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Leaked Docs Provide An Unprecedented Look At Income Of Uber Drivers (buzzfeed.com)
In 2013, Uber told the Wall Street Journal that a typical Uber driver takes in more than $100,000 in annual gross fares. The ride-hail platform, which has shared similar estimates many times since, says that the company's efforts toward its drivers is a pathway to a modest, more attainable American dream. Turns out, the it has been exaggerating. According to BuzzFeed News, which obtained leaked documents, drivers in some markets don't take home much more than service workers at major chains like Walmart when it comes to net pay. According to the publication, drivers in three major U.S. markets -- Denver, Detroit, and Houston -- earned less than an average of $13.25 an hour after expenses. From the report:Based on these calculations, it's possible to estimate that Uber drivers in late 2015 earned approximately $13.17 per hour after expenses in the Denver market (which includes all of Colorado), $10.75 per hour after expenses in the Houston area, and $8.77 per hour after expenses in the Detroit market, less than any earnings figure previously released by the company.
Of course the exaggerated. I've been watching companies do this my whole life, it seems par for the course.
The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away. Because of this, I would never work for a franchise outfit like Uber; instead I would file a 1099 and use my own SSN for the business number (sole proprietorship) and actually work for myself.
C|N>K
If you start out talking about "100k in Gross Fares" then reveal that number was wrong, you need to tell us what the actual GROSS FARE was. Switching to take hour earnings, after expenses is the mark of an incompetent statistician, and a poor journalist. At the very least.
For those of you that did not read the article, they claimed that expenses were 25-33%, so at 100k, that would be somewhere between 66 and 75k, assuming 60 hour week that would have been $22 an hour, far more than the current claims of $13.25 (which sound exaggerated to me.)
excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
great deal considering a lot of service workers pay for their car out of pocket. Same goes for a smartphone and the service which is another write off for uber drivers
Looks like they make less than they do driving a taxi full-time in Denver....
"The median annual Taxi Driver salary in Denver, CO is $33,803, as of May 31, 2016, with a range usually between $28,077-$41,255 not including bonus and benefit information"
http://www1.salary.com/CO/Denv...
At $13.17 an hour, 40 hours a week, 52 weeks a year, an Uber drive in Denver would pull in $27,394 at that rate, and that's WITHOUT benefits and bonuses.
There's a lot that I' assuming here, like a person working strictly full time as an Uber driver.....but if you were going to work strictly as a driver, you'd probably be better off driving a taxi.
If you post as Anonymous Coward, don't expect a reply.
I used to track all my DoorDash deliveries to a T. That gig earns $11.21 an hour in the Minneapolis/Saint Paul market on average. I'd be happy to share my data spreadsheet with anyone interested.
They won't buy you a car but they're eager to sell you one on dubious credit terms..
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
Did anyone really think that being an Uber driving was the new American Dream??
About a year ago, Uber was advertising heavily on Craigslist for drivers in my area. But if you did the math, based on the numbers they put in their ads, you would have to drive 70 hours a week to make the amount of money they claimed. I see now that the amount of money they are claiming you can make per week has been cut in half.
Ah, the return of the company store.
Really, given the facts on display and a history of the 19th century only a few clicks away, why exactly does Uber still have defenders?
"I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
or you share the car with another uber driver. i know a few and they make decent money. one of them is on vacation right now across the ocean. nice vacation too. another driver i know shares a honda accord with someone else so it's used almost 24 hour a day. he's got his own car but doesn't want to use it.
This completely invalidates the analysis. Colorado is huge and I'm sure there are several small cities way outside of Denver that skew the statistics.
I've used Uber in some small towns (like Idaho Falls, ID) where it was basically just one dude with his old Prius. He just sits at home and waits for Uber to ding and jumps in his car. How much money he's making "per hour" isn't really a relevant metric...
Driving people around is a marginally skilled luxury service that in theory a teenager with 1-3 years of personal driving experience could do. Heck, a 20 year old born and raised in an area can probably do it more competently than an older "more experienced" driver who hasn't lived in the area that long.
This is like the outrage that McDonalds workers, people who make $2 hamburgers, are the lowest men and women on the food industry totem poll in terms of wages. Forget automation; if your job is something that a 19 year old high school dropout who fits the stereotypes can do as competently as a "20 year veteran," you aren't going to make much money because the barrier to entry and value of experience is minimal.
It's like going back 100 years and complaining that "senior ditch digger" doesn't pay substantially more than "junior ditch digger."
The job market is exactly that - a market that sets wages.
Rare, highly sought skills command high salaries. Driving a car is not one of those skills.
No one should expect a person driving people around in a car to make $100k a year. That's crazy.
If people willingly want to work for Uber at those wages - what's the issue?
Really, given the facts on display and a history of the 19th century only a few clicks away, why exactly does Uber still have defenders?
Because the taxi racket has been enjoying its monopoly for too long. Where I am, we have some of the highest taxi prices in Canada while many the taxi drivers are near minimum wage (because the drivers rent the licenses from the people who could actually afford them). An Uber driver told me he makes more money on Uber than he did driving a cab, although I didn't ask if that factored in vehicle wear'n'tear.
Everyone I know had pretty much stopped taking cabs because they were so unreliable. You could end up waiting an hour longer than claimed, or the cab just wouldn't show. Uber has effectively brought taxis back into our lives as a viable option.
From everything I've heard, Uber takes advantage of its workers and uses some pretty shady tactics. I support government regulation to ensure drivers can make a decent wage. But they've disrupted a market that desperately needed disrupting and have noticeably improved my personal standard of living.
So given the choice between Uber and the previous status quo? Yeah, I'm an Uber Defender, if a cautious one.
Last post!
It says on the cover "Human Resources"
It's a cookbook.
A COOOOOKBOOOOK!!!!11!!!
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
Interesting what you did there, calling the $13.00 after expenses a "profit". What's left out in the expenses is the salary for the contractor. That $13.00 is their take home pay after the expenses of running their car. So, if you have zero living expenses and don't eat, then sure, call it profit. But since Uber drivers are humans, they actually need food and shelter. Some of us also think that all humans should have a decent standard of living and have a decent work/life balance, not just those of us that can make six figures surfing the web all day and occasionally banging out a few lines of code.
$13.00 take home pay equates to roughly $26k/year (using the standard 2000 hour work year that every software person I know uses to compute their "salary" based on their consulting rate). The poverty line in the US is roughly $23k.
tl;dr: the $13.00 is not profit, it's salary; $13/hr won't even let you save and the US deems that salary the bare minimum to just scrape by. Working more destroys the work/life balance.
-Chris
Detroit is almost all out lying suburbs. It is the city itself where the situation you describe has been going on for the most part.
BlameBillCosby.com
If I wasn't on a conference call I'd be laughing out loud at this...
Move to NY, especially the suburbs of NYC. Moderate risk drivers can pay that per MONTH for full coverage.
You can get rich if you own a politician, but you have to be rich to buy one in the first place.
Really, given the facts on display and a history of the 19th century only a few clicks away, why exactly does Uber still have defenders?
I think Uber are a bunch of cocks but I also think that Taxi medallion programs are bullshit. I'm happy to cheer for Uber's legal victories against them. If people mistake that for cheering for Uber, so be it.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
All business owners are humans that need to live. Profit is what you take home from your business, not what you save. The profits an Uber drive makes may be shitty, but that doesn't mean you get to re-define words.
Working more destroys the work/life balance.
You've never been poor, I see. Working 2 30-hour jobs is the normal way you get by. One 60-hour job is better, saves you 1 commute. One 60-hour job where you at least sort of control your hours is much better.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
How many "jobs" let you decide you don't feel like working this week with no consequences?
How many "jobs" let you decide on the spur of the moment that, because your plans fell through, you're going to work for an hour and make some extra cash?
Uber isn't a job. It's a way for people who have a stable income to pick up a little extra cash. Uber drivers deserve to be paid practically nothing. They are not taxi drivers, who commit to serve an area on a predictable and reliable schedule, and do not deserve to be compensated as though they were.
-1 Uncomfortable Truth
The majority of wear and tear on vehicles happens when their fluid and tire rotations/changes are neglected. Keep those things constant, realign the suspension every 3-6 months, and a car would last a long time as a taxi. The issue is companies see those costs as an issue up front, even though long term they would get 2-4 times the use out of it with minimal repairs.
How many "jobs" let you decide you don't feel like working this week with no consequences?
UPS is one
When I worked as a loader (in the local Teamsters union) I got 100% medical and dental benefits, got $15/hour and the official policy was that if you don't show up WITHOUT CALLING IN for 4 days in a row, that was grounds for termination (it was *grounds* for termination... but I rarely, if ever, saw anyone fired)
I personally saw, several times, people not call in and not show up for a week at a time. Then they would show up when they needed money.
Because of the benefits and short hours (no full time employment and anything over 4 hours in a single shift is overtime, which was almost never authorized) there were a lot of people who had their own businesses during the day and just use UPS for the benefits.
I was going to school at the time and UPS also kicked in a few thousand per semester for that.... I always recommend UPS to people... it amazes me how many people turn their nose up at it.
My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
Uber has zero regulation burden while cabs have a lot of regulation they must comply with. Regulation compliance costs money which is why there is a lower margin for cab drivers.
Not in the slightest. People own the car anyway. They have a few hours in which they would like to make some money - and now, through Uber, they can. They can sit in their car watching a movie or reading a book until a car comes and then make some money. No work. No fuss. Until there is a fare. Then you go, make some money and then go back to your book or movie.
Some people might actually like having a part-time job that they go to WHEN THEY FEEL LIKE IT.
It has its advantages. If you don't like it - don't do it. If you use the service and feel that way then tip better.
If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
In any country where Uber drivers are making $13 an hour they already have a very decent standard of living. Compare an Uber driver in the USA or Europe to anyone from Africa, the Middle East, India, or most of China.
No wonder the rest of the world considers first-worlders such pricks. We complain about living in the lap of luxury. We have air conditioning, big screen TVs, internet, no warlords raping and killing us by the thousands, and so much food that over half of us are obese and dying from it! Yet folks like you complain about earning more than minimum wage?!
Even the poorest in the first world is like a king. But most importantly of all: even if you're poor now nothing prevents you from rising above it thanks to the relative freedom and opportunity we enjoy in the first world. Yes, it absolutely isn't a cake walk to raise oneself out of poverty, but then again all it takes is hard work and not making stupid decisions in the first world. No wonder the third world is stampeding our borders.
According to TFA, they accounted for a $16,000 car lasting 250,000 miles, plus $3,000 / year in maintenance, and getting 25 mpg on gas that costs only $1.75/gal.
I don't see the problem. $13/hour is much better than what many, many other people earn at other jobs.
The problem isn't that $13/hr is inhumanely low. The problem is that Uber's recruiting material says its drivers make $20-30/hour, net, after expenses and taxes, but their drivers actually make $9-13.
In any case, that figure is ludicrous.
So is 25 mpg, isn't it? Here in Europe, that would be 9.5 liters/100 km. Here, you'd throw that car away and buy a new one to save almost $20k over the life time of that vehicle.
Ezekiel 23:20
Detroit is actually a nice place, in the suburbs. It's the city itself that's a disaster.
I'm not going to argue that $13/hr is in any way good money objectively, for all the reasons you've already laid out, but the median personal income for the US is in fact just about $26k/year.
Which just means that almost everybody is pretty squarely fucked, but literally half of Americans are even more fucked than someone making $13/hr full time.
-Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of all Trades
"I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
Lets go back to the no regulation time where the following occurred;
1. No inspections to ensure safe vehicles.
2. No licenses to pull in case of violations.
3. No accessible vehicles for the disabled.
4. No employment standards so exhausted drivers are on the road.
5. Rampant discrimination so certain groups can not get a cab.
6. Low insurance so accident victims are not compensated fully.
etc.
Do you have to wait an hour every time you call a cab? Doubt it. Do you have to wait an hour on the few high usage nights like Halloween and New Years? Probably. No business can carry the number of cabs all year to deal with those two nights and that is not an excuse for killing the business the rest of the year.
Regulations built up through the years to deal with bad actors. They exist for a reason.