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Human Limbs Evolved From Shark Fins Thanks To Sonic Hedgehog Gene (mirror.co.uk)

Posted by msmash on from the how-it-all-began dept.

An anonymous reader shares a report at Mirror: Scientists believe human limbs evolved from the gills of sharks -- thanks to a gene named after Sonic the Hedgehog. The discovery comes from analysis of skate, a cartilaginous fish which has much in common with sharks. Limbs, like gills, grow thanks to a vital protein known as the 'Sonic hedgehog gene' -- named after the video game character. The new discovery backs up a theory suggested 138 years ago that legs and arms evolved from prehistoric fish gills. Gizmodo has more details on this.

54 of 95 comments (clear)

  1. a vital protein known as the 'Sonic hedgehog gene' by phishybongwaters · · Score: 2

    FFS. Just no. NO.

  2. Bony fish did not evolve from sharks by jfdavis668 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Bony fish and their decedents, including tetrapods, did not evolve from sharks, but a common ancestor of both.

    1. Re:Bony fish did not evolve from sharks by Brett+Buck · · Score: 1

      And ultimately, the limbs arose as a modification of the fins on lobe-finned fish.

              I looked up "sonic the hedgehog" gene and didn't find too many scholarly articles on that particular gene. Nor did I find any "Spiny Norman" gene, nor in fact any hedgehog references to any genes.

             

    2. Re:Bony fish did not evolve from sharks by Tough+Love · · Score: 5, Informative

      "evolved from SHARK fins" is a journalistic invention from mirror.co and is not the fault of the cited article, which says "evolved from the transformation of gill arches in early fish", clearly including common ancestors. It is perfectly plausible that the same gene may have descended in recognizable form down these not very widely separated branches of the evolutionary tree, that is certainly true of many other genes. What other means do we have to learn something about genes of the vanished common parent, other than studying the similarities and differences of current expression and function of recognizable descendents in dissimilar species?

      Anyway, the research is about gills, not fins, so that is another journalistic crime from mirror.co. It would have been more honest to run a headline along the lines that shark gills and human hands are essentially the same, but then would anybody read it?

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    3. Re:Bony fish did not evolve from sharks by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      The headline writers are the sharks.

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      Table-ized A.I.
    4. Re:Bony fish did not evolve from sharks by serviscope_minor · · Score: 3, Informative

      That's because it's sonic hedgehog, not sonic THE hedgehog.

      Many references:

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    5. Re:Bony fish did not evolve from sharks by Schmorgluck · · Score: 1

      Seriously. You have to wonder if there's a lack of scientific journalists who can come up with better headlines and articles that don't twist the facts too much.

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    6. Re:Bony fish did not evolve from sharks by newcastlejon · · Score: 1

      Anyway, the research is about gills, not fins, so that is another journalistic crime from mirror.co. It would have been more honest to run a headline along the lines that shark gills and human hands are essentially the same, but then would anybody read it?

      Not really, if anyone were interested they'd probably already seen the segment on Attenborough's "Rise of the Animals". Besides, you can't expect much in the way of science reporting from the Mirror.

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    7. Re:Bony fish did not evolve from sharks by Fragnet · · Score: 1

      I was about to say precisely this. In fact I've just finished watching a wonderful talk by a fish palaeontologist on more or less this very subject.

  3. Title doesn't reflect article by Big_Oh · · Score: 5, Informative

    RTFA: from gills, not from fins.

    1. Re:Title doesn't reflect article by jimbolauski · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This is the trifecta of bad /. submissions, the title contradicts the summary and/or article, a least one link in the summary is to a click bait site, and the summary has factual errors.

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    2. Re:Title doesn't reflect article by srmalloy · · Score: 2

      The mirror.co.uk article does say "shark fins" in the title, so the poster was just knee-jerking TFA. The Gizmodo article is more rational on the subject; the article on mirror.co.uk is crammed full of sensationalism, like the "scientists believe" phrase at the start of the post, which implies that it's a widely- or universally-held belief, while the Gizmodo article states "Now scientists at the University of Cambridge have performed experiments on the embryos of skates that point to a possible evolutionary connection between the gills of those fish and our limbs." The mirror.co.uk article gets well down in the article before it actually quotes the principle researcher saying that "taken to an extreme" this indicates that gills and limbs share genetic programming, but that this is not yet proven, and they can't say for certain because of gaps in the fossil record. But rational, measured articles don't have the flash of waving a possible connection around as a foregone conclusion.

    3. Re:Title doesn't reflect article by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      And skates, not sharks. And "are related to" not "evolved from". I understand why a rag like mirror hacked up that headline, but why did a Slashdot editor uncritically promulgate that journalistic slime? The research is fascinating enough without the outright lies.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    4. Re:Title doesn't reflect article by I4ko · · Score: 1

      That article is batshit insane and 19 days too late. Lungs developed from gills, limbs developed from fins. That's all backed up by a ton of evidence.

  4. Of course by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    This is why we see so many aquatic creatures swimming around with partial arms and legs dangling off of them while in transition. The evidence is so overwhelming, we must believe it. BELIEVE!

  5. Laser Implants by Lead+Butthead · · Score: 4, Funny

    So we should all start looking into getting laser implants?

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  6. Re:a vital protein known as the 'Sonic hedgehog ge by Carewolf · · Score: 5, Funny

    FFS. Just no. NO.

    At least this discovery wasn't made aboard the research vessel Boaty McBoatFace.

  7. shark's teeth by cellocgw · · Score: 1

    evolved into Mackie's knife, eh?

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  8. Re:a vital protein known as the 'Sonic hedgehog ge by aliquis · · Score: 1

    FFS. Just no. NO.

    Well, you do go faster on land with legs than if you don't have any. Right?

  9. I'm sure Rudyard Kipling... by macxcool · · Score: 1

    would be pleased to see his work continued. I always loved reading his 'Just So Stories' to my kids.

  10. Re:138 Years Ago by jfdavis668 · · Score: 2

    I remember back when I was little, and people were first crawling out of the swamps onto land. Never thought it would last.

  11. That explains it by cyberchondriac · · Score: 1

    I can breathe through my hands and feet. Which is torture, because foot odor.

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  12. uh by Rich_Lather · · Score: 1

    With so many typos, I wonder if Slashdot has been hacked.

  13. Circle of Life by paiute · · Score: 4, Funny

    Shark evolves gills.
    Gills evolve into arms.
    Arms evolve into man.
    Man invents laser.
    Shark gets laser on head.

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    1. Re:Circle of Life by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 1

      Uh... Burma Shave?

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  14. No They Didn't. by zenlessyank · · Score: 1

    Humans evolved from demon semen. Evil is always just a synapse away. Evil does not evolve. It is finite. I think we have some more classes in logic to take around here. Whimmers need not apply.

    1. Re:No They Didn't. by zenlessyank · · Score: 2

      That's what I said. But the Carpenters wouldn't have anything to do with it. Go figure.

  15. And duplicated as well by Okian+Warrior · · Score: 1

    RTFA: from gills, not from fins.

    Furthermore, IIRC, the developing human foetus has gills in addition to limbs.

    So the gill that developed into a limb was *duplicated* in subsequent evolutionary models.

    I dunno - a feature morphing into another feature by natural selection seems reasonable, but a feature duplicated sounds like a stretch.

    Any evolution experts care to comment?

    1. Re:And duplicated as well by EvilSS · · Score: 1

      Fish have gill arches and fins, which may, the paper proposes, have also evolved from early gill arches.

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    2. Re:And duplicated as well by jawtheshark · · Score: 1

      Just in case you don't know. Recapitulation theory ("ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny") has been largely discredited.

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  16. Re:Well known by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

    This is pushing further back than lobe finned fish from what I can gather. Lobe finned fish weren't the first tetrapods.

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  17. Re:a vital protein known as the 'Sonic hedgehog ge by serviscope_minor · · Score: 2

    FFS. Just no. NO.

    Yep!

    Someone discovered a gene and called it "hedgehog" because it made fly larvae look like mini hedgehogs. Then someone discovered another variety and the form X hedgehog was born. Then someone who grew up in the 80s found a variety and thought it would be a good wheeze to make X=Sonic.

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    SJW n. One who posts facts.
  18. There's an obesity gene named after McDonalds by goombah99 · · Score: 1

    No I just made that up. But San Francisco voters did try to name a sewage treatment plant after GWB.

    What gene would you name after trump?

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    1. Re:There's an obesity gene named after McDonalds by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      Sonic the Hedgehog Hair gene

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  19. Sharknado 4 plot? by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    Is this part of the Sharknado 4 plot?

  20. 138 years ago? by ilsaloving · · Score: 1

    Whoa, you mean the creationists were right?

    1. Re:138 years ago? by SeaFox · · Score: 2

      The theory is what was suggested 138 years ago. It wasn't suggested the evolutionary change itself occurred then.
      Don't worry. I had to read that part twice, too.

    2. Re:138 years ago? by I'm+not+god+any+more · · Score: 1

      The new discovery backs up a 138 year old theory that legs and arms evolved from prehistoric fish gills.
      FTFY

    3. Re:138 years ago? by OS2toMAC · · Score: 1

      You know, a couple of commas would have made that much easier,,,

      "The new discovery backs up a theory, suggested 138 years ago, that legs and arms evolved from prehistoric fish gills."

      See?

    4. Re:138 years ago? by SeaFox · · Score: 1

      Make sure you file that comment with the submitter. I, on the other hand, know how to use commas.

  21. Thanks To Sonic The Hedgehog Game by snowsmann · · Score: 2

    Did anyone else read that as "Human Limbs Evolved From Shark Fins Thanks To Sonic The Hedgehog Game" at first? I was trying to figure out how playing the Sega game would change shark fins into human limbs...

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  22. Bad summary by Geoffrey.landis · · Score: 5, Informative

    A very bad summary. That's what they get for using the Daily Mirror as if anything they published were actually science journalism.

    The proposed evolution is from gills, not from fins. And even here, it's the gill arch: not the gills, but the cartilage supporting the gills

    Sharks have nothing to do with it-- the fish in question are skates, not sharks, and even here, they aren't proposing that limbs evolved from skate gill arches, but from the gill arches of proto-fishes who were ancestral to both.

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  23. A corrections is needed - about 138 million by jonbenson · · Score: 1

    I hope someone corrects that post to read 138 million years ago and not 138 years ago. I don't think we just got our legs and arms in 1878.

    1. Re:A corrections is needed - about 138 million by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 1

      I don't think the theory was suggested 138 million years ago.

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    2. Re:A corrections is needed - about 138 million by I4ko · · Score: 1

      It could have been...by the sharks... they just didn't record it. Perhaps one of their mad scientist decided to experiment with eugenics, the experiment went sideways and.. humans are the result.

  24. Re:a vital protein known as the 'Sonic hedgehog ge by HiChris! · · Score: 1

    Umm.. you missed the part where they called a protein a gene.

  25. Jesus, try being a bit wronger, why don't you? by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 2

    Human Limbs Evolved From Shark Fins

    Scientists believe human limbs evolved from the gills of sharks

    Fins, gills, same thing right?

    Second thing: we're not descended from sharks.

    --
    systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
  26. Re:a vital protein known as the 'Sonic hedgehog ge by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

    good point!

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    SJW n. One who posts facts.
  27. it's not April First any more, guys. by swschrad · · Score: 1

    stop posting beer talk.

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  28. Re:a vital protein known as the 'Sonic hedgehog ge by spiritplumber · · Score: 1

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... This protein is named after a 1990s Italian TV character that would video-bomb various shows by hitting himself in the nuts with a plastic bottle. So, be glad it's "just" Sonic.

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  29. Re:Bad summary Sharks have nothing to do with it-- by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

    They weren't proto fishes back then, they were full fishes. Fishes go all the way down to the craniates which have no spine, only a skull (hagfish), and including the jawless fish (of which lampreys remain). The jawed fishes were full fish before the cartilaginout/bony split.

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    SJW n. One who posts facts.
  30. Re:a vital protein known as the 'Sonic hedgehog ge by OakDragon · · Score: 2

    You're just jealous because you didn't get to name it the Q*bert gene.

    @!#?@!

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    Dark Reflection
  31. "Science" "Journalism" by nmoore · · Score: 1
    Let's apply the Daily Mail's science journalism standards to other topics:
  32. Re:a vital protein known as the 'Sonic hedgehog ge by Coren22 · · Score: 1

    Do you not understand how Slashdot functions? USERS submit stories from other sites, the submissions are upvoted, and eventually brought to the front page. If you think something else should be on Slashdot's homepage, SUBMIT IT.

    https://slashdot.org/submissio...

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