Microsoft Removes Wi-Fi Sense Feature From Windows 10 Which Shared Your Wi-Fi Password

Microsoft says it has removed the controversial Wi-Fi Sense feature that shared a user's password with their friends and people in the contact list. "We have removed the Wi-Fi Sense feature that allows you to share Wi-Fi networks with your contacts and to be automatically connected to networks shared by your contacts," says Microsoft's Gabe Aul. "The cost of updating the code to keep this feature working combined with low usage and low demand made this not worth further investment." Ben Woods, writing for The Next Web: The feature allows you to share Wi-Fi login information with friends automatically via your contacts, however it got a controversial reception due to privacy implications. Do you really want to share your Wi-Fi codes with everyone in your contacts? No, of course not. It seems that was the general response from users too, so that option will be removed in the upcoming Windows 10 Insider Preview update, Microsoft says. Public Wi-Fi login info will remain in the app though.

Comments

Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[kheldan]

How about removing all the so-called 'telemetry' and other privacy-invading malware bullshit and return control of peoples' computers to the people who own and operate them? Or will not being assholes cut into your profit margin too much?

Re:Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[wicka_wicka]

Did you complain about the so-called telemetry in Vista, 7, or 8? Do you complain about it Android? Or are you just focusing on it because Microsoft was the ONLY corporation that reworded their legal liability notices so they were written in plain English? I'm not defending them, I'm not saying it's an acceptable thing, but the fact of that matter is that this level of data reporting has been included in the three prior versions of Windows, AND is done in many other products in on the market (some to far greater extents). The only reason people have this incorrect belief that Windows 10 is particularly bad (hint: it's not) is because Microsoft was up front about it. Well, that, and the fact that the outrage allowed a lot of "news" outlets to get away with blatantly lying about the extent to which Microsoft is capturing your data.

Re:Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[art123]

It was the telemetry that told them this future was not used much hence the reason for it being removed.

Re:Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[Anonymous Coward]

Newsflash: Yes, some people do. If 'nobody' cared what people had stored on their computer, the FBI wouldn't be demanding the ability to compel tech organizations to help them access it. Also ... encryption in general wouldn't even exist ....

If you want to exchange the ability to keep some privacy for 'cool shit', then by all means do so. But, that doesn't invalidate the opinions of those of us who either don't care about the 'cool shit', or don't find it worth the cost (both in money and in privacy) we'd have to pay.

Re:Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[MightyMartian]

This message brought to you by Microsoft...

Re:Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[wicka_wicka]

Ah, the classic reply of a man who is beaten: accusing someone of being a paid shill. If you have nothing to say, next time just don't say anything.

Re:Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[cfalcon]

> How about you just don't fucking buy it and stop whining.

Well, Windows 10 has been pretty clever about sneaking into machines and installing itself, in the process downgrading your "pro" 7 install to a "home" one. So some victims of Windows 10 didn't consent, they were tricked.

If you used Windows 7 (a pretty good OS!), you might expect that, at some point, Microsoft would make another good OS. It's reasonable to be disappointed or even angry that they have not.

And you said it yourself- Microsoft is obsessed with capturing what you do and sending it to their servers. This means that someone must obviously care what people are doing on computers, because there is such a huge pressure to make that happen.

I can't disagree with your overall point though: the solution is to stop using Windows. If Windows users continue to put up with anything, then "anything" is exactly what they will get.

Re:Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[U2xhc2hkb3QgU3Vja3M]

Oh shit, Microsoft has the ability to remove the future? We're all doomed, DOOMED!

Re:Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[Anonymous Coward]

"but the fact of that matter is that this level of data reporting has been included in the three prior versions of Windows"

You had the option to turn it off, dipshit. That's the whole fucking point.

Re:Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[Anonymous Coward]

Did you complain about the so-called telemetry in Vista, 7, or 8?

First, it's not "so-called" telemetry, it's actual telemetry. It really is there. And second, yes, absolutely it was complained about.

Do you complain about it Android?

Again, yes. What idiot wouldn't complain about being spied upon?

Or are you just focusing on it because Microsoft was the ONLY corporation that reworded their legal liability notices so they were written in plain English?

Nope. Microsoft has a lo-o-ong history of doing evil. In that history, any time they've seemed to be doing good, it was quickly discovered that they were, in fact, doing evil. Leopards, spots; you know how it is. If your partner of decades has been beating you since you met, a sudden proclamation that they love you and promise it won't happen again should be vieed as the lie that it is.

Re:Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[Anonymous Coward]

... the fact of that matter is that this level of data reporting has been included in the three prior versions of Windows.

[citation_needed]

The telemetry nonsense was included in Windows 10 and then backported to Windows 7, 8, and 8.1 not all that long ago. That was also a scuzzy move, and implying that the tracking's been there all along and nobody cared is flat out wrong.

Re:Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[sjames]

Brought to you by the makers of the email and document virus.

Re:Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[Sperbels]

And how about removing the lovely feature I discovered last night. I needed to make a few simple calculations, so I launched calc.exe and was typing away. I looked up and it had ignored my last several keystrokes and Windows was displaying a screen asking me to complete a survey on how satisfied I was with calc.exe. I shit you not.

Re:Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh shit, Microsoft has the ability to remove the future? We're all doomed, DOOMED!

And what of the people that actually used and wanted this feature? Not that I wanted this abomination of a feature, but Microsoft absolutely should not have the ability to add or remove features from my computer without my permission. What if Microsoft decides to remove Windows Media Center, or Windows Live Mail, or Windows Movie Maker, or anything else that they just don't feel like supporting any more, so out it comes, whether you used it or not?

Re:Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[cfalcon]

> Did you complain about the so-called telemetry in Vista, 7, or 8?

Windows 7 and 8 didn't have it 10-style until 10 launched. It is possible to run 7 without telemetry, and out of the box, 7 doesn't have it. So if people aren't complaining about it, it is ultimately because it doesn't exist. Certainly not the way it does in 10.

> Do you complain about it Android?

I'm pretty sure you can turn it off in Android. I know you can in ios. More importantly, phones are generally poor at privacy, because they must, by nature, broadcast your location constantly. To make this worse, there's no truly open phone.

But just because phones suck doesn't mean desktops should. This does not excuse Microsoft's behavior in Windows 10. Windows 10 runs on a real machine, it is far more capable than a phone, and you could easily have most or all of your electronic life in there, and many do. It is disgusting to switch that to some kind of system that rings the mothership everytime you launch notepad, such that some profile about you exists for how you edit your damned files.

Re:Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[MightyMartian]

But it's pretty obvious you are a paid shill.

If you're not, then you're just a moron.

Re: Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[Zero__Kelvin]

Well, they have removed a future where anybody in their right mind with a sixth grade education or higher would ever use their product, so there is that ;-)

Re:Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[Anonymous Coward]

You are too stupid to be allowed to live.

Please kill your parents then yourself so you do not further weaken the gene pool.

Re:Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[Anonymous Coward]

If Microsoft removed all of the spyware, all of the ads, allowed users to control updates, allowed users to control reboots, allowed users to completely uninstall the Windows store, allowed users to completely uninstall Edge, allowed users to completely uninstall Cortana and reverted the start menu back to something sane, I might consider using Windows 10.

While this latest action of removing wi-fi sense is a very small step in the right direction, Microsoft once again shows that they don't have a clue by removing it for the wrong reason. They shouldn't have removed it due to the cost of updating it, but rather because it was a fucking stupid idea and a gaping security hole from the very beginning.

Re:Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[vux984]

Well, Windows 10 has been pretty clever about sneaking into machines and installing itself,

It asked to upgrade and people said yes; and then worst case the upgrade happened weeks or months later instead of immediately so that they forgot. I concede its a bit malware-ish since people click without reading. But in the end its the same as adobe reader "sneaking" the adobe reader DC upgrade onto machines with Adobe Reader X.

in the process downgrading your "pro" 7 install to a "home" one.

I've never heard of that ever happening, and a quick google didn't bring up a storm of outrage either. So... cite?

So some victims of Windows 10 didn't consent, they were tricked.

http://winsupersite.com/window...

Even Adobe Reader doesn't have a built in "I changed my mind and want to go back feature." Windows 10 does.

This means that someone must obviously care what people are doing on computers, because there is such a huge pressure to make that happen.

Telemetry properly used; is what enabled them to determine empirically that wifi sense was not being used much and wasn't worth keeping around.

There is LOTS to complain about microsoft telemetry including the lack of an option to easily turn it off; but telemetry has legitimate positive uses too.

You however have gone off the deep end into delusional territory.

Re:Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[Anonymous Coward]

If they didn't care, then why are they collecting the data that they supposedly don't care about? The reason that you don't care about privacy and security is because you're a child and you have nothing but games and your porn collection on your computer. You utterly fail at logic and life, son.

And cool shit? What cool shit? Windows 10 is garbage that offers nothing new or cool.

Re:Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[Darinbob]

We're talking about Windows 10. Why derail the conversation by mentioning cool shit?

Re:Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[Darinbob]

We know that Microsoft has paid shills. The game is to figure out who they are. The hard part is that so many naive people are rabid Microsoft fans, refusing to believe that their heroes can do anything wrong, or younger engineers who have been in the Windows monoculture since birth and so lack relevant breadth of experience.

Re:Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[hairyfeet]

Informative? Really mods? you DO know they didn't start shoving that telemetry shit until AFTER Windows 10 flatlined, yes? And that its dead simple to remove the telemetry from Win 7/8/8.1 and can be done with a simple batch file, yes? And that with Windows 10 its impossible to get it to stop leaking data, that even the pirates have failed to be able to strip enough from that Bonzi Buddy of an OS to get it to STFU, you DO know this...yes?

As for the other poster who called this koolaid drinker I'm responding to a shill? Look at the posting history before throwing around shill, as this one is obviously just a raging fanboy, no different than that Appletard I ran into here that still swears that "Apples don't get viruses" because his definition of a virus is so fucking narrow that no malware written past 1992 would pass, or the FOSSie that swears Linux is growing on the desktop and then when you provide the latest desktop stats starts talking about routers....he has guzzled the koolaid, can't admit he's been buttfucked by spyware, so will furiously wave his little winflag until his wrists break.

The difference between a shill and a fanboy is a BIG fucking difference and why shill shouldn't be thrown around lightly, shills are professionals sent to signaljam communication channels with propaganda, fanboys are just flag wavers for certain products. if you have trouble spotting the difference? Go look up the articles from this site that were tearing into the Metro UI when Win 8 was first shat out and you'll find plenty of actual shill posts. For those that are too lazy shills 1.- Either have new accounts or old accounts that are ONLY used when a company they are shilling for has an article and the rest of the time are dormant, 2.- They stay on message in every post, no talk of anything other than the positives of brand X or the negatives of brand Y, 3.- They almost always tend to slip into "buzzword bingo" because middle management likes them to push the latest company horseshit so you see words and phrases nobody uses outside the boardroom like "vertical integration", "product synergy", and "positive user experience" so it ends up reading like a PPT.

Re:Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[wbo]

Are you sure you are running an actual RTM/release build and not a Insider or preview build? I have never seen such a survey prompt on any of my systems running the RTM release but I have seen it on my test system running an Insider build.

Surveys in the Insider builds make perfect sense and are to be expected given that those builds are designed to gather feedback from users to be incorporated in future updates and are not supposed to be used on primary or production systems.

Re:Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[Anonymous Coward]

How about you just don't fucking buy it and stop whining.

http://pinkie.mylittlefacewhen...

And that's another thing. Those of us who are happy to remain on Win7 until EOL in 2020 are not whining. We are complaining.

Re:Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[kheldan]

Did you complain about the so-called telemetry in Vista, 7, or 8?

I'm still running XP at home, because I didn't give enough of a damn to go to all the hassle of upgrading.. and truth be told I didn't know about any 'telemetry' in Win7 anyway, but had I known I would've been pissed about that, too.

Current plans are some flavor of Linux. When I get around to it. There's only one piece of software I have that has only a Windows-only version, and I can get around that easily enough. No way in hell I'll accept any Microsoft OS on any machine I own anymore, if this is the way they're going to conduct themselves.

Stop being such a Microsoft fanboy, it's annoying.

Re:Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[pezpunk]

The messages use a variety of misleading text. For example, my wife was tricked into upgrading to Windows10 because after clicking "no thanks" a certain number of times, it eventually asked her "do you want to upgrade to Windows 10 now, or later?" and she clicked "later", meaning "never", but it installed it later that day, assuming it had permission.

if you want to argue that TECHNICALLY she agreed to install it, fine, but in my opinion when a major avenue of adoption is tricking its users into installing it, that is pretty much the definition of evil.

Re:Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[KGIII]

> a scuzzy move

Are you sure it wasn't an IDE move?

I'll see myself out.

Re:Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[cfalcon]

> So... cite?

I'm wrong on this.

My mistake was that "Home Premium" and "Home Basic" both map to "Home", which loses the "Premium" options, such as Windows Media Player. I internalized that as "Pro" becoming "Home", which does not happen. "Pro" becomes "Pro".

Other things:
The ability to revert doesn't excuse the forced upgrade in the first place. Having to mess with wusa and kb numbers to keep Windows 10 off your box is flat out disgusting. Changing the upgrade category to make it get picked up by users who have the recommended upgrade settings for security is seriously distorted too.

> Telemetry properly used
I bet they were afraid of a lawsuit or something, frankly (some ex-husband gets the wifi password delivered automatically, stalks his ex that way, Microsoft lawyer has to be all "rtfm lol" in court, bad optics!). That and the fact that it's been huge negative press.

The correct use of "telemetry" for me and many others is "never". The fact that Microsoft makes this difficult is ludicrous.

> but telemetry has legitimate positive uses too

Tons! It is super helpful to any development to see how the product is used. Use patterns in the field are massively helpful. The key here is:
Opt in telemetry is totally fine.
Opt out telemetry is sketchy, but generally ok.
Wusa uninstalling ludicrous kb numbers and grabbing scripts from social media to block IPs to run securely is dystopian.

Windows is firmly in the last camp, with 10.

> You however have gone off the deep end into delusional territory.

Cite? What's delusional about not wanting to send telemetry, or claiming that Microsoft makes it effectively impossible to turn off?

Re:Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[Anonymous Coward]

LTSB N is quite nice...telemetry wise, blocking the hosts at the firewall and using Spyboy Anti-Beacon should do it...

It only gets sehttps://yro.slashdot.org/story/16/05/11/1625207/microsoft-removes-wi-fi-sense-feature-from-windows-10-which-shared-your-wi-fi-password#curity updates, has no cortana, app store, apps, etc etc...so no features get added and it remains super stable.

Re:Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[vux984]

The messages use a variety of misleading text. For example, my wife was tricked into upgrading to Windows10 because after clicking "no thanks" a certain number of times, it eventually asked her "do you want to upgrade to Windows 10 now, or later?"

Nope. Your wife or someone else WAY back comitted to doing the upgrade. They clicked, "yes I want to install the upgrade when its available; reserve it now and let me know when its ready" or something along those lines.

THAT was the opt-in or opt-out.

Everything AFTER that, all those "Do you want to complete your upgrade to windows 10 now?" boxes your wife declined for the last few months ... it wasn't asking permission to install wiindows 10. It was asking to COMPLETE the installation of windows 10 that had ALREADY been requested.

And yeah, like any other windows update that microsoft downloads and applies and needs a reboot; it prompts you to reboot, and if you decline long enough; eventually it forces the issue. "Complete and reboot now, or in a couple hours"

Its like Adobe Reader asking to install an update. When you click 'go' it does its thing. When its finished and prompts for a reboot ... "now or later" are your only options. The update has already been committed. You can't look at that 'nor or later" and lament that Adobe is forcing itself on you... "Now or Later" and cry evil. Well... I guess you can do just that, because you are doing just that.

But its not really accurate.

You or someone did agree to the upgrade at the very beginning. And everything after that was just a question of when you wanted to finalize the installation. Same as any other windows update you've ever done.

That said I agree with you its clumsy, and the way microsoft hooked it up to the windows update system, which treats it much the same as any other update that needs a reboot was poorly thought out. I agree that it really should give you a final opt-out / cancel just before it finalizes. But it didn't force you into the install; its just forcing you to finish the install you already started. At least it offers an easy rollback.

Re:Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[Trax3001BBS]

> How about you just don't fucking buy it and stop whining.

Well, Windows 10 has been pretty clever about sneaking into machines and installing itself, in the process downgrading your "pro" 7 install to a "home" one. So some victims of Windows 10 didn't consent, they were tricked.

If you used Windows 7 (a pretty good OS!), you might expect that, at some point, Microsoft would make another good OS. It's reasonable to be disappointed or even angry that they have not.

Notice how Win10 features (OS) are making their way into Win7? GWX which I consider "spyware"' shows up at random times. X:\windows\GWX did last night and I just delete the directory as normal. I Can't call it the cause as more was going on, but I can't boot into Win7 now, an error message does read cause it can't find a component in the GWX dir...

Re:Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[Sperbels]

I don't think so. Pulled it down from the MSDN website about a month ago so it's possible I grabbed the wrong version, but it did make me enter my Win 10 Enterprise key, and the Insider Build looks like it doesn't require one at all.

Re:Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[jaklode]

I'm still running XP at home, because I didn't give enough of a damn to go to all the hassle of upgrading.. and truth be told I didn't know about any 'telemetry' in Win7 anyway, but had I known I would've been pissed about that, too.

Maybe Ubuntu LTS or Debian? Beware that Ubuntu only offers security updates for their small main repository. Or something like CentOS; that will reduce your need to upgrade a lot.

Current plans are some flavor of Linux. When I get around to it. There's only one piece of software I have that has only a Windows-only version, and I can get around that easily enough.

Wine is also really great these days, it even runs a .NET app I threw at it, using it's Mono support.

Re:Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[vux984]

Having to mess with wusa and kb numbers to keep Windows 10 off your box is flat out disgusting.

Yeah, you don't have to that. Not reserving your copy or whatever its called is sufficient to keep it sitting there idly forevor. It doesn't force windows 10 itself on you.

I do agree the GWX program itself was too difficult to silence.

I bet they were afraid of a lawsuit or something, frankly

You'd have thought that would have come up when the feature was proposed in beta and the negative press started ramping up.

The correct use of "telemetry" for me and many others is "never". The fact that Microsoft makes this difficult is ludicrous.

I completely agree. Although telemetry blockers have stepped in to fill the gap. But I completely agree you shouldn't have to use a 3rd party tool for this.

Wusa uninstalling ludicrous kb numbers and grabbing scripts from social media to block IPs to run securely is dystopian.

There are one-click install telemetry blocking products now. And given telemetry has backported telemetry to 7 and 8; there is no difference between the 3 oses in this regard as far as im concerned. 7 is no better than 10; so there is no reason to stay on 7 and block telemetry vs upgrading to 10 and blocking telemetry.

What's delusional

That windows 10 was forced on you. It wasn't (see other post). That windows 10 home was replacing 7 pro... which you've agreed was an error on your part.

I'm with you on the telemetry. I think its truly bizarre that microsoft didn't just give the vocal minority an off switch. It makes no sense.

Re:Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[Anonymous Coward]

The spyware in Vista, 7 and 8 wasn't made by Microsoft and integrated into the OS.

Bringing up Android is just you attempting deflection and failing. Android, being based on open source, means that anyone can have as much or as little Google involvement as they want. My phone runs a custom AOSP build that does absolutely no phoning home, so if you want to try to pull the cop-out line of "well other people do bad things too", then you need to tell me where the alternative, open source Windows 10 project is. The problem is, you can't because it doesn't exist and that makes your comparison completely invalid.

Windows 10 is pure spyware, adware and malware through and through.

Re:Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[WolfgangVL]

I'm sick of all the privacy warriors ruining all the cool shit that people come up with because of some fucked up fantasy that someone gives a shit about what people have stored on their computer. Newsflash: nobody does.

I beg to differ

Re:Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[chmod a x mojo]

How about removing all the so-called 'telemetry' and other privacy-invading malware bullshit and return control of peoples' computers to the people who own and operate them? Or will not being assholes cut into your profit margin too much?

Telemetry would be fine if we could trust that it was completely non-identifying . Telemetry is how they knew almost no one was using this "feature" after all.
  I don't trust them to not make use of identifying stuff and / or using and selling the info to advertisers though. Anything more than "this feature is being used, and that one isn't" with no machine / personal identification is too much. I can understand wanting to know about how many OS installs there are and how many times each feature is enabled / disabled, but knowing all emails / keystrokes / files / or whatever else MS has been caught snooping in is taking it way, WAY to far.

Re:Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[WaffleMonster]

Did you complain about the so-called telemetry in Vista, 7, or 8?

HELLLLL YES.

Do you complain about it Android?

There is nothing to complain about. Android is open source and does not have built in spyware. (Google play services != Android)

Or are you just focusing on it because Microsoft was the ONLY corporation that reworded their legal liability notices so they were written in plain English?

I don't think anyone gives a shit honestly.

I'm not defending them, I'm not saying it's an acceptable thing, but the fact of that matter is that this level of data reporting has been included in the three prior versions of Windows, AND is done in many other products in on the market (some to far greater extents).

Then what are you saying? That two wrongs make a right? That because someone else does it then it must be ok? What is your point?

The only reason people have this incorrect belief that Windows 10 is particularly bad (hint: it's not) is because Microsoft was up front about it.

I think the belief stems from reading Microsoft's own documentation about what the software does and reading their own privacy policies about what they grant themselves the right to do and simply objecting to both assertions and behavior as completely unacceptable.

One of the more comical examples. Microsoft Installs and enables a remote access Trojan by default with Windows 10 enabling MS to exfiltrate whatever data (e.g. content) they want from your system without your consent or knowledge. This seems so over the top that "particularly bad" does not quite do justice.

https://technet.microsoft.com/...

Well, that, and the fact that the outrage allowed a lot of "news" outlets to get away with blatantly lying about the extent to which Microsoft is capturing your data.

A more accurate characterization Microsoft's insanity reached a high enough level to make the news.

Re:Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[armanox]

That's enough SAS for one day...

Re:Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[pezpunk]

haha, why are you bothering to defend this horrible practice?

she did not want the upgrade. somehow it wound up on there. there are THOUSANDS of people with the same story. you want to write a book on why she TECHNICALLY must have agreed to install it at some point, fine, but the bottom line is she was tricked into installing it, and her story is an extremely common one. It's a shitty tactic and it's creating millions of brand new microsoft haters who previously didn't really have an opinion on the company.

Re:Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[MightyMartian]

I think we can be fairly confident that someone who compares the telemetry data of Vista and Windows 7 to the fundamental nature of the telemetry system in Windows 10, while not mentioning previous versions it could be completely disabled, is very likely a shill.

Re:Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[jawtheshark]

downgrading your "pro" 7 install to a "home" one

Have you got any links about that? The Windows 7 Pro machines I upgraded, became Windows 10 Pro, and the Windows 7 Home Premium became Windows 10 Home. (Given the version jungle 7 has, I pretty much only encounter Pro and Home Premium versions). Now, do note that all machines I have upgraded, went the "image current 7" -> "upgrade to 10" -> "restore image from 7" route, simply to ensure that those machines won't become useless or unsellable in the future (January 2020). I didn't use them long: long enough to check whether they were activated. but that's in the same screen where the edition is shown.

Re:Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, you don't have to that. Not reserving your copy or whatever its called is sufficient to keep it sitting there idly forevor. It doesn't force windows 10 itself on you.

Bull. Fucking. Shit.

The "upgrade" eventually embedded itself directly into Windows Update where you would normally have buttons that allow you to check for updates. Clicking the button that was located in the exact same place as normal OS updates would install Windows 10. That is underhanded, slimy behaviour that was specifically intended to trick people into installing Windows 10. Simply not reserving a copy did NOT prevent this from happening.

Either you're being paid by MS or you foolishly upgraded and are now trying to convince yourself that it wasn't a mistake by defending your decision and getting others to join you. After all, if you can get others to follow your stupid choice, it can't be all bad, right? It's called post-purchase rationalisation and you're doing it in every single post you made here.

Re: Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[Anonymous Coward]

"was poorly thought out"

No it was not, it was intentional and intended to create the most installations possible.

Re:Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[mattventura]

Nope. Your wife or someone else WAY back comitted to doing the upgrade. They clicked, "yes I want to install the upgrade when its available; reserve it now and let me know when its ready" or something along those lines.

It's still a bait-and-switch. I had initially opted into that, before it was known that they were going to have all the telemetry and other assorted bullshit in the final version. So naturally, I wanted to later opt out of it.

Re:Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[Anonymous Coward]

The difference between a shill and a fanboy is a BIG fucking difference.

Shills aren't stupid.

While some are as you describe most are perfectly capable of taking on a little protective coloration. eg. Shills are often employed by fraudulent "reputation management" companies that reuse login accounts for different campaigns.

Most "fanboys" are shills. The vast majority of people don't really care about commercial products and when they do their attitudes are more nuanced with detailed and balanced reasoning about why one product is better than another.

Re:Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

Not only do I care about privacy and security personally, but from a business point of view, some of us literally can't install Windows 10 at work. Since we're dealing with other people's sensitive information, having a system that phones home in unknown ways and can update itself however it wants without knowledge or consent is just a complete deal-breaker.

Re:Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

That windows 10 home was replacing 7 pro...

It might as well be, in some respects. Windows 10 Pro is not like Windows 7 Pro.

Re:Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[shugah]

Windows 10 would be great, without all the crapware they bundle with it. I've used PowerShell and Group Policies to disable most of it, but you can't get rid of Cortona, Edge or (now) Bing Search.

Re:Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[cfalcon]

No, I'm wrong on that, as I stated here:

https://slashdot.org/comments....

"My mistake was that "Home Premium" and "Home Basic" both map to "Home", which loses the "Premium" options, such as Windows Media Player. I internalized that as "Pro" becoming "Home", which does not happen. "Pro" becomes "Pro"."

Re:Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[Anonymous Coward]

Nope. Your wife or someone else WAY back comitted to doing the upgrade. They clicked, "yes I want to install the upgrade when its available; reserve it now and let me know when its ready" or something along those lines.

It's still a bait-and-switch. I had initially opted into that, before it was known that they were going to have all the telemetry and other assorted bullshit in the final version. So naturally, I wanted to later opt out of it.

Interestingly, the problem is these UI jerks leave out the "no, never" option just like when they want to backport the new need of your cellphone number to grandfathered accounts from the nineties.
That said, this is reason 2 why I don't do free upgrades: what if I really had W10 and needed the feature? why not give all users a dialog or DISABLE instead of killing the [supposed] value of a paid product*?

* After July, supposedly W10 won't be free to clone anymore.

Re:Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[Ol Olsoc]

The messages use a variety of misleading text. For example, my wife was tricked into upgrading to Windows10 because after clicking "no thanks" a certain number of times, it eventually asked her "do you want to upgrade to Windows 10 now, or later?"

Nope. Your wife or someone else WAY back comitted to doing the upgrade. They clicked, "yes I want to install the upgrade when its available; reserve it now and let me know when its ready" or something along those lines.

THAT was the opt-in or opt-out.

Negative. I have several machines I went through the update process. I also have Win7 on an IMac in a i5 Mid 2011 edition that simply cannot run Windows 10 Will not work with that version of Bootcamp. Yet Microsoft pushed everything to upgrade onto the computer without permission, and it has been trying like hell to get me to upgrade. It is hard for me to believe that I - as you suggest - deliberately told Microsoft to Download an OS that computer will not run. Weird-ass little windows pop up as well, with nothing inside, that I have to ignore - how do I know what will happen?

Re:Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[Ol Olsoc]

But it's pretty obvious you are a paid shill.

If you're not, then you're just a moron.

I vote for both.

Re:Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[Ol Olsoc]

I SATA while before I got that.

Re:Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[Anonymous Coward]

Spyware is never fine.

1) I am not Microsoft's beta tester. They can go hire people to do that.
2) I do not want Microsoft accessing my data. Whether that is my personal files or usage patterns is irrelevant. It's MY data.
3) I do not want Microsoft using up my bandwidth and system resources for their benefit.
4) I do not want Microsoft deciding on what I can and can't do with my computers.

Re:Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[jawtheshark]

Ah, that makes more sense. I've never encountered anything other than Home Premium and Pro in the wild (well, and Enterprise, but that's a different kettle of fish). Thanks for the clarification.

Re:Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[deniable]

The telemetry was in 8 from day 1. 10 wasn't even on the horizon. Such useful facts as 'People discover most features in the first 24 hours' were derived from this.

Re:Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[Anonymous Coward]

False.
Clean install of Win7 Pro. Stock WU settings. Guess what - installs GWX, downloads Win10 and pops up the "Upgrade to Windows 10 now or later" dialog.
Considering that this install was never used for anything other than running Prime95 torture test, Linpack and HCI Memtest... yeah, I'm sure someone broke into my basement and clicked random things on a bench rig.

Re:Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[antdude]

So to avoid them in Windows, we have to use Vista and older unsupported Windows. Or switch to a non-Windows OS. That is assuming you want to go online. :(

Re: Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you have an i device? If have even one, where's your outrage?

Even ignoring the Win10 opt in or out that the other poster mentioned, i devices get a UI blocking (i.e. you MUST answer to use your device) asking if you want to update. Your options are Yes and Later. If you select later, it asks you when you'd like to with a cancel. Again, this blocks the UI and must be answered.

If you never clicked on the Win10 box (which you don't because it doesn't take over your system), it would never upgrade you.

Re: Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[Anonymous Coward]

If you manually go into Windows Update, you are not the common masses. The common people would just let WU go and they would have been none the wiser that a W10 install-now was inside WU.

For the power users, they read if something is different then normal. "View all other updates" is just below the Get W10.

Re: Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[Anonymous Coward]

Wrong. I had updates set to manual, which is why I go into Windows Update. Had it been a noob running automatic updates, Windows 10 would have installed without any user input. Manual updates and a sharp eye are the only things that kept that malware off of my system.

Re:Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually you're right in a way. Windows 10 Pro is Pro in name only. It removes functionality and control that Windows 7/8 Pro had and downgrades the functionality to less than that of Windows 7/8 Home.

Re:Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[Anonymous Coward]

I've used Windows 8 Pro since day one and you're full of shit. There is zero spyware built in.

Re:Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[david_thornley]

Windows has been notorious for allowing focus-stealing for a long time.

Re:Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[cwsumner]

Many people did not consent, at all.

What happened is that the pop-up question happened while they were working, stole focus and diverted input to the question window, and "ate" the characters that they were typing. One or more of the characters was interpreted as a "yes" response, the question window disappeared, and the user never even saw it. They were reading what they were typing and not looking at the screen.

The result was "what happened to my typing?" and some re-typed text, but no awareness of accepting any such thing.

Microsoft is wrong, they just don't know it. They don't seem to test much nowdays. And they probably don't have any "naive testers" at all, anymore.

Re:Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[deniable]

I said telemetry, not spyware and I referred to a statement by Julie Larsen-Green the head of Windows Engineering.

A pretty piss-poor effort on your part. 2/10

Re:Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[A Friendly Troll]

How about removing all the so-called 'telemetry'...

If they did that, then Wi-Fi Sense would still be in Windows.

Why? Because telemetry told them about "low usage and low demand" for Wi-Fi Sense.

That's what telemetry is for.

Ironically, telemetry is one thing that all power users turn off, and then complain when the product they use gets severaly dumbed down because nobody uses any advanced features (see the failure of Firefox).

Re:Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[Anonymous Coward]

Telemetry is a weasel way of saying spyware, you stupid little fuck.

Again, Windows 8 did not have spyware built in and you've yet to prove it did.

Re:Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[malditaenvidia]

The only reason people have this incorrect belief that Windows 10 is particularly bad (hint: it's not) is because Microsoft was up front about it.

This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, although I admire how passionate you are about your shilling, Steve. Now put down that chair.

Re: Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[Anonymous Coward]

You're full of shit on 7 Pro upgrading to 10 Home, and now I know to always ignore you for being full of shit.

Re: Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[Anonymous Coward]

If you are happy with 7 and have no intention to upgrade to 10, that is in fact whining and not complaining.

Re: Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you sure? I'm pretty sure pirated copies got flagged all the time.

A lot of people just weren't aware of similar phone homes for the last decade+.

Re:Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[hairyfeet]

Riiiight, what do you THINK he is gonna say? "Yeah we are sucking up your data and BTW Metro is shit, I'll see myself out as I don't need this job, thx" dumbass? That is like asking SJWs if they are racist or asking a neocon if they are for corporate welfare, all that robot is gonna do is preach the party line.

Take some truth and drink it deep thats some tasty truth nom nom nom enjoy the big plate of truth, I can give you more if you would like, wallpaper the page if you want?

Re: Can we get them to remove other annoyances?

[Anonymous Coward]

Excuses, excuses.

Dragon Naturally Speaking did the same things that Cortana does now almost 20 years ago or far weaker hardware and without needing to phone home. Cortana could be done locally, the artificial internet requirement is purely for data harvesting.

Also, if you want your life to be more simple, go buy an iPad and leave computing to people who know what they are doing.

They left out a clause

[Anonymous Coward]

Now that Microsoft knows 90% of its users' wireless passwords, We have removed the Wi-Fi Sense feature

Re:They left out a clause

[Anonymous Coward]

...and any intelligence agency that can issue a secret demand for information.

Re:They left out a clause

[bfpierce]

75% of those passwords are variations of 'password' anyways, so not really a big haul on their part.

Re:They left out a clause

[jaklode]

passw0rd!

Re:They left out a clause

[ausekilis]

I now have to change my wifi password, you insensitive clod.

Re:They left out a clause

[armanox]

P@ssw0rd12345

Re: They left out a clause

[Anonymous Coward]

I just use "assword," nobody ever tries assword.

I actually liked this feature

[CaseCrash]

I actually liked this feature. I could go to a friends house and use their Wifi without having to type in their Kafkaesque 20 character password

Re:I actually liked this feature

[Junta]

A lot of folks I know have their password in a QR code.

Re:I actually liked this feature

[CaseCrash]

Oh! That's an awesome idea. I need to put one of those up by my front door.

Re: I actually liked this feature

[Anonymous Coward]

So press the WPS button.

Re:I actually liked this feature

[fahrbot-bot]

A lot of folks I know have their password in a QR code.

Oh! That's an awesome idea. I need to put one of those up by my front door.

Just leave your house key at the door so they can just go read the password off the post-it -- we all -- have taped to the bottom of the router.

Re:I actually liked this feature

[CaseCrash]

Obviously I meant inside and I've never written down a password in my life since not all of us are idiots?
Also, I don't really understand why everyone even secures their wifi. I leave guest mode open. You can use my bandwidth and my devices are fairly secured against attack already.

Re:I actually liked this feature

[kav2k]

Well, if you don't secure the WiFi, you're broadcasting all your packets in plain text.

Don't look at WPA2 as access control only, it's also providing channel encryption.

Guest networks (isolated from the main one) are a nice idea but they should be secured anyway for the sake of the guests.

Re:I actually liked this feature

[CaseCrash]

Huh. I had assumed that channel encryption would be auto negotiated or something. Should have realized the default would be no security. Thanks!

Re:I actually liked this feature

[U2xhc2hkb3QgU3Vja3M]

Just leave your house key at the door so they can just go read the password off the post-it taped to the bottom of the router.

Holy crap, how do you know that? Were you in my house?

Re:I actually liked this feature

[Jawnn]

Obviously I meant inside and I've never written down a password in my life since not all of us are idiots? Also, I don't really understand why everyone even secures their wifi. I leave guest mode open. You can use my bandwidth and my devices are fairly secured against attack already.

Two questions.
1) May have your address please? I have spam campaign I'd like to launch an since you're so generous with your Internet access...
2) Who would like to pick the over/under date for when this trusting soul has his "fairly secured" shit pwned?

Dude. We are well past the point in time where your behavior moved from "generous" to irresponsible. Lock down your fucking WLAN.

Re:I actually liked this feature

[Kant_resistor]

I know, great information, right? Good thing not all of us are idiots.

Re:I actually liked this feature

[Darinbob]

There were many many reasons this was a bad idea. "Crowdsourcing" the trust in random access points is stupid, unless you have verified that all your friends have adequate security. Ie, I have a friend who does stupid stuff all the time, things like joining wifi at restaurants or coffee shops, trusting that Yelp tells the truth, installing every app ever invented, etc. I would not trust his recommendations that a wifi access point is safe, ever. Enter the password once and that's the end of it.

And yet so many PC web sites were gushing about this feature (as they are paid to do), telling everyone that it's not as bad as it looks, and yet Microsoft still pulls it. Not publicly admitting their mistake but phrasing it as "too much effort for the few customers who weren't paranoid enough".

Re:I actually liked this feature

[Darinbob]

Security is the opposite of convenience. This is why many companies have lousy security because they don't want to inconvenience customers, and even corporate alliance standards can water down security because they want their products to be popular.

Re:I actually liked this feature

[KGIII]

Heh... There's a guest channel, specifically for company, at my home. You can use it all you want. I'm probably going to notice you, so you might as well come in for a drink.

Re:I actually liked this feature

[jon3k]

Right, all of those "friends". I'm sure you used it literally two's of times.

Re:I actually liked this feature

[Anonymous Coward]

Great! I'll use it to pirate stuff, download child porn, control a botnet, hire a hitman, buy drugs and post terrorist bomb threats.

Don't worry, I'm sure the judge will believe you when you claim that you didn't do it.

Re:I actually liked this feature

[KGIII]

C'mon over. You're gonna need to sit in the driveway or come inside. My home is 24 miles from the village and at the end of a 1/2 mile drive. Your cantenna isn't going to cut it. So, when they come looking I'll be able to see the logs and say, "Ah ha! I know who it was. In fact, here's my firewall logs. No, you can have those without a warrant, fuck that guy."

Re:I actually liked this feature

[JazzLad]

I use my voicemail number as my wifi password (my cell service has voicemail disabled; just knowing my cell number does not mean you get to leave me a message, you have to have the other number [that forwards to my cell - Google Voice] to leave a message if I don't answer). Anyone I like well enough to give that number to is welcome on my private network. This may change when I move, but is how I've done it for ~10 years.

Re:I actually liked this feature

[Anonymous Coward]

And what will your logs show? The illegal actions will still be tied to your connection.

I think you watch too much TV. You tell them they can't have anything without a warrant and you'll have feds busting down your door, shooting your dog and ransacking your home. What do you really think you would be able to do about it?

Fly on the wall

[Anonymous Coward]

I would love to have been a fly on the wall in the meeting where someone thought this was a good idea. I can't think of a good reason for this feature to exist. If someone were at my house or place of business, they could just ask me for the required information.

Re:Fly on the wall

[Anonymous Coward]

sure there is a good reason: since at least windows 95, ms os have been the front end of the surveillance maw run by the us govt. why else would every major windows bug leak data? i don't believe this is incompetence as much as it is strategic incompetence: designed to fail in a way that provides the desired effect.

Translation

[GrumpySteen]

Okay, fine. We'll remove this feature. But not because everyone flipped their shit and hated it. The only reason we're removing it is because it was cost effective to do so. If we could have found a way to profit off of it, you can bet your pimply ass that it would still be in there and on by default.

Re:Translation

[Anonymous Coward]

Alternatively the message microsoft is selling is as follows:
"Everyone implicitly trusts all their friends in their contact list."

It is a bad sign that their management is not accepting fault for bad design decisions.

I wonder when the other major issues with win10 will no longer be economically viable so we can get a good desktop OS again, and not some mobile (P)OS.

-gov

Re:Translation

[Anonymous Coward]

Alternatively the message microsoft is selling is as follows:
"Everyone implicitly trusts all their friends in their contact list."

It is a bad sign that their management is not accepting fault for bad design decisions.

Windows 8 and Windows 10 are a gigantic collection of bad design decisions.

Re:Translation

[Anonymous Coward]

That was the message.
Corporation governance at it best.
Is helping us ? NO. Then remove it.
Is helping us ? Yes .Tough luck. You are in it for the run.

Re:Translation

[Blue Stone]

It's probably just a face-saving excuse.

Re:Translation

[Anonymous Coward]

What happened to the story that just was here a few moments ago about NASA releasing a bunch of previously-patented technologies?

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:bt0-T-YmkL0J:https://science.slashdot.org/story/16/05/11/1546231/nasa-releases-56-patents-into-the-public-domain-for-commercial-use+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

http://www.cnet.com/news/nasa-releases-56-patents-into-the-public-domain/

A fascinating story, especially the multiplayer VR alpha-wave-biofeedback game idea.

Re:Translation

[Anonymous Coward]

for a change they hope will prevent (or at least limit the damages of) the lawsuits.

Hmm, yes I can see the problem.

[Anonymous Coward]

On the other hand, a way to share with a contact, a token for WiFi without giving them the password, well, that might be worthwhile. Especially if it were limited term.

Unfortunately that would require working with router manufacturers for a security protocol system, and even then, would it be worth the security hassle?

I don't know.

Re:Hmm, yes I can see the problem.

[peragrin]

Actually if the router is visible then an e-ink display showing a qr code would be updatable and work great.

Actually that is a good initial security set up too. The code can be randomized at initial boot of the access point. Once a master password is created the display can be used for one time passwords that last for X hours as determined in the settings. The master password works all the time.

So your devices can get online all the time but new temporary 12-24 hour passwords are created daily for guests.

Re:Hmm, yes I can see the problem.

[spire3661]

AM i the only one that sees QR codes as a massive potential security issue? I never run them on my pocket computer. I dont know why i would want to.

Re:Hmm, yes I can see the problem.

[JazzLad]

The reader I use ("QR Code Reader" on Android) tells me what it says before giving me the option of executing it or not. I assumed they all did.

QR coding moving boxes is a great way to not have to cut boxes open to see what's inside without having it written on the outside for all to see (it has a link to a password protected page).

Re:Hmm, yes I can see the problem.

[Anonymous Coward]

QR codes are just encoded text. You just need a QR reader that will show you the text first, then ask you what you want to do with it.

I use Barcode Scanner to read QR codes, it's an open source app that is available from F-Droid as well as the Play Store.

That said, I rarely want to read QR codes.

How about adding back ip over firewire?

[sims 2]

How about adding back ip over firewire a feature people actually used instead of trying to push crap nobody wants?

Re:How about adding back ip over firewire?

[wicka_wicka]

This is why I love Slashdot. People (like you) are obsessed with comically niche features like IP over Firewire, which is utterly irrelevant, and yet you're too blind to reality to realize it. The last time I saw a thread complaining about Windows there was a similar post saying Windows absolutely MUST include built-in ssh. It's like you people are being willfully ignorant of how the end-user market actually works.

Re:How about adding back ip over firewire?

[wicka_wicka]

"Troll?" Is that a joke? If anyone is a troll it's the guy who suggested IP OVER FIREWIRE, ffs, is a relevant feature large numbers of people need or want.

Re:How about adding back ip over firewire?

[medv4380]

I think it's because he uttered blasphemy against SSH.

Re:How about adding back ip over firewire?

[deadwill69]

I didn't think you were trolling, but alas, I have no points today. Just wanted to check on the second sentence though. I think you meant irrelevant.

Re:How about adding back ip over firewire?

[110010001000]

Yeah, that is crazy. I use NetBIOS over twisted pair.

Re:How about adding back ip over firewire?

[WaffleMonster]

This is why I love Slashdot. People (like you) are obsessed with comically niche features like IP over Firewire, which is utterly irrelevant, and yet you're too blind to reality to realize it.

This is why I love Slashdot. People (like you) are obsessed with cherry picking comments of random posters to establish (insert trend/meme here) is a real sentiment shared by some undisclosed subset of "you people".

Re:How about adding back ip over firewire?

[armanox]

It was rather useful for device-to-device networking - direct connection at 400 or 800Mbps. I think the bigger complaint was that it was simply dropped when other consumer operating systems still support it. However, if he's still complaining about something that was dropped ten years ago, it's time to move on to a different OS if he's that bound to it.

SSH, on the other hand - that's my single biggest feature request for Windows....

Re:How about adding back ip over firewire?

[PRMan]

The parallel port support they removed for good in Windows 10 is more common than this.

Re:How about adding back ip over firewire?

[Anonymous Coward]

The latest Windows 10 preview has native SSH, via Bash - http://www.tenforums.com/attac...

Re:How about adding back ip over firewire?

[david_thornley]

I didn't notice - I've been using PuTTY for so long, I no longer care about native SSH.

Option removed

[fahrbot-bot]

... so that option will be removed in the upcoming Windows 10

Of course, we'll keep *collecting* that information ... 'cause it's Windows 10, which is all about data collection. /cynical

Re: Option removed

[Anonymous Coward]

No it is not. It's about bait and switch. This "free" upgrade is switching to subscription "service" in a couple months.

Re: Option removed

[CaseCrash]

Well that's basically off-topic but anyways, do you have any sources for that? No? Is that because it's not actually going to happen and you just made up some bullshit?

Re:Option removed

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, the info, like all synced Win 10 settings, is stored in user specific space on OneDrive so you have access to it from any Win 10 machine.

Re: Option removed

[Zero__Kelvin]

Microsoft has been taking about moving to a subscription model for many years. Now there is never going to be another Windows release; it's updates all the way down .. You are a moron if you have paid attention for any length of time and you can't figure out where this is all going. Doubly so for not being able to grasp it after it has been pointed out to you.

Your home isn't the only wireless...

[Aqualung812]

Honestly, I thought this was a very useful feature for small businesses that had wifi with a simple password.

I noticed quite a few friends had the same idea as me, because I would go into a new coffee shop and my laptop could connect right away because one of my friends already checked the wifi sense box.

Now, I know no one that did this on their home network. However, for networks like a coffee shop or hotel, it is great.

Re:Your home isn't the only wireless...

[stooo]

These wifi should not have a password in the first place if the intent is to have anybody connecting.

Re:Your home isn't the only wireless...

[Aqualung812]

The intent is that you need to go ask someone at the store what the wifi password is, or find it on a menu.

I agree, it is stupid, but it still exists, and the wifi sense feature made it less of a hassle.

Re:Your home isn't the only wireless...

[Darinbob]

Bad idea. How do you know this coffee shop is safe? Only because your friend was naive enough to trust it? The one place you should never trust anything is in a coffee shop, how do you know it's not someone sitting at another table pretending to be the coffee shop? Extremely bad idea.

Re:Your home isn't the only wireless...

[Aqualung812]

What are you going on about? Safe Internet? What's that?

I don't trust password-protected wireless any more than I trust open wireless, or my Comcast connection.

Anything I do over the Internet that needs any sort of security is going over AES-256 encryption. The encryption of wireless is only somewhat useful to make sure people don't use wireless they shouldn't have access to.

Wifi-CommonSense

[cloud.pt]

Subject says it all. Somebody didn't think the least bit about the implications of generally sharing private passwords.

Re:Wifi-CommonSense

[Anonymous Coward]

It did not share anything by default. It just helped you share the WEP/WPA keys you chose to share. It is actually a useful feature.

People still share the keys via email and other specific WiFi password shaing apps. I am sorry to see the feature go.

Amusing...

[Anonymous Coward]

Many parts of the release (more than just the WiFi Sense note) read as if they are Bing translations from Elbonian ...

Re:Amusing...

[Anonymous Coward]

You mean where it says you can "force the app to hydrate" rather than just "refresh?"

What happened to the NASA article

[Anonymous Coward]

What happened to the story that just was here a few moments about NASA releasing a bunch of previously-patented technologies?

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:bt0-T-YmkL0J:https://science.slashdot.org/story/16/05/11/1546231/nasa-releases-56-patents-into-the-public-domain-for-commercial-use+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

http://www.cnet.com/news/nasa-releases-56-patents-into-the-public-domain/

A fascinating story, especially the multiplayer VR alpha-wave-biofeedback game idea.

Re:What happened to the NASA article

[Motherfucking Shit]

It was a dupe of this story from last Friday, maybe they removed it.

And this was thought to be a good idea?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think they need to expand their C-Suit...CCSO Chief Common Sense Officer. Someone should have told them NO!

Windows 10 can just hack out features?

[LichtSpektren]

I'm sorry, but what if (that's a big "IF" there but bear with me) I bought Windows 10 because I *wanted* this particular feature? Microsoft is just going to "update" it out anyway?

I understand Windows 10 is more of a rolling release than previous versions were, but this is insane. Are they going to "update" out things that I bought from the Windows Store because they weren't terribly popular as well? Imagine if you took your car in for maintenance and they took out your parking camera because nobody used it....

Re:Windows 10 can just hack out features?

[Joe_Dragon]

This has liability and security issues and Facebook friends / email contacts is way to broad.

Re:Windows 10 can just hack out features?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm sorry, but what if (that's a big "IF" there but bear with me) I bought Windows 10 because I *wanted* this particular feature? Microsoft is just going to "update" it out anyway?

I understand Windows 10 is more of a rolling release than previous versions were, but this is insane. Are they going to "update" out things that I bought from the Windows Store because they weren't terribly popular as well? Imagine if you took your car in for maintenance and they took out your parking camera because nobody used it....

With Windows 10 installed, your computer is no longer in your control. Plus, you are forced to test half-baked updates and features for their real customers, enterprise users. Welcome to the new Microsoft.

Re:Windows 10 can just hack out features?

[LichtSpektren]

If I was using a free-as-in-speech OS, I could take it out myself if I judged it to be a liability. Or at least turn it off. But explain to me how it can be just that Microsoft advertises a certain feature to be in Windows 10, delivers it, and then takes it away after millions of people have paid for it?

Re:Windows 10 can just hack out features?

[MightyMartian]

You must be referring to Edge, probably the worst browser developed in the last 20 years. I'd get a better experience using the nightly build of Firefox. What an unbelievable hunk of junk.

Re:Windows 10 can just hack out features?

[Anonymous Coward]

No it doesn't. It does not share anything by default, you have to choose to enable it when you setup a new WiFi profile. It did not do anything the user can't already do using cut and paste.

Re:Windows 10 can just hack out features?

[sconeu]

They learned it from Sony. Please see "Other OS" on the PS3.

Re:Windows 10 can just hack out features?

[MobyDisk]

Microsoft issued patch MS16-928167 which patched vulnerability CVE-2016-989374 which would allow a remote attacker to obtain administrator...

I *used* that vulneratibility! Can Microsoft just "update" it out? I was pulling in 5 bitcoins a week with that one! Can microsoft just remove that because it was seen as a so-called "security" problem? Clearly it was very popular judging from then number of people who paid for me to decrypt their files.

(jk)

Re:Windows 10 can just hack out features?

[Anonymous Coward]

You bring up a fantastic point, and I'm wondering why can't they at least announce ahead of time what each update will do. That may solve or at least help anyone who wants a feature.

Of course, announcing WILL create *unwanted* dialogue- but hey they can still do the update anyways, (admitting our opinions never mattered from day 1), and it may go like this:

"Starting next week with update 99 we will drop support for three buttoned mice & trackballs. Thank you."
- suddenly third party app makers, hax0rz, and startups may all come to the rescue.

I see no problem! (except with the announcement to us = unwanted dialog for them bit as noted above).

Re:Windows 10 can just hack out features?

[PRMan]

So...we're just waiting for GeoHot to put Wifi Sense back and then for Microsoft to accuse him of criminal activity and then for Microsoft to get hacked non-stop for the next 5 years?

Re:Windows 10 can just hack out features?

[AmiMoJo]

Welcome to Software as a Service (SAS). You didn't buy Windows 10, you paid to grant Microsoft a licence to fuck with your computer whenever they feel like it in exchange for whatever services they see fit to hand down.

Get's them out of liability issues with that

[Joe_Dragon]

Get's them out of liability issues with that.

Hey assholes! Gonna make a habit of this now?

[Anonymous Coward]

Another story and its comments have been deleted! Missing comment That is a direct copy of its URL from my message box, so fuck you if you're going to tell me I made a typo.

You people (Slashdot) really suck!! Please! Fellow viewers, demand they stop this now!

I have to post AC because the employees will abuse their privileges and mod all my comments down to destroy my karma. So, fuck them too!

I will keep posting until you damn people stop the practice! You fucking dweebs!

Re:Hey assholes! Gonna make a habit of this now?

[Sperbels]

So, people complain when dupe stories show up. And now people complain when Slashdot removes them. Why don't we get the anti-dup people and the anti-delete people together in a room to fight it out and determine once and for all how this will be handled.

Re:Hey assholes! Gonna make a habit of this now?

[armanox]

And nothing of value was lost. Seriously. Stop with the spam. It's annoying and off topic.

Re:Hey assholes! Gonna make a habit of this now?

[Anonymous Coward]

No, screw you! This ain't spam! Fuck you! Preserving comments is the essence of Slashdot. If they won't do it, they should shut the goddamn place down!

That makes no Sense

[jfdavis668]

Get it? No Sense. Nevermind...

Wow, they listen to their users?

[Opportunist]

Who would have thought that there is low demand for a "feature" that broadcasts your passwords to others?

Hey, MS, allow me to let you in on a secret: There's also really low demand for the thousand "apps" that nobody needs, can't be uninstalled and take up unnecessary space on the drive and the start menu (where you ALSO cannot get rid of them), and there is really low demand for updates we can't turn off.

Maybe you could discover this great revelation next?

Re:Wow, they listen to their users?

[PublicSchill]

Psst, if you have time please forward this great advice to Google. Apparently only Europe and Asia has countries who care about their citizens to confront them on it... but nobody here in the US.

Re:Wow, they listen to their users?

[thegarbz]

There's also really low demand for the thousand "apps" that nobody needs

You don't know that, you don't have the hard data.

Microsoft does...

Re:Wow, they listen to their users?

[Opportunist]

You can actually name someone who really thinks it's a great idea that you cannot uninstall apps you don't need? Aside of the apps' maker, of course?

Re:Wow, they listen to their users?

[PRMan]

You can right-click those Start Menu tiles and remove them. I make mine look like Windows 7.

Re:Wow, they listen to their users?

[Anonymous Coward]

You can actually name someone who really thinks it's a great idea that you cannot uninstall apps you don't need? Aside of the apps' maker, of course?

Hardware manufacturers, especially those focusing on high-performance desktop machines.

Re:Wow, they listen to their users?

[Anonymous Coward]

Removing tiles does not remove the underlying program. That's like deleting a program's icon instead of uninstalling it.

Re:Wow, they listen to their users?

[Anonymous Coward]

>especially those focusing on high-performance desktop machines.

They would be the FIRST to want to run a streamlined ship, with as minimal bloat as possible.

*Unless of course the goal is to bloat the computers, resulting in the need for high-performance hardware just to deal with all the junk the system is hauling around. That's like demanding a person to lift weights to improve their physique, so they can tote around a backpack full of "helpful" products they didn't ask for or want.

ha-ha, I used a Brother label! it's staying on!

[swschrad]

that's login persistence, thank you very much.

Simplest solutions are best

[Anonymous Coward]

Just remove Windows 10... utterly and completely

They already had it years ago.

[Leslie43]

Most people I've seen using 8, 8.1 and Win10 are using online accounts because MS makes it hard figure out how to get around it when setting up a new system.

Wifi password? You gave them root, the system stores wifi passwords in plain text right out in the open.

The real problem explained

[Mr_Silver]

The problem wasn't so much that you could share access to your network with your friends - it was that if you gave your WiFi password to someone (which what the majority of people do when they visit someone elses house) then you had to make sure that they didn't share access to your network with their friends.

The problem is that Microsoft cannot differentiate between someone who has the WiFi password because they own the connection and someone who has the WiFi password because they were told it. Microsoft made the assumption that if you have the password, then you have the right to offer that connection to others - but this is not what happens in the "real world".

Because of this incorrect assumption, the onus was suddenly placed on the owner of the WiFi (who does decide to provide their password) to police the entry of it into Windows 10 devices to ensure that a bunch of random people that they have never met aren't suddenly allowed to use their network.

That was why it was an issue.

Re:The real problem explained

[jabuzz]

Of course you could just go an change your SSID to end _optout which is what I did, but that was super annoying as every WiFi connected device needed updating.

The problem with this is that most people didn't have a clue what was going on. I know my family members where not impressed at all with Microsoft when I explained why I was changing the SSID on all the hotspots. It was a universal WTF.

The "tech" solution of course is to have a separate SSID for guests that can't access anything on your internal network. Of course most people are not tech savy enough to set that up.

Re:The real problem explained

[AmiMoJo]

The worst part is you can't opt out of allowing people to share the password. They tried to offer a way to do it, but adding "_optout" to the end of your SSID, but this conflicts with other opt outs like the Mozilla Location Services one which requires "_nomap".

the reviewers said that 10 fixed all the 8 flaws

[Anonymous Coward]

so i buy a laptop with 10
I"m gonna buy a copy of windows 7 premium off ebay, and partition my drive , and return my laptop to a usable state
what really really really gets me are the on off sliders..30 years, and they can't get the basics of gui right
ugh

What about collected passwords

[manu0601]

Glad they stopped collecting WiFi Passwords. What will they do with the one already collected? Can we expect a leak soon so that we know what accounts need a password reset?

euphemism

[Anonymous Coward]

however it got a controversial reception due to privacy implications.

It is just a tiny itty bitty piece of their spyware pie. Oh but now it wasn't conducive to a more robust revenue stream and was controversial among devoted IT professionals.

Suck a dick. MSFT GTFO

Great to hear, but when will they remove MOOXML?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why does Microsoft insist on still using the inferior, closed MOOXML format and not switch entirely to the open format, ODF? Making this switch would bring them way more good will.

Office 365 doesn't even support ODF at all. Ridiculous.

Does a sockpuppet by any other name...

[rsborg]

We know that Microsoft has paid shills. The game is to figure out who they are. The hard part is that so many naive people are rabid Microsoft fans, refusing to believe that their heroes can do anything wrong, or younger engineers who have been in the Windows monoculture since birth and so lack relevant breadth of experience.

Does a sockpuppet by any other name sound as shrill?

Two Words: Persona Management

Re:Does a sockpuppet by any other name...

[DNAgent]

Do sockpuppets dream of electric shills?

Needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one or

[iamacat]

Microsoft is being cowardly here. Most people want seamless Internet access sharing with their contacts. Most people do not want automatic intranet access sharing, and that needs to be addressed with technical solutions. People who want to opt out should have this option, but default should meet needs of an average user. By bailing out, Microsoft is showing corporate conformity rather than brilliance.