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US Suicide Rate Surges To Highest Level In Almost Three Decades, Says Report (bbc.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from BBC: The suicide rate in the U.S. has surged to its highest level in almost three decades, according to a new report from the CDC. There was no explanation for the rise but some experts have pointed to increased abuse of prescription opiates and the financial downturn that began in 2008 as likely factors. The report did not break down the suicides by education level or income, but previous studies found rising suicide rates among white people without university degrees. CDC reported on Friday that suicides have increased in the US to a rate of 13 per 100,000 people, the highest since 1986. The overall suicide rate rose by 24% from 1999 to 2014, according to the CDC. However, the rate increased 43% among white men ages 45 to 64 and 63% for women in the same age-range. In 2014, more than 14,000 middle-aged white people killed themselves. That figure is double the combined suicides total for all blacks, Hispanics, Asians, Pacific Islanders, American Indians, and Alaska Natives. The suicide rate only declined for only two groups: black men and all people over 75.
With the press, political garbage, continued military actions, bad economy and the apparent focus on material wealth- who would expect a different outcome?
People need stability, security, and community to really thrive. This country has not promoted those values.
This shouldn't be framed as a political or religious problem- it's a lack of decency. It means that as individuals we've simply stopped caring. Societies rise and fall based on how people treat others on a daily basis. We treat each other badly. Some people will decide to leave. Some will take their lives. Some just take it. Those who complain are called whiners.
You can in fact beat a person to the point where they prefer death. The beatings in the USA are done by a million paper cuts.
Another consultant who stuck it out.
"We are the Priests, of the Temples of Syrinx..."
Sounds like the legacy of Reaganomics (aka sell out to the highest bidder - "I got mines") to me - high unemployment, deregulation causing massive harm on many levels, low wages, eviscerated unions, corporate oligarchy running roughshod over actual people...
I'd like to see that number go up to 100%.
I'd guess there is correlation with being at war.
The rates are higher for vets and those who lost family.
"Religion is opium for everybody"
-- Vladimir Lenin
...should probably include a hotline number.
I've written software since the 70s. Never had a problem getting a job. In '08 I left a good company to join a startup, cuz I was young and stupid and wanted a million bux. Startup flamed out after a year. No sweat, I'll just get another job.
Since '10 you wanna guess how many companies I've interviewed for? 0. Exactly 0. Nobody even wants to interview a 50+ person, let alone hire them. I've got 30 years experience with embedded systems. I've written several Linux device drivers. I've written 3x more for systems other than Linux. I've designed systems from back of the napkin descriptions. I'm pretty good at maybe 10 languages, expert in 3-5. Biggest of all, I understand the importance of SCM and bug tracking.
I'm not gonna shoot myself or anything, but I've got friends my age in the same boat I'm in. Unemployed for years, no health insurance, no income, nobody wants to interview us. Our golden years are looking like fools gold to us.
I recommend you don't use "SJW" as anything you dislike, given the fact it is a word to describe very specific people with very specific goals and generally using a very specific vocabulary.
I mean, that's an actual real problem, not "microtriggering misogyinistic biggot air conditioner in a marvel movie" as those things like to complain about.
This of course assuming you're not a false flagger or something of sorts.
Snu-snu.
Have gnu, will travel.
some experts have pointed to increased abuse of prescription opiates
That is a symptom, not the cause.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
"Religion is opium for everybody"
Not me, my mind is a temple. Uh, an ateist temple. Wait, what?
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
The statistical suicide rates for opiate 'addicts' are probably severely flawed. I suspect a large portion are actually chronic pain sufferers that didn't get adequate medical care. The medical community is absolutely horrendous at treating chronic pain when they don't have some obvious cause. You are basically absolutely screwed if they can't look at some x-ray or MRI or CT and see something broken or out of place.
Mine started from a stupid fall onto a hammer two years ago. Eventually it got so bad I couldn't stand or sit or sleep basically live. I've forgotten how many times are frozen my skin solid trying to get the pain to go down. I am only taking tramdol at 150mg for that last two years. If I had done it I would've been considered an 'addict' statistic because there was a prescription bottle in the room.
I got a call from the Mayo Clinic the next day saying they accepted my case but that took more than two years to get to this point and being treated like you're some kind addict because your chronic pain.
if you hurt yourself make sure you fucking break it really good so the doctor can figure out what the fuck is wrong with you quickly otherwise you are screwed.
True, they can't expect tons of so-called "free" stuff.
Most of history was a worst time to be alive than right now, for the average person at least. It just somehow always seems to be fashionable to claim that "things were always better in the good ole days". It's just stupid cliche' bullshit from entitled brats.
I've written software since the 70s. Never had a problem getting a job. In '08 I left a good company to join a startup, cuz I was young and stupid and wanted a million bux.
You have written software since the 70's, but left a company in '08 because you were young and stupid?
Really? Interesting timeline.
I wrote software in 70s too, but I was 14 and working on my dad's PDP 11-45. So are you telling me that you were writing software for a living when you were a teenager?
Just wondering about the timeline.
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
Lost my job last year and I don't have any hope of finding a new one. My health sucks too but not enough to get disability. And my savings is running out. I've been living off my 401K so tax time this year took a lot of the money I had left, and they hit me with quarterly tax stuff for 2016 because they think I'll make too much money.
No you idiots. I am making zero money.
I can't afford my Obamacare, at almost $300 a month so that's going to cancel. Can't get medicaid or food stamps because I made too much money last year even though I haven't been employed at all since September. Well, also single men don't get coverage anyway. We don't matter.
So what am I supposed to do when the last of my 401K runs out? I have enough money left to last three more months. No kids, no spouse, a few worthless pets and me, age 46. And I am too sick and too weak and too out of options to care any more.
Job? I've tried. They want kids fresh out of school who will work twice the hours for the money. 15 years of experience from my last job is not of much value to anyone else when they can just hire some kids or H1-Bs cheap. Plus, I have no degree Hell I didn't even finish high school. I've worked and worked and worked for all these years and have nothing to show for it. So I am looking at GED and starting all that stuff and trying to pass it all and somehow afford college? At my age? With what money? I haven't been in school of any kind in decades and my mind is not up to it.
So yea I am thinking there is just no fucking point to this any more. I see no way out, no way forward. And I can't even TALK to anyone because the moment you tell someone you feel hopeless, they treat you like a mental case. Locking me in a padded room is not going to HELP. So I can't even say anything to friends. I can't tell them anything. I'm all alone.
When the money runs out, I'm done.
Unacceptable! Unacceptable!
This cannot be tolerated! Please people! Demand that it stop immediately! Indelible, uneditable comments is Slashdot's last redeeming value! Without it all is lost!
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
What is success?
What is beauty?
Axiology is a study we do not teach much or consider much these days.
The ancient Greeks studied axiology, ontology, and epistemology. They were curious about beauty, truth, value, belief, and opinion. This was the glorious age of the great philosophers who thought that they should be kings and rule the world.
Fast forward to 2016, in general, as a society, we no longer discuss these things and they are spoon fed to us by media, commercials, Facebook, CNN, Fox News etc... Sure there are still people who think about these things, but our culture is youth driven and based on consumerism.
Live has to be lived intentionally, with thoughtful care and purpose.
Things "are what they are" and we have a choice in how we react to them.
So many have lost hope, but I say to you, chose how you will react.
Life isn't some game you win or lose. Life is a grand adventure meant to be lived and experienced. You can do this from anywhere.
You are not your paycheck.
You are not your job.
You can always start over.
You always have a choice.
You can chose to let circumstances define you or your can chose to rise above them and find new truths.
You can chose to worry or you can chose to live.
No one is guaranteed another minute, embrace life, don't lose hope, chose to be a force for good. Embrace the adventure this life has to offer.
Do not give up!
But when he said this, opium was not synonymous with illicit drug abuse, it was synonymous with over-the-counter pain medication. Today he would have said something like "Religion is Advil for everybody."
Finding out just what is right is the tricky part, though.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Most of history was a worst time to be alive than right now, for the average person at least. It just somehow always seems to be fashionable to claim that "things were always better in the good ole days". It's just stupid cliche' bullshit from entitled brats.
One form of depression comes from low serotonin.
The metabolic pathway goes: 5-HTP->Tryptophan->Serotonin
Note that corn-fed stock (chickens, turkey, and such) is lower in tryptophan than free-range stock
Perhaps our modern diet is lower in tryptophan that our bodies are evolved for?
Serotonin (and all other neurotransmitters) are sent from one neuron to another, and then reclaimed. The reclamation process isn't 100% effective, some small amount is lost in the process, but the end result is that the brain doesn't make Serotonin very fast. It doesn't need to, because it expects to lose only a little during reclamation.
(This is the mechanism of SSRI antidepresants: they interfere with the "reuptake" process.)
If you have a job or environment that requires creativity, you may be exercising your Serotonin pathways a lot, leading to low serotonin. This is why the stereotype of "artist" includes dark, moody, and prone to suicide.
Maybe the rise in suicide is due to our fast-paced life that demands more creativity from many workers (such as programmers), while at the same time presenting us with lower Serotonin precursors such as Tryptophan.
Just a thought, probably isn't be true.
It's almost certainly due to the financial downturn and rise of prescription opiates.
Problem is, that also works for your plan. At some point your brain finds out that you're essentially inefficient and that you have the choice to either grin and bear it or get out of the game.
Personally I chose the former. It ain't that bad once you simply don't give a fuck anymore.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Wrong. The collapse of the American economy was predicted a very long time ago for the exact reasons that make the basis for your societal and economic ideology.
Just to be clear, at the same time there were people predicting a new era of wealth and happiness.
Economics is like that - you can always find someone who correctly predicted something (after the fact).
He needs the middle class. It finally dawned to them that they need someone to buy the crap they produce in China, because it's not producing cheaply that makes you rich, it's selling the cheap crap.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
I doubt directly to the practice itself, but botched circumcisions probably enter into the foundational emotional distress of at least a small percentage of unhappy men, especially ones that grew up in very poor and christian households.
People are starting to realize they are just a simulation and nothing really matters
I feel suicidal all the time and I am a 48 year old white male in the UK and I can describe it best like this,
as nothing more than a standardized, graded, economically and ideologically controlled off the shelf rent a product for government, industry and the rich, I feel powerless to stop myself from being exploited and have done everything I can so as to not join in with the insanity that is capitalism, but now the poor are being forced to. So unless you're rich, then you have very little control over your own fate and it's that feeling that leads to suicidal thoughts. I was setup to be working class and have a working class outlook on life, but I eventually after years of working in a factory realized the ultimate futility of my own existence when I was economically forced to do that kind of work, repetitive / boring and ultimately I was surrounded by people who couldn't see past the word JOB.
If one person gets to lay on a beach and never do a stitch and lives a great life with oodles of money and another has to get out of bed everyday and do something menial for buttons, whilst the mass media bombards everyone with poverty problems, followed by hey look what this super rich person is doing today, then guess what - CRAZY is a view that any rational person would have, So yeah - crazy = suicidal thoughts in some, because why would anyone want to join in with any of it.
The Zeitgeist movement have it right to a large extent, THIS SHIT HAS TO GO.
Yeah, and those atheists oppress the religious minority in the US, you can't even call a fag a fag anymore without being told that this is wrong.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
SSRIs
That largely depends on how you choose to selectively interpret the data.
On the one hand, we have much better contact with the world, and a lot more stuff. Household chores are certainly easier now.
Some people have good healthcare, some would be better off with the town witch from the Middle Ages than what they have now (read, nothing). People today are in a lot more debt than in the past, and so cannot get by without a job for any length of time. They have nowhere to store up food for hard times. In that sense, they are less secure than before (a factor in mental health to be certain).
People tend to have less roots in the community than before (if any). Even Gypsys had more since their whole community moved around with them. Another mental health factor.
I wasn't trying to be mean, or to get you riled up.
Economics really is a religion of sorts, a series of overlapping schools of thought and rationalized theories.
People who give sermons about this economist or that making future predictions usually don't add anything to the discussion.
I see problems, failed predictions, bad statistics, and lack of fundamentals in pretty-much every economic theory I come across.
Question: According to Irwin Schiff, what is the best value for inflation?
I don't mean "a little is good, a lot is bad, and negative is very bad", I mean what numeric value is the best value to have in our economy?
If the answer is "it depends", then what's the formula? What are the dependencies?
That's a fundamental, basic premise of economics. All throughout Schiff's writings, he talks about inflation: how the government uses it, how the fed controls it, and how it affects our lives.
But he never sets down in clear text: this is the value it *should* be.
Why is that?
BTW, Schiff is that guy who claimed that there was no law requiring people to pay income taxes.
How'd that work out for him?
Looking at all the seasoned, unemployable old folks on this thread gets me wondering...
Why don't we all get together and form a company?
We've got lots of time, modern resources allow us to telecommute and collaborate. Running a business isn't that hard(*).
Lots and lots of people have ideas for companies. (Heck, I have a dozen ideas for products each year, I know lots of people who do, and I know where to go looking for product ideas.)
Why don't we put our heads together and do something productive with our time?
(*) Tedious, yes. Boring, definitely. But not especially hard.
Given that SSRIs are known to sometimes (for reasons unknown) cause suicidal ideation where there was none before, and the way we tend to hand those out like candy, I would say those are far more likely than the opiates to be causing a rise in suicide.
I'm currently exploring the theory that a) there are 4 forms of depression, each caused by low levels of one category of neurotransmitter, and b) the first form is caused by low serotonin.
My working theory is that SSRI's sometimes fail because either a) the depression is due to a different transmitter, and/or b) SSRI's won't help if you have little or no serotonin to begin with.
This could be why SSRI's sometimes increase the chances of suicide. The cure would be for the patient to make more serotonin, not to interfere with its proper workings.
Another form of depression is from low dopamine. The two types are similar, but can be distinguished. Serotonin is the "happy" transmitter, and low levels are associated with dark moods and suicide, while dopamine is the "reward" transmitter, so low levels are associated with tiredness, low energy, and the feeling that tasks are pointless.
I suspect that a survey or questionnaire could be used to identify the particular type of depression a person has, and given the results lead to a specific treatment of one of the transmitters.
I'm still researching, but this one proposed mechanism seems to explain a lot of things in the literature. Most notably, that depression appears to be a resource depletion disease.
US: 1-800-273-8255 is a 24/7 suicide prevention hotline, which also advises people dealing with a suicidal loved one or friend.
http://www.suicide.org/interna...
For US active duty military and veterans:
Veteran's Crisis Line:
1800-273-8255
Press 1
or text 838255
confidential chat available at: www.veteranscrisisline.net
Specifically for support of trans* people, http://www.translifeline.org/ has a US hotline number +18775658860 and a Canadian toll-free number +18773306366.
For LGBT teenagers and young adults, http://www.thetrevorproject.or.... They also have a hotline number, 866-488-7386.
If you're a friend or bystander, these are relevant.
Suicide threats on social media:
http://www.suicidepreventionli...
If you're in the US this is a guide to reaching emergency services outside your own area: http://firstaid.about.com/od/c...
Immediate steps you can take: http://www.helpguide.org/artic...
Go buy some cheap land. Grow your own food. I tried it because I had nothing to do for a few months and haven't been back to work in ten years. It's fun and challenging and you learn a lot of new things, meet a lot more people, have free time all day and night, breath clean air, no stress, good food and it's almost free. Just do it or stop complaining and looking for reasons why you can't. per aspera ad astra
The reason is not so complicated. Money, wealth, and resources are being redistributed upward to the 1%. The middle class dwindles and people watch their savings and investments become worthless so it is no wonder that we are seeing an increase in suicide. The US has a real mental health crisis on its hands.
Ding, ding, ding! We got a winner over here. Moral of the story, kids: FINISH THE FUCKING HIGH SCHOOL.
what's your opinion of the idea that a large amount of diagnosed depression is actually just sickness behavior due to chronic inflammation from to dietary or environmental allergens?
Hear! Hear!
And once you get in to health care and insurance, even a simple question, fundamental to every other financial transaction, "What does this do and what will it cost" is a nightmare journey through bizarre alternate realities which ultimately comes down to you'll have to sign here and agree to pay in order to find out how much. Even when you do pay, nobody can actually swear that there won't be any more surprise bills. And BTW, even if it's an unmitigated disaster, you will be expected to pay in full.
Add to it the health care system that denies good health care to anyone that can't afford it.
If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
Most expensive land is urban or suburban. Desert and other useless land miles from nowhere is almost free. Fertile land is more expensive, but undeveloped land in e.g. Indiana is under $4000 per acre.
Tractors for a small plot are the sort of thing you buy at Home Depot for $1500.
If you've got a cushion of money to ride on and are only trying to meet expenses and feed yourself, a couple of acres of intensely farmed land suffices.
Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
Stop distorting history. Slave states wanted slaves to be prevented from voting but still be counted toward presidential election clout. The 3/5 compromise was a way to tell slavers "you're not getting away with that."
Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
The firearms became much more reliable with the computer design and advances in chemistry. For example, cartridges are waxed what makes jamming extinct. Besides, guns look cute as never before, are more portable and affordable.
Physical movement outdoors engineered out from life. A person gets to the garage by an elevator, sits in traffic while driving to the office, again uses elevator, sits in the office chair, etc. Walking, running, swimming, working outdoors is what we were created for by the evolution. The vitamins of the air, sights of monuments of nature seem to be much more important for the mental health than it was thought before.
Obama opposed the pipeline from Canada so that his contributor Warren Buffet could keep shipping by rail and trucks (!). Looks like the oil industry lost on that one.
Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
As opposed to a government healthcare system that denies good healthcare to everyone.
Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
That's a myth, but it might take some time in some cases that aren't urgent.
If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
SSRI can cause suicides because the way they start to work - it usually takes several weeks for them to begin suppressing the mood part of the depression, but the lack of drive goes away much earlier. Many depressed people, especially younger ones, are only held back from the suicide by the avolition caused by the said depression.
I personally was very lucky - SSRI has worked from day one for me. Although for the first 6 weeks its suppression of my depression was very fragile - as long as nothing triggering it came up I was fine, but if something happened that would hurt my feelings the depression came back in full force. Now, after 5 months, and augmented by a NDRI I just don't give a shit about this kind of stuff anymore.
From my personal experience I also don't think your hypothesis about persons with very low serotonin levels wouldn't be helped with SSRI is wrong. When serotonin levels are low, the sensitivity of serotonin receptors becomes very high, so even a low dose of SSRI can send a person from their depression straight into a hypomania (and yep, that happened to me on the very first day. I was high and giggly on just 25 mg of sertraline, the half of the usual starter dosage).
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
The rise in suicide in women means important people might actually give a shit. Male suicide is our own fault for not smashing the patriarchy or something.
Immediately, when I saw those figures, I opened the comment page and searched the page for "white privilege". Thank you.
I'm sure this report made loads of people feel much better.
At the bottom of the
I love Canadian health care. I have to wait longer then Americans do from time to time and it can get frustrating, but it works and it's nice knowing I can walk into any hospital, any clinic in the country and be seen just by showing a health card. Very rarely, there is a requirement to go to the US but usually those trips are paid for if there is a medical reason. A lot of people who complain just want to be seen faster, but they're not really taking into account what they would give up in the name of being seen faster.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Do you suppose that there is a form of depression that is somehow treated by opiates?
I think that might actually explain why some people are able to take pain medication for its prescribed purpose and not fall into patterns of addiction, while others are easily addicted and can't stop. Those who are able to use it as prescribed don't have whatever imbalance leads leads to easy addiction, those who are easily addicted have an imbalance it somehow addresses.
There's probably a third category, people with no meaningful imbalance who for other reasons engage in long-term misuse and somehow create an imbalance, too. I've read interviews with some addicts who describe getting addicted as "hard work" that required a long period of high dose usage before they developed an addiction.
I also think it's somewhat curious how people who get on maintenance treatments (like methadone or buprenorphine) describe it as "feeling normal" as if the measured and low maintenance doses were acting something like an anti-depressant, constructively addressing the imbalance.
I've also often wondered if some of the value pain medication delivers is from the psychological euphoria of opiates, distinct from any pain blocking aspects of it. If they somehow developed a pain killer that lacked the euphoria that it would end up being considered less effective because it lacked the mood elevating aspect of opiates.
It would turn out to be kind of interesting if they were able to develop an anti-depressant that somehow stimulated opiate receptors but somehow was free of the spiraling effects of addiction.
Globalization has opened doors. These doors allow the misery of other third world nations to flow into the US. All are affected except of course for the wealthy who had the good sense to stand out of the way as they opened them.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Same for that "Disable Advertising". I check its box, and it doesn't stay! Thanks God for ad blockers.
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
- Much of the population is getting older and probably lonelier, with little retirement savings
- Families are very important for support yet people feel they must move away from that support structure in pursuit of a career
- The places where there are 'plentiful jobs' are becoming much more condensed; people must move where living is expensive and far away from work
- People run to the empty promise of social media to keep them connected and then find out social media really isn't a replacement for actual socializing
- Social media and technology in general has given bullies and mental abusers a much louder voice with a further reach
- We are losing anything to look forward to in the workplace. There used to be something called a career but today people pretty much hit their cap at 25, in fact you've won the lottery if you make it to 40 without getting laid off and having to start over.
- Life has been crowded out by work and long commutes. Working long hours used to be for people who were after a six figure salary. Today working long hours means you keep your job.
- The economy sucks, despite the fact that we are being told it doesn't.
- Changes on the horizon such as the sharing economy threaten to make the economy suck even more. What we are headed for something more than a depression economically speaking. We are headed for pure misery for 60% of the population.
- Most of the promises that America makes that keeps people vital.. promises like 'work hard and you can get ahead' and the 'american dream' are now apparently a bunch of meaningless lies. America only remains a truth for the wealthy. Everyone else is being sold down the river as the country ushers in cheap labor alternatives. We thought we had a better quality of life then the average person from India but now we are funding out there is no national interest in sustaining any of it.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Because America rewards large egos, and not solutions to problems.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
I notice the increase in suicides closely corresponds with Dice buying /.
With what I've seen of how "SlashdotMedia" is horribly managing things, I expect that number is currently climbing even more.
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
"Both Trump and Sanders don't use money from super PACs" That is extremely misleading. No candidate uses money form super PACs as that is not how a super PAC works. Their are loads of super PACs that support sanders, he has no say in the matter, there is loads of rich people who are democratic socialists, so there is loads of money that is going to be spent on behalf of any serious contender in that area (I have heard it stated that Sanders has more super PAC money behind him than any other candidate, but I have doubts about the truth of such claims). I am sure Trump has some support as well, but for the most part the establishment seems to stay far away from him.
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
As long as you look for problems and not answers, you will fail.
The present day is an anomaly, in other words. It will fall back to the norm. Particularly if people let it, or worse, want it to.
I was totally with you until you started talking about the jooooos. You should be praising the Jewish hospitals for being up front and transparent.
We told you the consequences of systemd would be dire but did you listen? NooooOOOOooo. ;)
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
What's terrifying about this approach is that it denies the quality of life issues at the heart of many depression cases. A person can be depressed because of feeling isolated, extreme guilt or unworthiness, having no purpose in life that suits their nature, or some form of emotional trauma. Chemicals will only distract from the actual healing that can only take place by slow, progressive inner work and finding the courage to change their life circumstances. The solution to depression can very often be found *within* the person, not somewhere "out there" in drug form. Drugs will only mask symptoms while the real disease remains festering beneath the surface, waiting for the moment to spring in a sudden ugly rampage that can easily lead to suicide (the real reason people on medications do this).
I speak from experience because I suffered from extreme depression for 20 years, tried desperately to fix it with chemicals, almost killed myself (more than once), and finally said fuck it, I'm figuring this out on my own. Turns out, no chemicals needed. A shitload of courage, faith in myself and my friends/family, and a daily, long-term unwavering persistence did the job. Knowing that you have the ability to fix your own problems goes a long way towards giving you the power to do so. Enforcing the idea that a person is inherently "broken", that they're depressed because their chemicals are out of whack, makes them feel like a victim and offers no real hope for healing. In fact, it's an insult to the human soul.
Life is way more than just a series of chemical reactions.
"Molest me not with this pocket calculator stuff."
- Deep Thought
Respect Matters More Than Money for Happiness in Life
http://www.psychologicalscienc...
Casteism
Sure, there's situational depression, and I'm not sure we've got meds for that. There's also depression that's not about anything, which is something some people just didn't understand, and the meds do well in those cases.
Exactly what does chemical imbalance have to do with feeling broken or like a victim? My heart attack didn't make me feel that way, and the fact that I got excellent treatment and am on meds for it doesn't make me feel like there's no real hope. I really don't think it would have been better to tough it out or something.
Similarly, if I've got a chemical imbalance in my brain, my first impulse is to see if I can get that taken care of somehow or other, not to try to compensate in a half-assed manner. There was still a lot of work I had to do to get out of depression, but I wasn't being held back by my brain chemistry while doing it.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
How interesting that the further we get away from our God the higher the unhappiness and the greater the suicide rate.
My vehemence comes from seeing depressed folks prescribed medications when it is not at all clear that they actually need it. And their healing and overall life possibilities are hampered as a result. I have one friend who committed suicide while on meds due to a badly thought-out prescription -- this after months of work on his personal problems and cleaning up his alcoholism.
I did not mean to imply that this is true for everyone, or for you. My apologies if it sounded that way. I'm sure there are valid cases for prescription meds, I'm just against the blanket approach of solving all mental/emotional problems with drugs.
What I mean is, if someone with depression is told by someone with entrusted authority that their mental/emotional problems are due to a physical disruption that cannot be fixed, but only medicated with drugs, it leaves that person feeling dependent on the drug. Their healing is no longer in their own hands. I'm certainly not talking about every case, but I believe folks can heal depression (and other mental health issues) without drugs far more often than is normally realized. It has not to do with "fixing" the problem but giving it the right expression, turning it from enemy to ally. We can learn much from what we cast as abnormal.
"Molest me not with this pocket calculator stuff."
- Deep Thought
Keeping your shit together and having a good idea what is going on in the world at the same time, is almost impossible unless you have already run out of fucks to give.
The cold, hard fact is that drugs are cheap and talk therapy is expensive, which is why drugs are much easier to get than talk therapy. I'd say that pretty much everyone with serious depression should have talk therapy and be evaluated to see if that person would benefit from the meds. I wasn't clicking with any of the therapists in my HMO, so I went outside and found someone who worked for me. It was pretty expensive, even with partial insurance coverage. I'm fortunate in that my wife and I earn a lot of money, since I was able to afford what I needed.
So, I think we're in general agreement here on the use of meds for depression, although it appears I'd rather err on prescribing something and seeing what happens and you'd err on the opposite side. Also, I don't understand what you really mean by finding a different expression for depression that's actually positive.
I've had other medical conditions I needed help with, such as my heart attack. I don't see my depression any differently. Depression is usually temporary (mine isn't, but I'm managing it pretty well), and it doesn't seem that much different from the last round of antibiotics I had. Certainly a doctor should tell the patient that this is probably temporary.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
You're right about talk therapy being expensive. I consider myself lucky -- I had the right people, teachers, helpers that could see what was going on for me and give me the appropriate advice, hug or kick in the ass, without having to pay through the nose for their services. If only we lived in a more humane society! But then I think human consciousness creates conditions like depression to teach us how to be more collectively humane (pardon the Schopenhauer-ian digression).
Of course it's not like I consider myself "cured" -- but what I mean about making depression positive is to look at it as a teaching ally. What sort of depth does depression give you? How does it make you more able to empathize with others? How has it forced you to become stronger and wiser? That's different from morbidly attaching to depression as your identity, obviously not healthy. But not everything that's good for us pleases us, and I find being fierce with myself about seeing the good in what's going on for me helps a great deal in improving my life.
"Molest me not with this pocket calculator stuff."
- Deep Thought