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Greenpeace Leaks Big Part Of Secret TTIP Documents (bbc.com)
An anonymous reader writes: The environmental group Greenpeace has obtained 248 pages of classified documents from the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP) trade talks. The group warns EU standards on the environment and public health risk being undermined by compromises with the US, specifically that US corporations may erode Europe's consumer protections. The TTIP would "harmonize regulations across a huge range of business sectors, providing a boost to exporters on both sides of the Atlantic," writes the BBC. After the Greenpeace leak was published, EU Trade Commissioner Cecilia Malmstroem said in her blog, "I am simply not in the business of lowering standards." Meanwhile, Greenpeace EU director Jorgo Riss said, "These leaked documents confirm what we have been saying for a long time: TTIP would put corporations at the center of policy-making, to the detriment of environment and public health." You can be the judge for yourself. The leaked documents are available for download here.
The EFF has a great write up on how the TPP (the trans pacific partnership, another one of these shitpile laws) will affect anyone even remotely interested in technology. It's a great link to send around to anyone who's thinking "I'm not in manufacturing, why should I care?"
It's bad, folks. And even worse because in summer 2015, before the election, before both the GOP (!) and Dem candidate came out against the TPP, Obama fought and beat back his own party to get fast track authority for approval, meaning now it's way easier for it to get approved, with no ability to strip out the bad parts or filibuster against it.
And there are people like yourself that see conspiracies everywhere. Sorry to tell you that the information leaked is probably accurate and most likely doesn't tell the entire story of how awful TTIP will be for the average consumer.
"harmonization" is a deadly form of tyranny. It was used to disappear inexpensive things like cheaper and more advanced supplements that can be used succesfully to help deal with serious illnesses.
Imagine if vitamin D were only available at 1000 iu, more like 20 years ago, and everyone in your family needs 10,000 iu per day to be normal to stay alive. 2-5 cents per day in one system, perhaps $2-5 per day in the other, or your shorter, miserable life.
Imagine what the rest of it will bring. I am not expecting any of it to be benificial to the public.
Global Elitists conspiring behind closed curtains. And Obama is one of them. GOP and DNC are both equally in bed on this one. There is NO functional difference on anything that really matters. The only thing that keeps people divided are bathrooms and sexuality. I guess that's enough of a circus to keep the people distracted while both parties are conspiring against us.
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
Dunno about that, but I passed some some very angry packets that looked
like they was up to no good on the GreenPeace server farm... That site ain't
goin' be up for long, I reckon...
CAP === 'doctor'
Greater effort toward universal compliance should be the objective.
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.
Ernest Hemingway
is in the business of pushing the TTIP through. At any price. There's a lot of talk about how it would increase exports in both directions, but when the single directed economic force that the U.S is meets the EU's myriad of smaller economic forces pushing in their own direction, then the outcome will only favor the U.S and its corporations.
The inevitable and intended outcome of the TTIP is a single US-EU economy dictated by U.S corporations, wholly favoring the U.S. The EU is in control of its own economies today, but the TTIP would change that. The EU MUST reject the TTIP to remain in control of its own economies.
Pretty much. TPP is shit. TTIP is shit. There's one that's missing here. Ah! Here we are. TISA.
Although it is the least well-known of those agreements, it is the broadest in terms of membership. As far as we know, it presently includes twenty countries plus Europe (but notably excluding the major emerging world economies of the BRICS bloc), who, with disdainful levity, have adopted the mantle “the Really Good Friends of Services”. Like its sister agreements, TISA will enact global rules that impact the Internet, bypassing the transparency and accountability of national parliaments. The only difference is that its focus is on services, not goods.
As that blurb sort of indicates, BRICS is mysteriously missing from all of those backroom deals. I'm guessing there's some kind of internet censorship (as in governments being forced to enforce it, not just so-and-so got banned from Twitter "censorship") in TISA as well. Dangerous stuff. I'm fully expecting Clinton to do an about-face and... er... devolve? back to Secretary Clinton's positions once she's in the oval office.
Serious question: Why is any part of a multi national trade deal classified information ? Why is this even a thing? No one has mentioned one single sound reason at any level of discourse why any of this is classified. I do not live under a rock but maybe I should.
...but Greenpeace has been repeatedly shown to be a horrible organization of eco-terrorists who often don't understand the science behind the things they protest. It got so bad even some of the founders left and renounced all ties to the organization. Patrick Moore in particular left them when they decided it was a good idea to try to push a universal ban of chlorine in drinking water. Moore is also known to have done a complete 180 on nuclear power issues once he educated himself on the matter. He has spoken at length about how the organization has very little in the way of scientific direction.
So, there very well may be a problem here - but I'd be entirely sceptical of anything Greenpeace has to say about it.
BeauHD. Worst editor since kdawson.
My God, the US is going to implement all of the consumer standards and protections of the EU market and significantly tighten its environmental and job market regulations! It's going to be Heaven/Hell for the American Democrat/Republican!
Yes, but so far, almost all such leaks have turned out to be genuine. So one must ask, why would someone question them without evidence?
Learn to love Alaska
china is not part of this and there environment is not even up to the level of this.
TPP is shit. TTIP is shit.
It is funny to see Americans complain about the shit in these agreements, when the worst shit was put there by their own government.
These trade agreements could be a force for good in the world, raising environmental standards and labor rights, while spreading prosperity. But instead, America uses them to push the worst aspects of our capitalist system onto other countries, like draconian IP laws and disregard for consumer privacy.
TTIP would put corporations at the center of policy-making, to the detriment of environment and public health."
Yes. The trade partnership agreement will see corporations at the center of policy making... not like what we have now.
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.
Ernest Hemingway
In the US, questionable items, like GMO, fracking, meds, hormons of various kinds etc. are allowed until proven harmful by scientific methods. In EU, questionable items are generally not allowed unless proven harmless by scientific methods (probably not quite true looking at the radioactive waste disposal issue - surely harmful to some extent - has not been resolved there).
So, who is the test animal?
Can be gotten from there: https://www.ttip-leaks.org/
Seems to be only a small part - couple of 100 pages of several thousand, as the whole secrete pile apparently is.
Why is it secret? Because it is dirty!
Sounds like so.eo e is getting paid to troll
and once again, like with User Privacy and 'Safe Harbors' for Personal Data it may be up to the EU to save us from the 'Land of the Free' (tm)
-I'm just sayin'
This just makes it official rather than implied.
"Be particularly skeptical when presented with evidence confirming what you already believe." -
Lemme see, the same jerks who scared everybody away from nuclear power ,and thereby killed us with global warming want to tell us more bull crap
Doesn't need to be a conspiracy ,greed will suffice
Was there a conspiracy making the tobacco industry to lie for decades,and expending millions in political lobbying, propaganda, and misinformation?
what about the oil companies with the leaded fuel?
we can add dozens of examples that we know
Large corporations carry a lot of cloth this day and only serve to their shareholders, it that means going above national laws, they won't lose any sleep over it
There actually is a conspiracy, corporations vs. humans.
putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
Why is it funny? Is it funny when your government is corrupt and works against you?
putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
.......fix all these matters.
Trust in Him.
...but Greenpeace has been repeatedly shown to be a horrible organization of eco-terrorists who often don't understand the science behind the things they protest.
That's a very important distinction to make, it's completely on-point and relevant to the current discussion.
We simply *cannot* judge the validity of the TTIP documents without taking their provenance and history of Greenpeace into account!
Amiright?
Agreement let's corporation sue governments for doing their job and win every time. Makes corporations sovereign and governments unable to act on behalf of their citizens.
FTA:
The TTIP would "harmonize regulations across a huge range of business sectors, providing a boost to exporters on both sides of the Atlantic"...
Translation:
The TTIP would "gut governmental control and oversight in as many business sectors as we can get away with, putting even more power in the hands of corporations and further screwing over average citizens on both sides of the Atlantic..."
It's amazing how much longer that sentence becomes when you look past the Orwellian euphemisms to what's really being said.
'The Economy' is a giant Ponzi scheme whose most pitiable suckers are the youngest among us and the yet-unborn.
Because greenpeace's lies and conspiracy theories have been the leading cause of global war,ign since the 1960's. Without those evil fuckers, we would have reduced our CO2 emissions at least 3:1 over the past 20 years instead of increasing them. Without their NiMBYism, electric cars would have been economically viable 8 years ago instead of "hopefully in the next 5 years".
Do you believe they forged 248 pages of the TTIP?
It's turtles all the way down.
Why is that funny? The US Government hasn't represented the American people for years.
At least now corporations have to bribe politicians in each country separately. With this agreement they just have to bribe some judges.
Join the party mofo's, we had threats of AGOA being recinded to force crappy American chicken (tainted with cyanide) on us. So unless I raised the damn chicken myself there will be no chicken for me for the next 4 years.
There are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third is statistics.
And we have another foreign asshole who thinks the American Government == the American People*.
Do you honestly think that we would WANT to give Multinational Corporations control over local laws and policy? When we fear giving control to others so much that we refused to ratify and have practically withdrawn from the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court? Give me a break.
The reason we complain is because we ALSO disagree with the provisions in the treaties.
BTW: Do you think we want Hillary vs. Trump come November? Most sane people here don't. We are trying to fix things, but it's taking a lot of time and effort and we are fighting against a severely well-prepared opponent. Change is not gonna happen overnight. Especially so given the fact that we're trying to avoid the the 4th box, and it's required bloodbath.
One thing that I will ask you is this: Why is it that you and your governments are so willing to allow the known corrupt US government to dictate policy to the world? Why is it that whenever the US says "Bend over." your governments do so? Why is it always the fault of the American People* that the WORLD allows the tyranny of the US government to spread beyond it's borders? Granted we need to do our part as well, but the idea that the rest of the world happily allows the US government to have it's way is just as questionable as the "unwillingness" of the American People to do their job of controlling their government.
* Note: When I say American People I mean the meatsacks, not the multinational entities known as "Corporations".
Obama recently visited the UK, and urged us to remain in the EU, citing international agreements such as the TTIP and pointing out that if we left we'd no longer be a part of them.
Best reason to leave the EU, ever!
Your argument is nuts. But lets assume it is not. The easiest way to defeat the claims made by Greenpeace would be to release the present state of results.
What about the standard bs line they always give us on surveillance... if you've done nothing wrong, there is no need to hide anything.
this document should be open to the public in the first place.
When he says it's funny, what he means is that he saw all of this a long time ago and he's generally smarter and better. That's predominantly what he means.
US regulations may move towards Europe's.
America can never compete with China on a price per widget basis. The TPP is designed to screw up economic efficiency.
The grand plan is IP and invisibles, and reverse head offices with offshore tax havens will save their economic bacon. Except if is a US drug co - showing how ungrateful and disloyal they are - after penning the agreements.
The Australian Free trade agreement has been a disaster for both countries. Rather than Australia pay more for everything, our drugs, pharmaceuticals are sourced from China and India, while Thailand ships in cars with no import tariffs, while electronic media drops in value.
Heavy machinery from Korea or Japan, French Subs. Ar relative 30% currency disadvantage means USA and Switzerland are shunned by buyers.
Now Apple is seeing the China market shrink - because not everyone is riding on a high $USD,
In return 2% of Australia's landmass (sell more beef) is valued at a mere 300 million - yep beans! Those nasty US quotas ensure US jobs are protected somewhat, while Australia becomes the first OECD country to de-industrialise and wind up car manufacturing. negating beef exports.
Its not all bad - USA won that round. The trouble is China is filling in the value added gap, making China rich and giving them the means to make new islands.
In short, USA companies teaching China how to do it right and moving offshore have obliterated the gains the could have been made. If Pfizer and others make another 'legal' move is going to really get the message that IP is fungible. And the jobs go offshore to boot.
It wouldn't be beyond the real of possibility if someone made up at least some data, put it into some other pages of information and then leaked it to a group that's desperate for attention and donations.
I'd be more worried about why the negotiations are in secret and why they don't want anyone who basically isn't actively involved or stands to profit from it to even see the thing than some charity trying to grab attention. The one trying to avoid attention is usually more worthy of it than he who seeks.
Wanna buy a shirt?
https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
Lemme see, the same jerks who scared everybody away from nuclear power ,and thereby killed us with global warming want to tell us more bull crap
Bullshit claim aside this attitude is the problem. Who gives a shit if we poison and destroy the world and by extension ourselves as long as we can make shit cheaper to make and more expensive to sell? Who gives a shit about the plebs who live in the shadow of our unregulated facilities that can do whatever the fuck they like? Going back to your bullshit example, nuclear power is perfectly fine if done properly, but doing it properly is expensive and threatens the bottom line if they have to worry about not radiating everything and disposing of the waste in a safe and sustainable way. The costs of that is why nuclear power dwindled, because it's cheaper with more profit to do it the old shit way.
Wanna buy a shirt?
https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
We are easily distracted.
TTIP would put corporations at the center of policy-making, to the detriment of environment and public health."
Yes. The trade partnership agreement will see corporations at the center of policy making... not like what we have now.
It just gives them a seat at the table rather than having to bother with all that expensive lobbying and bribery, which are of course, barriers to trade.
Wanna buy a shirt?
https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
Obama recently visited the UK, and urged us to remain in the EU, citing international agreements such as the TTIP and pointing out that if we left we'd no longer be a part of them.
Best reason to leave the EU, ever!
Yeah but can you imagine scameron and his tory mates with no oversight? We'd be worse off than the victorians!
Wanna buy a shirt?
https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
I think you need the help of a certain french invention of the late 1700's.
Yes. The trade partnership agreement will see corporations at the center of policy making... not like what we have now.
So, you're saying that there is some sort of trade federation, backed by a shadowy figure trying to control everything.... ..... I have a bad feeling about this .....
"The best part? I became an ordained minister while not wearing pants." -- CleverNickName
The nuclear power industry is fully capable of doing that itself. EDF - Years late, massive cost overruns, need guaranteed electricity prices 3x current rates for new UK reactor (but still maybe unviable) yadda yadda.
Greenpeace are irrelevant in this sorry tale.
The current UK government has effectively said it would sign up for TTIP or equivalent, including all the worst bits if we *left* the EU.
Meanwhile, it's quite likely to be dropped or heavily modified within the EU since every government plus the EU parliament has a veto.
TTIP: One of the best reasons for *staying* in the EU.
Doesn't need to be a conspiracy ,greed will suffice
Was there a conspiracy making the tobacco industry to lie for decades,and expending millions in political lobbying, propaganda, and misinformation?
what about the oil companies with the leaded fuel?
I would say yes, and yes. Both are conspiracies. I would also add the conspiracy among extraction companies to sow FUD about AGW.
"What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
Because greenpeace's lies and conspiracy theories have been the leading cause of global war,ign since the 1960's
The leading cause? That's some next-level shit right there. Bravo!
"What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
Yet still cheaper than wind or solar (even before you factor in storage).
What Greenpeace has released IS the current state of play - it's internal documents from the negotiators.
"Cock Up Your Beaver" does not mean what you think. This sig is intended to clog filters and annoy do-gooders
I know PLENTY of people, both Liberal and Conservative that don't like these trade agreements. Part of the charm of both Bernie and Trump is that they are not from the Political Cabal that is set up in DC that keeps pushing this shit though.
And I doubt you are against capitalism, I think you're really against Corpratism. And Being Libertarian, I am against the creation of the state (corporations) controlling its creator via political bribes, threats and influence. IMHO the rise of PACs, Union Contribution, and other "Group Politics" has contributed to a disconnected political class that doesn't have to respond to the will of the people.
I personally think that many on both the Right and Left in America actually agree on what the problems are, it is the solutions that divide us. IMHO people who think Statism is the answer to Statism are simply delusional. The only solution is to start dismanteling the consolidation of power at the places furthest from the actual people.
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
Isn't it a conspiracy either way? Either the government is working to lower standards so companies have an easier time of it (conspiracy) or Greenpeace made things up to hurt public support (also a conspiracy). I'm more inclined to believe the first is true, but it wouldn't surprise me if Greenpeace is lying; they aren't always the most trustworthy organization.
Examine even your most deeply held beliefs. Nobody is always right.
Do you think our government or main stream media- CNN FOX MSNBC NBC CBS ABC or any of the newspapers including the NYTimes of WSJ have said peep about the TTP? Most Americans don't even know what it is and would be outraged if they understood it. This is Congress and the WH and the government operating as nothing less than a criminal gang. This is the 1%er doing what the 1%ers do- smashing democracy, destroying the 99%s living standards for their personal private benefit.
All these trade agreements have do nothing but destroyed the econoomies of the nations who signed onto them. Mexico is now nothing more than a narco state with entire swaths of it not even nominally under the control of the Mexican goverrnment. Virtually all able bodied males between the ages of 13 and 65 are in the US illegally or otherwise desperate for work their own nation can no longer provide them. This is the reality of NAFTA.
And where are the degenerate "free market" neoliberal think-tank sponsored "scholars" and economists who promised us all in 94 that NAFTA would result in unprecedented wealth for the average Mexican and benefit the US also? The CTO Institute freaks nad the "economists" from bought-off shithole universities like Chicago ? The Dan Griswolds of the world? No doubt they're still living large off the money the think tanks, corporations and 1%ers in the MSM and (NPR too!) gave them to shovel their bullshit economics on the Americna public's head.
You don't get to be a billionaire by playing nice and providing value. You get to be a billionaire by murdering people via proxy, bulldozing millions of other people's lives off a cliff, bribery, lying and controlling Congress by offering them deep seven figure jobs after their time acting as your personal footman and bitchboy in the Senate is over.
In case you weren't aware.
I know that, but the author of the previous post questions that.
Official in what sense? These people have no actual authority. Any decisions stemming from them have equal weight: no moral authority, only the threat of physical violence.
Requiem for the American Dream
Official on what sense? These people have no actual authority. Any decisions stemming from them have equal weight: no moral authority, only the threat of physical violence.
Requiem for the American Dream
Also, do we even have a need for the concept behind the word 'official' in today's world?
Requiem for the American Dream
So, your stance is that because a reactor took longer to build and cost more, all nuclear power is terrible?
Why was this UK reactor delayed? Was it maybe because of Fukushima, and lawsuits related to that against them? Why has it taken longer to build than estimated when they started? Did things change during construction that made the delays happen?
I see no indication of why the reactor was delayed, but you offer no evidence that is had anything to do with poorly run anything, and instead just act like it is fact.
Modern nuclear power plants use containment vessels that can only be made in one factory that is in Japan, it is possible that the delays were just because of the Tsunami that caused the Fukushima incident, and nothing at all to do with mismanagement.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
Do you think our government or main stream media- CNN FOX MSNBC NBC CBS ABC or any of the newspapers including the NYTimes of WSJ have said peep about the TTP?
Apparently, they have said so little that you confused the names of two of them :)
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?