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Brazil Judge Orders Phone Carriers To Block WhatsApp Message App (reuters.com)
A Brazilian judge has ordered wireless phone carriers to block access to Facebook's WhatsApp indefinitely, starting on Tuesday, the third such incident against the popular phone messaging app in eight months. Reuters report: The decision by Judge Daniela Barbosa Assuncao de Souza in the southeastern state of Rio de Janeiro applies to Brazil's five wireless carriers. The reason for the order was not known due to legal secrecy in an ongoing case, and will only be lifted once Facebook surrenders data, Souza's office said. Sao Paulo-based representatives at WhatsApp, which is owned by Facebook Inc, as well as the Brazilian five carriers -- Telefonica Brasil SA, America Movil SAB's Claro, TIM Participacoes SA, Oi SA and Nextel Participacoes SA.
I'm sure this doesn't have anything to do with it...
[nt]
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Just a reminder, that the US seems on track to surrender its control of the Internet to an "International Body" — despite some lawmakers trying to prevent the Administration from doing it.
Countries like this — and even worse ones, where citizens' access is already tightly controlled or where "hate speech" is illegal — will now have more say over how the Network is run.
(If you were going to reply pointing out, FBI's attempt to unlock a dead terrorist's iPhone is "just as bad" — don't...)
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
My guess is that Brazilian authorities want personal information on a citizen from Facebook and Facebook will not comply. I hope the judge is ready for the repercussions of his decision. If this goes through I look for mass protests and the call for the removal of the judge. There is almost no way Facebook can't come out this smelling like a rose.
You say things that offend me and I can deal with it. Can you?
It's Brazil that's being blocked. Doh!
Requiem for the American Dream
In consideration of:-
1/ the fact that due to massively expensive texting costs that Brazilian carriers place on customers ~96% of them use Whatsapp.
2/ Whatsapp just happens to offer full e2e strong encryption.
3/ Criminals want to save money also.
So criminals use whatsapp to communicate, thus thwarting legal interception.
I would suggest to the Judge that the root problem is not Whatsapp but the government supported telecoms carriers who forced this situation to exist.
Also, seriously Judges. Someone needs to go down there and teach them the meaning of impossible.
They use the Signal protocol: https://whispersystems.org/blo...
How are they going to "block" this app?
Prevent WhatsApp traffic from transiting phone carrier networks? Doesn't affect Wi-Fi, then. Prevent WhatsApp traffic from transiting any network? That would need the Great Wall of Amazonia, which doesn't exist. Any traffic to WhatsApp servers? By IP block? By routing blackhole? By DNS block? That might work if they can get every net provider to agree. Until the next version incorporates a workaround.
Maybe the judge has no idea, and neither do the folks who are supposed to implement it.
Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
"Slow snakesssss missed their flight so aren't on a plane"
Requiem for the American Dream
All telecom carriers on Brazil must block access to WhatsApp servers. 3G/4G, and cable are affected. The only Brazilian users still with WhatsApp access are those using a proxy or VPN server outside Brazil. Like me.
It's blatantly obvious that the judge has no clue. Because yes, in theory Facebook could implement what he is asking for. But it would accomplish exactly nothing. end-to-end encryption can be done before and after data enters that stream (you just have to add another layer), it would piss off other customers (which is certainly not in FBs interest) and in the end nobody wins. The judge doesn't get his data despite causing a lot of backlash against him (because the people will NOT like this ruling) and FB loses customers.
Just another example of people making rules over things they don't even remotely understand.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
You may call it "ignorance" all you want, but is the blockade working? If so, then what is ""ignorant" about it?
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
Probably not. Everyone knows you can run your apps over wifi. Blocking it at the carrier won't work. Now are they going to block ALL internet access? Good luck with that.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
Prevent WhatsApp traffic from transiting phone carrier networks? Doesn't affect Wi-Fi, then....Maybe the judge has no idea, and neither do the folks who are supposed to implement it.
Neither do you if you think the wifi networks aren't connected to the internet through the phone carriers.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
Everyone knows you can run your apps over wifi.
OMG!
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
Well, let's get specific.
The decision by Judge Daniela Barbosa Assuncao de Souza in the southeastern state of Rio de Janeiro applies to Brazil's five wireless carriers.
Are the "five wireless carriers" also significant land network providers? Primary long-haul infrastructure? I could imagine it, given how networks and network ownership tend to consolidate, but is it the case here? Because if my home network isn't provisioned by one of the five carriers under orders, to stop my use of WhatsApp they'd have to block it within the core network, and not just at the "wireless carrier" level.
The devil is always in the details. As pointed out in another reply, it appears this judge hasn't heard of VPN, so there is that.
Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
It would be amusing if Whatsapp were to stand some servers up on all the major cloud services and use dynamic IPs. I wonder how large a range of the internet Brazil would be willing to block.
This link - http://exame.abril.com.br/tecn... - (In portuguese) - Has way more information about this issue. Some interesting points from it: -Suspension will occur because Facebook didn't provide messages for an investigation still underway. -The judge says that Facebook responded the request in English, not an official language in Brazil. -Important: THE REQUESTS ARE ONLY FOR FUTURE MESSAGES. (Justice seeks only to obtain copies of future messages of the investigated). -The company argues that providing the messages will make its users lose faith in the app. The Judge calls it BS: Phones are recorded all the time and people didn't lose faith / stopped using their telecom providers. -There is a fine of ~15K USD/day until the order is followed.
The devil is always in the details.
More likely the story is obfuscated by the details, like that old lawyers trick, comply with a discovery order by drowning them in paperwork.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
The telcos aren't the only suppliers of internet services. Last I checked, the local cable company, who also supplies internet, isn't a telco.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
And every time it got overruled by a higher judge a few days later. Is this still the same idiot judge as before or is it another one this time? I can't find the name of the judge that ordered the other 2 blocks.
As you know, our blockade is perfectly legal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
:-) That's almost pedantic.. They are businesses subject to any government whim. We need a way around them all to defeat the blockade.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
But somehow I enjoy the idea of Facebook being hurt.
"The office of Brazil's attorney general reiterated its position that judges who suspend WhatsApp are incorrectly interpreting a 2014 law meant to provide a legal framework for the internet.
"Still, that guidance has not stopped judges frustrated with the modern limits of wiretaps in drug-trafficking investigations from going after the service and even briefly jailing a senior Facebook executive in March."
It sounds like we have a judge who is violating the law and should be arrested herself.
It's far simpler to simply drop encrypted packets that can't be read. All the "official" channels, like banks and other businesses, have the built in back doors.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
A judge in Brazil usually are an ignorant and (very) egocentric monkey, unable to understand the logic and reason do not bend to the whims of it. They are the picture of a country still in the Middle Ages where authority think his word is divine law and can never be questioned.
Religion: The greatest weapon of mass destruction of all time
Don't laugh, I started toying with this a few weeks ago. It's not really as hard as it looks at first glance.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
If they block WhatsApp... how is my Uber driver going to tell me they're running late?
That would need the Great Wall of Amazonia, which doesn't exist You don't need a Great Wall, just a court order directed to each ISP.
From the article:
"Telefonica Brasil SA" - Land (fiber/dsl) and Mobile lines, check.
"America Movil SAB's Claro - Land (cable) and Mobile lines, check
"TIM Participacoes SA" - Land (dsl/fiber) and Mobile lines, check.
"Oi SA" - Land (dsl/fiber) and Mobile lines, check
"Nextel Participacoes SA" - mobile only
That probably covers over 95% of residential and a little less of commercial connections in Brazil.
So there is no point in trying to use 3G/4G or your land/wifi connection, you'll have close to no one to talk to.
Just in time for the Olympics. I am sure the idea of major social network block is making NBC giggle with joy. The more social media is blocked the better NBC's Olympic monopoly will become.
It is bad enough they don't cover half the events to begin with but the times they broadcast the ones they do cover is horrible. We'll get hours and hours of floor exercises and 20 minutes of judo. By the time the track and field is done we'll know about every cousin of 'John Doe' the 200 m sprinter but not have seen 5 minutes of Archery coverage. I can't believe they are having golf in the Olympics this time...
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
Having said that, you don't answer a Court Order in a country where you operate and have offices over e-mail, in a foreign language, asking for details about the ongoing investigation (in English, please)!
Quote from the e-mail, contained in the decison:
Unquote
The reason the appeal was granted is not simply because the higher court disagreed with the judge's decision. It was granted because it was done in writing, by lawyers, respectfully and in Portuguese. It is that simple!