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Mozilla Seeks New Home For Email Client Thunderbird
Reader chefmonkey writes: In a report commissioned by Mozilla to explore the next home for Thunderbird, two potential new hosts have been offered: the Software Freedom Conservancy (host to git, boost, QEMU, and a host of other projects) and The Document Foundation (home of LibreOffice). At the same time, the report discusses completely uncoupling Thunderbird from the rest of the Mozilla codebase and bringing in a dedicated technical architect to chart the software's roadmap.
Given that the two named organizations are already on board with taking Thunderbird under their wing, is this a new lease on life for the email program Mozilla put out to pasture four years ago?In December last year, Mozilla Foundation chairperson Mitchell Baker had argued that the organization should disentangle itself from the Thunderbird email client in order to focus on Firefox. It appears the Firefox-maker is all set to part ways with Thunderbird.
Given that the two named organizations are already on board with taking Thunderbird under their wing, is this a new lease on life for the email program Mozilla put out to pasture four years ago?In December last year, Mozilla Foundation chairperson Mitchell Baker had argued that the organization should disentangle itself from the Thunderbird email client in order to focus on Firefox. It appears the Firefox-maker is all set to part ways with Thunderbird.
It appears the Firefox-maker is all set to part ways with Thunderbird.
That's interesting, because I'm all set to part ways with Firefox.
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
Let it be freeee!
It appears the Firefox-maker is all set to part ways with Thunderbird.
And nothing of Thunderbird was Firefox.
FLOSST in the sauce.
How about if BOTH the people still using Thunderbird split the maintenance chores between the two of them?
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
I know I do not! What am I missing?
I know there's a lot of Firefox-hate at the moment (with some good reason), but I use Firefox as my web-browser of choice on Android. Why? Adblock. No other mobile browser has add-ons like Firefox. And the ability to block ads really speeds up the browser compared to Chrome in any real-world situation.
Then hopefully Thunderbird doesn't get all the shit UI crap that's ruined Firefox.
Thank "Bob" for Pale Moon !!!
Firefox is about as usable as a dead dogs dick these days.
Mozilla knows that only apps can app apps, which is why they're apping Appfox instead of LUDDITE Thunderbird!
Apps!
When quotes like this start appearing in your bug tracking, it's time to go:
"This is complicated because it requires support from the Mozilla build team, but they are not tasked to do anything new for Thunderbird, only maintain the old."
I'm about 10 years past using email clients. I would have to guess most of this audience is, too.
Compared to gmail accessed via web, email clients offer slower startup, higher bug count, inferior search tools, a crazily confusing configuration burden, create a deep disincentive to access email from any machine but your own, a centrifugal bumble-puppy model for where your emails reside that can be relied upon to place the emails "on the wrong machine" (or none at all, or N-fold on each of M machines) when you need it most, and they bifurcate your message store when you change jobs or ISPs, etc. Moreover, I am spared the horrors of the aged hacks and platform-bound kludgery intended to address the above faults (e.g., IMAP or whatever Office thinks it provides).
Email clients are the landlines of the 2010s.
tone
tone
Whatever you do, please don't let Thunderbird fall into the hands of buzzword spewing fools.
Give it to The Document Foundation! I'd be quite interested to see what they could do with it. A Linux mail client with their power behind it would be a great thing.
CAPTCHA: bartered
But now I use SeaMonkey for eMail .
It has the added advantage of being a browser as well
Are they going to drop SeaMonkey too?
Thunderbird?
I'm more of a Night Train man myself...
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
I haven't used Thunderbird for a few years, but... it always seemed to me to be the best IMAP client out there - doubly so if you had more than one IMAP email account, which has been the case for me.
But while Mozilla hasn't mucked up Thunderbird to the same degree they have Firefox, a couple years back I decided to cut ties with any and all Mozilla products because of all Mozilla's little political and philosophical dramas.
#DeleteChrome
Email clients are the landlines of the 2010s.
tone
I miss landlines. No drop outs and higher quality sound.
I still use an email client. I'm certainly not going to use a "free" mail account from a shady company like google. I only access my mail from my own machine, have no idea why I might keep around so much email that I need a search function but that's easy to do since my email is only plain text. My emails always reside on my one machine, I don't have to remove them from the server if I don't want to.... but I do. I have my mail at my own domain name, doesn't matter if I change ISP.
I bet my mail client starts up faster than your Web browser also.
I just do things differently from you, plenty of people do.
> I would have to guess most of this audience is, too.
Going by this thread, and many others just like it, you'd be guessing poorly.
For the record, I like Thunderbird quite a bit. Opera's got an email client that I've not used in a while. The sooner Mozilla divests, the better. There's surely no one group that would not be better maintainers. It's feature complete. Leave it. Keep it maintained. Call it good. If I have to, I'll learn the damned base and maintain it myself. I'll rip out any way to browse within it and make it open your default web client when you click a link. Then I'll dump full HTML power. It's a damned email client. Plain text is fine. Want to open something? Save it and then open it. You'll adjust.
Hmm... Maybe it's time to fork it?
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
So if Mozilla gets rid of Thunderbird completely, what software will they have left that has actual users?
Firefox is the obvious one, but its users are fleeing left and right. The latest stats show Firefox is down to about 7% of the market on all platforms, across all versions.
Firefox for Android is basically not used at all. It's at 0.4% of the market. Yes, that's less than half of 1%!
Seamonkey probably has seen much less use than even Firefox for Android.
Firefox OS has probably seen much less use than even Seamonkey.
Persona never got anywhere at all.
Bugzilla is ancient tech, only used by legacy users.
Servo is a joke. Even for an "experimental" rendering engine, it's damn near useless.
Rust is nothing but hype. Its only major user so far has been Mozilla, and some high schoolers who tried it out on a weekend and put their mostly-incomplete libraries on GitHub to rot.
So with Thunderbird out of the picture, and their other software seeing minimal to no use, Mozilla will pretty much have no user base once the remaining Firefox users flee.
How do they expect to get lucrative search details when next to nobody is using their products?
How do they propose to survive as an organization with limited incoming funds?
People are using email clients all the time, that email client on your phone is using imap to communicate to your mail storage on gmail. I see very few people using their phone's browser to login to the mobile version of any webmail. I see phone specific native clients in wide use. Gmail's webclient is very good, but for certain use cases a dedicated client works better. And since gmail provides standard imap access, thunderbird works with it just fine.
Email client software is far from dead, and it would be nice to keep thunderbird alive.
I'm about 10 years past using email clients. I would have to guess most of this audience is, too.
The /. audience are generally nerds who understand how IT systems work, value their privacy and security, and know better than to entrust the security of their personal data to third parties with a financial stake in violating that privacy. We are not the Facebook generation, content to upload all of the inane, boring details of our private lives onto corporate servers for the benefit of mass surveillance and data mining. Anybody concerned with privacy and security doesn't leave their entire life's email history sitting on some third party's servers, ready to be harvested by hackers or government agencies at the next opportunity. You might was well start storing all of your personal finances, pictures, and documents on "the cloud" unencrypted too.
Compared to gmail accessed via web...
Great, if you only have one email account. I'm a student, so I have an official university email address that they insist upon using for all correspondence. I'm also an employee, so that's another email account. I have a gmail account for some personal stuff. I also have another free email account. I have an email address on the virtual server that I rent. Each of these accounts has its own web mail interface, different from the others.
With Thunderbird, I can combine all five email accounts into one common interface, so I can send and receive email while keeping my accounts segregated. I know I can forward all of these accounts to a single account, but I prefer to keep them separate for a variety of reasons.
Google wants to eliminate competition to gmail.
They still need browsers to make people access gmail, search and docs.
So they only pay for firefox to Mozilla.
Folks, it is time to create an alternative to the traditional web and email. Drop smtp, build something new. Defeat spam using captchas. Rethink the monster HTMLCSSJS has become. Make the RPI the reference platform; work against the insance JS trend.
Compared to gmail accessed via web, email clients offer slower startup,
In which world?
higher bug count
I'd suppose it depends which ones are you comparing.
inferior search tools
That might well be, it's not a feature I use much.
A crazily confusing configuration burden
It's clear that you are about 10 years past using email clients. You'll be happy to know that nowadays, just giving your address usually autoconfigure server options.
, create a deep disincentive to access email from any machine but your own,
True, but that I consider an advantage, except sometimes. For these sometimes, there is the smartphone. Also, a thing colled Thunderbird portable, where you can have your email in an USB stick that you carry with you, may be useful.
The rest of the rambling I don't fully comprehend. But I'll now state my dislikes of web based clients.
- Lack of autonomy. They depend on you being online. They mostly need a fast connection.
- Lack of control. They change the interface when they feel like it, and there is nothing you can do about it.
- Lack of space. Granted, the space limits are ample, but they are never enough. Not for me, at least.
- Lack of freedom. You are forced to use the mail address that they allow you, or pay for the privilege. If you want to change providers it's not easy to transfer all you messages to the new one.
- Lack of privacy. All your data, your contacts, everything is stored in the same place, for every interested party to peruse at will.
- Lack of flexibility. If you want to use several addresses from different providers, you are mostly toast.
Rome taught me patience and assiduous application to detail. Virtues which temper the boldness of great, general views.
People should send messages exclusively over 1% controlled systems !
How else can you benevolent folks expect to control the plebs ???
> Compared to gmail accessed via web, email clients offer slower startup
Why would you ever close your e-mail client other than to start the latest version with that security bug fix?
> higher bug count
TB is missing newer features like calendaring (lightning is pretty broken) I'll give you, but they haven't bugged it out with new features in years. If nothing else, TB is at least stable and mostly bugfree for the stuff it does support.
> inferior search tools
TB search worked great before we switched to Gmail as our e-mail provide. Now it's uselessly slow. But with our local e-mail server it was wonderful. Not better than Gmail search, but close to as good.
> a crazily confusing configuration burden
The only thing I can imagine you're referring to is the ability to configure multiple e-mail accounts or something. That's a feature. You can connect to whatever standards-compliant backend(s) you choose. And even some that aren't as standard's compliant as the claim to be (*cough* exchange *cough* gmail).
> create a deep disincentive to access email from any machine but your own
You mean "naturally directs users to work on personal and potentially sensitive stuff from a trusted environment instead of putting their password in to whatever keylogger-infested, malware-toting filthy keyboard and screen they happen to walk past."
> a centrifugal bumble-puppy model for where your emails reside that can be relied upon to place the emails "on the wrong machine" (or none at all, or N-fold on each of M machines) when you need it most, and they bifurcate your message store when you change jobs or ISPs, etc.
Wait...what!?!. Maybe you're still using POP and have some silly config or something, but e-mails are stored on the provider's server. We cache them on the client for speed and offline access here in 2016. Oh yea, we also cache them on the client so when you forget to make a copy before telling the man "I Quit!", you still have them all. Try doing that with Gmail.
> Moreover, I am spared the horrors of the aged hacks and platform-bound kludgery intended to address the above faults
I'll give you the "aged hacks and platform-bound kludgery", but unless you're one of the few brave souls who dares to look at the source code, I can't imagine what of those horrors you actually experience. TB works. It just doesn't do newfangled stuff like google's keyword (to:, in:) searching and calendaring.
The Mozilla Foundation has screwed everything up the had in their clutches, except Thunderbird, possibly because they lacked the money to do a number on it too. If Thunderbird gets new maintainers that actually have a clue and are not just following the latest UI-hype or waste all their money on worthless gender-related projects, it has a bright future. Firefox is dead though, and the only reason for that is incompetence and mis-management by the Mozilla Foundation leadership. Talk about wrestling failure from the clutches of success.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Main problem is that Tbird is closely related to/built on the FF core. So dropping it on somebody else means, essentially, replacing the FF underpinnings with something else. I guess maintaining Tbird in the form of rebuilding it every time FF changes (every week?) was just too much hassle - shouldn't that be instructive for the FF group too, like they're changing too much too often?
Having just had a landline repaired, it's fairly obvious that the institutional knowledge base for maintaining POTS service is decaying. I expect a digital transition in the relatively near future.
Thunderbird gives a sigh or relief from the lifeboat as it watches SS Firefox go down.
On Linux there is no substitute for Thunderbird.
It's more like on Windows there's no fully-featured and user-friendly substitute unless you got the Microsoft route (which, fair play, but many of us won't for one reason or another). On Linux there's KMail, Trojitá, Evolution, Geary . . .
I remember sigs. Oh, a simpler time!
Thunderbird is actually pretty good, and there's no real modern equivalent. The OS-supplied alternatives aren't; if they even work, which they usually don't, they're no better than webmail. Main issue is the dependency on FF itself for the Tbird core. So ... just shut down FF entirely (what else do they produce that anybody (even if not many) uses besides FF and Tbird?) and sell/donate the whole thing to somebody who might actually do it well. DocFdn has possibilities, though they're pretty much booked up with LibreOffice and its relations and probably wouldn't want the hassle of refactoring two huge code bases at the same time.
Web access is ok when you have only one email address, but when you have an address for your job/university/organisation(s) you belong to, it quickly becomes unmanageable. Not to mention many of those addresses have a bad web UI or none at all. I certainly believe you haven't used an email client in a decade, because most of the problems you mentioned have been solved long ago, at least in Thunderbird anyway. It definitely starts faster and has fewer bugs than a browser. It has a profile system like FF, allowing you to copy your configs across multiple machines. I honestly don't know what your problem with IMAP is, it addresses the issues you said and I'm yet to encounter any of its "horrors".
Maybe it will be an opportunity to have a well maintained Thunderbird, but if not, it's worrying for email. I don't want to replace email with Facebook/Whatsapp/orWhatnot.
For now, there is Apple Mail which only runs on Macs,
Outlook which only runs on Windows (and is a terrible IMAP client, probably to force you to get an Exchange server)
And Gmail which only runs on... Google. And only if you have an Internet connection.
I feel Thunderbird is essential, and hope it finds someone to take care of it.
I'm about 10 years past using email clients. I would have to guess most of this audience is, too.
Um nope.
Compared to gmail accessed via web, email clients offer slower startup,
Compared to launching a browser, clicking on your webmail bookmark, signing in, waiting for your mail to load? Or do you give webmail a headstart be prelaunching the browser? My mail client starts up just as fast as my browser does, if not faster.
higher bug count
Not really, mail is pretty mature after all, it mostly just works. But sure, it does a lot more stuff, and has capabilities the web clients simply don't have at all, so sure some of that has bugs.
, a crazily confusing configuration burden
Its mostly a case of entering your email address and password. The same as the web versions. Sure if you've got some byzantine security labyrinth to get through to check your mail then its complex to set up.
, create a deep disincentive to access email from any machine but your own,
An advantage if you care at all about security.
a centrifugal bumble-puppy model for where your emails reside that can be relied upon to place the emails "on the wrong machine" (or none at all, or N-fold on each of M machines) when you need it most,
It's on you if you aren't syncing your mail. Hell, I use Office365 with 3 different companies, and I use the desktop Outlook client.
and they bifurcate your message store when you change jobs or ISPs, etc.
Yeah, webmail doesn't change that. And if you've ever tried to migrate your mail between ISPs when all you have is webmail... well... for most of them, you need to do it with a desktop client. Gmail and Office365 have some migration tools, and they work, with some caveats... and issues usually need to be fixed with a desktop client.
Moreover, I am spared the horrors of the aged hacks and platform-bound kludgery intended to address the above faults (e.g., IMAP or whatever Office thinks it provides).
And instead have all manner of other annoying issues. Browser application window management is an outright clusterfuck, with your mail being in a browser tab mixed with your other tabs, a new message popping in a new browser window, your taskbar being completely unable to differentiate between what's your 'collection of email windows' from all your other browser and web app windows.
Its also a royal PITA to be logged into multiple accounts at the same time (2 different Its a royal PITA to copy or move multiple messages, or folders, or multiple selections between multiple accounts. And excruciating if the accounts belong to the same provider. (e.g. two different and separate google apps for enterprises accounts...or two separate office365 accounts... I practically need two separate browsers to do that. Meanwhile, both thunderbird and outlook handle it gracefully.
You also pretty much give up any pretense of encrypted/secure messaging, and expose yourself to browser xss and other browser related flaws that simply can't happen with a standalone client.
inferior search tools
This one point I agree with you. subject/sender search in thunderbird is great, but its full body search needs work. But outlook backing onto exchange/office 365 is very good; although local mail is subject to windows searchindexer which can cause problems sometimes. I'd like to see much better search / indexing come to Thunderbird... there's no inherent reason it can't do it.
Lest we forget that Phoenix -- as Firefox was originally named in an apt allusion to the state of engineering at Mozilla Foundation -- started off an agile, stripped-down browser for people wanting a less ass-raping alternative to IE that wasn't the steaming pile of bloat, ass and bugs that was Netscape 4.
Of course MF were not going to waste an opportunity to fuck something up so the proceeded to do a number on Firefox, which became the same bloated clusterfuck it replaced. MF are poison and I'm glad that something will escape their death-touch.
I'm about 10 years past using email clients. I would have to guess most of this audience is, too.
Compared to gmail accessed via web, email clients offer slower startup, higher bug count, inferior search tools, a crazily confusing configuration burden, create a deep disincentive to access email from any machine but your own, a centrifugal bumble-puppy model for where your emails reside that can be relied upon to place the emails "on the wrong machine" (or none at all, or N-fold on each of M machines) when you need it most, and they bifurcate your message store when you change jobs or ISPs, etc. Moreover, I am spared the horrors of the aged hacks and platform-bound kludgery intended to address the above faults (e.g., IMAP or whatever Office thinks it provides).
Email clients are the landlines of the 2010s.
tone
If I had only a few contacts, a single email account, and a small amount of irregular email I might share your opinion, but for now I find Gmail via a web browser as a truely awful inefficient experience.
Different folks, different use cases.
You're mad.
A local copy of your mail is the only reliable and fast way to access and especially organise mail, even more so for multiple accounts.
Webmail is nice for occasional use on a borrowed computer, for the rest it is a joke.
"The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
They need to just integrate some of the already available cloud calendars.
The problem with cloud calendars are just how many of them there are.
- You might be using Google Calendars.
- But your friends organise your group's events over facebook
- And your local pen and paper RPG club coordinates over doodle.
- Then your work uses an MS-Exchange server
- and there's a couple of RDF-exported calendar you need to take into account too.
In this context: you DEFINITELY need 1 single calendar platform that is able to coordinate between all the above.
Palm's (then later HP's) webOS with its Synergy concept was absolutely marvelous from that point of view for smartphones)
(Jolla's Sailfish OS is the closest thing I've found as a successor for smartphones)
For desktop, LightningBird is a good candidate, once all the quirck have been ironed out (and some of the most important plugins included as a standard).
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
"Anybody concerned with privacy and security doesn't leave their entire life's email history sitting on some third party's servers"
Well, not intentionally at least.
As a retired *nix/M$ admin, I use Mutt on everything and roundcube from the occasional browser. I have all the family members that want my support (and aren't already using gmail) on Thunderbird with an auto archiving plugin enabled. At least that way they aren't bombarded by constant Yahoo ads and flash animations etc.
That's a great point that a surprising number of people, especially those in the industry, seem to be missing.
There is so much personal information in e-mail, and yet it is not only unencrypted, but happily data mined and collated into neat little marketing portfolios for sale.
This might be a good fit.
For Windows I found eM Client to be the best alternative to Thunderbird (IMAP) with Lightning (CalDAV) and SOGo Connector (CardDAV). For Mac I just use Mac Mail (IMAP), Mac Contacts (CardDAV), and Mac Calendar (CalDAV). I actually like the Mac combo the best, if you use Mac Mail with a good IMAP server, you don't have any issues. I like how fast the Mac Mail search is, and it will even index text inside PDF and DOC attachments (Outlook being the only other desktop client I know that does this).
I've used Thunderbird a long time, and want to continue. I'd rather Mozilla give it away than do what they did to Firefox. I like LibreOffice, but I would kind of prefer Thunderbird be stand alone. Maybe I'm crazy.
The first emails were text-only. Then at some point email became a much more versatile communication tool, because we gained the ability to embed images. (When did that happen? I'm guessing about 24 years ago.)
Now, we are long overdue for email clients that let you easily embed video. I'm not talking about
- linking to a video file hosted on some third-party server, or
- video file attachments, or
- having to figure out usage of ungainly templates,
but the convenience of honest-to-goodness embedded videos: when composing messages, the client lets you embed video just as easily as it allows you to embed images. The video data is stored only on the email server until the recipient retrieves the message, and can be played back right in their email client. Nothing appears in their "Downloads" folder, and nothing is handed off to Windows Media Player, or QuickTime Player, or (if using a standalone email client such as Thunderbird) a web browser.
Maybe the free webmail providers are opposed, because it would jack up their storage costs. But that's no reason to cripple the possibilities. They could make it an optional feature for paying members, until the cost of storing embedded videos becomes trivial (as happened long ago to the cost of storing embedded images).
What would it take to make this a reality... RFCs to add to existing email protocols? Or just convincing developers of email clients (like Thunderbird) to add the functionality?
That that is is that that that that is not is not.
I've used Thunderbird from its inception on Linux. It works, and why shouldn't something as simple as e-mail always work? Sure, you can throw some GUI into the mix, but the protocol is very simple. Even code.org people could write an email client (Well, maybe not).
The lapse in Mozilla support for Thunderbird since 2012 has been frustrating and saddening to me. I've used Thunderbird (with its Lightning calendaring and Enigmail for OpenPGP/GnuPG, among other extensions) since just about its inception and I still do today. It has always been the only cross platform and open source, user focused/privacy respecting, newbie-to-guru accessible, full featured and extensible email/PIM client I've found.
Unfortunately , I admit that its age has begun to show since Mozilla stopped funding and focusing upon it. For instance, the lack of support for two-factor authentication for many services (which I believe has been sorted recently, perhaps?), as well as being unable to keep up with some of the newer features in popular webmail clients. One use case I hear frequently is regarding Gmail. Awhile ago, Gmail implemented the options for pre-filtered category-based inboxes, separate from Labels (ie Priority, Updates, Promotions and Sales, etc..) but Thunderbird even when connecting via IMAP can't easily support this feature. This seems like something for which a solution could be created, either as an extension or (preferably) a native Gmail support feature (much like how Thunderbird automatically knows the Gmail account servers for SMTP/IMAP and the like) ,if there was only some funding/drive to do so. Likewise, supporting new generations of encrypted mail services, such as Tutanota and (especially) ProtonMail, are currently missing. These services claim to be built in such a way that you have to either connect via their special app or webmail because of how they handle encryption. I don't want to be forced into using webmail or some sort of app for each provider, but those behind these services hypothesize that at very least there could be an addon/plugin of some sort that would allow for more comprehensive encryption. These are just a few of the places that Thunderbird should shine, but instead is being left behind.
It seems that Mozilla has made a handful of positive steps recently (ie - embedding a cut-down version of the open source Disconnect addon into Firefox's private browsing, Firefox Hello etc..) but they've been stumbling back through a larger share of negative ones, including leaving Thunderbird to rot. Mozilla became a pinnacle of geek friendly yet accessible FLOSS because it offered some great, user focused software with better features as well as privacy/security compared to other offerings - they have to do more than allow Google to lead the way, providing halfassed "also-rans" .
I will support Mozilla as we need their voice when it comes to an open Internet. We must urge them to keep pushing forward, remember what made their software great, including modernizing and bringing Thunderbird to the forefront again.
Seems like there's been an awful lot of hate exploding against the Mozilla folks lately, and it seems that a lot of it is politically motivated. Politics aside, there have certainly been missteps, but Firefox has worked well and I don't have much to complain about. I'm not especially happy about the recent bloat (I've never once used Pocket, for instance), but at least it has stayed out of my way.
Well, what do I switch to, then, haters? Do you have a better solution? I need a browser that offers this:
* A rich selection of add-ons (adblock and script controls are security features these days, and there are other useful extensions I use)
* Cross-platform (I use Windows, Linux desktops, and Android)
* Open source (even if I never have occasion to build or modify the browser, I want to be able to)
* Address bar is separate from the search bar (when I type in an intranet URL, I don't want a search query going out, FFS)
* Performs well enough for me (I've never seen the horrible performance that some people allege)
If someone comes up with something significantly better and offers all of the above, I'd consider giving it a try, but for now I'll stick with Firefox.
As for Thunderbird, I'm glad to see it being picked up... yes it works, but there are a few things that have long needed fixing (like the mystery progress bar on IMAP accounts).
Oh, no! You have walked into the slavering fangs of a lurking grue!
Get your do-nothing, grubby hands off of Thunderbird and give it to someone that will do something with it. Meanwhile, I can totally ditch Firefox since you now not only want to make it a visual clone of Chrome but an actual clone of Chrome by just using their code base.
What a fucking disappointment you have become, Mozilla.
When was the last time you didn't have a browser window open? For me, maybe 2002. No need to use a bookmark either, just type the first couple letters of the domain in the address bar and let it autocomplete.
Personally I use both webmail and kmail though -- the former for personal use and the latter for work.
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When was the last time you didn't have a browser window open?
About the same time I didn't have my email client open. (Usually for the first few seconds after a reboot.) So yeah, they're both open about 100% of the time. so the advantage goes to the mail client, becuase its easier to find mail windows; since they're a separate icon and group on the dock/taskbars.
No need to use a bookmark either, just type the first couple letters of the domain in the address bar and let it autocomplete.
True, but that's not "faster".
I think we can all agree 5 years ago Mozilla was running on all eight cylinders. Today the engine is seizing up and I think Mozilla's troubles started back when it made the decision to move to a rapid upgrade sequence for Firefox. Then you had all the distractions with management, developing a mobile OS, losing Google's revenue cash cow, and totally pissing off even many loyal users of Firefox who jumped ship to Chrome. Thunderbird certainly has been ignored at Mozilla so I hope it finds a good home. Yet, like Pale Moon this will end up a project that has it's future dependent on lot's of volunteers.
It would seem there's an app for Android called Firefox that is not related to the web browser called Firefox from the Mozilla foundation.
Outsourcing Firefox would make it easier to maintain and improve Thunderbird.
Mozilla used to a be a good client and my #1 choice for mail but Mozilla/FF/Foundation screwed it up terribly. The gui became a nightmare with a lot of wasted screen space so after stupid bars and unused spaces my email would be in a postage stamp in the bottom right corner. What was worst was the arrogance of the developers at the time. It was a great client and they killed it.
Still using FF but it's days are numbered.
lightning is pretty broken
Lightning has worked just fine for me for years and years. I don't recall ever having a problem with it.
TB search worked great before we switched to Gmail as our e-mail provide. Now it's uselessly slow. But with our local e-mail server it was wonderful. Not better than Gmail search, but close to as good.
I run my own mail server and access it via imap. TB search works great for me. I don't find it slow at all considering that it's searching through about 12GB of mail.
> create a deep disincentive to access email from any machine but your own
You mean "naturally directs users to work on personal and potentially sensitive stuff from a trusted environment instead of putting their password in to whatever keylogger-infested, malware-toting filthy keyboard and screen they happen to walk past."
Also this person seems to think that running something like thunderbird means you can't also have webmail for those (rare) times when you actually need it. But not understanding how email (and in particular IMAP) works will cause these misconceptions.
TB works. It just doesn't do newfangled stuff like google's keyword (to:, in:) searching and calendaring.
TB's search is better in my experience. It has a nice search gui which allows me to specify things like "to address contains" or "to address is". I can also easily do more complex searches like "from address contains x and subject is y and date is between a and b"
As mentioned above I've had no problem with lightning for calendaring.
Another thing people seem to be neglecting in this whole "client versus webmail" discussion is the excellent support gmail has for using gpg. Oh, wait, I'm thinking of enigmail for thunderbird. But I suppose if you think webmail is a good thing then you're not concerned with a little thing like security.
I do have to say that Gmail's 'throw everything in a bucket and sort with labels' method is actually quite nice. When an email can fit into several categories it is nice not to need to pick just one as with hierarchical storage.
You would think, but they need a reason to update the version number.
Thunderbird is the best and most unique and useful thing they do. Firefox has unfortunately become an also-ran. If anyone at Mozilla is listening, that is.
Go-to email client back when I used a client. Ever since I started running my own mail server, found it much easier to just use a webmail client (Roundcube). And have been forced into Outlook (webmail) for work so, unfortunately there's not much of a place for it these days as far as my use goes. Wasn't a bad application though, and definitely would use it under any other circumstance. Would be interesting to see it leave Mozilla.
Thank you. I was beginning to think I was the only one left with that philosophy. And here's a heresy the cloud fans will hate me for: I do not check email when I leave the office! Why should I be *permanently* enslaved by the cloud? If something is really urgent, anyone who needs it has my phone number and can call me. (The younger people I work with often find my attitude in that regard, at best, quaint! Win! ) Work / life balance and all that.
Common interface. Keeping the email addresses separated but in one client as TBird does is great. I work for 4 companies each with its own email address for me and of course my own company and private emails. TBird keeps all in line. I am a fan. Just like student above, except I have been doing this on M$ and *nix boxes for a long time as I am 6 decades past student days,
Regards Eion MacDonald
Sincerely,
NoBugz Software Inc.
I would certainly deeply appreciate an email client other than Outlook!
Self-importance and self-indulgence is the root of ALL evil.
The new home should be with the document foundation. Integrating TB with LO will be awesome and I expect the folks at TDF to be more interested in building something people want to use as well as have more technical skill to fix the fundamental issues such as lack of sharing a profile across systems and inability to connect to an Exchange server out of the box. Include Lightning as personal calendar and add a shared calendar and we have a great alternative to MSO in the enterprise.