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Entire Federal Government Exempt From Robocall Laws, FCC Rules (thehill.com)
An anonymous reader writes from a report via The Hill: Late Tuesday night, the Federal Communications Commission ruled that the entire federal government is exempt from consumer protection laws that limit unwanted robocalls. They ruled that the Telephone Consumer Protection Act of 1991 doesn't apply to the federal government, while the law does bar businesses from making numerous autodialed or prerecorded calls to a person's cellphone. The FCC did also make contractors working on behalf of the government exempt from the law as well. Earlier this year, a Supreme Court case found that the law does not apply to the government because of sovereign immunity. However, the FCC ruled that the government falls outside the law's definition of a "person." "Indeed, had Congress wanted to subject the federal government to the TCPA, it easily could have done so by defining 'person' to include the federal government," according to the ruling. Therefore, contractors hired by members of Congress can robocall individuals to participate in town halls, government researchers can place autodialed calls to the cellphones of survey respondents, and contractors can make similar calls to offer information about social security. The ruling does not apply to lawmakers who are using the calls for political campaigns.
It is exempt from everything. Who cares? The voters don't. So why should I dwell on it?
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
Basic espionage laws along with destruction of evidence and lying to the FBI (which is what Martha Stewart was jailed for)
Why should government be bound by any laws us little people have to follow?
Congress Often exempts them selves from Laws.
Insider trading, sexual harassment.
Law that cover them tend to be weakened.
The ruling does not apply to lawmakers who are using the calls for political campaigns.
Of course it doesn't, that behavior is already allowed.
Punitive laws and distraints primarily apply to Little People, as so recently demonstrated, again.
I get BS robocalls all the time and the IRS is gonna sue me. Fly-by-night robocall companies thumb their nose at the law and operate almost as if it didn't exist.
...to make a worthless law even more worthless.
Thank goodness my call blocker can block this crap! I like mine so much that I bought one as a gift for my parents.
The best method to discourage sales or political calls is to engage them in useless time consuming discussion about imaginary family or to request a moment to get a pen, and put the phone down for minutes then return with a pen, that mysteriously won't write, ramble on like a dementia afflicted individual. It takes a bit of time but can be quite amusing and I've found it to be very effective. Often informing the other side that you are recording the conversation for future entertainment purposes will discourage them as well.
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
With the Internet, Email, SMS .... why do you even need robocalls these days with so many areas to access information?
It's not a typo if you understood the meaning!
Nope: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...
most likely this will be outsourced to companies already with the facilities... mainly.. the telemarketers ... but guess what.. since they now have your number it will go on a million other lists :p and since its outsourced, different laws apply.
It's not a typo if you understood the meaning!
We are simply on our own.
If you can, get a caller ID machine that allows you to create a white list of numbers that can get through and send all others straight to the answering machine which you can later blacklist from getting in at all. Works for email, I whitelist my inbox in order to take care of old business before wrestling with new business going into the spam box.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
This is Lenny.
Have gnu, will travel.
Is this a peculiarly American problem? I don't think I've ever had a robo-call in my life in Australia, unless you count the ones that connect you to a call-centre operator a second or two after you answer. SMS spam, yes. Plenty of charities begging, some sales calls that got past the "do not call" register, and the occasional overseas scam call. But always human, never a recording.
Do any counties other than the US - oh, and presumably Canada, have this problem?
The rest of the proles can pay to avoid such treatment. Pay a fee to sign up for TSA PreCheck and you'll get pre-911 levels of security. Proof that the security checks are a sham. If you've lost your job or wife the day before and are planning on taking something out, the normal line might catch you. But since you paid for PreCheck a few years earlier, you'll make it through the security line.
As for politicians and board of directors, they never use public planes so they never go through airport security.
with sim cards being easy to buy, its not hard to change your number often.
I've gotton on some prank lists where I was getting nuissance calls.
I dropped that number. buh-BYE. end of story.
phone is not even the main channel of comms anymore. 20 yrs ago it was. today, everyone has a more perm email and phone numbers can, and do, change. I'm and older guy and even I am ok with throwing away phone numbers and restarting, should I get on a 'annoy this guy by calling and not taking no' list.
we can also have devices that whitelist and let ring thru. when I had a landline, I used modem callerid and a unix daemon. now, most people just have cell phone #'s and the app I use is 'mrnumber' (yeah, lol). it lets me put a select switch between calls and me.
this is what it comes to. like online ads, its a war and we users are left to fend for ourselves. at least we now have good tools to defend ourselves from.
the part about the gov granting itself more rights, yeah, well, that's fully expected given the trajectory the US (and ROW) is headed. sad but its not unexpected. and since we have no control over our gov's (no one, anywhere in the world, does) we are stuck with what they all grew into. this crap where the system rewards itself and cares nothing about the people, themselves.
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
Why?
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
Got a point there, but I rarely get a true robo call except for political ads, they are usually a robo dialer connecting for a human after you answer.
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
I don't. I mean, I take off my shoes, but do you get nudie scanned and freedom-groped? I'm hardly a congressperson.
"Old man yells at systemd"
I can't wait until my phone has a captcha. "To make this phone ring, please type in the answer to this question: Which Star Trek movie is the best?"
"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
Because emergency information? Duh.
With more and more people kicking out TVs (which is absolutely understandable), please tell me of a way to inform a large amount of people of a danger in their area. And note that you don't have a few thousand people standing by to call everyone, this ain't the 50s, phone operators are a thing of the past.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Just out of curiosity, what are the proper channels?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Does that mean they are exempt from the protection of it, too? I.e. are you allowed to robocall the government?
This is not meant as a joke, but as a serious question. But the answer I'm thinking of might lead to interesting results...
<sarcasm>Why can't they just post it to FB like everyone else these days?</sarcasm>
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
Mostly 'cause his rules make even LESS sense than the crap our government spits out . Ever read Deuteronomy 14 or Exodus 34? That shit makes copyright law looks sensible and sane, and our drug laws are very non-arbitrary in comparison.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
As for politicians and board of directors, they never use public planes so they never go through airport security.
Hate to mess up a good rant, but...:
United States Congressman Larry McDonald from Georgia, who at the time was also the second president of the conservative John Birch Society, was on the flight. Senator Jesse Helms of North Carolina, Senator Steve Symms of Idaho, and Representative Carroll Hubbard of Kentucky were aboard sister flight KAL 015, which flew 15 minutes behind KAL 007...
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
I guess that would be covered by Deuteronomy 14:3, the "don't eat abomination" part.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
First, this isn't about emergencies, it's about solicitations. Specifically, asking donors and other likely supporters to participate in "town halls" hosted by the politician.
More importantly, Congress is supposed to make the law, notbthe Obama administration. Congress duly passed the law saying government contractors may use robocalls "solely to collect a debt owed to or guaranteed by the United States." It further instructed the FCC publish detauled rules about that one exception that Congress allowed. Congress could have allowed other exceptions; they chose not to. The FCC has decided to pretend the actual law passed by Congress doesn't exist and the FCC gets to make the law.
And yes, that should be disallowed. But outlawing robocallers would be tossing the baby with the bathwater.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
The Chapta for me is something so useless and stupid.
http://www.telefony.binookle.pl/
I have no reason to believe that people are kicking out their TVs, It's merely that now there are far more things to hook up a TV to than a handful of broadcast networks. You can no longer just commandeer the Big 3 networks and get the word out. The S.A.M.E. system works for people with weather radios, but a lot more people have telephones than have weather radios, where alert-friendly radios or otherwise.
The Federal, State, and local governments have thus far limited their robocalling to bona-fide emergency situations. That is, within 24 hours you need to Do Something, and specifically, what you should do.
I can live with that. If you cannot, perhaps we can set you up on a Do Not Call/Let Them Perish list.
I'll join you if/when I start getting robocalls about politicians holding "town meetings" or government contractors peddling their own wares, but until that happens, I prefer to get critical information unobstructed.
Actually I already do get robocalls on "town meetings", but it's because political candidates and charities have an existing loophole in the Do Not Call list anyway. Although I'm pretty sure that legally they're supposed to be live calls.
the government is exempt when it is performing government business.
since much of that business is contracted out, it makes sense to also exempt those actually carrying it out.
this should not be a hard concept, even for an AC.
The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
So private prisons are exempt too? After all, they are government contractors.
Because it's pretty popular to use prisoners for outbound telesales calls...
While entrenched in British Common Law, the very notion of "soverreign immunity" is completely contradictory with the founding principles of the United States. The idea was whatever powers (sovereigns) were subject to limitations.
To now claim "sovereign immunity" is merely a complete about-face, and very likely corrupt.
Why do I have that feeling that you'd be one of those people who lament endlessly that government didn't tell them that a tornado was coming their way and they didn't get their house prepared...
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
I would have to drive about 10 hours from my current house in order to be within the area code associated with my phone number. Should I be receiving emergency information for places that are 10 hours away from me? Ooh, or maybe we should be required to register our phone numbers with the government when we move to a new area. That sounds fantastic.
Does this mean we can do robocalls TO members of the government? They are exempt.
Of course not. Laws apply to plebs, not to the ruling elite.
I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
It was already common sense. Nice to see we have a court ruling as proof.
And yes, that should be disallowed. But outlawing robocallers would be tossing the baby with the bathwater.
More and more people are adopting the technique of not answering any number they don't recognize. So if I set the phone to only ring those in my address book - its all good until someone goes to the trouble of mining my address book and spoofing numbers of my list.
In other words, the telephone system is so broken it is of very little use any more. It's my last line of communication, and since "do not call" has never worked, I've implemented "Do Not Answer".
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Why do I have that feeling that you'd be one of those people who lament endlessly that government didn't tell them that a tornado was coming their way and they didn't get their house prepared...
There are many ways to get weather notices. A NOAA radio is a great way. http://www.nws.noaa.gov/nwr/co...
You can get the info direct from them using either an app or a radio like this one: http://www.northerntool.com/sh...
This is a superior method to telephones, which in emergencies are often not accessible. Smartphones are cool and all, but I wouldn't trust my life to one.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Because emergency information? Duh.
They'll have to send a teletype if I don't pick up, which is usually the case when I don't recognize the number. I'm not really asking for a prohibition of robocalls. Nobody respects them anyway. I'll just look for a caller ID machine that can whitelist my contacts.
please tell me of a way to inform a large amount of people of a danger in their area
We used to have to those those big air raid sirens. Are they pulling all those out now?
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
Do people still jump and pick up the phone every time it rings? I know I don't. In fact, during meal time and when I'm asleep I put it on silent. I am unreachable by telephone during those times.
The more I think about it, robocalls aren't such a big deal. We have the tech to block them. So, I guess the issue is resolved.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
.
While it is always an easy target to go after the Federal government, I have had zero, absolutely zero, robo-calls from the Federal government in the past 5 years. Zero.
Yet, I have had countless political calls (calls from/about Trump seem to be horribly numerous this past month). I have had numerous calls from charities and also market research organizations. But not one from the Federal government.
So I have to wonder why is this a /. article at all? Oh yeah, it's the political season.
My TV doesn't do a good job of notifying me...
- when I'm at work. no live TV within view.
- when I'm driving to and from work. Radio? Not when I'm listening to streaming whatever.
Sadly, while my government will rely upon emergency service to justify the exemption, they will use it for every purpose. And if Hillary becomes President, be sure, certain beyond doubt, my government will use this to threaten and intimidate me, to justify its' expansion, to market itself to me, and to engage me solely to improve its surveillance of me and everyone connected to me.
It will not do any of this for my benefit, or to my advantage, because my government, when it exceed the minimum necessary functions a federal government should perform, does nothing that brings any benefit to me.
No. Beyond the minimum necessary functions, federal government is of no advantage or benefit to citizens. Everything beyond these minimum necessary functions should be performed by state or local government, or by the people.
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
The claim was that politicians and other important folks never take commercial flights, which I just demonstrated to be false, you dope.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
Around here, they commandeer the cable systems to deliver emergency notifications, and this then imposes these warnings on every channel. Even the ones you aren't subscribed to.
The government isn't going to let you escape their control until you make them.
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
"Also, government is allowed to lock up anybody who protests against trump deporting all muslims and non jewish circumcised men"
Please. Stop drooling.
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
And yes, I've a bit of a morbid fascination with air disasters, probably because flying gives me the willies and yet I do it anyhow.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
Do people actually still answer unknown phone numbers?
Hell, I have my phone set to not even ring for anyone not in my contacts list. Everyone else can leave a message, and I'll add them as a contact if I actually want to speak with them in the future.
Or more specifically:
The federal government is allowed to provide robocalls for incumbents who favor sending more tax revenues to the FCC.
In Europe (at least in Denmark) we still have sirens placed around the country that can be used to warn against impending air attack (the original use), chemical spill or other such nasty "Get to safety!" events.
Besides, they could just add a "State of Emergency" clause rather than allowing political solicitors to call you whenever.
-=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
I think it's not so much that they're being pulled, but more they're being disabled via lack of maintenance
I guess that would be covered by Deuteronomy 14:3, the "don't eat abomination" part.
So Canadian Geese are out then?
Time to offend someone
I guess I should start taking those "this is the IRS calling about case # 123556" threatening legal action. I'll pay my past due taxes immediately as requested via bitcoin and make sure "the situation totally unfolds" in a good way.
By your logic, I guess Paul Revere was an oppressive abuser of power, then.
FTFY
Whether it is ATF agents smuggling weapons to Mexican drug cartels, OTS employees helping banks back-date deposits to cover up insolvency, James Clapper lying before Congress, Lois Lerner destroying evidence pursuant to a Congressional investigation, etc. government employees operate beyond the rule of law.
By your logic, Paul Revere sounded the alarm throughout Massachusetts...
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
Congress DID make the law. The statute limits the prohibition to "persons." There's longstanding legal precedent that referring to a "person" does not include the Federal Government, unless specifically indicated. The statute makes no such indication. If Congress had wanted to include the Federal Government among the limited parties, it should have said so.
But outlawing robocallers would be tossing the baby with the bathwater.
The phrase "baby with the bathwater" assumes that there is something of precious value in with the valueless, even objectionable and polluted, surrounding media. That is an assumption that is not valid when it comes to "robocalling". Robocalling should be illegal, period, end of sentence. There is nothing of value that necessitates such abuse of the telephone system.
The closest to useful I've ever found these things are when my doctor's office uses one to call to remind me of an appointment. But since the robocall makes NO attempt to verify that it got the right number or that it is speaking to the patient involved. I consider that a clear violation of HIPAA laws. Suppose your husband answers the phone and hears a recording saying "this is a notice from XYZ clinic reminding Joan that she has an appointment with Doctor Schlub tomorrow at 2PM." "Dear, why are you seeing Doctor Schlub? I found him in the phone book, and he specializes in abortions ..."
But politicians already had exemptions for "political" calls, and charities, and other common abuses. And the FCC and FTC have done NOTHING to stop the ceaseless "consider this your last notice concerning the stimulus act" credit card fraud. And I'm getting veiled threats from an alarm system company that tells me how often homes like mine are broken into. Not in so many words, but clearly "wouldn't it be a shame for sumptin bad to happen to your beautiful house?"
One of the recent robocallers was from a petition drive seeking to make voting records private in the state of Oregon. That's so bad people cannot get access to your name or other information. The irony that they almost certainly used the voter records to create their caller list was not lost.
As for not answering "numbers I don't recognize", these robocallers can spoof any number they want to. I've gotten calls from "US Government", the state of Florida, and from my own phone number. I don't answer ANY calls anymore. If the message isn't compelling enough to get me to call back, too bad for you.
The stupid robocallers can detect answering machines, and they still leave a message saying "it's important we speak to you", leaving no callback number, and telling the answering machine to "press 1" to speak to a representative. No, there is nothing of value in robocalling, it's vile, disgusting and unnecessary.
My TV doesn't do a good job of notifying me... - when I'm at work. no live TV within view. - when I'm driving to and from work. Radio? Not when I'm listening to streaming whatever.
And my telephone does absolutely nothing to notify me in either situation. It can ring and ring and ring all it wants, there's nobody home in either case to hear it. Just my poor, overworked answering machine.
Our county crowed about how it has paid a company to do robocalling for emergency events. I called the company and told them to remove my number from that list, as the law allows me to do. They said they could not. The county decided to test the system. During the day. About 2PM. Do you know how many people aren't home at 2PM on a weekday, but have answering machines? The county found out -- a very large number of them called the emergency dispatch center when they got home to find out what the message meant. The center was overloaded that night. Instead of learning from that problem, they tested it again. At 2PM on a weekday. But they solved the problem by bringing in volunteers to deal with the flood of calls. "911 what's your emergency?" followed by a quick forward to a volunteer to deal with the complaints. This has now taught the public that getting a call like that is meaningless and it can be ignored. Good job, county.
...I've implemented "Do Not Answer".
Yep. If I don't know it, it goes to vmail. If they don't leave a vmail, it wasn't important.
His ignorance covered the whole earth like a blanket, and there was hardly a hole in it anywhere. - Mark Twain
Around here, they commandeer the cable systems to deliver emergency notifications, and this then imposes these warnings on every channel. Even the ones you aren't subscribed to.
If you aren't subscribed to it, how do you know the notification appears there? Hmm???
In fact, on modern systems, the notification appears on one channel (when it is a required cable system test and not just the local station) and your cable box is instructed remotely to tune to that channel. It is then supposed to be instructed to tune back when the test is over, but sometimes that fails. It seems to be a setting in the local system, because my HD Homerun system would switch to but not back from the notice until I called them and they contacted Comcast.
And IIRC, the law requires that channel to be available on a standard analog channel for people who don't have digital service in a system. That was CSPAN in our system. For a long time after Comcast went all-digital, the two analog channels you could still get on a standard old TV were the channel telling you that everything had moved to digital and you needed to call Comcast for a digital adapter, and CSPAN.
On Prism, it banners and sounds an alarm on the channel your watching. Change and the other channels also have the banner and alarm. People who have premium channels I don't tell me they get the warnings.
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
It has its place in emergency services. That it can be abused, and it is abused, is a given. Of course, it's far too tempting to use it to spam people. It's not any different than the ability to spew out thousands of emails per second. That can be used to give a lot of people important information in a flash, and it is abused to spam millions of people with crap.
What this needs is regulation. Limitation to specific messages only, with everything beyond warning of immediate threats requiring you to opt-in (NOT opt-out if you don't want it). And strict checks that ensure that it isn't abused to bother you with trivial rubbish.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Pretty much Canadian anything is out.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Up here in the Great White North it appears to be legal to robocall folks that the voting location has changed when it hasn't, or that the day is wrong etc etc on behalf of the ruling gov't. At least they make a noise in the beginning (after the election!) and slowly the whole thing is forgotten. US could learn a thing or two about successful corruption from us here!
Not sure how well the boy that's the current PM will work out..
Not sure how well the boy that's the current PM will work out..
He is his father's son.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
Not sure how well the boy that's the current PM will work out..
He is his father's son.
Oh, That is so not good...