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Linux Letting Go: 32-bit Builds On the Way Out (theregister.co.uk)
An anonymous shares a report on The Register:Major Linux distributions are in agreement: it's time to stop developing new versions for 32-bit processors. Simply: it's a waste of time, both to create the 32-bit port, and to keep 32-bit hardware around to test it on. At the end of June, Ubuntu developer Dimitri Ledkov chipped into the debate with this mailing list post, saying bluntly that 32-bit ports are a waste of resources. "Building i386 images is not 'for free', it comes at the cost of utilising our build farm, QA and validation time. Whilst we have scalable build-farms, i386 still requires all packages, autopackage tests, and ISOs to be revalidated across our infrastructure." His proposal is that Ubuntu version 18.10 would be 64-bit-only, and if users desperately need to run 32-bit legacy applications, the'll have to do so in containers or virtual machines. [...] In a forum thread, the OpenSUSE Chairman account says 32-bit support "doubles our testing burden (actually, more so, do you know how hard it is to find 32-bit hardware these days?). It also doubles our build load on OBS".
I think that the trouble finding testing hardware is quite telling.
Can end users even buy a new, off-the-shelf 32-bit system these days, except for specialized devices like embedded systems?
Is there anything more than a relatively tiny fraction of the user base that is stuck on 32-bit hardware, that can't use virtual machines to run that software on something that's not a potato?
And I mean, it's not like the old 32-bit versions of OS's are gone. Windows 95 is still around. It didn't go away. I'm willing to bet there are still Windows 95 machines running somewhere in mission critical systems in places around the world.
Yes, there's no security updates, but just unplug it from the internet and you're safe from the vast majority of attacks, and if you're worried about local access to your Windows 95 machine... install a thicker door?
At some point technology has to move on.
Check out my sci-fi book "Lacuna" at http://goo.gl/MVxX8
"doubles our testing burden (actually, more so, do you know how hard it is to find 32-bit hardware these days?)" I can find 32-bit hardware easily. Obviously, someone who didn't try and claims it not possible.
You can blame Cankles all you want but it was time.
(Tried googling)
... though I suppose one can continue to run an old version. And it's not reasonable to expect open source volunteers to do double work. But it is still a loss.
So tried E-bay (feebay) and there seem to be a near unlimited number of 32-bit computers for sale.
Well, I mean, if you're running Windows 10 right now... uhh.
Lemme rephrase. If Ubuntu 18.10 is 64-bit only, is that a problem? What show-stopping problem for a 2006 MacBook is present in 18.04 but fixed in 18.10?
What's wrong with running 18.04 until the hardware dies?
Check out my sci-fi book "Lacuna" at http://goo.gl/MVxX8
At least for intel Archs, you can install a 32 Bit OS on a computer with a 64 bit capable cpu.
I ain't voting for Cankles. Bernie isn't the nominee so Trump it is
Why not just drop the boot 32bit part and only have the compact 32bit libs. Like how windows server 2008 and newer is on the windows side.
Why cut off apps that can run today on a 64bit system with out needing any vm bs.
openSUSE dropped IA-32 builds from their brand new releases, and the Ubuntu community is talking about it (nevermind that 16.04 will support their IA-32 build for another five years). It's still supported by CentOS and Debian and lots of other distros. In short, saying you're shit-outta-luck is totally not accurate.
Be careful what you say here Dear creimer!
Now you have three frontiers against you!
a) the Apple/Mac hater
b) the Mac/Apple lovers who hate you because you run windows on a Mac!
c) the Windows haters
And I believe the Windows 10 haters or Windows 10 upgrade haters are just in the queue behind them!
Perhaps I should set up a shop with pitchforks close to your house and I finally become rich?
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
It's hard to believe that testing 32-bit really doubles the testing effort, but whatever.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Uh... as more time goes on, more exploits are found in all software, making all systems gradually more insecure. It's almost like there were a universal law governing such things *cough*.
If Ubuntu 18.10 is 64-bit only, is that a problem?
For a 32-bit processor, yes.
Incidentally here's a list of architectures supported by Suse 12, so:
aarch64 alphapca56 armv5tel geode ia64 ppc64 ppciseries sh4 sparcv9 alpha amd64 armv6hl i386 noarch ppc64iseries ppcpseries sh4a sparcv9v alphaev5 armv3l armv6l i486 pentium3 ppc64p7 s390 sparc x86_64 alphaev56 armv4b armv7hl i586 pentium4 ppc64pseries s390x sparc64 alphaev6 armv4l armv7l i686 ppc ppc8260 sh sparc64v alphaev67 armv5tejl athlon ia32e ppc32dy4 ppc8560 sh3 sparcv8
I don't even know what all of those are.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
But having no more 32bit machines with Ubuntu is probably a good thing.
Uh... as more time goes on, more exploits are found in all software, making all systems gradually more insecure. It's almost like there were a universal law governing such things *cough*.
Ubuntu's going to support IA-32 images for at least another five years (EOL for 16.04), probably seven (18.04 EOL). If your IA-32 system is still chugging by then, there'll still likely be Debian and CentOS to switch to.
What show-stopping problem for a 2006 MacBook is present in 18.04 but fixed in 18.10?
What's wrong with running 18.04 until the hardware dies?
Check out my sci-fi book "Lacuna" at http://goo.gl/MVxX8
Well, in 2018, the 2006 MacBook will be 12 years old. 18.04 is an LTS release and will have 5 years of support and security updates. By the time there are no more security patches, the machine will be 17 years old and software exploits will be the least of the user's concerns if it is still his/her main machine.
"Frequently wrong, never in doubt."
Gary Johnson? Jill Stein? Why pretend there are only 2 candidates?
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
The problem is not newly-bought consumer electronics or legacy software. The problem is legacy hardware. I'm still using the Thinkpad I bought in 2006 (4:3 aspect ratio display). Luckily it's a 64-bit processor, but others have older 32-bit machines.
It's also not about the kernel -- Linux itself will support 32-bit architecture for a long while more, and most software will compile correctly on both 32-bit and 64-bit, though it will be less and less true as distributions stop their QA and you are left with only the upstream development team.
Of course, these old machines are pretty few, so it probably does make sense for Ubuntu to drop 32-bit packages. Other more enthusiast-targeted distributions will probably keep 32-bit support. In particular Gentoo compiles everything locally.
Posts like this always confuse me. The terms i386 and 32-bit are not interchangeable. AFAIK, they were only talking about getting rid of i386 architecture (i.e. 20+ year old 32-bit hardware), but would maintain i686 (more recent 32-bit hardware) support.
It's hard to believe that testing 32-bit really doubles the testing effort, but whatever.
One of the biggest parts of testing consists of keeping test systems up and running and ready to run the tests, every retired system is less labor.
Virtual machines need updating and maintenance, too, they are not "free" by any stretch, again labor is saved when they are retired.
Often tests are not "totally bulletproof", with failures from system problems or incorrect setup, much labor is involved here in investigation and/or mitigation, again directly related to the number of systems to test.
My poor old Acer Netbook, 7 years old and going strong, isn't 64 bit, and runs Linux Mint very well. Oh no, what shall I do?
Really, there will be 32-bit compatibility for a minimum of 5 more years (Mint 18 support cycle) and by then ... maybe the Acer will deserve retirement.
That might have been true, except for the gift the Republicans received when Hillary bought the Democratic nomination.
There are lots of great Linux distros.
Website Just Down For Me? Find out
I guess I'm stuck using Windows 10 (32-bit) on my vintage 2006 MacBook (Intel Duo Core 32-bit processor).
Given that you're using an ancient processor, I'm not really sure why you would be against using ancient software.
I was surprised they bothered with 32-bit even back when windows 7 came out, but being a Linux user, I hadn't touched 32 bit for years even at that point. Why Windows 10 has 32-bit support I have no idea. Maybe for people like you that like really ancient, hot, slow processors.
Embedded, IoT and robotics are awash with 32 bit x86 stuff. And seriously, OBS load is the problem worth considering dropping x86?
What's wrong with running 18.04 until the hardware dies?
I've never got Ubuntu to install successfully on the MacBook. Mint Linux install fine.
I guess I'm stuck using Windows 10 (32-bit) on my vintage 2006 MacBook (Intel Duo Core 32-bit processor).
You have been found GUILTY of NON-GEEK THINKING!
Turn in your geek card and proceed to geek jail! You are here by sentenced to 3 years first level technical support ("Have you tried turning it on and off?").
Judges ruling:
As we see, a geek would just compile his own kernel to his machine and wouldn't need to worry about if one already existed compiled for his machine. The defendant won't or doesn't know about or doesn't know how. Three years of low level technical support should re-educate him. Parole is available after one year if he compiles and runs the latest Linux Distro of his choice on his machine.
Court adjourned.
The old laptop crowd should consider this as an opportunity to try something new - BSD!
http://www.openbsd.org/i386.html
https://www.freebsd.org/platforms/i386.html
http://wiki.netbsd.org/ports/i386/
Then use Debian. While discouraging i386 as default download is long overdue, judging from other old architectures, it'll be a long long time until i386 is retired from the first class arch set, and even then it'll be welcome in second class (AKA debian-ports), among stuff like m68k, alpha or sh4.
Or, use Debian-hurd. It's available for i386 only!
The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Well, at least you can look forward to our next president not being Donald Trump.
Are you kidding? Donald Trump has no money, no campaign staff in the battleground states, and the electoral map is stacked against him. The Republicans can kiss the White House, Senate, and maybe the House, goodbye.
First off - you are agreeing with the poster above.
Second, it's funny how the democrats complain about money in politics yet they are the biggest recipients from unions, businesses, and now international entities.
So much for Linux being "great for old hardware". This is really just an dubious move by distros and really just ignores a huge area where Linux can see use: Old hardware where Windows wont run. You also have another aspect of this which is your basically trashing 32 bit app support if you do not include 32 bit libraries, or, providing a thunk between 32 bit apps and 64 bit libraries.
Even if 32 bit libraries are not built, you should be able to run a 32 bit app by compiling the libraries yourself, so distros could at least allow people to build 32 bit libraries easily from source packages, (with the benefit of automatically building all dependancies).
Another area this will create problems is with VMs on even recent hardware, Intel chips up to just a year or two ago didnt include VT-x or a Ring 2, which means that virtualization of 64 bit OSs will not work.
I don't even know what all of those are.
That is easy to explain, phantomfive:
All this are little bugs, usually black, with lots of golden legs sitting on the motherboard.
Some of them even have arms as you can see, some are sparcling and the others are of greek origin, like the pentium but I wonder where the monon, and duon etc. are. I guess the alpha is also a greek and the i686 has an extraordinary high IQ, or had ... I believe he is out of service now.
Regarding the 'motherboard' ... I'm not sure if you are old enough to get explained that yet. Considering that there are sometimes daughterboards sitting in strange positions on top of the motherboard ...
Hope that helped!
P.S. the Athlon is a long forgotten Spartan athlete. He always wanted to participate in Pankration at the Olympic games. But alas, Spartians were prohibited to participate in that discipline. (Something with killer instinct or something) So he finally decided to dress like a girl. Seems he did not know that women folk is not allowed at Olympic games either. Sad fate. Really sad.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
That might have been true, except for the gift the Republicans received when Hillary bought the Democratic nomination.
The only thing that changed since Hillary won the Democratic nomination is Trump's sinking poll numbers, especially in the battleground states.
At least for intel Archs, you can install a 32 Bit OS on a computer with a 64 bit capable cpu.
Which doesn't mean squat. We're talking Q.A. here.
The goal is to determine whether the code will work on a real 32-bit architecture, not a 64-bit architecture running in 32-bit emulation mode. The two have differences. If you run the tests on something other than the real target you have no clue whether it will work on the real thing.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
It's hard to believe that testing 32-bit really doubles the testing effort, but whatever.
So, are you volunteering for this effort? If one is actually doing proper testing (rather than "did it compile"?) every test has to be done again on each additional platform so that the release actually is verified as working. Sure, most of the time it just works, but there are always edge cases.
20 bits ought to be enough for anybody!
2^20 = 1MB address space, yielding 640KB of RAM.
and yes, /me knows he probably didn't say it, and/or didn't mean it the way it was interpreted.
Because the founding fathers dream of not having a partisan democracy is dead.
You know, you can head over to newegg or wherever, and price together a very cheap low end machine (like whatever the cheapest AMD APU is) that would still run circles around a 2006 era Core Duo (last 32-bit only that I can think of). There really is no reason to keep running one of those old processors. Even the lowest of the low end new laptops would be better than a Macbook from 2006.
If you're about to complain about the cost, keep in mind that even internet access and power requirements for an ancient machine would quickly cover the cost of a low end replacement.
No, I think it's time to move on.
I don't see the problem here. While it may be tedious, it's not technically difficult to build your own 32-bit packages from source, at least most of the time - the (64-bit) package maintainers have done most of the hard work already, identifying dependencies and whatnot. You may occasionally have to do some troubleshooting, especially as time goes forward - but is this sort of thing where the Linux community really shines.
Heck, you might even learn something.
#DeleteChrome
Second, it's funny how the democrats complain about money in politics yet they are the biggest recipients from unions, businesses, and now international entities.
Funny how much Republican money is sitting on the sidelines because Trump is the nominee.
Devuan's only support ATM is x86,x86_64, arm, and aarch64. Support them and make clear that 32 bit support is important to you.
I'm sure some wannabe developers will start making 64 bit assumptions in their C/C++ code, but other than that there is no reason you can't keep using it. I still have lots of systems running x86 code (many predating x86_64, and a number of others without enough memory capacity to validate a switch to x86_64 userspace.)
Furthermore, if you don't need binary compatibility, you should look into musl-libc.org, it is a complete reimplementation of the linux libc with better features, a shorter compile time, and support back to i486 (with the ability to compile simple c programs using compilers as old as gcc 2.95.3 and 2.7.x, although both need patches for the musl trinary to work with autoconf and company.) The only missing features in it are sunrpc and some of the old charset support (it is iso9660/utf-8 clean, latter assumed to provide most coverage for today's systems.) There are a number of musl based distros now, including a gentoo profile that can build a system using musl (individual ebuilds may fail obviously, but the support is there for the majority of the system, gcc-6.1.0 supports musl out of the box, and llvm/clang/libc++ can provide an alternative toolchain, although gentoo has too many incumbent gcc-reliant ebuilds to move to a clang-only system so far (although you should be able to do it manually with CC/CXX/CFLAGS/CXXFLAGS/LDFLAGS, as I have in the past.)
The popular linux distros have already lost the faith of many of us with systemd and other questionable development decisions. One more disappointing choice like this doesn't matter in the big picture because it has been time to migrate for a while, they have just taken the choice of putting the migration off for another version out of your hands if you still run x86 hardware.
There are actually several new and new-ish 32 bit embedded x86 processors. Or systems where it makes more sense to use 32 bit Windows instead of 64 bit. Low-cost tablets, for instance, often use Atom chips that don't even support more than one or two gigs of RAM. They run Win10 okay, and browsing and casual games are fine on 'em, but a 64 bit OS would be a waste.
We at least need enough 32-bit packages available in the 64-bit distro (whether by dpkg --add-architecture i386, or by installing "lib32" packages like we used to do) to install and run Wine.
You see, to run Win32 programs, your Wine emulator binary needs to be a 32-bit Linux/ELF application. I suppose it could emulate cross-architecture, but wine prides itself on *not* emulating native code generation (for performance). Otherwise it would be as slow as a software virtualization solution like Bochs or (non-KVM) qemu.
Wine, in turn, depends on a number of system libraries for core services. It then implements common Windows APIs "in terms of" available platform libraries. Direct3D in terms of OpenGL; DirectSound in terms of libasound2 or libpulse; etc. These libraries, linked into a 32-bit binary, must also be 32-bit.
I agree that there's no point in testing 32-bit *hardware* any longer, but I hope they continue to ship 32-bit *builds* (even if they stop making 32-bit installation CDs). There's just too much software on the Win32 platform that needs to run on Linux (desktop OR server; see game servers) to abandon this segment of the market.
I have a Compaq Preesario V6000 released in 2006, which is also a 32bit medium range machine, designed for "Windows xp".
It runs Windows 10 reasonably, with only a hiccup or two now and then (needs more RAM). Most websites run perfectly fine on it, and can be used for banking, browsing (mostly, it's a bit choppy on HTML5 video - Flash video seems to have fewer problems). I would imagine if it was a high-end laptop, 17 years old shouldn't be an issue.
So why would someone who just does that stop using it?
I bet he's a systemd fan too, the bastard.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Democrats like to obstreperously disagree. That way they can say a lot without making a point or actually having an idea that isn't nearly identical to the Republicans.
What's there to "find"? You can kick-off a 32-bit VM under any hypervisor — both on the cloud or on your own desktop. You can automate the VM-creation and tear-down on your build-farm quite easily.
I too strongly prefer to have a system, where size_t is equal to off_t (so you could mmap an entire file and not worry about it), but that is not "free". 64-bit pointers are, obviously, twice-wider than 32-bit ones, so "hairy" structures — with lots of pointers in them — nearly double in size. If none of your processes require more than 4Gb of virtual memory, there is no reason — other than the developers' laziness — to go 64-bit.
Whether it is an OS embedded inside a router or a point-of-sale machine, or even a single-user web-and-email desktop, 32-bit is perfectly sufficient and the overhead of 64-bit not justified.
And that laziness is what is keeping us back... Over the last 18 years, according to Moore's law, our computers have become at least 2^12 times more powerful. Now ask yourself, is the user-experience — however you choose to measure it — 4096 times better than it was in 1998? And, if it is not, where did the gains in hardware go?
By refusing to setup/use tens or even hundreds of 32-bit test-systems, developers force thousands and millions of users to upgrade. That is not a fair trade-off.
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
I'm in the same boat with my Dell, but it is 9 years old. I use it for business trips because all I ever have time for is responding to email, maybe open some spreadsheets. Everything else I need I can get from my phone. I like the old Dell because it has a ridiculous battery life since it is just a Core Duo 1.2 GHz with a battery nearly half the laptop's weight.
I once took an excursion to Reddit, and later HN. Unlimited up/down voting sucks when dealing with a hive-mind.
i386 is a very old instruction set that nobody uses any more. i686 is the newer ia-32 architecture that started with the Pentium Pro around 1995. I believe that will still be supported. Maybe not by Canonical but who cares about them, they're corporate pinheads anyway.
I have a Compaq Preesario V6000 released in 2006, which is also a 32bit medium range machine, designed for "Windows xp".
It runs Windows 10 reasonably, with only a hiccup or two now and then (needs more RAM). Most websites run perfectly fine on it, and can be used for banking, browsing (mostly, it's a bit choppy on HTML5 video - Flash video seems to have fewer problems). I would imagine if it was a high-end laptop, 17 years old shouldn't be an issue.
So why would someone who just does that stop using it?
Nobody's telling you to stop using it. The question is if distro maintainers want to do the work to provide full support to computers that are AT LEAST 17 years old. The answer is, the cutting edge distros don't, but distros focused on stability like CentOS probably will.
Most definitely!
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
There are a bunch of desktop distributions that will no longer do 32 bit builds. Makes sense.
No effect on kernel or disties for 32 bit systems/embedded/etc.
... how much benefit there will truly be in dropping support for 32 bit arch. Essentially, people are saying "it's hard, and we don't want to keep doing it." Ok, fair enough, but then why not just say "we're going to stop supporting audio drivers and software, because it's hard and we don't want to keep doing it." Or fill in any other component or function. The fact is, there is clearly quite a number of people still using 32 bit, and apps still support it. As long as there is a need, and available apps, the decision to slice out a large section of the user base is an arbitrary one, at best.
Maybe if you're a developer working on this project, and you're getting burned out on your job, instead of pushing changes like this that will negatively affect the user base, you should just make some personal life changes. In other words, maybe it's not the software that needs to change, but rather, the people working on it.
Just a thought...
Said every QA engineer too. It more than doubles the efffort.
For bug fixes and changes unrelated to processor type it doubles the testing, generally because some sales executive doesn't understand the concept of risk-based testing, demands "fully tested products" and throws his weight around the C-suite.
For changes where processor type matters, it legitimately needs testing on both platforms. In this case engineering time is probably more than doubled because it's likely that two different fixes are needed.
When you consider automated testing, the test needs to be designed and coded to run in both places. When running, the 32 bits test runs will take longer than the 64 bit test runs. So in business terms (time), that will more than double the effort.
No reason to stop. If it does what you need, go ahead. I'm sure source-based distros like Gentoo will still be fine. Distros that focus on long term support like CentOS and Debian will probably still provide a 32-bit distro as well.
I would also like to point out that your 10-year-old laptop is having trouble now. Add another 7 years to that and you will be compounding those problems dramatically. I don't see any (desktop or laptop) computers around from 1999 that are terribly useful today. Some parts from a 15+ year old PC are hard to find nowadays (unless you have a huge stash or like risking your money on feebay.) Think IDE hard drives and DDR1 or SDRAM.
"Frequently wrong, never in doubt."
*Sigh* that ASSUMES the exploits where there to begin with. Something does not become less secure just because of its age.
But those are two more political parties... It's still partisan.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
Interestingly, Wikipedia says that all the models have 64-bit CPUs.
Ezekiel 23:20
My poor old Acer Netbook, 7 years old and going strong, isn't 64 bit, and runs Linux Mint very well.
My ZG5 is currently running Win XP, Fedora 24 and Ubuntu 16.04 Mate. I'n hesitant to try Windows 10 on an Atom N270 with only 1GB RAM.
Geology - it's not rocket science; it's rock science
RPM non-binary package:
noarch
Used for packages that aren't arch-specific, documentation, configuration, etc.
Sun/Oracle:
sparcv9 sparcv9v sparc sparc64 sparc64v sparcv8
sparc is sparc32 v7 abi (or should be... systems: ipx ss2, etc)
sparcv8 is v8+ abi (32 bit with some new instructions, ss4/5/10/20)
sparcv9/sparc64 is sun ultra+ systems (ultra 1 and above with 64 bit processors.)
sparcv9v is (I assume) Niagra chips and above, containing virtualization/containerization tech.
Hitachi SuperH:
sh4 sh4a sh sh3
Not sure what arch 'sh' is (sh2?3?)
sh3/4 were used in some routers and I think the Sega Saturn/Dreamcast/Naomi 1/2 consoles/arcade boards. Have never actually seen one outside a console in real life, although in japan at least there were apparently some routers using them as embedded processors running linux.
ARM:
aarch64 armv5tel armv6hl armv3l armv6l armv4b armv7hl armv4l armv7l armv5tejl
aarch64 is the 64 bit arm extensions. The rest are arm versions from 3 to 7 with different option flags. I think wikipedia has a comprehensive article on what they all mean. Lots of possible binary incompatibilities with arm binaries if you don't build to a specific instruction subset, which almost nobody ever did. v5->7 should I believe be forwards compatible. v6 and 7 definitely are.
Alpha:
alphapca56 alpha alphaev5 alphaev56 alphaev6 alphaev67
DEC's legacy shat all over by Compaq+HP. Better chip than IA64 if they had only produced them on newer processes and provided PC-prices entry level systems to keep developers engaged. China is supposedly producing homegrown knockoffs of these chips for fpu calculations in one of their supercomputers.
x86/x86_64:
geode amd64 i386 i486 pentium3 x86_64 i586 pentium4 i686 athlon ia32e
geode is amd's embedded x86, used in the original released OLPCs and various other embedded systems and devices. Not sure the exact x86 arch it is equivalent to (486->586, and maybe newer arch features)
ia32e I think is the x32 or x86_64 using 32 bit pointer ABI which allows the register file of x86_64 but only using 32 bit pointer references to keep memory usage low for applications that don't require more than 4 gigs of ram.
amd64 == x86_64
And the rest of those are Intel/AMD designations up to to SSE2 (P4) Not sure why they have that many different versions.
Itanic:
ia64 - Nuff said
IBM/Others PowerPC:
ppc64 ppciseries ppc64iseries ppcpseries ppc64p7 ppc64pseries ppc ppc8260 ppc32dy4 ppc8560
32 and 64 bit variants of PowerPC, dating from 90s era Macs to today.
IBM S390:
s390 s390x
Some sort of mainframe/large workstation systems I think. Not sure if the supported models are all PPC derived or not. I believe they run a different microcode layer on top of the cpus intended for mainframe use. Also run a hypervisor(or equivalent) above linux (and predating hypervisor capabilities in x86 by many years.)
Hope that helps! Check wikipedia for further info. They have rather comprehensive articles on all of these!
Well, in 2018, the 2006 MacBook will be 12 years old. 18.04 is an LTS release and will have 5 years of support and security updates. By the time there are no more security patches, the machine will be 17 years old and software exploits will be the least of the user's concerns if it is still his/her main machine.
I have a 2009 32 bit processor Sony Vaio P for which the best option I found so far is Linux Mint, which is based on Kubuntu. The form fator of this model was abandoned long ago, so I have no appropriate alternative in size and weight (no tablet is not good enough). By the time the aforementioned MakBook be 17 years old, my Sony Vaio P will be 14, yet I have to admit that my least concern will be software exploits.
Linux is for people who don't mind RTFM.
I think you have a partial valid point here about the "true" amount of effort.
Anyone here seen the OpenBSD rack of all architectures. (Hint: it's on the main page), on real bare metal hardware like an old SPARC 20 pizzabox? I don't hear them bitching about this problem, and I can still run the recent OS on surprisingly very old hardware at ridiculously good performances. Granted my use case deployments are different because it's the right tool for my particular need, but that's not the point.
So I'm not saying that it does involve SOME additional amount of effort, but I think the amount claimed may be exaggerated.
I think that we can kiss the country goodbye. A Hillary Presidency will be the end of the republic. It's on its last legs right now and cannot survive Bill's wife being President.
Well, it's been a great 200+ years while it lasted.
My poor old Acer Netbook, 7 years old and going strong, isn't 64 bit, and runs Linux Mint very well.
My ZG5 is currently running Win XP, Fedora 24 and Ubuntu 16.04 Mate. I'n hesitant to try Windows 10 on an Atom N270 with only 1GB RAM.
I bought the "upgrade" for my Acer Netbook, giving me a fantastic 2 GB of RAM --- but actually that makes streaming video, running LibreOffice, etc., no problem at all. I know there are Linux denigrators around here but really, when an OS gives you satisfactory performance on old and underpowered hardware, what's to complain about? A few hours of setup work? You're right, Windows 10 likely will not do so well on your ZG5 if it even runs at all.
A [Washington, ..., Lincoln, ..., Obama] Presidency will be the end of the republic.
FTFY
And you're going to assume they aren't based on the base evidence of the huge amount of exploits in just about any software that are discovered over time?
You are the one making the reaaaaallly bad assumption.
Assuming the hinges don't crack, the laptop doesn't get dropped, the power connector doesn't break, the RAM doesn't fail, there aren't any capacitors waiting to blow, and there aren't any hidden cold joints in a BGA socket somewhere, I guess you will have to find a new distro 7 years from now.
Most laptops don't come close to lasting 10 years. Desktops are a bit better, but most of them have been 64-bit since 2006 or so. I don't think it's worth wasting a free software project's time and money to support such a fringe case. I'm sure there will be a demand for 32-bit distros in 2023. You will probably be able to use Gentoo, CentOS, Debian, one of the BSDs, or else some enterprising people will create a niche distribution to fill that gap in the market. You will be fine.
"Frequently wrong, never in doubt."
Just upgrade already, why are you purposely trying to extend the life of an old piece of garbage that most likely consume 10x more power than a new PC of much better performances today... Even if sub $300 PC/Laptop would probably perform better than a nearly 10 year old PC still stuck on 32bit.
Pinch $120 out to your diamond-pressure level ass and upgrade to something built in the last 5 years.
Here is their list. Looks like they've finally given up on vax.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
No, it means that you've got 5 years before the final 32-bit version of Ubuntu goes out of support (and probably another 5 years after that if you switch to Centos).
And you're going to assume they aren't based on the base evidence of the huge amount of exploits in just about any software that are discovered over time?
You are the one making the reaaaaallly bad assumption.
If Linus would have designed linux as a micro-kernel architecture operating system security could have been enhanced out of the gate and even if an exploit is missed the sandbox architecture could limit its effects.
The only reason why I install 32-bit stuff on my Linux machine is that it is needed when compiling VirtualBox from source code.
I didn't realize Athlon had such a tough life. I would have given him more support!
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
What show-stopping problem for a 2006 MacBook is present in 18.04 but fixed in 18.10?
How can anyone honestly attempt to answer this question in 2016, when the release under development is still currently 16.10, and 18.04 won't be receiving its first patch release marking it as stable for more than another two years?
Restating the obvious since nineteen aught five.
QUESTION: What's wrong with running 18.04 until the hardware dies?
ANSWER: No security updates, and no bugfixes, and no support. That's what's wrong.
Except for the fact that abandoning 32-bit software also abandons all the older 32-bit hardware that is still functional.
Perhaps the solution is to keep backporting security and bugfixes to their last 32-bit release. That should be less of a burden that spinning an entire distro.
and:
DES hasn't changed, but the amount of computational power attackers can bring to bear has.
... but they'll do nothing but die when a bomber drops its weaponry inside the walls.
Or to put it a different way: archers manning a castle's walls were a decent defense against melee soldiers
I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of Intel Atom netbooks suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened.
AKA, my netbook :(
Full subject of "Terrible headline. DESKTOP DISTRIBUTIONS letting go" attempted. Failed - too long.
Fuck /.'s limited subject length.
What's wrong with running 18.04 until the hardware dies?
I've never got Ubuntu to install successfully on the MacBook. Mint Linux install fine.
Which goes back to the original question:
If Ubuntu 18.10 is 64-bit only, is that a problem?
You don't need to reply to every comment, you know. If you don't understand the question or have anything useful to add, you can just sit there quietly.
My Acer laptop from 2006 has a single (32-bit, of course) core with 2 GB RAM, and still plays most video just fine. I fire it up every few weeks to see whether it still runs. So far, it always has.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
Thanks Hillary!
I have the best Linux distros. Everybody always tells me I have the best Linux distros.
use of 3 letters goes a long way here for those who know most ARM ports are 32-bit. Those 3 letters are "x", "8", "6".
Like this: Linux Letting Go: 32-bit x86 Builds On the Way Out
was that so difficult?
Aw, we don't want to do this because it takes time and it's hard.
JOIN THE CLUB.
If Ubuntu 18.10 is 64-bit only, is that a problem?
You don't need to reply to every comment, you know. If you don't understand the question or have anything useful to add, you can just sit there quietly.
Let me rephrase this: A 64-bit operating system does not run on a 32-bit processor.
Tried 64 bit Ubuntu on my cheap/disposable AMD A4 travel laptop, it worked but found it stressed the poor thing almost as much as Win 10 did. I tried a 32 bit Linux (which should be less stressing) only to find the 32 bit Linux didn't support several hardware functions (WiFi for example.) It would seem that 32 bit Linux is already depreciated...
How can anyone honestly attempt to answer this question in 2016, when the release under development is still currently 16.10, and 18.04 won't be receiving its first patch release marking it as stable for more than another two years?
It's a rhetorical question. Especially since I have a 32-bit processor that can't run a 64-bit operating system. Not the same as running a 32-bit operating system on a 64-bit processor.
I guess I'm stuck using Windows 10 (32-bit) on my vintage 2006 MacBook (Intel Duo Core 32-bit processor).
There are many Linux distributions, some will certainly continue building 32 bit distributions for a long time to come.
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
It's becoming more clear every day how the major Linux distributions have all been drinking the same cool-aid. If you think killing 32bit is no big deal you don't use it nor care to understand.
CentOS 7 for example doesn't come with 32Bit, it had to be created by the community and was / is to a degree, still a mess. Like, Steam. You know, people do really use Linux for gaming. Their rather arrogant response is to
push Fedora for desktop users. Fedora is a moving freaking target like Ubuntu - it's not coming anywhere near any system of mine.
I could list off more but in the end I suspect like everything else Ubuntu/Red Hate are killing, it won't matter. Their shills are everywhere.
There are several modern computers (e.g. Intel Compute Stick) with only 1GB of RAM. And this is not enough for a x64 OS.
Statistically, bugs happen per N lines of code. Given a large N, you will have a substantial number of bugs, of which some subset are security issues. Unless you have some mathematical proof showing the code is secure, we'll use statistics to make accurate but imprecise assumptions.
Old Intel Atom processors won't run 64-bit code. My firewall/gateway machine is running an nice but old nano-ITX motherboard with such a processor. I had to download debian's 386 build to get it to work. So, I hope debian at least keeps the 386 build for a while.
—G
About the only chance someone not a Democrat or Republican has of being elected President is if both the major party candidates die about a week before the election - and even then, it's iffy; there will be a large number of sentimental/stupid votes.
Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
I had 3 or 4 ... 8 bit computers. But haven't had one around for more than 25 years. For a while I had a few 16 bit machines (I think I might have one still around). I have an old 32 bit machine. Haven't turned it on in at least 7-8 years. It was odd going to 64 bits, and at the time there were people who were waffling on whether anyone should switch to 64 bit machines. But its been 64 bit for at lest 7 years now. It will likely be at least another 10 or maybe 15 before anyone says 128 bit (that is pure speculation, but its my opinion that each time you double the number of bits, the longevity of that number of bits also doubles). So 2016 + 15 will be 2031 before we go to 128 bits (more or less). 64 bit memory can address 16777216 terabytes of ram, and can have 16777216 terabytes of instructions. You don't need that many instructions, you won't need that much ram (16777216 terabytes should be enough for anyone), so I think we will be at 64 bits for a while.
Hillary has sold uranium to the Russians and military communications secrets to the Chinese. The risk of a Hillary presidency is the military defeat of the U.S. and the accompanying millions of dead Americans.
Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
Donald Trump only has something like 20% odds, yet he'll probably get more than 1/3 of the popular vote. I say if you don't like Hillary, "throw your vote away" on a third party and not someone who has a 9-year-old's solution to immigration and runs a campaign targeting Archie Bunker.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
Then there's NetBSD! LOL
It can run on the Antikythera mechanism....
32-bit posix dates use Jan 1, 1970 as the zero point. The maximum range is...
-2^31 seconds to
(2^31) - 1 seconds
from Jan 1, 1970, 0000 hr
Try the following short bash script
#!/bin/bash
date --date="@2147483647"
date --date="@2147483648"
date --date="@-2147483649"
date --date="@-2147483648"
On a 32-bit linux system (real or VM), you get...
Mon Jan 18 22:14:07 EST 2038
date: invalid date '@2147483648'
date: invalid date '@-2147483649'
Fri Dec 13 15:45:52 EST 1901
If you're a bank amortizing 25-year mortgages, you're already running into problems on a 32-bit linux. On a 64-bit system you'll get...
Mon Jan 18 22:14:07 EST 2038
Mon Jan 18 22:14:08 EST 2038
Fri Dec 13 15:45:51 EST 1901
Fri Dec 13 15:45:52 EST 1901
The wraparound date for 64-bit time_t is 15:30:08 on Sunday, 4 December 292,277,026,596 by which time I don't expect to be around.
I'm not repeating myself
I'm an X window user; I'm an ex-Windows user
It's becoming more clear every day how the major Linux distributions have all been drinking the same cool-aid.
Seems so, but as of now 32 bit Linux has 22 years left (year 2038). I heard that may be fixed but AFAIK nothing yet. In any case for 32 bit I would use NetBSD or OpenBSD since the 2038 issue does not exist for them. I would like to know what "major dist" officially includes :) One distro I consider major just released a 32 bit version.
I'm using a 10 year old laptop right now, you insensitive clod.
Of course, I've had to replace a few components.
I've replaced the keyboard 3 times, the harddrive 5 times, the ram at least once, the CD drive at least twice, the upper case body 3 times, the lower case body 4 times, and this is the second screen. Oh, and I replaced the motherboard last year.
The soul, however, is the same XP that it has run since I the day after I bought it.
You are on record with stuff like "Trump doesn't have the numbers to win the election, especially if he's getting less than 50% of the Republican vote", then later (once he started getting more than 50% of the Republican vote), "Trump will have less than 51% of the delegates to win the nomination outright" and "the only reason he's winning more than 50% of the vote... is that his his opponents are dropping out. He has yet to win an election by landslide."
Since then, of course, he's won elections by a landslide, and has way more than 51% of the delegates.
So previously, you had some set of reasons why Trump couldn't win. Then, when those were no longer true, you picked a different set of reasons why Trump couldn't win.
I don't know who will win. But I know that you aren't applying any kind of constant standard to this- you chose your conclusion and now are selectively remembering things that back that conclusion.
No they didn't. RHEL did, and since CentOS is more or less just a rebuild of the RHEL sources the base CentOS 7 distribution is also 64 bit only.
But CentOS has also has an AltArch distribution for i386. It's right there on the download page if you want it.
I'm not heartbroken by the end of 32-bit distros in a year or two, though I do still run a few 32-bit bootable Linux images on old systems being used as remote desktop terminals.
That said, at least in the Intel-compatible world just about any x64 hardware out there will also run i386 32-bit just fine. You probably don't even have to take out the extra non-usable RAM though I confess I've never tried. Hardware to test a 32-bit build should be no harder to come by than hardware to test an x64 build.
fencepost
just a little off
I assume the computer name is Theseus.
RETURN without GOSUB in line 1050
Gary Johnson actually governed a state for a while. I think he's better than Trump.
There's nothing childish about suggesting we have a functioning border, you (((rootless cosmopolitan))).
Modern technology allowed more foreigners to enter Britain in 2015 than every year between 1066 and 1950 inclusive.
Are you willing to concede that the native Amerindians were a bunch of nasty xenophobes for opposing all those friendly European immigrants? They were opposing the almighty market and the neoliberal god Mammon... to send them upon a trail of tears was a great kindness.
May death alight upon your wretched skull with the utmost haste.
Trump 2016.
of course, the inevitable turn to the political from a debate about linux. What's next? systemd?
hahahahahahahhah
My Asus Transformer Book Tablet/Convertible sports a modern fast and low power 64 bit Atom processor but it runs the 32 bit version of Windows 10. When I bought it, it had 32 bit Windows 8.1 installed. It runs 32 bits because it only has 2GB of RAM so there's no real reason to run 64.
Even the worst of them run longer than the support life of their intended software.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
Now might be a good time to upgrade to at least a T7200 if not put in a 14" T61 board. Did the latter with a T60p, adding a SSD, 8gb of memory, and a T9500 without regrets.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
I heard that systemd is getting backported to 8 bit CPUs because with so few bits, one really needs proper daemon management.
Roflmao
Real Linux users compile their entire system from source. Who needs a distro?
Translation: Waah! My 10 year old laptop won't be able to run the latest Ubuntu in 3 years! This is unfair!
18.04 will be a LTS version, supported with security patches until 2023.
What distro do you currently have loaded on your 32-bit 10 year old MacBook? Lets find out exactly when you are going to lose support. I would be shocked if whatever distro you are using will have no updates for you before your machine is totally dead and you are using a newer box.
I'm sad you didn't get more Funny mods for Laptop of Theseus lol
> *Sigh* that ASSUMES the exploits where there to begin with.
This is a good assumption. It has been true of 100% of operating systems so far, right?
> Something does not become less secure just because of its age.
If it is in the 0% of software with no flaws, this is true. But, it is 0%.
There are several candidates, but a vote for a non-Democrat or non-Republican must be cast from a position of protest, principle, or pragmatism. Protest says that you are not ok with any either of the mainstream candidates, principle says that you are seeking a mostly-perfect solution and will not compromise, and pragmatism says something like "be more like this guy, and you'll have my vote".
A third party candidate cannot currently win. If you are voting based on the idea of "if my vote was the deciding one, who should it be?", you must choose one of the two major parties. I believe that most people vote this way, based on the "I have only two choices" meme I see pretty much everywhere.
Our system is built to be terrible with three parties. First, we have a plurality system at almost every state, so that a candidate with 15% of the vote everywhere will round those out and deliver effectively zero electoral votes. Second, everyone is afraid of a popular conservative candidate spoiling for Democrats, and a popular liberal candidate spoiling for Republicans- this is the exact opposite of what voting SHOULD do. Instant runoff, multiple choice, and Condorcet all seek to address this second point, but the two groups with power have no motivation to change this, as it will only hurt them as organizations. Thirdly and finally, should a third party candidate be popular enough to carry a couple key states (or say Jill Stein turns some blue states green, and simultaneously Gary Johnson turns some red states yellow), then no candidate will have a majority of electoral votes. In this case, the House of Representatives just chooses a candidate. A third party candidate with 49% of the electoral votes could be passed over by a Congress that installs the third place dude.
Any of these rules could be changed to fix the electoral system and allow meaningful third party choice. But until then, a vote for a third party candidate is protest, principle, or pragmatism, and it will never be a vote for a winning candidate.
for every individual. Nike, originally known as Blue Ribbon Sports, was founded by university of Oregon track athlete Philip Knight and his coach Bill Bowerman on January 25, 1964. Nike produces a wide range of sports equipments and his famous products were track running shoes. Where you can take active part in any sports activities with a pair of Nike shoes. Well, Nike is a part of wide ranges of sports activities like baseball, ice hockey, tennis, Association football, lacrosse, basketball and cricket. Well Nike gives inspiration to its fans and viewers. Nike lovers have the freedom to choice amongst the brands appeal them. To prove it value of being a high quality brand there are various benefits where every individual love the creativity of Nike. Nike is created with greater technology such as: synthetic and mesh upper, phyton, midsole with encapsulated air-sole unit for cushioning, rubber outsole with herringbone pattern for traction and durail, Comfort technology such as follows: light weight, super responsive performance cushioning, incredibly thin, Nike zoom brings the foot closer to the ground for optimum feel and aggressive maneuverability nike tn pas cher .
OpenBSD makes new releases every 6 months? Didn't know that...
I mostly agree with everything you wrote, but I would add that a vote for a third party candidate makes it easier for that party to get ballot access in the next election. The more elections a third party is in, the more likely the changes you describe are to happen. We will never have a change to the system if we keep voting for the two entrenched parties.
Personally - and I'm not sure how you'd classify this, perhaps principle, I'm more likely to stay home than vote for Trump or Clinton. They are both wrong for this country in different ways and I'm not sure who would be worse, though Trump is certainly more of a wild card. But essentially they both play for the same team, so I don't really think it matters too much who wins. At the end of the day, the people paying for the $10,000 plate dinners still run the show - and they really don't care much about the R or the D. Given that there are two other choices, if I actually go to the polls, I'll pull a lever for one of them. I like libertarians (of the less wacky variety) in general - I'd probably even describe myself as one except where the ideology runs into pragmatism... like everywhere :) But even Stein is preferable to the mainstream candidates.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
Yes but there are plenty of things based on 32 bit ARM CPUs being sold in 2016.
You may want to plug some shiny thing that doesn't exist yet into it but have no driver - so then it would be time to give up on Ubuntu or SUSE to go with Debian, Slackware, centos, etc, etc or FreeBSD to use it.
With respect she's not really very different to her husband and the sky didn't completely fall in when he was running the place. Trump on the other hand doesn't seem to understand what a Republic actually is and seems to want to be King, so he's unlikely to get much of the party behind him especially the very conservative types. If he does get in expect a lot of shouting and not much getting done.
Remember that Obama couldn't close GITMO and that the health plan had to be watered down a lot to pass. The President does not wield absolute power and there is plenty to stop a Hillary Presidency being the end of the republic - once again probably a lot of shouting and nothing extreme getting done.
So? Reagan sold a lot of stuff to Iran and even Hezbolla.
"Treason doth never prosper, what's the reason? For if it prosper, none dare call it Treason."
Hey slashdotters - go upstairs and ask your mother why she's not going to vote for Trump to get an idea of why people are saying he can't win.
You don't want to ask? The short story is the conservative types that make up a lot of the Republican party and do all the fetching and carrying at election times think he is a sleazy slimeball and not a "real" Republican. The longer story is that he's said a lot of stuff that people are taking personally. Completely angering the conventional Christian voters, the Hispanic voters and woman of all ideologies (especially the conservative ones) pokes a bit of a hole in his chances and adds up to a lot of people that would rather not turn up than vote for either Trump or Clinton.
Since Trump cannot rely on the rusted on Republican vote I doubt he's going to win unless not many people turn up to vote for Clinton.
"i386" is still the name that Debian and its derivatives (like Ubuntu) use for the 32-bit x86 platform, regardless of the specific chip. Debian actually dropped support for pre-686 CPUs a few months ago, and had required at least 586 for several years prior, but the overall architecture is still called "i386", because that's what it's always been called, and there's no real benefit (and lots of inconvenience) in changing it. Same reason why 64-bit x86 is called "amd64" even though Intel implements it too.
This Ubuntu proposal is about dropping 32-bit x86 entirely, not just certain old chips.
"This is the actual axe that George Washington used to cut down the cherry tree."
"I had to replace the handle... and the head. But it occupies the same space, intrinsically!"
Especially with the amount of effort required to carry that off at a naked Olympic games!
(Tap tap tap...) Now it says all the models have dual overhead cams, neon ground effects, hydraulics and LED spinners on the wheels!
> I'm more likely to stay home than vote for Trump or Clinton
That just means you don't give a fuck. If you skip the section that says "President of the United States" but vote the REST of the ballot, then that sends a message. Staying home just means you were high that day or whatever.
> But essentially they both play for the same team
I think Trump is enough of an outsider that he may not be able to have any say in legislation. I don't feel they are that similar. Most years I'd agree though.
> get an idea of why people are saying he can't win
> I doubt he's going to win unless not many people turn up to vote for Clinton
See, these are two different things. The top one is wrong. Trump can win. Anyone saying Trump can't win should have a lot of money on Hillary in the prediction markets- free money!
The bottom one is a much more reasonable statement. Certainly, Trump is not favored to win. But his odds aren't terrible. Personally, I find the "Trump has alienated a lot of Republicans" point to not be very compelling, because the Republican party has been casting Hillary as an archdemoness for over two decades. I think this will guarantee an above-average Republican turnout in ANY election she runs in. Meanwhile, Trump has record unpopularity (Clinton WOULD be the least unpopular candidate ever measured, except that Trump is in this same election), and that could motivate some normally unmotivated Democrats.
My real point is simple: this is an unprecedented election, so claiming that one candidate is totally fucked based on X Y Z doesn't seem very predictive.
If I had to put money on it, I'd put money on Trump. He's demonstrated a political resilience unseen, and seems to have a whole new rulebook he's playing by. But I don't have to put money on it, so I don't. My one personal belief is that the election *will not be close*. That is to say, I think either Trump OR Clinton will have a solid margin of victory. I think both are telling stories that make the other one out to be Very Scary, and while THAT is nothing new, people are putting a lot of faith in those narratives this year, and I think one will be a reasonably clear victor.
The top one is correct because "people are saying he can't win". Please READ the items you cut and paste.
Not really. Look up "carpetbagger" from years back or look at other places around the world today.
Lol, not disputing that you are correctly referencing a sentiment. I said why the sentiment was incorrect.
> Not really.
I think it's too early to say. If Trump had been smashed in the primary then we wouldn't be having this conversation. I didn't see a lot of Trump haters in, say, November, saying "Trump will dominate in the primaries, force everyone out of the race by early May, easily reach the 1237 bound delegates needed, get more primary votes than any Republican in history, but then lose to any Democrat because $REASON_ARRAY".
That's not to say he can't lose, or that $REASON_ARRAY isn't solid. But it IS to say that everyone talking about him getting blown generally has a totally shit record this election thus far. All the political prediction guys I normally follow got fucking SHRILL man. They all were predicting him getting blown out, then him having a ceiling, then a larger ceiling, then a contested convention, then some fucking arcane bullshit about secret Republican councils, and then they started talking about how he's gonna lose the general. Well, he could lose the general. But so far, taking anything out of their mouths and immediately betting on the opposite state would have been mad profit.
Well, he has played golf with his opponents husband on more than one occasion... how different can they really be?
And by different, I don't mean in effectiveness... it's hard to even say how effective Trump would be since he has zero track record. I mean in their worldview. There will be little change to any major policy.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
You are doubling size of typical data structures made up of ints and pointers, while RAM and especially CPU cache is a very finite resource. Why would you want to do that when modern hardware supports 32 bit software perfectly well?
He's not playing by their rules, or anybodies, or with little reference to reality, so he really pisses them off.
The rest of the world just looks on with cynical pity and says - "so an Atlantic City Gangster wants to cut out the middle man and be President, how is that really going to change much about the USA?" - they may be wrong but not by as much as we would hope. The line between casino boss and gangster may as well not be there for example which makes the populist angle with Trump especially weird. Why do people think someone who is likely to get them hurt if they can't pay a debt to him has their best interests in mind?
I mean, I'm with you on that point. The article cracked did ( http://www.cracked.com/blog/tr... ) was pretty informative, but the part that stuck out to me was: "People are not angry at Washington; they are totally over Washington. They don't feel Washington can do anything to make their lives better."
This level of distrust, derision and populist hatred was earned over the years. It did not come instantly, it did not come from Rush Limbaugh, it was not a top-down phenomena. To get candidate Trump, you have to EARN candidate Trump, with years of bullshit, weakness, and pandering. If you spend years promising some group that you are opposed or in favor of something, and you never actually press for the change you promised, you'll eventually lose that group. It doesn't even matter if the thing you promised is idiotic and impossible, if you keep promising it, you'll eventually be branded a panderer, whatever the word chosen to brand you is. To get president Trump, it is mostly the same formula, just expanded over more voters, and we'll see if only the Republicans feel this way soon enough.
I am worried that if Trump wins, the take-home message to most of the politicians will be "be bold and brash, appear independent". That's just one of the things Trump is doing to appeal to people, and I think he is doing it because Trump is inherently bold, brash, and independent- it isn't some poser bullshit, but nor is it relevant. The fact that people who feel disenfranchised are swarming to Trump is VERY IMPORTANT, and all the attempts to break his campaign down into tiny bite sized tactics that future operatives can employ on the field is doomed to failure. Trump will succeed or fail based on how much faith America has lost in its highly educated oligarchic leader-class (that it pretends doesn't exist, because class doesn't exist and everyone is equal). If Americans feel that only Donald Trump has their best interests in mind, that is not because Donald Trump is a High Wizard Of Illusion (though he appears to be!), it's because they stopped believing that their leaders are leading in the correct direction. That's not just a communication failure, it's also a failure of direction.
CentOS 6 is supported till 2020.
By then hopefully someone else will have made systemd secure and reliable or bitten the bullet and chucked it.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
> the OpenSUSE Chairman account says 32-bit support "doubles our testing burden (actually, more so, do you know how hard it is to find 32-bit hardware these days?).
WTF is "hard to find 32-bit hardware", dude? Nobody asks you to dig out an old 486 computer. Last time I checked, all x86-64 CPUs had full i386 support built-in.
but there rite thers so few 32 bit systems left in fact i dont own any. it may be a porblem for embedded systems but most of those run old versions of a os anyways.
If Trump were not running, Hillary's popularity would be the lowest of any nominee since they started recording polls. As he is, she's the second least popular - but not by a very large margin. Both parties have managed to pick candidates that most of the electorate regard as unelectable. The election is basically down to whether anyone can be bothered to turn up to vote for who they regard as the slightly lesser of two evils.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
VAX never got ELF support. I believe OpenBSD GC'd it when they removed all of the a.out-only architectures. The OpenBSD GNUstep port maintainer was the only one to ever test Objective-C on VAX and we fixed a couple of bugs as a result.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
If you really don't want to use more than 4GB of virtual address space, the X32 ABI lets you get all of these benefits in an ILP32 environment, so brings all of the performance benefits and none of the costs of x86-64.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
Reagan pushed that line HARD. “Government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem.”
A lot of P.R. money has been spent over the years pushing that line.
See that Reagan quote above as to why the horse has already bolted and Trump is just someone who took home the message. He's not a sign of things to come, he is that thing.
It's sad and pathetic that you literally can need multiarch on your Linux system just to run steam. The games usually are 64-bit (actually, they usually come with both 32- and 64-bit binaries) but Steam still isn't. It's amazing how incompetent Valve can actually be, and still lead the market.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I have the original Acer Aspire One and it cannot play fullscreen youtube, even at 480p. It just doesn't have enough CPU to pull it off.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
It will, however, be able to run 32-bit Windows 10. You know, the OS that gives life back to older hardware.
Oh how the world has turned upside down the last couple of years. Linux requiring new hardware, Microsoft products being something you only run if you can't afford anything better, Apple being as for from bankrupt as technically possible...
"Look, you have thousands of 32 bit only machines with 2 GB of memory. We support them with Windows 10 32 bit while Linux will drop their support"
This is how Linux could never be a credible player on corporate desktop. Some guy who has zero experience in the real World, real business scene propose something with corporate wannabe talk, everyone claps and says "Yea drop those old stinky CPU support".
One can't demand support for Macbook unless he/she donates several machines and money for this purpose to the distribution and if distribution agrees to support them.
I am seriously pissed off by these Starbucks Latte drinking, trendy types poisoning the Linux scene too but let's not forget Apple are the guys who shipped 32bit only machine with some weird EFI back in 2006. They always pick 2 generation old CPU and add some non standard weird firmware. You can't expect support from Linux or BSD guys, they need access to real hardware.
Windows is another whole matter. For one, the primary reason why those low-cost tablets run Windows x86 is because they have 32 bit UEFI, and Windows x64 does not support booting from that.
Then there is the issue of disk space, which is already tight. Turning such a device on for the first time and letting it install updates will typically see only 16 GB of the 32 GB in popular models remaining free. With Windows x64, this would be much worse because it needs to have both 32 and 64 bit libraries present.
Finally, the little RAM is more of a problem on Windows. On Linux x86_64, almost all applications that a user typically runs are 64 bit. On Windows however, many programs are still 32 bit. This means both 32 and 64 bit libraries need to remain in memory all the time, filling it up quickly.
Mild nitpick, but important when discussing the removal of a platform target from a distributor:
IA32 is 32bit Itanium, not x86 compatible.
When will they start on the 128-bit linux? We haven't increased word size for a while
What about realtime Linux that can run on 32, 16 and maybe 8 bit cpus acting as micro controllers?
And some of their bosses don't just cash out for new machinery every decade.
My own boss' policy is to run the old junk until it breaks down.
Neither of us have 64 bit computers.
Neither of us even have computers new enough to do useful virtualization (ie run WinXP ina box).
Neither of us have money to buy new computers.
Exceeding the recommended torque is not recommended.
...for me. All I have left are 32-bit processors. My 64-bit ones have all failed and I really don't want to spend the money to replace them.
Which brings up a new point, why do 64-bit systems so failure prone when compared to 32-bit?
... that will continue 32bit support. I bet there are a few out there who are glad to jump to the occasion and get a larger userbase.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
Or to put it a different way: archers manning a castle's walls were a decent defense against melee soldiers ... but they'll do nothing but die when a bomber drops its weaponry inside the walls.
And yet CIV would have me believe that spear infantry dug into a mud hut city can destroy a main battle tank
Well in 2 years it will be nearly 10 years old!
Did you cry that XP didn't run on your 9 year old 486 in 2001 or Windows 95 won't run on your 9 year old 8086 IBM XT with 1 meg of ram? It happens. If you're on slashdot you are probably a geek who runs alternative OSes anyway. Run freebsd or get with the times?
Technology moves forward for the rest of us
http://saveie6.com/
Did you cry that XP didn't run on your 9 year old 486 in 2001 or Windows 95 won't run on your 9 year old 8086 IBM XT with 1 meg of ram?
I only had a used 486 computer for six months before I got a Pentium. DOS ran just fine on my IBM AT until I retired the system in 1997. This week I'm replacing the nine-year-old system that I built for Windows Vista in 2007.
Technology moves forward for the rest of us
Sometimes old technology keeps on working just fine.
Every fucking PC on sale today runs 32 bit code just fine.
What an idiot.
Watch this Heartland Institute video
Glad there are more people mentioning those systems. FreeBSD is nice. But those two operating systems beg to be mentioned after an article like this one.
That hardware is a decade old, and the LTS distributions will still give another 5 years of maintenance before pulling the plug.
Do you really expect to be using a 15 year old notebook and get current software? Really?
Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
Pinch $120 out to your diamond-pressure level ass and upgrade to something built in the last 5 years.
I paid $1200 for my MacBook, including the $200 premium to get a black case. It's still a useful machine. I'm not ready to pop out another diamond out of my ass for the newest and greatest MacBook.
True, 12 years old for a main machine is pretty old. For some secondary tasks no big deal though
Website Just Down For Me? Find out
Lemme rephrase. If Ubuntu 18.10 is 64-bit only, is that a problem? What show-stopping problem for a 2006 MacBook is present in 18.04 but fixed in 18.10?
You're missing the point if you only worry about 2006 MacBooks.
Making 18.10 64-bit-only means it will no longer be able to run most Windows applications on account that 32-bit Windows applications and installers can only be run by a 32-bit Wine process. Not just on old 32-bit-only MacBooks but on any Intel based computer. Also Wine is still receiving lots of updates to run new Windows applications so being stuck with the version shipped in 18.04 means getting behind the times pretty quick (unless they really keep updating the 32-bit Wine package long after 18.04 is in maintenance mode).
RHEL7 (and hence CentOS 7) has already dropped IA-32. RHEL6 will only be fully supported until 2020.
You can use 64-bit CPUs as stand-ins for pure 32-bit CPUs because of instruction set compatibility.
That's why the OpenSUSE Chairman sounds dumb, talking about how hard it is to get 32-bit hardware. In fact it's drop-dead easy to get 32-bit hardware.
You seem to have missed this point completely. Thanks for playing!
Corporate interests once again. At one time Linux was famous for keeping old systems alive when Microsoft made them obsolete. Now corporations are making Linux machines obsolete. What about all the 486 systems being developed today for industrial applications? Are corporations going to screw them over?
Great! I won't have to worry about a 32-bit distribution for my 64-bit Raspberry Pi any longer! What a relief!
You fucking idiots couldn't even be bothered to RTF summary could you? This is IA32, not ARM.
And let me rephrase what the previous poster asked: What exists in the absolute newest distribution 5 years from now that you must have on your then 17-year-old laptop, that isn't already in the final i386 distribution released 4.5 years from now? What critical functionality will you be missing that you can't spend $50 at that time to buy what is today a brand new laptop to get around it?
Just because they will cease i386 development in the future, doesn't mean that all previous releases somehow disappear or self-uninstall on that magic date.
I can just see Patrick Volkerding chuckling in the background over this discussion. Another 50 years of Slackware, right Patrick?
the better question:
If you are concerned with fixes and support, why are you running 12 year old hardware and have any expectation of receiving fixes and support?
When is the kernel letting go?
Ops, I shuld have usd the prevuwe but in.
You really think that the GOP is going to lose 70+ seats in the House?
Even the most blind sycophantic Democratic operators aren't predicting that one.
The Senate is up for grabs, and the White House likely stays with the Democrats, but the House will still firmly be in Republican hands.
Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
TFA seems to suggest that 32-bit compat is out too (by the suggestion to run 32-bit processes in containers / virtual machines).
If this is also the plan, they can take a long walk off a short pier. There are plenty of 32-bit images still out there (Steam games? Other stuff) which work just fine.
I've already ditched Ubuntu, going back to Debian simply because my system rotted through updates to the point where sound was a hit and miss affair. This just gives a solid reason not to care about Ubuntu any more. Pity, as it's "home-grown" for me )':
You know what else is a waste of resources...having a billion Linux distributions.
So, back when Linux was still "cool" to me, in Jr High, so around 1999 I remember arguing with friends and family about how awesome it was. One of the arguments I used to parrot all the time was "they build it for every machine ever! hardware capitalism gave up on can still be made viable because it installs on everything!" And you could do it without having to go full gentoo-kun. My first Linux was on an old PPC Mac, good ol Yellow Dog. How far Linux has come now that they are considering dropping a shitload of binaries for still widespread machines. It used to be for the people by the people. I guess it is not anymore. Maybe I've just been hanging out with Hancock too long.
Whinging about a 2006 Core Duo based notebook that was famous for having the fans fail and fry the GPU probably isn't the best case.
Whinging about hundreds of 2014 thin client using a 32-bit Intel Atom is a bit more of a concern.
Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
18.04 will be an LTS release that continues to get security updates until 2023. By then all the 32 bit hardware is likely to be dead. The downside is that you won't get some new features that will be in releases after 18.04.
The 32 bit version of Windows 10 will run with 1GB RAM but it won't be great - basically you'll be able to run one program at a time, and web browsers won't work well. That's the configuration of a lot of the small tablets on the market. The Anniversary Update will increase the official RAM requirement to 2GB, and the 64 bit version already requires 2GB.
> DOS ran just fine on my IBM AT until I retired the system in 1997
The last version of DOS came out in 1994. The IBM AT came out in 1984. That's a ten year difference. Its 2016, and the 2006 laptop still has current versions of Linux with a 32 bit OS on them, and will for years. What's the problem? If you retire the 2006 machine in 2019, you'll still have a current version of Linux even on the timelines discussed in the article.
Typically, people with really old computers don't pick up new shinies to plug in. In most cases, if they were interested in new shinies they'd be on a 64-bit system now, and Ubuntu will be supporting 32-bit systems for quite a few years to come.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
One take-home message if Trump wins is that outsiders are ineffective. Trump would get less done than Jimmy Carter.
Sanders was his counterpart in the Democratic race, and Sanders did a lot better than most people would have expected. I think the Brexit vote is more of the same.
In the very likely contingency that Clinton is elected, she's going to have to deliver something good to the Trump/Sanders constituencies, or they'll be back and in greater numbers.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
It's far too early to claim that the Republicans will keep the House. There's a distinct possibility of the Democrats winning very big indeed.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
Outsider? Trump was BORN on the inside! Daddies contacts in the Party helped get him to where he is today.
See also Reagan, he played the "outsider" card as well despite being also part of the Republican party machine (for less years than Trump has been though).
Which 10 inch netbook designed for 64 bit use should I buy to replace my 6 year old Dell Inspiron mini 1012?
If you want to keep your 32 bit POS up to date, just fork what you want to keep.
Politically, he's an outsider. If he was an insider a year ago, he's pretty much changed that. He's going to get worse cooperation than Obama.
As far as business goes, he's an insider, and a poster child for the Occupy movement's idea of the 1%. Personally, I think the establishment should have taken the Occupy movement more seriously, as it was a forerunner of Trump and Sanders. It was partly nihilistic, as it was mostly a rejection of things without a decent idea of what they wanted done about it, but that's Trump's constituency.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
Do Ubuntu or openSUSE even do any testing? Doesnt seem like it whenever I tried them. Gave up on crappy distros like that long ago
Looks like he is right I can't remember when I'd use x386 Linux last time if we didn't talk about some legacy servers All new installations are installed at x64 base and old ones can utilize old x386 distributions Maybe they can offer x386 images for a pay?! ))) Nah, there will be a shitstorm for that Otherwise most utilities and even control panels can use both x64 and x32 distributions, beginning from cPanel and ending with ServerSuit, so I don't mind.