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Class Action Lawsuit Filed Against Fitbit For 'Highly Inaccurate' Heart Rate Trackers (nbcnews.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from NBC News: A class action lawsuit against Fitbit may have grown teeth following the release of a new study that claims the company's popular heart rate trackers are "highly inaccurate." Researchers at the California State Polytechnic University, Pomona tested the heart rates of 43 healthy adults with Fitbit's PurePulse heart rate monitors, using the company's Surge watches and Charge HR bands on each wrist. Subjects were then hooked up to a BioHarness device that produced an electrocardiogram (ECG), to record the heart's rhythm against the data being produced by Fitbit's devices. Comparative results from rest and exercise -- including jump rope, treadmills, outdoor jogging and stair climbing -- showed that the Fitbit devices miscalculated heart rates by up to 20 beats per minute on average during more intensive workouts. The study was commissioned by the Lieff Cabraser, the law firm behind the class action suit that is taking aim at three Fitbit models that use the PurePulse heart monitor, including the Fitbit Blaze, Fitbit Charge HR and Fitbit Surge. "What the plaintiffs' attorneys call a 'study' is biased, baseless, and nothing more than an attempt to extract a payout from Fitbit. It lacks scientific rigor and is the product of flawed methodology," Fitbit said in a statement posted by Gizmodo.

146 comments

  1. Didn't take long..... by bev_tech_rob · · Score: 2

    Wow...only a day or so after that study was released and the lawyer vultures are already circling.... smh...

    --
    You're messin' with my Zen Thing, man.....
    1. Re:Didn't take long..... by TapeCutter · · Score: 2

      The lawyers commissioned the study, ie: they paid for it.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    2. Re:Didn't take long..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The lawyers commissioned the study, ie: they paid for a specific finding.

      Fixed that for you.

    3. Re: Didn't take long..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I guess there must be some discrepancy in FitBits underlying legal disclaimers. I thought it was widely known FitBits and simiar weren't accurate devices and more of rough guesstimates/toys like a step counter. There must be a hook to grab money or the law firm wouldn't waste the time sanctioning a study. I'm sure the majority of studies will verify their results.

    4. Re:Didn't take long..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Heart rate is a very poor proxy for energy expenditure as it depends on age, hydration, altitude etc. You should really measure VO2 consumption to accurately measure energy expenditure, but this is quite invasive. Someone seems to have developed a computer vision based approach though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvyM7gAyF_w

    5. Re:Didn't take long..... by BDF · · Score: 1

      After reading the headline ... said to self, "That's gotta be in California".
      Sure enough. It was.

  2. Overpriced fad gadgets turn out to be crap by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 1

    Overpriced fad gadgets turn out to be crap - film at 11.

    I was not sad to see fools parted with their money here except when employers started buying into them and tying health care costs to inaccurate electronic tethers. After a couple of those experiences, I know the technical groups I worked in learned how inaccurate these things were, or gamed the telemetry systems behind them (hint: their web services are usually crap/hackable) so they could avoid health care price increases without actually taking the 3000 steps, checking their pulse, or playing whatever other nanny games the system wanted that month.

    1. Re:Overpriced fad gadgets turn out to be crap by BradleyUffner · · Score: 1

      Right... Companies shouldn't be held accountable just because they made a crap product that advertises functionality that it doesn't have. It's all those idiot users' fault for believing that consumer protection laws should require a product to do what is advertised.

    2. Re:Overpriced fad gadgets turn out to be crap by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Overpriced fad gadgets turn out to be crap - film at 11.

      They may indeed be crap, but the crappy article provides no actual information about that. First, it says it is inaccurate by an average of "up to" 20 beats per minute. "Up to" means "less than", so that statement would be true even if the deviation was zero. So why don't they just say what the average deviation is, instead of using meaningless weasel words? Then later in the article, they talk about an error of "20 or 30" beats per minute. So which is it? Less than 20, or 20 to 30? TFA was written by someone willing to twist both words and numbers to push an agenda.

    3. Re:Overpriced fad gadgets turn out to be crap by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Right... Companies shouldn't be held accountable just because they made a crap product that advertises functionality that it doesn't have. It's all those idiot users' fault for believing that consumer protection laws should require a product to do what is advertised.

      FitBit and others did not claim to be medical devices but rather a way to keep track of your activity as part of a wellness regime. Now, a paid study finds that they are not as accurate as medical devices and somehow the company is defrauding the consumer? I have a number of issues with FitBit including their desire to have me send them my exercise information rather than just load it into the app and they are itchy and uncomfortable. It would be nice to see the raw data on which the conclusions are based to see what "up to 20 beats" really means and how accurate FitBit is in various situations.

      I would expect if someone is undergoing a severe exercise regimen the would carefully research the tools they use to track vital signs to ensure their safety. If I were on a jury and someone said "I was injured because my FitBit didn't tell me my heartbeat was too high while I did this extreme workout..." I'd respond with a "Sorry, but the legal system can't fix stupid, but mother nature can and did" judgement.

      Part of the problem is we expect computers to be precise and accurate and they often are not, and when they aren't people get upset instead of adjusting their expectations.

      --
      I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
    4. Re:Overpriced fad gadgets turn out to be crap by tsqr · · Score: 3, Informative

      Right... Companies shouldn't be held accountable just because they made a crap product that advertises functionality that it doesn't have. It's all those idiot users' fault for believing that consumer protection laws should require a product to do what is advertised.

      The company's website has a lot to say about how the type of exercise, range of motion, and the way the device is worn can affect the accuracy of heartbeat measurement, and they make no claims at all regarding measurement accuracy. It doesn't appear to me that they are advertising great accuracy at all. Aside from that, this is not a case of the company running afoul of consumer protection laws; it's a case of lawyers seeking a profit from a dodgy class-action suit. The consumers who were putatively damaged won't see much in the way of an award, which is the norm in cases like this.

    5. Re:Overpriced fad gadgets turn out to be crap by quenda · · Score: 1

      I thought it was common knowledge that bracelet heart-rate meters were unreliable.
      That's why so many of us still buy those chest straps (also bluetooth now).

      Next thing, we will be shocked, shocked to hear that those body-fat reading scales are a lot of junk.

    6. Re:Overpriced fad gadgets turn out to be crap by stealth_finger · · Score: 2

      Right... Companies shouldn't be held accountable just because they made a crap product that advertises functionality that it doesn't have. It's all those idiot users' fault for believing that consumer protection laws should require a product to do what is advertised.

      The company's website has a lot to say about how the type of exercise, range of motion, and the way the device is worn can affect the accuracy of heartbeat measurement, and they make no claims at all regarding measurement accuracy. It doesn't appear to me that they are advertising great accuracy at all. Aside from that, this is not a case of the company running afoul of consumer protection laws; it's a case of lawyers seeking a profit from a dodgy class-action suit. The consumers who were putatively damaged won't see much in the way of an award, which is the norm in cases like this.

      What's the damage though? Like you say it's a device that gives you and indication of what your heartrate is. I've never heard them (or apple etc) guarantee any kind of accuracy and they don't claim it's medical grade in the slightest. With all that though. What its the damage this class action seeks to compensate? It seems if you need to know your exact heart rate for whatever reason, a fitbit might not be the right tool for the job.

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    7. Re:Overpriced fad gadgets turn out to be crap by Cinnamon+Beige · · Score: 1

      Right... Companies shouldn't be held accountable just because they made a crap product that advertises functionality that it doesn't have. It's all those idiot users' fault for believing that consumer protection laws should require a product to do what is advertised.

      FitBit and others did not claim to be medical devices but rather a way to keep track of your activity as part of a wellness regime. Now, a paid study finds that they are not as accurate as medical devices and somehow the company is defrauding the consumer? I have a number of issues with FitBit including their desire to have me send them my exercise information rather than just load it into the app and they are itchy and uncomfortable. It would be nice to see the raw data on which the conclusions are based to see what "up to 20 beats" really means and how accurate FitBit is in various situations.

      "Up to 20 beats" is best considered in light of a pulse chart like this one. The normal resting pulse of an adult is somewhere between 60 to 100 beats per minute--a well-trained athlete's resting pulse would be in the 40 to 60 range. Presuming the FitBit uses the same measure--which is the standard one--then being off by 20 beats is not negligible at utter best...though the summary suggests that it is not actually consistent in its error, which is really concerning since people are typically pushed to get their heart rate up to a target...even if that just isn't going to happen. (I have a very good heart, and I've never quite mastered pushing it much out of its resting heart rate.)

      I would expect if someone is undergoing a severe exercise regimen the would carefully research the tools they use to track vital signs to ensure their safety. If I were on a jury and someone said "I was injured because my FitBit didn't tell me my heartbeat was too high while I did this extreme workout..." I'd respond with a "Sorry, but the legal system can't fix stupid, but mother nature can and did" judgement.

      Part of the problem is we expect computers to be precise and accurate and they often are not, and when they aren't people get upset instead of adjusting their expectations.

      I will agree here--though I've no idea how somebody could fail to notice if their heartbeat got too high, it'd be slightly easier to fail to notice that you just lost a limb. (Seriously, you should not be capable of missing it.) The problem is that this is a really significant amount of error--this is snake oil ranges, and as somebody else has noted, employers are requiring you use these things and financially penalizing you for failing to hit milestones.

      I would be with you if I was on that jury for the case you give as an example, but what about if it was someone saying they were financially harmed because their employer-required FitBit keeps saying they're pushing their heart rate dangerously high or not high enough?

      (The best solution would be to flat-out forbid employers from requiring these things, but given that if they're even vaguely accurate and reliable then they may be already a violation of medical privacy laws... The question may really be one of who actually gets to take it to court.)

    8. Re:Overpriced fad gadgets turn out to be crap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's common knowledge that chest straps are more accurate, yes.

      However, I was under the impression that wrist heart rate monitors could be "good enough" - that they might be off by maybe 5BPM but close enough that you'd have a rough idea of how close to a given cardio zone you are. I was under this impression due to both advertising showing people using them to monitor their heart rate as well as a bunch of articles that claimed that they were in the 3-5BPM range. Somewhere else on this story someone mentioned a Consumer Reports article that came to that conclusion.

      Turns out that notion was wrong. The "bracelet" style heart rate monitors are in fact entirely useless. They give useless, meaningless data that can't be trusted for any purpose, because while on average they may be off by only 3-5BPM, they have inaccuracy spikes (which can last ages) where they'll just produce useless data. Entire cardio ranges are in that 20BPM potential range. If I can't be sure if my heart rate monitor's error is within a given range, it's useless.

    9. Re:Overpriced fad gadgets turn out to be crap by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      FitBit has always claimed their ChargeHR is not as accurate during intensive exercise. They're pretty accurate at resting heart rate and when casually walking, but not when you're driving close to MHR. The lawyers found the same thing, and concluded that consumers are being defrauded because FitBit advertises having a heart rate monitor.

    10. Re:Overpriced fad gadgets turn out to be crap by fullmetal55 · · Score: 1

      As a fitbit Charge HR user, I did my research before hand. I wanted something to help me monitor my workouts, and keep an eye on my pulse rate, to keep in a a range. As well as to motivate me a bit more. Which it has.

      That being said. I did a lot of research on which one to get, the biggest complaint of the (at the time brand new) device was the accuracy of the heart rate monitor. There were even medically trained people saying that the method and how it is held in place is inherently inaccurate. They recommended a nearly $1000 device for proper monitoring of a heartrate, (a chest wrap one) if you needed that level of accuracy, but for casual exercise, the fitbit did the job, and unless you wanted to have medically accurate numbers, they were "good enough". Even Fitbit itself said that it is not for medical purposes, and that a number of things could cause inaccurate readings, nor did they make any promises about the accuracy, even going so far as to say to seek medical assistance if you suspect you have heart issues. a lot of legalese for sure, but they never promised 100% accurate results. They don't even market to hard core atheletes, but more to the enthusiast level. Which has different levels of accuracy required.

    11. Re:Overpriced fad gadgets turn out to be crap by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      Back when I was running a lot I would use a chest strap monitor as a guide to pace myself. After all, what better way to know how much work your body is doing to measure your heart. If I were running today I might very well be using a fitbit because, while it has a disclaimer that it is not a medical device, I am a healthy individual so why should I not be able to trust it to monitor my heart accurately? At the end of my running days my resting heart rate with around 70BPM and around 90BPM when working out. If it is missing beats then that's at least better then adding beats, but I would be pissed as hell right now either way because this is being advertised as a fitness tool that is not giving you an accurate idea of how much of a workout you are getting at all.

      Unless there is a disclaimer somewhere that "this is not to be used as a fitness tool" which is really more accurate wording.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    12. Re:Overpriced fad gadgets turn out to be crap by notaspy · · Score: 1

      "Then later in the article, they talk about an error of "20 or 30" beats per minute."

      It's a bit weaselier than that. The article never suggests that the device is off by 20-30 bpm, but actually reads:
      "Calculating a heart rate that's off by 20 or 30 beats per minute can be dangerous - especially for people at high risk of heart disease."

      So they first make a meaningless claim (that the device can be off by "up to 20" bpm) and follow it up with a non-sequitur about the danger of errors between 20 and 30 bpm.

      I use one regularly to track my training, but certainly would not consider it to be a true medical device and would never rely on it for non-recreational uses. It also says I fall asleep every night after 0 minutes. I may be a good sleeper, but still, ... 0? OTOH, it seems fairly accurate about recording footsteps. What a relief to stop counting them manually!

      --
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    13. Re: Overpriced fad gadgets turn out to be crap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My charge hr has been within 5% of a hospital pulseoximeter every time i've checked it.

    14. Re: Overpriced fad gadgets turn out to be crap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think the tricky thing is that wrist-based HRMs are accurate most of the time, but are occasionally inaccurate due to sweat, movement, etc. If you're not wearing a reference device and comparing the numbers the entire time (at least once a minute), you might miss those moments/minutes of inaccuracy.

    15. Re:Overpriced fad gadgets turn out to be crap by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 1

      I would be with you if I was on that jury for the case you give as an example, but what about if it was someone saying they were financially harmed because their employer-required FitBit keeps saying they're pushing their heart rate dangerously high or not high enough?

      That would be different, IMHO. If someone is using the data, other than the person wearing the FitBit, to make recommendations or levy use / target requirements on an employee then they are accepting legal responsibility for any adverse outcomes.

      (The best solution would be to flat-out forbid employers from requiring these things, but given that if they're even vaguely accurate and reliable then they may be already a violation of medical privacy laws... The question may really be one of who actually gets to take it to court.)

      I agree. Using a consumer device for medical decisions is clearly not a good practice. It's one thing to make it voluntary but requiring it steps, again IMHO, into the realm of medical advice and subject to privacy laws such as HIPAA and needs to be treated as such.

      --
      I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
    16. Re:Overpriced fad gadgets turn out to be crap by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      If it's advertised as a fitness aid (it even has "fit" in the name!) or as helping with exercise, and that is exactly when it fails, then that is a potentially fraudulent product; and not because it isn't a medical device.

      If it was good at measuring during exercise, but was inaccurate at rest, then that might not be a problem. After all, it is a fitness aid, not a heart monitor...

      Fine print doesn't always help, either.

    17. Re:Overpriced fad gadgets turn out to be crap by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      Body fat estimating scales don't claim to "read" or otherwise measure body fat. They only claim to estimate what it would be in the average person with the same height/weight/age or whatever inputs it has.

      But if the claim in the advertising when read using the words in the actual ad is not true, that is bigger deal. "Gosh, I saw some other products that also lied about what they do" isn't a defense that is likely to be worth the time saying it; even if you found a better example.

      The question here isn't "is it shocking" but "is it fraudulent?"

    18. Re:Overpriced fad gadgets turn out to be crap by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      It doesn't fail as a fitness device. They acknowledge that spot-measurement of heart rate may be inaccurate; and also cite that such inaccuracies--even severe ones--don't affect its ability to use HRM data to calculate calories burned because it uses that data to measure statistical trends. In other words: FitBit isn't measuring (b) BPM and correlating that to (c) calories; it's measuring increases, decreases, and stable levels in heart rate, and determining if you're exerting yourself or not, and by how much (how rapidly and stably is your heart rate rising or falling?).

      I've used FitBit and the FitBit Aria scale (which is, seriously, inaccurate with its body fat percentage measurement) along with calorie counting, and noticed a long-term trend of weight loss if I burned more calories than I took in. Weight fluctuates such that I might weigh 2 pounds more one day than the next, although I've held it pretty stable (half a pound fluctuation) by measuring at the same time under the same conditions (notably, in the morning, before eating, before showering, after pissing--minimal hydration level and post-fast); however, I lost 20 pounds in 3 months with moderate activity (walking for 20 minutes per day after lunch). I ate more when I burned more calories, and made sure I was coming under most of the time. As long as I kept that trend--even when I was burning 2700kcal/day and eating 2500, notably Popeye's Fried Chicken 1,100kcal lunch 3 days per week--my gut fat went down and my weight decreased.

      Based on that, I would say they got the general trend correct, surprisingly so.

    19. Re:Overpriced fad gadgets turn out to be crap by pbhenson · · Score: 1

      Try looking at the actual study:

      http://www.lieffcabraser.com/p...

      Did you really expect a news article to represent it accurately 8-/?

    20. Re:Overpriced fad gadgets turn out to be crap by quenda · · Score: 1

      Yes they do. A "proper" one measures bioelectrical impedance. Muscle conducts better than fat.

    21. Re:Overpriced fad gadgets turn out to be crap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's the damage though?>

      A heart attack causing your death. Nothing consumers should be concerned about IYHO.

  3. Depends on the jury by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm skeptical to think this will work to well. The fitbit isn't classified as a medical device but as a health monitoring device. Without any sort of certifications it tends to mean they legally have to be fairly scant on their claims for fear of the FDA cracking down on them, so any lawsuits based on their accuracy are going to have a hell of a time. It'll all come down to how sympathetic of a jury they get is.

    1. Re:Depends on the jury by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 1

      >> fitbit isn't classified as a medical device but as a health monitoring device

      And...the information collected by corporations from these things is generally considered to be exempt from HIPAA because it's "fitness information" not "medical information". We've heard the rules of the game.

      However, there's a lot of money at stake here because corporations are using these things to decide who should pay more or less for health plans, and the more unscrupulous companies may also be using everyone's "optional" fitness information to weed out the laziest/largest/oldest/pregnant employees in their work force. I'd expect a lot more class action lawsuits to fly before this is all over.

    2. Re:Depends on the jury by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      But even the term "health monitoring device" needs to be qualified. It is a health monitoring device only at low intensity.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
  4. This is not possible. by goombah99 · · Score: 5, Funny

    These devices were designed by Nathan Myhrvold. They are accurate but you have the wrong pulse.

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
  5. "not intended to be scientific or medical devices" by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

    Fitbit did send a written reply to WTHR, saying that its devices "are designed to provide meaningful data to our users to help them reach their health and fitness goals, and are not intended to be scientific or medical devices."

    Well, then. I was thinking of getting one to help me get and stay close to max-rate for interval training. 14% inaccuracy would be wildly dangerous in that case.

    The lawyers may be scum, but I'm glad to have read these articles.

    --
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  6. But not for the burns and rashes? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But not for the burns and rashes? Weird.

  7. Welcome to the health industry by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 2
    I have to wonder what dingdong thought that making human health part of the internet of things was a good idea. If you thought that software litigation was expensive, wait until some failure of your fitbit or other monitoring device is accused of causing the problem, and heaven help you if a female user of the devices has a baby with some defect.

    Expect the prices of these things to soar as their liability insurance costs far outweigh their costs of production and advertising.

    --
    The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    1. Re:Welcome to the health industry by Kierthos · · Score: 1

      As they had a $358 million IPO, that dingdong thought "Hey, I bet I can make a lot of money."

      --
      Mr. Hu is not a ninja.
    2. Re:Welcome to the health industry by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      As they had a $358 million IPO, that dingdong thought "Hey, I bet I can make a lot of money."

      358 million is just a drop in the bucket when the full effects of the liability exposure kicks in.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    3. Re:Welcome to the health industry by jon3k · · Score: 1

      I have to wonder what dingdong thought that making human health part of the internet of things was a good idea.

      If you think consumer health data delivered via the internet is bad, I've got some really bad news for you. There are many commercial EMR platforms delivered via the internet.

    4. Re:Welcome to the health industry by mrchaotica · · Score: 2

      Liability? LOLWUT? Liability is irrelevant! The execs' cut is already in an offshore bank somewhere, so who cares if some meaningless paper entity has to declare bankruptcy? Privatize the profits, socialize the liabilities!

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    5. Re:Welcome to the health industry by judoguy · · Score: 1

      Expect the prices of these things to soar as their liability insurance costs far outweigh their costs of production and advertising.

      I worked for a pacemaker company in the 90's. The potential cost of litigation was enormous. Particularly in the light that literally every customer was trying to die from the condition that necessitated the product purchase in the first place.

      Stupid U.S. tort law dramatically ran up the costs. For example, if a device failed because of bad software and the pacemaker company went bankrupt, every company involved with the manufacture is liable. So in this case, Dow Chemical might have supplied a gasket or something. Plaintiffs can go after Dow even though everyone agrees that they had no contribution to the failure. Because of that idiocy every vendor related to the device charges astronomical prices for any component.

      --
      Peace is easy to achieve, just surrender. Liberty is much harder get/keep.
    6. Re:Welcome to the health industry by myowntrueself · · Score: 2

      Expect the prices of these things to soar as their liability insurance costs far outweigh their costs of production and advertising.

      I worked for a pacemaker company in the 90's. The potential cost of litigation was enormous. Particularly in the light that literally every customer was trying to die from the condition that necessitated the product purchase in the first place.

      Stupid U.S. tort law dramatically ran up the costs. For example, if a device failed because of bad software and the pacemaker company went bankrupt, every company involved with the manufacture is liable. So in this case, Dow Chemical might have supplied a gasket or something. Plaintiffs can go after Dow even though everyone agrees that they had no contribution to the failure. Because of that idiocy every vendor related to the device charges astronomical prices for any component.

      Complex laws/regulations plus the insurance and litigation scams must hurt the US economy so badly. Healthcare in the US is more expensive than anywhere else in the developed world and yet Americans get so little for their money, life expectancy around the lowest in the developed world; the people who profit most are the lawyers and insurers and they are absolutely milking the American people.

      The same applies in pretty much every field of endeavor in North America; liability insurance, various other kinds of insurance, legal fees and fees for permits to get around the nightmare of regulations. Its a wonder you can run a profitable non-lawyer, non-insurance business at all.

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
    7. Re:Welcome to the health industry by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Liability? LOLWUT? Liability is irrelevant! The execs' cut is already in an offshore bank somewhere, so who cares if some meaningless paper entity has to declare bankruptcy? Privatize the profits, socialize the liabilities!

      Then there goes the humans as part of the internet of things. I'm not talking about the CEO's, I'm talking about adding something to the long list of everything we sue about. CEO perks are something different.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
  8. Is it really that important in non-medical device? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sure if it's a device you're hooked up to in hospital you ideally want an accurate bpm measurement but for something designed for the every day joe to wear while exercising, is high accuracy really that necessary? Just pay attention to your body and not a piece of equipment. If your chest feels like it's about to explode how's about you slow down a bit?

    I'm pretty sure people in the past hadn't been blowing their hearts out exercising before heart rate monitors become mainstream.

  9. "Accuracy" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Its a workout tracker, does it need to be terribly accurate? It should be able to track if your heartbeat is low, average, somewhat exerted, highly exerted, or "CALL AN AMBULANCE". It needs to portray a number for most people to grasp what is going on, but that number is probably only a rough idea and unless FitBit is advertising it as medical grade accurate I don't see an issue as long as it can get you in the basic area of your heartbeat. I see this all the time in my line of work (mapping), people see a line on a map and assume that its certified accurate to a millimeter when in reality it is more like a dash GPS, it'll get you close a majority of the time but don't trust it completely unless you want to eventually end up in a lake.

  10. Re:"not intended to be scientific or medical devic by DigiShaman · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The fallout from this will be regardless of whether or not the disclaimer was there, but rather NO MEDICAL ANALYSIS can be performed on a non-certified device!! This is just paving the way for future legislation to solidify that notion. What will be interesting - and bring a big fucking bag of popcorn - is how both Google and Apple will team up against Federal regulatory action. You want to talk about political nuclear war, baby, this would be it; right up there with encryption!

    --
    Life is not for the lazy.
  11. Fitbit innacuracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have noticed myself while working out and running on a treadmill that the treadmill would often say my heart rate was 15-20 bpm faster on the treadmill then on my Fitbit charge HR. I purposefully would end up checking both at times when my to check my heart rate and was surprised to see it was nearly always off while running. I purchased my Fitbit charge HR to be able to keep myself in my cardio zone while working out. This finding completely supports what I was figuring out that this device should never have been purchased for this reason, although it is advertised for this use!

    1. Re:Fitbit innacuracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you wear your Fitbit properly and according to the instructions, it will display the correct heart rate. It is not supposed to be loose around your wrist like a watch. It is supposed to be snug around your wrist such that the sensor stays put.

      Follow directions.

  12. Accuracy of other heart rate monitors? by jasenj1 · · Score: 1

    How does the FitBits' accuracy compare with the many other consumer-grade heart rate monitors on the market? e.g. The ones with a strap you wear around your chest.

    If the FitBits do a bad job of measuring heart rate - to the point of being worthless noise - then I agree they ought to be sued for selling a product that doesn't do what it advertises. But I'd like to see a less biased party - such as a fitness magazine, or Consumer Reports - do the testing rather than a lawyer chasing a paycheck.

    1. Re:Accuracy of other heart rate monitors? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have a Garmin chest strap for my 520 computer and it seems to be dead on balls accurate. I also have a Fitbit and when I use it according to the directions, it displays the exact same number as the Garmin.

      It's hard to accurately measure heart rate on the wrist unless the monitor is snug. Most people don't follow the directions that plainly say to wear the Fitbit snug against your wrist.

      This is yet another case of "let me sue because I don't follow instructions."

    2. Re:Accuracy of other heart rate monitors? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My personal experience with the Charge HR is that its fine if I'm not doing anything. Its wildly inaccurate when I work out. My heart rate will be ~140 bpm and the HR says its 85. This is on a bike arm steady, and the HR positioned correctly. Its been useless for me as a heart rate monitor, except for monitoring my resting bpm.

    3. Re:Accuracy of other heart rate monitors? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I had the same experience with the Basis smart watch. Are there any smart watches that succeed in accurately monitoring heart rate?

    4. Re:Accuracy of other heart rate monitors? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds like my experiences with the Apple Watch. Somewhere I have a screenshot of the Apple Watch telling me that I'm biking at about 15MPH and that my heart rate is 67BPM. Which is annoying because I spent extra on the Apple Watch in the theory that I could have both a fitness tracker and a more traditional smart watch at the same time. Nope!

    5. Re:Accuracy of other heart rate monitors? by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

      Here's a review from a reviewer I trust. Compared to heart rate straps, wrist based HRMs seem to be not very good at tracking heart rate during intense workouts. It also seems like it has trouble tracking changes that occur quickly during such as during interval training.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
  13. Garmin saw it coming by krouic · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I was wondering why Garmin (FitBit competitor) was proeminently displaying the disclaimer below on their Web site.
    Now I know why..

    Activity Tracking Accuracy

    Garmin activity trackers are intended to be tools to provide you with information to encourage an active and healthy lifestyle. Garmin activity trackers rely on sensors that track your movement and other metrics. The data and information provided by these devices is intended to be a close estimation of your activity and metrics tracked, but may not be completely accurate, including step, sleep, distance, heart rate and calorie data. Garmin activity trackers are not medical devices, and the data provided by them is not intended to be utilized for medical purposes and is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. Garmin recommends you consult your doctor before engaging in any exercise routine.

    Accuracy of Wrist-based Heart Rate (Elevate)

    The optical wrist heart rate (HR) monitor for Garmin wearables is a valuable tool that can provide an accurate estimation of the user’s heart rate at any given point in time. The optical HR monitor is designed to attempt to monitor a user’s heart rate 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. The frequency at which heart rate is measured varies, and depends on the level of activity of the user. When you start an activity with your Garmin optical HR device, the optical HR monitor provides feedback more frequently as the optical sensor is on all of the time and is trying to measure heart rate on a continuous basis during a given activity period. The intent is to provide the user with a more frequent and accurate heart rate reading during a given activity.

    While our wrist HR monitor technology is state of the art, there are inherent limitations with the technology that may cause some of the heart rate readings to be inaccurate under certain circumstances. These circumstances include the user’s physical characteristics, the fit of the device and the type and intensity of the activity as outlined above. The HR monitor data is not intended to be used for medical purposes, nor is it intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease or condition.

    1. Re:Garmin saw it coming by Piata · · Score: 1

      Garmin has been doing fitness tracking for a very long time now so it's not surprising they have all their bases covered. Their watches are among the best and put FitBit's offerings to shame. Not that I think this lawsuit has any merit though; unless FitBit actually advertises their watches as flawless health trackers.

      Regardless of the device, measurements are not always going to be exact because of a variety of factors and HR monitors are notoriously finicky.

    2. Re:Garmin saw it coming by codeButcher · · Score: 1

      accurate estimation

      Hahaha. The fine art of marketing without actually committing to anything.

      Pity they won't accept cash that is an accurate estimation of the sales price.

      --
      Free, as in your money being freed from the confines of your account.
    3. Re:Garmin saw it coming by just+another+AC · · Score: 1

      Pity they won't accept cash that is an accurate estimation of the sales price.

      If it is THEIR estimation, I'm sure they won't have a problem with it.

  14. Consumer Reports Tested and Found Opposite by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    http://www.consumerreports.org...

    The new testing confirmed our earlier results: Both the Charge HR and Surge were very accurate when compared to the reference Polar H7 ECG monitor. During nearly every trial, the variance between the chest strap and the Fitbit devices amounted to no more than three heartbeats per minute.

    However, there was one exception: When our female tester wore the Fitbit Charge HR on her wrist and got up to higher intensity levels, the margin of error crept upwards. During one run, when the chest strap read 150 bpm, the Fitbit Charge HR read 144 bpm. During the second run, the device read only 139 bpm. That problem went away when she wore the Charge HR on her forearm. (And the Fitbit Surge was accurate no matter how it was worn.)

    1. Re:Consumer Reports Tested and Found Opposite by operagost · · Score: 2

      It's gotten to the point that manufacturers will have to find a way to FORCE people to read the instructions before allowing them to use their products.

      Of course, it would help if they actually still provided full manuals in the box instead of making consumers find them on the internet.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
  15. This One's Pretty Good by 31415926535897 · · Score: 2

    I'm sure there's plenty of caveat emptor to go around, but the very first thing I did when I got my Charge HR was to test it by taking my pulse myself and comparing it to the fitbit number.

    The resting heart rate is dead on. (not their calculated resting heart rate--that's a dumb, arbitrary number they come up with, but the real time resting heart rate is accurate.)

    I've had a few troubles with the workout heart rate, but not because it can't count, but because the wristband moves around after sweat dislodges it. It can slip down my wrist and the sensor will lose contact with my skin. But when that doesn't happen, the number is pretty close.

    For a while at first, I wore my under armor heart rate monitor on my chest along with the fitbit, and they were pretty much in sync, too.

    This lawsuit is why we can't have nice things.

    1. Re:This One's Pretty Good by wbr1 · · Score: 1

      A data point of one does not mean that these devices are accurate. I would be willing that fit of the device is a large portion of any variance, but what is needed is testing, and to determine if the company willfully misled consumers.

      --
      Silence is a state of mime.
    2. Re:This One's Pretty Good by 31415926535897 · · Score: 1

      But if the premise is, "they're not accurate" - a data point of one does show that the statement is false.

      It's very hard to prove something true, yet all it takes is one counterexample to prove a claim false, which is what I am providing.

  16. Re:Is it really that important in non-medical devi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's not about max heart rate. some people set a range and try to run within that. don't know why.

  17. Re:"not intended to be scientific or medical devic by Viol8 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "Well, then. I was thinking of getting one to help me get and stay close to max-rate for interval training. 14% inaccuracy would be wildly dangerous in that case."

    I do hope you're being sarcastic. If not then you might want to consider listening to your body instead of reliying on some stupid device. You know, what athletes people have done for millenia. If you're so disconnected from what your body is telling you perhaps you shouldn't be training at all.

  18. What's particularly fishy... by Cinnamon+Beige · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The lawyers sponsored the study, and it looks like it's actually pretty decent methodology--comparing the pulse from the EKG (which I certainly hope is reliable) to the FitBits on the wrists at the same time means you've got one of the gold standards of study design, since the pulse ought to be the same in the same person no matter what point you measure it from (and how you measure it) so you make it a lot easier to analyze the data. You've controlled both for the issues if you used different subjects and for if you measured at different times, so the only real question when doing the analysis is "How well do the parts of each set align?" (You do multiple subjects to make sure you didn't have something rather weird happen like somebody somehow pulling off 'different pulse depending on where measured,' and the number looks actually rather good--a bit more subjects than I'd expect a study like this without money being thrown at it to have, actually.)

    The only thing that seems particularly weird here is that I'd have expected the company to have sponsored this study or something very much like it during its own R&D cycle, because it would be both good for marketing and good practices. Doing this sort of basic study is pretty...basic, if you're trying to make something that monitors {foo}. About the only reason I could see for not doing that would be "FDA might get panties in a wad," except that is something that I'm amazed hasn't happened already...and I would be wanting to develop a medical-grade version anyway. It should sell, especially if I can add in remote monitoring; that would probably net me sales to both health care facilities and in professional sports...

    1. Re:What's particularly fishy... by Kierthos · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but of course the lawyers for Fitbit are going to say it's a bad study. One, they are supposed to zealously defend their client, and two, they're hardly likely to fold this early in this thing, based off of one study, no matter how accurate it may be. Attack by opinion is the unfortunate standard.

      --
      Mr. Hu is not a ninja.
    2. Re:What's particularly fishy... by tomhath · · Score: 1

      I would be wanting to develop a medical-grade version anyway

      I doubt you would want to do that. It's very, very, very expensive and has a tiny market. Fitbit is a hobby device; it was intended to give a rough estimate of your activity as a motivational tool. It is not a medical device and never will be.

    3. Re:What's particularly fishy... by myowntrueself · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but of course the lawyers for Fitbit are going to say it's a bad study. One, they are supposed to zealously defend their client, and two, they're hardly likely to fold this early in this thing, based off of one study, no matter how accurate it may be. Attack by opinion is the unfortunate standard.

      Of course they won't want to fold early! The lawyers on both sides will be milking their clients for all they are worth!

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
    4. Re:What's particularly fishy... by budgenator · · Score: 1

      I got a fitbit ChargeHR (Christmas present) I wear the device pretty regularly and while exercising and my experience is the pulse readings during exercise is highly suspect. When I'm on the treadmill the ChargeHR frequently reads 10-30 bpm higher than the treadmill sensors. Fitbit is not a medical-grade device, if you need that level of accuracy for health reasons, don't get a fitbit.

      Steps and stairs are measured by motion sensors on your arm, so accuracy varies there too; don't bet money on it, you can easily game the results.
      The software can be a bit glitchy and firmware updates seem to fail on a regular basis, so their tech support is really good at talking you therought as they've had lots of practice.

      If your looking for something to get you thinking about how much you are or aren't moving or exercising relative to how much you weren't before, that's more in line with fitbits capabilities.. My suspicion is fitbit isn't really much better or worse than it's competitors.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    5. Re:What's particularly fishy... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It claims to monitor pulse. As such, it will be used by people who want to monitor their pulse. If it was advertised as "roughly estimating" pulse, no hobbyist would buy it because it would be less useful than the fingertips and watch method.
      The vast majority of habitual exercisers have the resources they need to estimate their pulse to the accepted medical standard (beats per minute), the demographic of people exercising who lack fingers or arteries is very small.

      Also, elsewhere in this discussion are many data points of Fitbits being accurate within one percent of medical-grade devices, which would imply that the lawsuit will eventually hinge on what range of use the device can be trusted (the summary and someone's linked Consumer Reports analysis seem to be similar that in certain demographics the devices can show over a 15% error during high-activity).

    6. Re:What's particularly fishy... by MondoGordo · · Score: 1

      IANAL ... but it's my understanding that in most cases the costs for class action lawsuits is fronted by the law firm and they get a large cut of the settlement in recompense. So it's in the "plaintiff" firms' interest to secure a fast settlement.

    7. Re:What's particularly fishy... by daveywest · · Score: 1

      Fitbits are highly dependent on close contact with the skin to take accurate heart rate measurements. During "intense" workouts, an improperly fitting monitor could loose contact with the skin at every hard step. I could see the study being thrown out because Fitbit will claim the researchers used the wrong size tracker and the company's instructions weren't followed. There's a big difference between a product could theoretically fail to perform in lab conditions and how it performs under normal use.

    8. Re:What's particularly fishy... by Jaime2 · · Score: 1

      They also seem to hate sweat. When I work out on a stationary bike, my Charge HR records my heart rate slowly rising up until I start perspiring heavily. Once my wrist is wet, the heart rate reading plummets by about 30 bpm and stays low for the rest of the workout. The rate seems to lock onto the pedal speed as the RPM displayed on the bike is almost identical to the heart rate being recorded. When I run it sometimes locks onto my foot strikes instead of heartbeats.

      At the end of the day, it doesn't matter to me. I find value in the resting heart rate readings I get from my fitbit and those seem to be accurate. I don't use peak heart rate for any meaningful purpose, I run whatever speed I can maintain. I find my Garmin ForeRunner as a much more useful tool during running because keeping a steady pace is much more important to me than getting my heart at the right rate.

    9. Re:What's particularly fishy... by Cinnamon+Beige · · Score: 1

      I would be wanting to develop a medical-grade version anyway

      I doubt you would want to do that. It's very, very, very expensive and has a tiny market. Fitbit is a hobby device; it was intended to give a rough estimate of your activity as a motivational tool. It is not a medical device and never will be.

      I do know both the 'very, very, very expensive' part and the 'tiny market' part already.

      However, part of why that 'tiny market' is because it's a hobby device and as such expensive for what it does. A medical-grade version gets at a different tiny market...but at least part of it has deep pockets. Think about just how much money goes into professional athletes--the medical-grade version would almost certainly be a pretty minimalist device, to cut down on R&D and certification costs, but remote monitoring of athletes' vitals is pretty much going to become a thing.

      The only questions are who is going to get that particular technology to market first, and when they'll do it; that professional sports will buy it is pretty much a given with the sheer amount of money invested in professional athletes.

      (And okay there's some people in medicine who are eagerly awaiting this, but they won't have the money as easily. They'll scrape it together with enough time, but...I'd expect most of the costs to get made back by sales to professional athletics.)

    10. Re:What's particularly fishy... by myowntrueself · · Score: 1

      IANAL ... but it's my understanding that in most cases the costs for class action lawsuits is fronted by the law firm and they get a large cut of the settlement in recompense. So it's in the "plaintiff" firms' interest to secure a fast settlement.

      I'd think that the size of the cut of the settlement might be linked to the amount of time the law firm spent on the case? Or is it set up front?

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
    11. Re:What's particularly fishy... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is a horrible lawsuit in that it might kill the trend to put HR sensors in devices like fitbits and apple watches. I don't think there is any way that a device loosely placed on your wrist can ever be expected to be as accurate as an EKG machine. But regardless of its accuracy it is a useful tool for working out.

      Had a friend who complained about his pulse randomly racing out of control for 10-15 minute stretches through his normal day. I recommended a fitbit so that he could document the spikes and take that info to a doctor, or maybe look for correlations that might explain it. He buys it, he uses it during weight lifting. Complains it isn't accurate and ditches it for a device with a chest band that is more accurate. He kind of missed the point. He readily admits that he won't wear the chest band other than when he works out, and thus hasn't solved the initial problem of documenting the HR spikes throughout the rest of his day.

      When you buy a tool it is important you understand what it can/can't be used for.

    12. Re:What's particularly fishy... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The lawyers are just fishing for money, nothing else at all.

      Their suit is based on people trying to use the fitbit for medical purposes instead of using an actual medical device. They are idiots as well as anyone who uses them or sides with them.

      They are a bunch of attorneys who are barely qualified to be Walmart greeters.

    13. Re:What's particularly fishy... by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      my experience is the pulse readings during exercise is highly suspect. When I'm on the treadmill the ChargeHR frequently reads 10-30 bpm higher than the treadmill sensors. Fitbit is not a medical-grade device, if you need that level of accuracy for health reasons, don't get a fitbit.

      I call foul on this. Is your treadmill a "medical-grade device"? No, of course it isn't. So why are you willing to accept such erroneous readings from the Fitbit when the consumer-grade treadmill apparently is able to get reasonably-accurate readings?

      My suspicion is fitbit isn't really much better or worse than it's competitors.

      Well obviously it's much worse than the cheap pulse meter they threw into your treadmill.

    14. Re:What's particularly fishy... by dcw3 · · Score: 1

      Are you wearing it as shown in the instructions...high up from your wrist? Is it sliding down? I've been wearing the same model for about 4 months. It's generally okay, but that's all I expected for the price. I've had to adjust my stride length because their default was way low for me....I compared it's results with my Garmin 620 GPS watch.

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    15. Re:What's particularly fishy... by Martin+Blank · · Score: 1

      Consumer Reports took a second look at their FitBit review, using a different (and apparently better) heart monitor harness than the claimed study. They did find a few discrepancies, but far smaller, landing within 3 beats per minute in almost all cases. They also noted that when the FitBit is worn a couple of inches above the wrist instead of on the wrist, as FitBit suggests but which many people seem to not know, the results are more accurate. CR is monitoring the case, but they have elected to not change their recommendation at this point.

      --
      You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.
    16. Re:What's particularly fishy... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Having a firm grip on an electro-sensor is different than a looser fitting "watch" using optical sensors on your wrist. Can't afford electro-sensors on a small battery.

    17. Re:What's particularly fishy... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I had a fitbit surge and it matched the readings on my treadmill within 2-3 bpm. I think the variation must be on how people wear it, skin tone, arm size, vein location, etc... They seem to be much more accurate for some people than other.

    18. Re:What's particularly fishy... by just+another+AC · · Score: 1

      A medical-grade version gets at a different tiny market...but at least part of it has deep pockets. Think about just how much money goes into professional athletes--the medical-grade version would almost certainly be a pretty minimalist device, to cut down on R&D and certification costs, but remote monitoring of athletes' vitals is pretty much going to become a thing.

      Too bad then that you can buy a medical grade pulse measurement for $100. The only downside is wearing a chest strap (not a big ask for a workout). That is what they were using as their accurate baseline to compare these fitbits to.

      Wrist based measurement will never be as accurate (especially while being knocked around on the sporting field) as chest strap based monitors. Any serious athlete knows this and has a PROPER heart rate monitor for their sport.

      Disclosure: Professional level athlete. I wear a wrist based smart watch for sleep tracking and resting heart rates etc. (where wrist is appropriate). I take this off for my sport and wear a chest strap band and Garmin watch. The right tool for the right job.

    19. Re:What's particularly fishy... by parkinglot777 · · Score: 1

      It would come down to whether or not Fitbit advertisement is a false advertising. Otherwise, I am not sure how these lawyers would win the law suit...

    20. Re:What's particularly fishy... by Jaime2 · · Score: 1

      I saw those instructions and it did make it a bit more reliable. However, I still have workouts where the HR goes off a cliff after 20 minutes or so. I generally know it happened when I push the button and the summary says my average HR was around 100, but my entire shirt is completely soaked with sweat. As for stride, this usually happens to me on a stationary bike. I make enough wind to not get soaked with sweat if I'm moving. But on a bike, I sweat enough to have two small puddles under where I'm holding the hand grips.

    21. Re:What's particularly fishy... by Cinnamon+Beige · · Score: 1

      A medical-grade version gets at a different tiny market...but at least part of it has deep pockets. Think about just how much money goes into professional athletes--the medical-grade version would almost certainly be a pretty minimalist device, to cut down on R&D and certification costs, but remote monitoring of athletes' vitals is pretty much going to become a thing.

      Too bad then that you can buy a medical grade pulse measurement for $100. The only downside is wearing a chest strap (not a big ask for a workout). That is what they were using as their accurate baseline to compare these fitbits to.

      I've also seen how those go if you're trying to remotely monitor--unless they've finally gone wireless? It's been a while since I last checked in there, since it's not quite my field.

      Wrist based measurement will never be as accurate (especially while being knocked around on the sporting field) as chest strap based monitors. Any serious athlete knows this and has a PROPER heart rate monitor for their sport.

      Disclosure: Professional level athlete. I wear a wrist based smart watch for sleep tracking and resting heart rates etc. (where wrist is appropriate). I take this off for my sport and wear a chest strap band and Garmin watch. The right tool for the right job.

      Honestly I'd not design it for the wrist, either--it seems gimmicky, too vulnerable, and I know from personal experience that there are some people who you have to check their pulse elsewhere if you want to find it reliably...because I'm one of those people. The main goal would be remote monitoring, and preferably more than just the pulse because it doesn't necessarily tell me more than that the heart is beating--your vitals are your pulse rate, temperature, respiration rate, and blood pressure. A chest strap might actually be ideal for getting most of those at once, if not all; meanwhile, I sincerely doubt anything attached to your wrist is going to be able to tell you a thing about your respiration rate.

      Disclosure: Trained in medical research and participate in sports where a wrist-worn anything is likely to get broken quickly...among other things. (I favor sports where take your watch off before practicing, no less competing.) The amount I care for where you wear a monitor is vastly less than I care about its accuracy, reliability, and durability. And, okay, if tethering is going to be a thing because no.

    22. Re:What's particularly fishy... by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      The big problem with attacking the methodology here is that if they call the bluff and make improvements to the methodology, the results aren't going to change and Fitbit knows that, or should know it based on their own information. Plus, as part of the lawsuit they're going to have to release to the opposing lawyers the information they have about the accuracy of the devices; is this study more accurate than their own (also self-funded!) data? Did they even do the testing to have a basis for believing their product is fit for its advertised purpose?

      If they demand a better study, even though their own data didn't contradict it, and a better study is done, they could be on the hook for the bill as part of the legal fees. Attacking this study is a knee-jerk reaction by their lawyers, but it might be poorly thought out.

      It is just incredibly daft to attack the study unless the results are actually incorrect. And if they don't actually know, and haven't done a better study, then complaining might actually hurt them by demonstrating their intent to sell the product without knowing if it works; even if no further studies are done.

      It might be that the best response would be to claim that the study showed the product to be good enough for advertised uses, and that it isn't a medical device. At least then they'd be staking their chances on a gray area, instead of on denying a provable problem with the product.

    23. Re:What's particularly fishy... by budgenator · · Score: 1

      OKay when I put my hot sweaty highly conductive hands on an electrical sensor and it agrees with what I feel physiologically, vs. an optical sensor trying to detect doppler shifts in blood capillaries while bouncing around on a wrist band while
      I'm bouncing on a treadmill that gives a reading that doesn't agree with what I'm feeling physiologically, I'm going with the electrical.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    24. Re:What's particularly fishy... by dcw3 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, it brought new meaning to the term YMMV when I ran 5 miles (measured by my Garmin), but the Charge said it was less than 4. It's also hit or miss on stairs (hit maybe 80-90% of the time). I've also noticed that the tracking doesn't catch any incline on the gym treadmill, no matter how steep (though I get about 25 flights of stairs counted on my 5 mile park runs...it is hilly), and counts next to no steps on an elliptical. I'm still debating if I'll replace it with a new one with the time comes. It's been informative for the sleep tracking, and step counts (didn't realize how little movement (2-3k steps) I had on days I didn't exercise...I sit at a desk mostly).

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    25. Re:What's particularly fishy... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would be wanting to develop a medical-grade version anyway

      I doubt you would want to do that. It's very, very, very expensive and has a tiny market. Fitbit is a hobby device; it was intended to give a rough estimate of your activity as a motivational tool. It is not a medical device and never will be.

      The wording (documentation, commercials, etc) determines the classification. I worked at a company manufacturing and programming "PHB" (personal help buttons) / "PERS" (Personal Emergency Response Systems). If a client pushed the PHB or the PERS unit detected a condition (such as carbon monoxide or smoke) the unit would phone into a call center. Based on our wording (reviewed by a lawyer) the FDA determined we produced "class b" devices that needed a certain level of testing. If we claimed our units actually saved lives, it would have been "class a" with a whole slew of additional tests. The same goes for many supplements ("these claims have not been verified by the FDA" or "this product is not intended to prevent or cure any condition").

    26. Re:What's particularly fishy... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How well do the parts of each set align?

      Repeat the test x times (10 is so-so, 100 good, 1000 great science) then switch arms. Lather, rinse & repeat x times then avg the scores of the devices, ignoring which arm it was on, to obtain a good test result.

    27. Re: What's particularly fishy... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You should add a disclaimer that you are also an idiot.

      Of course they have wireless monitored chest straps in sport. Here in backwater Australia I've seen televised sport where they show you the heart rate of someone on there field.

      Stop speculating and google it rather than musing out loud about shit you have no idea.

    28. Re: What's particularly fishy... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And the fingers and watch method stores that measurement in their fingers? Their memory?

      I don't think you understand what they are for.

    29. Re:What's particularly fishy... by MondoGordo · · Score: 1

      Pretty sure it's a percentage set up front in most cases .... in some jurisdictions, i believe there are even limits on the percentage the lawyers can take out of the settlement

    30. Re:What's particularly fishy... by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      https://www.fitbit.com/chargeh...

      (all the way at the bottom of the page)

      Heart Rate
      Like all heart rate monitoring technologies, accuracy is affected by physiology, location of device, and different movements. Learn more about wear during workouts.

      The directions state clearly that you should wear it two inches above your wrist during workouts, and the "Learn more" line links to information about this:
      https://www.fitbit.com/purepul...

      I never expected the Fitbit to be equivalent to a medical heart rate monitor, but I wouldn't expect to pay $130 for a medical scanner either. It seems to me that this is a frivolous case, as Fitbit never claimed their sensors were accurate compared to an EKG. I hope they lose this case, and wouldn't sign up for the class if it was offered.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    31. Re:What's particularly fishy... by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      https://www.fitbit.com/chargeh...

      Scroll all the way down that page, and read the Heart Rate paragraph. If you expect it to be extremely accurate, it is you that is expecting something false, Fitbit does not sell them as medical devices, and make no claims of accuracy.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    32. Re:What's particularly fishy... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Coren22 no need to scroll when we saw apk dismantling your ignorant noob ass twice yesterday https://slashdot.org/comments.... + https://slashdot.org/comments....

    33. Re:What's particularly fishy... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's certain you lost all these 3 cases against apk Coren22 https://slashdot.org/comments.... , https://slashdot.org/comments.... + http://slashdot.org/comments.p... and it's certain nobody sane would sign up for a class you teach after those.

  19. Define heart rate. by hey! · · Score: 2

    Seems easy to do, doesn't it? You take the reciprocal of the interval between heartbeats scale that to beats per minute and there you go.

    Except if you've ever designed software and had to look at a problem like this, you'll understand that it's not nearly so simple. The heart isn't nearly precise as the quartz oscillator you're using for your timing reference. Sometimes it throws in an early beat or late one, because it's an electro-chemo-mechanical oscillator that works by the flow of ions across a membranes of countless cells. So the rate is going to jump around a little bit second to second, which will only confuse the user. What's more any sensor that isn't stuck on with adhesive is going to miss a few signals now and then, or maybe get a spurious one.

    So what you do is take a moving average to smooth out all the kinds of noise you have in your signal. Having a fitbit myself, I find it surprisingly accurate when compared against a manual pulse when your heart rate is steady. Watching the figures as I exercise hard, it's clear there's a lag in response as your heart rate accelerates in particular (since the heart slows this is less of a problem as you slow down), which indicates that the device is giving me some kind of moving average.

    And it's OK. The point is to give users useful feedback about how their heart is doing during periods of strenuous exercise, not to give them a beat by beat accounting of what the sensors are picking up. It doesn't have to be laboratory-precise or instantaneous because there's nothing useful users can do with that precision. I've lost count of many times have I had to explain these two things to clients: you don't need feedback that's an order of magnitude faster than you're capable of responding too, and you shouldn't take action based on statistical noise; data doesn't have to be perfectly precise, they just have to tell you whether you're in the right ballpark or headed in the right direction.

    The fitbit works very well for the purpose it's intended and the way users use it. You take a series of readings (which are sometimes off, but recognizably so) to establish what your heart is doing, and then shift to a new level of effort and take several readings as your heart settles into a new equilibrium.

    Anyhow, note the weasel phrase "Up to 20 beats per minute." This means in all their testing the very worst discrepancy they ever found between the readings taken from glued on electrodes from the loosely cinched bracelet monitor was 20 beats per minute. That actually sounds pretty good to me for a worst case result.

    --
    Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    1. Re:Define heart rate. by ooloorie · · Score: 1

      Seems easy to do, doesn't it? You take the reciprocal of the interval between heartbeats scale that to beats per minute and there you go.

      Medically, heart rate always involves averaging many beats, usually by counting beats over a time interval.

    2. Re:Define heart rate. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My understanding is that the inaccuracy during exercise has more to do with optical sensor errors due to sweat, movement, etc. I'm not an expert, but I think you should be able to get an accurate average within several beats, e.g. if you look at an ECG. The average from wrist/finger sensors takes much longer to adjust by comparison.

    3. Re:Define heart rate. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Moving average is the Stats 101 answer to this. It's not "what you do", unless your knowledge of stats doesn't go beyond Stats 101 or basic "what you can work out on your own without any books". Like, yeah, 12-year-old me would use moving average, but it's a terrible solution in a real-time clinical environment.

      It's probably fine for a FitBit, though, and the difference in stats alone between real medical devices with proper filters, and cheap moving average crap, could easily give you a multiple-point discrepancy at specific moments in time, even if the FitBit sensor was perfect.

  20. Re: "not intended to be scientific or medical devi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For max rate training you'd be far better equipped with a Polar heart monitor band and a watch that syncs to it.

    Yes, the chest band isn't as comfortable, but they're a lot more accurate.

  21. In totally unrelated news... by operagost · · Score: 0

    Zephyr's BioHarness is found to return pulse rates that are off by as much as 20 BPM.

    --

    Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
  22. "Up to" by brec · · Score: 3, Interesting

    "miscalculated heart rates by up to 20 beats per minute"

    "Up to" -- like "as much as" -- is a marketing phrase, not a description of results. I haven't read the study -- I didn't see any useful information in the linked NBC News article as to how to find it.

    1. Re:"Up to" by ausekilis · · Score: 1

      Comcast and their ilk can legally advertise their ~4Mbps download speed as "Up to 100 Mbps" without providing an estimated lower bound. Lets see how these claims hold up in court.

      (grabs Soda, popcorn and a big box of candy)

    2. Re:"Up to" by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      "miscalculated heart rates by up to 20 beats per minute"

      "Up to" -- like "as much as" -- is a marketing phrase, not a description of results. I haven't read the study -- I didn't see any useful information in the linked NBC News article as to how to find it.

      I always like it when you read that something came in the top 7 (or any other random number). So it came 7th then.

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
    3. Re:"Up to" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Up to" -- like "as much as" -- is a marketing phrase

      Wrong. "Up to" is just a reflection of the statistics, the biggest number observed. It can be helpful or it can be misleading, it all depends on how it is used. In this specific case, it could be called misleading. But that doesn't mean that knowing the best-case (or worst-case) figures is always "marketing". Sometimes it's the only thing you want to know.

    4. Re:"Up to" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If it can at least once misguessing the heart rate by 20 beats per minute, then it is indeed grossly inaccurate. Useless, in other words.

    5. Re:"Up to" by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      But you could save up to 15% or more...

    6. Re:"Up to" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Depends a LOT on the context, if you measured your heartbeat with certified equipment for a full workout and it was on average 20 beats per minute off you could very well have a point. But the "up to" notation that they use makes me think they were measuring on a lot smaller timescale, something like for 95% of the workout it was within a few BPM but during a couple portions of a few seconds to a minute it was off by 20. Quite frankly anyone who expects one of these devices to have the same accuracy as a several thousand dollar medical heart rate monitor is a moron, but they should still get you in the vicinity of your BPM. If they do then this then the plaintiffs should eat some major fines/fees (heck I'm a fan of lifetime disbarment for frivolous lawsuits), if not then hopefully FitBit will be punished for producing a shoddy device.

    7. Re:"Up to" by Xyrus · · Score: 1

      This is really stupid. Fitbit has never claimed that their products were ECGs. The heart rate is an estimate, and the estimate can be greatly impacted based on a large number of factors. It's a freakin' optical sensor. Everything from dried sweat to lose bands to body hair can interfere with the measurement.

      They're activity trackers. They're supposed to help track your general activities across over the course of a day, not give you a detailed medical diagnostic on your heart rate. They're an estimation tool to help you manage your activity, calories etc. They don't need to be (and are not) 100% accurate, but as long as they are in the ballpark they can help you get fit.

      If you're overweight or have a fitbit and aren't getting healthier, the problem is NOT because it's off when measuring your heart rate.

      --
      ~X~
    8. Re:"Up to" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Oh it's better than that, it's "by up to ... on average!"

      Comparative results from rest and exercise — including jump rope, treadmills, outdoor jogging and stair climbing — showed that the Fitbit devices miscalculated heart rates by up to 20 beats per minute on average during more intensive workouts.

      wtf?

    9. Re:"Up to" by bn-7bc · · Score: 0

      What they only provide 4% of the max speed they advertise and get away with it? I realize the can't scale their netwok tom ptovide 100Mbps at peak time but at least 80% shold be possible. Let's take another axaple if the utilities did an equaly bad job at scaling you wold probably have no chance to shover in the morming and we would have almost constant brownouts/blackouts at peak times, so as mouch as I dislike it there seems to be a need for regulation here. Just to satisfy my own cureosity are you on coax or fiber? I seem to remeber reading somehere that in lab conditions the can bush a mzx of a few Gbps through a CMTS so the question becomes how many costumers are served from a single CMTS? My guess far more then 20 so we have a problem right there if we take into account less than perfect coax + repeaters it soon adds up, if I was the one setting the max speed I would not sell 100Mbps connections on a cox network unless I had a cmts in avery street (for singel famely homes) and in evry building for apartment blocks and maybe not even at that point. but then again would I get costumers ?

  23. Mo money mo money by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

    and nothing more than an attempt to extract a payout from Fitbit.

    This is an accurate statement, even if the watch has problems.

    --
    (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
  24. It's still a great device for the main purpose by cloud.pt · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    Once again I come here to defend my Fitbit Charge HR: I'm trying to lose weight, and it works great for keeping a gross measure of calorie burn vs intake. Its "imprecise" HRM is a lot better than a step counter at counting calories spent, even on average - even if the instantaneous heart rate is 10-20 BPM off from the actual one, you're likely still in the zone it uses to calculate calories. And it isn't off that long from my own experience. I have simultaneously used twice or "thrice" a Charge HR, Mi Band Pulse and chest HRM on workout sessions, and despite both imaging-based devices rarely being on the same as the chest one, they correct themselves to "close enough" status after seconds, and you don't change zones in seconds. The Fitbit is much better than the Mi Band as it clearly scans with a much higher frequency (I can see just from the leds lighting more often on exercise mode on both). At the end of the day, apps that use the chest monitor will basically provide the same calorie output as both the Charge and the Mi Band. I believe all this ruckus from over-expectationers is because they couldn't distinguish the type of product they were buying - people in the cities, more likely to purchase such devices are also more prone to use gyms and practice amateur sports, thus require better accuracy found in a chest HRM. But in part, this was also Fitbit's mistake: selling the product as such and targeting a market too focused on unimportant markers such as second-accurate BPMs.

    1. Re:It's still a great device for the main purpose by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      IF that is true... the heartbeat is inaccurate but ultimately the calories burned is accurate. then they should have totally avoided the problem by only tracking the heart internally and not displaying the rate as it sees it. If people look down and see a heart rate why the heck wouldn't they believe it?

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    2. Re:It's still a great device for the main purpose by cloud.pt · · Score: 1

      that is actually a good point, but then they wouldn't sell devices. When you're in a highly competitive, disruptive market, you're not gonna sell anything if you have an innovative piece of hardware that counts heartbeat and then just uses it as a measure of calories, hiding away the inaccurate numbers for the sake of some people's expectations. It is an economic standpoint, but then again, every piece of technology starts out from inaccurate technology that improves over time according to the standards they are bound (case in point: this isn't a medical device and isn't sold as such, thus doesn't need FDA-like approval). Just look at Tesla's Model X - it is apparently full of QA issues, but then again everybody is praising its innovations. Everything has its advantages while some dread its issues. This is how innovation, technology and economy works, and it's also how science itself works - building upon what you have.

  25. Exactly how has this harmed anyone? by kriston · · Score: 2

    Exactly how has this harmed anyone?

    Everyone knows pedometers aren't accurate. This is just a continuation of what we all knew in the 1980s and 1990s.

    I don't see how this lawsuit has any merit whatsoever. Whom has it harmed, and how?

    What about all the other pedometers, like the ones health insurance companies issue to employees with which points are earned to obtain discounts?

    --

    Kriston

  26. I thought it was well known by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

    Good to see some actual studies done on this, but I think that many people who work out already knew about this. Here's a review of the Fitbit Charge HR which shows that during periods of intense exercise, that the fitbit doesn't track very well. It seems to do a pretty good job when you aren't exercising, but compared even to a heart rate strap worn on the chest, the accuracy is lacking.

    --

    Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
  27. 87% accurate! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All measurements come with a measurement error. At what point do we say that something is "accurate" or "inaccurate"?

    If I have a heart rate of 150 bpm while exercising and the fitbit reads 130 (off by 20 beats per minute), it is reporting the correct value to within 87% That seems pretty good to me for a cheap device. How much would it have to improve to be "accurate"?

  28. Quite poor on the bike by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For whatever reason it does not seem to pick up efforts on the bike properly, often I'm 170-180bpm (puffing hard and putting in a good effort) and the Fitbit is reading 110-130, and if the Fitbit forum is anything to go by a lot of other people have issues with it not really working properly on the bike.

  29. Common sense by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

    There is a lot of ground between the reality and the claim here. The claim is that it is not a medical device, but that leaves a lot open to interpretation. Common sense would indicate if it shows you a number then it must be a useful number. I've used a polar heart rate monitor and it flashes if it feels it is not getting an accurate reading. Sadly, the quest for profits knows no common sense.

    --
    Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
  30. Of course it's not very accurate! by kheldan · · Score: 1

    The electrical signals that are driving your heart are very small to start with, and what's worse, they have to be sensed through your skin, which has a very high impedance to start with. The best way to acquire that signal is differentially, preferably with sensing electrodes as widely separated as possible. A FitBit sits on your wrist, and the electrodes are very close together, and more to the point they're on the same side of your body. Even a traditional heartrate monitor chest strap (i.e. Polar, etc) at least has electrodes separated by several inches, and is close to your heart. Next, the signal is small, and requires much amplification to get a usable signal out of it; the further away from your heart, the more gain is required -- which also amplifies the noise, by the way. Then there's the ever-present problem of filtering noise (60Hz noise is the most prevalent, but all noise is a problem). Finally, based on my own experience with heartrate monitor straps and physical exercise, just having the electrodes bouncing around against your skin can cause false readings, typically higher than normal. Oh and by the way, all the above problems are worse when your skin is dry; the electrodes need to be moistened to really work at all. I can't imagine it being anything other than way worse if it's on your wrist. Therefore: no way in hell is a FitBit going to be terribly accurate, unless you're sitting still and keeping the electrodes moist.

    --
    Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
    1. Re:Of course it's not very accurate! by metamatic · · Score: 1

      Fitbit devices don't use electrical signals to measure your heartbeat. They work optically by sensing blood flow under the skin.

      --
      GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
    2. Re:Of course it's not very accurate! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They aren't monitoring with electrical impulses. They are using what amounts to a camera to watch the actual blood flow through your wrist veins. As you might imagine this means that they will vary in accuracy a lot based on your wrist. People that are so pale as to be translucent get great readings. People with darker skin probably don't get much accuracy at all.

  31. Consumer Reports test of accuracy by ooloorie · · Score: 1

    On January 5, while Fitbit was promoting its latest fitness tracking watch at CES in Las Vegas, a class-action lawsuit was filed against the company on behalf of users of the Fitbit Charge HR and Fitbit Surge. The claim: That the devices misread heart rates by “a very significant margin, particularly during exercise.”

    At Consumer Reports, we were surprised because we had tested both of the devices, and found the heart rate readings to be quite accurate. We decided to retest these models to confirm that we should continue to recommend them. And to learn more about their performance, we added some elements to our standard fitness-tracker test protocol. The result: Both the Fitbit Charge HR and Fitbit Surge passed our tests handily, accurately recording heart rates at everything from a leisurely walk up to a fast run. (The details are outlined down below under “How We Tested.”)

    This should be a reassuring finding for many Fitbit customers.

    http://www.consumerreports.org...

    1. Re:Consumer Reports test of accuracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is exactly what i've found. When i'm working out at the gym on the treadmill or bike, i always like to compare my fitbit heart rate with the bikes/treadmills heart rate monitor. I've always found them to be within 3-5 BPM of each other, and same with my manual count where i count my pulse for 1 minute.

      It all depends on where it's worn as well. To be most accurate, it should be on your wrist, above or on the protuberant bone around the ulna.

    2. Re:Consumer Reports test of accuracy by Martin+Blank · · Score: 1

      To be most accurate, it should be on your wrist, above or on the protuberant bone around the ulna.

      FitBit's documentation says to place it higher than the protuberance.

      Experiment with wearing the tracker higher on your wrist during exercise. Because blood flow in your arm increases the farther up you go, moving the tracker up a couple inches can improve the heart rate signal. Also, many exercises such as spinning cause you to bend your wrist frequently, which is more likely to interfere with the heart rate signal if the tracker is lower on your wrist.

      The higher up your arm, the higher the accuracy. The diagram in the same documentation shows the Charge HR being worn higher than the ulnar protuberance. Wearing it on the protuberance is more likely to worsen accuracy.

      --
      You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.
  32. Re:Is it really that important in non-medical devi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They want to maximize fat burning.

  33. do follow directions! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don’t Wear It Too Tight

    Make sure your band isn’t too tight. Wear the band loosely enough that it can move back and forth on your wrist.

    If you use Fitbit Charge HR, Fitbit Blaze or Fitbit Surge, for better heart rate readings during exercise, we suggest wearing the band so it’s secure, but not too tight, and wearing the band higher on your wrist (about 2-3 finger widths above your wrist bone). Lower the band on your wrist and loosen it after exercise

    https://www.fitbit.com/product...

  34. ruining it for those of us with common sense by j2.718ff · · Score: 1

    I have a similar (non-fitbit) watch I use for running. I like it. I understand it's not 100% accurate. It's accurate enough for its cost, and I'm happy with that. If lawsuits like this continue to fly, such products will get more expensive, or harder to find.

  35. I have yet to see an accurate wrist heart monitor by TomGreenhaw · · Score: 1

    My Apple Watch doesn't do a great job either. I've looked at a number of these wrist worn optical devices and none of them are great.

    I think people have false expectations of what these things can do. Fitbit, Apple and all these companies are well advised to set expectations properly.

    That said, I'm glad to have it even if its not completely accurate. I use it as a guide and motivational tool. I use my phone as a flashlight sometimes. Its not a great flashlight, but its handy when I need one. Same thing with the heart rate monitor on the wrist; its not perfect but good enough with the convenience makes it worth having for me.

    Anybody who needs something accurate should look at something like the Polar Chest strap technology.

    --
    Greed is the root of all evil.
  36. consider normal variation in pulse rate by swell · · Score: 1

    I'm not here to defend health gadgets but to condemn the impression that traditional measuring devices are accurate. According to TFS "Subjects were then hooked up ... "--in other words there was a sequence where the gadget was used and later a supposedly accurate device was compared. A simultaneous comparison might have been valid but sequential is questionable.

    I test myself about five times every morning over a roughly ten minute period. Each reading is different, often significantly. Not just heart rate, but blood pressure too. In fact after years of frequent tests of all my vital signs, I find that there is so much variation that only a monthly average gives me a useful number.

    Don't condemn the gadget without a proper simultaneous test with a proven accurate device.

    --
    ...omphaloskepsis often...
  37. What did they expect FitBit to respond with? by trevc · · Score: 1

    It's a fair cop, guv'nor. You got bang me to rights.

  38. Inaccurate everything by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think everything about the fitbit charge hr is innaccurate including the miles, steps, calories and hr! Piece of junk!

  39. Not even slightly surprising by AbRASiON · · Score: 1

    The early fitbits were basically a computer connected pedometer for goodness sakes (!) yet they charged $100 for it.
    I am sure a device which /accurately/ measures heart rate, altitude, gps coordinates, ambient temperature and steps (if even possible??) could probably give semi-reasonable estimations on health benefits or calories burned but even a highly accurate device wouldn't be perfect. However the consumer stuff fitbit shovel out is weak at beast.

  40. Bigger problems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've had no big heart rate monitoring issues with my Charge HR. Or rather, I should say the three different Charge HRs I have had wherein two had batteries that just completely failed (replaced under warranty) to retain a charge after a few months use.

  41. Heart rate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I am 67 years old and questioned the accuracy of the Fitbit HR as I was constantly showing a heart rate of 64 to 68 at rest. I haven't had this heart rate since I was in my teens and in prime rate as I played multiple sports. My doctor monitors my heart rate at rest and it usually measures 68-72 but never 64. In fairness I haven't tried it when exercising but am schectible about the accuracy.

  42. plaintiffs study of Fitbit accuracy by RobertWayneWilliams · · Score: 1

    This study was not peer reviewed, and it appears to me that it has problems that would make it unpublishable. The methods section of the report describes data collection in a way that makes it clear that instructions for taking accurate heart rate readings in the Fitbit manual were purposefully ignored. These instructions describe stopping, staying still for a few seconds, and then taking a reading. This paragraph is just above the paragraph containing dominant and non-dominant wrist instructions which the report methods do pay particular attention to, so it could not have been missed. The description of data collection makes it clear that stopping and staying still was never part of the protocol since data was collected continuously during active exercise. The methodology used by Fitbit and all other wrist devices using light will never be accurate under these circumstances. The device is measuring the very small motions of blood vessels under the skin. If the device itself is moving, these measurements are disrupted. The scientists performing the study must have known this, so it is difficult to understand why there was at least no discussion of the Fitbit manual instructions and why they were dismissed in the text of the report. A reviewer, like me, would reject a paper with an omission like this. I performed my own series of scientific tests of the Blaze accuracy in March. Wearing both my chest band and my Fitbit for a week of 4 mile runs, and following the instructions, l found a difference of 2 beats per minute (bpm) with a standard deviation of 3.2 bpm at 95% of my maximum heart rate. I can understand consumers not reading the manual, initially, but eventually they should. A scientist performing a study, on the other hand... https://www.researchgate.net/p...

  43. Matches my experience by robfurrball · · Score: 1

    I have a Fitbit Surge and a Garmin 405cx with a heart rate strap that I've used for years. I always wear both when I work out. [Sitting/Walking] - Fitbit Surge matches my HR if I check my pulse with my hand [Running], even up to a 7 min/mi pace for 4-6 miles - the Fitbit Surge and Garmin are within 1-2 beats of each other [Weight lifting] - Fitbit is HORRIBLY inaccurate. Typically 30 beats off, but oftentimes up to 50-70 beats off right after a tough set. I'll regularly walk around between sets and see the Fitbit at 95-105 and the Garmin at 130-150. When I check my pulse, it is always within 5 beats of the Garmin's HR. I once read that it was a design choice to make a smaller HR monitor that uses less battery in exchange for some accuracy. Don't know how true that is, but the differences are there.

  44. Fitbit Manual disclose this openly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They make NO False claims. They disclose the innaccuracy in the devices Manuals themselves.

    Fitbit Charge HR Manual.

    "With high-intensity interval training or other activities where your wrist is moving vigorously and non-rhythmically, the movement may prevent the sensor from finding an accurate heart rate. Similarly, with exercises such as weight lifting or rowing, your wrist muscles may flex in such a way that the band tightens and loosens during exercise. Try relaxing your wrist and staying still briefly (about 10 seconds), after which you should see an improved heart rate reading."

    https://staticcs.fitbit.com/content/assets/help/manuals/manual_charge_hr_en_US.pdf

    Can we say frivolous lawsuit?

  45. At least they got numbers... by SwashbucklingCowboy · · Score: 1

    ... Most of the time when I'm exercising I can't get a number out of mine.