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Theresa May Reshuffles Cabinet, Warns Amazon and Google of Power Shift (arstechnica.co.uk)

Posted by BeauHD on from the new-government dept.

An anonymous reader writes from a report via Ars Technica: British Prime Minister Theresa May has given a stern warning to big business, telling the public to "think not of the powerful, but you." Specifically, she singled out Google and Amazon for dodging taxes and creating a lot of parliamentary scrutiny. Ars Technica reports: "May has been quick to stamp her brand of conservatism on her party by letting go of key members of Cameron's cabinet. She has so far sacked big hitters such as chancellor of the exchequer George Osborne, justice secretary Michael Gove, and culture secretary John Whittingdale. Philip Hammond now has the keys to Number 11, but we're still waiting to hear who will replace Whittingdale, whose remit included the rollout of super fast broadband in the UK. He's also the man behind the White Paper on the future of the BBC, which sought radical changes at the public service broadcaster. So far, 10 cabinet positions have been announced by May. They include Justine Greening as secretary of state for education, and Liz Truss becomes justice secretary, while former London mayor and key Brexit campaigner Boris Johnson -- to the surprise of many -- now heads up the foreign office. May has handed her home secretary job to Amber Rudd -- who will now be responsible for the government's push for greater online surveillance laws. Rudd was previously the minister for energy and climate change." David Davis is now in charge of withdrawing the UK from the European Union. David has for many years "opposed the government's attempts to bring in a so-called Snoopers' Charter." Ars Technica writes, "He's also currently suing the UK government over DRIPA -- legislation that was rushed through by the Tories after the European Court of Justice had ruled that the Data Retention Directive was invalid for failing to have adequate privacy safeguards in place."

145 of 227 comments (clear)

  1. Re:She seem like a commie... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Because it is competitive, and Ireland's gamble at lower rates for more volume is failing and simply depriving the public of funding for zero gains. Conservative doesn't mean wacko like in the US, her job isn't to do amateur plastic surgery to kill the state like the US Republican strategy has been.

  2. Re:She seem like a commie... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Conservative doesn't mean wacko like in the US

    And it's high time conservatives reclaim the title from the wackos

  3. The British government looks like Duck Soup by Streetlight · · Score: 3, Funny

    I wonder if the inner sanctum of Number 10 has lots of doors because it looks like a Marx Brothers movie, particularly Duck Soup. May is Margaret Dumont, , Johnson is Groucho, Chico could be Hammond, and Harpo could be Truss. We need more Marx Brothers for the rest of the bozos. No wonder Cameron hummed with a smile while entering Number 10 to clean out his stuff.

    --
    In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell
    1. Re:The British government looks like Duck Soup by MightyMartian · · Score: 5, Interesting

      There is sound logic behind the putting of the chief surviving Brexiteers in senior positions. First of all, May, as a Remainer, is giving them the responsibility to implement that which they convinced a majority of voters to vote for. The intent behind is to heal the deep rifts in the Conservative Party. Everyone knows some form of free movement, like the so-called Norway model, is going to have to be a feature of Britain maintaining open access to the EU (this is particularly true of the City, where the inability to work within the EU financial system freely would likely see a great deal of the City migrate over to the Continent). It will be David Davis, one of the main Brexiters, who will have to negotiate these matters, and forcing him to largely repudiate pretty much every significant Leave stance will be just deserts, not to mention to some extent protecting May from being seen as imposing a Remain agenda. The same goes for Leadsom, who is now responsible for having to either maintain subsidy levels to all this UK farmers who relied on EU subsidies, or explain to all and asunder how Brexit was perhaps not the best idea ever.

      Boris Johnson is the best bit, however. He's managed to insult just about every important leader in the Western world, as well as Turkey's Recip Erdogan. His appointment as Foreign Minister means his first few weeks in the position will see his belly get fairly raw by having to crawl up to all those Germans, French, Belgians and others that his band of merry fools compared to Nazis. The intent here is twofold; first of all, she cannot trust Boris on the backbenches, where he's bound to stir up trouble, but she also needs to give him the opportunity to destroy himself, thus making a potential (maybe even inevitable) sacking far easier, and forever rendering him an impotent figure. And, despite his clown's attitude, he is known to have some ability, so maybe, once he's finished kissing ever one of Britain's Western allies' asses, he might even not do a bad job. And, in reality, over the years the Foreign Office's importance has dwindled to some extent, with Prime Minister's tending to manage the more important files, like relations with close allies, off their own desk.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    2. Re:The British government looks like Duck Soup by Streetlight · · Score: 1

      I recently read somewhere that the heads of the EU countries' delegations in Brussels told the UK person that the UK can't have any of the benefits of being in the EU without being in the EU. The UK can't pick and choose what they like about the EU and forgo those that the UK doesn't like. I think any negotiations with the EU or individual EU countries will be incredibly difficult and might involve the use of the middle fingers of EU negotiators to the UK. Or is it two fingers in the reverse of the V for Victory sign? Using both hands and maybe toes!

      Your suggestion about the appointment of Johnson as Foreign Secretary then neutering him for life is interesting. I didn't think May could be that devious or smart. It may just be an unintended consequence she didn't understand but will come to realize what a smart move it was.

      --
      In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell
    3. Re:The British government looks like Duck Soup by Sesostris+III · · Score: 1

      Plus the Foreign Office's main remit (with relations outside the EU) is Trade. This has now been hived off to a new department of International Trade under Liam Fox.

      --
      You never know what is enough unless you know what is more than enough. - Blake
    4. Re:The British government looks like Duck Soup by Streetlight · · Score: 2

      I meant to add that it looks like the big banks are looking to move to Paris, at least that's what I read today. Think about it: Lloyds of London, an ancient British establishment, moving to Paris! And HSBC, Barclays, etc.! Wow.

      --
      In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell
    5. Re:The British government looks like Duck Soup by MightyMartian · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually, what European ministers is said is that Britain cannot expect open access to Europe without free movement, which, of course was one of the chief objects of the Leave camp's ire. Now it will have to be the chief Tory leaders of Leave who will have to negotiate access to European markets, and likely have to accept free movement with only nominal concessions from the EU. In other words, as everyone expected, Britain will now, like Norway, have to accept the most important facets of the Common Market, but has given up any role in shaping the underlying policies, and it will be Brexiters who will have to inform the Eurosceptics.

      No wonder Nigel Farage left UKIP. Once the UKIPers find out he sold them all an absolute load of bollocks, they'll want his head.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    6. Re:The British government looks like Duck Soup by MightyMartian · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Which is why Davis will have to negotiate free movement. It's the only way to save the City, one of Britain's major economic engines. May has a rather black sense of humor, not to mention that she intends to make the chief Tory Eurosceptics abandon every position they ever held. She is going to make them not only pay for Brexit, but make them justify all the steps that need to be taken to repair as much damage as possible.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    7. Re:The British government looks like Duck Soup by Zocalo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yeah, that's my assessment of Boris Johnson's appointment as well. The initial reaction was "WTF!?", which is pretty much the response that dominated the global media coverage of it, especially given that Theresa May's other choices seemed fairly reasonable, but when you think it over the is really just a very well crafted stab in the back for Boris. He claims to be a BrExit supporter (yet didn't actually seem to want to change much, despite his campaigning), so despite any attempts to dodge the bullets by refusing to stand for PM, he's still going to have to either demonstrate some faith in his convictions or take the heat for breaking promises. Then there's the matter of his need to go cap in hand to the various people and cultures he's insulted over the years, and all quite likely under an intense media spotlight.

      Frankly, I think this is a brilliant idea by May. She's assigned Boris a position alright, and it's "useful idiot" - someone who is going to be drawing all the media attention, while the real work goes on elsewhere (it's actually Phil Hammond, Liam Fox and David Davis that will be mostly responsible for BrExit). As you note though, despite his reputation as a buffoon, Boris is also generally regarded as someone is also fairly astute, so while this could easily be seen as giving him a rope by which to hang himself, he's also been given an opportunity to actually make it all work. Only time will tell whether this makes or breaks Boris' political career, but I don't think there's much room for middle ground.

      --
      UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
    8. Re:The British government looks like Duck Soup by Dorianny · · Score: 1

      Having to negotiate Brexit with the E.U as well as about a dozen Free Trade agreements the E.U has with various nations and will no longer apply to the U.K, is going to take all the resources the Government has at its disposal. Having the Foreign Minister play the traditional role and risking the government getting involved in International Politics it can ill afford to pay any attention to, is simply out of the question. Johnson has made it clear thru-out his carer that he disdains International Diplomacy. The role Johnson is most likely going to play is that of a Propaganda Minister, keeping the nations spirits up with his trademark vigor and charisma while insulting and frustrating those in the E.U camp that take a hard-line stance on the negotiations

    9. Re:The British government looks like Duck Soup by AmiMoJo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      May is indeed quite devious. I think these threats against big tech companies are just to soften them up for the Snooper's Charter, so they hand over data willingly rather than trying to resist. She has seen how they have been increasing the use of encryption and ensuring that they themselves can't unlock devices, and realizes that prying may be thwarted if she can't make them cooperate.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    10. Re:The British government looks like Duck Soup by monkeyxpress · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I think that is probably right. I would be scared if I was those companies though. My observations from having to deal with the UK immigration system during her tenure as home secretary, is that she is a populist who will blindly acquiesce to public opinion in order to score points. I don't think she is someone who will try to shape public opinion around her own vision. In a way, this is probably why she is the perfect Brexit prime minister for the conservatives, but it is not really leadership, and shaping Britain according to the braying of the tabloid press might keep her in power, but isn't going to lead the country to a good place.

      Will be interesting to see how this pans out.

    11. Re:The British government looks like Duck Soup by garethjrowlands · · Score: 2

      No wonder Nigel Farage left UKIP. Once the UKIPers find out he sold them all an absolute load of bollocks, they'll want his head.

      I fear it's more likely that when things get difficult, Farage will appear again to blame europeans for the new crisis. It is highly unlikely that brexiters will decide they were misled. It might be logical but it's not human nature. And brexit is all about human nature.

    12. Re:The British government looks like Duck Soup by Eunuchswear · · Score: 1

      And HSBC

      Well, the Hong Kong and Shanghai Banking Corporarion does have a habit of moving it's HQ.

      --
      Watch this Heartland Institute video
    13. Re:The British government looks like Duck Soup by oobayly · · Score: 1

      We don't even have enough trade negotiators - the few we have are working in Europe - because EU did most of of the work. The UK government is looking at getting people in from private companies, but some don't seem that keen - they'll be tearing down the agreements many of them put a lot of work into creating.

    14. Re:The British government looks like Duck Soup by Bongo · · Score: 2

      Britain will now, like Norway, have to accept the most important facets of the Common Market, but has given up any role in shaping the underlying policies.

      Which is why Norway is desperately trying to join the EU?

    15. Re:The British government looks like Duck Soup by twokay · · Score: 1

      And Hong Kong used to be a British Colony until not so long ago. It certainly has British heritage and it moving to Paris or Frankfurt would be something the British want to avoid.

      --
      Wannabe nerd.
    16. Re:The British government looks like Duck Soup by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      And HSBC

      Well, the Hong Kong and Shanghai Banking Corporarion does have a habit of moving it's HQ.

      I always thought it was High Street Bank of China, dunno where I got that from though, it's not like I ever looked them up on wiki or whatever.

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
    17. Re:The British government looks like Duck Soup by stealth_finger · · Score: 2

      No wonder Nigel Farage left UKIP. Once the UKIPers find out he sold them all an absolute load of bollocks, they'll want his head.

      UKIP is now pointless, farage just wanted out of EU, now it's happened he's shown he doesn't give a fuck what happens next, we're out, he's won and has fucked off to let everyone else deal with it.

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
    18. Re:The British government looks like Duck Soup by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Boris Johnson is the best bit, however

      I wonder if May is being even more Machiavellian than usual here. There's some talk from MPs now about pushing for a referendum on whatever post-EU deal that the UK will end up with (i.e. a rerun of the referendum, but this time with the Leave campaign having to pick something concrete to campaign about). If you send Boris to piss off all of the world leaders, then you can guarantee that we'll end up with something that's pretty horrendous in comparison to the status quo.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    19. Re:The British government looks like Duck Soup by lurcher · · Score: 1

      "I didn't think May could be that devious or smart. It may just be an unintended consequence she didn't understand but will come to realize what a smart move it was."

      I don't think you understand just how devious an smart you need to be to get near the top of the Tory party. Yes there is a lot of inherited privilege and insider dealings, but that applies to the competition as well, and May is not from the Eton set, so that makes here rise even more indicative of cunning and guile.

    20. Re:The British government looks like Duck Soup by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

      The City doesn't sell cars. It sells financial products, and right now it has unfettered access to do so in the EU. If it cannot negotiate that, then many banks and other financial institutions will get up and leave London, or at least heavily downgrade their presence.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    21. Re:The British government looks like Duck Soup by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 1

      The City doesn't sell cars... many banks and other financial institutions will get up and leave London, or at least heavily downgrade their presence.

      And Davis doesn't really seem to care, contrary to what you wrote (and hoped), maybe because he suspects that the vast majority of the British people would probably be happy if investment bankers lost their jobs. Sorry (not).

      It is not just bankers (whatever you think that name stands for) that will lose their jobs. There will be plenty of white-collar flight, you know, the middle class spenders that make the economy going. The folks who don't care are either going for a Pyrrhic victory or don't quite grasp basic economics.

      Either way, countries reap what they sow.

  4. May & Hammond... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    All they need now is Clarkson to head the transportation system.

  5. Re:She seem like a commie... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Look closer, she's a fucking terrifying neocon.

    Regarding taxation, "extortion/slavery/theft/rape that is tax" is a bit much, made me laugh. Yeah, taxes suck to pay, but they keep the world running. We all want them as low as possible. If you haven't been paying attention: The average citizen pays way more tax than some of these big companies. Sure you keep your tax bill as low as possible, but you pay your fair share or it all collapses.

  6. Re:She seem like a commie... by jezwel · · Score: 1

    Because the lowest corporate taxes in the world are ZERO%. You want them to be lower than that, to attract companies?

  7. Translation: by axewolf · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Google and Amazon are being rebuked for pushing the corruption of society a little too far into the limelight and are to be whipped back into the shadows.

    The Establishment is upset at the show they have to put on to make it seem like they are actually changing anything.

    All the newest dirtiest business of the international total surveillance state recedes into the shadows of deeper levels of military intelligence.

    Nothing really changes and everything continues in the same direction.

    Almost all of us continue to be disposable workers that in the advent of the automation of the economy will be targeted by malicious social doctrine to eventually be driven to economic/moral/spiritual poverty and/or sterility and/or suicide.

    We aren't meant to last in this society.
    Maybe it's just my opinion, but the opportunity turn things around is almost gone, and will certainly be gone at the end of the millenial generation.

    1. Re:Translation: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      This post sums up exactly what is so bad about cynicism.

      Let's start with some political basics. People who have things want to keep those things. People who don't have things, think that they should. Keep those two simple points in mind at all times. It doesn't matter whether for "things", you read "fast cars", or "money", or "power", or "sexual opportunities" - these rules are always valid.

      What does "change" mean? It means the transfer of Things from someone to someone else. (It does not mean "creating more Things", that's called "production" and it's the normal, i.e. unchanging, business of any economy.)

      In any state of change, there are lots of ways you can divide up the people. You can divide them into "winners/losers", or "leaders/led", or "aristocracy/bourgeoisie", or "establishment/insurgents", or even just "haves/have-nots". All of these divisions are valid up to a point - which is to say, they can all be used to make true and sometimes important observations - but all of them also obscure a very important part of the story. For that part, I'm going to ask you to consider the division between "prepared" vs "unprepared", or "adaptable" vs "rigid".

      It should be pretty obvious, then, that the people who benefit from a change are, to a large extent, those who are sufficiently prepared/adaptable for it. Everyone else will either lose, or at best tread water.

      What kinds of people do you think are prepared for Brexit? Clue: it's the people who've had the most leisure, resource and opportunity to make those preparations/contingency plans, i.e. the people with most resources and connections. I.e. to a large extent, "the Establishment". By definition - "the Establishment" is those people who are good at positioning themselves on top.

      Where you go wrong is in assuming this must be the result of some great eternal conspiracy to do down the underdogs. It's not. "The Establishment" isn't a conspiracy, it's just lots of greedy people looking out for number one. And when you complain that "nothing really changes", what you're saying is that the people you identify with, were not equipped to exploit the changes that happened.

      And whose fault is that, exactly?

      If you just sit around and moan that "everything continues in the same direction", then you're screwing yourself over. You're waiting for someone to come and give you a hand up. Well, this post right here? - this is the closest you're going to get. I'm telling you that what you need to change is not society, or the economy, or the system, or the establishment - it's you. So get on with it.

    2. Re: Translation: by Fwipp · · Score: 1

      Translation: "Have you tried being part of the Establishment? Maybe then you wouldn't be such a loser."

    3. Re:Translation: by somenickname · · Score: 1

      20 years ago, your post would have been modded "-10 Conspiracy Theory". Now it's basically fact so, it's kinda hard to know what to do. The majority of the public can't understand the manner in which their rights are being destroyed so, they can't really vote to protect them. I love to blame the government for our unfortunate and deteriorating situation but, really, it's ignorance that has caused it. In democratic societies, we've *always* had the ability to mold our government to do our bidding. We've just lost the will.

      When the politicians are no longer beholden to the people, you get the society that we now have. And, it's going to get worse. A lot worse. I don't care if it makes me sound like an insensitive asshole or a conspiracy theorist: I'm stocking up on popcorn.

    4. Re: Translation: by MightyMartian · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No, the translation is "Have you actually tried doing anything at all, rather than impotently whining on the Internet about how the Establishment is screwing you over, and concocting conspiracy theories whose only real purpose is to convince yourself that your apathy is a rational choice.

      Have you ever written a letter to your elected representative? Have you ever got like-minded citizens in your area together to petition other citizens in the area for letter writing campaigns or petitions, or to seek meetings with elected representatives at whatever level of government you're having issues with?

      It's so much easier to go on the Internet, mask your laziness and apathy in the form of grand conspiracies about the Man keeping you down.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    5. Re: Translation: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Have you ever written a letter to your elected representative? Have you ever got like-minded citizens in your area together to petition other citizens in the area for letter writing campaigns or petitions, or to seek meetings with elected representatives at whatever level of government you're having issues with?

      Yes, yes and yes. But why should my elected representative care about the views of a sub-$40k per year kid who doesn't have friends in high places? With the Westminster system, my representative cannot vote against the party line on any particular issue. He can try to change the party line, over time, but it's a slow process, and lobbyists can provide a continual pressure (and bribes) that I cannot afford to, so he'll change his mind anyway.

      I have hand-written letters to my representative, saying 'I strongly believe in X', and received back a form-letter saying 'we are glad you believe in Y like we do, and we remain firmly opposed to X, so you'll be happy to vote for us'. So, quite clearly, my carefully hand-written letter was not even carefully read, much less acted upon.

      I don't know what the answer is, but the 'democracy' that we have at the moment is far from ideal.

    6. Re:Translation: by ripvlan · · Score: 1

      While pushing back on bad-business that has taken advantage of "the people" is a good thing. Lately the UK seems to be taking a "we'll go this alone" tact with Brexit. There are concerns that the auto manufacturers won't have (easy) access to the EU. I heard a podcast episode on Marketplace were some of the "cheap" airlines are considering moving their headquarters outside of the UK due to fear over new policies. So will Amazon/Google exit too?

    7. Re: Translation: by axewolf · · Score: 1

      Translation: "Conform to the default standard and everything will be okay limit your responsibility to the set of opportunities that are freely offered to you and never mind if they seem inadequate it's all that you deserve"

      This site is rampant with hand-picked commentators that always seek to steer the conversation in line with a certain agenda.

      Anyway MightyMartian, you react just like a brainless animal. Why would you assume I'm doing nothing? And anyway your suggestions are incredibly naive. Translation 2: "this is what they said you should do when I was in middle school civics so let me share that wisdom with you".

      Your tiny brain actually works like this: unpopular opinion! does it have an end-all solution to the problem attached with it? NO! ITS FALSE, ITS HERESY, ITS WHINING, PUT IT DOWN, PUT IT DOWN.
      You have no realistic perception of the scope of the discussion.

    8. Re: Translation: by Fwipp · · Score: 1

      Apparently suggesting "maybe we shouldn't have a system that is designed to reward the smallest slice of the most exceptionally greedy" is a conspiracy theory to mask my impotence and apathy.

      And yeah, I've written letters to my elected congress critters, city council members, and governor. I get the usual form mails back. I've signed my share of petitions that I support and believe in, some of them succeed, some of them don't.

      It's so much easier to yell at straw men than real people, innit?

  8. Re:collectivism = death by MightyMartian · · Score: 5, Insightful

    When people start throwing around terms like "collectivism is dead" and "income tax is immoral", you know you're dealing with an ignorant Libertarian blowhard.

    Pay your fucking taxes, asshole, and quit trying to get society to underwrite your greed. That's right, society. We're social animals, not a bunch of solo hunting predators. Unless, of course you're a sociopath, then Libertarianism is very attractive, because fucking morons buy into it, and fucking morons make the best prey.

    --
    The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
  9. Re:She seem like a commie... by queazocotal · · Score: 1

    https://www.theyworkforyou.com...

  10. Re:She seem like a commie... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Conservative doesn't mean wacko like in the US, her job isn't to do amateur plastic surgery to kill the state like the US Republican strategy has been.

    That little bubble you occupy doesn't seem to have enough oxygen in it, you're (becoming?) delusional.

  11. If this is the new /. by jmd · · Score: 5, Interesting

    After many years of reading Slashdot it is time to move on.

    I am a very political person but for the most part I came here for non-political news. Just the straight up NASA did this... nVidia did that... Silicon Graphics is bought by Rackable Systems etc etc.

    The comments on Slashdot are so much more inflamatory than before. A sign that Slashdot has run its course.

    1. Re:If this is the new /. by emaname · · Score: 2

      I think you're right, jmd.

      I'm hoping this is an aberration of sorts or a reflection of the angry political dialogue that has been going on for sometime now. Nobody can be objective anymore. They're caught up in the "somebody is wrong on the internet" thing and just can't let it go until they call that "somebody" out.

      Let's get back to tech, science, etc. You know "News for Nerds."

      Anyway...

      You could say I've lost my belief in our politicians.
      They all seem like game show hosts to me.

      Sting -- If I ever lose my faith in you from the album Ten Summoner's Tales

      --
      An effective "democracy" creates the illusion the people have a say in their government.
    2. Re:If this is the new /. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Always closing your eyes while humanity in all its diverse and similar societies crumble with increasing unemployment, increasing taxes, stagnated (and receding) wages for decades, skyrocketing debt, plummeting birth rates(aging population), political (and geopolitical) and economy instability to name a big few, is a sign that perhaps you shouldn't avoid since these do affect science and technology related developments/news.

    3. Re:If this is the new /. by whipslash · · Score: 1

      May I suggest TechCrunch, Popular Science, or WIRED then? This news is important and has tech ramifications.

    4. Re:If this is the new /. by somenickname · · Score: 1

      No, it's a sign that technology, government and society have collided in such an incompatible way that a technology site has become political. I'm actually kind of shocked that you can claim to be "a very political person" and not be able to understand this. Technology *IS* politics. And vice-a-versa. Putting your head in the sand doesn't change that fact.

    5. Re:If this is the new /. by jmd · · Score: 1

      Why do you assume I am closing my eyes? You have no ideas of my political activities. /. used to be less political and more tech news reporting. I prefer to get my political news elsewhere.

    6. Re:If this is the new /. by jmd · · Score: 1

      I agree that technology has a very political side to it. My point is not to avoid political issues. My point is that /. is going down a road I wish not to drive on.

      And yes I am a very political person. And what makes you think I don't understand the political ramifications of technological developments. Have I put my head in the sand .. or did you just assume that?

      The responses to my post tell me that responders make a lot of assumptions about posters. And they are not always accurate.

    7. Re: If this is the new /. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      What about that gueen Elizabeth I or that gueen Victoria?

    8. Re:If this is the new /. by fnj · · Score: 2

      It strikes me that politics has not been emphasized on the new slashdot so much as tech has been DE-emphasized in the world at large. The halcyon glory days of tech are gone. Those huge thick issues of Byte magazine stuffed with informative articles on a rich variety of subjects. Dr. Dobb's Journal. The telephone-book-thick Computer Shoppers that let you pore over what was out there for hours. The crazy clever PC Connection advertisements. Slashdot used to report highly interesting tech happenings because they were HAPPENING.

      If the political discussion on slashdot has descended into opposing poles rabidly foaming and screaming to themselves, it has because that is what has happened to society at large.

    9. Re:If this is the new /. by fnj · · Score: 1

      And, somewhat more in the presentation flavor of slashdot: news.ycombinator.com and lobste.rs. Ars and engadget and Tech Crunch are so gaudy and flowery and ... visually HEAVY.

    10. Re:If this is the new /. by fnj · · Score: 1

      The oversimplification of the left-right dichotomy. For 99% of people, everything has to fit that false narrative. The world is full of people hammering square pegs into round holes. It's a trap I struggle to avoid, myself.

    11. Re:If this is the new /. by goose-incarnated · · Score: 2

      This, and she is not the PM yet. Hillary will be the first woman to break the glass ceiling.

      Thatcher?

      --
      I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
    12. Re:If this is the new /. by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      You know, you don't /have/ to read every story. If you don't like it, scroll down. If there isn't enough stuff to your liking, submit it yourself. That's what I do if I see something interesting to talk about.

      If all you want is a basic news feed then there are any number of tech news sites, or maybe Hacker News. You won't find the same quality of debate there, of course.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    13. Re:If this is the new /. by swb · · Score: 2

      Slashdot has always been going down hill. The Internet has been going downhill, since at least the time when AOL users began flooding USENET. What passes for "editing" is as unsophisticated as reading random Facebook shares, and always has been. You never read it here first because there's almost no original content, unless Bennett Hasselton was given the floor. It's links about links from other sites, a hall of mirrors.

      I think the purely political content without any substantive technology base has gone up, but political division is way up and people seem to want that. Since the site has long been a commercial product and not a hobby site, I guess there's some pandering to what people want (although I'm still at a loss as to how they make money on this site).

      I'm not convinced the comments are more inflammatory than before and if they are its probably driven by the inflammatory nature of the topics, but then again, Mac vs. PC was always inflammatory as anything Apple does still garnering its share of hostility here.

      I also think it's easy to miss that as you get older, the readership average probably doesn't as much. 14060 means you joined probably within days of me, 14022, what, in 199x or something? We don't see the world as we did nearly 20 years ago because it has changed and we have changed, but it's easier to see the world change than your own perception of the world changing.

    14. Re:If this is the new /. by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      After many years of reading Slashdot it is time to move on.

      All these years, and you still haven't learned how to skip stories you don't like, and have to crap the thread up by complaining instead? We won't miss you. Bye!

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    15. Re:If this is the new /. by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Let's get back to tech, science, etc. You know "News for Nerds."

      You just try and come up with a rigid definition of what is news for nerds. Go on.

      For example, I think the election of a new British PM allegedly in favour of increased electronic surveillance is of much more nerd-interest than a story about some stupid Japanese mobile game for eight year olds or the latest PR-piece in favour of Uber or Elon Musk. But each to their own.

      It would be impossible to exclude all mention of politics, religion, cars, ponies or anything else from slashdot without having some weird form of OCD-censorship.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    16. Re:If this is the new /. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Like with a hammer?

    17. Re:If this is the new /. by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Although give it 15 years and they'll be conservatives too. It's funny what the real world does to people's political views.

      If you're a conservative when you're thirty or fifty, you were a conservative when you were fifteen. The idea that all young people are radical intellectuals passionate about changing the world is pure fantasy encouraged by youth-obsessed media.

      Young or old, most people are self-centred, intellectually lazy and uninterested or afraid of change, i.e. inherently conservative.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    18. Re:If this is the new /. by colinwb · · Score: 1

      Golda Meir, Prime Minister of Israel 1969-1974
      Before that was Mrs Bandaranaike, Prime Minister of Sri Lanka from 1960 to 2000, with two interruptions. But she was the widow of a former Prime Minister. For example, the recent election of Tsai Ing-wen as President of Taiwan is the first time a woman has led an East Asian country without also being the wife or daughter of a former leader of that country.

  12. UK thinks it's economy matters, so cute by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    2.6 trillion economy isn't worth jumping through hoops for. UK has no resources the world needs other than a few pieces of intellectual property which they have much less control over now that they EU is not there to back them up.

    Really, the only long term value in the UK is intellectual property and touism. There is no world industry there that the world would miss if the UK dropped into the sea. No offence, rather it's just entirely true. They would miss the 2.6 trillion dollars, but not that much.

    For a country that has no leverage, that's pretty tough talk and it a foolish tone to set when you have no chips to bargain.

    Now the UK has opened itself to being bashed by the EU and independently by the US for Google and Amazon resistance. Good move.. what's next, maybe a trade agreement with Somalia and North Korea?

    Brexit won't be the worst thing ever, but it will be a net loss with almost zero chance of any useful gains. It's a move to gain political control, not improve the UK via policy. UK leaders have to be insane if they think they can really influence Google or Amazon. The only leverage they had was the EU, not corporations like Google can walk all over the UK. They won't, but there is no longer anything stopping them. The UK has about the same size economy as Brazil.

    When did you say to yourself.. wow Brazil.. they certainly have a lot of global influence. I like Brazil, but no, they just don't have the money or infrastructure to matter. UK is even worse because they don't have the resources to ever be likely to be a large economy again. Brazil at least has developing nation potential. The UK is more or less topped out for big gain, most likely. Unless they start piling up intellectual property perhaps.

     

    1. Re:UK thinks it's economy matters, so cute by Streetlight · · Score: 1

      Perhaps you're saying what I've been saying for a long time: I can't think what modern manufactured product the UK makes that's the best of something in the world. Maybe Rolls Royce cars, but, though individually they cost a great deal, not many can afford them and even those who can will buy a car that gets them where they need to go and invest the cost difference elsewhere. The stuff produced by their intellectual property is made overseas. I didn't say the US was much better in that regard. At least Intel designs it chips in the US and most are made in the US.

      --
      In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell
    2. Re:UK thinks it's economy matters, so cute by jonwil · · Score: 1

      What about single malt Scotch? That is made in the UK and there are plenty of people on this planet who will argue that a good single malt qualifies as up there with the best in the world when it comes to alcoholic beverages...

    3. Re: UK thinks it's economy matters, so cute by dunkelfalke · · Score: 1

      Well, to be fair, Rolls Royce aircraft engines are very good.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    4. Re:UK thinks it's economy matters, so cute by fnj · · Score: 1

      I submit the Raspberry Pi. Many have tried to copy it, and none have come close to catching up to its price/performance point and its universal acceptance defining its niche. And I say this as a devotee of the BeagleBone.

    5. Re:UK thinks it's economy matters, so cute by garethjrowlands · · Score: 1

      Rolls Royce is owned by BMW, which is not entirely british.

    6. Re:UK thinks it's economy matters, so cute by garethjrowlands · · Score: 1

      Though it is clear it wants to be part of europe.

    7. Re:UK thinks it's economy matters, so cute by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      I can't think what modern manufactured product the UK makes that's the best of something in the world.

      The UK makes precious few consumer goods. There's still a manufacturing base, but it's not huge and it's mostly for specialised, high tech kit that you probably won't have heard of unless you work in the industry.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
  13. Re:She seem like a commie... by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

    But remember that May has been a member of the government since the coalition came to power in 2010. That means she was bound by the principle of collective responsibility among the Cabinet, so she will have voted in line with official government policy on just about everything. Her voting record in recent years is more an indictment of the overall government policy than a useful indication of her own views on most of those issues.

    --
    If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
  14. Re:collectivism = death by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

    Not really a troll. While updating laws for taxes is fine, blowing the horn to charge! against business is an age old BS play by politicians.

    I haven't heard anything this idiotic from a politician since the 1990s and Hillary Clinton was running around raging at "the unconscionable profits" of drug companies who have saved billions of lives.

    What a piece of work are these power-hungry politicians.

    --
    (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
  15. Top Gear by Roger+W+Moore · · Score: 1

    Actually it is more like Top Gear: they have Hammond and May all they need now is Clarkson although Boris might not be a bad stand in.

  16. Re:collectivism = death by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    ...and this kids, is why you don't smoke crack.

  17. Re:Dear Theresa... by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

    "We're also very busy moving what assets we have in the UK to the EU."

    If you move them by truck, pay close attention to who is driving that truck.

  18. You must be new here. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    You must be new here.

    Slashdot has been political since day one.

    1. Re:You must be new here. by jmd · · Score: 1

      Well no. Not new on /. My member number is 14060 and I had been a regular reader before I signed up.

  19. Re:She seem like a commie... by MightyMartian · · Score: 5, Informative

    I think Americans at least get a little confused at how a Parliamentary system works (so, to, do a lot of Canadians, Brits, Australians and so forth, mind you). If a vote isn't a free vote, then MPs for each party are bound to vote in line with the party. If it is a crucial vote, like a confidence motion, then a three line whip will be used, and if an MP defies even that, well they can be expelled from their party. For a cabinet minister, however, it is even more severe. A cabinet minister must, on all government bills, whether they are free votes for all other MPs, support the government bill. This is a longstanding Westminster tradition, and if a cabinet minister cannot back a government bill or motion, then the cabinet minister must resign.

    in addition cabinet ministers are bound not to reveal cabinet debates or the results of those debates. The Government in a Westminster Parliament must remain united, and if a cabinet minister simply cannot abide the decisions of Cabinet, again, they're only choice is to resign. This is not such a different arrangement from how the US cabinet works, and that was modeled on how the British government still at least partially functioned by the time of the American Revolution (although Westminster was well on its way to its modern form even then).

    The reason for this dates far back in Westminster constitutional history. Up until the 18th century the King would name his cabinet, which would serve in His name. And so it still is. Why the Prime Minister and his or her cabinet are chosen from sitting MPs and Peers, they are sworn into the Privy Council (an older governing body of which the Cabinet is a part), and the deliberations of the Privy Council, be in effect advice to the Sovereign, are generally kept secret.

    So the intent of this long-winded explanation is to state that you cannot judge Theresa May entirely by the votes she cast over the last six years. She was bound by practice and convention to side with her fellow Cabinet Ministers, and generally has not enjoyed the right to public criticize those Ministers (though during the 2010-2015 Coalition, that practice was often ignored in subtle and not so subtle ways). In fact, little enough is known of May's views, and a lot of British political observers are quoting a Rumsfeldism, she is a "known unknown".

    --
    The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
  20. Re:She seem like a commie... by Bartles · · Score: 1

    I hope you don't buy anything from corporations. Because you're basically asking to have your taxes raised.

  21. Re:She seem like a commie... by MightyMartian · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This idea that taxes, or indeed any law, require every individual's consent is utterly absurd. First of all, it would make government completely unworkable.

    But more to the point, what was meant by the Revolutionaries when they said "No taxation without representation", or in the Westminster tradition of "responsible government" wasn't that you didn't have to pay taxes, it was that no tax could be imposed without the consent of the GOVERNED. That doesn't mean that you, I and every other taxpayer get a veto on the taxes we'll pay, it means we elect representatives who will then create the taxes, and if we don't like the taxes being levied, then our right as citizens is to try to get people elected who will more closely align with our views on taxation matters.

    Citizenship confers not only rights, but inherently it confers obligations. You have the right to vote for your representatives, but you have the obligation to abide by their lawful and constitutional powers to pass laws, including tax laws. If you feel you have been unjustly treated, you have the right to petition the government or to seek redress through the courts.

    So there is no theft. You are taxed by people who a conferred the right to enact and collect taxes by the consent of the governed, which is you and all your fellow citizens collectively.

    --
    The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
  22. Re:She seem like a commie... by MightyMartian · · Score: 2

    Ah the religion of Libertarianism. As fantastical and absurd as Communism and Anarchism.

    --
    The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
  23. Re:collectivism = death by somenickname · · Score: 2

    I don't necessarily agree with your argument but, I do *very* much appreciate the manner in which you have presented it. The tactical use of "fuck" and "shit" is commendable. Just the right amount of grammatical correctness with a healthy dose of genuine anger. We need more... oh, shit... you're a Martian. Nevermind.

  24. Re:collectivism = death by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

    No, economics does not show that. Economics shows that cooperation coupled with some promise of profit can enhance enterprises, but both economics and psychology show where greed becomes the primary motivator, people begin to behave in fundamentally immoral ways.

    --
    The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
  25. Now I know how the rest of the world feels... by MikeTheGreat · · Score: 2

    ...when there's a Slashdot article about the U.S.
    This political story is nice and all, but none of these names even ring a bell, let alone mean anything :)

    1. Re:Now I know how the rest of the world feels... by fnj · · Score: 1

      I have the opposite feeling. The article and discussion are greatly informative to me, and I welcome it.

    2. Re:Now I know how the rest of the world feels... by MikeTheGreat · · Score: 1

      The article is fine, and it's actually nice to see something that's written some a more diverse (at least, non-US) perspective. It really struck me, and caused me to think about how all y'all non-US people must see all the (other) politics articles here on /.

    3. Re:Now I know how the rest of the world feels... by MikeTheGreat · · Score: 1

      Next time I'm going to be more clear about what I'm trying to convey.

      I wasn't criticizing the summary, I was amused by it, and then reflected that most non-US visitor probably feel like this all the time.

      Clearly I need to use more smiley faces next time. :) :) :) :)

  26. Re:She seem like a commie... by mrbester · · Score: 2

    And when these taxes are introduced as a temporary measure, to pay for Napoleonic wars and the like as income tax is, but remain enacted for perpetuity, that right is abused and should be rescinded. It has turned into a tithe, which was considered A Bad Thing centuries ago when it was conducted by the Church.

    --
    "Wait. Something's happening. It's opening up! My God, it's full of apricots!"
  27. Re: She seem like a commie... by dunkelfalke · · Score: 1

    You are being inconsistent. The notion that the government has to protect property rights is completely arbitrary. Why not leave it to the market as well?

    --
    "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
  28. Re: She seem like a commie... by dunkelfalke · · Score: 2

    The customers are already paying whatever the market can bear. Raising the prices would result in fewer sales, hence corporations have to pay taxes out of their profits.

    --
    "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
  29. Death and Taxes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    What would you call this taking money by force from me

    I'd call it one of the "two inevitabilities."

  30. Re:She seem like a commie... by Hylandr · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The Tax is the amount society pays it's people in Government services and infrastructure.

    The less corporations pay in tax deprives the society that supports it.

    --
    ~ People that think they are better than anyone else for any reason are the cause of all the strife in the world.
  31. Bad move by nospam007 · · Score: 1

    Way to go.
    Wait until Google pumps a few billions in the Scotland and Northern Ireland Independence campaigns.

  32. Re:She seem like a commie... by Hognoxious · · Score: 2

    I suspect he isn't talking about the US, given that their involvement in the Napoleonic wars is generally considered to be somewhere between none and not very much.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  33. Re:She seem like a commie... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Good post, informative, correct. Thanks.

    Just to point out - the time for a cabinet minister to disagree with a policy is "in the cabinet meetings". So cabinet ministers have enormous influence at that point.... but after that, they must put up or get out. And thus, as you say, the voting record is not a good guide.

  34. Re:She seem like a commie... by jandersen · · Score: 1

    Rather than whining at firms that add so much value to your society ... the extortion/slavery/theft/rape that is tax.

    Yeah, having to pay your fair share of the upkeep of society, from whose infrastructure and other facilities you benefit, is just so unfair. Why can't those bloody commies see that it is much more reasonable to let the poor and the middle class pay for it? As for whining - you sound exactly like some sort of teenager whining about how unfair it is that you have to clean up the mess in your room, wash your own clothes and contribute a bit to the household in general.

    If the companies don't like it, they can just move out, IMO. There are plenty that find the UK attractive enough, and if the big ones move away, then there will be more room for a larger number of smaller ones instead. Companies like Google and Amazon don't add much value to UK apart from the value of the employment they offer; smaller businesses add much more to society than just employment; just take the many, small to tiny startups around Cambridge Science Park and the enormous value they add to UK in terms of science and innovation. I'd say, get rid of the Googles and the Amazons and get more of the really valuable businesses.

  35. First tried in New Zealand by monkeyxpress · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Boris Johnson is the best bit

    In New Zealand, the former prime minister Helen Clark did a similar thing to the leader of a fringe coalition partner (NZ uses MMP, so small parties frequently hold the balance of power). The guy, Winston Peters, was a known charismatic trouble maker (sound familiar?) and rose to power mostly by blaming immigrants for stealing jobs. So she made him foreign minister. It completely shut him down, as he was out of the country most of the time, had to put on a serious face so he didn't become the laughing stock of the world, and was hobbled in his ability to portray people from other countries as troublesome. It was an incredibly successful strategy, and he ended up doing an okay job of it.

    However I wouldn't read so much into it being an attempt to destroy Boris. The foreign minister is largely a PR role, which Boris will be quite good at once he has apologized to everyone, and I think he has enough political nous to ensure nothing serious around Brexit can be pinned on him.

    Leadsom and Davis on the other hand, have found themselves holding the poison chalice.

  36. Re:She seem like a commie... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    With the difference that is even easier to see how it would fail.

    They tend to forget that if everything is by market then the richest will become dictators.. and therefore a form of government.

  37. Re:Rubbish by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I think the biggest irony is that she's conveniently forgetting places like the Cayman Island and Gournsey, some of the biggest tax havens under de facto British rule. It's alright to go after tax dodging companies, but for fucks sake, clean out your own backyard first!

  38. Surprise? Try incredulity. by Eunuchswear · · Score: 1

    Boris Johnson -- to the surprise of many -- now heads up the foreign office.

    Surprise is not exactly the word. The State Department spokesman had a hard time not laughing.

    --
    Watch this Heartland Institute video
  39. Re:She seem like a commie... by Eunuchswear · · Score: 1

    Nah, he was offering you some seasoned chopped liver to eat.

    --
    Watch this Heartland Institute video
  40. Re:collectivism = death by garethjrowlands · · Score: 1

    ... Libertarianism requires knowledge to appreciate .... Communism requires none...

    You're trying to imply the poster is a communist when all you know is he's not a Libertarian. It's not an either/or: most political positions are neither Libertarian nor Communism. Both Libertarian and Communism are politically extreme. In my opinion, and the opinion of many others, both lead to bad outcomes.

  41. Re:Hey Amazon, Hey Google by goose-incarnated · · Score: 2

    Pull out, full stop. Show the world what happens to a country that cannibalizes itself through jingoist nationalism. Please, before it spreads across the pond.

    The value provided by the Amazons and Googles of the world to the UK is... what, exactly? A few thousand (or less) jobs, maybe. That's it. The value they get is far in excess of that due to not paying their share of taxes.

    --
    I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
  42. Re:She seem like a commie... by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

    Nice simple talking point. Just remember that in the USA the Southern states regarded ownership of slaves as a 'property right'. Is that where you think the government should draw the line (it's fine to own people)? If not, then what about putting them in the kind of indentured servitude where they're nominally not slaves but can't ever afford to leave or they'll starve to death?

    Libertarians are the most boring of the political factions. At least the others want to make new mistakes.

    --
    I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  43. Re:She seem like a commie... by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

    Everything else, including you precious roads can be better provided by markets.

    I think that's the wrong way around. I'd say no for profit service can be as good as a public service can be.

    --
    Wanna buy a shirt?
    https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
  44. Re:She seem like a commie... by Greystripe · · Score: 1

    Meanwhile, democratic government comes under regular scrutiny - if you're not efficient, you're voted out.

    Not sure if you truly believe this or you are trolling...

  45. Re:She seem like a commie... by houghi · · Score: 1

    Citizenship confers not only rights, but inherently it confers obligations. You have the right to vote for your representatives

    In Belgium voting is not a right, it is an obligation. Well, as voting is secret, voting is not the requirement, but showing up is. If you don't vote or cast a non-valid valid vote does not matter.

    Obviously there are some exceptions. If you work, you need a proof of your boss that you work. Voting is done on Sunday, so good luck with that. If you are on a holiday, you can get a proof from your travel agent.
    If you do not show up, they can fine you.

    Now here is the fun part. They can order you to sit at the voting booth. Most of the times they will order young lawyers and teachers, but if there are not enough, they might draft you. And it gets better. If there are not enough people to do the job, they can and will take the first people who come into the door and seem fit to do it, so do not go voting too early.

    Now this is just an explanation how it works in other countries, not a request to discuss if voting should be a right or an obligation. We have those here already.

    --
    Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
  46. Re:She seem like a commie... by misexistentialist · · Score: 1

    You have the right to vote for your representatives, but you have the obligation to abide by their lawful and constitutional powers

    A little bit of asymmetry between a vote to give a pre-selected candidate a job and the control the voter's entire life. Regardless of what government needs to be "workable" or what "fellow citizens" supposedly decided, every man has his own choice. Granted he could conclude that he's actually wealthier due to taxes, though that calculation is questionable for many

  47. Re:She seem like a commie... by sumdumass · · Score: 1

    Dividends is what should be taxed. But that is taxing the owners of the corporation and not the corporation.

    Corporations, as well as any properly run business is already considering their tax obligations when budgeting. It only takes from their income when the rate unexpectedly changes before year end. Make no mistake, they already have accounted for their tax obligations before reporting income.

  48. Re:She seem like a commie... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

    So the intent of this long-winded explanation is to state that you cannot judge Theresa May entirely by the votes she cast over the last six years. She was bound by practice and convention

    That's a great excuse, but a garbage explanation. Tradition is never sufficient justification for anything.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  49. 1984 by Midnight+Thunder · · Score: 1

    With the way things are going I feel we are getting closer to the description of 1984, than ever. Brexit just allowed the government to be uncountable and the country a non-team player. Who knew George Orwell's vision would start with a nannie state?

    --
    Jumpstart the tartan drive.
  50. Re:She seem like a commie... by tehcyder · · Score: 1

    So the intent of this long-winded explanation is to state that you cannot judge Theresa May entirely by the votes she cast over the last six years. She was bound by practice and convention

    That's a great excuse, but a garbage explanation. Tradition is never sufficient justification for anything.

    If she had not gone along with that tradition, she would have lost her job. Anyway, it seems like an entirely reasonable tradition to me: if you are a member of the government, you should be 100% behind government policy, and if you're not then you should resign.

    --
    To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  51. Re:She seem like a commie... by parkinglot777 · · Score: 2

    Wrong! With less corporate tax, more money get spent on productive uses, and in a more efficient way than if government were to spend it, i.e. without the huge dead-weight loss of government, which has been estimated up to 30-40 cents per dollar, depending on the activity. So more jobs, higher standards of living, less deprivation, etc.

    I disagree with what you said because it is too strong statement -- money from less corporate taxes would be spent in more productive/efficient way than government. It can go either way and is depended on how far you want to look at in the future. I agree that government spending is likely to be in a wrong direction, but that does not mean private/corporate spending is likely to go to the right direction. What have we been seeing how corporates spend their money so far? What is their business model? And what is "more efficient way" in your definition? Are you benefiting from the way they do their business (e.g. you are a CEO)?

  52. Re:She seem like a commie... by bev_tech_rob · · Score: 1

    Conservative doesn't mean wacko like in the US, her job isn't to do amateur plastic surgery to kill the state like the US Republican strategy has been.

    That little bubble you occupy doesn't seem to have enough oxygen in it, you're (becoming?) delusional.

    Sounds like you are talking about yourself..

    --
    You're messin' with my Zen Thing, man.....
  53. Re:She seem like a commie... by bev_tech_rob · · Score: 1

    Conservative doesn't mean wacko like in the US

    And it's high time conservatives reclaim the title from the wackos

    That might happen if Trump wins the election in November.

    --
    You're messin' with my Zen Thing, man.....
  54. Re:She seem like a commie... by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

    Cabinet ministers are appointed by the Prime Minister, and can be dismissed just as easily. The principle of collective responsibility among the Cabinet is considered very important in our politics, and anyone breaking it almost certainly would be out of the Cabinet soon afterwards.

    The now-ex minister would still be an MP -- the PM has no power to fire someone elected by their constituents from Parliament -- and they could still freely criticise whatever they wanted from the back benches. But the honourable way to do that as an MP is to resign from the Cabinet first so it's clear that you're not speaking for the government any more. Giving a public resignation statement explaining why you can't support the Cabinet's position is also common practice.

    --
    If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
  55. Re:She seem like a commie... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

    Anyway, it seems like an entirely reasonable tradition to me: if you are a member of the government, you should be 100% behind government policy, and if you're not then you should resign.

    My country, right or wrong! Hint: that's not a democracy.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  56. Re:She seem like a commie... by jafiwam · · Score: 1

    Interesting how the leftist supporting large businesses are now being attacked by the leftist-socialists they support.

    Reminds me of a quote "Watching someone shoot themselves in the boot is less amusing when said boot is on your neck."

  57. Re:She seem like a commie... by mjwx · · Score: 1

    So there is no theft. You are taxed by people who a conferred the right to enact and collect taxes by the consent of the governed, which is you and all your fellow citizens collectively.

    This.

    You also, in a democracy, have the right to run on a "abolish taxes" platform. You will get a few votes from people who have no clue but for the most part people wont vote for you because they know taxes pay for all the things they cant live without like police, fire brigades, armies, rail, roads, sanitation, water and other infrastructure.

    --
    Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  58. Re:She seem like a commie... by dryeo · · Score: 1

    Of course it's a democracy. The people vote for their MP, usually based on party, the MP gets a say in caucus about how to run things, the party governs. If the party can't govern, eg lets say that they fail to pass a budget, the people get to vote again. It's actually possible to have multiple elections in a year rather then being stuck with a government without the support of the peoples representatives.

    --
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
  59. Re:She seem like a commie... by dryeo · · Score: 2

    You have that backwards. Think about it. Drop corporate taxes to zero and raise the workers taxes to 90%-99.9%. Now the corporation has to pay the janitor $200,000 so he can take home $20,000 and pay the CEO one billion so he can take home a million. This is whether the corporation is profitable or not.

    --
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
  60. Boris and Erdogan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Boris Johnson's prize winning entry to the Spectator’s President Erdogan Offensive Poetry competition:

    There was a young fellow from Ankara
    Who was a terrific wankerer
    Till he sowed his wild oats
    With the help of a goat
    But he didn’t even stop to thankera.

    Minister of Bantz.

  61. Re:She seem like a commie... by swillden · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The Tax is the amount society pays it's people in Government services and infrastructure.

    The less corporations pay in tax deprives the society that supports it.

    Sigh.

    Corporations. Don't. Pay. Taxes.

    Look, this is basic economics. Capital seeks a certain rate of return in given economic conditions and a given economic context. When you raise taxes on corporations, you don't change that sought rate of return, which means that corporate governance adapts to shift the cost of the taxes elsewhere, so they don't come out of profits and returns meet expectations. Corporations that fail to do this lose, and their capital moves to others that do it well.

    This means that any taxes you nominally assess to corporations actually land on suppliers, employees or customers. In many cases suppliers and customers are other corporations subject to the same demands of capital, so they just shuffle the costs off further. At the end, it always lands on employees and customers. In the short term profits may take a hit, which drops the cost onto investors, but that's a temporary situation.

    The bottom line, then, is that corporate taxes are all ultimately paid by individuals. Actually, this should be utterly obvious even without looking at the detailed mechanisms: corporations aren't real, they're just a mechanism for pooling individual wealth to accomplish larger goals than any individual could... but the products are all ultimately consumed by people, the owners are all ultimately people, and so the taxes all ultimately land on individuals -- voters.

    That means that corporate taxation is just a way to impose hidden taxes on voters. Taxes that they pay but don't know they pay, and taxes that are allocated fairly randomly, and likely rather regressively. Corporate taxes are a bad idea and we should abolish them, instead raising capital gains taxes and the top marginal income tax rates.

    --
    Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
  62. Re:collectivism = death by dunkelfalke · · Score: 2

    I have news for you. Karl Marx invented the best scientific method of its time, which was only superseded by the method of Karl Popper. He also developed the first actually scientific theory of money circulation. USSR had the largest anti-illiteracy campaign in the world which resulted in Russia's literacy raising from less than 30% to 99.6%.
    In comparison, libertarianism is not scientific at all, it is more like a cult.

    --
    "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
  63. Re:She seem like a commie... by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

    There is a punishment. If a cabinet minister were to openly revolt against the Government, and did not resign, then the Prime Minister would advise the Queen (or Governor General in Commonwealth Realms, or President in parliamentary republics) to have the cabinet minister dismissed.

    And it should be noted that even after someone is left Cabinet, they are still bound by their oaths, and cannot reveal the matters that were discussed while they were members of cabinet.

    --
    The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
  64. Re:She seem like a commie... by painandgreed · · Score: 1

    Conservative doesn't mean wacko like in the US

    And it's high time conservatives reclaim the title from the wackos

    That might happen if Trump wins the election in November.

    +1 Funny

  65. Re:collectivism = death by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

    No, Libertarians are either greedy sociopaths or retards. Societies much beyond hunter gatherer require government and taxation to function, and anyone who thinks differently is just a plan fucking moron.

    --
    The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
  66. Irony... by TemporalBeing · · Score: 1

    while former London mayor and key Brexit campaigner Boris Johnson -- to the surprise of many -- now heads up the foreign office

    A wonderfully ironic thing to do. Take the person pushing for something and say "here, now you can deal with any consequences". Might make the next person think twice.

    --
    Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. - Elvis Presley (source: imdb.com)
  67. Re:She seem like a commie... by HiThere · · Score: 1

    Well, yes, but I think you'd need to go back to the late 1940's to find an actual conservative in high office.

    A conservative is supposed to be one who conserves what is good about the current system. Not someone with wild ideas about how to take things "back to the good old days". That *never* works.

    I used to describe myself as a conservative, but these days when I look around I don't see the good parts of the system being sufficient to be fixed. I sure wish I still did. So now I can't call myself conservative anymore. I want to do wild things like requiring working examples submitted with each patent request (which means source code and build tools for software). I want to restrict copyrights to 17 years...and doubt that thats enough of a restriction. I want to remove the personhood of corporations. These aren't conservative positions, because they aren't characteristic of the current state of affairs. Just "once upon a time" being conservative doesn't mean that they are now conservative.

    --

    I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
  68. Re:She seem like a commie... by HiThere · · Score: 1

    The assertion that private industry is more efficient than government has many counter-examples. There are other reasons to prefer private industry in anything that isn't a natural monopoly, but efficiency isn't one of them. Government can actually be more efficient that private industry usually is in a monopoly situation. They could probably be as efficient as a private industry in any situation if they weren't so concerned with fraud. Fraud *is* a big problem, but, when fraud is controlled, red tape can grow into a worse problem. Red tape is what lead to the $5,000 hammer. Somebody couldn't just run down to the hardware store and pick one up, because it needed justification, and the corp. wasn't willing to do the red tape for any cheaper price.

    I would go so far as to assert that whenever any industry becomes an actual monopoly (say one player with more than 75% of the market, but be explicit in defining what "the market" means) the main company should be nationalized. But that the smaller players be allowed to continue to compete wherever they can. The large player is going to cease development anyway, and concentrate on market dominance, whereas the government has less motive to concentrate on market dominance.

    The problem with this, of course, is that it concentrates power into the government...but it's already got a monopoly on the legal use of force (that being the definition of a government). And it's hard to imagine a government being more intrusive than corporations have already shown themselves eager to be. (Still, that's a part of the reason that I proposed that minor players be continued to be allowed to compete.)

    As a further note, this nationalization should not be seen as a punitive measure. It should be a buyout. Any punitive measures should be for laws that were broken. This is tricky, as if a nationalization were expected it would drive up the stock price, so the price should be set as the value 6 months (1 year?) before the nationalization was decided upon.

    --

    I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
  69. Re:She seem like a commie... by HiThere · · Score: 1

    I don't think that argument works for companies that are multinationals. They might decide to leave a particular country, but if they do they're allowing competition to grow unless that country is actually unprofitable.

    I'm not even sure it works in companies that operate entirely in an area covered by one particular set of tax laws. Certainly they want as much profit as they can get, but that's different from saying that if they don't get as much as they want they'll quit doing business.

    Now you may be saying that investors will prefer to invest where they get the maximum return, and that's generally true, but that's a very different statement than a statement about what a company will do, or even what a particular investor will do. Some people, e.g., invest in an area because that's what they are interested in or where they are knowledgeable.

    --

    I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
  70. Re: She seem like a commie... by HiThere · · Score: 1

    And it's worth noting that the agreement to the Louisiana Purchase was illegal. He didn't have the authority, and Congress didn't give permission. (I don't think they even gave permission afterwards, but they generally agreed it was a good idea.)

    --

    I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
  71. Re:She seem like a commie... by HiThere · · Score: 1

    This is highly case dependent. There are purposes for which government is so far superior to private groups that any comparison is silly. And also the other way around. The problem is in the huge middle ground.

    My feeling is that any monopoly should be owned and operated by the government...and that it should be forbidden to suppress competition. But the devil is in the details. Does that mean it should charge exorbitant prices? Well, no... So what *does* it mean?

    --

    I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
  72. Just Leave Dr Who Alone by chriswininger · · Score: 1

    As a US citizen at first I wasn't too worried about this Brexit stuff, but now that we're bringing the "future of the BBC" into it I am getting very concerned about what this might do to Britons Doctor Who exports and any drop in supply there is going to have grave consequences across the pond!

  73. Re:She seem like a commie... by wyHunter · · Score: 1

    This. I'm tired of wackos calling themselves conservatives when they should be calling themselves progressives, because that is what they act like.

  74. Re:She seem like a commie... by swillden · · Score: 1

    I don't think that argument works for companies that are multinationals.

    It's especially important for multinationals, because they have lots of options to avoid paying taxes. This gives them an artificial advantage over non-transnational corporations who don't have the same escape hatches. If you want to tax them where they build stuff, tax incomes. If you want to tax them where there capital comes from, tax gains. If you want to tax them where they sell stuff, tax sales.

    Certainly they want as much profit as they can get, but that's different from saying that if they don't get as much as they want they'll quit doing business.

    In a competitive market, they get only as much profit as that expected rate of return, in the long run. Why? Because if they make larger profits, their competitors can undersell them. If they make smaller profits, they can't attract capital and their competitors who can squeeze them out.

    Now you may be saying that investors will prefer to invest where they get the maximum return, and that's generally true, but that's a very different statement than a statement about what a company will do, or even what a particular investor will do.

    In isolated cases, for a short period of time, sure. Over the entire economy, and in the long run, no.

    --
    Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
  75. Re:She seem like a commie... by Darinbob · · Score: 1

    People seem to forget just how awful the good old days actually were. There's a nostalgia filter that clouds the view looking backwards. People remember when they were kids and life was great, but that's because they were often protected and shielded from what was really going on and had few responsibilities. Especially looking back to the 40s to 60s they looked pretty good if you were white and middle class, but they pretty sucky if you a minority or poor.

  76. Re:She seem like a commie... by Hylandr · · Score: 1

    You're not an accountant or economist by any stretch of the imagination.

    The cost of doing business is a tax write off.

    re-run that through your statement above and see how well that fits.

    --
    ~ People that think they are better than anyone else for any reason are the cause of all the strife in the world.
  77. Re:She seem like a commie... by swillden · · Score: 1

    You're not an accountant or economist by any stretch of the imagination.

    The cost of doing business is a tax write off.

    re-run that through your statement above and see how well that fits.

    That makes absolutely no difference to any of what I wrote. Perhaps you should re-read it.

    --
    Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
  78. Re: She seem like a commie... by sumdumass · · Score: 1

    Not really. You don't see products rising and falling in price all the time because they set price points based on all their expenses including any projected tax liability. You can even see this localized with fast food restaurants where in a small town the prices might be more or less than in another town. This is often due to localized tax burdens. You can even see this within a major metropolitan area consisting of several political divisions.

  79. Re:She seem like a commie... by sumdumass · · Score: 1

    More than likely the more efficient process will be tax dodging or outsourcing and importing.

    There are few breakthroughs that can make processes better or more efficient. Materials and processes are largely understood

  80. Re:collectivism = death by Rakarra · · Score: 1

    When you see someone whining about "Libertarian blowhards" and assuming that taxation = society you know you're dealing with a statist psycopath. These are the kinds of idiots that would support the population controls of Logan's run provided it was the will of their darling elitist masters.

    I love your strawmen, AC. They're so evocative!

  81. Re:She seem like a commie... by Hylandr · · Score: 1

    Go find some books or college classes on business and read them or attend the classes. Then come look at what you posted in a couple years.

    --
    ~ People that think they are better than anyone else for any reason are the cause of all the strife in the world.
  82. "Nobody goes the club anymore, it's too crowded" by Uberbah · · Score: 1

    I am a very political person but for the most part I came here for non-political news. Just the straight up NASA did this... nVidia did that... Silicon Graphics is bought by Rackable Systems etc etc.

    Then....have you considered....scrolling down to the articles on NASA etc? I DGAF about the story on Pokemon go, but you don't see me in there whining about it like a hipster wanker.

  83. Re:She seem like a commie... by Uberbah · · Score: 1

    Corporations. Don't. Pay. Taxes.

    Look, this is basic economics. Capital seeks a certain rate of return in given economic conditions and a given economic context. When you raise taxes on corporations, you don't change that sought rate of return, which means that corporate governance adapts to shift the cost of the taxes elsewhere, so they don't come out of profits and returns meet expectations. Corporations that fail to do this lose, and their capital moves to others that do it well. This means that any taxes you nominally assess to corporations actually land on suppliers, employees or customers.

    Except that's all basic capitalist bullshit. If corporations could make more money by squeezing suppliers, employees and customers, they would just fucking do it and not wait for an excuse to do so.

    You bray on, thinking your some kind of wise sage, yet you've never heard of the remedial economic principle that all prices are set to maximize revenue. You really think that companies are sitting on their current pricing structure, when an increase of 3%, 5%, 25%, whatever, would bring in more profit without losing more customers than it was worth?

    Really?

  84. Re:Virtue signaling kleptomaniac much? by Uberbah · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Taxation is immoral

    Civilization costs money.

    it's the extortion of money through threat of force of arms.

    That describes capitalism and unearned wealth, not taxation.

  85. Re: She seem like a commie... by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

    Fair point, I was thinking of military matters.

    The funny thing is that Louisiana wasn't France's to sell. Cheeky bastards.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  86. Re:She seem like a commie... by sumdumass · · Score: 1

    What is hilarious is that you somehow gained that insight from what I said.

    Innovation in manufacturing seems to be largely automation and outsourcing. Services industries are doing the same with the exception of using software to help in the automation. Do you think that would be true if they were constantly refining processes and finding ways to do the same work more efficiently or effectively?

  87. Apple criminals by Occams · · Score: 1

    Apple in Australia pays an Irish subsidiary the Australian market price for apple products. This means that Apple Australia it makes no profit from selling them on the Australian market: even a loss. Of course Apple in Ireland makeas a huge profit. So Apple Australia pays no tax to the Australian Government. This is tax evasion at its very worst. Australia has to find a way to string Apple up by its balls.

    --
    Heavy is the head that wears the tinfoil hat.