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Big Tech Squashes New York's 'Right To Repair' Bill (huffingtonpost.com)
Damon Beres, writing for The Huffington Post: Major tech companies like Apple have trampled legislation that would have helped consumers and small businesses fix broken gadgets. New York state legislation that would have required manufacturers to provide information about how to repair devices like the iPhone failed to get a vote, ending any chance of passage this legislative session. Similar measures have met the same fate in Minnesota, Nebraska, Massachusetts and, yes, even previously in New York. Essentially, politicians never get to vote on so-called right to repair legislation because groups petitioning on behalf of the electronics industry gum up the proceedings. "We were disappointed that it wasn't brought to the floor, but we were successful in bringing more attention to the issue," New York state Sen. Phil Boyle (R), a sponsor of the bill, told The Huffington Post.
Leave it to the Huffington Post to somehow blame lobbyists without blaming the people they lobby. The only way they "gum up the proceedings" is by their influence with the leaders in the legislature, who are the ones who actually control the proceedings.
A bill doesn't get a vote in the legislature because not enough of the right members wanted to vote on it (for a variety of reasons, I'm sure). You can't blame that strictly on the lobbyists without removing the responsibility of the members of the NY State Assembly and Senate for what they decide to vote and pass.
The party of stupid and the party of evil get together and do something both stupid and evil, then call it bipartisan.
The rest of the world calls it corruption.
The US calls it 'lobbying'.
just wait for just wait for cars to be this way! dealer only is they really want and with that even stuff like an oil change may cost $50 + labor.
Our "democratic" process is just an elaborate dog-and-pony show designed to make us feel like we have a voice in governance, when really the only voices that matter are those of the super-rich.
People get really defensive when I point this out, because they like believing that we live in a democracy (ahem, constitutional republic), and that our representatives represent us, and that our votes matter.
Wanting something to be true does not make it true.
If people wanted more repairable devices, they would have bought them.
Instead consumers have, in droves, chosen to buy MORE RELIABLE sealed devices that they do not have to screw with.
I'm not just talking about the iPhone, or the other Android phones that all followed suit. I'm talking about cars, about appliances, almost everything is more more contained, much better sealed, and much harder to repair.
If the world wants more "repairable" things then by all means make them and ell them. But do not demand that companies ruin products in the pursuit of a goal few are interested in.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I'm a huge fan of EFF, iFixit, and other groups that supported and pushed this legislation. I hope my Monday morning quarterbacking isn't misconstrued. But I studied the USA's warranty and repair laws passed in the 1960s (Ralph Nader's origins), which were in response to Vance Packard's 1960 book "The Waste Makers". The allegations of "planned obsolescence" really alarmed people and led to the strongest car and electronics warranty laws in the world. Those laws are all completely out of date (predating software), but trying to start from scratch may be a tactical error.
Today's repair advocates, are in the right place... but perhaps missing out by by not recruiting some Consumer Rights veterans. Maybe they could market this to the retired people who remember the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975 etc. Seniors who, replaced their own auto spark plugs, they tend to vote in high numbers and could have been sending a signal to legislators. The advocacy I saw for this Right to Repair law was promoted by a younger, cooler, Makerspace set, I didn't see many allies from Ralph Nader's generation. It would be hard to win funding of VA hospitals without marketing it to/through the war Veterans. Just my 2 cents.
Gently reply
just wait for just wait for cars to be this way
The majority of Slashdot is pushing for this. People want autonomous cars that you call on demand and don't have to own or maintain themselves.
So -- anything that goes wrong with your iPhone, computer, etc. is required to be covered by a manufacturer issued repair guide that's available to the customer? Since when has that been required for anything you buy, even remotely? Not even your dumb refrigerator manufacturer is required to tell you how to fix it.
And in what level of detail / remedy would it have to explain how to repair the item? My laptop's GPU has a few transistors that got fried. Are they saying Apple has to tell me how to disassemble the chip, do nanosurgery on it and refabricate a few layers of silicon? Or that "get a new laptop" is sufficient to fix the issue?
Nice sentiment, but full of holes in how it would be implemented.
In the area of desktop PCs, the mantra of 'recycling' is already being used to rather aggressively transfer all 'used' computers out of local communities and into operations that dismantle and destroy them.
My local Goodwill sells a lot of nice keyboards and mice. All the CPU boxes get scrapped by Dell. All that nice hardware, a lot of which would live a second life very well running Linux or a BSD operating system.
And I noticed right after that people in the modding community started recommending Buffalo... Seems the system works for educated consumers that give a crap.
Given that these tech firms pushed to destroy this, the alternative should have been to mandate a minimum 3-year warranty (I'm looking at you, Apple!)
AC comments get piped to
Here are some facts about "the last say [coming] from the ballot box".
That is why I said "it is clear, just look." The facts are as plain as day and in the public view. The super-rich get their measures passed, regardless of how the majority feel about them.
There are actually quite a few layers of separation between votes and federal law. And they are all (or at least, most) a matter of public knowledge. You just haven't done your homework.
Even normal, non-autonomous cars are becoming this way. It used to be it was easy to replace the vendor's radio system with your own using a standard form factor and connections. Now, it's "infotainment" tied closely into the rest of the car, and will throw codes if you try to remove it. Aftermarket alternatives are less and less available as this stuff becomes more and more proprietary.
DRM'ed internal buses in the car are also becoming a thing.
Self-driving or not, this is coming.
Your market collective sounds like a bunch of commies. Why should they decide what I can buy?
What is the next thing, forcing companies to repair stuff regardless of the economics of it?
No, the simple solution is to revoke all copyright and patent privileges from the product so that anybody can legally repair or sell replacements. See, the idea here is make sure we have an open market. We can't let people with all the money use government resources to close it off from the rest of us.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
You can't always know this though. Especially for larger devices that are comprised of many sub-components. For example, my father had a camper in which the heating controller failed. He asked if I could fix it, since it was electronic. When he showed the unit to me, it was completely encased in epoxy. This was 80's TTL tech, normally totally fixable, but not now. $300 for new unit that should have cost $30, tops.
Would that be something you'd actually think to look into when buying a camper? Maybe after getting burned once, sure, but not before.
This kind of crap is infesting everything you buy these days. It's quite difficult to avoid.
Sheep stew cooked up by our very own oligarchy
Actually, the sheep are doing the cooking and serving themselves.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
Some electronics are now designed to be unfixable.
For example, I own an xbox 360. The DVD drive on it is a bit dodgy - it works, barely, unreliably. I'd like to replace it, but I can't. Firstly because it uses a non-standard power connector, but more seriously because the 360 DVD drive is paired with the security chip on the mainboard. The board stores a serial number for the drive, and queries the drive serial on boot - if they don't match, the console disables itsself. It's a measure to prevent piracy (somehow), but it also makes replacing the drive impossible.
The iPhone now does a similar thing with the fingerprint sensor. It's a very common form of failure, as the sensor is delicate and exposed to the outside world. But the phone stores the sensor serial in secure memory - if the sensor is replaced, the phone disables itsself.
If the device is in warranty then it's the manufacturers responsibility to repair or replace it assuming it hasn't been subjected to abuse which would void the warranty.
If the device is out of warranty due to expiration or abuse then the owner has every right to attempt repair. The manufacturer no longer has a say and the owner has all the power/responsibility for resulting "fire, explosion, radiation, hearing or vision loss, or children swallowing small parts."
The manufacturer has no obligation to supply repair procedures or to repair the product but the owner may repair or contract with a third party to repair. Caveat Emptor.
Any law which tries to force a manufacturer do anything it has not freely contracted to do is just plain wrong.
Our "democratic" process is just an elaborate dog-and-pony show designed to make us feel like we have a voice in governance, when really the only voices that matter are those of the super-rich.
People get really defensive when I point this out, because they like believing that we live in a democracy (ahem, constitutional republic), and that our representatives represent us, and that our votes matter.
Wanting something to be true does not make it true.
Close, but not quite.
The super-rich voices matter a lot, but (1) there are some issues where even an individual letter or call can tip the scale--not many, but they exist. (2) Congresspeople need so much money every day that most of the time, your money doesn't buy you a voice on an issue. Also, (3) there are LOTS of ways to be listened to--but they involve using leverage. You don't approach your person individually most of the time--you do it by supporting an organization that lobbies or otherwise works on issues you care about, whether they do that through legislators or through direct service or through the courts.
The ACLU does an amazing amount of work fighting for individual liberties, for example, filing briefs in lots of important cases throughout the country defending your rights. But whether you do it through the ACLU or the EFF or the AFL-CIO or even the NRA, unless you are amazing at influencing public discourse then you get YOUR influence by supporting the specific groups you mostly agree with. What the super-rich buy with money, you buy with a voting block and a block of voices.
(Also, by acting to influence your local and state reps.)
Real lawyers write in C++
We're not talking asinine BS like how the DMCA forbids you from modding your Playstation... on your own and with no interaction with, or aid from, Sony. Many of these laws place some very onerous requirements on the vendors.
They require vendors to surrender internal documentation, designs, schematics, and procedures to pretty much any random un-vetted third party that wants them. This includes software patches and updates, and sometimes even private signing keys. Sometimes the vendor is required to let these people piggyback on their own parts and supplies chain, rather than have the repair shops establish their own supplier relationships. They usually abrogate the usual NDA requirements for third-party partners. And they almost always require all of that with no compensation.
No company in their right mind would let that pass without fighting tooth and nail against it.
Imagine all the people...
You would have a better argument if our choices weren't only Douche or Turd Sandwich.
Good-bye
No wonder you're likely a single person. You can't be bothered to care or even show that you care. Absolutely unattractive to any sort of potential mate.
Conversely., you're so busy typing command-line incantations into your fucking PHONE that your potential mate got bored and went home...
Nah. Cooking's being done by the legislators, their appointed minions, and the courts.
Congress: 94% re-election rate last time around. Justices: "Constitution? Why, I had a bowel movement just yesterday, thank you."
The sheep are just milling around confused, as is the habit of sheep.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
Easy solution for that:
"New fingerprint sensor detected. For security reasons fingerprint identification has been disabled. Please enter your PIN or iTunes account to continue. Fingerprint recognition may be re-configured from settings."
Now everyone is happy. The phone gets repaired, and security cannot be compromised by replacing the sensor.
The entire topic is about when it stops doing what you want it to do, and it needs to be repaired.
So you get it repaired under warranty. If it's out of warranty you can do what you like. But obviously if you are modifying the internals and you bring it in for a warranty repair the manufacturers dont want to be doing forensic analysis and then the inevitable argument about it to work out whether it was a manufacturing defect or the fault of your tinkering that caused the failure on a few hundred dollar phone.
With the tight level of integration of components that we see on devices now I can totally see their point, if you bring in a phone with a failed SoC how exactly are you going to prove it was a manufacturing defect and not your installation of that cheap replacement USB port? Everything is so tightly integrated that you can't really replace one little bit without potentially affecting a bunch of other sensitive components unlike on say, a PC, where you can replace the graphics card and it isn't going to affect the manufacturer's warranty on the CPU.
Clearly, it is the responsibility of manufacturers to ensure that every design they ever produce is conducive to users performing any conceivable repair or replacement operation, regardless of hazard, liability, functionality, or reason.
It is up to the owner to decide what is conceivable or reasonable. Regarding hazardous, not everywhere in the world has the same silly legal system as the USA does, where apparently if Person A sticks a knife in Person B, then B can sue the knife manufacturer.
Never mind that the manufacturer's system is only functional with the manufacturer's parts
Not generally true, and would be even less so if things were easier to repair. In the world of cars there is a big industry independent of the original car makers making spare car parts.
or that there are other contracts (including service agreements) on other parts of the system
We are discussing repairing stuff out of warranty here as an alternative to tossing into the skip. We don't care about invalidating other service agreements. .
We could repair our electronics in 1985, and nothing should change since then!
The change we are objecting to is the deliberate obstruction of repair work. We accept that you cannot repair one of the million transistors inside a CPU chip like you could have repaired a 1950's radio by replacing a blown valve, but there is no technical reason and no ethical reason why you should be deliberately obstructed from replacing the CPU as a sub-assembly
The hivemind [Slashdot] couldn't be wrong, could it?
You are a member of a bigger hive mind - the general public one. Joe Sixpack is terrified by the idea of repairing anything, and even thinks that it might be illegal. That is why he is rolling over or is oblivious of this issue. Plus his obsession with the "slimness" of his i-stuff which does not help repairability. He wants his i-Thing to be a magic box of which only an Arch-Mage living on the other side of the rainbow knows the secret, and things like visible screws undermine his cosy fantasy. That would not matter if the last-year's smart phone or laptop he tosses into the recycling skip could be salvaged and repaired by someone who is not afraid of Joe's Arch-Mage. If it cannot be repaired however it is just a waste of world resources.