games with.

      480p at 216Hz?

    2. Re:Why skip 1440p? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1080p @ 60 would be a nice improvement over a lot of current console games, honestly.

    3. Re:Why skip 1440p? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It won't. Consoles are designed for TVs. 1440p is not a TV resolution. We don't care what hardware you want to play games on. You're just another self-obsessed master-race loser, that thinks how much you spend on a video card enhances your worth. It doesn't.

  15. More likely the "4K" PS4 will be like late PS2s by CronoCloud · · Score: 3, Informative

    These "rumor based" articles are stupid. The media outlets should know better, especially given Sony's history with PSfoo hardware.

    More likely this "4K" PS4 will be like the later model PS2's that could do progressive scan (early models couldn't), or the later model PS3's that can bitstream a couple more high quality surround audio formats., with ZERO changes to the gaming capabilities.

    So I'm figuring what we'll see is a PS4 Slim that supports 4K blu-rays and nothing more.

    1. Re:More likely the "4K" PS4 will be like late PS2s by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is probably Sony trying to push the latest bluray. To support proper 4k gaming at the fidelity levels they are talking about they would have to significantly beef up the GPU and CPU. Thats not going to happen without a decent 200-300 price bump.

      So they are going to put in just enough to support the latest 4k bluray. That will be about it.

    2. Re:More likely the "4K" PS4 will be like late PS2s by phorm · · Score: 1

      "they would have to significantly beef up the GPU and CPU"

      Well, the PS4 has been around for 2.5 years. While CPU/GPU technology hasn't had any huge changes in the last few years, more powerful hardware should be available at a better price. If they go with a comparative level of newer hardware they'll still get a nice boost without a huge additional cost. There will be some offset since the current hardware is semi-custom, but there's also a cost-savings for bulk orders.
      The current kit is a 1.6Mhz Octa-Core Jaguar CPU with GCN Radeon graphics, so they could bump up to Puma or perhaps even something a bit more on the edge. Now granted Puma seems to be more of an improvement in efficiency than raw power, but that might allow a bump in the clock speed as well.

  16. great, but will it... by dAzED1 · · Score: 1

    Great, but will it ever come with anything that will ever use the Eye? I feel like that thing should be a class-action lawsuit, almost (yes, I was one of the original purchasers who bought a bundle that came with an Eye)

  17. This has nothing to do with 4k by Kartu · · Score: 1

    PS VR that they are releasing soon will benefit from 90+ FPS (it can go as far as 120Hz, Oculus only does 90)
    4.5 games will run on older PS4, but with lower FPS.
    All in all, it's about VR.

    The interesting part is, exactly HOW they are boosting current PS4 hardware, is it still 28nm process, or is AMD far enough with 14/16nm. AMD recently demonstrated Polaris based low range (960 levels) GPU with very impressive perf/ration (at least two times better than 960).

  18. So by what margin does this shit crippled pc by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    but name fail to perform compared to my current pc?

  19. A poke in the eye to Microsoft... by Lumpy · · Score: 1

    Thank you Sony! I really hope they put out ad's making fun of the Xbox One and how it cant do full 1080p let alone 4K.

    Microsoft loves sitting in their asses and doing as little as possible on the Xbox line, I really hope sony forces them to start making better hardware and faster releases of updates with more power.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  20. i Dont Know About This by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All of this speculation stems from one article on Kotaku where they said they talked to someone with insider knowledge. Releasing a half step console right now would not make any sense for many reasons. I say that this is an April fools thing and even if its true it wouldnt be a new generation. At most it might come with a smaller node APU to save power, and be slim with maybe a 4k blu ray player for those that dont want a playstation for AND a 4k blu ray player