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Ask Slashdot: Would You Recommend Updating To Windows 10?
Plenty of users are skeptical about upgrading to Windows 10. While they understand that Microsoft's newest desktop operating system comes with a range of interesting features, they are paranoid about the repeated update fiascos that have spoiled the experience for many users. Reader Quantus347 writes: Whenever I think of Windows 10 these days I, like so many others out there, immediately feel a swell of rage over the heavy-handed way the "upgrade" has been forced on me and so many others. I had to downgrade one of my computers that installed windows 10 over a weekend I was away, and as a result, I have been fending off the update ever since. I find myself wondering if Windows 10 is actually that bad. With the end of the "free" upgrade period quickly coming to an end, my fiscally conservative side is starting to overwhelm my fear and distrust of all things new, and I'm wondering if it's time to take the leap. I've been burned too many times for being an early adopter of something that proved to be an underdeveloped product, but Windows 10 has been around for long enough that I'm wondering if it might have it's kinks worked out.
So I ask you, Slashdot, what are your experiences with Windows 10 itself, aside from the auto-upgrade nonsense? How does it measure up to its predecessors, and is it a worthwhile OS in its own right?
So I ask you, Slashdot, what are your experiences with Windows 10 itself, aside from the auto-upgrade nonsense? How does it measure up to its predecessors, and is it a worthwhile OS in its own right?
Windows 10 has a number of default settings for privacy and security that are too permissive. If you upgrade to Windows 10 you have to know how to change the privacy and security defaults. Also you should be aware that Microsoft tries to force your hand to use a Microsoft Account as your local login. I recommend doing your homework before applying updating to Windows 10. The only reason why I use Windows 10 is because I bought a PC specifically for the purpose of learning how to support Windows 10. I plan to continue to use Windows 7 Professional on my main PC for as long as Microsoft provides support for Windows 7.
I wouldn't. The UI is a mess in many places, and many programs that ran well under Windows 7, don't under 10. Especially games. 10 offers very few benefit at all.
It hosed my Win7 machine. YMMV
While my two main machines are Macs, I manage around 15 Windows VMs and touch every new employee laptop deployed in our environment.
Through this, at least on the hardware we use here and the VMs managed under Hyper-V, I have personally witnessed more BSODs on W10 than any version of Windows after the Windows2000 days.
When Windows is required and when it's up to me, we don't use any W10 images and disable the upgrade paths for the users and based on this experience, I recommend no but YMMV.
Yes I would - its a much better OS than either Win7 or Win8.
However, my frustrations centre around Windows 10 updates (not upgrades to Windows 10 but updates of Windows 10).
The number of times I have opened my laptop for a quick 5 minute task, only to be greeted by "we are installing a system update" and have the next half hour wasted, or the number of times I have rebooted and run into the same thing - oh, and while MS have added a "restart" option as well as the "install updates and restart" option, it doesnt work, updates are installed anyway.
For all the immediate frustrations I have with Windows 10, I wouldnt go back.
From an end-user perspective, avoid the "Metro" or "Universal" apps (or whatever the full-screen touch-friendly keyboard/mouse-unfriendly apps are called these days). The built-in PDF viewer and Photo Viewer are awful. The Edge browser is clearly a browser for a phone or tablet, with lots of absolutely basic options missing. But this advice applied to Windows 8 as well, and somewhat to prior versions, so this isn't really new.
In fact, prepare for nothing useful.
That pretty much sums up your entire post.
If you have a touchpad, then yes.
If you have a desktop, then no. It's not really suited as a desktop OS.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Let's ignore all the under-the-hood badness of Windows 10. Here are the reasons to stick with Win7:
It's like Microsoft fired their (formerly excellent) user interface and usability personnel, and hired a college grad hell-bent on design. Windows 10 may be good under the hood, but the spyware and shitty UI make everyday use a constant irritation.
When I downgraded my workstation from Win10 to Win7 I felt like I went forward in technology. It's uncanny that Microsoft would screw the pooch so bad.
Does the submitter even read Slashdot?
Over, and over, and over, every time Windows 10 comes up in Slashdot stories, there are multiple, +5 Insightful posts pointing out that Windows 10 comes loaded with telemetry. Just LOADED with it. I can't accept that a person submitting a question to Slashdot would not know this, and also would be okay with this notion of data collection ingrained so deeply in an operating system.
Regardless of the options a user chooses in Win10's Control Panel, the user is not TRULY opted-out of all the data collection. This has been discussed ad nauseam, and I have yet to see someone post a solution to block all telemetry collection while still allowing security updates.
Also, you can't infinitely defer reboots after updates are applied. You are going to be forced to reboot at some point that is not of your choosing, and that's a legitimate problem for many people. (Like, the ones who use computers as productivity tools.)
Windows 10 wrests control away from the user in ways that are unacceptable. I cannot compromise on these things. I will not use Windows 10.
i mean ... it's fine, i guess. it's stable, anyway. it runs all the programs i've tried so far. HOWEVER:
do your research and make sure you disable all the keyloggers and adware and "data sharing" features that come bundled with it, which are turned on by default. make sure you're ok with having an operating system that will basically constantly advertise at you, trying to steer you towards the MS store. be prepared to have the thing constantly try to link you up with your "Microsoft Account" and use that as your desktop login. Oh, and hope you like ads on your Start menu.
the good news is you can remove the advertisements from Windows Solitaire for just $1.50 per month! what a deal!
i could live a little longer in this prison
...Yes the HARDCORE FOLKS will cry "SECURITY! MALWARE! INVASION OF PRIVACY!!11!" and more nonsense. The average person who asks me if they should upgrade I say yes....
When I have been asked by "average persons" about the upgrade, I explain the data harvesting that Microsoft will be doing to them and their family. These are not the HARDCORE FOLKS you seem to look down upon, but regular computer users. I showed them Microsoft's comments on the data that are being harvested. I did not add my opinion, I just showed them what Microsoft was saying about the data harvesting.
.
So far, not one has said they wanted to go forward with the Windows 10 installation.
Let's see: An operating system that forces in sneaky or not so sneaky way in the first place. and Then...has updates that turn out to be ad servers (not security so MS actually LIED about tha tone), updates that change the rules (Windows 10 pro could shut some "telemetry data" off but they removed that feature later so you had to upgrade to enterprise to get it back), data collectors that send all kinds of data frequently, and MS won't disclose what data they collect. It destroys some computers (friend's daughter hard drive burned out after a forced windows 7-10 update). Need I go on? Oh, and latest, Windows 10 wreaks havoc on some samsung laptops/desktops. Everything about it is, collect data from you for their use (that you can't turn off)...plus ads in your face and undisclosed data collection in massive amounts. Oh, and updates no longer have any significant details save "adding enhancements and feature" on the updates so you can't see what MS is doing to your system until it's too late. You really want to "upgrade" to this trojan horse that constantly changes the rules? Better off with MacOS (not iOS, Apple plays similar games there with feature disabling) or Linux. They you can't trust or know what the OS is doing, time to change the game. Too many secrets, game changers (disabling features you once had) and blatant disregard for the users rights to control THEIR computer. (No, MS you do NOT own people's data your EULA needs to be put into government oversight and roasted over the coals for lack of transparency and invasion privacy; Collecting (potentially) data and passwords...come on....) Would I recommend Windows 10 upgrade? (and this goes double for people in the legal/medical profession..) Hell NO!
"Imagination is more important than knowledge" - Einstein
It's not "nonsense. The auto-upgrade is, at best, a breach of trust, at worst an unethical upgrade to a customer's system.
I never upgrade machines; I just wait till a new machine comes with the new OS. That said I went to Windows 10 on new machines at work and home all at the same time, and I have no real complaints, as long as I have:
These are the programs that have made Windows tolerable for me since NT, and as long as I have them, the specific version of Windows has never been too much of a problem.
By the way, I like Windows 10 much more than Windows 8.
Secession is the right of all sentient beings.
The problem is people THINK their data is safe and secure. Almost sounds better to have an XBox or Valve Linux box. you KNOW a corporation is accessing your data and act accordingly. Windows 10 is a wolf in sheep clothing.even if you are strictly using it for gaming. I wouldn't be surprised is MS starting installing sniffers to get data from other (potentially work related) computers on your network and sending that to MS as well. Since MS has demonstrated the ability and willingness to add/disable feature according to their profit/political agenda, anything is possible with a system with shown to add radical "ad injectors" or disable the ability to turn off data collectors you could before.
"Imagination is more important than knowledge" - Einstein
Windows 10, from a purely technical perspective, is great. It's fast, clean, stable, and relatively secure. Heck, it's the first ever Microsoft OS I've seen that is able to upgrade the average computer without turning it into goat vomit. Prior to Windows 10, this was practically a guarantee.
From a policy perspective.... To quote Darth Vader, "I have altered our agreement. Pray I do not alter it further."
That is basically Microsoft's slogan for Windows 10. Unless you are willing to drop $500 for the Enterprise edition of Windows 10, Microsoft has dictated very clearly that you do NOT have control of your machine. They *will* pull telemetry at their pleasure. They *will* force updates onto your machine whether you want them or not. Hell, they even have the power to copy any data you have on your machine. They will not permit you to block them, at least not at the OS level. If you want to block their shenanigans, your only realistic option is to either buy Enterprise or put a hardware router between your computer and the internet, and do your blocking from there. Or just use it as is and hope Microsoft doesn't continue to alter their agreement further. (Fat chance)
And we all know that Microsoft is far from perfect when it comes to releasing stable updates that don't brick people's machines.
Whether you are fine with this, is up to you. As a sysadmin who is ultimately responsible for the productivity of the employees under my charge, this is completely unacceptable, and we're going to be sticking with Windows 7 as our desktop standard.
What pisses me off the most is that Microsoft's obnoxious behaviour is forcing me to set up a WSUS server, because I now need to vet every single update Microsoft release.
I have it installed on a whole bunch of PCs and tablets. I haven't really had any major problems with it.
Do I have any reason to be excited about it? No, not really. I don't think anything significant has been added to the OS since Windows 7, at least not that I've ever found occasion to use much. Since Windows 8, it's pretty much been about getting the new stuff out of my face.
I find the UI to be clunky and inconsistent. The incessant updates can be annoying -- we're told they're "automatic," but when they actually get installed seems to be anybody's guess, except that it usually seems to happen when I've just switched on the machine to take care of some 10-minute task.
Windows Store/Universal apps are generally to be avoided. Few of them seem to have much value, particularly in a desktop computing scenario. They're either a repurposed version of a web page with an inferior UI (eg Wikipedia), or they're just the usual app store cash grab.
Performance-wise everything seems fine, and maybe a little improved from Windows 8.
If it doesn't sound like I'm really selling you on the upgrade, I guess it's because I'm not. But having taken the plunge, it's not like I have any major regrets. If anything, what's done is done and whether to install Windows 10 is one less thing I need to worry about.
Breakfast served all day!
Then the answer should be obvious.
For us running Cygwin that's hardly a motive to transit to Windows 10.
If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
The company who I currently work for used to give us Lenovo SchtinkPads as work machines. Recently, they are now offering Apple stuff, as well. I never thought that I would be forced to leave the Windows platform.
Well, Windows 10 has done it for me. My next box is going to be an Apple.
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
Gee, you'd almost think there was a difference between the operating system on my computer and a third-party website I don't have to use.
Yes, if you aren't on a 7" tablet (Windows 8 still works best on a small touchscreen). There are numerous improvements to the kernel under the hood and from a user perspective:
- It boots way faster.
- It uses less battery.
- Command line and powershell are dramatically improved.
- Bash in Windows is incredibly useful.*
- God menu on the start menu through right click to directly go to all of the "deep" settings that are hard to get to in Windows 7 like "network Connections".
- Snap with rescale. If you snap a window to the left. It will automatically ask you what you want to snap to the right. And when you rescale a snapped app of the left it scales the app on the right to fit.
- Most consumer software is targeting it now as the primary OS for bug fixes and QA.
- The new Store deployment and update system is far superior to install/uninstall and when I start up a new system I just hit "Download" instead of tracking down installation media etc. I hope that all of my software migrates to the AppX deployment system. Also cross buy is nice when available. I bought my first game that runs on the Xbox and PC.
- I love being able to get text message notifications on my PC so that I can read texts without getting out my phone. And then even reply.*
- If you have a touchscreen tablet like a Surface it's nice to be able to mix touch apps with mouse/keyboard apps easily.
- Cortana is working well. It sucks in flight and package tracking information automatically which is nice from emails.
- Task bar icons have notifications so my mail app has a little (3) circle right on the taskbar.*
- Native multiple desktops.
- Miracast to PC. You can mirror your desktop to another PC's desktop as a window like teamviewer. Handy for presentations if you want to view on your own computer without huddling over their shoulder. *
- Notification center is just generally nice to finally have on Windows. I look forward though to the summer update when they add universal dismiss so that if I look at an email on my phone it doesn't have the notification at home.
- Lots of new HyperV functionality.
- native Photos app supports animated gifs and mp4s and webm.
- Windows Hello identity management is awesome where it's supported. I only have it on my phone but I want it desperately on my laptop and PC. Death to passwords. You just look at the screen and it unlocks and can (with developer support) even log you into your bank app etc.
- System wide spell checker.
- Vastly improved calculator app.
- Cortana will answer easy questions. "100 cm in inches" right in the task bar.
- Clock on multiple screens.*
- Calendar on taskbar has actual events and appointments since it is a real calendar not a generic date/time widget.*
- Screen capture. Integrated screen/video capture is a hotkey away.
- You won't have to worry about it unexpectedly upgrading.
- It's a rather stable development target. I like it as a developer because I know everybody on Windows 10 is on Windows 10 or Windows 10+6months. Mandatory updates means everybody supports the latest APIs within 6 months so it's not horribly fragmented.
- Updates are super easy. The guy who was playing CS:Go and had his system reboot wasn't upgrading from 7 to 10 he was upgrading from 10 to 10.1 and you can see how relatively painless that process was. It usually takes me about 15 minutes to upgrade to the latest OS with new features. Windows used to take 2-3 years to get a new feature, now they regularly add new things (the summer update is pretty substantial and has a lot of things I already miss not having on my "stable-branch" work machine. They've really streamlined the build and release system so that Windows can be iterated on quickly. I know internally how huge of a deal it can be for development to have a great automatic build and deployment system for accelerating feature development, I'm excited that windows has it now so that Microsoft can focus on add features going forward. It's generally just a new k
To be fair, you're replying to an AC, so "nothing useful" should be the expected norm. That said, his point over "concerns" seems valid. I've certainly seen people complain that they can't see the contents of the telemetry because it's all sent over secure connections. Of course, if it was sent in the clear, these same people would complain about that, so...
Do you not think it ridiculous that you have to play guessing games as to what of your personal information is being transmitted to the 107 domains that Windows 10 connects to whenever you do anything?
Instead of dismissing the people concerned about spyware by saying 'nothing will please the complainers', why don't you take note of the fact that millions of people use FOSS every day because they DON'T want to be spied on? The fact that Microsoft's clients and subsidiaries are getting their surveillance over a secure connection does nothing to sway us.
Pros:
Cons:
So yes it's worth upgrading, but no it's not quite ready yet. But you don't have to decide by July 29. You can upgrade to it, and r
I was initially a little wary of Windows 10 but when I started using it I was all right with it - for a while. It seemed to be stable, it ran the applications I needed (Pinnacle Studio and PaintShop Pro) and it seemed to be faster than Windows 7. Seemed like a good move for me.
But then I got a new computer with Windows 10 pre-installed. I thought, "great, now I can move my old computer to Linux like I planned and still run my important applications on the new one." Things were fine, until I realized that I was connected to the network without having entered my network password. And it knew my passwords on various websites that I had accessed with Edge. It knew how to access my bank, my social media - everything. Now, I am not a big fish by any means, but I do not like the idea of my passwords and keys being stashed on a server over which I have zero control.
Do I believe Microsoft will do Bad Things with that information? No, I don't. It's convenient to have it know what I need for me so I don't have to look it up. But, it's unnerving that they harvested that info without my knowledge. It also is unsettling to think that it's on a network computer somewhere.
On this basis alone I hesitate to recommend Windows 10.
Be excellent to each other. And... PARTY ON, DUDES!
A friend's Dell that uses bluetooth for everything was hosed beyond repair, because it killed the keyboard and mouse functionality even in the bios. He closed the popup for weeks and was caught by the latest "update" that made the red X mean "yes, please fubar my box."
Telemetry? Canonical, Redhat and others have been collecting telemetry on various issues for years. However, Microsoft is a closed box - so you really believe telemetry data from a corporation that is opaque and has already agreed to aid law enforcement by essentially fishing for untoward activities, is not a big deal? This is literally allowing LEA an open window into your home.
How's that for FUD? Facts, Uncertainty, and a Dubious product.
When I have been asked by "average persons" about the upgrade, I explain the data harvesting that Microsoft will be doing to them and their family.
And depending on how you ask this question, the answer will be what YOU want it to be. The "data harvesting" is well documented and is on the same level as Facebook, Google, DuckDuckGo, etc. This telemetry has been common place in software since XP (at least). Any "user experience" reporting, crash feedback, or online knowledge base/help system is gathering the same data that Windows 10 is.
You seem to be a little misinformed. DuckDuckGo advertises itself as "The search engine that doesn't track you. Learn More."
Telemetry may be common, but not by an Operating System. Users can easily choose not to use Facebook or Google. Choosing a different operating system, however, is much more complex.
It People should get over their OS obsession and focus on doing some actual work.
I haven't obsessed over an OS since I installed Linux years and years ago; that decision enabled me to focus on actual work.
Take note? You mean, like, look at my own systems? I run more than a handful of Linux systems, personally. Also OSX and Windows for software that doesn't exist on other platforms; when working in an industry that uses standardized software, you run that software, which means you run the platform that software expects. No, WINE does not work for everything.
The complaint I keep seeing is not that the information is sent, but that we can't see what information is sent. There are two solutions to that problem:
A) Send the information in plaintext. Of course, then (as I already mentioned), people will complain that the data is being sent in plaintext.
or
B) Store a plaintext log of the telemetry data for the user to review. Of course, then, people will point out that, because it's sent over an encrypted connection, there is no way to verify what's actually being sent.
For examples of (B) in the FOSS community, look at the crash reporting used by Firefox and Ubuntu. Yes, Ubuntu, the entire distribution. Sure, they show you what they're supposedly sending, if you're interested to look, but the data is sent over an encrypted connection so, well, unless you compiled it from source (using a trusted compiler you also wrote yourself) from code you've fully reviewed, you're putting your trust in whoever provided the binaries, compiler, and/or source code.
So, you choose to trust a platform vendor serving thousands or millions of systems and collecting a much smaller amount of data (easier to sift through) rather than a vendor serving billions of systems and collecting a much larger amount of data (more difficult, to the point of impossibility, to sift through). You're still giving up telemetry data to your vendor and you're still relying on trust. The tradeoff you make is that you can't reliably deal with graphic designers (who use Adobe tools as a standard) and video production studios (who use Adobe, Apple, Sony, and Lightworks software as standards), nor can you sell well-tested software for Windows or OS X. Of course, if you don't need to work with designers or video studios and you don't sell software, yeah, Linux can be a workable desktop solution; and yes, that covers a rather large portion of the population. However, it also fails to cover the majority of high-paying professions.That's why people with money use Windows and/or OS X; not because they can afford to use them, but because they can't afford not to.
Careful you don't fall off that high horse, friend, you seem to be losing your grip.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
Apple treats people like shit.
Apples is the least open and least compatible, even failing to work with earlier versions of products they made.
If you want openness, use Linux. Fedora, CentOS and Ubuntu are great.
If you want an OS that is most compatible with hardware and software, use Windows.
If you want to "feel cool" while paying a premium, then buy Apple.
Respect the Constitution
Linux and OS X are "grossly unstable" ? Is this a joke? There are certainly lots of problems with Linux, but as soon as you call it unstable we all just snicker at you and stop reading.
A person does not have to be a shill to simply have a rational look at an OS and see that a whole lot of the bullshit being spread around the internet about it is just nonsense. Also, spouting away about shills every time you see somebody say "hey windows 10 is ok", makes you look a little silly.
My desk at home is crowded with my windows 10 PC, a Linux box and a FreeBSD system. I expect that quite a few ./ people (the older and experienced portion maybe) have more than one operating system in use in their daily lives, and are not scared of experimenting and trying things out. These people are quite capable of comparing Gnome 3 with Windows 10 and saying what they think. Stop wanking away about "shills" every time you see a statement you don't like on here.
If I had a DeLorean... I would probably only drive it from time to time.
Every time I read a comment like this on Slashdot I take a little step closer to never coming back. Anyone that doesn't blindly and irrationally hate Microsoft must be a shill, because hey, "if someone thinks differently from me, they must be paid to do so or stupid". Yes. Because only your opinion is valid. All other opinions must be wrong, because, after all, they're not your opinion. And that's all that matters.
Fortunately, I occasionally remember despite the large number of comments like this, here, individuals don't really represent the group.
Linux is way more stable than windows on my laptop, for any purpose.
Yeah, my iPad is way more stable than windows too.
But I still use Windows on my Laptop, because iOS, just like Linux, is totally useless for doing any real work.
https://pics.onsizzle.com/yes-...