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High IQ Countries Have Less Software Piracy, Research Finds (torrentfreak.com)

Ernesto Van der Sar, writing for TorrentFreak (edited and condensed): There are hundreds of reasons why people may turn to piracy. A financial motive is often mentioned, as well as lacking legal alternatives. A new study from a group of researchers now suggests that national intelligence can also be added to the list. In a rather straightforward analysis, the research examined the link between national IQ scores and local software piracy rates -- from data provided by the Business Software Alliance. They concluded that there's a trend indicating that countries with a higher IQ have lower software piracy rates.

151 of 249 comments (clear)

  1. Meaningless by XXongo · · Score: 5, Insightful
    IQ scores are more or less meaningless in this context. A nation does not have an "IQ".

    In this context, at best it is a measure of how well the country's culture conditions people to taking standardized tests.

    1. Re:Meaningless by chispito · · Score: 2

      IQ scores are more or less meaningless in this context. A nation does not have an "IQ".

      In this context, at best it is a measure of how well the country's culture conditions people to taking standardized tests.

      I'm right there with you.

      I suspect that here on Slashdot there will be many posts trying to correlate the posters' own IQ and their views on intellectual property.

      --
      The Daddy casts sleep on the Baby. The Baby resists!
    2. Re:Meaningless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      In this instance (if the correlation is legit), it's more likely that it stems from a better educated population being able to afford to buy software, as opposed to having to illegally copy it.

    3. Re:Meaningless by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 2

      Also wealth, education levels, reproductive rates, lower crime in general, etc. Correlation is not causation, but man does it make for some headlines!

    4. Re:Meaningless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      A nation does not have an "IQ"

      There *are* nations other than the US, ya know?

    5. Re:Meaningless by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      Or charge it to marketing.

      I mean, if you want to embarrass a nation with high piracy (say, China),you can do it by basically insulting them.

      I mean, by saying this, you're automatically saying a nation like the US has higher IQ than China (piracy rates of 50% and under, and over 90%, respectively).

      Goal being that the Chinese are to be insulted so badly that they change their ways

    6. Re:Meaningless by ravenshrike · · Score: 1

      14/14 or bust. Hmm, wonder if i could get into national office with that slogan.

    7. Re: Meaningless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Murder rates and ice-cream sales are highly correlated too. Correlation does not equal causation.

    8. Re:Meaningless by Penguinisto · · Score: 1

      Funniest part is, there is a vast difference between intelligence (which an IQ test purports to reflect) and wisdom (which is more often than not the actual driving force in an individual's decision to "pirate" or not.)

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    9. Re:Meaningless by r1348 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      In other news: "IQ tests actually measure wealth"

    10. Re:Meaningless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      It's much wiser to pirate

      We got burnt by this crap just last weekend for my kid's birthday party. My ex-wife bought a movie online the morning before the party instead of trorrenting it the night before like I told her to. The projector didn't support the DRM.

      Sorry kids, no movie for you even though we paid for it legally.

    11. Re:Meaningless by mwvdlee · · Score: 1

      How does one measure "wisdom" objectively?
      Or rather; what evidence supports your claim?

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    12. Re:Meaningless by ComputerGeek01 · · Score: 1

      It is meaningful in this context because the context is that the study discovered a correlation between countries where a tendency to do well in standardised IQ tests correlated with less piracy.

      In other contexts I would probably agree with you.

      You seem like the kind of person who would have fun with this: http://www.tylervigen.com/spur...

    13. Re: Meaningless by Archtech · · Score: 2

      Murder rates and ice-cream sales are highly correlated too.

      Yes indeed; both go up the hotter it gets.

      --
      I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
    14. Re:Meaningless by Noah+Haders · · Score: 1

      came for this. The summary is misleading:

      There are hundreds of reasons why people may turn to piracy. A financial motive is often mentioned, as well as lacking legal alternatives. A new study from a group of researchers now suggests that national intelligence can also be added to the list.

      but then it says this:

      They concluded that there's a trend indicating that countries with a higher IQ have lower software piracy rates.

      correlation is not causation! I suspect that the nations "with higher IQs" are advanced economies, and people from "lower IQ" developing economies can't afford first world prices for photoshop and ms word.

    15. Re:Meaningless by jmv · · Score: 1

      It's OK, they didn't look at the average IQ, they only looked at the percentage of the population above median IQ.

    16. Re:Meaningless by war4peace · · Score: 1

      Spot on.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    17. Re:Meaningless by Penguinisto · · Score: 1

      Look at it this way: You can be the world's top meteorologist, know everything there is to know about precipitation (including the 48 different words for it in some tribal language)...

      ...but you still have to be wise enough to come in out of the rain, no?

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    18. Re:Meaningless by buchner.johannes · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Correlation is not causation, therefore there are many possible explanation. Wealth correlates with IQ (better education but also nutrition), and wealth probably correlates with piracy. Out comes a correlation of IQ and piracy.

      --
      NB: The message above might reflect my opinion right now, but not necessarily tomorrow or next year.
    19. Re:Meaningless by skids · · Score: 4, Insightful

      My money would be on a better educated population realizing that a larger proportion of available software is utter crap, and not wanting it in the first place.

    20. Re:Meaningless by Hognoxious · · Score: 2

      If the past is anything to go by there'll be plenty of people with scores of 92 who are unrecognised geniuses & special snowflakes.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    21. Re:Meaningless by AmiMoJo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Look at the position of China. Higher IQ than the US, but also a very high piracy rate.

      It's obvious what this graph is actually showing. In general, more affluent countries have both better education and more money to spend on software. The exception is countries like China where they have a very efficient public school system but also low wages.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    22. Re:Meaningless by Prof+G · · Score: 4, Informative

      And any data provided by the BSA is pure bunk. Hence, the study is meaningless for anything other than BSA marketing.

    23. Re:Meaningless by William+Baric · · Score: 1

      ideally, an IQ test should not correlate with education.

    24. Re: Meaningless by fsckinhippies · · Score: 1

      Not to mention urine color. Dehydrated people are more likely to pirate software while ax-murdering their neighbor.

    25. Re:Meaningless by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 5, Funny

      How does one measure "wisdom" objectively?

      It's usually on the player's character sheet, sandwiched between Intelligence and Charisma.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    26. Re:Meaningless by swillden · · Score: 1

      In other news: "IQ tests actually measure wealth"

      Supposedly they corrected for wealth.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    27. Re:Meaningless by ragahast · · Score: 1

      at best it is a measure of how well the country's culture conditions people to taking standardized tests.

      At this level it's probably not even that - but just a proxy for income.

      That low income correlates with piracy should surprise no one.

      --
      .:Semper Absurda:.
    28. Re:Meaningless by wierd_w · · Score: 1

      I would question the legitimacy of the correllation.

      Higher IQ scores (and higher testing scores in general) are already strongly correllated with affluence.

      This result is like an artifact of affluence. Richer people tend to be better nourished and exposed to more novel stimuli as children, as well as getting better educations. They tend to score higher on standardized tests, and IQ scores are just results from standardized tests.

      Richer people are better able to afford expensive software and media. As a consequence, the risk to reward ratio is different for them, than it is for somebody barely staying above poverty line.

      That there is a correllation between IQ and Piracy, (as a reflection of the effect affluence has on IQ) is likely just an artifact of affluence. Correllation is not causation.

    29. Re:Meaningless by SoftwareArtist · · Score: 2

      Reproductive rates are correlated with piracy??? Whoa, now that's a headline! People who pirate software are more fertile!

      --
      "I'm too busy to research this and form an educated opinion, but I do have time to tell everyone my uninformed opinion."
    30. Re:Meaningless by wronkiew · · Score: 3, Interesting

      IQ is correlated with education for several valid reasons. IQ is predictive of income, heritable, and correlated with smaller family size. So you might find that the educational opportunities parents are able to provide correlates with the IQ of their children. Especially so when you consider local control and funding of education and the regional disparities in IQ. Also IQ is predictive of educational attainment. Starting in elementary school students are sorted by academic ability and achievement. Those with IQ deficiencies tend to be held back and/or receive remedial instruction. Those with high and exceptional IQ are given accelerated coursework, advanced placement, and they stay in school for more years. None of this means that education improves IQ, though I agree some children score lower because of poor preparation and imperfect tests.

    31. Re:Meaningless by hodet · · Score: 1

      By talking to the person. It becomes obvious rather quickly.

    32. Re:Meaningless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      from a better educated population being able to afford to buy software, as opposed to having to illegally copy it.

      Or that their intelligence leads them to understand that not compensating someone for the work they did is not a moral thing to do.

      But please, go ahead and make excuses for why stealing is acceptable.

      Ok. All the software I pirate is over 20 years old. A lot of it I bought when it came out 20 years ago, and I've just misplaced the media for it. Other times I bought the competitor. In any case the software is no longer commercially relevant, or available except from abandonware rakers. Whether I buy abandonware from rakers with dubious claims of ownership, or get it from free abandonware, it really makes no difference to the authors of that software, they either made it off the back of their software 20 years ago, or didn't. Just as the framers of the constitution, I don't believe copyright should last over 20 years, there's no way to interpret that as a reasonable incentive, there is no way to interpret that as anything but racketeering. And when you see it's nobody but rakers selling 20 year old software, that evidence backs up my claim. Software is covered by patents; patents expire after 20 years; if software is covered by patents, and is therefore considered an invention, then the rights to it should cede after 20 years, as they do with software patents and all other patents (barring few exceptions).

      Preserving cultural heritage is important, and software is now part of that heritage. If not for abandonware "piracy" that culture will certainly be destroyed in 140 years when the copyright finally expires on it (assuming no more extensions, and why assume that). Due to the maleability of digital media, and the lack of durability that affords, it is quite likely that we would lose far more culture, not just software, due to it only existing in perishable digital form, and the originator not taking adequate care after it loses commercial value in 12 to 36 months. It's already the case that large amounts of source code that authors wanted to release to the public domain has been lost due to insufficient care for the original media. We can't do anything about that, but we can at least do our part to preserve the media that was distributed, because if we don't, we lose all copies of it.

      Given that most media, and especially software has a shelf life of 36-48 months max, before it is abandoned or sold on to rakers (or the rakers just make up a fake contract of sale, as they more often than not do); it is absolutely absurd to have copyrights of 140 years+.

      I don't steal new media, and I'm opposed to that. But I'm also opposed to copyright absolutism. Media is not like physical content; it is ideas and shared experience, and it shouldn't belong solely to the originator, as once it is consumed, it becomes part of all of us like a virus.

      Consider a muffin. If you go to a cafe and steal a muffin; that is wrong. If you go to a cafe and buy a muffin, and decide it was delicious, it's not wrong to go home and make your own muffin just the same.

      I reject your intellectual totalitarianism of the originator. The originator needs some rights, but so does everyone else, we share this planet, and it is not right if rakers can just buy up all the IP until the rest of us are not allowed to think. Fuck that.

    33. Re:Meaningless by Mojo66 · · Score: 1

      Not meaningless. It is well known that on Macs, piracy is much lower than on Windows, as well as iOS vs Android. Since higher IQ means higher wealth means more Apple products, this makes all sense.

    34. Re:Meaningless by manu0601 · · Score: 1

      Goal being that the Chinese are to be insulted so badly that they change their ways

      Summary suggested me the same question: do they mean chineese people are stupid?

      But look at the data in the article: China does not match the fit. It seats far in upper right quadrant, featuring both high IQ and high piracy.

    35. Re:Meaningless by Chalnoth · · Score: 1

      And not just any standardized tests, but the specific questions and format used for the IQ test.

      IQ is mostly only useful for comparing people with the same demographics and background (e.g. same culture, same education). Even then it's not a great measure because it's only loosely-correlated with anything useful (e.g. how successful a person will be at doing a particular job).

      Huge ethical problems arise when comparing different populations on IQ tests. In particular, IQ tests are a favorite go-to for racists to argue that certain races are "inferior", even though we now have very strong evidence that almost the entire difference between different groups of people on IQ tests comes down to how the IQ tests are structured.

    36. Re:Meaningless by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      We have not found a way to reliably measure IQ yet. The reason most of the countries lower down on the graph are in Africa is not because Africans are thick, it's because the test is biased against their culture and they lack good educational facilities. Only a very small part of IQ, if any, seems to be heritable, and it's dominated by environmental factors.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    37. Re:Meaningless by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      How do you store your media? I've got CDs I bought/burned in the 90s that read just fine.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    38. Re:Meaningless by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      What about China though? Higher IQ than the US, but much lower average income and wealth. Of course they have a pretty good public school system, being socialist... Perhaps it's better to say that IQ correlates with education, which suggests it isn't really measuring IQ at all, and that wealth isn't the only way to provide a good education.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    39. Re:Meaningless by sudon't · · Score: 1

      IQ scores are more or less meaningless in this context. A nation does not have an "IQ".

      In this context, at best it is a measure of how well the country's culture conditions people to taking standardized tests.

      There's that, and how this national IQ quotient correlates to higher wages/better jobs. That is to say, more money.

      --
      -- sudon't

      Air-ride Equipped

    40. Re:Meaningless by aliquis · · Score: 1

      ideally, an IQ test should not correlate with education.

      Why not?

      More experience and training may lead to better problem solving even at tasks you haven't specifically trained for.

    41. Re:Meaningless by Bert64 · · Score: 1

      And even if true, higher intelligence often equates to more affluent... People are more likely to pirate if they cannot afford to buy, or aren't sufficiently aware about cheaper/free alternatives.

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
    42. Re:Meaningless by Megol · · Score: 1

      Isn't it more interesting to ask how one measures intelligence? I for one don't trust IQ tests - seeing those more as a kind of measure of puzzle solving abilities, not problem solving ability.

      One example (I have more) of what I mean is those transposing/rotating symbol puzzles where I see some kind of manipulation as the natural one and the puzzle constructor sees another one as the right one. My solution is simpler (less manipulation) but still "wrong". To get a high score i'd have to _learn_ how to "properly" solve the type of puzzle according to the constructor... Is this then a proper test? I think not.

    43. Re:Meaningless by Megol · · Score: 1

      Aren't we all special snowflakes?

    44. Re:Meaningless by Megol · · Score: 1

      Because then it doesn't measure an inherent personal quality but the level of education? That would make the idea of a IQ scale pretty damn useless...

    45. Re:Meaningless by Whibla · · Score: 1

      Funny and insightful, but... ... I wonder why the author seems to think that "Per Capita Cheese Consumption" vs. "Number of People who Died by Becoming Tangled in their Bedsheets" is a spurious correlation. Seems perfectly legit to me. ;-)

    46. Re:Meaningless by John+Allsup · · Score: 1

      Correlation does not imply cause. Further, what other factors (such as higher GDP per capita, level of disposable income in the middle class, poor with access to technology, and so on) influence levels or piracy. Until you have an exhaustive list of correlated factors (rather than just one), it is unwise to do anything other than indicate you have a correlation. This is stuff that I was taught at GCSE, A-level and university level statistics.

      Two are from business schools, one from an economics school. Doesn't surprise me. If an A-level student or a junior maths undergraduate submitted this as project coursework, it would justifiably get a reasonable mark, and a number of red pen scribbles. But that this is coming from three working academics shows how quality has fallen under pressure for more 'groundbreaking publications'.

      If printed on tissue paper at least one could wipe their arse with it.

      --
      John_Chalisque
    47. Re:Meaningless by sabbede · · Score: 1

      In this case it can be representative of a nation's level of development, and therefore personal income/wealth. So the study may simply indicate that there is an inverse relationship between affordability and piracy.

    48. Re:Meaningless by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      Poor people are dumber. This is because poor people have not been exposed to the environmental factors which cultivate intelligence. Poor people can't afford to buy expensive software. Countries in which the highest rate of survival goes to rape gangs and drug smuggling networks would have the highest rate of software piracy.

    49. Re:Meaningless by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      All humans have the same facilities and are technically capable of the same intelligence. Education *is* intelligence.

    50. Re: Meaningless by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      Wikipedia says the genetic basis of IQ is a huge subject of debate. Everything it cites for genetic influence of IQ says that IQ appears as if it should be heritable, and suggests a mechanism of inheritance of environment--that people inherit genetics that cause them to zombie-walk into a certain type of environment, which then has its environmental impacts on IQ.

      Denying access to a low-IQ environment would, by that logic, cause high IQ development. That means a strong school system would produce high-IQ individuals; and that technically-poor countries with no environment conducive to a high IQ would only develop low-IQ individuals.

    51. Re:Meaningless by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      Maybe the inherent personal quality is a myth.

    52. Re:Meaningless by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      Moral? MORAL?! You're talking about a situation where the person doing the copying is *incapable* of paying for the work, but where their access to the work doesn't incur a cost to the creator. The *moral* thing to do is called "charity", since in this case it costs you literally nothing.

      We can talk about the very real costs of developing and maintaining software all day, and the delusions of people who think they're not impacting anyone by not buying software; and we also have to acknowledge that people who think they're somehow losing something because someone with $5 downloaded a $600 copy of Photoshop off BIttorrent are *also* delusional. Legality is a different matter, as are secondary effects.

      Intellectual property is an enormously complex topic. Every piece of physical property requires the direct labor of its creator, and so is produced by time (and effort, but effort can only be spent in strict units of time; it cannot be stocked), and so is definitively the property of *someone*. Intellectual property, on the other hand, is also the direct product of somebody's labor; its distribution requires so little labor that it can be shared for minimal cost and garner a hugely-efficient return, so much so that *other* *people* can share your intellectual property without outlaying much of any effort on their part (sometimes none: turning your radio up *performs* a song in public--an intellectual property liability!). The original creator deserves compensation; broad distribution at a low cost *easily* overcompensates the creator for their IP, meaning most compensation is economic rent; and a lack of intellectual property controls tends to lead to second-hand distribution of IP, depriving the creator of their rightful compensation entirely. This creates *tons* of concrete economic and fluffy philosophical points of contention, and not a lot of good answers.

      Mixed in with that mess is the obvious value proposition: a person incapable of paying for intellectual property is not capable of depriving the IP creator of anything by making personal use of the IP creator's IP, as that person can gain access to the IP without costing the creator anything *and* would be incapable of rightfully compensating the IP creator. That, again, still leaves legal issues and secondary effects (it's okay for him, so it's okay for me--culture of piracy), and this line of reasoning only applies to the original user of the IP.

    53. Re:Meaningless by parkinglot777 · · Score: 1

      wisdom (which is more often than not the actual driving force in an individual's decision to "pirate" or not.)

      I think the word you are looking for is "ethic" instead of "wisdom." ;)

    54. Re:Meaningless by kellymcdonald78 · · Score: 1

      Or that more intelligent people are less likely to admit they pirate content :)

    55. Re: Meaningless by kellymcdonald78 · · Score: 1

      Some people pirate due to availability and antiquated regional licensing models. There are several shows me and my wife watch that I cannot obtain in any legal manner in Canada. I would happily pay the rights holder for their content, but they have offered no legal manner for us to do so. So torrent it is

    56. Re: Meaningless by Reziac · · Score: 1

      It's quite definitely heritable in animals, and where a gene pool shows variation, intelligence can be readily bred for; why should humans be different?

      And human intelligence (in the broad masses, not just the pinprick samples of IQ tests), as well as cooperative civilization, seems to correlate fairly well with certain gene pools; personally I think the more-selfless "civilization" genes came from the Neanderthal crosses.

      One of my primary selection factors in my line of working dogs (presently in its 14th generation) is cooperative intelligence. At this point I seldom get one that's merely "average"; by comparison, other folks' dogs often seem downright thick.

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
    57. Re: Meaningless by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      The point was more that Wikipedia doesn't say IQ is most-strongly driven by genetics; it says there's a correlation, and the impact appears indirect, and the degree of direct vs indirect impact is not well-understood.

      I've been passively interested in learning and intelligence for a while, and my understanding is each animal brain has a certain set of facilities. Cats have different intelligence than dogs because their brains are physically capable of perceiving and analyzing spatial and semantic data in different ways; likewise, humans have much-stronger spatial and semantic processing, including a well-developed language center that can associate semantic information (e.g. verbal information analyzed from speech) with spatial and conceptual information (concrete objects or abstract ideas), allowing for things like analogical thinking. Raccoons and octopuses can perform spatial analysis rivaling even humans. These are attributes of the brain's structure and anatomy; it's not a mass of arbitrary intelligence.

      Consequentially, all humans with the same facilities are capable of the same understanding. As well, performance of the brain is mainly moderated by usage: the brain will restructure itself to minimize energy consumption of common thought processes, and certain processes of thought are more efficient than others for a given problem set. For example: memorizing multiplication tables and addition complements will let you perform arithmetic computations more quickly; learning special techniques leveraging these memorized values will reduce the number of steps and, thus, the effort (and time) required to perform such calculations; and repeatedly practicing these calculations for 15-30 minutes per day for several months will adjust the brain to automatically and reliably perform those computations with those techniques, meaning mental arithmetic becomes easy and rapid. All humans are capable of this to the same degree of success.

      How inclined any given human is to put in effort to develop a mental skill is a different matter. Human willpower is limited by the energy capacity of the dorsolateral prefrontal cortex, which allows the forebrain to direct the midbrain to perform non-default actions. Under stress, humans have a lower capacity for intelligence and learning. Poverty is a form of such stress. As well, without the basic interest and motivation, and with easier alternatives, humans are to varying degrees remiss to expend energy learning and developing. Humans expend less energy learning in pursuit of a concrete goal (e.g. a human will become good at something which provides a recognized reward for the effort, as their default behavior is to *pursue* that reward), and so a human's basic, self-perceived interest in learning something has an enormous impact on the individual's ability to learn. Similarly, given a difficult alternative (not a punishment) and a less-difficult alternative, a human will take the negative-reinforcement path; if avoiding learning and education requires active effort, a human becomes more inclined to learn even with no direct motivation.

      Because of all of this, environmental and genetic impacts are the subject of hot debate. The above should make it clear why highly-developed civilizations with strong educational facilities tend to have higher baseline intelligence than lower-developed civilizations: it's hard to *avoid* education in one, and hard to *get* an education in another. If you're inclined to be an idiot in one case, there are limits on that; and if you're inclined to be a genius in another case, there's no support for that.

      This is why I tell people genius is just technique: any idiot is physically capable of rendering himself blindingly intelligent. Whether he wants to--and whether it's worth bothering--is a different matter.

    58. Re:Meaningless by joboss · · Score: 1

      I don't see it totally meaningless. It can at least provoke some though and educated speculation. High IQ tends to be linked to good education and wealthy nations which doesn't really come without some order. Causes will be varied. Greater wealth. Greater knowledge of the risks of using pirated software (nightmare to update, get support for, almost impossible to rule out viruses, etc). Greater knowledge towards making or finding alternatives. Greater adherence to law and greater risk aversion towards piracy, etc. It more falls into the category of that's obvious.

    59. Re: Meaningless by wronkiew · · Score: 1

      That's all interesting speculation, but it's way beyond the mainstream understanding of the contribution of biology to intelligence, which is to say, not much.

      Also, IQ tests intentionally discriminate between ability and academic achievement. Speed of arithmetic computation can reduce performance, but it can never increase it. Have you ever taken an IQ test? Reducing this to absurdity, you can train a parrot on multiplication tables, but it will never score above chance on an IQ test.

      I can't say it's impossible that intelligence can be improved or reduced with motivation or environment. Clearly environment has some role, and as I said before, individual IQ scores can be adversely affected by poor preparation or imperfect tests. Children may pick up test-taking skills at different rates, but by adulthood those skills become more difficult to pick up quickly. It is telling, then, that a recent study found parent to young child IQ heritability to be 50%, while parent to adult child heritability was closer to 80%. Telling, because parents have more opportunity to tip the scales for young children's performance.

      Your hypothesis fails to explain the results of twin studies. If all humans have the same capacity for intellectual performance, but their development is completely moderated by environmental factors, then separated twins would have no correlation. While there is informed disagreement about how heritable intelligence is, there is no reasonable argument that it is not heritable at all.

    60. Re:Meaningless by aliquis · · Score: 1

      You don't think or accept that intelligence can be improved?

      Adults are more intelligent than kids (well, as-long as the children aren't more well-educated at-least I guess.)

      Your brain learn more and more, deal with it, it does.

    61. Re: Meaningless by Reziac · · Score: 1

      "These are attributes of the brain's structure and anatomy; it's not a mass of arbitrary intelligence.
      Consequentially, all humans with the same facilities are capable of the same understanding."

      This is only so if all human brains are identical -- which is demonstrably not so even with regard to basics like total mass.

      As to poverty==dumb, I have probably known more smart poor people than smart rich people. And economic stats indicate that at least in America, poverty is not a permanent condition; most "poor" people rise above it at some point (and some "rich" people descend to it); if poverty dictated low intelligence, this couldn't happen. There's also the problem that frequently the environments richest in readily-available natural resources have produced the most backward or anti-educational civilizations, while relatively resource-poor areas have done the opposite.

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
    62. Re:Meaningless by peawormsworth · · Score: 1

      Perhaps people with high IQ simply do not get caught.

    63. Re: Meaningless by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      I took an IQ test and scored 135, failing every single abstract question but absolutely nailing every clearly-proposed logical question. I took another one a few years later, after learning analogical thinking; abstract concepts are now broken down and compared to other concepts, and then the common functions are treated as familiar. 150. In practice, hitting 160 isn't hard; you just have to get every single question right.

      IQ tests often rely on subtlety, time pressure, and complexity. They're designed to require careful, direct analysis of propositions with a time limit. That means multiple failure points: you fail to apply the right mental strategy, you get a question wrong; you fail to recognize the subtle details of the proposition, you analyze it incorrectly; you fail to keep track of multiple propositions and several interdependent variables, you mis-analyze; you get stressed over time, you make more mistakes; you hyperfocus, you run out of time. Even Culture Fair 3 uses things like pattern matching and distorted geometric shapes (which box is biggest? Hint: it's an optical illusion; if you're not familiar with optical illusions as a concept, you won't recognize that the seemingly-simple question is checking to see if you're dumb enough to pick the obvious, wrong answer, because why would you think that?).

      I've been on and off studying the style of tests Mensa uses. I can't, by default, beat Mensa scores; or at least I couldn't when I was 16. I've now come to understand more about how IQ tests work, and can recognize and classify many of the questions as familiar, and so my scores have improved. Interestingly, I've gotten dumber over time due to allowing my executive functions to slip.

      While there is informed disagreement about how heritable intelligence is, there is no reasonable argument that it is not heritable at all.

      The grandparent poster claimed IQ is dominated by heredity and only a small portion is environmental.

    64. Re: Meaningless by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      This is only so if all human brains are identical -- which is demonstrably not so even with regard to basics like total mass.

      So all humans being able to operate tools is only true if all humans have identical hands?

      Hint: a Zilog Z80 can 100% perfectly emulate an AMD Athlon 64, but very slowly.

      As to poverty==dumb, I have probably known more smart poor people than smart rich people. And economic stats indicate that at least in America, poverty is not a permanent condition; most "poor" people rise above it at some point (and some "rich" people descend to it); if poverty dictated low intelligence, this couldn't happen.

      I invite you to go take a first-year community college program in statistics and probability and come back and say something not-stupid.

      Seriously. Let's try this tactic: I've known girls who suck a lot of cocks, therefore all girls are sluts and there is no such thing as rape. That follows the same logical reasoning you just used.

    65. Re: Meaningless by Reziac · · Score: 1

      Have it your way. But to me your reasoning sounds like the basic tenet of modern leftism, with its belief that all humans are interchangeable widgets, and that if only conditions can be made everywhere equally good, all men will improve to the same perfect state.

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
    66. Re:Meaningless by Jahta · · Score: 1

      IQ scores are more or less meaningless in this context. A nation does not have an "IQ".

      In this context, at best it is a measure of how well the country's culture conditions people to taking standardized tests.

      Agreed. Even before I read TFA, this smelled off

      It looks to me to be just a new pseudo-scientific spin on the "nice people don't pirate" meme. Remember those "you wouldn't steal a car, would you" messages on DVDs?

    67. Re: Meaningless by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      All humans are basically interchangeable; and the spread of environments and the needs of economics carves them into different refined tools. A computer scientist is not a doctor of internal medicine; however, given the demand for one or the other over long time scales, the stock of humans produces both in appropriate quantities.

      At a time, 90% of humans were farmers; farming is complex and relies on an enormous amount of technical skill and experience (the practical effect of which is often interpreted as intuition), and a computer scientist or rocket surgeon is not a very good farmer. Today, we have many more doctors, lawyers, and IT workers than farmers; even the proportion of our population performing high-level scientific research is enormous compared to the 1800s.

      Note that these people get where they are by exposure to environment. They develop social interests, and attach to ideals. The needs of the world changes what ideals are exposed, and how those ideals progress: a person interested in animals may become a dog trainer, a veterinary technician, or a genetic biologist. We like to think our interests demonstrate our intelligence, but often we find overfilled markets and IT workers as french fry technicians.

      You should also notice the inherent mechanism in the original proposition: we need grocery baggers, burger flippers, and automechanics (although automechanics are more highly-skilled than baggers; we just don't like getting our hands dirty, and so like to look down on people whose work involves digging around in a grimy, oily engine instead of thinking up how to design said engine in a computer simulation for someone else to manufacture). Demand comes from buying power, which ultimately comes from labor and the ability to trade that labor--and from efficient labor (this is why technology makes societies richer). That means whatever we can buy is what we need, and what we *can't* buy is what we don't get--meaning there are rich, poor, middle-class, the unemployed, and so forth.

      We can improve society's hierarchy; we can't raise everyone to an identical state, or an identical standard of living, or any other such nonsense. Welfare became possible at a certain wealth level in 19th-century Europe; today, some highly-developed countries are exceeding diminishing returns from welfare and minimum-wage strategies, and can establish a stronger and more stable economy (and outright eliminate homelessness and hunger) with newer strategies; but no current or future incremental progress is going to create the strange Marxist-Utopian dream of a society with no work and great abundance of wealth for all. Each technical increment divides work further, allowing men to produce more in the same time, allowing us to pay a smaller fraction of their (and our) wages for each thing, and to afford many more things with our wage; this requires the continuous repurposing of labor, and both causes and makes possible (and relatively harmless) the growth of an income gap.

      Most people react to change with fear (running backwards) or immature excitement (diving over the edge). Society is always changing, so you always have a modern, overstimulated, liberal idealism competing with an archaic, backwards, conservative idealism. You also get centrists who are deluded (or dishonest) in the belief that an average between the extremes is automatically better; *very* few actually analyze the current state and determine if a changing paradigm is appropriate.

    68. Re:Meaningless by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Which doesn't explain why some people are so much better at things than others, given similar education. It's no more true that anyone can learn math as I did than that anyone can play baseball like Barry Bonds did.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    69. Re:Meaningless by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      The Constitution says "To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries". It says nothing about software, oddly enough. It says nothing about copyrights and patents.

      It does say "for limited Times", and I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that the writers of the Constitution weren't thinking of copyrights that last over a century, or were extended retroactively.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    70. Re:Meaningless by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      By today's measurements, the average US IQ in the 1930s would be something like 85. It's called the Flynn Effect. Since my ancestors in the 1930s were not particularly inferior to me genetically, it suggests that 15 points of IQ can easily be from cultural factors.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    71. Re:Meaningless by RespekMyAthorati · · Score: 1

      Only a very small part of IQ, if any, seems to be heritable,

      And where the hell do you get that from?

    72. Re:Meaningless by RespekMyAthorati · · Score: 1

      All humans have the same facilities and are technically capable of the same intelligence

      Therefore, there is no such thing as a retarded (or "mentally handicapped") child?
      If you had ever worked with any of them, you would know how silly that is.

      People vary tremendously in their natural talents, but trying to characterize
      those talents in a single number is impossible.

    73. Re:Meaningless by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      The fact that IQ seems to be mostly affected by affluence and educational standards. If it was heritable it wouldn't change very much when families moved country or when countries rapidly developed.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    74. Re:Meaningless by Megol · · Score: 1

      Again: then it isn't a inherent personal quality. IQ tests are used for situations where it is assumed that it is. See the problem?
      --
      I do think intelligence can be improved and also that IQ tests aren't a good way to assess intelligence. There are other tests that take into account other things important to intelligence like the ability to communicate with others (a high IQ isn't useful if one can't understand a problem to be solved) etc.

    75. Re:Meaningless by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      Are they all removed from their parents at birth and put into the same environment to face the same stimulus?

      Athletics are different. Your anatomy is tall, short, long-legged, prone to more fatty or more muscular development, and so forth. Every single person in the world can play baseball like Barry Bonds: we can all swing a bat and run; some of us will expend more or less energy to reach the same training state, or to perform more or less well. If you have a long stride (which is controlled by skeletal structure), you're going to run fast with less energy.

      Just as all humans have arms, legs, eyes, and the ability to physically coordinate themselves and develop strength, they all have the same brain anatomy. Do you honestly think you're using the most efficient mathematical computation algorithms your brain can deploy? Have you internalized the mechanical act of computation? Can you rapidly perform arithmetic calculations while playing word games?

      Do you really think normal people can't learn to do this?

      Your brain has to conceive a non-default action in the prefrontal cortex, then direct the midbrain by expending energy (ATP) and neurotransmitters (notably, acetylcholine) in the dorsolateral prefrontal cortex. The fatigue limit of the dlPFX is called "willpower" in scientific papers, and the reduction of load is called "motivation". Motivation is affected by interests, reframing, and so forth.

      So if you're *interested* in math, you need less energy to study it well, because passing mathematical theory in front of you triggers a distraction response: you respond to it like most people respond to food, sex, or video games. Same with music, art, biology, cooking, and so forth.

      You can otherwise decrease the energy required to study math, computers, or anything else by adjusting the brain's habitual impulses. Studying on a schedule works by making you impulsively study at a particular time--even if you hate the material, it feels like what you're supposed to do, and it takes effort to *not* do it. Setting a schedule is hard (you have to force yourself to do it for weeks before it sticks); repeatedly setting schedules as your requirements change causes your brain to rewire itself to change schedules more efficiently. This is why many highly-successful people have strong time management skills: developing those skills gives you the ability to more-readily develop other skills.

      You observe that things are easier for some people than others; that doesn't mean people aren't capable of learning and doing. Life isn't that simple.

    76. Re:Meaningless by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      That's a damaged human. You could also say all passenger cars have 4 wheels (true), and then point out that some idiot unbolted his wheels and put the car on blocks.

      People vary tremendously in their natural talents

      Talent is a myth. A child exposed to watercolor at a young age and then not discouraged will develop into an artist.

      I almost went that route, but my teachers flipped out on me in first grade when I was drawing multi-element scenes (background, multiple foreground actors, action) during class and told me to never draw. They instilled that academics are good and arts are bad, and I stopped. I'm now not artistically inclined at all; I keep trying to learn, but drawing is hard and I've never bothered with it enough to get anywhere near what my 6-year-old self could do with pencils or watercolor.

      While we're laying out anecdote: I also used to be an expert mathematician, in high school. I got good grades in math because I would look at the math people gave me and intuit further math, rather than reading ahead in the book; I solidly understood the material because I *invented* most of it independently instead of paying attention in class. The fact that I never did homework and never got anything wrong on my tests frustrated my second statistics teacher; the first was fired after our class argued with him enough (he was wrong--a lot). I also correctly intuited that three lines of the same magnitude are a single, specific triangle, and so used direct trigonometry to solve tension problems in physics rather than going through all the vector analysis bullshit; my physics teacher still doesn't know why that works, and won't teach that method because he's never seen it used anywhere else.

      I swore off math 12 years ago and I am now bad at math. Very bad at math. I'm trying to fix that; and I'm only slowly making progress. The good news is I'm also finding the triggers: I like theory. Computer science theory, mathematics theory, neurology theory... I put less effort into practical skills and more into having the answer for *everything*, hence why I can ramble on about compiler design, OS design, CPU architecture, programming design, and the like, and I'm a useless programmer despite knowing more about programming than *actual* *programmers*. I'm using that for some reframing; ultimately I want to get good at math and programming. (I'm rolling a lot of my project management knowledge into the study of programming as well; there's much overlap.)

      If you can find a reason I differ from general population, you can classify all of my behaviors and identify if there's a pattern with people who differ in the same way as I do. Funny enough, retarded kids in a certain class--the educable retarded--are known to be fixable in large part. We have a huge variation of special education programs in the United States. Some of them, unfortunately, just babysit your retarded child; a few are honestly dedicated to maximizing success, and they go well beyond giving special attention to each child, instead determining how to interact with the child well, and how to motivate them to self-improvement, and then fill in the gaps in their natural abilities. A lot of those kids come out *normal*; often they have to rely so much on structuring their thought processes and interactions that they come out appearing more intelligent than normal kids, simply because normal kids don't have the benefit of a well-trained, structured thought process.

      Of course we have the severely autistic, the kids we just can't reach; and we have kids whose brains never developed, and are missing entire neurological organs. If you're missing the hipocampus, you're not physically capable of using your memory effectively--new memories aren't directly accessible, and there's *some* evidence that long-term habits form while facts and events get kind of lost. If your language center grew in deformed, you're not going to learn to speak well unless your brain repurposes anoth

    77. Re:Meaningless by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Few people in the world can play baseball like Barry Bonds, or pitch like Nolan Ryan did. Otherwise, we'd have more people doing it. There's enough people who are baseball-crazy out there.

      You are very firmly maintaining a counter-intuitive claim. It's intuitively obvious that some people are better at other things than others. You say that everyone has the same brain anatomy, but that's about as true as saying that everyone has the same skeletal anatomy, so that doesn't support your claim. You instead cite this hypothetical "interest", which apparently is different in different people, despite having the same brain anatomy. It doesn't account for the fact that I can learn mathematical concepts easily, while other people spend far longer. Are you claiming they're that inattentive? Are you sure that my interest in math isn't caused by the fact that I'm really good at it?

      So, what support do you have for your claim? Different people have different anatomical details. Different people seem to be good at different things. Different people perform differently on standardized tests, no matter how much we try to make them tests of innate ability no matter than acquired knowledge or ability. I read a paper claiming that anyone can become a memorist (i.e., one with a really really good memory), and the experimenter concluded that anyone could, based on careful training of a group of subjects, precisely one of whom met the standards, and disregarding the ones that didn't. I haven't seen any reason to think as you do.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    78. Re:Meaningless by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      Few people in the world can play baseball like Barry Bonds

      I already demonstrated that every person with a functional body can play baseball like Barry Bonds. I also highlighted the physiological differences which support or hamper performance. Take any person with the same or better athletic advantages and don't give him the procedural training (even baseball has strategy and execution technique) and you will get someone not-as-good; take someone who is not physically capable of performing at or above the level of Barry Bonds and train him correctly and you still have a star baseball player--and a bunch of peanut-gallery idiots talking about how said star baseball player has some special, innate talent they could never have, even though he's not quit the next Babe Ruth or Cal Ripken. A team of such people would hold their own against a team of Barry Bondses, although they might not *win* (at least not consistently).

      You are very firmly maintaining a counter-intuitive claim.

      That the earth is not flat is counter-intuitive.

      It's intuitively obvious that some people are better at other things than others.

      We have words like "Expertise" and "Practice".

      You say that everyone has the same brain anatomy, but that's about as true as saying that everyone has the same skeletal anatomy, so that doesn't support your claim.

      Except it does. You aren't doomed to be a 1/1000th fraction of the athlete some super-stall basketball player is; maybe 998/1000, if you put some effort into becoming a well-trained basketball player. There have been professional sports teams built out of the cheap, lower-tier players, coached to operate as an effective team, trained to be the best players they can be, and competitive enough to win national series once in a while. Not quite as good as the purified, distilled structure of a rigorously-selected set of runners with 1.5cm longer legs, but serviceable as *almost* there.

      Let's put this back in perspective: You're claiming some people are just bad at maths, others are just good at maths, and no amount of studying nor application of technique will ever make a person bad at maths into a person able to grasp and operate mathematical concepts well above the average population. That's simply not true.

      So, what support do you have for your claim?

      The research of K. Anders Ericsson into the study of expertise; the general study on the subject of skill development in the field of cognitive science; the generally higher performance of students sent into high-performance private school programs and given private tutors.

      We could try your way: education is a farce, it can't be improved, and the best way to educate is to throw material at students. No study methods will ever improve retention or material grasp; people are either born programmers, chemists, or burger flippers. That would, of course, be ludicrous.

      You make a logical proposition that education isn't a technology and cannot be improved. You also make a proposition that humans have evolved (or been granted by God) to genetically be predisposed to things like computers, machines, and nuclear engineering. It's plain backwards.

      I read a paper claiming that anyone can become a memorist (i.e., one with a really really good memory), and the experimenter concluded that anyone could, based on careful training of a group of subjects, precisely one of whom met the standards, and disregarding the ones that didn't.

      I've read similar papers, except they've done this with tens of thousands of people, with arbitrary classrooms, with children, with adults, with different fields of study, and so forth. They've found that certain techniques do, in fact, produce results not just above what's expected, but above the field average or even the field maximum.

      As for the field of memory t

    79. Re:Meaningless by aliquis · · Score: 1

      it isn't a inherent personal quality. IQ tests are used for situations where it is assumed that it is. See the problem?

      Yes.

      But the problem isn't that the differences in capability is exist or that they can be measured and improved but that they obviously are used for the wrong purpose.

      People in Africa have lower IQ than people in the rest of the world in general.
      The black population of the US have lower IQ than the rest in general.

      However the black population in the US has gotten higher IQ.

      Sure that could be because of breeding with people of other genetics or it's them becoming richer and higher educated. Time will tell if they catch up to the rest of the population eventually or not.

      It would be interesting to know whatever they simply are incapable by biology or whatever it's just/mostly a result of trainable behavior and education.

    80. Re:Meaningless by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      First, you're misrepresenting my position. Nobody is born solving differential equations. It has to be learned. My claim is that different people have different aptitude and potential, and when given similar educations will learn at greater rates. Obviously, some methods of education are better than others, and the field is insufficiently studied. If we come up with better educational techniques, so much the better.

      Second, it may be intuitive that the Earth is flat to some people, but if you start casually observing things you notice things that imply otherwise. Lunar eclipses suggest that the Earth is round. There is such a thing as a horizon. I've sailed on Lake Superior, and have observed that I can't see the bottoms of sufficiently distant objects. If I assume that different people are inherently better at different things, I look around, and I see nothing to change my mind. If there are indeed decades of research, I should observe large groups of people suddenly becoming very high functioning. I should observe people exceeding the previous maxima in various fields in fairly large numbers. It's conceivable that I have failed to notice these things going on under my nose, but it seems unlikely.

      I make a very good living from being much better at software development than most people. Lots of people want to get into the field, and there's all sorts of schools to teach them. If some of them had the secret of turning out people as good as I am, they'd get popular, and other schools would copy them. Then I'd be laid off because I'm old and no better than someone just out of school, just more expensive, and I'd retire. This doesn't appear to be happening. I still hear about a shortage of really good software developers.

      From the assumptions that some people are better at some things and worse at others, and that education matters a great deal in helping people realize their potentials, I get a world like the one I see. From the assumption that it's all in the education, and we know how to teach anybody how to be very, very good at X, I get a world considerably different from the one I see. Where's the legions of superheroes?

      Joshua Foer, like any individual, proves nothing. If there was a class teaching the memory techniques he used, taking more or less random people in, and they all had incredibly good memories, I'd be impressed.

      In professional sports, teams start with unusually good players, and the question is how much unusually good. If you're referring to "Moneyball", that was the As coming up with a better technique to evaluate potential, not a better training method.

      I'll look up Ericsson, but it really seems to me that this would have massive real-world effects if it actually worked, and I'm not seeing them.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    81. Re:Meaningless by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      Joshua Foer, like any individual, proves nothing. If there was a class teaching the memory techniques he used, taking more or less random people in, and they all had incredibly good memories, I'd be impressed.

      Well there's a few studies, such as:

      All students (n = 78) were taught insulin and DM in a didactic fashion, consisting of two traditional lectures. Each lecture spanned 60 min.

      After the didactic lectures had been completed, 28 students were randomly selected and then taught insulin and DM through the MOL technique. Continued participation in the study was, in any case, entirely voluntary.

      The rest of the class (n = 50) studied the same topics (insulin and DM) and completed in-class worksheets. Students were allowed open textbook reference and were allowed to take the completed worksheets home. This was a self-directed learning session under instructor supervision. The entire class was, thus, studying the same topic during the same time, albeit in different ways.

      Med students, 28 using method of loci, 50 using self-directed study.

      We observed a highly significant increase (P < 0.003) in the number of correct responses on the questions when attempted by students who had been taught insulin and DM through didactic lectures and the MOL technique (mean: 9.31, SD: 1.12) compared with students who had been taught through didactic lectures and the self-directed learning session (mean: 8.10, SD: 1.85). Two participants of the MOL group did not appear for the quiz.

      So a random subset of medical students, having been *just* taught how to use the Method of Loci and given strict, directed mind palaces (sub-optimal: they're unfamiliar with the technique, it's a lot of cognitive load, and it's not self-directed), shifted itself up almost an entire standard deviation. That means more than 85% of the Mnemonics group *outperformed the mean* of the control group; the remaining 15% were *still* in the first deviation.

      Put another way: there was not some subset of MOL subjects who moved up; the entire smooth bell curve shifted to the right. The bell curve was also tighter: the standard deviation among students using mnemonics was 60% as wide as the standard deviation among the control group. That means the students clustered closer together. In a class where students ranged across 30 points (e.g. 60%-90%), these students would have ranged across 18 points (e.g. 78%-96%).

      A surprising amount of mnemonics study is done on the elderly (to combat age-related memory loss) and medical students (because the material is complex and filled with facts). The outcomes are always the same: a marked improvement in ability to remember things if those things are intentionally structured.

      but it really seems to me that this would have massive real-world effects if it actually worked, and I'm not seeing them.

      Why would it? You'd have to institutionalize and standardize education first, and then change that institutionalized behavior when new research came out. Each change is a risk, and requires some administrative oversight. On an individual level, all of these techniques are *skills* which require *effort*, just like any other skill, and the time spent learning is annoying and boring and exhausting. Why would these things be adopted? Why would they have an impact on the world just because some academics know about them?

      We already know the Japanese methods of basic mathematics education universally produce human calculators. We instead use friendly numbers and common core.

    82. Re:Meaningless by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      There are other tests that take into account other things important to intelligence like the ability to communicate with others (a high IQ isn't useful if one can't understand a problem to be solved) etc.

      And swimming. Because a high IQ isn't useful if you drown. Oh, and fencing. A high IQ isn't useful if someone kills you with a sword.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    83. Re:Meaningless by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      The original claim was that anyone can learn to do anything. Now, you say that people are doing very successfully on specific things given improved instruction techniques. Those aren't the same things.

      If there were ways to turn out people as good at software engineering as I am, without having unusual potential, somebody would apply those ways and get a reputation, then more students, and then copycats. We'd notice things like this. We wouldn't notice improvements in specific skills in the same way.

      I don't see any real need for human calculators. I can do complex calculations in my head, but I prefer to use my calculator app because I'm lazy and the app is less error-prone. The advantage I get from doing a very rough pre-calculation is that I can often find if I screwed up. This doesn't necessarily lead to anything more.

      Quite a few years ago, my son was interested in an advanced mathematics program at the local university for kids fifth-grade and up. The kids needed a teacher recommendation to get into the initial test. There were a large number of children taking the test, and the racial makeup was very heavily Oriental. The test was designed to measure ability rather than education, and as it turned out the racial makeup of the kids accepted to the program was a lot closer to the mix around here (many fewer blacks, unfortunately). My guess is that the Oriental kids had had a better math education, likely with high parental support, so they excelled in their classes disproportionately to their raw ability.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    84. Re:Meaningless by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      The original claim was that anyone can learn to do anything. Now, you say that people are doing very successfully on specific things given improved instruction techniques. Those aren't the same things.

      No, you don't get to do that. I said people can learn to have improved memory. I showed "specific things" like REMEMBERING THINGS THEY ARE STUDYING using mnemonics techniques. That's an application of a general thing.

      If there were ways to turn out people as good at software engineering as I am, without having unusual potential, somebody would apply those ways and get a reputation, then more students, and then copycats.

      If there were ways to make a car corner better than a Model T, somebody would notice, and apply those things. ... They did, by lowering the car's center of gravity, using better suspension platforms, and so forth.

      Again: The population at large may go on not noticing what's happening with a few hobbyists and specialists. People aren't magically granted the knowledge of the highest technology physical law allows.

      My guess is that the Oriental kids had had a better math education, likely with high parental support, so they excelled in their classes disproportionately to their raw ability.

      So I'm saying people can learn things better, you're saying no they can't, except when they do?

      I don't see any real need for human calculators.

      It's useful to be able to do math in your head; but my point was more that you can learn to do math in your head. That's a thing.

      Think about arithmetic. You can try to multiply 37 x 26. 30 * 26 = 30*20 + 30*6 = 600 + 180; 7 * 26 = 20*7 + 6*7 = etc etc etc. Lots of counting up numbers. You're counting on your fingers and trying to track numbers (6, 12, 18 ... 180). It's a mess.

      You could instead memorize 1x1 through 9x9, and you see 3x2=6, 3x6=18, 7x2=14, 7x6=42. That's still a mess unless you've trained yourself to handle numbers positionally, so you put down 6, 18, 14, and 42 as 6xx, 18x, 14x, and x42. Add them straight: 6+1+1 (8), 8+4+4 (16) [A:96], and 2 [A:962] and you get 962 as 37 x 26... which is correct.

      That's a bunch of chatter to talk about (most simple things are), so here's the point: I didn't do any finger counting or number transformations. 8 is in the set {8,2}, and 4 is greater than 2, so I know I've got 4-2 = 2, thus 12. Add another 4 for 16. I have that memorized, so it clicks instantly at a glance. The single-digit multiplication is all memorized, too, and I can stream each of the high-order sets and accumulate numbers to add left-to-right, propagating overflow leftward. That means I can glance at a couple big numbers like 1,173 * 246.7 and do the right thing as a mechanical reflex.

      That's not mathematical aptitude; it's a skill you learn. It takes effort and, as you observe, is boring and annoying. I'm 100% certain you could memorize your multiplication tables if you wanted, and also pretty sure you're not going to bother with 5 minutes a day scribbling them onto a paper as practice.

      If there were ways to turn out people as good at software engineering as I am, without having unusual potential

      You'd have to lower the energy required first, or reframe it. You're *interested* in software engineering; for most people, it's torturous and boring. Something goes wrong and people don't go, "Oh no! What did I do wrong?" They go, "Fuck, can't this stupid shit just go away? Programming is ballsacks for retard nerds who can't get laid!" and proceed to look at cat videos on Youtube before prodding at their code to try and make it pretend to work.

      I'm no good at software engineering. I've been picking it up, and am far enough along to see defects in *other* people's approach, but not to formulate a good approach. I went way back to beginning computer science and am g

    85. Re:Meaningless by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      All humans have the same facilities and are technically capable of the same intelligence. Education *is* intelligence.

      That's your first post in this thread. It looked to me like you;'re claiming more than that there are certain specific things that people can learn to do a whole lot better. My claim is that people have very different intellectual potentials. It's incompatible with the claim I quoted, but it's perfectly compatible with a claim that education can be improved (for the future of the species, I really hope it can be).

      I don't see that there's any real justification for claiming that I like software development and so I become good at it, as opposed to my claim that I've got unusual potential or aptitude or whatever for it, and so I like it. (Besides, I think we've all known people who like doing things and didn't become good at them.) You're taking an inherent ability and rephrasing it. If I inherently like software engineering more than most people, exactly what is the difference between that and me being unusually good at it?

      As far as the math program example, I was discussing children who studied hard and were found to have less potential than some children who studied a lot less hard. If education were intelligence, that wouldn't happen in significant numbers.

      You may well know more about learning techniques than I do, since I haven't done more than poke at the subject from time to time. Still, I'm perfectly capable of constructing logical arguments (which may be erroneous, but we all make mistakes), so I can argue with you (high inherent intelligence helps here, to alliterate), and I don't believe that a random idiot off the street can come anywhere near to matching me in my strong points. The heartbreaking thing, to me, is that there are potential genius kids who never get the education and therefore never realize their potential. People are being wasted out there.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    86. Re:Meaningless by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      It looked to me like you;'re claiming more than that there are certain specific things that people can learn to do a whole lot better.

      Those "specific things" are "learning", "analyzing", and "thinking critically".

      As far as the math program example, I was discussing children who studied hard and were found to have less potential than some children who studied a lot less hard.

      Some idiot neighbor spent 6 days trying to move concrete blocks into his yard, but they were heavy and hard to drag.

      I used a lever to elevate those blocks onto a trolly with wheels, and moved them very easily.

      The neighbor is a lot stronger than me and has greater potential for moving great big things, yet I can move great big things better than he can because I am some sort of special god.

      ... no, it's because I've used a different technique, just like brute-force attempts at math or string searching are slow and shitty.

      Put it another way: your computer might have a 3GHz processor, but it will still take 4 days to search a 600-page legal brief for a simple phrase. My 33MHz 486-SX can do it in 1/3 of a second, because I'm using a Knuth-Pratt-Morris string search and doing 1/3000th as many character comparisons.

      Still, I'm perfectly capable of constructing logical arguments (which may be erroneous, but we all make mistakes), so I can argue with you (high inherent intelligence helps here, to alliterate), and I don't believe that a random idiot off the street can come anywhere near to matching me in my strong points.

      When I was younger, I had the analytical capacity to believe everything Sean Hannity said. Logical propositions and analogous thinking weren't things for me; entertainment and distraction were what drove me. Video games. I did good at simple things like math, but less-good at complex things requiring the analysis of a lot of data and secondary effects. For example: I understood that raising minimum wage just results in all other wages going up (this is false), and that doubling the wages of a McDonalds cashier would make a hamburger cost $10 (also false).

      I've got an IQ of like 160, man. It's learned. I taught myself that shit. I am, inherently, the kind of person you have to carefully explain things to, and I determine those things are complex and stupid because they don't make sense. I REWROTE THAT PART.

      You think your construction of logical arguments is just something your brain does specially? I learned about the fallacy of whole-body analogy, and started finding the boundaries of comparisons, and became capable of thinking and understanding in ways I couldn't before. You think your reasoning ability is actually any good? Your reasoning ability is garbage; you're standing here reasoning that there's only one way to do something, and that any amount of applied effort is of the same quality as any other applied effort, and that someone can study by brute-force and not learn PROVES that other techniques of study don't exist, because otherwise we'd all magically know about them.

      You're arguing that all technology which can be invented has been invented, because man can't NOT know about technology.

    87. Re:Meaningless by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      You're not doing yourself any favors in argument by claiming to have taught yourself to excel in critical thinking while thoroughly misstating my position.

      My basic claim is that there are inherent differences in ability. These differences can be dwarfed by technology and education, but they exist. Your neighbor would move things better than you if he thought about using levers. I can go faster than a marathon runner, until you get him or her a car like mine. Technology does improve, and education improves, just much more slowly. There can be breakthroughs in how to teach and do things. There are very definitely different ways to do most things, and often some ways are definitely better than others.

      So far, you aren't refuting me. You point to people who used a better memorization technique and did much better than the previous experts. Fine. Teach two people that technique and they'll be much better at arbitrary memorization than someone not taught that, but the one with the better memory overall will still be better. (This isn't particularly related to learning, by the way. Unless you're learning something like historical dates, which are a very minor part of history, learning requires a LOT more than indelibly memorizing certain facts. Not that historical dates are completely useless; I had a friend a long time ago whose telephone numbers contained the date of the battle of Manzikert, so it helped me remember her number. Would you feel more educated if I told you that the date was 1071, or if I told you the strategic consequences of the Byzantine loss?)

      Rather than concede that I might be better at math than the average person, you make up a story about some people needing more energy, which isn't so much disagreeing with me as it is using different terminology to maintain the appearance that I'm wrong.

      You have consistently failed to address my big objection: that I haven't seen any major effects in society. For decades, people have been claiming that intelligence is a matter of education, and, according to you, succeeding in demonstrating that. If you could raise a person's IQ by 30 points or so with better education, you could teach people to be much more successful. Somebody would have set up a school using these techniques. (I was first taught geometry with a set of books on Skinnerian principles, as if understanding mathematics was a matter of operant conditioning, so people have been using modern psychological findings in education for a long time.) The graduates of that school would have been sufficiently successful that other schools would adopt the same methods. This wouldn't happen fast, but it wouldn't take many decades.

      This would have consequences in society, and we would have seen them. I haven't noticed them.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  2. High IQ People.. by jimtheowl · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ... are more likely to use open source software.

    1. Re:High IQ People.. by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      No. It was just too easy. Someone had to do it.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    2. Re:High IQ People.. by GameboyRMH · · Score: 2

      Came here to say this, it makes perfect sense. It's people who don't know what they're doing who have to pirate Office or Windows because they don't know that there are better options or have trouble learning to use different software.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    3. Re:High IQ People.. by jimtheowl · · Score: 3, Informative

      First, lets keep in mind that this is 'research' by a consortium with a vested interest. Second, that by using the words "shitty countries pirate software more than rich countries" you pretty much established that your horse has wandered away from any moral high grounds.

      I'm not saying that all people with high IQ will automatically use open source software, not even that the majority of people that have high IQs will use open source software. Just that it is more likely to happen if they have an high IQ.

    4. Re:High IQ People.. by GameboyRMH · · Score: 2

      Just being a couple hundred dollars less is better! And in the context of piracy, that's the most relevant factor.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    5. Re:High IQ People.. by avandesande · · Score: 1

      I would agree that the average IQ of open source users is higher than 'all others'. However the pool of 'all others' is much higher....you have it backwards.

      --
      love is just extroverted narcissism
    6. Re:High IQ People.. by war4peace · · Score: 1

      If you don't pair it with loss of productivity due to having to re-learn and adapt your existing stuff to the other solution... then you don't really have a point.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    7. Re:High IQ People.. by war4peace · · Score: 1

      You're a fucking moron.
      It's not about re-learning parts of the interface. It's about changing processes, document formats, communication methods, etc., etc.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
  3. High IQ = Less Piracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Gee, considering the source, this couldn't be clumsy propaganda, could it?

  4. high IQs hired high IQ lawyers by turkeydance · · Score: 1

    perhaps

  5. Quoting Nassim Taleb by iMadeGhostzilla · · Score: 5, Insightful

    One of the New Year's resolution he listed was, "Do not read the latest breakthrough experiment in psychology about, say, the effect of taking cold showers on grammatical ability. Better even read nothing about these 'experiments.'"

    1. Re:Quoting Nassim Taleb by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Reading the experiments is great for a laugh, just don't under any circumstances let yourself wonder if the flimsy correlation might be a reliable causative.

    2. Re:Quoting Nassim Taleb by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      Which would be perfect in this case. Has anyone looked at TFA? That graph ... It's a pretty amazing scatterplot. Sure there is a correlation in their with some sort of horrid regression factor but just glancing at it shows you that the correlation, if it even exists, is hopelessly weak.

      They are using crappy statistics to pull out some questionable correlation of crappy data from crappy studies.

      Nothing to see here, move along.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
  6. Ice cream causes rape rapes by NotDrWho · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Every summer ice cream sales go up. Every summer reported numbers of rapes go up.

    Therefore ice cream must cause rape.

    --
    SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
    1. Re:Ice cream causes rape rapes by brad3378 · · Score: 1

      I scream, you scream, we all scream for ice cream.

      --

  7. Didn't correlate with education? by Alok · · Score: 3, Interesting

    > the researchers carried out robustness tests with various variables including the strength of IP enforcement, political factors, and economic development.

    So they did take into account some factors like economic development, which makes this more interesting. However, why not analyze w.r.t. to the education levels of the area as well, since that would also affect the region's 'collective IQ' and probably indicate how many people are too poor to afford education, not to mention buying software. I searched the paper and 'education' as a search term only appeared twice, both times in references (so, its never mentioned in the actual text).

    The researchers probably didn't consider the prevailing views of property rights or agreement with international treaties either. In some countries, its just more culturally acceptable to share software which makes it easier to average people to do so without feeling guilty. Other countries might have low income groups that are forced to buy licenses because their leadership got some incentives for IP treaties and are eager to show their enforcement to attract more FDI. Also, often countries with limited software exposure don't even know about good alternatives so its basically, either pirate or buy what everyone else uses.

  8. Re:Just got accepted into MENSA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    congratulations on being diagnosed mediocre

  9. The BSA? Really? by SvnLyrBrto · · Score: 1

    'Cuz I trust a word that anyone from that organization says. Oh wait, not trust. The other thing.

    --
    Imagine all the people...
  10. Study commissioned by the BSA? by PCM2 · · Score: 1

    It doesn't surprise me that the Slashdot audience has forgotten who the Business Software Alliance is, but I'm a little shocked that TorrentFreak seems to have.

    --
    Breakfast served all day!
    1. Re:Study commissioned by the BSA? by Jonah+Hex · · Score: 1

      I'm shocked anyone has forgotten, or gives credence to anything they put out.

      BUSINESS SOFTWARE ALLIANCE (BSA) AUDITS: TOP TEN THINGS TO DO IF YOU RECEIVE A BSA LETTER
      Have You Received An Audit Letter From BSA - Business Software Alliance?

      Oddly enough people seem suspicious of the BSA and their audits, wonder why? ;)

    2. Re:Study commissioned by the BSA? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Hmm... or you could tell your auditor "You know, the process of making sure we're compliant costs more than the guy who takes care of you, your spouse and your kids. I think we agree that we are fully compliant, don't we?"

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  11. Re:Wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Top 7 by IQ:

    Hong Kong
    Singapore
    South Korea
    Japan
    North Korea
    China
    Taiwan

    <eyeroll>No piracy ever in those countries</eyeroll>

  12. Re:In other words by jedidiah · · Score: 1

    It's not income, it's disposable income. Even that is relative to software pricing. They could have very comfortable lives otherwise based on their local cost of living and still have problems paying what companies want for software.

    Plus there's the whole availability problem.

    Most simple scientific models are wildly innaccurate.

    --
    A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
  13. What about complex licenses where is it's easy to by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    What about complex licenses where is it's easy to be listed as piracy due to not using the right ones or not following all of the very complex rules.

  14. Another angle by Sax+Russell+5449D29A · · Score: 1

    I suspect high-IQ countries are just so good at piracy that they make it look like somebody else did it.

    --
    -SR
    1. Re:Another angle by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Or they are even intelligent enough to find free alternatives and have no use for torrented content.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  15. Simple Explanation by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    Most content comes from "developed" nations because such nations have more entertainment consumers and people who can afford devices to play/run content. Therefore such nations have a vested interest in reinforcing intellectual property (IP). Piracy thus "hurts" the less-developed nations less, and therefore there is less incentive to enforce IP laws there.

    Developed nations generally have higher average IQ's because they have better education systems and better average nutrition.

    These two factors are likely unrelated. Correlation is not necessarily causation.

  16. The problem with research by tgatliff · · Score: 1

    Research can say anything you want. For example... Lets say that those high "IQ" nations also most likely have the highest income levels. Meaning, another way to say this "research" shows that poorer nations pirate more software, which seems reasonable when you consider that these same people probably can't afford the software licenses and/or do not have companies that they work for that can actually buy the software. "Hackers" don't typically hack software because they are bad or low IQ people. They do it because most of the time they can't afford it otherwise.

  17. Actual country obscured by VPN? by PeeAitchPee · · Score: 1

    Wouldn't many pirates' actual country of origin be hidden by the VPN they are using? So their findings are skewed, and there's no way to tell by how much. But I'm guessing the folks who commissioned this "study" don't want to be showing that VPN is a viable pirate attack vector anyway.

  18. Re:IQ is a good measure of ... by tgatliff · · Score: 1

    The Book "IQ and the Wealth of Nations" I think says it best... Wealth and IQ is highly correlated. Meaning, if you are wealthy, you are much more likely not to pirate software.

  19. nothing racist at all by kaatochacha · · Score: 1

    About saying country A has a higher IQ than country B.

  20. Re:High IQ Countries are also LESS Socialist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Country #1 in the world in economic freedom? Hong Kong. Country #1 in the world in IQ? Hong Kong.
    Country #2 in the world in economic freedom? Singapore. Country #2 in the world in IQ? Singapore.

    South Korea enjoys a higher IQ than North Korea.

    Also compare the Han majority countries in order of economic freedom:
    Highest of 4: Hong Kong 107
    2nd of 4: Singapore 105
    3rd of 4: Taiwan 104
    4th of 4: China 101

  21. Does B.S.A. stand for [B]ull [S]hit [A]lliance? by burni2 · · Score: 1

    Seriously, this is just a taunting and a very bad one to say the least.

    Just read the 29 pages of this "study", I just flipped it through and laughed.

    If someone would have looked at the data supporting this conclusion, one would say that even a six year old that is taught how to "insert a trend line" into excel could come up with this conclusion.

    Ohh yeah, but there is a correlation matrix .. (*laughter*)

    Another conclusion that could be drawn (or painted) based on this data, is that people of colour are dumb, which is an outrages conclusion.

    However another conclusion that could also be drawn is that african countries where sufficient nutrition is not provided for the people leads to generally lower IQ scores, and less money leads to software piracy.

    You cannot live of eating a floppy disc but of eating mangnoc.

    Also the question is if a legal software trader is availiable, is not answered, this could explain the outlier South Africa, develloped infrastructure.

    And there is the "british civil law" factor .. as statistical sound as the "americanized hamburger restaurant factor".

    To give a picture:
    A somewhat correlation is no proof, and only sometimes a hint.

    Also all three authors are from business and management schools.

    Btw. if you need three authors for these 29 pages and the 2 hrs. minitab than this correlates business schools and voodoo magic.

  22. Re:Just got accepted into MENSA by burni2 · · Score: 2

    yeah, MENSA: Or the intellectual equivilant of comparing penis sizes and determining the value of a person based on these factors.

    Go to the meetings, you will see what I'm trying to say. Haven't seen so many dickheads in my life, and the women also had "dicks".

  23. Damn Pakleds... by midifarm · · Score: 1

    We find things. We are smart.

  24. BSA by Holi · · Score: 1

    Since when are we taking anything the BSA claims without a dump truck load of salt.

    --
    Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
  25. Troll much? by LeadSongDog · · Score: 1

    There's no other viable explanation for this "story".

    --
    Oh, I'm sorry sir, I thought you were referring to me, Mr. Wensleydale.
  26. Re:I bet low cavities rate relates too. by avandesande · · Score: 1

    Or number of teeth..... so people with more teeth more likely to buy software licenses.

    --
    love is just extroverted narcissism
  27. Re:Ehhh by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

    IQ tests are country specific [...] There is no such thing as a country with a higher IQ than another country.

    Really?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    https://jakubmarian.com/averag...

    https://www.quora.com/What-is-...

    https://fellowshipoftheminds.c...

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  28. Classic example of incompetent research by golodh · · Score: 1
    Go ahead, have a look at the underlying paper: https://torrentfreak.com/image...

    It's a classic example of methodological incompetence. Got your popcorn? Let's start the show.

    Their dependent variable is piracy rates (between 0 and 100) as published by the BSA. Not one word about measurement uncertainty in those data. Remember how the MPAA and the BSA used to estimate sales losses due to piracy? That's right: list_price x (penetration_fraction x population of PC's - license sold). I kid you not. And they calmly rely on piracy data from those sources.

    Then their explanatory variable: the so-called IQ measure. They cite the "seminal" work of Lyn,R. VanHaanen, T ()

    Unfortunately for the authors of the latest "correlation paper", the work of Lyn and VanHaanen is anything but uncontroversial. I quote from one of the Lyn and VanHaanenpapers:

    First, we believe that these estab- lish beyond reasonable doubt the validity of our national IQ. This was initially disputed by a number of critics. For in- stance, Ervik (2003, pp. 405â"6) asked âoeare people in rich countries smarter than those in poorer countries?â and con- cluded that âoethe authors fail to present convincing evidence and appear to jump to conclusions.â Nechyba (2004, p. 1178) wrote of the âoerelatively weak statistical evidence and dubious presumptions.â Barnett and Williams (2004, p.) rejected our national IQ as âoevirtually meaninglessâ; Volken (2003, p. 411) described them as âoehighly deficientâ; and Hunt and Sternberg (2006, pp. 133, 136) rejected them as âoetechnically inadequate⦠and meaninglessâ. The answer to these criticisms is that our national IQs are validated by their high correlations with scores in tests of mathematics, science and reading, as shown in Table 1, and also with the numerous other economic and social phenom- ena documented in subsequent tables. These high correla- tions would not be present if our national IQs were meaningless.

    1. Re:Classic example of incompetent research by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Fair points until you got to the end, with the criticism of the regression. A logistic regression is defined for a multinomial distribution, in other words an exhaustive set of discrete units. What you want is a percentage, which would imply you would need, at a minimum, 100 possible choices of outcomes, and sufficient sample to make the maximum likelihood based solution tractable. That is also ignoring the fact that a percentage still possesses a continuous support, just one that is bounded between 0 and 1: any value, including the two extrema, are valid realisations of the stochastic process underlying the decision to pirate software. The correct decision would have actually been a beta distribution (and thus a beta regression), which possesses the necessary support and thus allows for an adequate prediction, and thus solving for the ML estimates would demonstrate the within sample best predictive relationship.

      Now you bring up a couple of valuable points, however you should note that they do make use of robust regression, and they do include a number of control variables, and that when taken in combination, the predictive accuracy of the model was around 70%, for the adjusted method, which again is pretty good, and somewhat undermines your claims of model misspecification. That said, there are a number of other points which I would consider to be mistaken, and which call into question the adequacy of their conclusions. I would, however, recommend that you (and other commentators) avoid portraying the effort as simply a bivariate correlation, as that is wrong, and allows your other valid criticisms to be discounted by interested readers. Your point about the validity of both the IQ scores and even more so the piracy rates, is extremely important, and that should take priority.

      --
      signed, a psychometrician

  29. This is a joke. by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

    Just look at their graph. It's a big, uncorrelated smudge of dots - through which they have drawn a line and announced their conclusion. The data is worthless, the analysis is worthless.

    Take a look at the publications for the first author:https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=lzywJN4AAAAJ&hl=en

    Looks like a good part of his career consists of plotting various things against IQ in search of things that correlate. IQ is a dubious enough metric for intelligence already, and there's no possible way to determine a causal link from that sort of quest for interesting correlations.

  30. Classic example of incompetent research by golodh · · Score: 3, Informative
    Go ahead, have a look at the underlying paper: https://torrentfreak.com/image...

    It's a classic example of methodological incompetence. Got your popcorn? Let's start the show.

    Their dependent variable is piracy rates (between 0 and 100) as published by the BSA. Not one word about measurement uncertainty in those data. Remember how the MPAA and the BSA used to estimate sales losses due to piracy? That's right: list_price x (penetration_fraction x population of PC's - license sold). I kid you not. And they calmly rely on piracy data from those sources.

    Then their explanatory variable: the so-called IQ measure. They cite the "seminal" work of Lyn,R. VanHaanen, T ()

    Unfortunately for the authors of the latest "correlation paper", the work of Lyn and VanHaanen is anything but uncontroversial. I quote from one of the Lyn and VanHaanenpapers:

    First, we believe that these estab- lish beyond reasonable doubt the validity of our national IQ. This was initially disputed by a number of critics. For in- stance, Ervik (2003, pp. 405â"6) asked âoeare people in rich countries smarter than those in poorer countries?â and con- cluded that âoethe authors fail to present convincing evidence and appear to jump to conclusions.â Nechyba (2004, p. 1178) wrote of the âoerelatively weak statistical evidence and dubious presumptions.â Barnett and Williams (2004, p.) rejected our national IQ as âoevirtually meaninglessâ; Volken (2003, p. 411) described them as âoehighly deficientâ; and Hunt and Sternberg (2006, pp. 133, 136) rejected them as âoetechnically inadequate⦠and meaninglessâ. The answer to these criticisms is that our national IQs are validated by their high correlations with scores in tests of mathematics, science and reading, as shown in Table 1, and also with the numerous other economic and social phenom- ena documented in subsequent tables. These high correla- tions would not be present if our national IQs were meaningless.

    Gettit? The fact that there are high correlations "proves" the validity of their inference that there are meaningful relationships. Did they go to Trump University or what?

    In this vein I especially like the high correlation (see http://www.tylervigen.com/spur... ) between per-capita cheese consumption and people who died by becoming entangled in their bedsheets.

    I wonder if the authors thought to control for that.

    As far as serious research is concerned, this is the end of the line, but lets go on and have a look at their model, shall we?

    They model the value of a fraction through a straightforward regression model: SP_i = \alpha + \beta IQ_i + \lambda X_i + \epsilon_i

    Oops, and there we have the little matter of using straightforward regression to model a fraaaaction, instead of something like logistic regression. For those who don't immediately spot the problem, see e.g. here: http://www.theanalysisfactor.c...

    Ordinary linear models are simply unsuitable to model fractions. A point that's common knowledge with statisticians, but one that's apparently lost on the authors (and the authors on which they base their work).

    Right, lets continue and look at the graph they show with their regression line. Each country counts as one (China has the same weight as the e.g. Senegal and the US has the same weight as the Comores. Look ma, no weights! Sounds good eh? When you look at their graph, China shows up as one serious outlier with an "IQ" score of about 110 and a "piracy" score of about 80%. Only 1 bln people up there. Close by, in the bottom-right corner of their graph is the good ole US of A, weighing in at about 270 mln people, with almost the same score

  31. This study funded by the MPAA by jimbob6 · · Score: 2

    There is nothing even remotely scientific about this.
    Firstly the IQ test was originally developed by a French doctor in the late 1800's as a way of diagnosing mental retardation. It was never meant to be an intelligence test. It's a stupidity test.
    Secondly for an IQ test to have any meaning it has to be conducted in a way that is culturally relevant to the place your doing the testing. So comparing IQ from people of 2 different cultures doesn't tell you a whole lot because the people crafting the test are going to design it in such a way to produce the bell curve for a culture that you would expect from standard distribution.
    Thirdly this is just obvious bullshit on its face and can be torn apart with the most basic critical thinking. Like the fact that China is one of the biggest piracy hubs and there supposedly a high IQ country.
    Or the fact that its generally more intellectually challenging to pirate something that it is to just go to a store and buy it.
    I'd be willing to bet that this is a PR artifact funded by some lobby if the study even exists.
    You can file this right along side the study "Scientists find correlation between penis size and paying your taxes on time."

  32. Re:100 by ath1901 · · Score: 1

    That was precisely my thought. It is of course a bullshit article but it raises so many interesting questions:

    Where did they get country based IQ data? Is it normalised to 100 over the entire sample?

    Why do most countries in their scatterplot have an IQ less than 100? The only counterweight of significance is China.

    Who did they test? China has higher IQ than pretty much the entire western world. I very much doubt that since china is HUGE and mostly rural.

    What IQ test did they use? Note that five countries have scores of about 70 or below. Are they really suggesting about 90 million people in Nigeria (NGA) are mentally retarded? There's 180M people in Nigeria, half should be above 70 and half below, i.e. mental retardation (assuming normal distribution). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_disability

  33. Normal by denisbergeron · · Score: 2

    People with high IQ will use Linux and doesn't need piracy!

    --
    Ceci n'est pas une Signature !
  34. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  35. Re:100 by ath1901 · · Score: 1

    Had to read a bit more. It is based on the IQ data from this book. The "Reception and Impact" section was fun to read.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_and_the_Wealth_of_Nations

  36. Re:IQ is a good measure of ... by WorBlux · · Score: 1

    Additionally IQ and criminality is very inversely correlated. A nation with high IQ is likely more aware of the negative side of potential piracy and pushes back more strongly against it.

  37. Re:Ehhh by h33t+l4x0r · · Score: 1

    From that map it strikes me that it correlates strongly with *naval* piracy as well.

  38. Heh, smarter pirates don't get caught. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Or more likely they just find/write Free Software.

  39. Re: Wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    People with higher IQ's know very little is worth pirating to begin with.

    Even less worth paying exhorbant amounts of money for.

    People with higher IQ's tend to read a lot. They don't get their entertainment from Television.

  40. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

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  41. Re:Ehhh by bucket_brigade · · Score: 1

    Yes, really.

  42. Re:Ehhh by bucket_brigade · · Score: 1

    Also read your own wikipedia link.

  43. No fair! by Mats+Svensson · · Score: 1

    But maybe the other countries has street smarts, or a really high EQ?

  44. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 2

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  45. Re:Most software piracy by james_gnz · · Score: 1

    Most software piracy
    is for video games, I would think. That's the real issue here, idiots staring at screens while twiddling buttons and yelling at bright images have lower IQs...

    I don't know if you're serious or not, but I had a similar thought. I will watch movies or television programs if others are doing so, but seldom seek them out myself. This is partly because I can find some things irritating, which many other people apparently don't. e.g. I (vaguely) remember an exchange between my wife and myself after watching the movie Dragonheart. In the closing scene, the dragon dies and ascends to the sky as a star, to join a constellation that rearranges itself. If I remember right, she asked me if I found it moving, I said I found it implausible, she asked why, I said because the light from stars takes years to reach Earth, and she laughed. I assumed this was because it wasn't something she'd thought of, and therefore it didn't mar her suspension of disbelief or her enjoyment of the movie. (I was going to add that I didn't actually check, but she's just come past, read what I've written over my shoulder, and confirmed that.) To be fair, I guess this isn't really intelligence, but rather specific knowledge, or the inability to disregard it. Also, I've heard Stephen Hawking enjoys Star Trek, and I'm quite sure it's not because the writers are so clued up on physics that they don't make mistakes he would notice. Anyway, just my 2c.

  46. erm by sociocapitalist · · Score: 1

    IQ tests tend to be culturally biased, so it would be interesting to know if the same tests are being used in both 'high IQ' and 'low IQ' countries.

    If so, my guess would be that the IQ tests are (unintentionally) biased in favor of the culture of the 'high IQ' country or countries.

    If not, then there would probably be no point in comparing the test results as the tests themselves are different.

    Google 'IQ test cultural bias' for a bunch of links around this.

    --
    blindly antisocialist = antisocial
  47. Re:IQ is a good measure of ... by WorBlux · · Score: 1

    That being said, the same study puts the corruption perception index as a greater contributing factor.

  48. Consider the source by RespekMyAthorati · · Score: 1

    Anything that comes from the Business Software Alliance can be assumed to be shite.