.NET Core 1.0 Released, Now Officially Supported By Red Hat (arstechnica.com)

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.NET Core 1.0 Released, Now Officially Supported By Red Hat (arstechnica.com)

Posted by msmash on Monday June 27, 2016 @05:20AM from the growing-interest dept.

Microsoft on Monday announced the release of .NET Core, the open source .NET runtime platform. Finally! (It was first announced in 2014). The company also released ASP.NET Core 1.0, the open-source version of Microsoft's Web development stack. ArsTechnica reports:Microsoft picked an unusual venue to announce the release: the Red Hat Summit. One of the purposes of .NET Core was to make Linux and OS X into first-class supported platforms, with .NET developers able to reach Windows, OS X, Linux, and (with Xamarin) iOS and Android, too. At the summit today, Red Hat announced that this release would be actively supported by the company on Red Hat Enterprise Linux.

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First? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-06-27 05:27 · Score: 0

A useful product from microsoft for non-windows! yeah!
1. Re: First? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-06-27 05:30 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  They want to integrate it into systemd, then the journey to the dark scheide will be COMPLEEATEE!!! Good, good, I can feel your anger.
2. Re: First? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-06-27 05:48 · Score: 1
  
  Office for Mac has been around for ages and it is really good. Skype runs on numerous non-Windows platforms, too. What I'm curious about is what this means for Rust. Now we have C#, Go and Swift running on all of the major platforms. Does that leave any room for a language like Rust? I'm beginning to think that it doesn't.
3. Re: First? by UnknownSoldier · 2016-06-27 06:03 · Score: 0, Troll
  
  > Office for Mac has been around for ages and it is really good.
  That's because it includes both the menu bar + ribbon bar. The _user_ is given a _choice_ in how they wish to use the UI. One of the few things Microshit has done correctly.
  --
  Microsoft (R) Windows (R), noun 8: A 64-bit compilation of 32 bit extensions and a graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit operating system originally coded for a 4 bit microprocessor written by a 2 bit company that can't stand 1 bit of competition with 0 bit of understanding good UI.
4. Re: First? by Barlo_Mung_42 · 2016-06-27 06:15 · Score: 1
  
  "Now we have C#, Go and Swift running on all of the major platforms."
  I've read that there are ways to use Swift on Windows but it doesn't seem like a first class citizen.
5. Re: First? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-06-27 07:45 · Score: 0
  
  to the dark what?
  pussy?
  sheath? ...?
6. Re: First? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-06-27 10:16 · Score: 0
  
  > Office for Mac has been around for ages and it is really good.
  That's because it includes both the menu bar + ribbon bar. The _user_ is given a _choice_ in how they wish to use the UI. One of the few things Microshit has done correctly.
  Office for Mac pales in comparison to the Windows version. It uses a completely different code base and is the same in name and the basic concept only. Office for Mac is like "Paintshop Pro", while the Windows version is like "Photoshop".
7. Re: First? by TheRaven64 · 2016-06-28 00:12 · Score: 1
  
  Office for Mac has been around for ages and it is really good.
  No it isn't. For a trivial example, on every Mac application command-z is undo, command-shift-z is redo. Except Office, which uses command-Y for redo. Office is the only Mac application where the format dialogs are modal and need you to hit 'ok' before they apply the style. It violates the Mac HIGs in so many ways that it's painful to use (though SmartArt in PowerPoint is worth the pain).
  
  --
  I am TheRaven on Soylent News
Well if you want non-Windows to be second class by Anonymous Coward · 2016-06-27 05:34 · Score: 0

Behold unfixed data loss bug on all platforms but Windows: https://github.com/dotnet/corefx/issues/8895
Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · 2016-06-27 05:35 · Score: 0

.NET Core in Red Hat?!
MS' evil knows no bounds. Pretty seen they'll be actually supporting Linux in their products!
It's obvious as to what we need to do: convert everything MAC OSX! Apple has been our savior - all praise Saint Jobs ...alleluia.... Praise the Greatest Christian (A Jew) Jesus.
Now - my children in Jobs and Jesus - why aren't you working?
Why aren't you working on your MAC OS programs!
Praise Je..Jobs!
AYYYYYYY-MEN! And that goes for our others A!-Men! Right? Just hey-men!
Praise Jobs.
Now MS may 'mess us' (cue laughter), but we are hee-arr too turn ...
I'm still working on my Linux/Apple religion because obviously, the followers are there.
1. Re:Microsoft by laie_techie · 2016-06-27 06:19 · Score: 0
  
  Praise the Greatest Christian (A Jew) Jesus.
  Was Jesus a Christian? Did Jesus intend for his teachings to turn into a new religion instead of reforming Judaism? BTW, Jew could refer to a descendant of Judah (the son of Jacob / Israel) or someone who adheres to Judaism; thus it is not a contradiction that a Jew would be a Christian.
2. Re:Microsoft by micahraleigh · 2016-06-28 05:03 · Score: 1
  
  Jesus wasn't primarily working to change an organization. He was working to save individuals, some of whom were Judaists.
  
  And he still does to this day.
Telemetry for the masses, not for the classes! by Anonymous Coward · 2016-06-27 05:40 · Score: 1

https://github.com/dotnet/cli/pull/2145
'nuff said...
1. Re: Telemetry for the masses, not for the classes! by Ilgaz · 2016-06-27 10:54 · Score: 1
  
  It is like the new CEO tries to change things in Microsoft and Steve Ballmer hacks into the code with his leftover admin account in last minute to add things like telemetry.
2. Re: Telemetry for the masses, not for the classes! by hairyfeet · 2016-06-27 11:24 · Score: 1
  
  Sigh...its REALLY simple guys...Shitty CEO #1 (Ballmernator) shat all over the company trying to poorly ape Apple, shitty CEO #2 (Nutella) is shitting all over the company trying to poorly ape Google.
  Maybe if we Windows users are lucky after Nutella gets his walking papers we'll get a CEO that actually listens to the fucking customers and gives us a decent OS to replace Win 7, either that or Google and Apple will end up drinking their milkshake before the 2020 cutoff date.
  But from looking at the OS and every scrap of data I can about it its pretty obvious that you cannot kill the spying in Win 10, certainly not in Home/Pro which the majority will have, its just too baked in.
  
  --
  ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
3. Re:Telemetry for the masses, not for the classes! by bondsbw · 2016-06-28 03:00 · Score: 2
  Discussion thread about this: https://github.com/dotnet/cli/...
  Blog post detailing the why, how, and what: https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.c...
  
  The telemetry is only in the tools and does not affect your app.
  
  The data collected is anonymous in nature and will be published in an aggregated form
  
  You can opt-out of the telemetry feature by setting an environment variable DOTNET_CLI_TELEMETRY_OPTOUT (e.g. export on OS X/Linux, set on Windows) to true (e.g. “true”, 1). Doing this will stop the collection process from running.
  
  The feature collects the following pieces of data:
  The command being used (e.g. “build”, “restore”)
  The ExitCode of the command
  For test projects, the test runner being used
  The timestamp of invocation
  The framework used
  Whether runtime IDs are present in the “runtimes” node
  The CLI version being used
  --
  All my liberal friends think I'm a conservative, all my conservative friends think I'm a liberal.
Minecraft implications? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-06-27 05:41 · Score: 0

Prepare for Minecraft version 2.0 in .Net, to force modders out of Java into the MS Visual Studio stack, and to unify the XBone and Win10 platforms. Goodbye Java 4GB memory limits and shitty garbage collection routines.
1. Re: Minecraft implications? by Ilgaz · 2016-06-27 10:45 · Score: 1
  
  How come Java have anything to do with 4GB memory limit while it runs on monster mainframes? Do they use 32bit Java? It must be on purpose than.
new MS? nothings changed. by nimbius · 2016-06-27 05:45 · Score: 1, Insightful

Does anyone outside of a fortune 10 still write .NET?

Microsoft is coming to the party about a decade late here. First they wanted to be the next Apple, and when that didnt pan out and they couldnt release competitor hardware that wasnt 4 years late, they started rolling out open source, BSD, and a linux cloud offering in the hopes to one day become IBM...or some subset thereof. They see the writing on the wall.

People dont run Azure unless theres some reason you need Microsoft in the cloud, and even then its a hard sell when proposing alternatives with a 15 year track record like hosted exchange. Windows 10 isnt being run by corporations, its being jackbooted into the home with non-negotiable upgrades to desktop systems. most developers are already very happy with linux/OSS offerings like containers and engine yard. If we wanted portability, the gold standard is the java in everyones smartphone. if we wanted scaleability there are plenty of other opportunities with C or erlang that run circles around .net. People arent running things in azure because its a cloud platform, theyre doing it because Azure is tied into their corporate service and license contracts as an inextricable component of some arcane 80's power lunch style discount. And developers arent writing software in windows because its their preference or its more reliable.

--
Good people go to bed earlier.
1. Re:new MS? nothings changed. by RightSaidFred99 · 2016-06-27 05:48 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  It always amuses me how out of touch people on Slashdot are. Go look at a job site for .NET jobs, or web developer jobs and then come back and blather about "who still uses .NET LOL!". It's really kind of embarrassing for you to know so little about the real world.
2. Re:new MS? nothings changed. by Anonymous Coward · 2016-06-27 05:58 · Score: 0
  
  I won't claim there are no .NET jobs in the world, but I've been in the industry since before Microsoft existed, I've worked for well over a dozen companies from startups to 100K+ employee tech firms, and I have never - not even once - encountered a ".NET job", or an employer wanting me to know .NET, or anything written in .NET, or any reason to pay it the slightest attention.
  There may have been some people jumping on that boat years ago, but now that boat is sinking, and nobody wants to chain themselves to a sinking boat.
3. Re:new MS? nothings changed. by Anonymous Coward · 2016-06-27 06:07 · Score: 0
  
  lol. yes. are you being serious?
4. Re:new MS? nothings changed. by PmanAce · 2016-06-27 06:07 · Score: 1, Informative
  
  What tech firms have over 100k+ employees that you worked for from startup? Google doesn't have those numbers, Apple either for example.
  
  --
  Tired of my customary (Score:1)
5. Re:new MS? nothings changed. by halivar · 2016-06-27 06:14 · Score: 1
  
  He's making shit up. Also, if he was in the industry before Microsoft existed, then he's getting on near retirement age, and has checked out of industry innovation, anyway.
6. Re:new MS? nothings changed. by Barlo_Mung_42 · 2016-06-27 06:20 · Score: 1
  
  The most popular game engine uses .Net so it's likely that most of the games on iOS and Android already use it. It's fun to read some of the /. reaction to this but they are doing some really cool things.
7. Re:new MS? nothings changed. by dunkelfalke · 2016-06-27 06:25 · Score: 1
  
  I work for a smallish (less than 40 employees, two thirds of them developers) company, but not a startup - the company has been around for over 20 years. Most of the colleagues target .NET nowadays, I am the only full time C guy left, and during the past 12 months I've spent more time on the phone or with a soldering iron than with GCC.
  
  --
  "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
8. Re:new MS? nothings changed. by Anonymous Coward · 2016-06-27 06:46 · Score: 0
  
  He never said it was the same company. He said "... well over a dozen companies", which included both startups and 100K+ companies.
9. Re:new MS? nothings changed. by Anonymous Coward · 2016-06-27 06:56 · Score: 0
  
  If you are building straight forward CRUD apps I think .NET is great. (both web and desktop)
  The second you go beyond those cookie cutter applications I think .NET falls off. If you look at most big data, machine learning and ai libraries being created you will quickly notice almost none of the work is done in .NET. Sometimes there are .NET bindings but often they lack features and are the last to be updated.
  I like C#/F#. I think VS is fantastic. That said I have hit too many walls trying to create truly platform agnostic applications using .NET or trying to explore the latest frameworks and libraries.
10. Re:new MS? nothings changed. by Anonymous Coward · 2016-06-27 07:00 · Score: 0
  
  It's not that hard to have worked for both startups and 100K+ as different companies. HP is over 300K+. IBM was pretty huge too, probably still is. EDS was well over 100K before they got swallowed up by HP. There are aerospace companies over that size, and automotive companies that use heavy amounts of computer tech. There are others; those are just some examples.
11. Re:new MS? nothings changed. by Anonymous Coward · 2016-06-27 07:25 · Score: 0
  
  Having spent the last year programming in C# (previously Java/Spring), C# is a nicer Java. There are some really nice language features in there. The sucky part was that it would only run on Microsoft platforms. So, this addresses some of that suck and hopefully lights a fire under Oracle to improve Java.
  I'll be happy if this means I no longer need a Windows VM on my macOS in order to do .NET development.
12. Re:new MS? nothings changed. by Gr8Apes · 2016-06-27 07:32 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  What tech firms have over 100k+ employees that you worked for from startup?
  
  Reading comprehension 101:
  
  I've worked for well over a dozen companies from startups to 100K+ employee tech firms
  Restatement: They have worked for 12+ companies ranging from startups to 100K+ employee tech firms.
  I have as well, multiple startups, several small to mid sized firms, and several 100K firms, although not solely focused on tech in my case. I can state that several .NET firms switched to Java. I have yet to see one switch to .NET, although I did see one firm with .NET employees trying to code in Java that didn't go as well as it might have, but they persevered, although they did have some employee turnover. And I have coded in both .NET and Java. Java is way easier to get a job in.
  
  --
  The cesspool just got a check and balance.
13. Re:new MS? nothings changed. by Anonymous Coward · 2016-06-27 07:46 · Score: 0
  
  This is the most asinine thing I've ever heard. All the contracts I've worked for over the last decade use .NET as their development platform. This includes HP, EDS, IBM, and Microsoft. The challenge has always been bringing Linux servers into a Microsoft shop and .NET Core aims to settle this roadblock. If it pans out, it could open the door for even wider .NET adoption.
14. Re:new MS? nothings changed. by Anonymous Coward · 2016-06-27 07:58 · Score: 1
  
  You are correct, there aren't a lot of companies running COBOL that have the .NET developers within ear shot of each other.
15. Re:new MS? nothings changed. by s122604 · 2016-06-27 08:21 · Score: 1
  
  Then you haven't looked too hard, because their are .net opportunities in every city with significant tech employment (and even in some that don't), small, medium, and large companies .
  I haven't been in the .net world in almost a decade, been working in java with the occasional foray into scala and groovy but I'm thinking about trying to bone up outside of work, just to keep my options open..
16. Re:new MS? nothings changed. by mark-t · 2016-06-27 08:52 · Score: 1
  
  Of course, because "old people" can't possibly comprehend anything new or innovative.
  I'm not sure what's worse... that you might have made a remark like that to troll, or if you actually sincerely feel that way.
  
  --
  File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
17. Re:new MS? nothings changed. by Anonymous Coward · 2016-06-27 09:15 · Score: 0
  
  > Go look at a job site for .NET jobs
  You are claiming that there are lots of people writing for .NET by pointing out that there are lots of empty seats where no one is programming at all.
18. Re:new MS? nothings changed. by RightSaidFred99 · 2016-06-27 09:32 · Score: 1
  
  Yes. Yes I am. Was there a question there?
19. Re:new MS? nothings changed. by Anonymous Coward · 2016-06-27 09:50 · Score: 0
  
  > Go look at a job site for .NET jobs, or web developer jobs and then come back and blather about "who still uses .NET LOL!".
  http://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/sfc/sof
  Statistically, noone outside of a Fortune 10 uses .NET. The local want ads prove it. .NET isn't *quite* as niche as -say- COBOL, but it's an insignificant fraction of the work in places that aren't backwaters, or don't have legacy Windows deployments.
  The only time I've been asked to do anything in .NET, I inherited a trainwreck of a project started by and maintained by a bunch of former helpdesk monkeys who thought that putting all of their spaghetti code in a single 500kLOC file (not including the thousands of lines of timestamped commented-out code blocks that served as their VCS (despite the fact that they had the TFS deployment that they asked for *right there on site, ready to accept commits*)) was a reasonable way to organise things. Did I work on it, clean it up, and make it work? Yes. I'm a fucking professional. But the thing is, unless you're already locked in to Windows, there's no compelling reason to use .NET.
20. Re:new MS? nothings changed. by Anonymous Coward · 2016-06-27 09:52 · Score: 0
  
  There's a lot of extension and integration work in the engineering and design world where C#/.NET is a very good fit. In part this is simply because the CAD and engineering system vendors often provide a .NET API, and sometimes that is the only common interface in common between the different commercial components being integrated.
21. Re:new MS? nothings changed. by Anonymous Coward · 2016-06-27 10:16 · Score: 0
  
  I don't know many tech startups or companies with 100k employees which let you hit the crack pipe that hard, though.
22. Re:new MS? nothings changed. by Eravnrekaree · 2016-06-27 10:29 · Score: 1
  
  Companies that use .NET are not smart but we have a lot of dumb companies. Would be better to use an open source toolkit rather than to make oneself hostage of MS, but these kinds of decisions are made by execs rather than techies too often. Unfortunately NET is everywhere, doesnt mean its good to use it.
23. Re:new MS? nothings changed. by Eravnrekaree · 2016-06-27 10:31 · Score: 1
  
  It may because the decision in big corps involving more beauracracy rather than the tech people down in the trenche, who would prefer python or something
24. Re:new MS? nothings changed. by Anonymous Coward · 2016-06-27 11:30 · Score: 1
  
  If you're a glutton for punishment. Java isn't that bad, but it's inferior in just about every way _other_ than cross platform interoperability to .NET/C#. The tooling, the framework, the platform, the community but _especially_ the language itself.
  Productivity, reliability, scalability - none of these are valid reasons to go from .NET to Java.
25. Re:new MS? nothings changed. by RightSaidFred99 · 2016-06-27 11:38 · Score: 1
  
  Sure.. sure. All the bestest companies advertise on Craigslist. Oh, and it's 2012 and startups in San Francisco are totally the hottest thing. Yo, you get any of that hot startup stock bro??
  Like I said, out of touch. No skin off my sack, I can slum and develop in Python or Java, but this delusion you people have about "nobody uses .NET!" cracks me up.
26. Re:new MS? nothings changed. by RightSaidFred99 · 2016-06-27 11:45 · Score: 1
  
  You haven't a clue and clearly aren't qualified to speak on it. Lots of "techies" use and love .NET. Python is fine, even pretty good these days and if you need to run on Linux it's great. I mean I don't get the asinine stupidity that is the Python 2/Python 3 divide, but whatever. I guess someone smoked some crack and came up with that idea.. PyCharm is pretty nice, etc...
  Java is...meh. OK, but from a developer's perspective it's inferior in just about every way to .NET (comparing C# and Java). Other than paranoiac fears about "lock in", or cost, or a few other specific reasons you can't argue much in its favor. Don't get me wrong, a few of those are some real "other than" clauses, but don't apply to me so far at least.
  But for the shit I work on, IIS+C#/.NET/WebAPI+SQL Server are incredibly powerful, easy to develop in and deploy, and easy to support. It's a no brainer.
27. Re:new MS? nothings changed. by Tesen · 2016-06-27 12:54 · Score: 1
  
  Not 100% true; I've worked at several firms where we were converting our old COBOL systems in to a .NET/Windows platform, we were in earshot. Good thing is, most of those COBOL developers were either at retirement age or close to with a good incentive to hang around and help us .NET guys understand the legacy systems. Most of it was business/tech merged knowledge, obviously the architecture is different.
  Microsoft is hoping to bridge the gap between platforms; at the end of the day, if you have a cross-platform language like .NET Core available and it is a) well supported, b) has a good community around it, c) is easy to develop in, why would you not use it?
  To put another-way: Microsoft is wanting .NET Core to be what Java is except with their framework/languages. So...
28. Re:new MS? nothings changed. by Anonymous Coward · 2016-06-27 18:37 · Score: 0
  
  Windows 10 isnt being run by corporations, its being jackbooted into the home with non-negotiable upgrades to desktop systems.
  Windows 10 had 10 times the desktop usage that Linux has had long before the mandatory upgrades started to happen, in fact desktop Linux's usage share has been way worse than even Microsoft's most monumental operating system failures.
  
  If we wanted portability, the gold standard is the java in everyones smartphone.
  oh yes, the WORA lie. You going to run Java on all those iOS devices are you? Or that Google-Java that is incompatible with Oracle Java and uses a platform dependent closed binary Google Play Services blob? Java is a complete fragmented mess.
  
  And developers arent writing software in windows because its their preference or its more reliable.
  They're doing it because despite the monumental crapness of the windows platform the linux platform is worse. There are a lot of Linux apologists here and no doubt they will be out in force but the fact is that despite it being free, despit major big box vendors trying to sell computers with it online and in stores, despite it bing a one-click install or even a zero-install preview consumers do not want it. But the linux evangelists always have more excuses for it and more predictions of the "year of the linux desktop". The fact is until a corporation comes in and takes control of the desktop (like Google did wiht Android) linux will remain a steaming pile that nobody will use. It is hugely popular and brilliant on servers and on mobile thanks to RedHat and Google respectively but the desktop has been left to the pretty incompetent "community" and the desktop itself (including Windows) will die off before desktop Linux gains more than low single digit popularity.
29. Re:new MS? nothings changed. by Gr8Apes · 2016-06-28 00:09 · Score: 1
  
  I think you confused your pros and cons there. The reason the folks switched from .NET were precisely productivity, reliability, scalability, and we can add ongoing maintenance costs. It's not about just getting out the door but costs over time.
  
  --
  The cesspool just got a check and balance.
30. Re:new MS? nothings changed. by halivar · 2016-06-28 00:27 · Score: 1
  
  Context. He isn't just "old people," he's making a comment about how a pervasive new technology is nowhere on his radar, and is therefore worthless. And yes, such a grognard cannot comprehend anything new or innovative. The smartest devs I know are 20+ years older than I am. This guy is not one of them.
31. Re:new MS? nothings changed. by PmanAce · 2016-06-28 05:41 · Score: 1
  
  Yup sorry, my bad on that reading comprehension.
  
  --
  Tired of my customary (Score:1)
32. Re:new MS? nothings changed. by terjeber · 2016-06-28 10:54 · Score: 1
  
  The reason the folks switched from .NET were precisely productivity, reliability, scalability, and we can add ongoing maintenance costs
  This is pure nonsense. I did Java for the Enterprise from 1997 through 2006. I worked for one of the first companies in the world that had significant product for the Telecom world written in Java. Back then we could not inform our customers it was Java since Java was perceived as too slow for our market segment. A colleague of mine wrote an SNMP stack at the time that was at least two orders of magnitude faster than any other stack out there. I struggled with CORBA when the Iona C++ ORB would not talk to the Iona Java ORB.
  Since 2008 I've been doing about 20% Java, 60% C#/.Net and the rest a combination of Ruby, C and some Scala. C# blows Java out of the water in every single way. Tooling is heads and shoulders above what Java developers have wet dreams about. Scalability is certainly not inferior to Java in any way. The C# language has been significantly better than Java since 2008, and the distance between the two is increasing. Ongoing maintenance cost for .Net is significantly below what it is for .Net. I've spent more time on digging apps out of the horrendous monstrosity that was EJBs and J2EE than I have been actually adding features. I am soon done moving an EJB/Seam/Java/Hibernate/ app to .Net using mostly WebAPI and Angular 2. Adding features to the new app is done with half the resources in less than half the time compared to the old app. I'd say at least 50% of that is caused by the tools and the technology used, the other half is the over-engineering by the previous developers.
  Java is playing catch-up, but it is playing catch-up-by-committee. It's not catching up.
33. Re:new MS? nothings changed. by terjeber · 2016-06-28 11:01 · Score: 1
  
  Companies that use .NET are not smart
  Can you elaborate on why? :Net and C# beats the Java platform in every single way except perhaps one, the Play Framework, which originally was basically .Net MVC ported to Java.
  
  Would be better to use an open source toolkit rather than to make oneself hostage of MS,
  Ah, that explains it. You are just clueless. Let''s see, what Open Source tools are .Net comprised of? Well, all of .Net obviously. The C# Compiler too. Is the Java compiler open source? More? Yeah, Visual Studio is free, but it isn't open source, but then again, Visual Studio Code, a very good IDE for just about anything is. Yeah, so ALL the tools I use on my MacBook Pro to develop Angular and Ionic apps with .Net back-ends are in fact open source. Wow. You get the price for the most clueless person still living in the 1990s.
34. Re:new MS? nothings changed. by exomondo · 2016-06-28 11:39 · Score: 1
  
  I think you're missing the point. A lot of people here don't really understand open source, open source is their way of saying "not microsoft" so when microsoft releases something open source which can be forked, modified, improved, changed, etc such people simply cannot understand it.
35. Re:new MS? nothings changed. by Anonymous Coward · 2016-06-29 16:43 · Score: 0
  
  Somebody's parser is broken and they managed to snag an Informative mod for not understanding what the very common English phrase "from X to Y" means. Nice going.
  BTW, *I* work for a tech firm that has over 150,000 employees. You were saying...?
36. Re:new MS? nothings changed. by Gr8Apes · 2016-06-30 01:43 · Score: 1
  
  The reason the folks switched from .NET were precisely productivity, reliability, scalability, and we can add ongoing maintenance costs
  This is pure nonsense. I did Java for the Enterprise from 1997 through 2006. I worked for one of the first companies in the world that had significant product for the Telecom world written in Java. Back then we could not inform our customers it was Java since Java was perceived as too slow for our market segment. A colleague of mine wrote an SNMP stack at the time that was at least two orders of magnitude faster than any other stack out there. I struggled with CORBA when the Iona C++ ORB would not talk to the Iona Java ORB.
  Since 2008 I've been doing about 20% Java, 60% C#/.Net and the rest a combination of Ruby, C and some Scala. C# blows Java out of the water in every single way. Tooling is heads and shoulders above what Java developers have wet dreams about. Scalability is certainly not inferior to Java in any way. The C# language has been significantly better than Java since 2008, and the distance between the two is increasing. Ongoing maintenance cost for .Net is significantly below what it is for .Net. I've spent more time on digging apps out of the horrendous monstrosity that was EJBs and J2EE than I have been actually adding features. I am soon done moving an EJB/Seam/Java/Hibernate/ app to .Net using mostly WebAPI and Angular 2. Adding features to the new app is done with half the resources in less than half the time compared to the old app. I'd say at least 50% of that is caused by the tools and the technology used, the other half is the over-engineering by the previous developers.
  Java is playing catch-up, but it is playing catch-up-by-committee. It's not catching up.
  Where to start? OK, let's start with that I fully switched from the C/C++ world to Java in 98. It was a little clunky back then, but fast enough. I've seen .NET solutions that use 10X or more the resources used by equivalent Java systems. I've converted .NET programs to Java, which ran faster and cleaner after conversion. Tooling? What tooling? If you're talking about LYNC, what a pile of shit that is. Is it better than Hibernate? The answer to that question is "Would you rather be shit on by an elephant or a mammoth?" In the choice between those two, I'll take what's behind door #3, thank you.
  EJBs are anathema to productivity, performance, or anything else. I personally wish they'd never been thought of or given a name, as they are just about the worst thing you could possibly try to code and maintain. MFC spaghetti code intertwined with a CORBA bus or two might be more pleasant. Seam is another thing I don't think is very useful. You'll also be shocked that I am of the opinion that Spring sucks rocks too.
  J2EE itself has a few useful pieces, but at this point, I only use some base frameworks and the application servers themselves. The rest is custom business logic (the value to the company) and a light framework, if necessary.
  I'll state this much: I have had the opportunity to see a pair of systems that did the same function, one written in .NET by experts in .NET compared to a Java system written mostly by younger programmers, not all of whom were Java programmers. The Java system easily outperformed the .NET system by a factor of 10:1, was updated multiple times for each .NET update cycle, and was more capable than the .NET system. Both systems were in the millions of LOCs and performed tens of thousands of transactions a minute at peak. The Java system isn't a fluke. I've worked on quite a few large scale high transaction systems, all written in Java. I'm semi embarrassed to mention I've also written some "secure" C# appliances (AFAIK, they haven't been hacked yet) that were a bear to make work corr
  
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  The cesspool just got a check and balance.
37. Re:new MS? nothings changed. by terjeber · 2016-06-30 21:44 · Score: 1
  
  If you're talking about LYNC
  I assume, since this was in a DB context, you meant Linq, Lync is a messenger thingimajig I believe. Linq is a language feature not a tool, if you don't know what tools are ask a programmer. Oh, and I doubt the number of developers in the .Net world that uses Linq2SQL directly is insignificant, if you are dealing with a DB you're probably using the .Net equivalent to Hibernate, the Entity Framework. The developers of the Entity Framework did learn a thing or two from Hibernate though, and the Entity Framework, though far from perfect, is far less of a clusterfuck than Hibernate is. Still, neither are great for DB apps with significant performance requirements. Entity Framework blows Hibernate out of the water though. Both in performance and usability. Nuclear blast style blows out of the water. Where EF is just not great, Hibernate should actually be banned from the Enterprise, and in many companies where I have worked, it actually is.
  Linq on the other hand just another way to write Lambda expressions, in fact, Linq queries are compiled to Lambda expressions by the C# compiler. If Linq is bad then Lambdas are bad. If Lambdas are bad then I am curious as to why the Java community has been begging for them for years. Linq can be used to write lambdas for any collection type. I currently fetch Json from a very, very slow government server somewhere and I use lambdas to parse the data as it comes back. Since the server in question doesn't do any filtering on the data at all, and I'm only interested in about 5% of what it returns, having a single line of code extracting what I need is cool. I can write [obviously it's a tad more complex] var myStuff = allStuff.Where( s => "value".Equals(s.property)); which is quite useful. The code runs once every 24 hours, so I don't really care if it runs in 2ms or 3ms. If performance was critical, I might have written it differently. Why being able to query Json like that would be a bad thing is a mystery to me. Can you elaborate please? Why are lambdas horrible? I could have written it in Linq too (from d in data where d.property == "value" select d) but that would have been more verbose and to me (but that is just preference) less clear. The code is identical though, once it's run through the first compiler step. As a side note - about a year ago that server returned a highly convoluted XML stream instead of Json. The code to filter my data from the XML result didn't change at all. I can query Json, XML, a list of C# objects or a database with the same line of code. As I said, I'm not saying it is hugely performant, but for most Enterprise applications that is actually not an issue.
  Now, you can easily argue that Lambdas (and by association Linq) are not performant enough for high-performance applications, and depending on how the lambda implementation for various entities, you would most of the time be correct. So, stay away from them. Linq and Lambdas are great for many types of applications where performance is perhaps important but load is lower.
  
  The Java system easily outperformed the .NET system by a factor of 10:1
  Seriously? This comment alone shows that you are lying through your teeth. There isn't a single benchmark in the world that would give a ten to one speed advantage for Java over .Net. Not one. It's pure balderdash.
  
  was updated multiple times for each .NET update cycle
  So you claim it is easier to update Java apps than C# apps? That's just nonsense. Fanboi warning. Remember, your programming language is a tool, not a savior of your soul. Get a grip. The similarities between C# and Java are significantly more important than the differences, but C# tooling is far better. Re-factoring, for example, in Visual Studio with Re-Sharper blows the Eclipse variation out of the water, it easily beats IntelliJ too. The fact
38. Re:new MS? nothings changed. by Gr8Apes · 2016-07-02 01:02 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah, Linq, the initial spell check marked my typo as an error, and after a failed google-fu that only popped up LYNC, I changed it. It happens.
  While linq makes great promises, it pretty much fails to deliver as soon as you get to anything interesting, and this is not unique. I've seen the same with hibernate, JPA, and several other flavors of these "helpful" frameworks. When it comes to large data sets and high performance, these "helpful" frameworks have, in my experience, always worked against you. The worst case of Hibernate vomit I ever saw was several 100K of custom code merely to deal with object relationships that Hibernate couldn't handle any other way. To be honest, I used to be a Hibernate proponent long ago, until my own codebase's custom code exceeded 25K LOCs just to handle the ever increasing complexity as new features got added over time. We stopped, rearchitected the DA, and 5K LoCs later (and about 3 months) replaced the entire Hibernate mess with a sensible base framework that was not only easier to deal with but faster and safer, as we had also uncovered a possible injection attack or two in the old codebase while converting it (Yes, Hibernate still won't save you from a developer's bad code) You might ask, what did we lose? Yes, we lost the ability to just plug in another DB. Whooppie shit. Guess how often I've needed that feature and a framework handled it? Not once. And to answer your obvious next question, I have multiple projects in my career that supported pluggable DBs. Not one used these frameworks.
  Lambdas? I haven't seen where they are significantly better than other simpler solutions. They save you typing a few characters and a couple of braces. Considering most of that is handled by the IDE, what, exactly, is it providing me? Oh, and we've had the ability to work with closures in Java since hmmmmm... anonymous classes were introduced. They had a couple of extra stipulations, but you could functionally create them. Apparently typing 5 characters and a space was too much for some programmers.
  Outperforming statement: 60 Java servers plus 20 AS400 systems carried significantly more work load than more than an 1800 windows based set of servers doing less actual functional work (competing companies, I happened to deal with both). That's a greater than 10:1 difference. I can't get any more specific than that. You can accept that statement as is or not.
  Updating the apps: the difference was in architectural design decisions. The Java app was far more modular, with features being able to be added to a module without affecting anything else. The .NET system was monolithic, both by design and necessity according to their architecture team. I've never had the option to see if there was a better way in the .NET world as the projects I was involved with were tweaks to improve bits or wholesale redesigns because you would spend more time trying to refactor code than you would rebuilding the entire system. Sometimes bad architecture lays a crumbling foundation that just can't be corrected.
  You'll note through your condescension if you read through the end that all those extra frameworks are just fine for simple bookstore apps. When you scale systems up for large data and/or users in significantly more complex systems than a bookstore app, performance is always important. A current startup project is still in testing stages, and tables are already touching 1M rows. It's not even live yet, when they'll easily explode by comparison. An extra ms in a function can mean a lot in that type of scenario. There is a frequently used lookup function that pulls hundreds of multi-table records in sub 100ms times under load. If each of those calls hit 5 tables and each table call required an extra ms to execute, I could close up shop today. BTW, that's exactly what finally drove the approval to re-design a linq system to remove linq, linq was just adding too much time to the calls and couldn't be optimized any further. Several tables exce
  
  --
  The cesspool just got a check and balance.
39. Re:new MS? nothings changed. by terjeber · 2016-07-02 05:41 · Score: 1
  
  it pretty much fails to deliver as soon as you get to anything interesting
  Could you elaborate please? Again, keep databases out of it, Linq is not a database framework. The fact that you continue to compare Linq to Hibernate shows you think Linq is database related, which just shows your ignorance. Linq has nothing to do with databases.
  
  Lambdas? I haven't seen where they are significantly better than other simpler solutions
  You are kidding right? Lambdas are the simple solution, they make code more succinct and to the point than the alternatives. Your statement shows that you think you know best and everybody else is wrong. This just shows a staggering level of ignorance. There is a reason "everybody" wants Lambdas. They make your code better. They are not magical, but succinct code is better than overly verbose code, which the code is when not using lambdas.
  
  You can accept that statement as is or not.
  Considering the fact that all you have provided so far is ignorant nonsense (about both lambdas and Linq) I take what you say for what it is. The ramblings of someone who's relevance has come (being nice here) and gone. Probably decades ago.
  
  The Java app was far more modular
  So you are not comparing Java to C#/.Net. They two are close to identical in base features, so it is impossible to make a Java app that is more modular than you can make a .Net app. What you are saying above is that you are comparing the code of a bunch of morons who could not make a modular app to the code of competent developers that could. That's the comparison of an ignorant moron. There is nothing in Java that makes it possible to create more modular apps than you could in .Net. Quite the opposite in fact, at the moment, since DI etc is a core part of the .Net framework, it is easier to create modular .Net apps than Java apps out of the box. In Java you first have to figure out, for example, what DI framework to use.
  
  Sometimes bad architecture lays a crumbling foundation that just can't be corrected.
  Yeah, but bad architecture is not a framework or language feature. Bad architecture is a feature of the software developers implementing the solution. Using bad developers as an example to illustrate bad frameworks or bad languages is moronic, to put it mildly. If you had any experience as a developer, you would know that.
  
  Java's outperforming C# is based on real world scenarios
  No, it is not, and you just said it is not. In real world scenarios nobody in the world has observed what you claim. You are the only one. So, is everybody in the world an idiot and you a genius? Probably not, you are just ignorant. You said that the reason the systems you were struggling with were bad was because of incompetent developers, not a bad framework or a bad language decision. The performance is based on the fact that the developers you are talking about were morons, not that the tools they had selected were bad. Bad architecture creates un-maintainable software, bad architecture will usually result in under-performing software, but that has nothing to do with the tools. Seriously. You can't be this dumb!
  
  A current startup project is still in testing stages, and tables are already touching 1M rows...
  If each of those calls hit 5 tables...
  So you are talking about relatively small systems with few tables and quite moderate amounts of data. OK. That may explain things. You simply haven't worked on teams where performance is an issue, you have had some straight-out-of-school kids do some stuff in .Net, and you think that you have worked on big data stuff. That's more than just a little sad.
  Imagine an MPLS switched network with about 20 000 nodes, switches some servers
40. Re:new MS? nothings changed. by Gr8Apes · 2016-07-02 09:54 · Score: 1
  
  it pretty much fails to deliver as soon as you get to anything interesting
  Could you elaborate please? Again, keep databases out of it, Linq is not a database framework. The fact that you continue to compare Linq to Hibernate shows you think Linq is database related, which just shows your ignorance. Linq has nothing to do with databases.
  I'd quote your "You're a moron" but it doesn't do justice to your statements.
  You're already toast in my scenarios if you are passing more data than you need into your applications and are parsing shit in memory. That's why I restrict linq discussions purely to DBs, because any other use in what I do would be flat out stupid and the road to failure. If you don't see that, your project will probably be one I, or someone like me, will have to come rescue in the near future.
  
  So you are not comparing Java to C#/.Net. They two are close to identical in base features, so it is impossible to make a Java app that is more modular than you can make a .Net app. What you are saying above is that you are comparing the code of a bunch of morons who could not make a modular app to the code of competent developers that could. That's the comparison of an ignorant moron.
  ROFLMAO. If... no.
  
  Sometimes bad architecture lays a crumbling foundation that just can't be corrected.
  Yeah, but bad architecture is not a framework or language feature.
  But some languages and features promote bad architecture. And some obviously haven't figured that out yet, and some never will.
  
  A current startup project is still in testing stages, and tables are already touching 1M rows... If each of those calls hit 5 tables...
  So you are talking about relatively small systems with few tables and quite moderate amounts of data. OK. That may explain things.
  That was a simple example, and yet you failed to comprehend what that example was telling you.
  
  You simply haven't worked on teams where performance is an issue, you have had some straight-out-of-school kids do some stuff in .Net, and you think that you have worked on big data stuff. That's more than just a little sad.
  Imagine an MPLS switched network with about 20 000 nodes, switches some servers etc. They are all SNMP managed, and they have 64 or 128 points each that regularly report status back to the NMS. On average approximatley once per hours at night, more during the day.In addition there is about 100 performance counters for each of the devices from which performance data is collected every 15 minutes, aggregated to hourly, daily, weekly, monthly and yearly aggregated values. The data collection alone means about 10 million inserts into the database every hour. Stored procedures aggregate these values, and they are presented as close to live as possible in various dashboards. That's not a very large system, it is bigger than the bookstore example you provide, but it's not one of our bigger installations. It runs entirely on the .Net platform and it's not even close to breaking a sweat.
  Let's look at another one, one that you are maybe familiar with. It's called the iCloud. You know, the infrastructure on which Apple is relying to serve all of its Apple Mac and iDevice customers. Apple didn't have the infrastructure in place to build their own, so they out-sourced it. To Microsoft Azure (and also to AWS). Azure is built onw which platform again?
  You're a moron.
  I was doing that back in 2000. Are you using my code? That was almost a trivial amount of throughput even back them (DB limited). I have since written simple systems like that to support reporting that handled 50K multi-stage transactions and 500K inserts per minute for entirely different systems. Those were generally trivial solu
  
  --
  The cesspool just got a check and balance.
41. Re:new MS? nothings changed. by terjeber · 2016-07-03 00:03 · Score: 1
  
  That's why I restrict linq discussions purely to DBs
  No, that's not why you restricted it to just DBs. You restricted it to DBs because you are ignorant. You don't use Linq2SQL in your app. It's that fucking simple. Not if performance is important. If performance is not important you also do not use Linq2SQL, you use the Entity Framework, which can be queried by using Linq, but it isn't a part of the framework. Linq is not, has never been, and will never be a DB framework. You are equating your own ignorant opinion to basic facts. The problem with opinions is that they are lie assholes. Everybody has one and they mostly stink. Fact: Linq has nothing to do with DB access. Your opinion in that matter is irrelevant. It is contradicted by fact. Also, more on your vast inexperience below when you say retarded stuff like: "You're already toast in my scenarios if you are passing more data than you need into your applications and are parsing shit in memory"
  
  But some languages and features promote bad architecture
  Java and C# are basically identical. The framework that have grown up around them are also basically identical (and porting between the two is plentiful, so you can get monstrosities like nHibernate and more useful stuff like log4net. Yes, languages and frameworks promote bad architecture, and Java and C# are so close to being identical that they promote identical architectural solutions. Since C# has developed in the wake of Java, it has avoided some of the monstrosities of Java, such as EJBs and the whole J2EE nonsense. Conversely, where interesting stuff was done in .Net, Java developers picked it up. The Play Framework v1 is basically what you would get if you port the good parts of -NET MVC to Java. V 2.0 is what you get if you employ the same job on Play 1 using Scala as your language.
  
  yet you failed to comprehend what that example was telling you
  No, it told me plenty. All of it about you. You have no experience with larger systems. You have no experience integrating with external systems over which you have no control. Here is an example of your mind-boggling in-experience. Your comment "You're already toast in my scenarios if you are passing more data than you need into your applications and are parsing shit in memory". I even told you why this was necessary but you simply have no experience with integrating with external systems. You therefore have never been in a situation where you have no choice. The service I was specifically talking about above was an external government (non-US) service which we could query for information vital to our system. The service had no search facilities, it had no possibility of limiting the data set you pulled down. In other words, we had no choice but pulling the data down, and it had to be real-time and do the filtering in memory. It took us seven years to get them to put an API in place and it would have taken us another five to get them to make the data searchable. You have clearly never attempted to gather data from data sources that were not your own and that you therefore had no control over whatsoever.
  
  As for Apple 1) they built it on AWS, 2) when Azure was stable enough they distributed their risk. 3) Azure is at least 33% Linux based
  Apple built the iCloud on AWS and Azure simultaneously, and the two serve somewhat different purposes. But hey, let's look at the rest of your statemment, shall we?
  
  3) Azure is at least 33% Linux based
  Yes, obviously. Microsoft released Linux on Azure in 2013, after it having been available in Beta since late 2012. So, when did Apple launch the iCloud on Azure? 2011.
  
  You are a pretentious fool
  If I was pretentious I would have to make positive statements about something. The only example of self I have used was in response to some pretentious nonsense you blabbered about on
42. Re:new MS? nothings changed. by Gr8Apes · 2016-07-07 03:38 · Score: 1
  No, that's not why you restricted it to just DBs. You restricted it to DBs because you are ignorant. You don't use Linq2SQL in your app. It's that fucking simple. Not if performance is important.
  So from your statements, you don't use linq for DBs, and you don't use linq for performant code. So linq is generally useless according to your own statements for the class of systems we're discussing. Glad we got that out of the way.
  
  Conversely, where interesting stuff was done in .Net, Java developers picked it up. The Play Framework v1 is basically what you would get if you port the good parts of -NET MVC to Java.
  I reviewed Play a few years ago and found it wanting for a variety of reasons, not least of which was obscurity at the time. However, you might want to correct who took what from whom. A quick review of history shows Play pre-releases preceding the .NET MVC framework pre-release, and v1.0 was released a year prior to .NET MVC 1.0. The only statement I'm making is that your statement implying that Play ported anything from .NET is a complete fallacy.
  
  yet you failed to comprehend what that example was telling you
  No, it told me plenty. All of it about you. You have no experience with larger systems.
  Sure it did. Your level of reading comprehension dwarfs your IQ, apparently.
  
  You have no experience integrating with external systems over which you have no control. Here is an example of your mind-boggling in-experience. Your comment "You're already toast in my scenarios if you are passing more data than you need into your applications and are parsing shit in memory". I even told you why this was necessary but you simply have no experience with integrating with external systems. You therefore have never been in a situation where you have no choice. The service I was specifically talking about above was an external government (non-US) service which we could query for information vital to our system. The service had no search facilities, it had no possibility of limiting the data set you pulled down. In other words, we had no choice but pulling the data down, and it had to be real-time and do the filtering in memory. It took us seven years to get them to put an API in place and it would have taken us another five to get them to make the data searchable. You have clearly never attempted to gather data from data sources that were not your own and that you therefore had no control over whatsoever.
  You're misleading at best, or lying at worst. Let me get this straight: you were processing a multi-million row complex data set on the fly for every query? From a government data set? Right. Oh wait, you had single queries per hour across a tiny data set? Because I can't imagine you were processing 10s of thousands of requests per minute on data that was as monstrous as you imply from any government's service. Setting up a simple searchable data polling proxy service, however, should take you all of a couple of weeks, tops. But why am I telling you that? You obviously know everything there is to know about large data sets and high concurrency.
  
  Yes, obviously. Microsoft released Linux on Azure in 2013, after it having been available in Beta since late 2012. So, when did Apple launch the iCloud on Azure? 2011.
  Apple stored encrypted files on Azure in 2011 according to some docs released in 2014. Not exactly what you're implying but hey, what's a few facts compared to an invective laden superiority complex rant?
  
  If I was pretentious I would have to make positive statements about something.
  Pretentious:
  
  adjective
  
  1. characterized by assumption of dignity or importance, especially when exa
  --
  The cesspool just got a check and balance.
43. Re:new MS? nothings changed. by terjeber · 2016-07-07 06:24 · Score: 1
  
  So linq is generally useless according to your own statements for the class of systems we're discussing
  Did I ever argue it was? However, in all systems there are significant portions that are not performance critical. Even if the overall system is. In those areas, Linq is better than the alternatives.
  
  not least of which was obscurity
  Obscurity? You have to be kidding me.
  
  The only statement I'm making is that your statement implying that Play ported anything from .NET is a complete fallacy
  So you clearly know a lot more than the creators of the Play framework. You can go here and see what the Play framework creators think that they them selves did, but hey, you probably know best. Play comes with Twirl, a powerful Scala-based template engine, whose design was inspired by ASP.NET Razor. Does it hurt to be that dumb?
  
  you were processing a multi-million row complex data set on the fly for every query?
  
  Talking about reading comprehension...Imagine processing a certain type of performance data every 15 minutes. This is the monstrous data set. As part of that processing, you are required to enrich certain records with data retrieved at the beginning of the fifteen minute interval from an external source. One where you have no ability to control the result set size. Was that difficult to comprehend? That data must be processed, in memory, prior to you being able to do any form of data enrichment. Was that difficult to comprehend? Again, have you ever worked with external data providers?
  
  Setting up a simple searchable data polling proxy service, however, should take you all of a couple of weeks, tops
  You have clearly never worked with the government. It can't do anything in "a couple of weeks". A couple of years, perhaps. The big telcos are similar, or at least were ten years ago.
  
  NPM
  Sigh.
  Hey, let's see you back up your 10:1 speed difference. Moron.
44. Re:new MS? nothings changed. by Gr8Apes · 2016-07-07 08:45 · Score: 1
  
  [I reviewed Play a few years ago ...] not least of which was obscurity
  Obscurity? You have to be kidding me.
  You're going to argue that Play in 2009 was not obscure? Your audacity is mind-boggling.
  
  So you clearly know a lot more than the creators of the Play framework. You can go here and see what the Play framework creators think that they them selves did, but hey, you probably know best. Play comes with Twirl, a powerful Scala-based template engine, whose design was inspired by ASP.NET Razor. Does it hurt to be that dumb?
  You tell me. We were discussing Play pre-releases and Play 1.0, not Play 2.5 from 6+ years later. FYI "moving the goal posts", what you're attempting to do here, is a sign of a losing argument. Just admit you're wrong and we'll be done. In case you can't do that, why don't you tell us when Twirl was added to Play and how that relates to my statements about Play up to release 1.0.
  
  you were processing a multi-million row complex data set on the fly for every query?
  Talking about reading comprehension...Imagine processing a certain type of performance data every 15 minutes. This is the monstrous data set. As part of that processing, you are required to enrich certain records with data retrieved at the beginning of the fifteen minute interval from an external source. One where you have no ability to control the result set size. Was that difficult to comprehend? That data must be processed, in memory, prior to you being able to do any form of data enrichment. Was that difficult to comprehend? Again, have you ever worked with external data providers?
  Not exactly a high-concurrency large data set system, now is it? My statements above, and throughout, have not been about either/or, it's both. Either scenario by itself, while presenting certain challenges is nothing really compared to a combination of both. Should you graduate from bottle feeding you'll figure out that anything you can hold in memory in a single system is NOT large data. What you're describing is simple feed processing that barely registers as a task.
  
  Setting up a simple searchable data polling proxy service, however, should take you all of a couple of weeks, tops
  You have clearly never worked with the government. It can't do anything in "a couple of weeks". A couple of years, perhaps. The big telcos are similar, or at least were ten years ago.
  I didn't say anything about them, I clearly stated "you". I integrated with several external sources for exactly this type of data just a few months ago. Each service (my side) took a couple of weeks. I required no changes on their side. On this system we service 1000s per minute with latencies in sub 50ms compared to a service that at most can handle 10/minute with minimum 500ms latencies, and I'm not the only client of this admittedly non-gov entity. I wish they were as responsive as the gov, actually. I might see progress every now and then. You truly have some weaknesses, both professionally and personally. You remind me of that guy I ran into that used to work for Amazon and fancied himself an architect. He's no longer allowed to do anything that touches production systems.
  
  Moron.
  So once you learned what pretentious means you dropped your argument that you aren't. There may be hope for you yet. Perhaps learning what moron means next will allow you to properly use it in the future, because from this thread, I'm pretty sure you don't comprehend its actual meaning.
  
  --
  The cesspool just got a check and balance.
45. Re:new MS? nothings changed. by terjeber · 2016-07-07 11:20 · Score: 1
  
  You're going to argue that Play in 2009 was not obscure? Your audacity is mind-boggling.
  It was the most light-weight, most non-obscure of all the Java frameworks. I understand this can be difficult to understand. Ask someone who knows Java the next time you meet them. Now, can you find another source that agrees with your moronic 10:1 advantage? Fanbois are tiring.
46. Re:new MS? nothings changed. by Gr8Apes · 2016-07-08 02:13 · Score: 1
  
  [Play in 2009] was the most light-weight, most non-obscure of all the Java frameworks.
  
  confirms everything said about you in ancestor posts.
  
  Now, can you find another source that agrees with your moronic 10:1 advantage?
  It was clearly stated as being a comparison of 2 systems. Could the .NET system have been rebuilt to follow the better "best practices" of the Java design? Sure. But unless it went hybrid, it would never compete, as the core data services ran on big iron and wintel had nothing even close in the ballpark, something about 4 CPU systems being the max at the time. So if you believe even 40 windows boxes could keep up with a single AS400, well, we're done then, because they can't in the domain in question. Again, this goes to big data and high concurrency, combined, something you still seem to have trouble digesting.
  
  --
  The cesspool just got a check and balance.
47. Re:new MS? nothings changed. by terjeber · 2016-07-08 09:31 · Score: 1
  
  something about 4 CPU systems being the max at the time
  Ignorant BS. You just proved your self 100% clueless.
Telemetry by Anonymous Coward · 2016-06-27 05:46 · Score: 0

But let me guess, I have to install all that telemetry crap to get .NET functionality? I don't know if I have to, but I wouldn't be surprised if I am required to. How else will it be cross-platform without being in-line with Microsoft's vision?
Re: "Finally!"??? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-06-27 05:46 · Score: 1

I kinda want to make systemd run nibbles.bas and gorilla.bas now that you said that!
dotNet: Now on Linux. Oh, Joy. by Anonymous Coward · 2016-06-27 05:46 · Score: 0

Joy.
Re:"Finally!"??? by RightSaidFred99 · 2016-06-27 05:47 · Score: 0

Lol, guess how I can tell you aren't a professional?
Don't worry; no one wants it by Anonymous Coward · 2016-06-27 05:47 · Score: 0

Linux users already rejected Mono.
1. Re:Don't worry; no one wants it by chipschap · 2016-06-27 05:52 · Score: 1
  
  Mono has too many problems. The one good thing about .net on Linux is that it might (*might*) encourage some cross-platform compatibility.
Re:do. not. want. by Anonymous Coward · 2016-06-27 05:47 · Score: 0

From the article:
The telemetry feature is on by default. The data collected is anonymous in nature and will be published in an aggregated form for use by both Microsoft and community engineers under a Creative Commons license.
You can opt-out of the telemetry feature by setting an environment variable DOTNET_CLI_TELEMETRY_OPTOUT (e.g. export on OS X/Linux, set on Windows) to true (e.g. “true”, 1). Doing this will stop the collection process from running.
Red Hat by Anonymous Coward · 2016-06-27 05:48 · Score: 0

Are Red Hat employees forced to wear red hats?
What if they all decided to wear blue hats?
1. Re:Red Hat by Timex · 2016-06-27 06:00 · Score: 1
  
  I do believe red hats were banned when Trump started marketing them for fundraising.
  
  --
  When politicians are involved, everyone loses.
Not really ready for prime time by Kupo · 2016-06-27 05:48 · Score: 5, Informative

I've been holding my breath for a long time for this, and it's pretty disappointing to have to say... This is really not ready for real use -- at least for most non-trivial use. For example, I can't easily get a MySQL connector to work, since it's meant for .NET 4.x and not Core. The majority of packages I use in my projects don't support Core. Obviously this takes time, and without Core being live, it would have less priority for package maintainers to actually support Core. That's understandable. But it's just hard to do anything useful with it, and as a developer, it's highly frustrating to not be able to do something that should be so fundamental like importing 3rd party packages. The new CLI toolset is a bit weird, and it's a few steps backwards of what they were proposing of being able to do, like save and reload (quickly) -- but I suppose that for now, I should just be celebrating that they're headed in the right direction... Maybe.
1. Re:Not really ready for prime time by sconeu · 2016-06-27 06:40 · Score: 1
  
  This is what I was about to ask...
  What version of the .NET CLR is it compatible with? 3.0? 4.0? 4.7?
  
  --
  General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
2. Re:Not really ready for prime time by CruisinAdam · 2016-06-27 07:14 · Score: 2
  
  From what I can gather from their portability analysis tool, it's a subset of .Net Platform 5.0. .Net Platform 5.0, I believe is the next big .Net for Windows. Then a subset of that functionality is present in .Net Core 5.0.
  The tool shows compatibility for the following versions when run on one of my assemblies:
  .NET Core,Version=v5.0 (compatibility shown) aka .Net Core 1
  .NET Framework,Version=v4.6.2 (actual version I'm using)
  .NETPlatform,Version=v5.0 (compatibility shown),
3. Re:Not really ready for prime time by CRC'99 · 2016-06-27 18:15 · Score: 1
  
  I've been holding my breath for a long time for this, and it's pretty disappointing to have to say... This is really not ready for real use -- at least for most non-trivial use.
  We're seeing that something is keeping a spinlock going instead of actually waiting - as a process that is waiting for data is using 100% CPU while waiting. Doesn't do the same on Windows. The guys are now refactoring for this release to see if its fixed in this vs Preview 1.
  
  --
  Sendmail is like emacs: A nice operating system, but missing an editor and a MTA.
4. Re:Not really ready for prime time by bondsbw · 2016-06-28 03:26 · Score: 2
  
  This gets into the details for the .NET Platform Standard and which versions of each official .NET implementation correspond to which versions of the standard:
  https://github.com/dotnet/core...
  It also provides a better system of dependency management (guard rails) when using a subset implementation.
  
  --
  All my liberal friends think I'm a conservative, all my conservative friends think I'm a liberal.
A convergence of Windows and Linux. by Anonymous Coward · 2016-06-27 05:48 · Score: 1

I'm not surprised by this. We've been seeing a convergence of Windows and Linux for some time now. Like Slashdot recently reported, there has been a preview release of Windows 10 that includes bash. On the Linux side, systemd and GNOME 3 have been inspired by Windows, and have brought a more Windows-like experience to Linux. An example of this is how a change in systemd broke UNIX commands like screen and tmux. Both OSes are slowing migrating toward each other.
1. Re:A convergence of Windows and Linux. by Anonymous Coward · 2016-06-27 13:13 · Score: 0
  
  It is not a convergence of Windows and Linux nor have you been seeing it for some time now. Windows is trying to pretend they aren't spyware and they embrace the competition like a Trojan Horse.
  Your mod point came directly from Microsoft. There are many apps from *nix ported to Windows because they are the best eg. VLC.
  You can not trust Microsoft in any case, they are cooperative in full with the American government. It is a good idea to keep their code as far away from Linux as possible. With Redhat it is different because they have always been known to go for the money.
Re:do. not. want. by Anonymous Coward · 2016-06-27 05:51 · Score: 0

Sorry. "opt out" is simply unacceptable. And even if you can, they are untrustworthy and I have no reason to believe they will do what they say they will, given their past behavior.
I gave up on Windows a good decade ago. Not going back, and not letting something like .NET get anywhere near my systems.
Those who don't learn from history...
Re:do. not. want. by Anonymous Coward · 2016-06-27 05:56 · Score: 0

Would this be the .NET from the same company that has been pushing spyware into millions of computers around the world and making it increasingly difficult to work out how to opt out?
Yes https://github.com/dotnet/cli/pull/2145.
Re:do. not. want. by mssymrvn · 2016-06-27 05:59 · Score: 1, Insightful

Now with .NET, the MS backdoor takeover of RedHat is more or less complete: systemd and Gnome make it hard for me to tell the difference between the two. Or maybe it's the backdoor of RedHat into Microsoft... Either way, similar result.
(taken with a slight wink and nod to the humor-impaired amongst you)
Re: "Finally!"??? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-06-27 06:02 · Score: 0

I was only saying it for the lolz, not to split hairs over qbasic. It was a joke to underscore the stupidity.
Bye Oracle-java. Android port? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-06-27 06:16 · Score: 0

I think I speak for lits of people when I say good riddance!!
Thanks again for the proprietary framework by Anonymous Coward · 2016-06-27 06:47 · Score: 0

Thanks again for the proprietary framework. Maybe they can try to get it to bypass the operating system and make Linux and OSX as unstable and crash and virus infected too. Nothing like adding autorun to an email client to allow sending of viruses! Kewel!
1. Re:Thanks again for the proprietary framework by Eravnrekaree · 2016-06-27 10:19 · Score: 1
  
  Running email servers as root and using root to install new programs (despite the installer only needing to modify a few files) isnt particularly smart either. Look at many Unix ways of doing things and its numb skulled.
2. Re:Thanks again for the proprietary framework by Anonymous Coward · 2016-06-27 12:53 · Score: 0
  
  Proprietary?
Microsoft patented Linux © by khz6955 · 2016-06-27 06:47 · Score: 2

"Red Hat and Microsoft have agreed to a limited patent arrangement in connection with the commercial partnership for the benefit of mutual customers." link

How could Red Hat be that stupid, signing the patent agreement means validating Microsoft claims that Linux violates their patents and now Red Hat is giving Microsoft a seat at an Open Source conference. Just how stupid do you have to be to not see this.
1. Re:Microsoft patented Linux © by Anonymous Coward · 2016-06-28 07:19 · Score: 0
  
  It's less about stupidity and more about money.
  Partnering up with Microsoft gives RH a big relevance boost with various companies that are currently heavily reliant on MS products.
  Also, it may well be that RH see Canonical as more of a direct threat than MS at this point.
Swift on Windows by Anonymous Coward · 2016-06-27 07:07 · Score: 0

A .net implementation of Swift exists for Window from a company called RemObjects called Elements. Swift is available, for free, in Silver.
Good Start... by ndykman · 2016-06-27 07:09 · Score: 3, Insightful

I think it's a much needed expansion of the .Net ecosystem (better late than never) and I do think will become a useful alternative to the JVM, which Oracle seems to have little interest in evolving or improving. It took forever to get invokedynamic added as an opcode. Tail call optimization is still not supported, after years of being requested. And there's tons of other ideas on the table that aren't getting anywhere.
In the case of .Net core, it's all open source. The runtime, the compiler, the cli tools. Sure, Microsoft isn't going to take any proposal on the table, but there's a process for making changes. And, C# is a great language to develop in (and F# is nice when you need it). And who knows, maybe it'll be a Scala target some day. I honestly think people will be surprised at it's performance compared to the JVM. It's adapted a lot of modernization that the JVM eschews for backwards compatibility and known predictability.
1. Re:Good Start... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-06-27 07:19 · Score: 0
  
  Oracle seems to have little interest in evolving or improving
  Oracle has been evolving and improving the JVM quite a lot. Far more than Sun did over the last decade. The only thing they've been neglecting is JEE and that's mainly because it's shit that needs to die.
2. Re:Good Start... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-06-27 16:11 · Score: 0
  
  Define "a lot" from your perspective. There have only been 2 releases of Java since Oracle took over. Not counting security patches and bug fixes, you can count the number of new features on your hand. Also, you take half of the features from their first version off that list because those were slated before Oracle bought Sun.
3. Re:Good Start... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-06-27 20:19 · Score: 0
  
  In the case of .Net core, it's all open source. The runtime, the compiler, the cli tools
  So isn't OpenJDK open source?
4. Re:Good Start... by grumpy-cowboy · 2016-06-28 00:25 · Score: 1
  
  Do we really need more and more and more .. features? And after that, everyone will complain that it's too bloated. Tired of this nonsense.
  
  --
  Will $CURRENT_YEAR be the year of the Linux Desktop?
5. Re:Good Start... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-06-28 04:31 · Score: 0
  
  That wasn't my point. My point was that previous comment mentioned that Oracle has been evolving or improving Java "QUITE A LOT". As far as documentation, what they have contributed is very low. Whether they need to or want to wasn't the point at all. I don't see security patches or bug fixes as evolving OR improving, but fixing a broken product.
  But that said, new or added features does not a bloat cause. The problem is if that new feature requires a lot more code to be added to the end product and if that code can be turned off.
  Improving the JVM and the Java language does NOT equate to adding to the JRE.
6. Re:Good Start... by Raenex · 2016-06-28 09:33 · Score: 1
  
  So isn't OpenJDK open source?
  Of course it is. There's also a "process for making changes", the Java Community Process.
It's a TRAP! by rahvin112 · 2016-06-27 08:26 · Score: 0

It's a TRAP!
Re: LOL by Anonymous Coward · 2016-06-27 08:46 · Score: 0

Sorry, too cold. Who'd want to live there?
I'm looking for Less by Anonymous Coward · 2016-06-27 08:56 · Score: 0

I'm looking for less of Microsoft - not more.
Being a windows / web dev for too long in the windows environment, when I leave that environment, the last thing I want is 1 line of code from MS.
Not ios by markdavis · 2016-06-27 09:50 · Score: 1

Why was this article categorized as "iOS"? It is much less about iOS than it is about Linux, Android or even MacOS. The story is about something revealed at the Red Hat Summit- clearly Linux-centric.
>"One of the purposes of .NET Core was to make Linux and OS X into first-class supported platforms,"
Linux and MacOS
Never use Redhat. Solved. by Anonymous Coward · 2016-06-27 09:51 · Score: 0

This is spyware cancer acting as if it's a bonus to have it in Linux also. If Tim Cook's ass wasn't already full of dicks you could run XQuartz on Windows.
Not all that useful by Eravnrekaree · 2016-06-27 10:17 · Score: 1

Its not really that useful as it does not include WPF, that excludes a large number of apps being able to run on Linux.
Hooray! by Dr.Dubious+DDQ · 2016-06-27 10:21 · Score: 1

One step closer to replacing crusty old BASH and stinky old Python with shiny new PowerShell!
(...it's obvious I'm joking, right?...)

--
Hacker Public Radio is our Friend
1. Re:Hooray! by Tesen · 2016-06-27 12:57 · Score: 1, Insightful
  
  I actually like PowerShell; it has improved over the years and being able to use .NET namespaces inside your shell script is useful. Right tool, for the right job after all.
MS misunderstood Google by Ilgaz · 2016-06-27 11:19 · Score: 1

If there is one way to make every kind of developer mad at you, it is watching their development machine and play cheap spyware tactics as "you had opt out option". I think some people may even get fired because of this.
I think they watched Google do all the "spying" and getting away with it but they miss a very critical point. I have never seen Google mess with corporate services , or developer facing software. Once you pay for corporate Gmail, all privacy issues are gone. Their Android SDK for Windows doesn't add a single binary to startup or run a single resident application by default, even crash reporters are opt in.
1. Re:MS misunderstood Google by TheRaven64 · 2016-06-28 00:23 · Score: 1
  
  Once you pay for corporate Gmail, all privacy issues are gone
  Spoken like someone who has never tried to use Google's commercial offerings. They claim that they anonymise the data that they collect, but they still collect a lot and their sales people have no power to negotiate on this (Microsoft's do and, unlike Google, were able to provide an SLA that allowed us to meet our legal requirements for confidentiality).
  
  --
  I am TheRaven on Soylent News
2. Re:MS misunderstood Google by Ilgaz · 2016-06-28 01:37 · Score: 1
  
  Once you pay for corporate Gmail, all privacy issues are gone
  Spoken like someone who has never tried to use Google's commercial offerings. They claim that they anonymise the data that they collect, but they still collect a lot and their sales people have no power to negotiate on this (Microsoft's do and, unlike Google, were able to provide an SLA that allowed us to meet our legal requirements for confidentiality).
  Sorry it seems that I was misinformed by their fans, I personally don't use any of their corporate solutions and for my personal mail, I keep paying to fastmail.fm guys.
Update by pigsycyberbully · 2016-06-27 11:23 · Score: 0

Can you imagine waking up in the morning and finding that your Linux machine has turned into Windows 10. It was an automatic update. HAHAHA.
1. Re:Update by Anonymous Coward · 2016-06-27 13:08 · Score: 0
  
  Linus doesn't have to cave to US government threats.
Re:LOL by Anonymous Coward · 2016-06-27 11:25 · Score: 0

> I'm so thankful for being a Canadian
Hah! Nice try but you can't fool me... I know you're not a Canadian: you forgot to say "sorry for becoming the world's dominant superpower"!
github repo is still failing by Anonymous Coward · 2016-06-27 14:20 · Score: 0

https://github.com/dotnet/corefx build failing on: CentOS 7.1, Fedora 23, OS X 10.11, Windows 7, Windows 8.1, Windows 10, Windows Nano Server 2016
https://github.com/dotnet/coreclr build failing on: openSUSE 13.2
Re:do. not. want. by Anonymous Coward · 2016-06-27 18:10 · Score: 1

Would this be the .NET from the same company that has been pushing spyware into millions of computers around the world and making it increasingly difficult to work out how to opt out?
Yes https://github.com/dotnet/cli/pull/2145.
So lucky it's open source then? Oh right, you're ready to throw open source under the bus for any opportunity to generate some Microsoft FUD. The answer here is to fork the project and/or don't accept the submission but ultimately -- as we have seen with systemd already -- the open source "community" is a bunch of do nothings who will bitch a little bit but ultimately suck down whatever is given to you. You claimed you needed source code and freedoms but as systemd and this have proven, you're just a bunch of lazy whiney cunts.
Why post as AC? by ebvwfbw · 2016-06-28 10:31 · Score: 1

Dude, get an account already. You have the experience, this isn't hard. Otherwise as an AC, it's like should I really give a crap what this person is saying? They're probably full of it.