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New York DA Wants Apple, Google To Roll Back Encryption (tomsguide.com)

An anonymous reader writes: Manhattan District Attorney Cyrus Vance Jr. called on Apple and Google to weaken their device encryption, arguing that thousands of crimes remained unsolved because no one can crack into the perpetrators' phones. Vance, speaking at the International Conference on Cyber Security here, said that law enforcement officials did not need an encryption "backdoor," sidestepping a concern of computer-security experts and device makers alike. Instead, Vance said, he only wanted the encryption standards rolled back to the point where the companies themselves can decrypt devices, but police cannot. This situation existed until September 2014, when Apple pushed out iOS 8, which Apple itself cannot decrypt. "Tim Cook was absolutely right when he told his shareholders that the iPhone changed the world," Vance said. "It's changed my world. It's letting criminals conduct their business with the knowledge we can't listen to them."

19 of 254 comments (clear)

  1. And you shouldn't be.... by Lord_Rion · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You shouldn't be able to listen to them... you shouldn't be able to listen to anyone. Try doing your job the old fashioned way... outsmart them.. stop trying to take short cuts at the expensive our our rights and liberties...

    But hey.. that's just my opinion

    --
    --Hired Net Grunt
    1. Re:And you shouldn't be.... by npslider · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The "bad guys" will still find that classic abandoned warehouse across the train tracks and plot their evil in the veil of darkness. Perhaps we should require spotlights and mandatory cameras over every square inch of the planet too?

    2. Re:And you shouldn't be.... by jellomizer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think it is more to the point. We as a culture should be brave enough to say We are willing to take these security risks in order to protect our privacy.

      The people who work in security are doing their job. And it is their responsibility to ask for things and changes that will make their job more effective, I don't blame them for the request.

      However we seem to lack the fortitude to go to these people and say, no that is asking a bit too much, I know it isn't ideal but we need to keep people's freedom as well, at the expense of ideal security.

       

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    3. Re:And you shouldn't be.... by sbrown7792 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Perhaps we should require spotlights and mandatory cameras over every square inch of the planet too?

      Please, for the love of all that is holy: stop giving them ideas!

    4. Re:And you shouldn't be.... by Hylandr · · Score: 5, Insightful

      at the expense of ideal security.

      *Having a backdoor into any encryption is not ideal security*, as that back door, or weak encryption is equally, if not more so, vulnerable to the bad guys as well.

      What makes you think only the good guys will use backdoors or exploit weaker encryption? What if it's a bad guy that gets ahold of the cops phone and looks inside? Which agency will be compromised?

      Bad guys often have better equipment than the good guys and by bad guys I am also including foreign nations, mafia, competing corporations, and Militaries of the world in addition to criminals.

      When will people get it through their heads that the same tools are used by both good and bad? Good people with guns stop bad people with guns. But bad people with guns also stop good people with guns. Good encryption can be used to protect bad people, but good encryption can also protect the good people.

      The catch here is the bad people won't care about artificial constructs such as laws. If they need a gun they will steal one or make one. If they want to cover their tracks online they will find a way to do it. The rest is just FUD and ignorance.

      --
      ~ People that think they are better than anyone else for any reason are the cause of all the strife in the world.
    5. Re:And you shouldn't be.... by wierd_w · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I realize that I phones are absurdly thin, but a typical audio bug is very tiny. If you can obtain a search warrant to search the phone, you can obtain a warrant for a ln authorised bug. Bugs take many forms, and can do many things. For instance, some can record the local EMI from a device, and then reproduce the activity of that device from that produced noise. That includes screen taps, gestures, etc.

      Put one of those in, let it record away, then arrest the perp, collect the bug, analyze its contents, then use the analysis to unlock the phone for further data retrieval.

      The real deal here is that the da does not want to have to physically bug the phones in question. He wants to arrest on weak charges, then go fishing.

    6. Re:And you shouldn't be.... by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 4, Funny

      Hillary's email was intercepted by the Russians at the request of Trump, and forwarded off to Wikileaks.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    7. Re:And you shouldn't be.... by stephanruby · · Score: 4, Interesting

      This DA seems to be implying that pre-iPhone, his predecessors closed all their cases.

      That kind of track record doesn't bode well for him. Is that really something he should be calling attention to? That his predecessors got results, but that his current office doesn't.

    8. Re:And you shouldn't be.... by npslider · · Score: 5, Funny

      I'll turn on Fox News for the fair and balanced report!

  2. How were crimes solved before cell phones? by bluelip · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Many law enforcement leaders are acting as if no crimes can be solved unless all cell phones are made more vulnerable.

    What a great idea.... weaken everyone for a few rare cases.

    --

    Yep, I never spell check.
    More incorrect spellings can be found he
    1. Re:How were crimes solved before cell phones? by Miguelito · · Score: 4, Insightful

      > What a great idea.... weaken everyone for a few rare cases.

      That's the norm in big gov't.

      Some people use guns to commit crimes? Let's ban them, or at least severely restrict them!
      Some people can't dispose of plastic bags? Ban them for everyone!
      Terrorists took over some planes? Let's enact crazy "security" that can't actually catch anything, treats everyone like a criminal, and make sure we grope kids and grandma so we don't look like we're profiling.

      --
      - My favorite error message: xscreensaver, running on an old Sparc 5 w/ 8bit color: bsod: Couldn't allocate color Blue
    2. Re:How were crimes solved before cell phones? by Zak3056 · · Score: 4, Funny

      That's how Billy the Kid got off... they tried him for shooting Sheriff William Brady, but he was acquitted because his iPhone was encrypted and they couldn't get at the data. They even tried getting Steve Jobs' great grandfather involved, but the sonofabitch insisted that he didn't even know what a cell phone was, much less how to remove the encryption from one.

      Julius Rosenberg also went free because they couldn't decrypt his thumb drive to prove he was spying for the Soviets.

      At least that's the impression I get from listening to these assholes whining that they can't spy on all of us 24/7.

      --
      What part of "shall not be infringed" is so hard to understand?
    3. Re:How were crimes solved before cell phones? by Yvan256 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Terrorists took over some planes? Let's enact crazy "security" that can't actually catch anything, treats everyone like a criminal, and make sure we grope kids and grandma so we don't look like we're profiling.

      Banning planes would have been easier.

  3. Bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    So what you can't listen to them? Have these guys never heard of police work? Here's a hint, it's not synonymous with spying. If you can't follow the money, them the crime is probably too petty to worry about.

  4. Glad to hear it. Now, can I see the police files. by gurps_npc · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Glad to hear he thinks we don't need privacy.

    Now I have a long list of police files and videos I would like to see.

    Wait, you mean you don't want us to see those? But thousands of accusations against police are going unsolved without access to them!

    --
    excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
  5. "Register your crimes! It's the law!" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    One problem time and again is that crypto only works for "the good guys" (which may or may not include LEOs, this is not automatic) if it isn't diddled, and therefore it also works for "the bad guys", whoever those might be. This is well-known in "intelligence"-land, but the concepts that are well-known and -understood there, quite certainly aren't in, oh, LEO land. Or the land of the liars, er, politicians. Or much anywhere else, really. Something that will have to change, thanks to information technology and world-wide networks.

    Another problem is that the LEOs are now the tail wagging the dog. Maybe they should re-read the Peelian principles, instead of fancying themselves the militarised "command and control" hub of society.

    1. Re:"Register your crimes! It's the law!" by dinfinity · · Score: 4, Interesting

      A security guy (admittedly someone random on the internet) mentioned the relative ease with which criminals can make their own communications and storage apps (or have them made). Apps which due to their custom nature render trying to strongarm the (now sidelined) 'big guys' into weakening their encryption completely useless.

      In fact, the possibilities for any serious criminal network to create their own secure communications channels and data storage are so mindbogglingly vast that the only criminals the current situation is 'letting [...] conduct their business' are pretty obviously small time or just stupid drug dealers. Hardly the type of criminals envisioned when urged to give up the basic human right of privacy.

  6. The police must not be able to solve every crime by gweihir · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Otherwise you have a full-blown Police State and that is far, far worse than almost any amount of unsolved crime. In a free state, the police must be severely limited in what it can do and must be kept at a level of power that allows them to reliably keep society functioning, but never above.

    --
    Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  7. imagine where it goes by supernova87a · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The DA provides the best argument for Apple to strengthen encryption, by his own existence and statement. Imagine 10,000 district attorneys across the US, each of which have varying competence / incompetence in handling investigations, requests from Apple certain encryption/decryption keys, and wildly varying levels of knowledge about how to use or judge when to ask for this capability.

    And, for that matter, wildly differing capabilities to securely handle and keep private the information they find on people's phones.

    No thank you, and Apple is right to refuse them.