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Intel Wants To Eliminate The Headphone Jack And Replace It With USB-C (9to5mac.com)
An anonymous reader writes: With rumors circulating about how Apple may do away with the 3.5 mm headphone jack on its upcoming iPhone 7, Intel has shared a similar desire, citing "industry singling a strong desire to move from analog to digital." Intel believes USB-C is the future audio jack. They believe USB-C has more potential than the 3.5mm audio jack as it allows users to add additional smart features to headphones in the future. For instance, a future pair of headphones could monitor one's pulse or inner-ear temperature for fitness tracking, something that could only be possible if the headphones were connected to a smartphone via a USB-C cable. What's also worth mentioning [quoted from 9to5Mac]: USB-C already supports analog audio transfer through sideband pins simplifying the engineering steps necessary to swap 3.5mm with USB-C in device designs. In the second quarter, Intel should have a finalized USB-C standard for digital audio transfer. Intel does note that the transition from analog to digital will be expensive as the headphones have to include amplifiers and DACs, but scale will offset the early costs over time.
How about customer desire? I like my headphone jacks simple and robust, thanks.
I certainly could do without yet another converter and I don't feel like replacing my perfectly serviceable, simple and robust, headphones.
"USB-C has more potential ... as it allows users to add additional smart features..."
More to the point, it allows manufacturers to build DRM into the setup, so that this DRM decryption will happen inside headphones, instead of on the computer.
Not that this will stop determined rippers, but will make it easier to stop grandma from making a copy of her albums for use in her car.
Charging while using the headphones. Needs to be possible, or else this is an awful idea. The times when that particular case may arise may be few, but when it does, it's going to be really annoying.
I can't imagine that this wouldn't be considered, but no article I've read about this has mentioned it, unfortunately.
So that means batteries, or pulling power from the source device ... yaaaaay(!)
So not only you monitor what we listen and say, but also our hearthbeat and temperature ?!? Aren't electronic devices getting a bit too close to this device?!?
I can get headphones, not good ones mind you, but still headphones, for $3-10. They're perfectly functional for what I do. They also break or get lost frequently.
I've tried more expensive ones, but they break as well.
What will USB-C and the necessary DSP do except make headphones more expensive? I understand that there may be more options to 'tune' the DSPs to the individual headphone, but my hearing is damaged enough that I don't think it matters.
I don't read AC A human right
Intel has shared a similar desire, citing "industry singling a strong desire to move from analog to digital."
And by "industry" they mean "intel". I think most makers of headphones or things using headphones would very much prefer to keep their existing processes rather than retool, especially as this likely won't go down well with their customers.
Intel believes USB-C is the future audio jack.
Of course they do because they make and sell (and license?) USB3 chipsets.
They believe USB-C has more potential than the 3.5mm audio jack as it allows users to add additional smart features to headphones in the future.
You can already buy USB headphones and they work perfectly with any computer if you want "smart features". I in fact have precisely one pair: a USB headset with a mic. It has some "smart features" I never use. Mostly I have it because my old headset was dual jack, not 4 pole and I got the USB one for free. There's no advantage of the "smart" one over the old analog one.
For instance, a future pair of headphones could monitor one's pulse or inner-ear temperature for fitness tracking,
That is literally the most pointless thing I have ever heard.
something that could only be possible if the headphones were connected to a smartphone via a USB-C cable.
That's great, but if you instead connected the headphones to a 13A plug (and used ethernet-over-mains to transfer the audio) they could also double as a hairdrier!
What's also worth mentioning [quoted from 9to5Mac]: USB-C already supports analog audio transfer through sideband pins simplifying the engineering steps necessary to swap 3.5mm with USB-C in device designs.
Um that's nice, and kinda strange. So now we'll have perfectly good analog headphones able to work with a cheap adapter, but we'll also have to use up one of the precious and relatively fragile USB-C ports instead of using the dedicated, robust audio one.
In the second quarter, Intel should have a finalized USB-C standard for digital audio transfer.
Well it was nice of them to unfinalize it in the first place given that we've only had an audio over USB spec for nearly two decades.
http://www.usb.org/developers/...
I can buy any random audio device, jack it into my old and busted USB1, 2 or 3 (and presumably type C) port and it will work with no drivers. So what the hell is this new spec meant to be? Do they actually include an inner ear temperature monitor in the spec? What about an atmospheric pressure and humidity monitor? And maybe a seismograph? What about something to measure the level of crap on my desk when I put my headphones down?
Intel does note that the transition from analog to digital will be expensive as the headphones have to include amplifiers and DACs, but scale will offset the early costs over time.
It won't be an expensive transition it will stay expensive since every pair of new headphones will need the digital stuff. They will always be mroe expensive to make than analog headphones because they are identical plus extra crap. Extra crap always costs more.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
I want to see their faces when they clash with the music production and entertainment industry, and the now vogue audiophile (...and pseudo-audiophile) community. They may well attempt to do so in the consumer world, but premium audio is all the rage these days and people won't want to downplay their expensive, high-res audio streaming services due to hardware companies wanting to save on ports, space, and that cumbersome DAC that occupies as much board as a 3g module. And yeah, I know the source is digital and the conversion process is lossy. But you go tell that to them vinyl lovers
Noting the way headphone cables are used and abused, I would suggest that making them fibre-optic is a truly terrible idea, unless while I wasn't paying attention someone has invented an optic fibre that can stand being kinked, crushed, tangled, treated roughly on a daily basis.
In most gadgets the USB plug is the most flimsy part which breaks far too often and now they want us to abuse it even more? Also, tell me, how are we supposed to wear headphones and charge the phone at the same time (wireless charging is often not an option)?
A 3.5mm jack is sturdy as hell, perhaps that's what all this fuss is about. They want us to replace our headphones, gadgets and pay service centers a lot more.
Last but note least this "upgrade" will cost the consumer an arm and a leg, since from now on headphones will have to include their own DAC chip which doesn't come for free.
And laaaaaaaaaag. Regular BT has 300ms lag, and even the very best BT headphones+transmitter have more than 60ms lag in real world applications. That may be cool for lag-aware applications that just do local playback of video, but for anything live and general video review it's simply infuriating.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
There are reasons to add USB-C connectors to PCs(if nothing else, a baseline USB-C connector is just a USB3 connector that works with USB-C cables; and depending on the situation it can also have additional advantages, as a replacement for various proprietary laptop charge ports, as an alternate-mode video-out, etc.); but what this proposal will do is make it even less predictable(and it's already fairly unpredictable) what a given USB-C port will or will not be capable of.
USB-C supports analog audio through the sideband pins, so a given port might support ordinary passive headphones with nothing more than a mechanical adapter or change in connector. However, on a device with more than one USB-C port, or with USB-C ports that predate this plan, it isn't likely that all the USB-C ports have analog audio, so those passive headphones will only work on certain ports, perhaps none; but 'active' headphones with a USB audio chipset will work on any of them(including USB1.1 or better ports with a mechanical adapter). For extra fun, if USB-C headphones become ubiquitous, even devices without any USB functions will probably want to implement sideband-only USB-C ports, so people can plug headphones into them; but those will only work with passive headphones since they won't actually have a USB host controller.
As with a number of USB-C design decisions, this seems like a pretty good idea if all you care about is bleeding edge cellphones; a troublesome-but-probably-worth-it one if all you care about is cellphones and ultra-skinny laptops; but a morass of confusion and suffering the more broadly you try to make it work. The USB-C port already suffers from the 'might be capable of anything, only actually promises to be capable of almost nothing' and this will only expand that unpleasant aspect.
How about customer desire? I like my headphone jacks simple and robust, thanks.
Nothing wrong with that. There is a real beauty in simple. However what might be optimal for you is not necessarily optimal for the majority. There is a saying in manufacturing that local maximums make for global minimums. Basically you can optimize one person's or group's requirements so much that it actually makes the overall system worse. For example for myself I almost never plug headphones into my phone. When I do connect it to an audio system I usually do it via wifi (home) or bluetooth (car). The audio jack really just is a place where dust gets into my phone and provides me no utility at all. So if we cater to your desires we are by extension making the product worse for me. Eventually something has to give.
I manufacture wire harnesses for a living. Believe me when I say that I appreciate the beauty of a simple interface better than most. But at some point keeping things simple starts holding back progress. I think we've just about reached that point with the 3.5mm jack.
I certainly could do without yet another converter and I don't feel like replacing my perfectly serviceable, simple and robust, headphones.
You wouldn't have to replace them. At worst you'd have to get a small adapter for them. I understand you not wanting to but I think the writing is on the wall on this one. The 3.5mm jack forces too many design compromises for it to remain in place forever.
Phono jacks are a global standard for audio connectivity. They are an old standard, yes. Very old. But there's no reason to try and make it obsolete. It's perfectly suited to it's task, and we are so path dependant now that making such a huge change requires more than the availability of a potential replacement tech. If there isn't a pressing need for a replacement, like a serious engineering or tech limitation, why bother?
I know why Apple would want to 'bother' - shitty behavior. USB-C means they can lock out 3rd party headphones and force everyone to buy their own.
The real reason is to close the analog hole and add DRM to even your headphones.
"For instance, a future pair of headphones could monitor one's pulse or inner-ear temperature for fitness tracking, something that could only be possible if the headphones were connected to a smartphone via a USB-C cable."
Complete and utter BS. Bluetooth can do this right now and honestly wireless is the answer not a freaking special DRM encumbered digital connection. the reason everyone sticks to analog is because there is zero need for complex electronics in the headphones making them CHEAP. USB-C will require the DtoA and amp to reside in the headphones making them no different than bluetooth headphones except they have added DRM.
And that is what this is all really about... Intel desperately wants headphone DRM.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Oh, I don't doubt that HDCP will show up(it is Intel's baby after all, even they don't take the lead on pushing it). The real hilarity will arise because a USB-C audio connector using the analog sideband pins won't be 'protected'; while one using the data pins and acting as a USB audio device potentially(but far from certainly) will; so there is epic scope for user confusion about what situations will and won't be broken by DRM. Should be a blast.
At least with video, the 'HDMI, yes, VGA, no." rule is pretty simple.
And also so your new factory sealed headphones can install malware the first time you plug them in. There is no such thing as a secure USB device. No OS handles all USB attack vectors, including Linux.
I will not buy headphones that pose a security risk to my devices. Why can't simple things stay simple. If you want smart headphones, run another cable along with the audio cable and plug it into two ports, or use wireless.
Also, doesn't the USB 3 cables carry a lot of power? How safe will ear buds be if there's a nick in the cable and some wires get crossed?
More like a corporate obsession with overly complex solutions to problems ... and non-problems. The Red Queen races on.
For those -- probably not numerous -- situations where digital audio is needed, wouldn't it make for sense to put an ADC in the using device?
This "solution" would seem to require DACs (and amplifiers? (and therefore batteries)) in headphones and completely baffle a lot of non-geek users who would have to deal with three incompatible connectors -- 3.5mm audio, usb-C, usb-C with sidepins. And, of course, USB to usb-C adapter cables will turn up for folks who want to use older devices to drive usb-C devices. But they won't have audio on sidepins because regular USB doesn't support that -- yet. And software problems routing audio to the analog and digital hardware in the source device will probably make things worse.
You can't see ANYTHING from a car, You've got to get out of the goddamned contraption and walk...Edward Abbey
They mention "difficulty delivering quality audio" through the analog channels, and I surely have experienced hum, hiss and static interference on analog headphones, but... reseating the connector to get a better ground, re-routing carelessly placed intermediate cables, etc. usually can dramatically improve the situation, even in cheap headphones.
On the other hand, every single pair of sub $100 digital headphones I have ever used have a ton of digital hiss in the background, and there's nothing you can do about it other than adjust your expectations of what signal to noise ratio should be when listening to quiet music.
So very much this - I can't tell you how many times I've run a headphone cable over with an office chair.
If I had to buy a new $20 cable every time, I'd be pissed.
Also: this is all fine and dandy for people using headphones, but what about people that plug actual audio gear into their PC / Laptop, such as an amplifier? Instead of line out, we're now using some shit adapter that adds noise or ground loop hum due to not being built right in order to get the same connectivity, should the device not have TOSLINK or S/PDIF on it, which would be the first things to go in a world where even 3.5mm doesn't exist.
It slightly makes sense to come up with something to replace the 3.5mm TRS for a phone because of volume constraints (though it's still a bad idea), but when you have the volume of a PC or laptop, it's just anti-customer garbage.
Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
That's a red herring, though, as anybody who has ever worked with pro audio equipment will confirm. Intel's audio (or that of your graphics card) hisses, because of their crappy drivers and circuitry, not because there is something wrong with the headphone jack. This stuff is so bad that you even need to disable it in the BIOS/EFI if you don't use it at all in order to get good audio performance.
You can easily test that for yourself by buying a high quality audio interface and plugging in a pair of high quality headphones.
1) USB connectors -- ALL of them -- are less robust than audio jacks. They're going to fail sooner. Guaranteed.
2) There are a bazillion analog headphone / earbud options. Do you want them obsoleted?
3) DRM. Do you want it? Ever pipe the output of your phone/pad elsewhere? Say goodbye to that.
4) We already have bluetooth if you want digital, plus, no wires, an actual reason to use it.
5) Digital wiring tends to generate RF interference. Analog wiring doesn't. Both can carry RFI from inside the device, but generally don't. Much.
6) Passive analog earbuds are less expensive to manufacture; you'll pay more for digital earbuds, which must be active
7) If anyone thinks an analog option will remain with these connectors, be aware that part of the proffered approach is the ability to "inform the user that analog audio is not supported" based on hardware support choice of the manufacturer; if, knowing that, you still think analog audio will remain an option, I have a bridge to sell you.
The smart thing here is to refuse to purchase anything that uses a USB-C approach to audio headphones. Consumers already let themselves get screwed over hugely by accepting HDMI incorporating HDCP; they're probably about to do it again with this, but there's still an outside chance a similar debacle could be forestalled or prevented.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
If someone's current car happens to support neither Bluetooth audio nor an ISO 7736 aftermarket head unit, I don't see who's willing to spend thousands of dollars for a new car or a newer used car just for Bluetooth audio.
You can buy a bluetooth adapter that plugs into the aux jack of your car for as little as $40. I have done just that and it works great. Even Dewalt makes them. No need to buy a whole new car just for bluetooth since it is trivial to add it to almost literally any existing car with a stereo.
How are we supposed to charge our phones while listening to music with one USB-C jack?
Seems like a pretty common use case, are all USB-C headphones going to come with a charging port?
Also, as pointed out by every other commenter in this thread, now my headphones can give me malware. It WILL happen, right from the factory.
John McAfee needs to lay off the bathsalts for a while and engineer a bacteriaphage to guard our sensitive USB ports.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
There's no shortage of people who make use of audio jacks. Just because you don't use something doesn't mean other people don't.
Never argued otherwise. However you have the argument backwards. I like minimalist devices where you add features you need/want rather than complicated devices that come with features you'll never use. Many people listen to music via the 3.5mm jack but not all users do. As such adding that feature adds cost and complexity while simultaneously being redundant and reducing the reliability of the device. It's like when everyone was still buying PCs with floppy drives because everyone else had them long after they had been rendered redundant by newer technologies.
You're also neglecting the use of audio jacks for other purposes, like for the vision impaired.
I'm not neglecting it at all. Riddle me this. Exactly what use is a 3.5mm jack to a vision impaired person on a smartphone with no tactile interface. The front is a smooth piece of glass. Headphone jack or not, such a smartphone is mostly useless to them if they are substantially blind and if they aren't then the lack of the jack is of little consequence.
Want some fancy device interaction? Do it over bluetooth.
Or do it over the USB port that is ALREADY on the device and isn't going away. There is nothing the 3.5mm jack does that cannot be replicated in some fashion via USB and/or Bluetooth. A single purpose port on a modern mobile device is an idiotic idea.
If you're that serious about audio quality, you shouldn't use any on-board analog audio. Either use S/PDIF or go with an external DAC.
Alex, I'll take keybindings not used by Emacs for $400....
Wrong.
USB device poses as a keyboard and starts opening terminals and running commands shit the moment you plug it in.