Apple Has First Earnings Decline In More Than A Decade (go.com)

An anonymous reader writes: Apple has announced its first-ever decline in revenue in the past 13 years as its iPhone sales have slowed down. Apple posted quarterly revenue of $50.6 billion and quarterly net income of $10.5 billion. Last year, the company posted revenue of $58 billion and net income of $13.6 billion. The reason Apple has been so successful is because of the iPhone, which was first released in 2007. What goes up must come down -- and we're starting to see that now. The success of the iPhone is starting plateau and ultimately decrease now that consumers are finding less of a reason to upgrade to the latest and greatest smartphone. Apple CEO Tim Cook pointed to weakening currencies worldwide as one of the obstacles the company would face as iPhone sales were up less than 1 percent year-over-year last quarter. Gene Munster, managing director and senior research analyst at Piper Jaffray, told ABC News, "This has been anticipated for three months now. The reason is nothing [that] is wrong with the iPhone." Munster said this is not worrisome to Apple and that iPhone sales will likely increase by the end of the year when the next iPhone(s) is released.

Comments

Without Steve Jobs

[tomhath]

Apple is living on borrowed time. They need to come out with something disruptive, but all they can do is incremental upgrades.

Re:Without Steve Jobs

[Anonymous Coward]

This is probably true. However, the broad market is down across the board. Everyone seems to be warning except banks. That is not a good sign.

Re:Without Steve Jobs

[macs4all]

Apple is living on borrowed time. They need to come out with something disruptive, but all they can do is incremental upgrades.

I guess it IS time to haul out the old Tagline:

"Apple: Proudly going out of business for Forty years..."

Re:Without Steve Jobs

[Noah Haders]

You mean like a car?

Re:Without Steve Jobs

[malditaenvidia]

What about... an iPhone that is too big for your pocket and cannot make phone calls!

Re:Without Steve Jobs

[Anonymous Coward]

Given that one of the reasons Apple Maps is entirely useless is that the directions it gives include going the wrong way down one-way streets and driving off overpasses onto the road they pass over, Apple's self-driving car is a disaster in waiting. That's ignoring things like, while supporting displaying traffic, the routing software ignores traffic when generating routes.

The #1 reason Android Auto is considered vastly superior to CarPlay is that it can get you where you're going.

That Apple Car is going to be hilarious right up until the point when it kills a family. Then it's still going to be hilarious but in a very macabre way.

Re:Without Steve Jobs

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, they were. They had the Apple 2, which was there only selling product for years. Then Jobs came back just as the company was about to hit bankruptcy, the really were going out of business. But that time it was finally the right idea at the right time. The idiot friendly PC was a useless idea in the 80's, and perfect for 1999. Just like the i-phone was perfect for 2007.

But now the guy with the ideas, good or bad, is gone, and there's an accountant in charge. And like Ballmer with Microsoft, he might be good at making profit margins go up, but is going to clearly miss whatever big thing is a hit next.

Could be worse though, Apple could have Satya Nadella as a CEO.

Re: Without Steve Jobs

[Divebus]

The Apple Watch thing, first generation, first try which sold $6billion worth? Rolex only sold $4.5billion worth of watches. And Apple is the failure? Someone needs perspective.

Re:Without Steve Jobs

[Wild_dog!]

I can expand my RAM on my iMac.
Don't need more internal drives. I have a 3 TB internal.

Eventually I might need a better machine, so I will buy one.

Kind of like I used to do when wanted a faster better Linux box. I'd build one.

I love my apple keyboard, my typing speed is 10-15wpm faster now.
Recently I got to use my favorite old klackety klack Mac Keyboard when I was rebuilding another scrap linux box.
Just not as nice anymore. I will always keep it around because I use it to fix up old boxes and donate them, but as the years wear on, it has lost more of its lustre.

I suppose All in One Macs aren't your bag, but they are nice for me currently. They do what I need them to do which is all anyone buys a machine for.
And I expect my current machine will last at least another 6-8 years. In a couple years I can upgrade my ram and my iMac will feel like a snappy machine again. Maybe in about 4-5 years I get another iMac or whatever and pass my current one down to my wife.

Key to remember is that not every machine is for everyone, but for most people I know, an iMac or Mac laptop of some sort is a lot less of a headache than a windows or linux box.
Most people just don't need a big expandable Mac anymore and Big expandable PC's of any sort are not much in need given the commoditization of the computing world. Multiple grandma's, grandpa's, aunts, uncles and cousins have all switched to iMacs and Mac laptops in the last several years and my maintenance time has dropped by 90+%. So my life has gotten a lot easier because of non-upgradeable Macs. They seem to last at least 6 years. Most of the PC's they had before really were long in the tooth at less than 6 years time.

Happy hunting on another 8 year old Mac. A tribute to their longevity really.

Re: Without Steve Jobs

[Divebus]

Your source? About the $6billion in Apple Watch sales, The Wall Street Journal says "So far, the numbers appear solid. Apple doesnâ(TM)t disclose sales, but analysts estimate about 12 million Watches were sold in year one. At an estimated average price of $500, that is a $6 billion businessâSâ"âSthree times the annual revenue of activity tracker Fitbit Inc.
By comparison, Apple sold roughly six million iPhones in its first year. As a new entrant, the Watch accounted for about 61% of global smartwatch sales last year, according to researcher IDC."

Re:Without Steve Jobs

[Gumbercules!!]

Nonsense. I'm no Apple fanbois (feel free to read my comment history, I'm not exactly pro-Apple) but when you have the kind of cash that Apple has, you're basically immune to disruption (putting aside Apple's other weapon, being that they are basically a religion and it's already proven some will stick with Apple, regardless). People talk about some iPhone killer coming along and knocking Apple over but they don't seem to understand that Apple doesn't need to out-innovate anyone. Let's imagine some company invents the NewThing. And it's awesome. And everyone want's one. Apple just has to buy that company or "reverse engineer" its tech. Problem solved. Same deal for Microsoft, Google, etc. So Windows is in decline? Big deal. Just buy whoever or whatever the competition is. When you have 100's of billions to spend, you basically can't fail, unless you completely and utterly fail to respond, like Kodak (who did not have 100's of billions to spend).

Re:Without Steve Jobs

[bloodhawk]

They aren't complaining about 10.5 billion. They are unhappy about a significant decline in profit and revenue. share price is based on forward estimates of companies profits and growth. a negative growth means the company is worth significantly less than what the share price was at, hence the 50 billion knocked off the market cap for Apple after hours.

Re:Without Steve Jobs

[U2xhc2hkb3QgU3Vja3M]

In the last keynote that talked very briefly about the "new Mac mini", they listed some bullet points:
- 4th-gen Intel Core processors
- Intel Iris and HD Graphics 5000
- PCIe-based flash storage
- 802.11ac Wi-Fi
- Two Thunderbolt 2 ports

Imagine my surprise when the low-end model was only running at 1.4GHz, but my complete shock that not all models had PCIe-based flash storage. In fact, the low-end and mid-range models not only have a much slower hard disk drive but they're slow 5400-rpm drives.

For the prices that Apple are asking for the Mac minis, the low-end should have come with 128GB, the mid-range with 256GB and the high-end with 512GB.

There's also another Keynote when they introduced an update to one of their existing laptops and they started with buzzwords like "cutting edge" or "revolutionary" but then the main feature was that it was a bit thinner than the previous model. This is completely useless, we are at a point where there is no benefit at all to making things thinner. The size should stay the same and they should increase battery life, CPU and GPU power, put more RAM in the damn things, etc.

Re:Without Steve Jobs

[religionofpeas]

The Apple car will be the most beautiful car ever, completely seamless because it does away with doors. The customer is factory installed in the leather seats and will die together with the car.

Re:Without Steve Jobs

[religionofpeas]

Without good ideas, money is useless.

Re:Without Steve Jobs

[Actually, I do RTFA]

Laptops (non-gaming) haven't benefited from being thinner for at least a decade. I tend to agree, we should be able to have a reasonably thick laptop with a nice battery life that could last for... I dunno, days?

Re:Without Steve Jobs

[religionofpeas]

Not true - all you need is enough money and intelligence to buy the good ideas

Being able to recognize a good idea isn't just a matter of intelligence. It's a matter of vision. It happens often that very good ideas are laughed at by the most intelligent people.

Re:Without Steve Jobs

[macs4all]

Only in America can you hear people complain that a company only had a net income of 10.5 billion dollars. For one quarter. Yeah, poor Apple. Whatever will they do.

what a moronic post. I would think a company that misses their earnings and profit targets would make shareholders upset in ANY country. It means either the company has mislead them or the market has overvalued them, either way it means the shareholders are getting the short end of the stick, Name me one country where people that lose money don't complain?

Or, it means that there is a natural cycle to the sales of ANY product, and that the iPhone is transitioning to a more "mature" product, where the sales figures more track general ups and downs of the market than the always-upward trajectory of a new product.

Re:Without Steve Jobs

[Plumpaquatsch]

Could be worse though, Apple could have anybody else as a CEO.

FTFY

Re:Without Steve Jobs

[Plumpaquatsch]

Given that one of the reasons Apple Maps is entirely useless is that the directions it gives include going the wrong way down one-way streets and driving off overpasses onto the road they pass over, Apple's self-driving car is a disaster in waiting.

That's odd, because actually it's Google Maps that full of these bugs, telling people to turn left or U-turn were you aren't allowed to, or sending them over private property and bus-only streets.

Re:Without Steve Jobs

[Plumpaquatsch]

Without good ideas, money is useless.

But with no ideas and no money, things are looking just fine for the competition.

Re:Without Steve Jobs

[bkr1_2k]

As is typical here (and everywhere else, honestly) people seem to think their intended use case fits all use cases. It doesn't. Some people really do actually travel and want a thin, lightweight computer and don't worry too much about battery power as long as it lasts through a reasonable flight--less of an issue as more commercial planes get power stations at every row. Some people want something more robust but still reasonable for travel. Still others want something for gaming or serious number crunching "on the go".

Laptops benefit from being available in a huge range of size and capability. And they sell. Like crazy. In pretty much all form factors. If they didn't, people wouldn't keep making them.

Could Apple stand to open up their line a bit? Maybe. Would they actually gain any more market share? I doubt it.

Re:Without Steve Jobs

[the_Bionic_lemming]

They do what I need them to do which is all anyone buys a machine for.,

Really?

So, you are a hard core gamer, programmer, and run at least two version of SQL on your pc like me? You enjoy mixing music and making video from your hd camera? How long do you spend developing your 3D modeling skills?

I'm building my new PC right now - 64 gigs of ram, 4 2 terabyte seagate constellations that'll be raid 10, mushkinssd for the boot drive, water cooled ROG poseiden vid card, Should run pretty stable at 4.1 when it's all said and done.

And you did pre-order doom 4 for the may 14 delivery date right?

My guess is no. You're probably one of the south park "smug' set. At least that's how you portray yourself.

Re:Without Steve Jobs

[Wild_dog!]

Like I said. I do what they need them to do. Takes care of my business and photo editing.

Not a hard core gamer.
I would build my own machine for that if I needed that.

Not a programmer.
Not a video editor.
Not a music studio although I am fairly certain I don't need 64 gigs, Raid 10 or water cooling on a video card for music editing.

Sounds like you have a nice setup.

I used to do that sort of thing back in the day when I had oodles of disposable time to spend on building systems to the ultimate overclocked spec.
But sadly... even the fastest system was always living on borrowed time. It wouldn't be more than a year before a basic system someone else built was much faster and had better tech. So I would build another and another. Always chasing the ultimate. All of the systems I ever built looks about as arcane as an Atari 800 now. That is just how it goes.

Anyhow... my iMac takes care of what I need for now and does so very well.
My machine wouldn't take care of your needs, nor would any Apple product.
For you, you will need to build custom machines and that is fine.
You are part of an elite group of people who care about such things and have the wherewithal to chase technology to its limits depending on your budget.

"My guess is no. You're probably one of the south park "smug' set. At least that's how you portray yourself."
Not sure what "the smug set" is really. I work as a construction worker and do a side business as a photographer.
Not sure how you got any portrayal of myself by me saying my machine does what I need it to do.
Anyhow, my life is rather mundane rather than "Trip and Hendy"

Re:Without Steve Jobs

[XxtraLarGe]

There's already prior art.

Re:Without Steve Jobs

[Plumpaquatsch]

My guess is no. You're probably one of the south park "smug' set. At least that's how you portray yourself.

So you think he is one of the people making South Park - still on Macs instead of smug-driven self-build PCs?

Re:Without Steve Jobs

[XxtraLarGe]

That's odd, because actually it's Google Maps that full of these bugs, telling people to turn left or U-turn were you aren't allowed to, or sending them over private property and bus-only streets.

I typically use Google Maps over Apple Maps on my iPhone because I like the interface better. I haven't run into any of the problems you've described, and I use it quite often for my travel. I've run into a few strange issues, like one time it showed me to circle around a block to get to an intersection that was visible from my current location and no legitimate traffic reason for taking that route, but this is the exception instead of the rule.

Re:Without Steve Jobs

[lexlthr]

They didn't miss their earnings and profit targets, they were in line with the guidance they gave on this quarter from 3 months ago. They had a decline, but they didn't mislead anyone - they predicted the decline in the quarter.

Re:Without Steve Jobs

[the_Bionic_lemming]

I mentioned this because you indicated that you were the role model for all people who use a computer - which is why I selected and replied to your quote.

Many people need nothing more than a tabled or net book. Sounds like you're one of them. But other people out there (like myself) get frustrated by hardware and software limitations imposed on us by various manufacturers that try to save money instead of building quality. So no, not everyone is like you .

Re:Without Steve Jobs

[catchblue22]

Apple is living on borrowed time. They need to come out with something disruptive, but all they can do is incremental upgrades.

I agree. IMHO, one of Steve Jobs' primary strengths was his tendency not to follow business school ideology when running his companies. Specifically he micro-managed. He knew enough about technology to know what was possible, and he knew enough about the market to know what it would want. He didn't overly rely on so-called scientific business methods such as focus groups or market surveys, which study individuals in a market who usually don't have enough self-awareness to know what they will really want. He created the iPhone with a small group of engineers (about 20 I think). They brought him preliminary builds, and he said "that's shit" or "re-do it" enough times to drive those engineers crazy. That interface, even with all its flaws, is the primary model for smart-phones interfaces today.

Tim Cook is an accountant at heart. He is a bean counter. He has been doing what business school types do best: milking existing products and innovations to get the largest possible profit from them. However he does not have the vision of Steve Jobs. He does not have fundamental insight into technology or the market. And so like any good MBA, he delegates to others, and Apple becomes a rudderless ship, bereft of innovation or passion.

Re:Without Steve Jobs

[macs4all]

Apple is living on borrowed time. They need to come out with something disruptive, but all they can do is incremental upgrades.

Yeah, but with their cash reserves and NO DEBT, they can sit and play Sodoku in the Apple Cafeteria for about two decades before anyone even notices.

Re:Without Steve Jobs

[macs4all]

The Surface Pro is a great really portable laptop-like thing, while the iPad Pro - well, is an extremely large iPad that you can't fit in your pocket and can't make calls.

The iPad Pro is obviously a "testing the market" product, that will eventually run the ARM port of OS X (Prediction: Product Name - TouchOS) that Apple is secretly working on.

Re:Without Steve Jobs

[Wdomburg]

Before the iPhone no one was marketing smartphones to consumers. It was essentially a new product category.

Re:Without Steve Jobs

[Plumpaquatsch]

That's odd, because actually it's Google Maps that full of these bugs, telling people to turn left or U-turn were you aren't allowed to, or sending them over private property and bus-only streets.

I typically use Google Maps over Apple Maps on my iPhone because I like the interface better. I haven't run into any of the problems you've described, and I use it quite often for my travel.

Well, maybe its better in the elsewhere, but Google Maps sure is bad in Germany.

Re:Without Steve Jobs

[Scroatzilla]

I don't know whether you've ever owned any Apple products; I presume not. What I was most pleasantly surprised to discover when I got my first Mac (Macbook Pro, 2014) was the gigantic support infrastructure that they have built. Between the Apple stores and perpetual OS upgrades, they have built and are maintaining their business on the notion that computers aren't disposable crap; rather, they are worth fixing, maintaining, and expanding. While their products are pricey, it was pretty clear to me that I wasn't just buying hardware and an OS.

In addition, the integration between my Macbook, iPhone, and AppleTV "just works." I have messed with home networking a little bit, and at one point had an Ubuntu media server hooked into my PC and Roku, running some streaming web apps. The Apple infrastructure achieves everything that I spent hours figuring out in minutes.

I would say that "quality" is the concept that they trade on. Wrapped up in that is the fuzzy stuff like UX, and hipster-ness; but I find that, for the first time with technology, I have a "brand loyalty" that grew naturally, and purely from experience. While I'm certain that Steve Jobs handily navigated Apple on the path that led them to market leadership, I don't sense that his absence has diminished Apple quality. All of the recent innovation and financial talk is just "noteworthy static" within the bigger picture.

Re:Without Steve Jobs

[Plumpaquatsch]

Before the iPhone no one was marketing smartphones to consumers. It was essentially a new product category.

Yeah, that's why at the introduction of the iPhone, Steve Jobs pointed out how stupid previous smartphones were. Because that market didn't even exist.

https://youtu.be/9hUIxyE2Ns8?t=206

I can hear you say "But I said: 'Consumers'!" - Well, quote Wikipedia; "Beginning with the 8700-series models in 2006, RIM began to aggressively add consumer features to BlackBerry models, in an aim to capture more of the consumer market from competitors such as Treo and Motorola Q".

Re:Without Steve Jobs

[Plumpaquatsch]

Apple is living on borrowed time. They need to come out with something disruptive, but all they can do is incremental upgrades.

Well, first they need to actually lose money selling their products, something most of their competition have been doing for years.

Re:Without Steve Jobs

[vux984]

As is typical here (and everywhere else, honestly) people seem to think their intended use case fits all use cases. It doesn't.

Perhaps, but that's not the issue here. The issue here is that apple is catering to very few use cases. The people who want to do a little excel and word on a plane are covered by a macbook air. It's thin enough. It REALLY doesn't need to be thinner.

That use case is covered.

Gamers? Apple doesn't a make a laptop for them. Period. Apple doesn't really make anything for them. That use case is simply not well supported at all.

Professional users? Well there is this this macbook pro. I have 2, one from 2007 and one from 2015. The 2015 is a 'retina model'. I've replaced the battery and upgraded the HD to an SSD on the 2007 model.

I honestly don't think the 2015 retina screen is significantly better than the 2007 one for nearly all tasks.

The 2015 one is faster though, AND gets better battery life, AND runs cooler. It's also thinner and lighter.

I actually do like that its thinner and lighter than the 2007 one, but really the 2007 one was light enough. And if weight was my priority... I'd get an Air. But weight is not my top priority.

And the 2015 one... I'd prefer it be heavier and thicker than it is, with a gigabit ethernet port built in. The extra space could extend the battery life by making more room, the extra space could be used to further improve the cooling. Its cooler than my 2007 model, but it still can get warm. And the extra space could be used to make it easier to service (add ram and ssd upgrades) something I appreciated that I could do on my 2007 model to extend its life, but which I don't think I can do on my 2015 model at all.

But frankly I don't understand the rationale for the 2015 macbook pro design, they gave up the ethernet port, and all its upgradability and ease of battery replacement etc, and sacrificed even more battery life and power that they could have added just to make it just a bit thinner.

They ALREADY make the mac book air line for people who prioritize that. If I wanted one, I'd have bought one. What I wanted ... no needed, was a more powerful macbook pro. What I got? Was a macbook pro that had shifted considerably towards the macbook air use case.

So why did I buy it? I still think its a well built laptop, and decent value for the money. I don't regret it. But it fits my use case less well than it used to. Needing ethernet dongles is irritating. But apple doesn't offer anything else. I know other people have different use cases than I do, but those people appear to be already satisfied by the few other models in the lineup, all of which cater to 'travel, thin, light'.

They've steadily made the macbook pro more and more like an air, making it thinner and dropping ethernet etc. They discontinued the 17" macbook pro.

They now basically have 3 lines for people who want a small thin lightweight computer. Macbook, Macbook Air, and Macbook Pro.

They really don't have much of anything for anyone else.

SO this isn't a case of people assuming that everyone elses use case is the same, this is a case of of apple really only satisfying one.

And on the desktop, I would never touch a mac, the macmini and imac and macpro are so far away from my use cases that none of them make any sense. Under powered and inflexible in the case of the mini and imac and just outright STUPID (and currently absurdly out of date) in the case of the mac pro.

Re:Without Steve Jobs

[Actually, I do RTFA]

People want it lightweight while traveling, sure. Seems like a common battery form factor with varying power densities/weights. I don't see any value for any person if having a laptop thinner than a Ethernet port. (Even without the port itself, I don't see the benefit.)

It seems like

Re:Without Steve Jobs

[somenickname]

This is excellent advice. In my mind, the X220 is the quintessential ultraportable workhorse laptop. Light, fast, good battery life and everything is easily replaceable. I've replace the screen twice, the keyboard once a year, the palm rest, etc. After unsuccessfully trying to "upgrade" from the X220 I just decided to spend a fraction of that money and stock up on extra parts. I imagine I'll continue to use it until I can't get replacement parts anymore.

Re:Without Steve Jobs

[bloodhawk]

Apple like most companies issues extremely conservative guidance so they can beat the estimates or in a worst case be said to be correct. This was a worst case where they barely scraped in on the guidance. It is definitely considered a miss in the market and I am sure if you asked Apple execs and they gave a truthful answer they would call it a big miss too.

Re:Without Steve Jobs

[Wild_dog!]

"I mentioned this because you indicated that you were the role model for all people who use a computer - which is why I selected and replied to your quote."

No I didn't. I never indicated I was a role model for all people.
I don't think of myself as a role model for anyone and don't think I indicated anything close to thinking I am the role model for others.
Neither do I generally talk in terms of what I think.... as applying to "all people" who use a computer.
I use my machine far more than 99.5% of the population, but I would not either imply or state that I and my computer usage applies to most anybody.

below are things I said... none of which would indicate anything close to considering myself a role model for anything.

["Key to remember is that not every machine is for everyone, but for most people I know, an iMac or Mac laptop of some sort is a lot less of a headache than a windows or linux box."

"Most people just don't need a big expandable Mac anymore and Big expandable PC's of any sort are not much in need given the commoditization of the computing world. "]

I believe this to be true for most people. I didn't say everyone doesn't need a big expandable computer. There are always those like yourself currently or me in the past who wish to dabble in lots of things and would like to have more robust boxes to tinker with. Such a level of user is not very close to the majority of users. More like a tiny fraction.

"Many people need nothing more than a tabled or net book. Sounds like you're one of them."

The first part I would agree is true for many people, but what about what I have said would indicate I am one of those who would prefer a crippled netbook or content devouring tablet?
I do production work with photography, I do CAD design. And then there is my past and current state with building linux systems out of mostly legacy hardware I get at this point. Do you read what people say before you post?

"But other people out there (like myself) get frustrated by hardware and software limitations imposed on us by various manufacturers that try to save money instead of building quality."

I spent years building the ultimate systems and gaming every waking hour. That was a great phase, but ultimately I had other priorities in life and I have moved on to needing a robust machine that will get the work I want done. That machine for me happens to be my iMac. At the time I bought it the graphics card was the 5th fastest graphics card on the market and I got it with a nice quick i-7 processor. It could play the new game Witcher 2 at the time with everything turned on so I was told, but I didn't need it for gaming since I am no longer a gamer, but it indicates the general power of the machine at the time.

So despite it being a mac, I had a fairly robust system. This is now 3 years on and my iMac is still very robust for my needs. These days I need a solid machine that will do the work I need it to and that is what I have. Now you mention poor quality.... Well most windows machines I have used generally last 3-5 years before a new machine really should be purchased. Even the machines that I built at the cutting edge I would replace fairly frequently. But with the iMacs I am finding that I can stretch them out to 6-8 years and have only had one problem with one of them. With all of the Macs I get to help people with, most of them last 6-8 years with low to no maintenance required. I would say that they have a pretty decent quality of build overall. Aesthetically they don't hog up most of my tiny work area so I appreciate that as well.

Now you say you don't like hardware limitations... but you will always have hardware limitations. Foremost limitation is the pocketbook limitation. We all hope to build a rack mount computer array that we can do great things with, but that isn't a reality for most of us.

Then there is the fact that once you buy your hardware it is getting older and getting old fast. New stuff 6 months on will blow your systems doo

Re:Without Steve Jobs

[Wild_dog!]

Hope you have your raid array backed up in a couple of ways.
It is nice to have a powerful machine for messing with HD video, but I don't need a screamer for that. My mac makes pretty easy work of putting together our HD content and making some nice edited video montages that make all of the kids very happy. The only thing that takes time is exporting the video into its container once I am done with edits but that doesn't take very long and I can work on other stuff while it is churning away or go get a beer from the fridge.
I am not doing production video of any sort. If you are, you might need a lot more horsepower of course.

So are yo a programmer, DB manager, video editor?

Re: Without Steve Jobs

[Karlt1]

The company didn't miss their earnings and profit targets they announced during the previous quarter, they missed analysts targets.

Re:Without Steve Jobs

[bkr1_2k]

Again, just because you don't see the benefit doesn't mean other people don't. (I admit it did make me mad when I realized it, but a USB-Ethernet adapter isn't super difficult to plan ahead if it's going to be necessary.) Clearly Apple hasn't had any trouble selling their Macbook Airs. I bought it and still haven't needed to buy an Ethernet adapter after traveling in multiple countries and all over the USA. Where I go there is either WiFi available or I'm not looking to be online anyway. If people weren't still looking for thinner/lighter/faster, tablets simply wouldn't be so popular. For "real" computer work you need at least a laptop, but most people still want the same physical benefits of thinner/lighter/faster, if they can get it.

Re:Without Steve Jobs

[bkr1_2k]

Your whole post proved my point. You are thinking of your own use case(s), not everyone elses. Apple chose their demographic quite deliberately, I assure you. If you happen to fall within that demographic, they have a reasonable set of options that MIGHT work for your needs. Otherwise, they're not making the right tool for you.

They're very aware of that, and aren't likely to change. They're in good position right now whether they change that or not. Their computer line simply isn't their bread and butter these days, and no matter if they come up with something innovative, copy something to make it "cool" or fail utterly, I don't suspect their computer line will ever be their cash cow again.

Re:Without Steve Jobs

[the_Bionic_lemming]

Gosh. Look at all that derp derp derp.

And yes. You did.

They do what I need them to do which is all anyone buys a machine for.

Explain that line without derping.

I accept your surrender.

Re:Without Steve Jobs

[Wild_dog!]

Plainer English for those who can't understand things.....

First concept:
"They do what I need them to do"
(My iMacs) will do what I need them to do.

Second concept:
"...do what I need them to do which is all anyone buys a machine for."
All people buy machines to do what they need them to do.

There are 2 fundamental concepts that are wedded together in the statement which is perhaps why you are confused.

It acknowledges that iMacs do the job for me. (True)
It also plainly suggests that everyone buys the machine that suits them for their needs. (True)

What you are implying I said but didn't actually say:
I did not state that iMacs do everything that anyone would need. (False)

The statement you quote doesn't remotely indicate that I am a role model for anything.
Perhaps you need to learn a bit more about the meanings of posts people make before blathering on. Either that or you might wish to acknowledge when you are skimming and didn't quite understand what you were reading rather than continuing to try make rocks swim when they can't. Perhaps be lest hasty, skim less and you might absorb more.

[Genius is nothing but a greater aptitude for patience - BENJAMIN FRANKLIN]

Re:Without Steve Jobs

[the_Bionic_lemming]

Yes, it does.

Someone who would not claim to be a genius would of said "My machine does everything I need it to do, that's what I bought the machine for".

But yeah, I'll call you a genius. Here's a statement I made to a former co-worker with a love for Apple.

"I found out that mac repair techs are called geniuses. and I agree with that. In my experience, a mac user that can use a screwdriver qualifies as one when measured against all Apple users."

Re:Without Steve Jobs

[Wild_dog!]

Ok word police, so you can't comprehend correctly what I said and now you are trying to tell me how I should have said things.... figures.

Anyhow I am not a genius, but it doesn't take one to comprehend english.
It seems you struggle in this particular area.
Not my problem though. But if you feel like hashing over your rushed response further, by all means continue. It won't change the fact that you didn't initially read what I said correctly or that you continue to want to pursue conversation trying to make your initial error somehow less.

I am game. Please continue.

Re:Without Steve Jobs

[Wild_dog!]

[But yeah, I'll call you a genius. Here's a statement I made to a former co-worker with a love for Apple.

"I found out that mac repair techs are called geniuses. and I agree with that. In my experience, a mac user that can use a screwdriver qualifies as one when measured against all Apple users."]

Kind of a general statement that lacks in fundamental logic.
I bet you thought you were being cute to make such a boorish statement.
You are proud enough of it to repeat it here for S's & G's.

Aren't you the wit!!! I had no idea I was dealing with someone of profoundly ignorant eloquence!!!
Good thing your co-worker moved on... I bet they couldn't get anything done around you and your rapier wit.
Must have been on the floor laughing the entire time while not getting real work done.
hahahaha

Re:Without Steve Jobs

[Wild_dog!]

Oh btw... my reference to the Ben Franklin was not about holding myself up as a genius. I was talking about you.
But since you seem to have difficulty with understanding things Bionic Lemming I will try and guide you once more.

By putting that rather apt quote in there, I was trying to point out the fact that you are too hurried and need more patience so that you can comprehend things before you jump on what people say without solid understanding of what you read.
Your genius will be allowed to flourish if you have more patience and don't act in such haste my friend.

If not, you will continue to bury yourself in repeated cycles of misunderstanding.

Re:Without Steve Jobs

[the_Bionic_lemming]

Wow.

A simple acceptance of making a mistake in the statement does far more than all the flailing you are doing.

Feel free to continue being a nitwit. Me, I'm sorta done with you.

You made the statement. Right?

 

Re:Without Steve Jobs

[Wild_dog!]

And you couldn't understand it.
I can't really account for how other people wrongly skim what I say.

You keep saying a bunch of stuff about what I said and what I meant which has nothing to do with what my actual words said. Then you tell me how I should have phrased it better.

Perhaps I could have phrased it better, but in the end if other people put meaning into it that isn't there, then that is on them.

Yes... I made the statement.
and....
Yes iMacs work for me.
Yes People choose the machines which suit their needs.

Those are just the facts and those are what the words in the phrase you quoted mean. Sorry you feel I am the nitwit.
But then again you seem to have a penchant for not understanding things and then accusing others or saying what they didn't actually say.
Perhaps a simple mistake, but you don't simply admit you made a mistake either because you have gone too far down the rabbit hole or because you truly don't understand.

Either way.... not my problem.

Re:Without Steve Jobs

[Wild_dog!]

To accept a mistake or own it... one has to have made a mistake.
And yet I haven't... so no I don't accept your misinterpretation of things as my mistake.

Re:Without Steve Jobs

[the_Bionic_lemming]

Obviously, it is.

Re:Without Steve Jobs

[the_Bionic_lemming]

You are knee deep in De Nile.

But it's understandable.

Re:Without Steve Jobs

[Actually, I do RTFA]

Yeah, again, my argument was it wasn't better to be thinner than the ethernet port, regardless of if you have one..

You haven't explained any way of determining if (a) People really want a thin laptop or (b) People really want an Apple laptop, and that meant accomidating Steve Jobs's obsession with thinness.

Tablets aren't popular because they are thinner/lighter. They are popular because they can be held in the hand (and manipulated by the other hand.) No laptop form factor allows this.

Re:Without Steve Jobs

[Wild_dog!]

Not really, but I suppose when someone is already underwater in De Nile that makes sense. hahahaha

Sorry I missed our continuing conversation.
I was away and traveling for the weekend.

Anyhow... you never answered my questions about what exactly you do.
You mentioned needing a speedy system, but what ... other than for gaming is the water cooling for?

Re:Without Steve Jobs

[bkr1_2k]

Yeah, again, my argument was it wasn't better to be thinner than the ethernet port, regardless of if you have one..

You haven't explained any way of determining if (a) People really want a thin laptop or (b) People really want an Apple laptop, and that meant accomidating Steve Jobs's obsession with thinness.

Macbook Airs have sold in the tens of millions of units. The Sony equivalent has sold a million or two as well. And let's not forget the netbooks from various manufacturers. How many of those sold? I'd say that does, in fact, show that people really want a thin laptop. I can't say for sure they want an Apple laptop, but people are buying them in decent numbers. (Personally I was hoping to find an Apple alternative when I bought mine but no other manufacturer could meet the weight and specs of the Apple for anywhere near the price. Some have gotten much closer since I bought the Air.)

Tablets aren't popular because they are thinner/lighter. They are popular because they can be held in the hand (and manipulated by the other hand.) No laptop form factor allows this.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on that particular point because I suspect I am not the "average" but I do this regularly with every laptop I own, from my 11" macbook air to my wife's 17" dell. It is, admittedly, not as comfortable as doing so with a tablet. I don't believe "one handed operation" is the driving force behind the popularity of tablets but I have no research that says so or indicates what is. Tomato, tomahto.

Re:Without Steve Jobs

[the_Bionic_lemming]

Sorry, didn't know you were underwater.

Compiling.

That takes serious horsepower - unless of course, you want to waste a week waiting.

Go ahead - ask me what.

(And yeah, gaming too.It's awesome what OC boards bring to gaming)

Re:Without Steve Jobs

[Wild_dog!]

What kind of project are you compiling that would take a week or even a few days?
Most project compiles would not take long at all on even my old beater iMac from 3 years ago.

I don't even remember fresh compiles of Gentoo OS from source taking close to a week long.
You must be working on some serious projects.
What are you programming that might take such long compiles?
Do you have a project up on Github or anything?

I was not a programmer but I did a lot of compiling of software from source for my systems.
That is why when I was busy messing with machines I always had a few computers to work from.
They all were pretty fast systems that I custom built.
So it is nice to have a fast system when your primary work/entertainment is computing.
Kind of like having the best and a wide array of tools for carpentry makes it quicker and easier to build things depending on the carpenter.

But I don't do that sort of thing any longer and I don't have the time to site for days playing games either so I don't really need a screaming system custom like you do.
Not many people do, but lots of people on slashdot are computer geeks and do need such systems.

Poorly written summary

[reboot246]

"The success of the iPhone is starting plateau and ultimately decrease now that consumers are finding less of a reason to upgrade to the latest and greatest smartphone."

That's not even a sentence!
Try it this way:
The success of the iPhone is starting to plateau and will ultimately decrease now that consumers are finding fewer reasons to upgrade to the latest and greatest smartphone.

Re:Poorly written summary

[rmdingler]

I read a clever article not long ago regarding a similar school of thought, but there was an interesting dissenting opinion that the plateau hadn't occurred yet... I believe advances are only going to be smaller incrementally until our communicator becomes more sophisticated than even Mr. Roddenberry ever imagined.

Re:Poorly written summary

[Streetlight]

When Apple iPhone users have a phone that does more than they need or want to do and it does it well, why would they buy a upgraded version that does a little more things they won't use it for?

Re:Poorly written summary

[fredgiblet]

It already is, by far. The only thing that's not better is range.

Re:Poorly written summary

[Plumpaquatsch]

"The success of the iPhone is starting plateau and ultimately decrease now that consumers are finding less of a reason to upgrade to the latest and greatest smartphone." That's not even a sentence! Try it this way: The success of the iPhone is starting to plateau and will ultimately decrease now that consumers are finding fewer reasons to upgrade to the latest and greatest smartphone.

Try it this way:
The success of the smartphone is starting to plateau and will ultimately decrease now that consumers are finding fewer reasons to upgrade to the latest and greatest smartphone.

Worse than the earnings decline in my eyes ...

[QuietLagoon]

... is the increase in stock buybacks. When a company starts buying back its own stock with the cash on hand, that means to me that the company cannot find a good place to invest that money.

.
Stock buybacks are a red flag for me, indicating that the company may be out of investment ideas.

Re:Worse than the earnings decline in my eyes ...

[idji]

When a company buys back it owns stock it means they are convinced (or want to convince the market) that they are undervalued and that that can earn more by doing this and waiting for the market to catch up than by acquisitions and that they have convinced the stockholders that this is a better idea than paying it out to the stockholders=owners as dividends. It does not necessarily mean that they don't know how to invest.

Re:Worse than the earnings decline in my eyes ...

[swb]

It's been argued by some economists that slow growth has caused these companies to hoard cash, both out of fear of uncertainty and because they cannot find investments they believe will provide enough return to be worth the risk of investing.

I think they also argue that this contributes somewhat to wealth inequality -- corporations are hoarding vast quantities of cash, effectively removing it from the economy. I think that I've read that even some banks have started charging negative interest to manage it because they themselves lack an effective means to park it.

Re:Worse than the earnings decline in my eyes ...

[tomhath]

It does (usually) make the stock price go up because Earnings Per Share go up; but there's really no reason the price should go up since all the company did was move money from one investment to another.

Re:Worse than the earnings decline in my eyes ...

[QuietLagoon]

...When a company buys back it owns stock it means they are convinced (or want to convince the market) that they are undervalued...

So you seem to agree that the company buys back its own stock because it sees nothing else worth investing in. If there were something else that would give a better return to the company, then the company is obligated to make that other investment.

.
So it appears that instead of investing in new products, Apple's leadership feels it is a better investment to just buy back its own stock.

That's hardly a good sign for the future of a company....

Re:Worse than the earnings decline in my eyes ...

[Anonymous Coward]

Worse than the earnings decline in my eyes is the increase in stock buybacks

Here's an alternate view. A company that is buying back its own shares is saying one of two things:
- It believes it will be able to sell them at a profit later (i.e. that the price is going to rise)
- It needs them for executive compensation and will not be able to get them cheaper before it needs them (i.e. that the price is going to rise)

Walmart pulled a similar trick back around mid November last year. They announced they we going to have a rough quarter which dropped their stock price by 10%. Then they announced a $20b stock buyback - and got 10% more stock for their $20b. I got in at $58.00. ;)

Re:Worse than the earnings decline in my eyes ...

[lawaetf1]

Ordinarily that's true but Apple has a literal embarrassment of riches. They could spend $3B on fusion research and it would be a practical rounding error on their balance sheet. Unless they want to majorly branch out of consumer electronics (ok, the car thing) they are basically at the mercy of shareholders who are demanding some of that profit.
 
Were I apple I would spend on basic research like batteries and displays. If they want their devices to be anything more than rounded-corners version of android or blackberry they need a patent-protected differentiator.

Re:Worse than the earnings decline in my eyes ...

[phantomfive]

is the increase in stock buybacks. When a company starts buying back its own stock with the cash on hand, that means to me that the company cannot find a good place to invest that money.

For most companies I would agree with you, but Apple has something like $200billion in the bank. They could fund unicorns for the next century and still be ok financially. You have to do something with that money.

Re:Worse than the earnings decline in my eyes ...

[macsimcon]

They keep reducing inventory, which means they expect lower sales, and as they do they’re reducing SG&A as well.

Perhaps Apple has been sitting on its $230B cash hoarde because they expect a worldwide depression soon. In that case, the paltry sums they’re spending on share repurchases via bond sales, as well as dividend payments, are just the price they have to pay to maintain so much cash, rather than reinvesting it in the business.

Apple is continuing to spend more and more on R&D, and they’ve always maintained they would innovate their way out of a predicament.

Re:Worse than the earnings decline in my eyes ...

[ConfusedVorlon]

I don't know where this idea of unlimited investment opportunities comes from.

Apple is fundamentally limited by the number of good people they can hire, manage and put on good business ideas.
You seem to be suggesting that if they accept there is a limit to this - then they are failing.

I'd interpret it as them managing sensibly. They have a ridiculous amount of cash. They can do everything they want to, and much more.
Rather than sitting on the excess cash - they're giving some of it back to the people who own the company.

This seems much smarter than sitting hoarding cash in a corner muttering about unlimited future opportunities.

Re:Worse than the earnings decline in my eyes ...

[drinkypoo]

I think they also argue that this contributes somewhat to wealth inequality -- corporations are hoarding vast quantities of cash, effectively removing it from the economy. I think that I've read that even some banks have started charging negative interest to manage it because they themselves lack an effective means to park it.

But that's a lot of shit. That's the banks' job, loaning out money to the rest of us so that we can make things happen in spite of some people acquiring all the wealth to themselves. The banks are also refusing to sell homes for what the market will bear, in spite of there being enough vacant homes in America to give every single homeless man, woman, and child multiples. They are presumably trying to crash the market completely, so that more people become homeless, and the banks can end up owning even more of everything. The problem is that the homes get squatted in, stripped of their fixtures, and destroyed by weather cycling when not occupied. Presumably the banks will demand another bailout later down the road, after they've made even more of us homeless.

It is way past time to destroy some of these big banks.

Re:Worse than the earnings decline in my eyes ...

[Plumpaquatsch]

Stock buybacks are a red flag for me, indicating that the company may be out of investment ideas.

http://www.cnet.com/news/google-plans-first-ever-share-buyback/ - And that was in 2009.

Re:Worse than the earnings decline in my eyes ...

[Plumpaquatsch]

This. Just what happened to Nokia before the ultimate dip and introduction of the MS mole.

Errm - Nope. In the years before the purchase, Nokia massively decreased stock buyback, and in 2013 when they where bought (and the year before), they actually sold some shares. And the year after that they increased the number of outstanding shares by over 10%.

Now that is a sign of a healthy company, innit?

Re:Worse than the earnings decline in my eyes ...

[hidflect]

Excellent point. Hence you got down voted by angry fanbois...

Re:Worse than the earnings decline in my eyes ...

[Plumpaquatsch]

Excellent point. Hence you got down voted by angry fanbois...

Ignoring that the OP was dumb as shit - there was no moderation on that post. Angry-dumb hateboi much?

Re:Worse than the earnings decline in my eyes ...

[swb]

I think from the banks' perspective the corporate cash is a nuisance because corporations aren't depositing all $97 billion in cash they have into a passbook savings account. Corporations have all manner of management for balance sheet cash that can involve everything from literal deposits to T-bills to other highly liquid instruments that are the accounting equivalent of cash. None of it is held in one account or in any one instrument for long.

If Apple plops $5 billion of cash into an account because they need to wait 30 days to buy a raft of new 30 day T-bills with that cash, the bank can't say "Oh look! $5 billion in cash we can loan out at 5% while we pay Apple 2.5%" because they know Apple will come back in 29 days and pull out $5 billion. It's a liquidity problem for the bank to try to use that money, whereas the average over all other longer term accounts makes for easier liquidity calculations.

I think banks are actually being reasonable here with regard to short term large-scale cash deposits, I think the larger problem is corporate cash hoarding. But the people who should care, like shareholders, don't seem to or at least don't care enough to force management to do anything different. In theory they should be paying most of the cash out as dividends (less sane reserves or business investments), but they don't.

I know Apple has had strategies in the past of cornering the supply market on some components by essentially building a factory for the component and guaranteeing they are the only customer for the first 20 million items produced, which is an enormous investment. Maybe that's their argument for hoarding cash, is that their supply strategy requires them to commit $10 billion at time to maintain some kind of component edge so they are able to convince the board or shareholders that $90 billion is therefore a reasonable reserve amount.

My guess is they don't even bother -- the board is a management rubber stamp and the shareholders can go fuck themselves if they don't like it, and the shareholders only option is to dump their stock.

Re:Worse than the earnings decline in my eyes ...

[Dixie_Flatline]

There are 'activist' investors like Carl Icahn, and he's one of the big reasons behind the buyback. He bought a tonne of stock, and used his clout to encourage Apple to buy back shares. Partly, I'm sure, to boost his stock price and make him even richer, but also because (he claims) he thinks Apple should be giving more money back to investors.

Re:Worse than the earnings decline in my eyes ...

[drinkypoo]

If Apple plops $5 billion of cash into an account because they need to wait 30 days to buy a raft of new 30 day T-bills with that cash, the bank can't say "Oh look! $5 billion in cash we can loan out at 5% while we pay Apple 2.5%"

Sure, but the bank can just place conditions on amounts of money that big, and if Apple doesn't like it, they can take their headaches somewhere else. It's not really the bank's problem. If the money is only an inconvenience, they can simply refuse to take it.

Re:Worse than the earnings decline in my eyes ...

[swb]

And that's exactly what they are doing -- charging negative interest rates for large-scale short term cash deposits. Discouragement pricing.

Maybe Apple needs to expand into new markets?

[Anonymous Coward]

Where the Apple under Jobs succeeded was going into relatively nascant markets (MP3 players, cellphones, tablets), and leapfrogging the pioneers in the field.

The Apple under Cook has made mistakes by trying to enter in markets where people have been there for centuries (watchmakers.)

There are still a lot of markets Apple can take, which the way have been paid for them:

1: Car audio. Even the crackheads won't bust out a car stereo these days. Apple making an actual 1-2 DIN audio head would score big, as car makers would buy it. Car makers would actually be faced with a choice, just like existing CarPlay. Buy Apple's product, or go bankrupt and be replaced by companies that have.

2: NAS hardware. Add some features and apps to the Time Capsule, and people would buy that thing in droves, essentially acting as a home server.

3: Security in general. Make a new type of mechanical, or electro-mechanical key lock like the Medeco CLIQ, and now have tens to hundreds of millions of sales as people and businesses buy better security. The humble deadbolt can easily be improved and made far more secure.

4: Go into the enterprise. Apple has name recognition, so if they made an enterprise desktop Mac, they would sell millions, at Mac prices. Especially with the ability to physically disable the camera/mic, and better AD GPOs.

5: Make a security IoT infrastructure. Special chip on iPhone can run a secure app protocol over Bluetooth (which has encryption in itself), so people can open a safe with just a press of a button on the home button. IoT needs security, and here is where Apple can champion and profit.

6: Sell iOS technologies as an embedded platform, as well as their custom ARM SoC.

7: Get with Intel and VMWare, make an XServe model which has ESXi (upgradable of course) in firmware. Name recognition alone will get these in the door, and Apple was, for a few years, the second biggest storage vendor out there. Maybe it might be profitable to get back in there.

Re:Maybe Apple needs to expand into new markets?

[CanadianMacFan]

Before they go expanding into new markets they need to get back to their roots and fix some of their problems. They have gotten away from a simple UI on the iPhone that let you worked your way. Instead it forces you to go with their workflow. For example if you want to change the volume while inside the Music app you could just use a slider before but now you have to take some extra steps. For some reason you can't set the rating of songs or podcasts on the iPhone anymore. There are lot of things that they have done to make the interface of the iPhone less user friendly.

Apple really needs to work on the Mac App store. It's a forgotten child and that is driving developers from it. They aren't leaving the Mac platform but the store could be a great resource. It seems like every time they come out with some new tool for developers on the iOS App store it's not available for the Mac App store.

Apple needs to find out a way to address the needs of developers for the two stores, especially for handling upgrades and to contact customers who have complaints.

They really need to come out with a new Mac Pro. The laptops and the iMacs have fairly regular updates but the Mac Pro seems to have been forgotten about.

Re:Maybe Apple needs to expand into new markets?

[Tough Love]

Apple needs to become a church. Apple's biggest asset is its believers, and what else do you need? Nothing rakes in the gold like religion, it's the best business ever.

Re:Maybe Apple needs to expand into new markets?

[tom229]

Virtually all of the things you mentioned require Apple to back off, a lot, on their traditional model of tight control and exclusivity. This will be something their culture will have an extraordinary struggle with. A car that only works with iPhones? The manufacturer would have to be suicidal and definitely American. No other country with an auto manufacturer even has close to the market share to justify that. NAS hardware, general security controls, iot infrastructure - none of these areas offer an opportunity for the a tightly controlled "experience" they're accustomed to selling. Virtualization would be a massive undertaking and probably a wasted effort. Many companies have decades of experience over them and open source is rapidly becoming the most robust of all.

They could certainly use integrated group policy controls in osx though with admx extensions into AD or, even better, samba. That's a good idea. Some groupware mail options would be great as well. The first company to better automate phone deployment and security controls like the days of BlackBerry should do very well as well. It's really a complete mystery that no developer seems interested in the enterprise these days. They all seem willing to just repackage consumer grade ideas - even the guys selling the stuff that no one is buying.

Re: Maybe Apple needs to expand into new markets?

[Dixie_Flatline]

Estimates are that they made about a billion dollars more than Rolex selling watches this year. I donâ(TM)t really disagree with the rest of your post, but making a mistake to the tune of $6.5 billion revenue is one that most companies would kill for. The watch isnâ(TM)t (and canâ(TM)t be, if you ask me) the same category as successful as the iPhone, but it doesnâ(TM)t make it a bad decision.

Re:Maybe Apple needs to expand into new markets?

[drinkypoo]

1: Car audio. Even the crackheads won't bust out a car stereo these days. Apple making an actual 1-2 DIN audio head would score big, as car makers would buy it.

Nope. You don't understand the automotive realm, so don't make declarative statements about it. The automakers are already going with head units which support both Apple CarPlay and Android Auto. Consumers want choice and automakers don't want to leave money on the table simply because they don't support a potential owner's phone. Believe it or not, they are way more likely to buy a different car than they are to change phones to match their car.

2: NAS hardware. Add some features and apps to the Time Capsule, and people would buy that thing in droves, essentially acting as a home server.

Apple already tried servers, and found that people won't pay the Apple price premium on them. Therefore they got back out of that market because it didn't produce Apple-scale levels of profit.

3: Security in general.

Apple knows nothing about security, and locks fail your own test because people have been making them even longer than watches. You have no idea what your own argument is!

4: Go into the enterprise. Apple has name recognition, so if they made an enterprise desktop Mac, they would sell millions, at Mac prices.

No, no, a million times no. They would not. They have nothing like Microsoft's management frameworks, and so they have absolutely no chance to compete in that area. They are also the sole supplier of their equipment, and nobody wants to be in that position. You pay a substantial price premium for low-end hardware, and most business PCs are fairly low-end hardware since they don't need to be anything else.

5: Make a security IoT infrastructure.

This is almost a good idea, but Apple is not really that good at security.

6: Sell iOS technologies as an embedded platform,

Nope. Apple wants control over how their platform is used. They won't want to sell iOS for use in casino gaming machines, and it's not good enough to use for industrial automation. It's not cheap enough to use in an ATM, or anywhere else actually. So where do you think they can sell a product like this? The profit per unit would be minuscule, so why do you think they would be interested?

7: Get with Intel and VMWare, make an XServe model which has ESXi (upgradable of course) in firmware.

No, you fail again, see #2 and #4.

Your ideas are bad, and you should feel bad.

Re:Maybe Apple needs to expand into new markets?

[mjwx]

1: Car audio. Even the crackheads won't bust out a car stereo these days. Apple making an actual 1-2 DIN audio head would score big, as car makers would buy it. Car makers would actually be faced with a choice, just like existing CarPlay. Buy Apple's product, or go bankrupt and be replaced by companies that have.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

The car industry is far more powerful than Apple, who's power is waning. It's the car industry that will dictate terms to the head unit makers, not Apple to the car industry. Also car audio is the very definition of an over saturated market. You've got dozens of choices with large established manufacturers willing to run on razor thin margins. This is why car makers can dictate to them.

Besides, all the car industry will have to do to counter Apple's threats is go to Microsoft or Google and say "Apple are promising this, but want us to do this thing we dont like" and they'll jump at doing the same thing as Apple without the thing they dont like.

3: Security in general. Make a new type of mechanical, or electro-mechanical key lock

Hey look, its a solution without a problem.

It will never gain traction because it's nothing but a gimmick. A traditional lock and key is good enough and will still work when the powers out.

Go into the enterprise. Apple has name recognition,

Again, oversaturated and Apple's support policy of "blame the user" combined with their design philosophy of "our way or the highway" means that business wont touch them.

Make a security IoT infrastructure.

Another gimmick. Besides, giving people lots of options on what to do with their product is contrary to apple's philosophy of taking away options from the user.

Sell iOS technologies as an embedded platform, as well as their custom ARM SoC.

You mean like a phone... or a tablet... or a media centre... oh wait.

Get with Intel and VMWare, make an XServe model which has ESXi (upgradable of course) in firmware

You mean like HP, IBM, Dell and every other server vendor has been doing for years? Shipping essentially disk-less servers with nothing but a bit of memory for ESXi and a heap of network IO ports. I assure you Apple are at least 8 years late to this party and again, the margins are razor thin.

Also you dont seem to understand how Apple or VMWare work. Apple beleives in locking you into their infrastructure, VMWare believes in not locking you into anyone's infrastructure, not even their own. With VSphere it doesn't matter if it's IBM, Dell or HP running underneath ESXi as long as the CPU's are compatible. Its going to get worse for Apple with NSX, now it doesn't matter what network and storage you're running as your guests are only dealing with the hypervisor.

Do you work for Tech Crunch? I have to ask because you've presented us with a list of ideas to save Apple that range from the useless to the utterly stupid.

My prediction is that Apple will try to enter the car market and that will bury them. Tesla already offers a better product, by the time Apple has made a car Hyundai will offer a better product and the Apple i-car will cost three times as much, have the indicator stalk sticking out of the back seat, the satnav will only work with Apple authorised locations and it will only turn right.

Re:Maybe Apple needs to expand into new markets?

[nine-times]

I agree with you, more or less. Essentially, I think there are a lot of areas where Apple could invest and make a big difference to dramatically improve their offerings. If I had my choice I'd start with making their existing products more appealing for business use:

1) Fix the problems with OSX. If you've had to support Macs, you've probably run into a couple problems that have been there for years, with no clear solution. Accessing file shares is slow and buggy. Their mail application tends to die when dealing with a lot of messages. Apple should just invest in fixing those things.
2) Make it easy to manage Macs in bulk. Right now there aren't a lot of good RMM options for Mac. JAMF is absolute shit. You can roll your own stuff with FOSS tools, but that takes quite a bit of knowledge. Apple has some Enterprise programs that are overly complex for small businesses. Whether they work to improve and integrate the FOSS tools, build their own cloud service, or work with existing RMM vendors, if Apple could make it dead-simple to deploy and manage Macs, it could help them dramatically in businesses.
3) Expand their business hardware. This is tough, because I understand that Apple had some good reasons to drop their Xserve line, but they could help their chances in business adoption if they were to expand their offerings to offer more of a full stack. Having a supported method of running OSX on server hardware is one direction, but I would take a different tack: Buy Meraki from Cisco to make a line of cloud-controlled network devices, including firewalls, NAS devices, and wireless access points. This even ties into #2 (better remote administration), since they could tie Meraki's MDM in with iCloud, and create a method of tracking devices, deploying software and settings, having remote control, etc. They could create a single-pane-of-glass to manage a whole network of Mac devices. Add in some directory services and SSO, and you've got a stew going.

Apple set themselves up for this

[npslider]

Apple has lost it's advantage; Android phones are selling like hot cakes, Apple's use of proprietary connectors and technologies has alienated many current and potential customers. Apple smart phones and tablets are no longer cutting edge and novel. They created a bubble and now it is popping.

Re:Apple set themselves up for this

[rockout]

Did you copy-paste this from 2003?

Re:Apple set themselves up for this

[npslider]

Actually I didn't, but it does sound like it!

Re:Apple set themselves up for this

[Sarten-X]

The response is the same today as it was then. Standard connectors have are different from Apple's designs. Which one is better is mostly subjective at this point, and Apple's chosen to follow the path that best aligns with its business model.

Consider, for example, USB-C cables. They're a great idea, and have so much promise... until a faulty one fries your device. To engineers, that's the cable's fault. To an average user (Apple's target market, mind you), a cable is just a cable, and the now-dead device is just unreliable. Another example is a MicroSD card slot. There are fast cards and slow cards, and Apple has absolutely no way to control the quality of what could impact their reputation.

The old sales tactic is to not just sell a product, but an experience. Apple is actually following through on that. For years, they didn't just sell a computer. They sold a computer and the promise that all of your hardware upgrades would be compatible and correct, because they would come directly from Apple... for a price. For the customers who weren't technically-inclined, that's precisely what they wanted.

Re:Apple set themselves up for this

[drinkypoo]

Consider, for example, USB-C cables. They're a great idea, and have so much promise... until a faulty one fries your device. To engineers, that's the cable's fault. To an average user (Apple's target market, mind you), a cable is just a cable, and the now-dead device is just unreliable.

So, just like an iPhone then. What was your argument again? Because I just invalidated it.

Another example is a MicroSD card slot. There are fast cards and slow cards, and Apple has absolutely no way to control the quality of what could impact their reputation.

But a trivial way to get out of being blamed for it; just put up a FAQ page explaining SD card classes, and tell the users they need to get a fast one. No, Apple refuses to include a card slot because users will just buy the cards from someone other than them, and they cannot abide that.

Re:Apple set themselves up for this

[rockout]

But a trivial way to get out of being blamed for it; just put up a FAQ page explaining SD card classes, and tell the users they need to get a fast one.

Oh right. Because such a high percentage of iPhone buyers check FAQ pages before buying something like an SD card. Or even know what an SD card is. You just made an argument against your own claim.

Re:Apple set themselves up for this

[Plumpaquatsch]

But a trivial way to get out of being blamed for it; just put up a FAQ page explaining SD card classes, and tell the users they need to get a fast one.

Oh right. Because such a high percentage of iPhone buyers check FAQ pages before buying something like an SD card. Or even know what an SD card is. You just made an argument against your own claim.

Sorry to tell, but Apple's customers aren't as stupid as you pretend they are. You shouldn't judge them by how stupid the fellow customers are of whatever you bought.

Re:Apple set themselves up for this

[rockout]

Sorry to tell, but Apple's customers aren't as stupid as you pretend they are. You shouldn't judge them by how stupid the fellow customers are of whatever you bought.

I'm an Apple customer, genius. But take a look around at the iPhone users you know - not the ones you work with, the ones in your family and social circle that are constantly asking you for free tech support. How many of them understand, really understand, what an SD card is and how to get data on and off of it? Maybe half? A quarter?

Re:Apple set themselves up for this

[Plumpaquatsch]

Sorry to tell, but Apple's customers aren't as stupid as you pretend they are. You shouldn't judge them by how stupid the fellow customers are of whatever you bought.

I'm an Apple customer, genius. But take a look around at the iPhone users you know - not the ones you work with, the ones in your family and social circle that are constantly asking you for free tech support. How many of them understand, really understand, what an SD card is and how to get data on and off of it? Maybe half? A quarter?

The only people who ask me for help with their phones have an Android. Deal with it.

Re:Apple set themselves up for this

[rockout]

I appreciate that you want to turn this into an Apple vs. Android thing, but my commentary was more about the average consumer in general, and this article happened to be about iPhones, as was the comment I initially responded too. Thanks for inserting your holy war into it; however, you can probably find a more appropriate place to piss into the wind somewhere else, as no one here cares.

Also, "The only people who ask me for help with their phones have an Android" sounds like a desperate lie to support your off-topic opinion about Apple vs. Android.

Re:Apple set themselves up for this

[Plumpaquatsch]

I appreciate that you want to turn this into an Apple vs. Android thing, but my commentary was more about the average consumer in general, and this article happened to be about iPhones, as was the comment I initially responded too. Thanks for inserting your holy war into it; however, you can probably find a more appropriate place to piss into the wind somewhere else, as no one here cares.

Also, "The only people who ask me for help with their phones have an Android" sounds like a desperate lie to support your off-topic opinion about Apple vs. Android.

Okay I take the fact back that only Android users have to ask me to fix their phones for them. How does that make you right again? Oh, yeah. NOT.

But thanks for diverting from that little issue.

Tim Cook has a cunning plan for resurgence

[Snufu]

Apple buys Compaq.

Re:Tim Cook has a cunning plan for resurgence

[John Bokma]

I am sure HP is happy to sell it for peanuts.

Re:Tim Cook has a cunning plan for resurgence

[npslider]

HP beat them to it, no... their last hope is merge with Packard Bell creating a new company: Packard Apple!

Re:Tim Cook has a cunning plan for resurgence

[bkr1_2k]

Surely they should go with Appbell, rather than Packard Apple.

Or...

[Anubis350]

Or they're sitting on such a huge pile of cash that any investing in anything that would eat a substantial portion of it would fundamentally change their business or attract anti-trust problems

Re:Apple is dying

[93 Escort Wagon]

I'm amazed at how many people are totally in love with Apple and are incapable of seeing things objectively.

Well, in your post you pretty much demonstrated that this limitation is not confined to those folks living in the Apple universe.

Re:Two words

[macs4all]

Two words: Soldered RAM. For me that's more than enough.

Then you have probably purchased your last laptop from ANYONE.

I don't like it much, either; but it seems to be an industry-wide trend.

more than that

[markdavis]

>"The success of the iPhone is starting plateau and ultimately decrease now that consumers are finding less of a reason to upgrade to the latest and greatest smartphone"

And because consumers are also finding that there is often less of a reason to buy an iphone when compared to other high-end smartphones.

DIE HIPSTERS

[bretts]

I remember those "1984" commercials. I would never want Apple to become a massive corporate bandit, especially one that sells to the dead end of Western Civilization.

Re:what a coincidence

[thebes]

Are you sure it is Samsung? An 'o' turns into an 'a' so easily. Enjoy your Somsung

Anticipated for 3 months?!? LOL

[codeAlDente]

I think not. Earnings were well below analysts' expectations. Guidance for future earnings was worse than that. Not news for nerds. Propaganda for morons.

Tim Cook thinks Apple's team did well

[Streetlight]

“Our team executed extremely well in the face of strong macroeconomic headwinds,” Apple CEO Tim Cook, said.

Stock price is down $6 in early after close trading. I'd hate to see what the result would have been if the team had average performance.

Re:Tim Cook thinks Apple's team did well

[Plumpaquatsch]

“Our team executed extremely well in the face of strong macroeconomic headwinds,” Apple CEO Tim Cook, said. Stock price is down $6 in early after close trading. I'd hate to see what the result would have been if the team had average performance.

Well, a little like Alphabet's shares? Their report sounds eerily like Apple's, yet they supposedly aren't doomed, even after the sharp stock price fall.

Whoah...

[c]

Just as the prophecies foretold. My faith in random tech pundits is renewed.

Its the politics, stupid...

[Texmaize]

I know I will catch hell for this, but I will say it anyway. The problem is that Tim Cook is by far more interested than being a gay/liberal activist, than being a CEO of an innovative company. If you look at the various stories about him and apple over the last few years, you will see it is alway about the politics, not making "insanely great" doodads.

Many on Slashdot give him a pass, because you like the causes he supports. At the same time, you bemoan the fact that the new iMac mini was actually worse than the old one, computers are not updated nearly enough, computers are not powerful enough for Oculus Rift, or even many games, features such as ram expansion have been downgraded, the new GUI is a backwards step, programs like pages and iMovie are stagnant, programs like Aperture have been cancelled, the iwatch was just plain silly, and the iPhone changes are just plain underwhelming. All this can be now said about a company that a decade ago, saw a world filled with CD players, and figured out how to bring your entire music collection with you at once....all with a slick interface.

Apple used to be about being transformative. Now it is just about being transgendered. I miss insanely great.

Re: Its the politics, stupid...

[chispito]

I hate to always be that guy, but Apple did not figure out how to let you take your whole music collection with you, they simply made the best version of an existing product and shackled it to their DRM laden music store.

Re: Its the politics, stupid...

[U2xhc2hkb3QgU3Vja3M]

The DRM was asked by the music industry at the very beginning. It was a condition so that Apple could sell music files. But soon after, Steve Jobs fought against the DRM and this is why the music is now in unprotected 256kbps AAC instead of DRM'ed 128kbps AAC.

When you buy music on the iTunes store today, there's no DRM. Take the file and copy it to another device capable of playing AAC, it will work without any problem.

Re:Its the politics, stupid...

[WaffleMonster]

Apple used to be about being transformative. Now it is just about being transgendered. I miss insanely great.

What do people mean in concrete specific terms when they say Apple is (insanely) great? Having never purchased an Apple anything what specific insane greatness have I missed out on?

As for CD players and figuring shit out... We were already ripping our CD collections and downloading from Napster before ipod. We already had PDAs that could play MP3's and several portable mp3 players were already on the market like Rio before there was ever an ipod.

Re:Its the politics, stupid...

[fredgiblet]

All this can be now said about a company that a decade ago, saw a world filled with CD players, and figured out how to bring your entire music collection with you at once....all with a slick interface.

I had an MP3 player before the iPod came out. They didn't invent it, or even make it good. All they did was make one with a hard drive and a slick marketing campaign that made people willing to pay the extremely high price.

Re:Its the politics, stupid...

[bkr1_2k]

And where are Rio and Napster now? What made people say Apple is "insanely great" is they gave users (at one time) features they wanted in an easy to use platform. Sadly, those days are slipping farther and farther away from reach as Apple continues to bloat their software while removing features. Some people believe they are doing the same with their hardware.

Re:Its the politics, stupid...

[Plumpaquatsch]

All this can be now said about a company that a decade ago, saw a world filled with CD players, and figured out how to bring your entire music collection with you at once....all with a slick interface.

I had an MP3 player before the iPod came out. They didn't invent it, or even make it good. All they did was make one with a hard drive and a slick marketing campaign that made people willing to pay the extremely high price.

So why weren't the makers of those much better and earlier and cheaper and whatever MP3 players willing to advertise their products outside the back pages of Computer Shopper?

Re: Its the politics, stupid...

[chispito]

The DRM was asked by the music industry at the very beginning. It was a condition so that Apple could sell music files. But soon after, Steve Jobs fought against the DRM

Oh yes, I am sure he fought quite valiantly against Apple's position of profitable vendor lock in.

That letter is not new to me, only that somebody believed it.

Re:Its the politics, stupid...

[fredgiblet]

Probably because they didn't have a PR genius with a captive audience at the helms of their companies.

Re:Its the politics, stupid...

[WaffleMonster]

And where are Rio and Napster now?

The same place everyone's ipods are today would be my guess.

Re:Its the politics, stupid...

[Plumpaquatsch]

Probably because they didn't have a PR genius with a captive audience at the helms of their companies.

It takes a "PR genius" to do advertisements for your products? And how exactly did Apple/Jobs have an "captive audience" - the customer base had been dwindling for years, and those left often loudly complained about the new products. The whole "selling to the faithful" meme could explain why people were still buying Apple "when they were going out of business", but it can obviously not explain the large growth of Apple since 1998. Not if you have an IQ above 80.

Re:Its the politics, stupid...

[fredgiblet]

The iMac came out in '98 and revitalized the company, gaining a (relative) lot of marketshare back for them and put them on the map again. Your assertion that the other MP3 players were never marketed is simply stupid. They were marketed, but there's few companies as good at marketing as Apple (at least when Jobs is at the helm). I'm not sure exactly what your angle is, it seems to simply be abrasive and confrontational, but the FACT of the matter is that the only actual innovation the iPod had was it's storage size, the rest was PR magic.

Re: Its the politics, stupid...

[Plumpaquatsch]

The DRM was asked by the music industry at the very beginning. It was a condition so that Apple could sell music files. But soon after, Steve Jobs fought against the DRM

Oh yes, I am sure he fought quite valiantly against Apple's position of profitable vendor lock in. That letter is not new to me, only that somebody believed it.

People believed it way before it was written. http://www.cnet.com/news/apple-unveils-music-store/

Jobs has been an outspoken opponent of so-called digital rights management (DRM) in the past, arguing that limitations on digital music will undermine the market for legitimate content.

Re:Its the politics, stupid...

[Plumpaquatsch]

The iMac came out in '98 and revitalized the company, gaining a (relative) lot of marketshare back for them and put them on the map again. Your assertion that the other MP3 players were never marketed is simply stupid.

You are of course right - they were marketed to Nerdsters like you, and thus had tiny sales. Period.

Re:Its the politics, stupid...

[bkr1_2k]

In their cars? On their arms when they exercise? I'm not sure what you're getting at.

Re:Its the politics, stupid...

[fredgiblet]

>Like you

1/10, not even mad bro. Anyway, it's clear you don't have an actual argument, so have fun masturbating to your iPod.

Re:Its the politics, stupid...

[Plumpaquatsch]

You make up arguments I supposedly made, and I am the troll. 0/1000 Sister.

OMG! We're all gonna die!

[Qbertino]

EOM

Re: what a coincidence

[Anonymous Coward]

I know a genuine Panaphonics or Sorny when I see them.

Convenient

[tom229]

It's rather convenient they were in a controversy over phone security this year wasn't it? It certainly gives them a new selling point for declining sales. Be ready for obnoxious ads in September about how the new iPhone 7 is unbreakable (which it won't be). As soon as I read the actual court order involved in that San Bernandino case, juxtaposed with the hyperbole in the media, I knew this was just another marketing campaign from a company that knows no shame. Now we have the confirmed motive.

Re:Convenient

[Plumpaquatsch]

It's rather convenient they were in a controversy over phone security this year wasn't it? It certainly gives them a new selling point for declining sales. Be ready for obnoxious ads in September about how the new iPhone 7 is unbreakable (which it won't be). As soon as I read the actual court order involved in that San Bernandino case, juxtaposed with the hyperbole in the media, I knew this was just another marketing campaign from a company that knows no shame. Now we have the confirmed motive.

Nice conspiracy theory. Which raises the question: why don't people give a shit about the severely lacking security on Android phones?

Re:Convenient

[tom229]

Well, in this sense "Android phone" is a misnomer. Unlike with iPhones there is no centralized, controlled way for Android phones to exist. But I'll address a few things you might be referring to.

AOSP (the Android base) uses the Linux kernel, which has a mature implementation of the standardized dm-crypt subsystem for encryption. AOSP implemented use of dm-crypt in 2010 with version 2.3. Apple wasn't encrypting user data until 2015 with iOS8. In fact, Apple had a well documented policy of co-operating with law enforcement requests (see: section I) until they developed new security measures in iOS8 in an attempt to absolve themselves of responsibility. A responsibility they willingly take on with the provisions in their EULA that explicitly state: they own iOS and you do not.

What you might be referring to is hardware encryption vs. software encryption. Since the AES cipher is a mathematical formula there is no inherent benefit of using it via a hardware circuit, or through software. The only benefit of hardware encryption is that it's immune to parallel brute force attacks, and it can artificially slow down the brute force attempt interval through it's circuitry. This is only a measurable benefit for systems secured with complex passwords, of which phones typically are are not. Because of this, Apple relies on firmware measures on it's chips to artificially increase brute force intervals with a failed attempt counter, and to activate a kill switch on too many attempts. Because this is a software measure it is subvert-able in the same ways all software measures (dm-crypt) are - simply by modifying the software. In an attempt to solve this, Apple has used a SecureBoot bootloader that will only accept software modifications signed with the Apple private key. This means that Apple has an exclusive back door into their own system, a problem you have correctly identified in your signature. A back door that Apple has, can be accessed by law enforcement through subpoena's, could be unknowingly leaked, or could be shared with other private enterprise. In security circles we call this "security through obscurity". It is a false sense of security, at best. Furthermore, Apple's implementation is proprietary. While dm-crypt is a mature industry-wide standard that has the potential for 8 billion code reviews, the Apple encryption implementation is known to only a handful of Apple engineers. This makes it inherently prone to security exploits, and also prone to those exploits remaining secret when discovered. This arguably makes the Apple's hardware encryption system altogether less secure. In fact, it is possible that a security exploit was used by the FBI to break into the San Bernandino phone, even if it was using a strong password.

Finally, what you might be referring to is the idiotic notion that all data *should* be encrypted. Encryption methods have been around for 60 years, and personal computers have been around for over 30. There's a reason most computer systems aren't encrypted by default and that's simply because in 99.9999% of cases it causes more problems than it solves. It is much more common to have hardware damage or failure that requires you to mount and rescue data externally, than to have a use case where your data is important enough to be encrypted. Because of this, encryption is always seen as optional element for data that a user can activate should they chose to. Android phones making encryption an option is a far more sound practice than turning it on by default.

So ultimately the iPhone encryption implementation is using closed standards, is less secure, and far less convenient. Please, please Google - please don't follow suit.

Re:Convenient

[Plumpaquatsch]

Well, in this sense "Android phone" is a misnomer. Unlike with iPhones there is no centralized, controlled way for Android phones to exist. But I'll address a few things you might be referring to. AOSP (the Android base) uses the Linux kernel, which has a mature implementation of the standardized dm-crypt subsystem for encryption. AOSP implemented use of dm-crypt in 2010 with version 2.3. Apple wasn't encrypting user data until 2015 with iOS8.

I have to read no further to know you don't have any clue. But thanks for your best effort anyway. [golf clap]

Re:Convenient

[tom229]

I'll assume it's the user data encryption you have a problem with. Here's Apple's own law enforcement guidelines. Pay specific attention to section I where they talk about how they can easily provide user data (sms, photos, videos, et al.) to law enforcement on request and other unencrypted data for any phone running ios 7 or older. Nobody knows exactly what Apple is doing but it's clear from their own documentation that they were easily able to access user data from locked phones up until 2015. This means it was either unencrypted, or encrypted in a way that is compromised, which is effectively unencrypted.

So I'd encourage you to challenge your pre-formed opinions more and read on, you'll certainly learn more. Or remain gleefully ignorant if you wish. I find Apple customers are typically extraordinarily obtuse due to the price of their products causing a very high level of post purchase rationalisation.

Re:Convenient

[Plumpaquatsch]

What's your fucking point? Google will give out user data just as easy - but most of the time LEOs and criminals can just get at it by themselves. That's what I've been talking about all along. Something you either don't know, or are paid to downplay.

Re:Convenient

[tom229]

My original point was that it all seems rather convenient Apple would create an unnecessary controversy in a year with declining sales.

You shifted the argument with an assertion that Android encryption/security was worse. I spent several paragraphs explaining to you why it was actually better, none of which you read, by your own omission. I provided publicly available Apple documentation to you, twice, to show you that Apple user data has been either weakly encrypted, or not encrypted at all, until 2015. In fact, if your phone is running anything older than iOS 8 even today you're still vulnerable. Android has had encryption since 2.3 (2010) via the mature industry standard implementation of dm-crypt in the Linux kernel. I spent a couple paragraphs explaining to you why dm-crypt was better than Apple's proprietary solution, I'd encourage you to go back and read it.

So my "point" hasn't changed, but what exactly is yours?

Re:Convenient

[Plumpaquatsch]

My original point was that it all seems rather convenient Apple would create an unnecessary controversy in a year with declining sales. s

Oh, sorry. I completely forgot about your weird-ass conspiracy theory while you distracted me with your ignorance about iPhone encryption and Android's lack of security.

Re:Convenient

[tom229]

I'll be happy to consider any evidence or reasoned argument you have for that claim. You know, those things I've supplied that you're wilfully ignoring? Hyperbole and conjecture won't work here.

Re:Convenient

[Plumpaquatsch]

I'll be happy to consider any evidence or reasoned argument you have for that claim. You know, those things I've supplied that you're wilfully ignoring? Hyperbole and conjecture won't work here.

For what exactly? That Google is just as ready to give out data to LEOs (because that's the fucking law in case you wondered)? https://www.google.com/transparencyreport/userdatarequests/legalprocess/ Are you actually too stupid to find those?

Re:Apple is dying

[quantaman]

Apple is one giant bubble that's starting to pop. I'm amazed at how many people are totally in love with Apple and are incapable of seeing things objectively. It's like investment decisions are all being made by Apple fanbois.

I was an Apple fanboy as a kid but I have to say in the past few years their interface is getting absolutely awful.

Sure it looks nice, but they've gone so far towards simplicity it's becoming unusable if you ever stray the tiniest bit off their standard use-case.

On my Android I have a button to bring up a configuration screen for any application, for iOS it's a mystery for each app.

My mother's iPad stopped ringing on incoming calls. Why? I haven't the foggiest idea.

I wanted to print to file from her iPad, it turned out to be hidden in some unlabelled button in an unlabelled expander.

The OS X seems to have gone to a model of zero feedback.

My laptop bugged me to upgrade to El Capitan, I clicked download, the download button greyed out, and I never got another piece of feedback. I don't know if it's downloading, downloaded, or simply stuck. I'm guessing it failed because the same thing happened a few months earlier. Same with importing photos from Mail to iPhoto, click to import, and no feedback, no idea if they imported or not, or to where.

I don't know what's gotten into their coolaid but I wouldn't consider them to be remotely user friendly. My Linux boxes much more usable and easy to troubleshoot when there is a problem.

Re:Apple is dying

[The MAZZTer]

I'm amazed at how many people are totally in love with Apple and are incapable of seeing things objectively.

I have a very specific example myself: after hanging out a bit on /r/steam on reddit, I have discovered there are a surprising number of people who can't seem to understand why Valve won't make a Windows Phone version of the Steam mobile authenticator. A quick search of mobile market share should enlighten anyone.

Beleaguered Apple

[spoot]

Can we start saying "Beleaguered Apple" again, like back in the '90s? That was so much fun!

Re:Not "cool" anymore

[Sarten-X]

A machine that would commonly (audio / visual production installs) be rack mounted in a different room to the operator.

Sonnet makes some very nice rackmount kits for new Mac Pros. There are also shelves, rails, and hangars from other vendors to mount it in pretty much any orientation. What's your point?

As someone said

[PinkyGigglebrain]

we've hit "peak smartphone".

The people who want one, have one. The only thing that is going to drive smart phone sales now is occasional replacement and hardware upgrades.

Apple's profits will drop a bit and then level off at a sustainable level. Expecting to maintain continual growth in a finite market is just not possible.

Re: Apple is dying

[WarJolt]

Most of the stuff people use their computers or phones for is already browser based or soon will be. The slight UI differences between accessing browsers via iOS, OS X, Windows, Linux or Android isn't worth paying a premium for. When it comes to hardware specs Apple has lost the lead.

In the long term OSS seems to win out and I don't have much faith in Apples closed ecosystem. It's too expensive in the long term. In the short term you win.

Re:Poor babies

[EmeraldBot]

Words cannot explain the brilliance of this post. Well done.

Nah, this is a pretty old post, I remember it being pretty popular a few years back. It's a good one, but pretty stale, I wish people put in at least enough effort to be original - or at absolute minimum, to be something more than a crappy repost. (pun most certainly intended)

Re:Apple is dying

[endoboy]

>>My Linux boxes much more usable and easy to troubleshoot when there is a problem.

you're missing the point.... for most users, not having the problem in the first place is worth far more than "ease of debugging" after the problem has happened. I run Linux on my own machines, and force it on my teenagers, but never in a million years would I try to pass it off on my elderly parents.

It's more than this

[tom229]

Apple's entire selling point is that it's fashionable. Poor people can't afford them, and there's a vestigial status attached to them once appropriately awarded for being a better device. The problem is, the iPhone is neither better, nor cool anymore. They did extraordinarily well being "the" phone for almost a decade. Nightclubs are lucky to get 5 years. They even recycled old Samsung ideas like the large screen, much to the desperately-ignored hypocrisy of their rabid fans that spent years decrying "I don't need a big phone, I can use mine with one hand!". It was truly masterful, but all fashion trends come to an end. Apple does not know how to compete without the "cool" advantage, and they no longer have a visionary, with the will to match, at the helm. So expect this to be the beginning of a trend downwards.

Re:It's more than this

[U2xhc2hkb3QgU3Vja3M]

They even recycled old Samsung ideas like the large screen, much to the desperately-ignored hypocrisy of their rabid fans that spent years decrying "I don't need a big phone, I can use mine with one hand!".

Some people do seem to prefer larger phones, but those "rabid fans" are probably the reason why Apple was basically forced to make the 4" iPhone SE.

Re:Apple is dying

[quantaman]

>>My Linux boxes much more usable and easy to troubleshoot when there is a problem.

you're missing the point.... for most users, not having the problem in the first place is worth far more than "ease of debugging" after the problem has happened. I run Linux on my own machines, and force it on my teenagers, but never in a million years would I try to pass it off on my elderly parents.

They'd probably do the same as my elderly mother does with Apple, she either doesn't do what she wants to do or finds some workaround until I show up and try to fix it.

The use-cases of an elderly parent aren't that complicated, read and send email, play videos from the email, browse the web, upload photos, print things, video chat.

Once you get things configured it's all point and click, they don't actually need a command line.

But if things do go wrong it's really easy for me to ssh in and figure out what's going on because the Linux ecosystem is actually designed to anticipate errors, as opposed to my Mac where I can't tell the difference between an error and stupid interface design.

Re:Apple is dying

[Wild_dog!]

The iPad is a tablet.
The Surface is a computer.

Not sure how they are really in competition really.
They function differently.

The kids use the iPad every day and get great use out of it.
Not sure I could say the same if they had a Surface.

Re:Two words

[kuzb]

My laptop has removable ram, and it's only 3 years old.

Too many models

[ChunderDownunder]

Just look at the Mac compare page, it's like John Sculley in the early 90s. What market segment does the Air serve awkwardly between the plain and Pro models?

Not to mention the iPad Pro has, arguably, a 'better' screen than any Macbook, for those who prefer vertical pixels.

Re:Too many models

[Plumpaquatsch]

Just look at the Mac compare page, it's like John Sculley in the early 90s.

Errm - Nope. Not even by a long shot.

And if you want to complain that comparison doesn't include iPhones and iPads of today - neither does it include various Newton products, the QuickTake camera, the long line of printers etc. Apple sold back then.

The Power of the Brand

[seoras]

Apple's earnings came with the line: " The company currently holds $233 billion in cash and marketable securities ".
Holy hell, that's a stupid amount of cash in hand to have at your disposal.

What's Tesla worth right now?
I'd love to see Musk team up with Cook as he's the closest living thing to Jobs.

Sure there's a lot of Tesla lovers who hate Apple but I'll bet there's a shit load more Apple fans who'd buy a Tesla if it had an Apple on it's ass.
It's not just the cars, I love Tesla's entry into the home power market with their wall mounted batteries.
If you want disruption you need to get into some new markets. 10 years ago Apple didn't sell phones.
Computing devices have almost reached commodity stagnation. The App market has been and gone.

There's so much going on in power, renewables and the changing global weather patterns.
Believe in global warming or not this area provides a huge marketing opportunity.

Re:The Power of the Brand

[IHateGrapes]

Apple definitely has enough cash to buy Tesla. It has enough cash to buy GM, Ford, and the rest of the American auto industry. Combined.

Re:The Power of the Brand

[Actually, I do RTFA]

Any money trapped in China is likely to find the Chinese, not American, government the largest obstacle to repatriotization.

Re:The Power of the Brand

[Plumpaquatsch]

Apple definitely has enough cash to buy Tesla. It has enough cash to buy GM, Ford, and the rest of the American auto industry. Combined.

Now the only question is: why the fuck would they want to do that?

Re: The Power of the Brand

[seoras]

We can finally be rid of Android then? :)

Re: Two words

[Rosyna]

Oh, so that means your laptop doesn't support InstantGo/Connected Standby, which requires soldered RAM for security reasons (to prevent cold boot attacks).

Re: Two words

[kuzb]

It doesn't, and I'm fine with that.

Re:Apple is dying

[quantaman]

"But if things do go wrong it's really easy for me to ssh in and figure out what's going on because the Linux ecosystem is actually designed to anticipate errors, as opposed to my Mac where I can't tell the difference between an error and stupid interface design."

Care to elaborate? From a SSHing in and fixing the issue standpoint I am not seeing any difference that you would encounter between a Darwin system and Linux distro that would fall into "regular userland issue".

From an application perspective Linux apps are generally designed with command line users in mind. You're a lot more likely to find human readable configuration files, online resources that explain how to fix things in the configs, a rich toolkit pre-installed, and if there's something extra you need there's a ton of troubleshooting apps trivially installable with yum or apt.

Sure there's fink and other package repositories for Apple but they're much sparser, not as well maintained, tend to conflict with eachother, and require a bunch hoops to install XCode and such. Basically Linux makes it way easier for me toubleshoot.

Oh, and on the topic of usability I just took another look at the App Store and found the El Capitan screen where I clicked a button that said "Download" and got no feedback, just some busy window indication forever.

Now there's a pretty picture of some mountains and the words "OS X El Capitan A refined experience... yadda yadda".

At the side there's a box that says "Downloaded".

Yay!! I did downloaded it! Now what next???

Hmm, underneath the pretty picture there's big letters "No Updates Available".

Ok, so I know I downloaded it... but how do I install it? There's no install button, there's no any button, just "Downloaded" and "No Updates", maybe that means it was installed? Do I have to go somewhere else to install?

Wait! I see some small text! It's a link! "Learn more"! Yay! Information!!

A new page comes up! And there's a button! There's only one button, this is Apple after all. But I can click it!

And the text on this wonderful button says.....

Download...

F U Apple and your El Capitan download mind games!!!!.

Re:what a coincidence

[RubberDogBone]

Know anyone who has Project Fi service? If so, maybe you could borrow their Fi sim to see if will work in the S7.

I like my Fi service but I hate the Nexus 6 phone they "make" you use. In theory, an activated Fi sim can be used in any unlocked GSM LTE handset. This is something I really want to do.

Re:Two words

[macs4all]

My laptop has removable ram, and it's only 3 years old.

So does my 3 year old MacBook Pro.

But I said (or rather, implied) that NOW you would be hard-pressed to find a laptop that was a NEW design (that is, the most recent model) that has removable RAM.

Re: Two words

[macs4all]

Oh, so that means your laptop doesn't support InstantGo/Connected Standby, which requires soldered RAM for security reasons (to prevent cold boot attacks).

WTF is that? Is that a Windows thing, or what?

Re:Or...the pile is not as big as you think

[Lawrence_Bird]

Apple has already blown half that pile by taking out $100B in combined bonds and 'special' debt in order to buy back stock and pay dividends. By the time they are finished with this buy back program nearly all of that cash will have been spent.

Re:Apple is dying

[aaarrrgggh]

I will quickly admit to being an Apple fan, but they do seem to have a number of issues they just don't feel are worth fixing. Preview app is the one that pisses me off the most; it used to be a great viewer with built-in annotation options that rivaled Acrobat. But now the market has moved, and Bluebeam is the hot shit in that area. And Preview went 18 months being completely unusable (now fixed in that sense, but some updates slow things down and others speed things up).

They do need to get back to basics on a number of issues, and usability is one of them.

That said, compared to Windows it is still great in my world. Native ssh, rsync, and all the consistent UNIX commands is great. Compared to Linux... well they have their own systemd, which complicates things. They have a equally schizophrenic security model with pluses and minuses.

But to your complaint on logging, Console does a pretty good job filtering through content even if I prefer grep.

Re:The Web 2.0 bubble is finally bursting!

[hidflect]

Yeah, agreed. You left out how 3D printing was gonna be the next big thing.

Re:Or...the pile is not as big as you think

[Plumpaquatsch]

Apple has already blown half that pile by taking out $100B in combined bonds and 'special' debt in order to buy back stock and pay dividends. By the time they are finished with this buy back program nearly all of that cash will have been spent.

And yet the pile is higher than before. Must be blowing up the pile.

Re:Apple is dying

[macs4all]

But if things do go wrong it's really easy for me to ssh in and figure out what's going on because the Linux ecosystem is actually designed to anticipate errors, as opposed to my Mac where I can't tell the difference between an error and stupid interface design.

Sounds like a combination of lack of knowledge and bias, both on your part.

You can ssh into a Mac, too; or you can simply use any VNC Client to do "Screen Sharing" with a Mac (e.g., when on my work Win7 laptop, I use TightVNC). In fact, you can even launch a separate OS X session (using another User Account), and not disturb the GUI of the local user. Note: This capability even allows multiple VNC Clients to use the same Mac simultaneously. Try THAT with Windows out of the box...

Guess you need a little knowledge on remote Mac Administration. Here's an article on "Screen Sharing". And here's how to enable ssh on OS X (hint: the "Screen Sharing" (VNC) Enable is in the same place)

Prop Them Up Like Tesla

[njhunter]

Let's prop them up like Tesla, with the indirect and direct government help (and like GM).

Re:Two words

[Blaskowicz]

Easy, go to some decent on-line place and look at regular 15" etc. laptops, NOT crapblets, tablatops and netbooks and i7 netbooks.
Most have RJ45 etc. and a couple DRAM slots.
Rotating hard drives still widespread but you may not get one, or repurpose it as external back up. Even HDD + SSD is an option (out of the box). Get Asus, MSI, Gigabyte, perhaps Acer then the power connector is a universal featureless round one too.

What if iOS v Android == MacOS v Windows?

[walterbyrd]

What if Android is overtaking iOS in phones, in the same way that Windows overtook MacOS in PCs? For those who don't remember: Apple nearly went bankrupt in the 1990s.

Apple had the same philosophy with PCs in the 1990s that Apple has now with smart phones: super high margins, everything proprietary. Apple expects to be worshiped to the point that Apple does not need to have a better value.

From what I have been reading, the Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge beats the iPhone in several respects.

It is my understand that Samsung beat Apple to the punch in the following:

higher resolution camera
heart rate monitor
big display
amoled display
water resistant
wireless charging
1080p display
answer by waving
wirelessly sharing photos
controlling a TV

Re:The Web 2.0 bubble is finally bursting!

[Blaskowicz]

I don't think the few social media top dogs are going away soon. Nor a few ones in the "sharing economy" (i.e. the one for car rides, the one for black market short duration housing rentals)
But outside a few pseudo-monopolistic giants ?
How ironic that the internet has come to this. People are walled off each in a few services, aggregator sites or filtering bubbles. Movies/TV used to think we'd go in universal VR chatrooms, just like a 3D IRC. Perhaps it's time to learn some HTML 3.2

Re: Two words

[dgatwood]

Oh, so that means your laptop doesn't support InstantGo/Connected Standby, which requires soldered RAM for security reasons (to prevent cold boot attacks).

How is socketed RAM a security issue? More to the point, how is InstantGo not just a Microsoft knock-off of Apple's "dark wake" (which was supported long before soldered RAM, but which I think does require an SSD)?

Re:Two words

[macs4all]

Easy, go to some decent on-line place and look at regular 15" etc. laptops, NOT crapblets, tablatops and netbooks and i7 netbooks. Most have RJ45 etc. and a couple DRAM slots. Rotating hard drives still widespread but you may not get one, or repurpose it as external back up. Even HDD + SSD is an option (out of the box). Get Asus, MSI, Gigabyte, perhaps Acer then the power connector is a universal featureless round one too.

But, as I said, those are last-generation designs. Anything NEW coming out of most, if not all, laptop mfgs. WILL have Soldered-In RAM. Apparently, in the Wintel world, it is even DICTATED by Microsoft for some sort of "Sleep/Standby" standard (name escapes me) that has existed since Windows 8 to prevent "cold boot attacks".

And since Apple also OFFICIALLY supports Windows (through BootCamp), I would bet that that weighed into their decision to switch to soldered RAM.

So, curiously enough, if you're looking for the REAL "bad guy" when it comes to the universal switch to Soldered RAM (in both the Mac and Wintel worlds), look no farther than MICROSOFT, not Apple.

Jus' Sayin'...

Re:Apple is dying

[Dixie_Flatline]

The Mac App Store is a particular weak point of Apple's. It very often seems like its been totally abandoned, and it causes almost as many problems as it solves. Unsurprisingly, it's the Apple faithful that complain the most about it, because it's a really glaring sore point in an otherwise very competent ecosystem. I never use it anymore. I was excited at first, but I can almost always find the app I need better using google, and more of my money goes direct to the developer that way. I prefer the app store model on the phone, but it's really been a bust on the Mac.