90% Of Software Developers Work Outside Silicon Valley (qz.com)

An anonymous reader shares a Quartz report: So much code to write, so few developers. The chronic talent shortage afflicting Silicon Valley is now all over the US -- and the developers are too. A study by the software trade group The App Association analyzed government and private sector data to map where software developers live, and it identified 223,054 open positions around the country. It found that most developers live far away from the technology epicenter of Silicon Valley, and job openings follow a similar pattern. The upshot: Silicon Valley-style talent wars are moving away from tech hubs to smaller metro and even rural areas. Everywhere from rural Vermont to the middle of Montana is in need of programmers. "You can find places where you didn't expect software developers to be, but they are part of the local economy," said association spokesman Jonathan Godfrey in an interview. "It's pretty much everywhere."

Comments

It's Simple Economics

[Anonymous Coward]

Why would I pay $3000/month to share a ROOM with four other people making $120K when I can BUY a four bedroom house on one acre of land in the country for $825/month on half that salary anywhere between the Rocky and Appalachian mountain ranges? I'd take the boring enterprise 9-5 job at a no-name B2B service company any day of the week and enjoy my big house and yard with my kids any day of the week.

Re:It's Simple Economics

[ShanghaiBill]

Why would I pay $3000/month to share a ROOM with four other people

You don't. Even in the heart of SV, you can rent your own room for about $1000/month. You can find $700-$800 rooms in south San Jose, or Fremont. Or $500 in Gilroy, but the commute will eat up the savings. Go to Craigslist, click on "sby", then "rooms for rent".

Re:It's Simple Economics

[__aaclcg7560]

Why would I pay $3000/month to share a ROOM with four other people [...]

I pay $1477 for a 475-sqf studio apartment in San Jose, where I lived there by myself for 10+ years and make only $50K per year in IT support.

Re:It's Simple Economics

[SecurityGuy]

You don't. Even in the heart of SV, you can rent your own room for about $1000/month.

Or you can buy a decent house here for that. So am I surprised most software developers don't live in Silicon Valley? No. For the same reason I never moved there.

Aside from that, as mcmonkey quite correctly pointed out, most of everything is outside of Silicon Valley. Most of anything is outside of any given city.

Re:It's Simple Economics

[__aaclcg7560]

that's more than my mortgage for a 3000 sqf single family home.

When I first moved in 10+ years ago, the rent was $800 per month, the security deposit was $199 and I got a free microwave oven. What I pay in rent today is actually $300 below current market rate.

Re:It's Simple Economics

[snoig]

You haven't been to Denver lately.

Re:It's Simple Economics

[Anonymous Coward]

Why would I pay $3000/month to share a ROOM with four other people [...]

I pay $1477 for a 475-sqf studio apartment in San Jose, where I lived there by myself for 10+ years and make only $50K per year in IT support.

Meanwhile I pay less than that for a 4-bedroom house with a full basement, 2-car garage, and a half-acre yard less than an hour outside of Chicago, close to my own city's downtown and local Metra station. I also make at over 50% more than you here as well, sounds like you're getting ripped off considering the area.

Re:It's Simple Economics

[ProzacPatient]

I'm a remote developer for a mid-sized company doing a boring 9-5 enterprise job and I live in rural North Carolina where I pay $797/mo for a 2,200/sqft 3 bedroom house on an acre of land on a quiet private road. I also have great neighbors, everyone in town knows each other and I have reasonably fast internet with fiber coming within the next 5 years. You couldn't pay me enough to live in, or in any place like, overcrowded and overpriced Silicone Valley instead of where I do now.

Re:It's Simple Economics

[K. S. Kyosuke]

It's not. We bought a 2200 sqf three-story house for $6000 in cash. (Not in the US, before you ask).

Re:It's Simple Economics

[Pulzar]

I spend $975/month for 5 rooms, 10 minutes from downtown by metro, 20 minutes by bus or 15 minutes by bike to work at an enterprise software company, $15 to $25 for a taxi ride to as much nightlife as one could handle.

Yeah, but you get paid less, the taxes are high, you have fewer jobs to choose from, and the weather sucks for large chunks of the year. The closest major city is the most boring place in Canada, and Toronto is 5 hours away. Good skiing available nearby, at least. And a lot of strip clubs :).

Pros and cons to everything. I'd still take Montreal over SV, but there are many affordable places better (for techies) than both.

Re:It's Simple Economics

[__aaclcg7560]

[...] sounds like you're getting ripped off considering the area.

Unless like most people, I was born and raised here. I'm not yet ready to let the hipsters run me out of town.

Re:It's Simple Economics

[DigiShaman]

The cold hard factual brutal reality of the situation of SanFran is this: This is the city of the young college graduate working campus. It's the first place you go as a professional first to cut your teeth on prior to leaving to another state/city to get married, have children, and settle down. SanFran will ALWAYS have a perpetual flow of a young expendable *cheap* workforce. Now add to the fact you've got unlimited H1Bs living in communes for the very same reason (prior to going back home to China and India) and you've got exactly what simple is of San Fran - a giant youth working campus/city. IT IS NOT A PLACE TO RAISE A FAMILY!!

Re:It's Simple Economics

[lgw]

That's actually cheaper than the the tech area of downtown Seattle, where a small studio apartment runs ~$1800 if you're moving in now. Of course, there are also 50-somehting new highrises going up in Seattle, mostly residential, so maybe that will help a bit.

San Jose is high, but it's not crazy. I found the pay more than offset the cost - just stay away from SF. Seattle is bordering on crazy, but at least they're building out.

Re:It's Simple Economics

[bhcompy]

Seattle has inexpensive commutable areas much closer than SV. I have a friend who commutes from Tracy to Redwood City. That's fucking ridiculous(2-3 hours if you don't pay tolls, 1.5-2.5 hours if you do). Renton to Seattle(or Redmond or Bellevue or whatever) is 30 minutes.

Re:It's Simple Economics

[Sowelu]

When?

Re:It's Simple Economics

[Sowelu]

When I worked for AMZN, parking was like $200/mo after company reimbursement, so there are definitely financial incentives to living somewhere within walking distance. (I lived somewhere where busing would turn a 40 minute commute to a 70 minute one, and I value an hour a day not on the road.) Hell, it would be a pretty tough call on how much less space I'm willing to live in to trade for a ten minute walking commute. Back when I was single at least--not so much now.

Re:It's Simple Economics

[luis_a_espinal]

Why would I pay $3000/month to share a ROOM with four other people making $120K when I can BUY a four bedroom house on one acre of land in the country for $825/month on half that salary anywhere between the Rocky and Appalachian mountain ranges? I'd take the boring enterprise 9-5 job at a no-name B2B service company any day of the week and enjoy my big house and yard with my kids any day of the week.

I agree with you, partly, on the wisdom of paying crazy rent in the valley. But I have misgivings about living away from major metropolitan areas because the smaller the metro area, the less number of employers. Less expensive real state tends to correlate with a smaller number of employers (and thus a greater risk when things go south.)

So there is a balance where, at least for me, I prefer to pay the extra cost of living in a large metropolitan area (say, Atlanta, South Florida, Dallas, Denver, Portland or Seattle) as insurance against being bound to a very small number of employers.

But as some point, as you mention, the increased cost makes no sense because it begins to trample on quality of life. If I were to pay so much for renting in the Valley, I might as well move to a megapolis like NYC or Tokyo (much larger, more interesting places with a sufficiently large number of employers.)

Re:It's Simple Economics

[luis_a_espinal]

You don't. Even in the heart of SV, you can rent your own room for about $1000/month.

Or you can buy a decent house here for that. So am I surprised most software developers don't live in Silicon Valley? No. For the same reason I never moved there.

Aside from that, as mcmonkey quite correctly pointed out, most of everything is outside of Silicon Valley. Most of anything is outside of any given city.

Are you sure about that? Because I pretty much gave up trying to move to the valley because I could not find anything decent for that price. Yeah, I could find that in very shitty areas, but what would be the point of that? I did the math, and pretty much I would have to earn 3X of what I make now to afford the type of housing, schools and amenities that I currently provide my family (and I live in South Florida, not the cheapest of regions.)

Re:It's Simple Economics

[luis_a_espinal]

Why would I pay $3000/month to share a ROOM with four other people [...]

I pay $1477 for a 475-sqf studio apartment in San Jose, where I lived there by myself for 10+ years and make only $50K per year in IT support.

You can make almost twice as much and pay the same amount for a 2-bedroom apartment rental with 1-car garage in a decent area here in South Florida. You are getting ripped off. What the hell are you doing there?

Re:It's Simple Economics

[luis_a_espinal]

[...] sounds like you're getting ripped off considering the area.

Unless like most people, I was born and raised here. I'm not yet ready to let the hipsters run me out of town.

But you are certainly bleeding money. Money is not everything, but by God, do the math. You could be losing between $300K to $500K in wages in 10 years if you stay where you are. That's not chump change.

Re:It's Simple Economics

[lgw]

Redmond and Bellevue aren't cheap by non-SV standards (I pay north of $2400 for a two bedroom) and the commute is getting measurably longer. Hopefully that will settle down once all this new housing comes online.

Re:It's Simple Economics

[stinerman]

I have a 1500 sq. ft. house that is $800/mo including escrow and PMI. My commute is 5 minutes.

My salary would probably have to quintuple before I'd even consider going to SV for work.

Re:It's Simple Economics

[__aaclcg7560]

Money is not everything, but by God, do the math.

I could move away to a cheaper area, but pay more in commute and time costs. Or I could make the best of my situation. Either way, I'm still saving 20% of my income.

Re:It's Simple Economics

[__aaclcg7560]

[...] here in South Florida.

Real estate is cheap because South Florida will be under water by end of century.

What the hell are you doing there?

Born and raised here. One of the few natives still left here.

Re:It's Simple Economics

[ezelkow1]

Have they said if its going to be actual affordable housing? If not I wouldnt count on it. In denver they've been building apartments and condos like gangbusters. However all of them are still priced ridiculously high that Im not sure who all these people are that can afford them. Seems like average rent for a place outside of denver thats nice and about a 10-15 min commute to the tech area runs about 1200-1400/mo, but all these new places start at at least 2000 for a one bed to rent and most are 400k+ to purchase

More places get built, open up, and everyone's rents keep climbing to match

Re:It's Simple Economics

[crgrace]

I'm raising my family in SF. It's great. Lots of culture, lots of playgrounds, vibrant public schools, lots of engaged parents. SF has amazing food, interesting places to go for day trips, tons of museums and libraries. It's a great place to raise kids.

Re:It's Simple Economics

[lgw]

Supply and demand will sort it out in the long run. What's terrible is when only new businesses get built, and no new housing - then it goes through the roof. That was happening for a while in Seattle.

My real hope is that all the new downtown housing drains the suburbs a bit, making the commute easier and suburban rents cheaper as demand declines.

Re:It's Simple Economics

[PCM2]

I agree with your sentiments on raising a family but since you insist on calling it "SanFran" I, for one, can't wait for you to leave.

Re:It's Simple Economics

[ShanghaiBill]

I have a 1500 sq. ft. house that is $800/mo

You could rent that for $3000/mo in SV. So the difference is $2200/mo or about $28k/yr.

My salary would probably have to quintuple before I'd even consider going to SV for work.

If your salary would have to quintuple to get an extra $28k/yr, then you aren't even making minimum wage.

Other than housing, costs are not particularly high in SV. Gasoline is slightly more than average. Groceries are the same. Utilities tend to be lower since the weather is nearly perfect, so you don't need to heat or cool much. The schools are among the best in America.

Re:It's Simple Economics

[JoeMerchant]

I'm absolutely shocked that anyone would make the claim that "10% of all software is written in Silicon Valley" - what utter tripe! Silicon Valley may be tech heavy, but it contains less than 0.001% of the world's population that is technically capable of writing software.

Two million new Android developers in India next year, are there 200,000 Android developers in the valley?

Re:It's Simple Economics

[DigiShaman]

I've been there, worked there, will never live there.

Re: It's Simple Economics

[kellymcdonald78]

And California will have slid into the ocean after the Big One. Seems like asinine stubbornness to ignore opportunities in places where you weren't born. What do you plan to do with your savings? Retire to an old folks home in the same neighborhood?

Re: It's Simple Economics

[__aaclcg7560]

And California will have slid into the ocean after the Big One.

Still waiting after 30+ years.

What do you plan to do with your savings? Retire to an old folks home in the same neighborhood?

Las Vegas. Should be far enough inland to avoid the flooding of the SF Bay Area and Central Valley from rising sea levels.

Re:It's Simple Economics

[__aaclcg7560]

First: you could probably get more than 50k per year in IT support in other areas of the country.

I work for government IT and $50K is the national average this position. On the bright, I'm two years into a five-year contract that's fully funded. Job security and consistent income is a nice trade off.

So you spend 34% of your GROSS income on RENTING a room the size of a postage stamp?

My studio apartment is quite big for my needs. I could probably live in a smaller space, maybe less than 150 square foot. Smaller spaces don't necessarily mean less rent unless I go further out from downtown.

That sounds like a really stupid way to live, if you ask me.

No, I didn't. :P

[...] a much nicer town than SJ [...]

I'm in the sweet spot for public transit. I'm an hour away from North San Jose (light rail), Mountain View (Caltrain) and Palo Alto (express bus).

Re:It's Simple Economics

[bhcompy]

I wasn't saying they were living areas, more areas to commute to for work(with a generic cheap very close city like Renton as a base living area). Renton is cheap and sub-30min from those areas(where jobs are).

Re:It's Simple Economics

[Darinbob]

It doesn't cost that much. Seriously. Just don't live in San Francisco (which is NOT silicon valley).

As for software, it's never been the biggest thing in Silicon Valley until the last decade. It's called "silicon" not "software", and was a big engineering hub before the wannabe programmers moved in with their social media.

The reason the valley is nice is that if you lose your job then there's another one nearby. Employers at the moment do not like you to work from home or telecommute. Even for software the majority of them want you in the office at least once day a week. So that means if you're in Appalachia in an affordable home and lose your job that you may have to move somewhere else. Even if you're not in Silicon Valley you do well being in a hub where there are a lot of companies doing software or engineering.

Re:It's Simple Economics

[Darinbob]

The commute from there is much better than the commute from San Francisco though, and fewer hipsters as neighbors.

Re: It's Simple Economics

[kellymcdonald78]

So you wouldn't move to Southern Florida since you're concerned it might be under water by the end of the century, but you're not concerned about a major earthquake in the Bay Area over the same 85 year period. If your intent is to move to Vegas one day, what's stopping you from doing it today?

Re: It's Simple Economics

[__aaclcg7560]

If your intent is to move to Vegas one day, what's stopping you from doing it today?

I'm 25 years away from retirement. If I'm going to spend my twilight years at the casinos, I'll need to save up for some gambling money.

Re:It's Simple Economics

[__aaclcg7560]

Yes, you read that correctly.

When my roommates and I split up after living in the same triplex in Cupertino for six years, the landlord was happy to see us go. We were paying $1,600 per month. After we moved out, he raised the rent to $3,200 as the real estate market sizzled in the run up to the dot com bust. If he still owns the triplex today, the rent should be astronomical now as the triplex is down the street from the new Apple campus and the nearby shopping mall is being rebuilt into a mixed development.

Re:It's Simple Economics

[K. S. Kyosuke]

About fifteen years ago, I think.

Re: It's Simple Economics

[kellymcdonald78]

You don't need to retire. You could move to Vegas today, get a job making the same money, and buy a nice house with the same money you're currently plowing into rent. I don't get this whole mindset of "all the great things I'll do when I'm retired" while ignoring that you could be doing them right now.

xkcd

[Austerity Empowers]

One look at the map in TFA and this came to mind: https://xkcd.com/1138/

I guess it surprises someone that "software development" includes a whole lot of people all over the country. Databases don't query themselves, and there's always a lot of corporate tools in every line of work. Software developers make them...

Re:xkcd

[oakgrove]

I guess it surprises someone that "software development" includes a whole lot of people all over the country.

It actually surprises me that a full 10 percent of software jobs are actually in Silicon Valley. Every major city I've ever lived in across the US has been teeming with job openings in the tech sector. Just seems kind of weird that the headline of the article is going on about 90 percent of software developers working outside the valley. Is this news to anyone?

Re:xkcd

[luis_a_espinal]

I guess it surprises someone that "software development" includes a whole lot of people all over the country.

It actually surprises me that a full 10 percent of software jobs are actually in Silicon Valley. Every major city I've ever lived in across the US has been teeming with job openings in the tech sector. Just seems kind of weird that the headline of the article is going on about 90 percent of software developers working outside the valley. Is this news to anyone?

For the mobile app/unicorn hipsters in the valley, yep.

Re:xkcd

[Hognoxious]

Don't be silly. Theoretically it's possible, but it's fundamentally as stupid as saying that if you got enough sengis they'd be heavier than not one - but two - elephants. Which is clearly bollocks, because even a single elephant is bloody huge and I don't even know what a sengi/o/us is.

LIke if it was the case, you'd have to come up with some retarded name like a power law or or even a made-up word like "zipf" to describe it.

Re:xkcd

[phantomfive]

Every major city I've ever lived in across the US has been teeming with job openings in the tech sector.

Sometimes it feels like there's nothing but software jobs in Silicon Valley.

Rubbish

[PmanAce]

It's pretty much everywhere BECAUSE companies are pretty much everywhere.

Re:Rubbish

[jellomizer]

The real question I was wondering why does anyone find that surprising?
While Silicon Valley is a major technology hub (10% of the software developers is HUGE!) there is need for software development across the globe. Many Major colleges teach Computer Science and Computer Engineering around the world, However there are a lot of Major ones in the North Eastern US. It is insane to think that all these people whose home is spread across the world, will travel away from it to study in colleges in one half of the country, then travel 2000 miles to the other end of the country for work?
Most of these people tend to stay near their homes or their colleges (Hence why a lot of communities like having colleges in their area, causing a lot of new business around those areas, from young new grads, who have nothing to lose and startup new companies).

Re:Rubbish

[PmanAce]

Almost every college offers computer science. No need to go study it in the north east US.

yes, because the alternative is frowned upon

[nimbius]

10-15 years ago i made a vigorous proposal to move all software developers into silicon valley for easier categorization. Cattle ranchers would be moved into cattle valley, and car repairmen would be moved into car valley (this makes indexing and normalization easier.) problems began to mount from the start. Some people complained they "didnt want to leave" their friends and family. others answered back with "sure ill move but i dont have a job" and "when will i see my wife again, you told me she was safe." Whiners.

Anyhow once id approacher 40% of developers I noticed they didnt stack well, and many of them complained of food shortages and transportation problems. Id instituted a "no family" policy to try and remedy this, and it worked for a while, until people told me that id have to find a way to get new software developers imported. Constructing a giant tube, i used it to hydraulically propel anyone from about age 17 on who tweeted even a cursory interest in software into my silicon valley. things were working well, so long as once weekly I greased all my programmers so they could move freely in the valley and made sure to flood their cubicles with nutrition slurry once or twice a day. Then the real issues started to mount. once id hit 80% of all developers, their combined mass and pressure was enough to begin to elicit a gravitational field. Project managers now had to come with an escape velocity equation in their salary, and pizzas from neighbouring cities were delivered from 3 miles outside the valley by letting go of the pie and hoping for the best. I unfortunately had to give up on my grand vision of a valley of programmers when a rogue sysadmin at a rest stop accidentally flew into the valley and impacted it with enough force to blanket the valley in a dark cloud of coffee beans and office chairs. its now a cold, barren wasteland inhabited by a race of creatures that subsist entirely on fried meat and energy drinks. they communicate in an arcane language of 3 letter abbreviations and social justice causes.

Re:yes, because the alternative is frowned upon

[Joe_Dragon]

Others started to think that way and before long they moved all the Jews into a camp.

Re:Rural Montana ?

[ngc3242]

This is exactly right.

It's actually not a bad way to live if you're young. You can live in and get to know many different places, but once you start to get settled with a family, you can't be uprooting them to move somewhere else every time the company you work for gets bought, "changes strategic direction", or whatever.

No Kidding

[nitehawk214]

It's almost like there are way more people living on the east coast than the west coast.

How convenient

[smooth wombat]

A trade group for the software industry claiming there are a quarter million software jobs open around the country. Yet oddly, when people with years of experience apply for these positions they are routinely told they don't have the experience the company is looking for.

Granted, not every candidate has the experience for every position, but it seems quite odd that for all the people who apply for a position, not one is qualified. Ever. Not even remotely close qualified. Even with the thousands of new developers being sent to pasture every month from other companies.

And here we have a trade group for the software industry essentially claiming the same thing. Coincidence? You decide.

Re:How convenient

[Joe_Dragon]

They like there chained to the job H1B's

Re:How convenient

[computational super]

You're not the only one who's noticed this. Although I am currently employed, and have actually never been out of work since I started working around '94 or so, I do change jobs every 3-5 years on the average. And I've had some very inexplicable rejections for positions that I was beyond qualified for. On paper, at least, I look good (I like to think I'm pretty good in person, too, but "on paper" is completely objective), yet I've been rejected from way more developer positions that I've had every single qualification they asked for (and most of the nice-to-haves) than I've been hired for. Sometimes I feel like somebody is just yanking my chain.

Re:How convenient

[jellomizer]

Being involved in the hiring process, I find that a lot of technology candidates with many years of experience do not have the right experience. Too much focus on New Technology that the organization may not implement. Too much focus on older technology that we are trying to faze out, or had removed a long time ago. Or jobs that require basic human interaction, because no matter how good they are technically, we don't want need a jackass who makes everyone looks bad. Where you are better off with someone with less skillsets, who is better for the job.

Re:How convenient

[Karl Cocknozzle]

A trade group for the software industry claiming there are a quarter million software jobs open around the country. Yet oddly, when people with years of experience apply for these positions they are routinely told they don't have the experience the company is looking for.

Indeed. This is part of the "have to find a pink unicorn" philosophy of corporate hiring brought about by the disposable worker phenomenon. That is: Companies only want to hire the special snowflake that already has 100% of the skills and knowledge they want because they are willing to invest $0 in training them to do the job. Once upon a time, experience in related (but not identical) skills and tools were considered a good measurement of whether you could learn something and be good at a job involving it. Nowadays, you're totally disqualified if you're not an absolutely exact match.

Not coincidentally, this same philosophy leads to the endless import of H1-Bs willing to work for 40% less than an American, and is espoused by a very strongly correlated and overlapping group of folks. Most of the people preaching "skill shortage!" also are the ones proposing the solution is to import cheap labor from abroad.

Re:How convenient

[pr0fessor]

I have had to deal with plenty of entry level people trying to fill senior level positions either they make it through the trial by fire or they don't. If those people you are hiring for their charisma you find leaving in less than a year chances are you need to rethink that strategy.

Re:How convenient

[lgw]

And here we have a trade group for the software industry essentially claiming the same thing. Coincidence? You decide.

Every place I've worked on the West Coast has a developer hiring bar that turns away between 60% and 80% of those they interview. "Experience" on the resume doesn't matter once you're that far - it's all about demonstrating coding skills.

I don't think it's a great system. I see too many candidate rejected who would be perfectly acceptable in the role. The bar is set high enough that normal random performance variation of the candidates mean there's IMO a 50% chance that any given qualified candidate gets hired.

When these companies complain about "lack of talent", it's nothing to do with H1-Bs, and everything to do with a misplaced drive to hire "only the best". It's good to filter out the losers who just suck up everyone's time on the team, but what I see happening is "only the lucky, among the good", which is just a bad system.

Still, a remarkable chunk of candidates with great resumes (at least a third) just can't code for shit, so I can't object to the basic idea of demonstrating coding skills in the interview.

Re:How convenient

[computational super]

Too much focus on New Technology ... Too much focus on older technology

So... you want somebody who hasn't worked on new technology OR old technology?

Re:How convenient

[Anonymous Coward]

One thing that I can say, is as a business owner ( and software developer e.a the business grew out of my consulting gigs ),
that i just had to do wade through about 500 applications for one job ( a lead developer position for large scale server software )...

About 95/100 developers that are out there are next to useless in my experience.

When hiring i don't care about:

1.Education ( while having a masters in CS myself, i don't consider it job training, and its just noise, there are good ones with and without degrees )
2. Age ( who cares if someone is 55, as long as he/she can deliver

We offer reasonable hours ( 38,5 a week, no overtime required, which is a firm rule i enforce ), and pay almost double the local market rate.

However about 80/100 candidates that apply cannot solve the simplest coding problems themselves without guidance ( we have a thorough entry test ) and know nothing about proper software development practices.. e.g designing code that it also handles corner cases, has reasonable error handling and so forth.

E.g understanding what a thread is ( seriously ) and what synchronization is and how it works is beyond even 90 of those 100...

Re:How convenient

[Anonymous Coward]

So... you want somebody who hasn't worked on new technology OR old technology?

Yeah, my bullshit detector was twitching on this one too.

Hire a good generalist and TRAIN them.

Re:How convenient

[Gavrielkay]

I can understand a personality fit problem, but complaining about 'the right experience' is nonsense. Look for flexible people who can solve problems and they'll pick up whatever your flavor of the month is. Has hiring really come down to stupid HR lists? Must have 3 years of X and 2 years of Y. Please. You should be looking for problem solvers, not people who fit some arbitrary magical list. Yeah, it's harder to evaluate for 'smart, flexible' person than to scan a resume but the result is much better.

Re:How convenient

[phantomfive]

Too much focus on New Technology that the organization may not implement. Too much focus on older technology that we are trying to faze out, or had removed a long time ago.

So no new technology, and no old technology.
I think I see your problem.

Re:How convenient

[Anonymous Coward]

I have never, ever been in a company without open positions. Hell, even in the startups I worked in we'd be hiring until the day we went under. I haven't checked for a long time, but it used to be the case that people stayed in a programming job on average 2 years. So even to fight attrition, in a team of 10 you have to hire 5 people a year. In the companies I work at, we tend to have better attrition rates, but we're still hiring maybe 30% of our entire software team size *every single year*. Even if you only want moderate growth, what it means is that you have to hire 60% of your team every single year.

So there are *lots* of jobs. The problem is the high attrition rate. 50% of the industry is looking for work. Let me say that again so it sinks in. If you are unemployed, you are not competing against other unemployed people. You are competing against 50% of the industry which is looking to jump to a new job. If I'm hiring 6 people, it's not unreasonable to expect that I'll receive 6000 CVs. At best, I'm going to pick 60 (1%) of those CVs to interview.

When you apply for a job, you are competing against half the industry and your CV needs to be in the top 1% just to get an interview. It doesn't matter what ridiculous niche experience set you are looking for, with half the industry to pick from and only wanting the top 1%, it's *easy* to pare it down to people with "3 years of R and OCaml". Haven't been working for a long time? You're going to get bumped unless you have something compelling to sway the decision. Applying cold to a large company without *exactly* the requirements they want? Forget about it. You won't make it past HR.

And the thing is that even once you pare it down to the 1%, most of the time you *still* don't find good enough candidates and you end up under head count.

So your strategy if you are looking for a job is simple: 1. Send out a *lot* of CVs. 100 is not to much. 2. Make your story compelling. If you are out of work, then start a project and write shit loads of code. Show it to people. I can't stress this enough. 3. Don't rely on cold calls. You must insert yourself into the industry. Go to conferences. Go to meetups. Go to coding dojos. There aren't any of the above where you live? Start them, even if you are the only person who shows up at first. You have to get around HR and the only way to do that is to meet people.

And last (because it is depressing) software development is a difficult job. It's not for everyone. If you *really* can't make a go of it despite the fact that there are lots of jobs and despite doing all of the above, it's time to be realistic and look at other career options. Even if you have worked as a developer for a long time, it might be time for a career change.

Re:How convenient

[majid_aldo]

mod up. i don't have points. but people should just reply to this comment just to emphasize how important this is.

makes sense.

[wierd_w]

You dont have to be from silicon valley to be interested in software, and the best developers are the ones who learned out of personal self interest. such people will be all over the place.

It makes sense that employers who need and value them will accept telecommuting in exchange for securing that talent, given the so called scarcity. (sweetening the deal, rural US wages are much lower than on the coasts.)

I really dont see what is so unusual about this statistic.

News flash: People live and work elsewhere

[OzPeter]

Film at 11.

Why do people think that Silcon valley is the be all and end all of software development?

Re:News flash: People live and work elsewhere

[sjames]

I'm fairly sure the "Valley People" think the rest of us are living in caves grunting at each other around the fire.

Re:News flash: People live and work elsewhere

[ItsJustAPseudonym]

You have fire? Ug, I'll be right there.

Re:News flash: People live and work elsewhere

[bozzy]

From my experience, people think it's actually in India.

Re:News flash: People live and work elsewhere

[phantomfive]

Why do people think that Silcon valley is the be all and end all of software development?

It pays better. That's why for me.
Yeah, it's true that housing costs are expensive, but where else can you get $170k-$200k? That's more than enough to make up for the increased expenses.

Re:News flash: People live and work elsewhere

[Morpeth]

Wish I had some mod points... +1 Funny

Just In...

[Anonymous Coward]

Breaking News!

The world doesn't revolve around California.

In related news, New York and London are also not the center of the universe. This news may come to a shock to just under 0.5% of the world's population that live in these locations.

From the No Shit Sherlock Instution

[Snotnose]

Is anybody really surprised at this?

10 percent!

[invid]

I'm actually surprised that as many as 10 percent work inside Silicon Valley.

Re:10 percent!

[jetkust]

You're surprised because it's absurd. There is no way 10% of all developers are in Silicon Valley. It doesn't even say that anywhere in the article. I don't even know where the number comes from.

Shocked in a different way

[ranton]

I am more shocked that 10% of all developers in the US work in the Silicon Valley area. I would have guessed a sub-5% figure.

This just in!

[Opportunist]

People whose "product" is independent of where they produce it don't want to live in areas where it's insanely expensive to rent a cardboard box, let alone an apartment.

Who would have thought?

Confused!

[magarity]

Seriously, I don't get it. On alternating weeks there are stories of how there is a shortage of qualified IT people in the US labor market or stories of how qualified IT people are training their H1-B replacements. WHICH IS IT???

Re:Confused!

[wierd_w]

there is a shortage of "qualified applicants".

There is not a shortage of talent.

qualified applicant == a person with the skillset we want that will also work at well below median pay, work much more than median hours without overtime, and is beholden to the company and cannot leave easily. They also have to be local, so they can attend those all important meetings.

I hope that helps.

Re:Confused!

[computational super]

You don't honestly think that any of those developers that TFA refers to are US citizens, do you?

Re:Confused!

[wierd_w]

of course not, but they still need to be local to have their daily browbeatings in person, and attend all those critically important meetings.

H1Bs are perfect fits.

Re:Confused!

[Gavrielkay]

So sadly true. H1B is such a crock of shit it's a wonder that anyone in the process can stomach the stench. I guess the piles of money made from the indentured servitude of others must mask the smell.

Re:Confused!

[TheSunborn]

There is a real shortage of qualified software developers, but there is far less of a shortage of the rest of it, such as support and system installation(Linux/Windows sysadmins).
 

Thanks Captain Obvious!

[in10se]

Gee, you can't fit all 100% of programmers into a small geographic area? Some of them don't want to live there? What a crazy world we live in!

I'd bet 90% is a bit low for an estimate. Probably more like 99% of software developers work outside of Silicon Valley.

No shit, sherlock

[Sneeka2]

The ratio of Silicone Valley's population to the rest of the world is
2.63x10^-4. Most developers live outside of that tiny area?! I'd have been amazed if it was any other way...!

Stop repeating that myth.

[Anonymous Coward]

The chronic talent shortage afflicting Silicon Valley is now all over the US—and the developers are too.

There is no chronic shortage. It is a myth invented by tech companies to get the H1-b quota boosted.

And if any company is having a hard time recruiting people, they are doing something very wrong. My company hasn't had to use a recruiter or job board in over 8 years. HR just sends out an email to everyone saying they're looking for someone and in about two weeks, the new person starts. Somebody on the team knows someone with the skills who's looking for a new job.

Also, don't immediately discount unemployed folks. Just because they're out of work doesn't mean they're no good - especially in this day and age of people being replaced by H1-bs and offshoring.

And as far as new grads are concerned, "elite" schools don't have a monopoly on hard working smart kids.

And maybe your system isn't as cutting edge as you think it is. I've seen too many jobs where at most a BS CIS is all that's needs and many times a 2 year tech grad would be able to do a wonderful job. But they want the MIT grad to do their web page.

Re:Stop repeating that myth.

[__aaclcg7560]

Also, don't immediately discount unemployed folks. Just because they're out of work doesn't mean they're no good - especially in this day and age of people being replaced by H1-bs and offshoring.

I was out of work for two years (2009-10), underemployed for six months (working 20 hours per month), and filed for chapter seven bankruptcy in 2011. During that time I was told by hiring managers that I was overqualified for minimum wage jobs and recruiters that I was unemployable for anything else. Funny how that attitude changed all the sudden when they needed bodies to fill out the headcount as the economy turned around. I spent the next two years working seven days a week.

Re:Stop repeating that myth.

[vux984]

and many times a 2 year tech grad would be able to do a wonderful job. But they want the MIT grad to do their web page.

... and they want to pay him less than the even the 2 year college grad would accept.

Rural

[jdavidb]

I've lived in a rural part of Texas for almost ten years. I left a programming job at a telecommunications company and joined a software outfit that had been out here for 25 years. I'm much happier here.

It's simple geography.

[mcmonkey]

Most of _everything_ is outside Silicon Valley.

Is this news to anyone?

Re:It's simple geography.

[__aaclcg7560]

Most of _everything_ is outside Silicon Valley.

Including San Francisco, which is 50 miles down the road.

Re:It's simple geography.

[fahrbot-bot]

Most of _everything_ is outside Silicon Valley.

Is this news to anyone?

Apparently it is to those living/working in Silicon Valley.

I've been a software engineer / system administrator since 1987. I and 100% of my co-workers have never worked in Silicon Valley.

Re:It's simple geography.

[OrangeTide]

sick burn!

suck it San Francisco!

Re:It's simple geography.

[K. S. Kyosuke]

Well, certainly not to cosmologists!

Re: It's simple geography.

[WarJolt]

Silicon Valley still has high rental prices. A bargain 1 bedroom apartment is still going to cost you at least 2x more. Probably not $3k, but still pricey.

Re:It's simple geography.

[mcl630]

Most of _everything_ is outside Silicon Valley.

Is this news to anyone?

It is to many inside the Valley.

Re: It's simple geography.

[Darinbob]

Shop around. Get roommates and that $3000/mo gets more affordable. Commute from further away instead of living in the priciest places.

Was it ever been a big deal?

[fubarrr]

Most of programmers live on this side of Urals. China+India+Eastern Europe=~90% of global tech work force

Re:Nothing is stopping Google

[slew]

from opening up shop in Fresno where the jobs are much needed.

I suspect the thing stopping companies (like Google) from opening offices in a particular place (like Fresno) is that whoever proposes that idea in the company probably wants to find some qualified person currently in the company to move there to supervise the buildup of the company at that location to preserve the company culture.

If you want some BigAssTechCompany to open an office in Fresno, probably the best way to do that is to join said BigAssTechCompany at the headquarters (perhaps in the bay area), work your way up the ladder and become a known leader in the company. Then you can make your case that it would make sense to open an office in Fresno and if the higher-ups agree, then move to Fresno and become a site leader.

If it actually made sense (not saying Fresno makes sense), but nobody has done it yet, it is probably because the transplant-able person that could make it happen doesn't yet work for BigAssTechCompany, or maybe such a person doesn't actually want to move back to Fresno after working in at headquarters for a while (perhaps enjoys living bay area or has kids in school, etc, etc, or maybe has just grown to hate enduring the summer heat in Fresno)...

I'm conflicted...

[OakDragon]

Should I say "duh", or should I say "so?"

Re:I'm conflicted...

[__aaclcg7560]

If Silicon Valley didn't have software fairies, none of the hardware could have worked.

Re:I'm conflicted...

[__aaclcg7560]

You can make things other than computers out of silicon, you know.

You're correct. Can't have software fairies without having sand castles.

And over 90% suck

[Anonymous Coward]

At least in my experience I've rarely met software engineers who actually know what they were doing, versus living on stackoverflow every day.

Re:Nothing is stopping Google

[__aaclcg7560]

I suspect the thing stopping companies (like Google) from opening offices in a particular place (like Fresno) in [...]

A lot of people who work in Silicon Valley live in Fresno and commute four hours each way every day. I knew a coworker at eBay who carpooled with four other people, each person driving one day out of the week. If Google opened a satellite campus in Fresno, they will probably have 50+ employees to staff it.

Links to Tech CEOs' demand for $250M from Feds

[theodp]

Let's see - study comes from a Microsoft/Google/Apple-sponsored group that asks site visitors to join the CEOs of those companies to demand that Congress cough up $250 million in K-12 computer science education funding.

Re:Nothing is stopping Google

[__aaclcg7560]

Someone that insane shouldn't be running an office anyway.

The person who is willing to commute four hours each way? He bought a five-bedroom ranch house in Fresno. I think he telecommutes in his current job.

no surprise

[Gravis Zero]

after all, "computer software developer" is the most popular job in CO, UT, VA and WA.

The valley is naked

[Master5000]

Innovation no longer happens in The Valley. It's dead put it in bed.

That doesn't mean what you think it means

[genfail]

It's still pretty absurd when you think about it since this could just as easily read, "10% of All Software Developers in the World, Concentrated in 10 Mile Radius."

Re:Nothing is stopping Google

[slew]

I suspect the thing stopping companies (like Google) from opening offices in a particular place (like Fresno) in [...]

A lot of people who work in Silicon Valley live in Fresno and commute four hours each way every day. I knew a coworker at eBay who carpooled with four other people, each person driving one day out of the week. If Google opened a satellite campus in Fresno, they will probably have 50+ employees to staff it.

Given the stereotypical sillyvalley culture (e.g, young, unmarried, saying late at work, etc, etc), I suspect these people do not fit the profile of a company leader that can keep the torch for the company culture for a remote office.

Having been through these remote office actualities with companies of different size, the empirical evidence is that finding acceptable site leaders is often the biggest obstacles. A warm body (even if a outstanding technical contributor) is insufficient qualifications for being a site leader. You generally need to find someone fully invested in the koolaid, yet still respected many people in the company... Even if you do find one of these people, sometimes they don't have all the skills that are needed and you find that need more than one person to make it work.

Then you need to keep your fingers crossed that those site leaders you pick don't morph on you (e.g, turn out to be an empire builder, unmanageable remote operator, or zombie worker, other such corporate parasite) when nobody is around watching them....

Well no shit, Sherlock!

[tehlinux]

TIL India is outside of Silicon Valley

joke went over your head, didn't it?

[luis_a_espinal]

wooosh?

Silicon Valley is overrated

[MoarSauce123]

I never understood what the big deal is with Silicon Valley. That region is filled with companies that have inept management. Why put HQ where 2342423424 other companies jockey for the scarce talent in the area? The US is a big place, they can put their offices in many other places...where realty prices are much lower, the weather is less hot, labor costs are lower, talent is plentiful, excellent colleges exist...the list goes on.

Who the *hell* thought we all worked there?

[whitroth]

Oh, duh, you all live in Silicon Valley, and *everything* comes from there... Jezuz H. Christ on a crutch! Every big and most medium sized companies have teams ranging from small to huge, ON SITE. Mid-nineties, when I worked for Ameritech (former Baby Bell swallowed by SBC), we had hundreds of us, just on one big startup subdivision. And when I had a short contract with Lowe's (not Home Despot) in Nowhere, NC, they'd taken over, literally, and entire *mall*, and there might have been a thousand cubes, and dozens at least, more, in the main office. And then there's government.

Talk about a complete media illusion, mostly by "journalists" who don't know a phone from a server....

            mark