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PayPal Pulls North Carolina Plan After Transgender Bathroom Law (reuters.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Reuters: PayPal Holdings Inc on Tuesday canceled plans to open a global operations center in Charlotte, North Carolina and invest $3.6 million in the area after the state passed a controversial law targeting lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) citizens. In a letter on March 29, founders and chief executives of more than a hundred companies, including Apple Inc, Twitter Inc, and Alphabet Inc urged North Carolina Governor Pat McCrory to repeal the legislation.
PayPal is one of the first companies to protest the controversial measure requiring people to use bathrooms or locker rooms in schools and other public facilities that match the gender on their birth certificate rather than their gender identity. "The new law perpetuates discrimination and it violates the values and principles that are at the core of PayPal's mission and culture," Chief Executive Officer Dan Schulman said in a statement. PayPal's original plan was to open the operations center in Charlotte and employ 400 skilled workers there.
Are they going question every one of their customers and make sure their values aligned with PayPal's and seize their funds if not?
I see how the law is targeting transgender people, but how the law is targeting lesbian, gay or bisexual people?
for those who think this isnt an egregious concern for the state of North Carolina, they very much do have a lot to lose.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
The Research Triangle Park (RTP) is one of the largest research parks in the world, but its been largely a pearl in an otherwise very salty oyster. Its home to Cisco, Redhat, Microsoft, and NetApp among others. Governors and statesmen are wrecklessly gambling with this research park in the hopes that pandering to ten million North Carolinians with rhetoric from the culture war is a sustainable or responsible approach to governing their state.
PayPal has made it very clear: there are 49 other states that will gladly accept our proposition to employ hundreds of high skilled knowledge workers. Your tax incentives are by no means exclusive to the state.
Good people go to bed earlier.
See one problem is the law says gender AT BIRTH. Which means it doesn't matter if you've had the surgery. Alternately, have you seen the photos that some trans men have posted--bodybuilders, with no way you could guess from appearance that they were born any different? Yeah, by this law, they have to use the ladies' room.
If people obey this law, it's going to massively RAISE the number of people who don't look like they belong in the restroom they're in.
I have to imagine that some politicians are doing a little nervous sweating about this, given that passing red-meat "values" legislation is supposed to be an easy, low-cost, way to score some points with Team Jesus; not something that might get the local chamber of commerce pissed off at you. Oh well. Time to see how much they value those values, I suppose.
If you have a penis, use the boys room. If you don't you'll make everyone else in the womens room uncomfortable.
there are many people with a penis that would look entirely inappropriate in a boys room.
What if some regular schmuck decides for the lulz to dress up as a women for a day and go all perv in womens room?
then hes committed a number of already existing criminal infractions such as disorderly conduct or sexual assault at worst. men already do this. this law wont fix the problem
At this point why not make all restrooms communal or unisex?
Here in West Hollywood, we kinda did. instead of passing a law that stated gender normative restrooms had to be enforced we did the opposite. we made a law that states all restrooms have to be accessible by both genders. Some smaller bars and restaraunts just made both their restrooms locking unisex. Larger night clubs and hotels converted to an architectural model that provides a fully closed rack of stalls, and around a corner enclosed urinals with privacy partitions.
Good people go to bed earlier.
Sorry, AC... Gender is not defined by your thoughts.
Isn't it? I thought the point of the modern concept of 'gender' was to distinguish what exists at the level of narrative, from 'sex' which exists biologically? Gender is defined by words (mind), sex by chromosomes (matter). Or?
Better to be despised for too anxious apprehensions, than ruined by too confident a security. --Edmund Burke
In general terms they rely on the courts to overturn the laws. Then they can go to the bigots that form their base and say "We tried to help Jesus, but those pinko Liberal activist judges interfered!" There'll be a whole lot of whining about activist courts, how none of the Founding Fathers wore dresses, how "family values" are being destroyed, as the bigots donate money to their re-election campaign.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
People need to remove the LGB from this discussion because there is nothing about Gay, Lesbian, or Bisexuals in the debate. Except that for positioning people conveniently lump those other groups into the lot. Here is your trigger warning, either go away or hold that rage for a minute. This is about people who dress like the opposite sex. The reasons for dressing like the opposite sex are varied, and can be perverse as well as due to any type of identity condition.
So you are a parent, do you mind if the older principle goes into the boys bathroom to check out the young penis? Prove it's not because she wants to be a man. If you are a parent, do you mind the janitor going into the girls bathroom to check out the young ladies? Prove it's not because he wants to be a woman.
This blanket assumption that everyone is innocent and altruistic is a fantasy that people need to snap out of. The actual amount of transgender people demanding to use any restroom they want is extraordinarily tiny. Blackmailing companies to force them to do it the way .1% of the population wants it is not the way to succeed in society where the other 99.9% of the population does not agree.
People need to wake up to the amount of social engineering being forced down their throat and take action against it. If not, well, you can see how things turned out in other countries when the loonies started running the asylum.
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
The comments they make when I release the death fog is fucking hilarious. I don't care how big your dick is, lady. My alien acid shits will drive you out of the men's room FOREVER!!!!
Whose freedom is more important? The transgendered man who wants to use a woman's restroom or the women who don't want to share their restroom with a transgendered man? Who should prevail? You can't make one happy without making the others unhappy. This is the nature of politics. You have to decide and say "you get your way, and you, just deal with it."
The governor of NC chose to side with 51% of his state over probably 0.001% of his state. Sure, there are women who would agree with sharing the restroom. The governor can't know how many. All he probably knows is that he's likely never met a woman in his state except a few activists that like the idea. Therefore he is doing precisely what we ordinarily value which is letting the majority rule.
Stop bullshitting. It was done to ensure individual communities couldn't pass laws that prohibit discrimination. In other words, the Jesus-yokels in the state house said "We're looking at YOU, Raleigh, Charlotte, and especially you hippies in Asheville, and we don't like you getting all fag-friendly and whatnot."
The law also limits the definition of sex to the sex at birth, meaning that even if someone was a complete post-op transsexual, they're still considered be their original sex by the state.
You're as entitled to your opinion on this as anyone else, but at least have the balls to admit what the law really is, instead of all this double-talk about "different and contradictory laws" in different communities. What happened to that conservative maxim of keeping power out of the hands of central government and letting local communities decide what's best? Oh, that was hypocrisy? What a shock.
I've learned that they're worthless, so I don't read AC comments anymore.
Remember, this is the same company that excludes its users from commerce in legal but politically incorrect products & services.
https://www.paypal.com/ca/weba...
Nice try. You left out that whole bit about how the law "bans local jurisdictions from offering any LGBT protections beyond what the state does, which is "none". Cities had local laws saying, for example, you couldn't refuse to rent to a gay couple just because they were gay...those city laws are now struck from the books by state mandate." My thanks to Sowelu (713889) for articulating this.
I've learned that they're worthless, so I don't read AC comments anymore.
Unisex bathrooms.
And make them with closed stalls. So nobody will know which way the feet are pointing when they take a leak.
Have gnu, will travel.
As a citizen of North Carolina, I am grateful to Paypal for standing up to protect people from discrimination. As bad as the treatment of transgender folks is in this law, the real impact is much broader. This law removes the right of all citizens to access state courts to sue for employment or housing discrimination based on age, race, national origin, or sex. The Republicans are using the bathroom stuff as cover because they think a majority of voters don't identify with transgender people. But the real impact is to legalize all forms of discrimination in North Carolina.
"He took a duck in the face at 250 knots." -- William Gibson, Pattern Recognition
See one problem is the law says gender AT BIRTH.
Ever heard of 'born again'? Hallelujah! Praise the lawd!
Have gnu, will travel.
Dunno... let's ask them. 'cause women had little part in producing this cheap-ass, smoke-screen, dog-whistle law (women make up only 22% of the NC legislature, sponsors Dan Bishop and Paul Stam are men, and, of course, the governor is a dick). In fact, this law pre-empts a local Charlotte law that was passed by that city's elected officials... so it looks like all that GOP noise about respectin' the people's will is a load of shite when a state politician sees a tax-free chance to get himself some TV time and name-recognition.
Take it easy, Charlie, I've got an Angle...
Even if they don't, there are stalls in most bathrooms. I see this as an issue so minuscule, it is only worth political discussion.
When I started my transition in 1990, I would have never imagined such support and solidarity. Thank you Pay Pal.
https://www.youtube.com/c/BrendaEM
If the person identifies as male, and looks like a male, but is forced to use a women's restroom, it'll probably create more problems than just letting them use the gender bathroom they identify with.
Dictionaries are descriptive, not proscriptive, and beyond that, decades of research have shown gender and sexuality are fluid. Clearly you feel very threatened by someone not conforming to your views of sexuality, but that's really too bad. Just like racists half a century ago, you're just going to have to get with the times or become a member of an increasingly marginalized and impotent group of malcontents.
And really, how does any of this harm you? Are you have secret thoughts that are awakened by someone who has a different view of their gender? Do you need to protect your own gender identity by suppressing someone whose identity is different? What are you afraid of?
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
"Maybe according to the Newspeak Wordsbook of the SJW, but not according to a real dictionary"
Let's test that theory.
Dictionary.com says that gender is: "either the male or female division of a species, especially as differentiated by social and cultural roles and behavior" while sex is: "either the male or female division of a species, especially as differentiated with reference to the reproductive functions."
Let's try the Oxford English dictionary.
Gender: "The state of being male or female as expressed by social or cultural distinctions and differences, rather than biological ones; the collective attributes or traits associated with a particular sex, or determined as a result of one's sex. Also: a (male or female) group characterized in this way."
Sex: Either of the two main categories (male and female) into which humans and many other living things are divided on the basis of their reproductive functions.
All emphasis my own.
So, no. You're just wrong about this, and if you're going to pedantically claim that the dictionary supports you, you ought to be arsed to check your dictionary first. The dictionary supports the modern distinction of gender and sex.
Peeping toms have been around forever. This is no different than attacking gay men by somehow linking them to pedophiles.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
How many women do you think would want some dick next to them in the bathroom regardless of what's in their mind...
How many women considered that a problem before this law was passed? This law was designed to appeal to bigots, not address an actual problem.
Sex is not defined by chromosomes, it is defined by anatomy. There are women, who were born women, with vaginas and all, grew breasts at puberty, and have always identified and been identified by others as biologically female, who just happen to have XY chromosomes and a genetic insensitivity to the androgens that that Y chromosome produces, so they develop as female anyway.
It's rare, but it happens, and if you pin sex to chromosomes, you end up having to call such people male; and also say that most of the time we have no fucking idea what sex anybody is.
-Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of all Trades
"I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
And you don't think a judge can't tell the difference between a genuine transexual and a pervert?
Other posters are right. This is just cover for holding Jeebus up high and striking out at people that don't conform to your views. This is exactly how the "Family Values" types try to claim that all gay men are pedophiles. Now suddenly all transexuals are actually peeping toms who want to wear dresses.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
The law specifies DNA, but DNA doesn't specify sex. That part where the Bible says male and female he created them... turns out, wrong again Bible.
http://www.ted.com/talks/alice...
DNA absolutely specifies sex for the vast majority (around 99.9% last I looked) of the people out there. XY is male, XX is female. There are a few disorders (note: they are *disorders*) that may cause XX to be male or XY to be female (see that one WNBA player as an example), and there are also issues such as chimerism that can cause sexual ambiguity.
That has little or nothing to do with someone like Bruce Jenner wanting to use the women's room.
Do you have ESP?
Where aliens will be found, computers will be sentient, brains will be uploaded, and Linux will have a year on the desktop, all believed with the fervent faith of a religious nutter...
but the idea that gender identity is an innate function of the brain, which may not always develop to the identity dictated by chromosomes or genitalia, is just too damn mind blowing for them to handle, despite oodles of scientific evidence.
The same crime he was always convicted of.
Let's imagine for a moment a female sex predator sneaking a peak at young girls in a women's washroom, or a male sex predator doing the same in a men's washroom. Are you saying these individuals cannot be prosecuted because they have the right bits under their clothes?
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Wrong; the law removes the right of local governments to pass any anti-discrimination laws that are broader then the state.
The 'bathroom issue' is a smokescreen and a scare tactic used to hide the usual 'its okay to discriminate against gays because religious freedom' laws that are all the rage in the south these days.
As there are NO state laws protecting -- for instance -- employment or housing with regards to sexual orientation on the state level, and there were local laws, this explicitly removes those local protections.
So your wife has bought into the bullshit fear-mongering. Lucky you and lucky her.
That brings up my questions: 1) Which facility are people with Klinefelter syndrome (XXY) supposed to use? 2) Which facility are people born as hermaphrodites supposed to use?
Although both are rare, I'd suggest that gender isn't as binary as some simple-minded people choose to believe it is. There really is such a thing a "in between".
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
Yes indeed, thank you. Before gender as something separate from sex even gets involved, sex itself is already more complicated than two jointly exhaustive and mutually exclusive boxes.
In fact, the sociological concept of gender as something apart from sex was coined by John Money in 1950 specifically to address the way that intersex people in the middle of that spectrum of biological sex still get categorized into one of those two binary social gender categories.
In other words, it's the "MEN ARE MEN AND WOMEN ARE WOMEN DAMNIT!" people who have always been denying the complexities of biology and trying to force artificially simplified social categories onto people whose biology doesn't fit them.
And now that society is starting to acknowledge more complexity in its artificial, imaginary, socially-constructed categorization scheme, those same people are rebelling against that and trying to retreat to biology, ignorant of the fact that that biology has always been more complicated than they would like, and the social overlay on top of it is only just now catching up to it.
-Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of all Trades
"I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
You do realize that most of the South is going to pass these laws, right? And having locations in the South is much cheaper. So you're going to find that most corporations will just move from one state to another. Sorry, but that's corporations for you. Fine taking a stand until they have to lose money and explain it to the stockholders.
No they're not--or at least if they do, the laws won't last long. The laws are blatantly unconstitutional and there's a 90%+ chance they won't survive a challenge at the appellate level in a federal court anywhere in the country.
No one is talking about the baby changing station. Think about it. You're a guy. People already look at you funny if you're with your own child and the mother is elsewhere. Now you can't even use the baby changing station, because it's in the women's restroom.
Or maybe you can, after all, people understand right? Baby needs a new diaper. It's obvious. So you take a chance. You go in, and a nice lady inside smiles at you because she finds the image of a young father with a baby adorable. And so you're in there, changing the babies diaper, you come out and...
You're surrounded by cops, (or worse, Asset Protection.) Wait, what?
Onlookers, confused, and trying to fill in the missing data, assume the worst. Because it would be asinine (but correct) to assume it has to do with your chromosomes, they make more reasonable assumptions like, "he stole a baby," and "he's a peeping tom."
Welcome fathers, to the future! You're now officially a creep until proven otherwise.
No, it isn't. We have separate public toilets as a remnant of a policy of excluding women from public life and enforcing class divisions. Female public toilets did not exist until the early 20th century and were still rare well into the 20th century.
Additional fun facts: In West Virginia, women were barred from jury service until 1956 because courthouses didn't have female toilets. In the US Capitol building, there were no toilets for female senators until 1992.
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2. You do not have the right to trample other people's rights int he process of the above.
When I go to the ladies' room, I'm not trampling anyone's rights. What the hell are you talking about?
I've had precisely one comment from a woman in a public washroom. And her comment was: "I really like your necklace."
And secondly: You and your ilk do not have the right to force me to risk my safety. You do not have the right to make it legal to deny LGBT people housing or employment.
If they really wanted to pass a law about perverts in restrooms, maybe they should start by targeting a population that's been proven to have a much higher incidence rate - Republican Senators.