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Free Lightsaber Event Now Battling Lucasfilm's Lawyers (siliconbeat.com)

For eight years the arts collective Newmindspace had been staging free lightsaber battles, and in December they set a world record with 9,951 "combatants" simultaneously participating in San Francisco, Los Angeles, San Diego and Seattle. But then in January they received a letter from the copyright attorneys for the Star Wars franchise. "We immediately stopped using the words 'lightsaber,' 'Jedi,' 'Sith' and 'The Force,' " the group's co-founder told the technology blog of the San Jose Mercury News, saying they've still been "aggressively pursued" for the last three months. '''In March we received further communication stating 'The Light Battle Tour' and 'light sword' were still too close to their trademarks, and we moved to settle the dispute to avoid legal action." Their new solution involves referring to the weapons as "catblades", and they've re-branded their upcoming series of events (which begins on April 30 in San Jose) as the "Cats in Space Tour".

40 of 198 comments (clear)

  1. Because... by wbr1 · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Because people having fun and not tithing us is upsetting.

    Otherwise stated, because fuck you that's why.

    Imagine if this had stopped 'Star Trek" conventions through the years. Would the franchise be nearly as popular as it was/is?
    Here is a clue for the 1% media fucktards and their lawyer army. Something that gets people engaged and excited about your supposed "IP" is free word of mouth advertising. Word of mouth advertising is free, and far more effective than any other kind that you pay dearly for. The trade of is you cannot tightly control the message. Boo hoo.

    --
    Silence is a state of mime.
    1. Re:Because... by 110010001000 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Star Trek conventions are licensed. All you guys have been duped by the marketing.

    2. Re:Because... by GrumpySteen · · Score: 2

      To be fair, it is a bit difficult to differentiate between them when the USPTO keeps issuing trademarks for purely descriptive phrases like square donuts and design patents for things that would barely qualify for copyright protection.

    3. Re:Because... by Rei · · Score: 4, Informative

      Analog Magazine cover, 1969

      The rod “ something in appearance like a cross between the flame of a welding torch and the arc of a static electricity charge crackled from the end of the rod even as it burst from the end of the rod the discharge from Galyan’s rod met the discharge from Slothiel’s head on, and the two lines of white fire splashed harmlessly into an aurora of sparks"

      --
      "Well, then fire it up and show me what this..." (sigh) ... "coccoon can do."
    4. Re:Because... by Shadow99_1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      He um, sold Star Wars. So no, don't blame him (except for originally 'trademarking' those things). The lawyers are Disney's and we know exactly how litigious they are.

      --
      we are all invisible unless we choose otherwise
    5. Re:Because... by wisnoskij · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "defending your brand" does not typically mean preventing any of your copyrighted words and names from being uttered in public.

      --
      Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
    6. Re:Because... by nospam007 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "There are only three forms of IP: trademark, copyright and patent."

      And all of them illusions, in reality there are none.

    7. Re:Because... by wait_a_little · · Score: 3, Informative

      In Japan, self-published works are called doujin works. Many of them are derivative of existing works, like commercially published manga and anime. What's special about them is that they are openly sold. Comiket, the most popular event for buying and selling doujin works, has over 30,000 individuals and groups selling stuff, and over 500,000 total attendees. Twice a year. Not everything there is based on existing works, but a lot of it is.

      It's not technically legal to sell these derivative doujin works, but it's still allowed by the vast majority of copyright owners because the derivative works 1) don't duplicate or compete with the original, 2) help to create a fandom that draws in more people and sustains interest in the original work, and 3) train new talent who will go on to publish their own commercial works. The doujin scene is important enough that the prime minister recently announced that derivative works will continue to be allowed even if the TPP becomes law (or in other words, it will still be left up to the copyright owners to decide if they want to allow them or not).

      A particular success story in the doujin scene has been the Touhou game series, which has been authored and self-published by just one developer since the 90s. The series wouldn't have even a fraction of its huge popularity without the massive amount of derivative works based on it (manga, art, fanfiction, games, anime, music). There's now loads of commercially produced Touhou merchandise, and several manga series, and the series could be commercially even bigger if the author wanted it to be. But it would never have gotten this far without the doujin scene, and might not even exist in the first place without it.

    8. Re:Because... by KGIII · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I have a deep dislike for the sentiments posed by the AC that you replied to. By blaming someone else, they're taking the blame from Disney and that's where the fault truly lies. It's like those who want to blame ISIS on the US. No, the US isn't the one out there cutting heads off. If you want to blame the US for it then you might as well blame the League of Nations and the colonization that screwed up the whole area and whose actions gave rise to the situation we have today.

      However, no... The Europeans (the US was not a member nation in the League of Nations) aren't to blame for ISIS either. The blame is squarely on the jackasses who are busy chopping heads and throwing gay people off of "Chuck-a-homo Bridge." They're the ones responsible. They're the people who are committing the atrocities. Trying to blame someone other than them is just shifting the attention and a method of refusing to accept the fact that this problem needs addressing.

      Just like this - but slightly less severe when it's just about movie/fan rights. They might be light sabers but nobody is losing a head over this. Still, if the AC tries to blame Lucas then they're just shifting the blame from Disney. Disney is the controlling rights holder and Disney is to blame for this. I doubt we've got Disney shills here but that's pretty much what I'd do if I wanted to minimize the negative impact done to Disney's public image. I'd do what I can to make sure that Lucas was blamed and that Disney rarely came up in the conversation.

      However, no... It's probably not a paid shill - or "online reputation management expert." It's probably just that the AC really isn't all that bright. I'd almost rather they be a paid shill but, alas, they're probably just stupid.

      Oh, something I was thinking about while scrolling through but not really entirely related to this comment... I wonder what other sorts of protections Disney has. They could probably just have a yearly event and be careful to avoid the terms. I don't know what copyright would cover when it's transformed into look-alike products that bear a superficial relationship. I don't suppose they've gone so far as to get things like a design patent for this stuff? If they've done that, I'm not sure what that covers.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    9. Re:Because... by KGIII · · Score: 2

      Thermos, Escalator, and Aspirin.

      Heroin, Cellophane, Trampoline.

      Laundromat, Dry Ice, and Kerosene.

      Zip Code, Yo-yo, and Zipper.

      More recently, in 2011, Apple abandoned a fight over App Store. They abandoned the trademark as well.

      All of the above failed to defend and lost their exclusive rights on the name. The company may still use it but they have lost cases since their inception because they failed to defend it. You can use Google and find a whole bunch of 'em. I knew a few of them and cheated to find the rest. ;-)

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    10. Re:Because... by tlhIngan · · Score: 2

      design patents for things that would barely qualify for copyright protection.

      You do realize copyright and design patents are completely different things, right?

      A design patent covers things that aren't copyrightable - they're for ornamental features of an object. You can't copyright a physical object by definition, but you can protect the look and feel of a physical object with a design patent.

      Copyright affects creative works - typically music, movies, books, etc. As the "design" of this doesn't really apply (you can't really apply for a design patent on the on the way the page is laid out, though you could if the book was shaped oddly - say you put a hole in the middle and some other things).

      What's with IT educated people wanting everyone to have a computer education and failing to learn about IP law? It's not hard (most of what you need to know can be covered in a short book)...

  2. PR idiots by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I would have sponsored the event, it's obvious that there is a huge following of fans there.

    1. Re:PR idiots by Harlequin80 · · Score: 2

      Exactly. They could have sponsored them. Added a few extra small things like cosplay judging or something and then made out like thieves on crappy memorabilia.

    2. Re:PR idiots by mark-t · · Score: 2

      Or, if Disney didn't want to do that, they could have at least told them to explicitly acknowledge the terms they might be using that are owned by Disney, and to state that Disney has not sponsored or endorsed the event, which would make their usage fall into nominative use, giving Disney no legally sustainable reason to sue them in the first place since nominative usage of a trademarked term, even in public, is considered non-diluting.

  3. Lucasfilm and Disney are scumbags.... by Lumpy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Instead of reaching out and asking if these people would want to become a sanctioned event, or a simple, could you please work with us to not violate our IP, they chose to instead swing the FUCK YOU hammer.

    Lawyers are garbage.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    1. Re:Lucasfilm and Disney are scumbags.... by StormReaver · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Who didn't see this coming when Disney bought Lucasfilm? This is just the beginning.

    2. Re:Lucasfilm and Disney are scumbags.... by dbIII · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm not a lawyer but I do recognise it's the pricks that send in the lawyers for this sort of thing that are the real garbage. Do you think a lawyer would do this on their own without somebody giving them money and a task to do?

    3. Re:Lucasfilm and Disney are scumbags.... by GrumpySteen · · Score: 3, Informative

      Do you think a lawyer would do this on their own without somebody giving them money and a task to do?

      Absolutely. Prenda Law is well known for 'buying' rights from porn companies in order to use them to extort money from defendants. It's very doubtful that any company ever paid them to go after anyone, though the people behind Prenda law certainly had fun setting up shell corporations to try and make it look like it.

    4. Re:Lucasfilm and Disney are scumbags.... by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Who didn't see this coming when Disney bought Lucasfilm? This is just the beginning.

      This better hit 5 insightful.

      Way back in time.... http://www.snopes.com/disney/w...

      In 1989, a day care center in Florida had some paintings of some Disney characters on the wall in their playroom. What better way to get little children to become fans and put more money into the coffers? Little kids begging for their parents to take them to Disney again and again to see the real characters that they fondly remember from a very young age

      But Disney didn't see it that way, so they bitchslapped the the center with the threat of legal action.

      Hanna Barbera stepped in and allowed the place to use it's characters gratis.

      Oh, just wait cosplayers and Star Wars fans. Just wait until the court cases over Han shot first. The C and D lawsuits over sexy Leia bikinis.

      If you thought Lucas was an asshole, welcome to your new overlords.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    5. Re:Lucasfilm and Disney are scumbags.... by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 2

      Instead of reaching out and asking if these people would want to become a sanctioned event, or a simple, could you please work with us to not violate our IP, they chose to instead swing the FUCK YOU hammer.

      Lawyers are garbage.

      Yup, that would have been good all around. Let them license the terms so Disney doesn't have copyright issues; the event holders could even put in a nod to Disney thanking them for being decent enough to work out a good solution. However, they instead decided to bring out the Death Star...

      For me, the classic example how to do it right in such a situation is how Stevens Aviation settled with Southwest over the "Plane Smart" slogan. Stevens Aviation CEO Herwald challenged Southwest CEO Kelleher to an arm wrestling contest over the name. "Malice in Dallas" raised money for charity and provided a PR boost for Southwest and Stevens Aviation. A good writeup is at

      http://gizmodo.com/how-an-arm-...

      --
      I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
    6. Re:Lucasfilm and Disney are scumbags.... by sjames · · Score: 2

      Unlike a gun, a lawyer has the option to decline. It's like the old joke, "What is the difference between a whore and a lawyer?". "There are some things a whore won't do".

  4. Cats In Space? by supremebob · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Seriously, is that the best name they could come up with it?

    I would have went with the "Generic Glowing Space Sword" battle, which gets the point across while giving the middle finger to Disney and their copyrights.

    They could have also done a Spaceballs themed Swartz battle, assuming that whoever owns that copyright also isn't an asshole.

    1. Re:Cats In Space? by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They could have also done a Spaceballs themed Swartz battle, assuming that whoever owns that copyright also isn't an asshole.

      That would be Mel Brooks, who I suspect would not only not sue, but would probably show up and make them laugh their asses off, as well.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
  5. Re:Good by darthsilun · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If someone spends a {week,month,year} creating something, at least they're actually creating something.
    My daughter makes costumes for herself and her husband. Often they are characters from a movie, but sometimes from a book. Last year I helped her make a metal belt buckle for her Gamora costume.
    Don't be dissing people for the things they like. Who are you to judge? And if they're making something, that's extra cool.

  6. Lemme get that. Because I somehow don't. by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So there is this huge event made by geeks that costs them not a dime, advertises their franchise with what is pretty much a public stunt show and they SUE against that?

    "But what if they misrepresent it?"

    Please! We're talking hardcore geeks here. Anything that could remotely, possibly be consider by someone not-canon would be axed if not nuked with more zeal and closer attention to detail and accuracy than any of the lawyers who have no idea about the franchise itself, only about its IP laws, could or would do. If anything, these things are going to be closer to canon and whatever the "designers" of the franchise create than any amusement park you sell your IP to ever would (because they don't give a fuck about canon as long as it is gimmicky).

    So please explain that to me. It makes no sense.

    Oh. It's covered by copyright law. Ok, never mind, carry on, that's not supposed to make sense.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    1. Re:Lemme get that. Because I somehow don't. by Opportunist · · Score: 2

      Like Disney gives a shit about that, it's a miracle that they didn't retcon the first trilogy altogether so far.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:Lemme get that. Because I somehow don't. by c · · Score: 2

      Like Disney gives a shit about that, it's a miracle that they didn't retcon the first trilogy altogether so far.

      That's roughly my point. You're arguing that fans aren't going to misrepresent Star Wars canon, but you're also aknowledging that there's a (growing) disagreement between fans and the property owners about what actually is canon.

      In such a disagreement, the side with the bigger lawyers usually "wins".

      --
      Log in or piss off.
  7. Just change the name by dbIII · · Score: 2

    Just change the name - Sword Art Online had the "laser sword".
    It's as valid as renaming Snarf to Jar-Jar and then making the character horribly annoying.

  8. Fair Use by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Ah, so their business strategy for keeping their business is to gain revenue from fans by alienating fans.
    This is quite a novel approach to business. Ok then. If they can dictate what English words other people should use, then i will dictate how my money that i created will be used.
    I won't buy anything Star Wars ever again, and will only pirate any and all media they get out.
    Two for two.

    1. Re:Fair Use by ledow · · Score: 4, Insightful

      All say "boo". Walk away and find another franchise.

      Honestly, never "got" Star Wars anyway, certainly not the modern prequel crap, and can't bear to sit through any of them.

      But the problem is that people think it's "a franchise for the fans" when it's just "a franchise for the finance". They honestly don't care about your fan club, they just want money from you. And fucking idiots keep giving them money.

      Let it die. Go "Oh, yeah, that was a good movie when I was a kid". Then forget about it. Not even out of spite. Just forget it exists and move on. It had its time. Like "The Matrix", it was great, it was milked for all it was worth, let it then die, and at least remember the first as a great movie.

      Incidentally: Star Trek, Dr Who (??? Seriously don't understand this, despite being British), etc. are all the same.

      Let it remain in your childhood as a fond memory, rather than playing a kid for the next 40 years and handing people money for doing nothing and screwing over actors.

      Every movie and TV show I ever watched as a kid? Nowhere near as fun as I remember. Just keep them in your head, they are funnier there, and cost nothing.

  9. Easy solution... copy someone else's parody? by The+MAZZTer · · Score: 4, Funny

    I see your Schwartz is as big as mine.

  10. Re:Good by GrumpySteen · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Yeah! And enough with books and music and television and movies. Everyone should stay in their basement and never expose themselves to anyone else's creative works, much less celebrate them!

    Or, you know, we could continue to behave like humans have behaved since the beginning of recorded history.

    Sharing stories and celebrating them is a fundamental part of human interaction. We use stories to share our knowledge, beliefs and morals. Stories entertain and educate and act as a form of common ground that people can use to connect to and understand one another.

  11. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    From wikipedia:

    There are several literary precedents in science fiction for a "sword" of pure energy that can cut through anything, notably:
    Dickson's "rod" showing the similarity it bears to a lightsaber.

            Edmond Hamilton's story Kaldar: World of Antares[3] (published 1933 in the April issue of The Magic Carpet Magazine). It was reprinted in one of Donald A. Wollheims well-known and widely-read Science Fiction anthologies, Swordsmen in the Sky, Ace Books 79276, 1964, and thus readily available to the Science Fiction reader community of the 1960s and 1970s.
            Fritz Leiber's Gather Darkness (1943): the priests' "rods of wrath" (energy projections) only end where they cut into solid matter, so that a single duel led to numerous casualties of bystanders and charred scores across all nearby walls.[4]
            Isaac Asimov's Lucky Starr series (1952): The force-blade is "a short shaft of stainless steel" which can project a force field that can cut through anything, making it "the most vicious weapon in the galaxy." Asimov's force-blade expands on his earlier invention of "a penknife with a force-field blade," first used in his Foundation novel (1951).[5]
            Gordon R. Dickson's Wolfling (1969): the rod “ something in appearance like a cross between the flame of a welding torch and the arc of a static electricity charge crackled from the end of the rod even as it burst from the end of the rod the discharge from Galyan’s rod met the discharge from Slothiel’s head on, and the two lines of white fire splashed harmlessly into an aurora of sparks, ".[6][7]
            Larry Niven's Ringworld (1970): Louis Wu uses his "flashlight laser" as a sword of indefinite length.[8]
            M. John Harrison's The Pastel City (1971): the energy baan are used by the Methven, an order of knights sworn to protect their empire.[8]

    Like Harry Potter, almost no single element of Star Wars is "original", its just a blend that was there at the right place and right time and got popular. So can we stop treating the creators of these franchises as creative gods and merely make them mere mortals again and doing what other creators have always done? That is copy and imitate and through enough thought and practice, sometimes put their own slightly original spin on something?

    Copying and imitating them in turn shouldn't become illegal just because they had the good fortune to get popular.

  12. Re:Butthole Astronomer by goombah99 · · Score: 5, Informative

    From Wikipedia: In 1994, engineers at Apple Computer code-named the mid-level Power Macintosh 7100 "Carl Sagan" after the popular astronomer in the hope that Apple would make "billions and billions" with the sale of the computer. Apple used the name only internally, but Sagan was concerned that it would become a product endorsement and sent Apple a cease-and-desist letter. Apple complied, but its engineers retaliated by changing the internal codename to "BHA" for "Butt-Head Astronomer". Sagan then sued Apple for libel in federal court. In November 1995, Apple and Sagan reached an out-of-court settlement and Apple's office of trademarks and patents released a conciliatory statement that "Apple has always had great respect for Dr. Sagan. It was never Apple's intention to cause Dr. Sagan or his family any embarrassment or concern". Apple's third and final code name for the project was "LaW", short for "Lawyers are Wimps".

    I think they should call these blades Litigation Exit Sabers or LitESabers for short.

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
  13. It's how trademark law works by Solandri · · Score: 4, Informative

    They have to protect themselves against trademark dilution, or they could lose the trademark. The more amenable solution would've been to give these guys a license to use those trademarks for their event for a paltry sum like $1. But I guess Disney wants all such events to require you pay the $100+ admission to Disneyland / Disneyworld.

    And at this point, I don't think the franchise cares about any more advertising, free or not. It's pretty much reached the saturation point in mindshare.

  14. Re:They were shut down in 2013 by GrumpySteen · · Score: 2

    Sort of, but not really.

    Prenda Law shut down, but the people behind it haven't faced any real consequences.

    Paul Hansmeier was one of the people behind Prenda Law, for example. He's moved on to filing ADA violation lawsuits against small businesses using the same business model; demand payments that are a bit less than it would take to defend in court in order to drop the suit. He's filed over a hundred of those lawsuits in less than two years.

    He's also trying to file for bankruptcy to get out of the debts from the Prenda Law fiasco and there are signs that he's been fraudulently transferring assets to his wife in order to avoid losing them in the bankruptcy. Because why not? Our legal system is set up to protect the wealthy owners of corporations while fucking over people who do things like take out a student loan to pay for college, after all.

    It does look like he might finally get disbarred in Minnesota, but he can still continue the same scheme in other states where he's licensed until those states go through the process of disbarring him as well.

  15. A better solution.. by lionchild · · Score: 2

    Since Lucasfilm/Disney would be better served by not having lawyers running after a good-will event like this, it seems like everyone might be better served if Lucanfilm/Disney would require them to collect a $1 entry fee, all of which is required to go to a charity. Now, no on looks like the bad guy, everyone has fun, and people get some help.

    --
    Awk! Pieces of eight. Pieces of eight. Pieces of seven... ERROR: General Protection Fault. [Paroty Error.]
  16. Not really by JBMcB · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Lucas used to hand out free IP licenses all the time. He let people make amateur films based on Star Wars. You just sent him a letter asking for permission and you usually got it. As long as you aren't making loads of money off of it he didn't care.

    --
    My Other Computer Is A Data General Nova III.
  17. Re:Good by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Look, if they were actually making something interesting, creating something new, that would be one thing. But they're just imitating things that others created.

    So what? Let them be fans and get their rocks off over what they like. It's not my thing, but lots of things aren't my thing, and you know what? I'm okay with it.

    What I find petty and grasping is when a creator feels like he or she is owed money every time mention is made of something they created. Note to creators: fans are what MADE you popular, cut them some slack FFS. Stop being such greedy, grasping dollar whores. You've made your millions, relax a little and enjoy your money without being such a bunch of robot-like revenue-seeking pricks.

    --
    Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
  18. Re:Good by 110010001000 · · Score: 2

    Well let the content creators do what THEY like and ask for money. It isn't my thing, but you know what? I am OK with it. So stupid. Go do something original, if you don't want to be original, pay the creators what they ask.