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Without Encryption, Everything Stops, Says Snowden (thehill.com)
An anonymous reader writes about Snowden's appearance on a debate with CNN's Fareed Zakaria: Edward Snowden defended the importance of encryption, calling it the "backbone of computer security." He said, "Encryption saves lives. Encryption protects property. Without it, our economy stops. Our government stops. Everything stops. Our intelligence agencies say computer security is a bigger problem than terrorism, than crime, than anything else," he noted. "[...] Lawful access to any device or communication cannot be provided to anybody without fatally compromising the security of everybody."
Freedom means the right to privacy. Solid encryption offers that privacy. It also gives criminals a way to hide their data from law enforcement. Long before the digital age, that has been going on in dark alleys and secret underground bunkers.
The government sees a way to gain unprecedented power and will stop at nothing to get it.
I find the trade off acceptable. I'd rather see a few more terrorists escape, than face a government that labels all who choose to encrypt a potential criminal, or worse.
No one (to my knowledge) really, truly objects to 'encryption'.
But a lot of governments object to encryption that they don't personally have a master key for.
The things he talks about can mostly be done even if the government has a master key.
The war is not between encryption and no encryption, it is between a government master key and no government master key.
Now, I totally hate the idea of a master key for most thing. (I can see it for special cases, mainly around money - I want the government to be able to undo thefts from large banks). Government has repeatedly proven that it CAN NOT be trusted with this kind of information. The minimal security risks caused by government not having master access to EVERYTHING is insane.
But claiming that the internet depends on the government not having a master key is silly
excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
As soon as you're done thrashing that straw man, how about addressing how completely lacking was this publicity post from Snowden in any sort of contextual nuance. No? Not fun? OK then, go back to talking to yourself and whichever handful of low-information people you're trying to reach with your ... what was your point, exactly? Please be specific.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
>> Our intelligence agencies say computer security is a bigger problem than terrorism, than crime, than anything else
If course they would say that. Their primary concern is informing and sustaining the government. The rest of us are just interchangeable, disposable meatsacks.
The anti-Snowden hipster attacks begin.
"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
A little OTT me thinks
Explain to me how the digital economy works if encryption is broken wide open so that even a script kiddie can break public key encryption?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
From wikipedia:
Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
The things he talks about can mostly be done even if the government has a master key.
This is a fallacy. Evidence is that the government tried this before, and failed hard: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
If Key-Escrow were to actually work and be scalable - don't you think the Great Firewall of China would be using it everywhere?
Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
As soon as you're done thrashing that straw man, how about addressing how completely lacking was this publicity post from Snowden in any sort of contextual nuance.
Contextual nuance? In a few minutes of airtime on CNN?
You're absolutely right. Nothing/nobody should be listened to unless it/they completely addresses every facet of the subject at hand. No abbreviations, no summaries, no abstractions can be permitted. No one in the audience can be expected to have anything else going on in their lives. Nothing but perpetual laserlike monomaniacal focus is acceptable. No one in the audience can be expected to have done any research on this matter beforehand, nor can they be expected to do any afterward.
Now, then, let's do this right. In the beginning, the primal monobloc exploded into space and time... but perhaps we should back up a bit...
How about this: "Encryption is a vitally important tool. But the topic is far more complicated than can be addressed in a short interview, which makes discussing the reality of its wide-spread use by well organized criminals and terrorists impossible in this setting."
In other words, making proclamations about it in the way Snowden did servces no educational purpose, but does keep his own name in the news, which is the only reason he did it.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
Ah, good. Always nice to know we can rely on someone who can't think about or address the substance of the point to simply trot out some lazy, juvenile ad hominem in hopes of chasing away anyone who might point out how vapid-sounding Snowden is when he says things like this without including ANY kind of useful context. Also, you may want to re-examine your understanding of the word "hipster" if you're trying to make someone else look bad. You're using it exactly, precisely the wrong way.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
Difference being: nobody is currently proposing that all sources of ignition be altered to include technical means to trace the fire back to the instigator.
Although I do remember a few decades back the idea was floated to include tiny uniquely coded plastic particles into all firearm propellants. I think that the response from the NRA was no more nuanced than Snowden's blog postings.
So what "real world context" do you want him to inject? Screaming about "what he didn't say" isn't informative, not without telling us what you wanted him to say.
If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
So says Fareed, who also says Snowden is not a "technologist". Fareed keeps mentioning Bill Gates as some sort of all knowing technology god. Bill Gates is a business man with a background in technology. I am more than willing to wager that Snowden has far more expertise in these matters the Bill Gates. Otherwise he would not be in the sanctuary or Russia. I actually sat through the whole debate, and Fareed is so far out of his depth I am left wondering how he was selected at all for his side of the debate. It was so awkward I cringed at times.
Brought to you by Carl's Junior.
Making proclamations about it the way Snowden did is the way you get people emotionally engaged.
Then you go watch John Oliver for something deeper with more analysis.
Then you contact your representatives and give them hell about it and you donate to pro-privacy groups because you are emotionally engaged.
Your position is that he should keep his mouth shut and say nothing of substance. That's not going to be very productive at getting people engaged to address the problem (government and corporations stripping away our privacy).
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
Snowden is 'vapid sounding' because he's popular. That was all the substance I had to work with. It's quite common for nerds to take a non-mainstream stance in order to appear 'cooler' to their colleagues.
To put it another way: You liked Snowden when he was underground.
"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
Ha ha while the pro-Snowden hippies attack in reaction.
You think script kiddies have quantum computers powerful enough to break RSA?
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
well organized criminals and terrorists
Oh dear! Talk about your straw man! And dead horse... not that it will stop the flogging. And "complicated"?* Please. You're such a silly goose... I hope the Emperor's trinkets truly keep you happy.
*No, it is not. I see no reason to grant the state any advantage. In fact, the schadenfreude is great with the small dispersion of power, and in seeing you fret over it.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
You think script kiddies have quantum computers powerful enough to break RSA?
While the thread is referring the the LEA's backdoor legislation... Yes.. Script kiddies do have computers strong enough to break RSA. Their server is your AWS server farm.
gigs of unconstitutional secret shit
Sherry Glied's introduction to the debate provides the context for the debate.
Just taking down encryption is not the banksters goal, their goal is to destroy everything and encryption is a dependency of that.
Oh dear! Talk about your straw man!
You seem to be having some trouble understanding what a rhetorical straw man actually is. Because organized criminals, for example, DO use encrypted communication and storage to hinder law enforcement, mentioning that isn't a case of trotting out a straw man. It's referring to the facts.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
There IS nothing useful to say along those lines unless you're going to go into a long discussion about the ways in which encrypted storage and communication are used, and eventually bringing the conversation around to the fact that there are actual bad guys who do actually awful things, and addressing what matters: actual or possible compromises in his puritanical posturing on the subject, in deference to reality and the bad people who operate within it.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
Yes, and people are stabbed with pencils. You are so hysterical, like a bad 50s TV series... hinder law enforcement.. You're a real Walter Winchell there...
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
It doesn't stop; its just that encryption gets reinvented over and over again. Things like where I send 3 separate communcations with every 3rd word in each of the 3. Or pen and paper encryption. Or software that mathematically scrambles communications but somehow isn't labeled encryption software. Or compression software that happens to have passwords.
Or if encryption is really well banned and the monitoring is really good, then couriers who physically carry the data, and potentially in a form that erases if improperly opened. It just wasn't encrypted in its special storage.
The most likely outcome of banning encryption is to just make even more of us criminals than entertainment downloading already had.
Yes he absolutely did do that and he should be in prison for it. However in this case he is absolutely correct.
Do you have compromises to propose?
If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
> and he should be in prison for it.
So jail the whistleblower ... and do what again with the other government officials that broke the law ??
So you're saying that the economy did not function during that time frame? You're saying that "everything stopped" during the time of the Clipper Chip?
'Cause, I was there - I seem to remember it working.
Do not, of course, think that I'm suggesting we do so again. No, to do so again would be idiotic. I entirely agree that the government are the last people I'd trust with a master key.
I'm just not sure why you'd point to that and say it was a logical fallacy. 'Cause, well... Umm... I was there. The Clipper Chip was there. The economy still functioned and nothing really stopped. It was less than ideal, sure. But, it certainly wasn't stopped. I'm not actually sure why you'd point to it and indicate that it was. It wasn't that long ago. My memory's kind of bad (I do smoke some weed, after all). But, I don't remember everything stopping. I don't remember the economy stopping. I'd probably remember that.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
Ed Snowden himself has demonstrated the problem with government secrets. (Unfortunately) All that it takes is one determined individual to unravel the whole deal.
You must have a good imagination. Clipper chip never actually happened. It was still born.
I dunno, make them president?
They will have computers strong enough to break RSA once the US government legislates a back door in RSA.
That's not even a question.
"Oh my God. This is terrible. This is the end of my Presidency. I'm fucked."; ~ Donald J. Trump
Why would they want to do that? If they did, their power over society would vanish.
That doesn't mean it's better for society to mandate backdoor keys or methods into crypto with the force of law. If anything, snowden's leaks helped show that the US state is among the biggest criminals of all. Are they subject to these backdoors? Of course not. It would violate 'national security'.
I really don't think his value to humanity consists of him spending his airtime talking about what self-entitled theocrats and oligarchs and warlords and just plain kleptocrats want him to talk about. I think his value to humanity consists of him spending his airtime talking about what they _don't_ want him to talk about, because he's one of the few people who actually know that stuff first-hand.
As always, all IMO. Insert "I think" everywhere grammatically possible.
Nothing stops. Nothing... or you will do the hardest time there is. No more protection from the guards. I'll pull you out of that one-bunk Hilton and cast you down with the Sodomites. You'll think you've been fucked by a train! And the library? Gone... sealed off, brick-by-brick. We'll have us a little book barbecue in the yard. They'll see the flames for miles. We'll dance around it like wild Injuns! You understand me? Catching my drift?... Or am I being obtuse?
== Jez ==
Do you miss Firefox? Try Pale Moon.
While he may be right with regards to things that are actually important, I'm really tired of being told that the video of my son taking his first steps needs to be encrypted. I would much rather have the ability to externally mount and recover my data than prevent some shadowy organisation from seeing it. All of these software companies are gleefully encrypting everything on my device, not because they give a shit, but because it's an extra reason for me to use their cloud backup services.
It's like putting an indestructible pad lock on your wallet. If you ever forgot the code the entire contents of your wallet are lost forever. To solve this, your wallet manufacturer (let's say Levis) agrees to hold a copy of all of your important information at their warehouse! All this so some mystical nosy neighbor can't see pictures of my kids.
Encryption had been around for decades and there's a simple reason it has never been on by default: in 99.99999% of cases it causes problems and doesn't really solve any. So please world, start pressuring manufactures to stop turning this on by default. They aren't helping you like you think.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
When/why/how did Snowden become the the prophet of everything security??? It's hiring a serial killer to run a branch of the military...
and do what again with the other government officials that broke the law ??
I suggest liquefying them and spreading them across farm fields for the good of society.
Time to offend someone
Wait...what??
Isn't his the guy that dumped gigs of secret shit?
Yeah, and if it had been encrypted he could not have done that. See the point?
"What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
You think script kiddies have quantum computers powerful enough to break RSA?
Considering that quantum computers don't exist, no they don't.
"What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
Snowden gave them to EVERYONE. And he offered his services to foreign governments, to thwart the US intel services. That latter bit by definition makes him a traitor.
LMAO, you think John Oliver has deep analysis. Joke of the day.
Compared to most news media outlets these days, with pieces literally produced by corporate media departments, he's Edward Fucking R. Murrow.
His pieces have cast light on some dark shadows and resulted in change. Civil Forfeiture for example.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
Perhaps you haven't been paying attention with their screwup in China, they have been on a downward trend and I am still uncertain on if what they did in China was on purpose. Nibiru is approaching and a crashed financial system will insure the masses are not prepared to contend with that, there is also that agenda 21 crap going on too, Obama running around wanting to start WW3 to perform an economic reset. I guess the moral of the story here is never trust a banker, I know I don't because we never got fast food and hookers on the moon and I have a very interesting inside prospective of that I am probably going to share on RT.
Since April 2016, the largest integer factored on a quantum device is 200099, using D-Wave 2X quantum processor [1].
Whether that's really a quantum computer or not (it didn't use Shor's algorithm, but other "quantum" computers have), we're still not in much danger of encryption being broken any time soon.
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
"Bad guys using encryption" is irrelevant. A straw man. Some of us don't believe the state or anybody else has any right to regulate its use. The adversarial nature of authority and the corruption it breeds precludes giving it any advantage. Your subservience is nothing but an appeal to supremacy, like cooperating with the prison guards so they don't beat you until last.
The one good thing coming out of the Snowden story is the increased public awareness. It won't effect the election, but it still diffuses the power a tiny bit. The "frustration" expressed by the cops only adds to the joy, and probably a false sense of security.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
Ask the military to operate without encryption. If they don't die of laughter they probably tuned you out entirely.
How exactly do we protect online shopping carts without encryption?
Or is it OK to protect those things and just not OK to protect person to person communication?
I refuse to sign
Emigrates to where? Many European countries make it hard to Americans to stay there on a semi-permanent basis (and there's usually a language barrier), Canada doesn't want that many more people, and most other countries have those or larger barriers.
Examine even your most deeply held beliefs. Nobody is always right.
Please cite this change lol. If you want to add the criteria of change, Oliver's been dismal.
I think you have some rose-tinted glasses there, bud.
Examine even your most deeply held beliefs. Nobody is always right.
And a large amount of brainwashing too.