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Babylon 5 Actor Jerry Doyle Dies (dailymail.co.uk)

Slashdot reader tiqui writes: Jerry Doyle, best known for playing Security Chief Michael Garibaldi on Babylon 5 has passed away in Las Vegas at only 60 years of age. His B5 character was often paired-up with G'Kar (played by Andreas Katsulas who died in 2006 at age 59) and with Jeffrey Sinclair (played by Michael O'Hare who died in 2012, also at age 60) He seems to have lead an interesting life. Cause of death not yet known.
Slashdot reader The Grim Reefer quotes the BBC: Fellow Babylon 5 actor Bruce Boxleitner tweeted that he was "so devastated at the news of the untimely death of my good friend", while astronaut Scott Kelly said the news was "very sad to hear".

156 comments

  1. Peekabo? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A sad day.

    1. Re:Peekabo? by jellomizer · · Score: 0

      It is sad. But this story is 2 days old. Good job slashdot.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    2. Re:Peekabo? by The+Grim+Reefer · · Score: 1

      It wasn't the day I originally submitted it and was declined.

    3. Re: Peekabo? by Z00L00K · · Score: 1

      You would never have guessed that.

      Now it's time for some daffy duck.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    4. Re:Peekabo? by arglebargle_xiv · · Score: 1

      Security Chief Michael Garibaldi on Babylon 5 has passed away in Las Vegas at only 60 years of age. His B5 character was often paired-up with G'Kar (played by Andreas Katsulas who died in 2006 at age 59) and with Jeffrey Sinclair (played by Michael O'Hare who died in 2012, also at age 60)

      Holy fsck, am I glad I never had a role in B5, I'd be dead by now since I'm 62.

    5. Re:Peekabo? by doccus · · Score: 2

      You know what? It kind of makes me very angry.. The joke "they'll be dead before the networks ever okay a B5 update" just doesn't seem at all funny anymore. And holy f@#$.. He was only around my age. Somehow I always thought I was younger than the cast of the show...

    6. Re:Peekabo? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are no guarantees in life. Anyone can die at any age, at any time. The most important thing is to live for now, but be responsible. Don't dwell on the past and don't stress about a future that may never be. Worrying about things that are out of your control will only cause you to waste the precious time you have alive.

    7. Re: Peekabo? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They forgot Richard Biggs who played Dr Stephen Franklin and died at the age of 44 back in 2004.

    8. Re:Peekabo? by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 2

      Security Chief Michael Garibaldi on Babylon 5 has passed away in Las Vegas at only 60 years of age. His B5 character was often paired-up with G'Kar (played by Andreas Katsulas who died in 2006 at age 59) and with Jeffrey Sinclair (played by Michael O'Hare who died in 2012, also at age 60)

      Holy fsck, am I glad I never had a role in B5, I'd be dead by now since I'm 62.

      Well, Boxleitner obviously is still alive at 66, and Mira Furlan and Peter Jurasic seem to be fine at 60 (Mira has a little over a month to break the spell). Bill Mumy is 62, and Stephen Furst 61. So not every Babylon 5 actors dies at 60 (or younger)

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
    9. Re:Peekabo? by arglebargle_xiv · · Score: 1

      Security Chief Michael Garibaldi on Babylon 5 has passed away in Las Vegas at only 60 years of age. His B5 character was often paired-up with G'Kar (played by Andreas Katsulas who died in 2006 at age 59) and with Jeffrey Sinclair (played by Michael O'Hare who died in 2012, also at age 60)

      Holy fsck, am I glad I never had a role in B5, I'd be dead by now since I'm 62.

      Well, Boxleitner obviously is still alive at 66, and Mira Furlan and Peter Jurasic seem to be fine at 60 (Mira has a little over a month to break the spell). Bill Mumy is 62, and Stephen Furst 61. So not every Babylon 5 actors dies at 60 (or younger)

      Are we sure it's really them, or just a bunch of Minbari in changeling nets?

    10. Re:Peekabo? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Stephen Furst is 61??! Yikes. NOW I feel old.. :(

  2. Don't believe it by peragrin · · Score: 1

    Garibaldi faked his own death to get to the truth about who hacked the Democrats.

    Damn B5 is one of the few series I want to see either remade, or expanded upon. Modern cgi would make those space battles even more epic.

    --
    i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    1. Re:Don't believe it by mfh · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Garibaldi was awesomely acted by Doyle and he will be missed. RIP. Too young to die at age 60.

      Time to binge B5 for my respects. I would love to see a prequel called "B4", mostly because I like puns. Any remake would be able to examine closely the tropes of POV and "anyone can die" as they reimagine the series as a space epic. Game of Thrones in space is something that could potentially get a huge audience and would definitely be welcomed by all.

      --
      The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
    2. Re:Don't believe it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I don't know... even with the flaws, Severed Dreams is still probably one of the most spectacular space battles of the small, or large screen-- not because it was massive (which it was), but because it was *personal*. The textures could be a bit more detailed, sure, and perhaps the particle effects could be amped up-- but I don't think it would change the impact the battle had on the viewer.

    3. Re:Don't believe it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I could never take those crappy CGI scenes in B5 seriously. They would have been better just using models.

    4. Re:Don't believe it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That was state of the art video-toaster stuff. If not for early CGI the rest would have never developed.

    5. Re:Don't believe it by haruchai · · Score: 1

      We know what happened (to) B4

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      --
      Pain is merely failure leaving the body
    6. Re:Don't believe it by Snotnose · · Score: 1

      Love to see B5 done as a prequel, before humans came on the scene. The whole backstory was epic. Be nice to see a SF series with no humans in it.

      Except that chick that played the telepath. She wasn't that hot, but damn she was sexy. Patricia something if memory serves. Too lazy to google.

    7. Re:Don't believe it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      BS. I had video games at the time with FMV that looked as good or better.

      And it still looked far worse than TNG's models.

    8. Re:Don't believe it by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      The difference vs TNG was that they didn't keep repeating the same CGI over and over every single damned episode. So how many epic space battles did TNG have with more than 2 ships? We are talking about dozens of ships here.

    9. Re:Don't believe it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      TNG wasn't about the pew pew. It was about working through problems.

      I take it you haven't seen DS9 either. The battles in that were far larger in scale than anything in B5 and they were done with practical effects.

    10. Re: Don't believe it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And the difference in budgets where what?

    11. Re:Don't believe it by FlyHelicopters · · Score: 1

      B5 didn't have the budget for models, ST TNG spent millions on the models and filming them, B5 could never have done that.

    12. Re:Don't believe it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      DS9 used CGI

    13. Re:Don't believe it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No it didn't.

    14. Re:Don't believe it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The largest battle in TNG was at Wolf 359 involving 40 ships and was entirely 2D. I dont mean the models or the effects I mean the battle itself was just a thin wall of ships. Compare that to B5 with battles involving thousands of ships flying in all directions. Space is 3D and any commander with a brain would make use of that.

      The battles in DS9 (which came after B5's big conflicts) were much better. Many more ships actually moving in 3 dimensions.

    15. Re: Don't believe it by Z00L00K · · Score: 1

      By the standards of today it's clunky, but for the time it was good. And it was used in a good way too where it didn't become intrusive to the story.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    16. Re: Don't believe it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, it was horrible even at the time. My friends and I all mocked the CGI segments.

      Every time it switched from the live action parts to the CGI stuff was jarring because it looked so unrealistic and out of place. The end result is I would get immersed in the story and then one of the space scenes would pop up and ruin the illusion.

    17. Re:Don't believe it by dunkelfalke · · Score: 1

      Actually they did. If you binge B5, you'll see it. Small CGIs like a guy in a space suit or some repair bot, you see these basically every other episode. Nothing major, though.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    18. Re: Don't believe it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure, there were some problems with the use of CGI both at the time and in retrospect. Most mainly to do with a modest budget and a massive need for effects. Both interior and exteriors demanded effects and there was little compromise in terms of meeting the demand. No surprise therefore that there was a variability in quality. One area that particularly impressed me was when they did work that would have been so much more difficult with model effects. The Vorlon vessels had organic qualities that would have been incredibly demanding on model effects to the extent that they probably would not have been possible, Similarly, the Shadow vessels would move wonderfully between normal space and hyperspace in a truely frightening way. In these respects B5 had no equals at the time and in many ways since. A TOS recreated effects could be amazing but what was done at the time was staggering.

    19. Re: Don't believe it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seems like you and your friends lack all imagination, sucks to be you.

    20. Re: Don't believe it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      About the same difference as the aforementioned video game FMVs that look just as good or better than B5.

    21. Re:Don't believe it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Funny, because every single Human, Centauri, Narn, Vorlon, White Star, etc. ship looks identical to each other. Almost as if they just did a copy and paste job...

    22. Re: Don't believe it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Imagination for audio-visual media...LOL!

      You seem to be missing the point of it.

    23. Re:Don't believe it by Immerman · · Score: 1

      Actually, according to Jinxy we know what happened to all the previous stations *except* B4 - all destroyed almost immediately. B4 though, we only know the very beginning of its story, and a few scraps of thousand year old legend. Could actually make for a wonderful prequel setting - almost no details and all that continuity demands is successful near-defeat of the Shadows.

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      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    24. Re:Don't believe it by Immerman · · Score: 1

      Or had discovered the production boosting benefits of factories...

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      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    25. Re:Don't believe it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      TNG was about working through political correctness. TOS was about working through problems, occasionally with messy endings. Dr. Who is about working through problems.

    26. Re:Don't believe it by Dogtanian · · Score: 1

      I could never take those crappy CGI scenes in B5 seriously. They would have been better just using models.

      On B5's budget? Not a chance in hell.

      The only reason it was possible to do space scenes that were *far* more extensive and three-dimensional than those of the Star Trek series despite having a smaller budget was because they used the new, cheaper CGI that came along in the early 90s.

      I'm guessing that to do the equivalent scenes using traditional models would have pushed the cost into Hollywood movie territory. That obviously wasn't going to happen, not even on Star Trek's budget.

      I appreciate that it's probably dated by modern standards and might not always have compared favourably at the time, but the flipside is that CGI made it possible *at all* for a series set in space to actually have a significant amount of footage showing events taking place there, as opposed to the limited number of static shots and viewscreen images that Star Trek had at the time.

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    27. Re:Don't believe it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dr. Who is about working through problems.

      And running. Don't forget running.

    28. Re: Don't believe it by RabidReindeer · · Score: 1

      No, it was horrible even at the time. My friends and I all mocked the CGI segments.

      Every time it switched from the live action parts to the CGI stuff was jarring because it looked so unrealistic and out of place. The end result is I would get immersed in the story and then one of the space scenes would pop up and ruin the illusion.

      On original (NTSC) or on DVD (digital)? The Video Toaster systems were advanced for the day, but they output broadcast-quality video. When the DVDs were mastered, I believe that the original data was lost and it wasn't possible to re-generate the CGI to the higher video quality that DVDs offer.

    29. Re:Don't believe it by RabidReindeer · · Score: 1

      Game of Thrones in space is something that could potentially get a huge audience and would definitely be welcomed by all.

      God no. Bad enough with JRRM chronicling the lives of everyone on one planet, let alone a galaxy full of them!

    30. Re: Don't believe it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not sure about DS9, but Voyager was about 1.2m per episode vs. 800k for B5.

    31. Re: Don't believe it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And Voyager looked about a hundred times better than B5.

    32. Re: Don't believe it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can tell you didn't grow up on Dr Who. The effects in the Tom Baker days were laughable but I still loved it. Us old farts learned to use our imagination.

    33. Re:Don't believe it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then the same could be said for Star Trek. You can't gripe about reuse in Star Trek when B5 was even more shameless about it. At least with Star Trek they actually built real-life physical models, sets and shot scenes on location as oppose to just editing some files for a crappy render.

    34. Re: Don't believe it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The things that made the DVDs worse was the pixelation and cropping but the low detail and poor animation in the CGI in both the original broadcasts and DVDs looked really bad. It was about on par with the quality of Insektors, ReBoot or Battletech, but made worse because it was interspersed between or integrated into live action scenes. And again, there were video games at the time that had better looking prerendered sequences.

    35. Re:Don't believe it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Star Trek's budget really wasn't that much higher, but the space scenes, ships and effects looked far more realistic than anything in B5. Freaking the first four or five series of *Red Dwarf* had more realistic looking ship shots than B5 and those had a much lower budget. Video game FMV looked better and we know those certainly had a much lower budget back then.

    36. Re:Don't believe it by doccus · · Score: 1

      Garibaldi was awesomely acted by Doyle and he will be missed. RIP. Too young to die at age 60.

      Time to binge B5 for my respects. I would love to see a prequel called "B4", mostly because I like puns. Any remake would be able to examine closely the tropes of POV and "anyone can die" as they reimagine the series as a space epic. Game of Thrones in space is something that could potentially get a huge audience and would definitely be welcomed by all.

      The prequel would likelly disappear before it got finished....

    37. Re: Don't believe it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Voyager was done by the same company that did the CG for B5. :P

    38. Re: Don't believe it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If the limited effects ruined it for you, then that is a failing on your part.

      Aside from the odd episode, I didn't watch it at the time. However, I watched it all for the first time about 6 years ago, and despite being used to much better effects, I didn't find the CGI in it off putting at all. Maybe because I didn't look at it as a magic trick that was supposed to fool me, but just as a story being told.

    39. Re: Don't believe it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Only some of the shots from halfway through season 3 to 7 were done by Foundation Imaging AND Digital Muse, and not on Amigas. The award winning introduction sequence for Voyager (the best CGI in the entire show) was done by Amblin Imaging. Many of the ship and shuttle shots were models throughout the entire run. There are just some things CGI cannot believably pull off that models can.

    40. Re: Don't believe it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I never said I didn't like B5. In fact it's one of my favourite shows, but that doesn't mean I'm blind to its faults.

      And yes, Dr. Who was from before my time since I was born in the 70s. I generally watched things like Stingray, Captain Scarlet, Terrahawks, Duke of Hazzard, Knight Rider, A-Team, Airwolf, Max Headroom and various cartoons like Captain Future, Captain Harlock, Voltron, Macross, etc. None of those had super realistic effects, but they worked because the entire shows were the same without jarring transitions from one format to another.

    41. Re: Don't believe it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It was poor judgement on the part of the creators of B5. I'd love to see the show get an HD re-release with the CGI parts redone with modern visuals and/or models.

    42. Re:Don't believe it by Immerman · · Score: 1

      I think it wasn't the ships they were objecting to, but to the similarity in scenes.

      Of course, considering how much more expensive CGI was at the time, it's hardly surprising. I mean we had a full Moore's Law cycle just between the ending of ST:TNG and the beginning of B5.

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    43. Re:Don't believe it by zwede · · Score: 1

      Star Trek's budget really wasn't that much higher

      B5 had a budget of $800K per episode. Star Trek TNG had $2M.

    44. Re:Don't believe it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, TNG had a budget of approximately $1.3 million per episode.

    45. Re:Don't believe it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      B5 didn't have the budget for models, ST TNG spent millions on the models and filming them, B5 could never have done that.

      It was more complicated than that. They actually found CGI to be more expensive and time-sensitive than the models, as well as having difficulty fitting the look right.

      Of course, now we have CGI in the TOS for the remastered versions. It's occasionally good.

    46. Re: Don't believe it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, no. DS9 was the first Star Trek series to use CG, and it profited greatly from B5's pioneering effort. The Defiant was CG from season 4's "Starship Down".

    47. Re:Don't believe it by Dogtanian · · Score: 1

      Star Trek's budget really wasn't that much higher, but the space scenes, ships and effects looked far more realistic than anything in B5.

      Whether Star Trek's budget was 2.5 times higher ($2 M) or only 1.6 times ($1.3 M), the fact remains that it had far fewer (and generally much less complex) space scenes than B5.

      As I said, you couldn't do scenes of B5-level complexity using models on a Star Trek TV budget, let alone a B5 one.

      And you keep going on about video game FMV being supposedly better than B5; I saw the pre-rendered intro sequence for (the CD versions of) the infamous Rise of the Robots on YouTube a couple of months back (see here) and noting that while it was probably impressive at the time, it looked a bit synthetic now. It certainly isn't any better than B5.

      (#) FWIW, I understand that DS9 latterly used CGI to augment the model shots; that doesn't count as we were discussing whether B5 would have been better off using models.

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    48. Re: Don't believe it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wrong. DS9 continued to use models throughout its entire run. Only specific shots were CGI.

    49. Re:Don't believe it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And it all looked like low resolution, poorly animated early FMV video game shit.

      B5 had nothing approaching the complexity of the battles seen in DS9.

    50. Re:Don't believe it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      that's your way of saying "it was a year and a half later"?

    51. Re:Don't believe it by Immerman · · Score: 1

      Except that time is far less relevant than the fact that we had more than a doubling of available rendering performance just between the lingering tail end of one show and the beginning of the next.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    52. Re:Don't believe it by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      No it didn't.

      Yes it did. The Bajoran lightship was the first major use of CGI in s Star Trek series.

      However, the battles in The Way of the Warrior weren't.

      Do tell me how shit that looks compared to the battles in Babylon 5. Or how there are too few ships in one shot.

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    53. Re:Don't believe it by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      I think it wasn't the ships they were objecting to, but to the similarity in scenes.

      Well, having two dozen ships of all races all going in the same direction with all guns blazing doesn't look too different from the same ships shuffled around all going in the same direction with all guns blazing. Not after the tenth such shot.

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    54. Re: Don't believe it by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      Seems like you and your friends lack all imagination, sucks to be you.

      Wait, what? You needed "imagination" to make the B5 visual effects look good to yourself? Could one have used Dope or LSD instead?

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
    55. Re:Don't believe it by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      Star Trek's budget really wasn't that much higher

      B5 had a budget of $800K per episode. Star Trek TNG had $2M.

      Nope, as the AC said. You probably are confusing that with "Space: Above and Beyond" from the same time. And we all remember how great that looked. No, wait, nobody remembers, and we certainly don't see many reruns because that show flopped.

      --
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    56. Re:Don't believe it by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      Star Trek's budget really wasn't that much higher, but the space scenes, ships and effects looked far more realistic than anything in B5.

      OTOH, I don't think Babylon 5 had a single shot done outside a sound stage. Lot's of exterior shots on all Star Trek shows.

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
    57. Re:Don't believe it by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      As I said, you couldn't do scenes of B5-level complexity using models on a Star Trek TV budget, let alone a B5 one.

      Ahh, but are those complex scenes of many big ships in one shot actually realistic for a space battle? At least as screen filling as they are in B5 as opposed to tiny looking things shooting even tinier things at each other?

      --
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    58. Re:Don't believe it by Agripa · · Score: 1

      [quote]I would love to see a prequel called "B4", mostly because I like puns.[/quote]

      That is going to be a pretty boring prequel. Maybe the History Channel would show it as a Modern Marvels special.

  3. Statistical anomalies... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Katsulas, Biggs, Doyle, Conaway, O'Hare.... Good grief, there aren't that many Star Trek TOS cast members who have since died, and that was 25 years prior to B5!

    1. Re:Statistical anomalies... by The+Grim+Reefer · · Score: 1

      Biggs was only 44 when he died of an aortic dissection. The others all died at only 59 to 60 years old. Far too young, from cancer, heart disease, and a drug overdose.

      I read JMS still holds the rights to any B5 movies. He stated he was hoping to make one that included some of the original cast. But at this rate it won't be possible for much longer. Very sad.

    2. Re:Statistical anomalies... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And Tim Choate (Zathras)

    3. Re:Statistical anomalies... by myowntrueself · · Score: 1

      And Tim Choate (Zathras)

      Wait, which Zathras was that? Was that Zathras or his brother Zathras?

      --
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    4. Re:Statistical anomalies... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It was his cousin you dope!

    5. Re:Statistical anomalies... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Man, I hadn't even heard about Choate. Sucks.

    6. Re: Statistical anomalies... by Z00L00K · · Score: 1

      Star Trek had a smaller cast, and we don't know how many extras that have passed away.

      Katsulas did some Star Trek too b.t.w.

      What was great with B5 was how the characters developed, they weren't static.

      If doing new stuff in the B5 universe then it's better to have the original remaining cast just doing guest appearences. But some in the original that were junior can have risen to new positions. Doing a remake is not going to be good. Better to catch up on threads found in the original.

      Some more about the origins of technomages, the years following the drakh plauge - and did someone finally take care of the drakh considering that Vir didn't seem to be burdened by them?

      I'm a bit surprised that there are so little fan movies on B5 made too.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    7. Re: Statistical anomalies... by Big+Hairy+Ian · · Score: 1

      Katsulas did some Star Trek too b.t.w.

      As did Patricia Tallman and both Na'toths were in DS9 too

      --

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    8. Re: Statistical anomalies... by Dragonslicer · · Score: 1

      Some more about the origins of technomages, the years following the drakh plauge - and did someone finally take care of the drakh considering that Vir didn't seem to be burdened by them?

      A lot of that is covered in The Passing of the Technomages trilogy of books, which are really good. The other two trilogies, one about Centauri Prime and the other about the Psi Corps, are also really good.

    9. Re:Statistical anomalies... by neilo_1701D · · Score: 1

      And Tim Choate (Zathras)

      Wait, which Zathras was that? Was that Zathras or his brother Zathras?

      It was the quiet one of the family, Zathras.

    10. Re: Statistical anomalies... by neilo_1701D · · Score: 1

      Katsulas did some Star Trek too b.t.w.

      As did Patricia Tallman and both Na'toths were in DS9 too

      As was Majel Barrett.

    11. Re:Statistical anomalies... by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      It was the quiet one of the family, Zathras.

      He lived a sad life and died a sad death. He was pleased with the symmetry.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    12. Re: Statistical anomalies... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I bet JMS regrets that casting.

    13. Re: Statistical anomalies... by Z00L00K · · Score: 1

      Londo Mollari did.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
  4. Re: FBI spin story pops here IMMEDIATELY by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 1

    Paranoid much?

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  5. G'Kar Said It Best... by ytene · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "Welcome home, Mr Garibaldi!!!" The thing that made Babylon 5 stand out - especially given the vast amount of money being thrown at other contemporary sci-fi shows of the era, like Star TreK: Next Generation - was the passion that cast and crew had for the show and the respect they had for each other. Over the course of five seasons, 110 episodes and a small collection of spin-off TV-Movies, we were all incredibly privileged to watch a collection of strangers come together, get to know each other, become friends, then absolutely fall in love with the show that they were making. Babylon 5 might have lacked for a lot of things, but never for the passion of what they were doing. You don't have to be a sci-fi fan to see that. And if, as we'd hope, Andreas and Richard and Michael and Jeff are all there waiting for him, I rather hope that Jerry's response, on hearing G'Kar's welcome, would respond in kind: "Even for a Narn - he's nuts!" We will remember your name - and cherish all that you left us. Rest in peace, Jerry.

    1. Re:G'Kar Said It Best... by Kjella · · Score: 1

      "Welcome home, Mr Garibaldi!!!" The thing that made Babylon 5 stand out - especially given the vast amount of money being thrown at other contemporary sci-fi shows of the era, like Star TreK: Next Generation - was the passion that cast and crew had for the show and the respect they had for each other.

      I think it's the story wide arch and that most of the episodes helped form the characters, explaining why they did the things they do later. If you watch TNG and miss five episodes you've barely missed a thing, it's the same crew on the bridge and their characters barely change at all. Sure it's a new situation every time but you can pretty much drop the crew from the first episode into the last episode and it'd all play out the same.

      That said, I missed the beginning of the show and never got into it at first because they totally lacked a "previously on Babylon 5" to give you some essential plot pointers. I didn't get into it until season 3 when the Vorlon/Shadows were threatening to destroy everyone, then went back and saw it from the beginning. The Crusade spin-off wasn't the same, it was more of the episodic format that made it just another TV show and the movies didn't last long enough to build up any arch like what carried the show.

      Today I think the CGI budget would have killed it. We're getting used to more and more "alien" aliens not all humanoids - though B5 had a neat explanation for that too which tied into the plot - but today we can do so much more though at a very high cost. In animation you can do a more cartoon-like style but having aliens that look like they really belong next to an actor is still freakishly expensive.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    2. Re:G'Kar Said It Best... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Today I think the CGI budget would have killed it. We're getting used to more and more "alien" aliens not all humanoids - though B5 had a neat explanation for that too which tied into the plot - but today we can do so much more though at a very high cost. In animation you can do a more cartoon-like style but having aliens that look like they really belong next to an actor is still freakishly expensive.

      In one of the DVD commentaries JMS says that in the beginning they swore to themselves that they were going to have alien aliens, and not just aliens that were humans "with funny foreheads". But then the shear complexity of such costumes and the pressure of producing an episode every weak got to them and the ended up doing aliens with funny foreheads.

    3. Re:G'Kar Said It Best... by ytene · · Score: 1

      Yes, I recall that comment from JMS. In Season 1 they had that black-market dealer that operated in the non-oxygen wing, the creature that looked a bit like a man-sized preying mantis. IIRC it looked to be based on anamatronics of some kind [as opposed to being a man in a suit] and although it did come across a bit clunky, I remember thinking that it was nice to see the show at least make the effort.

      And if you think about the time this show was being recorded, the cost of computer time to render all that CGI would have been scary expensive. I'm not sure if it was true, but I read on a fan site that the early shows used a modified Cray Y-MP8 system, but that later seasons replaced that with a render farm built up of lots of individual systems taking the SETI@home approach and out-sourcing work frame-by-frame.

    4. Re:G'Kar Said It Best... by Shinobi · · Score: 1

      In the beginning, they rendered on the same Amiga 4k's with accelerator boards they modeled on, but later they rendered on a network of Raptor machines(Alphas running Windows NT)

  6. Sinclair said it: by Hartree · · Score: 1

    Michael O'Hare is saying:

    "Hello, old friend."

    1. Re:Sinclair said it: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except Jerry Doyle hated Michael O'Hare. Also, they are both dead and therefore incapable of saying anything.

    2. Re: Sinclair said it: by Z00L00K · · Score: 1

      Well, at least they didn't let it go out over the show. And O'Hare had some paranoid problems so I can imagine that he might have been a bit of a problem off the set. That's why Boxleitner came in, to allow O'Hare to get treatment. Unfortunately it wasn't entirely successful. And for those that haven't experienced the dark side it's hard to understand.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    3. Re: Sinclair said it: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      O'Hare had mental issues and it seemed very tactless of Doyle to publicly make fun of him like he did.

      Boxleitner was much more understanding and always spoke well of O'Hare, as did the rest of the cast.

    4. Re: Sinclair said it: by Big+Hairy+Ian · · Score: 1

      Given how much of season one was devoted to playing up how the Mimbari had screwed with Sinclair's mind it's easy to understand why he couldn't continue in the role when in real life he was paranoid & delusional.

      --

      Build a Man a Fire, and He'll Be Warm for a Day. Set a Man on Fire, and He'll Be Warm for the Rest of His Life.

    5. Re: Sinclair said it: by Dragonslicer · · Score: 1

      O'Hare had mental issues and it seemed very tactless of Doyle to publicly make fun of him like he did.

      I don't know how much the rest of the cast knew about O'Hare's psychological diseases. JMS had promised O'Hare to not say anything about it until after O'Hare had passed. Doyle may have said things without knowing how serious O'Hare's problems were.

    6. Re: Sinclair said it: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is irrelevant. None of the others talked crap about O'Hare, because they obviously suspected something was up. Doyle went on his radio programme and flung around childish insults and then after O'Hare died and JMS revealed the true reason he left the show (a very altruistic reason), Doyle didn't even apologise or show an inkling of remorse for his previous actions.

  7. Babylon 5 was the best by spoot · · Score: 5, Interesting

    In honor of Doyle, think I might fire up the series on my Plex server. Saw this news the other day, as it came across the radio business pipeline (he was a somewhat conservative talk show host with a daily show). As a side story, when Doyle was first starting his radio show into syndication, he was making the rounds at the radio biz conventions. I got to sit and talk with Doyle for about an hour at the radio and records talk convention in NY that year. He was trying to pitch his show to all the program directors and network big-wigs (I was then working for a talk talent consulting firm). Of course, all I wanted to talk to Doyle about was Babylon 5. You know what, he indulged me for an hour.. and let me be a fan. He seemed actually excited to talk about Babylon 5 with a guy who was a fan of the show. He was a real gent and very regular guy. Hopefully he's riding a Kawasaki Ninja with Lennier out on the rim of the broken wheel.

    1. Re:Babylon 5 was the best by Lieutenant_Dan · · Score: 1

      Sounds like an awesome guy; lucky you and perfect B5 reference.

      --
      Wearing pants should always be optional.
  8. Who? by fustakrakich · · Score: 0

    Sorry, I never even saw Babylon 1. I mean I think there was something in the bible, but man, it's been a while.

    --
    “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
  9. Babylon 5: Final Farewell by shawnhcorey · · Score: 5, Interesting

    From the stars we came,
    to the stars we return,
    from now until the end of time,
    we therefore commit this body to the deep.

    --
    Don't stop where the ink does.
  10. The Curse of Babylon 5 by Dynamoo · · Score: 5

    Jerry Doyle - Died 2016, aged 60
    Michael O'Hare - Died 2012, aged 60
    Jeff Conaway - Died 2011, aged 60
    Andreas Katsulas - Died 2006, aged 59
    Richard Biggs - Died 2004, aged 44
    Tim Choate - Died 2004, aged 49
    ..thank you all, wherever you are.

    --
    Never email donotemail@WeAreSpammers.com
    1. Re:The Curse of Babylon 5 by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 1

      Jerry Doyle - Died 2016, aged 60
      Michael O'Hare - Died 2012, aged 60
      Jeff Conaway - Died 2011, aged 60
      Andreas Katsulas - Died 2006, aged 59
      Richard Biggs - Died 2004, aged 44
      Tim Choate - Died 2004, aged 49

      *

      Didn't we learn the other day, that deep spacemen die early from heart disease . . . ?

      I guess that it now applies to actors, who play roles as deep space astronauts.

      --
      Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    2. Re:The Curse of Babylon 5 by wisnoskij · · Score: 0

      They must not of paid them very much, rich people are supposed to live longer than this.

      --
      Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
    3. Re:The Curse of Babylon 5 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      With a culture that mocks a healthy lifestyle and healthy food if it isn't part of a fad, not even science fiction level health care will give you a long life span.

    4. Re:The Curse of Babylon 5 by Big+Hairy+Ian · · Score: 1

      One wonders if the surviving cast members have difficulty getting life insurance?

      --

      Build a Man a Fire, and He'll Be Warm for a Day. Set a Man on Fire, and He'll Be Warm for the Rest of His Life.

    5. Re:The Curse of Babylon 5 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, we learned that their cause of death is more likely to be heart disease than the general population. But they also are dying older than the general population, so if anything, it's actually reducing the chance of all the other causes of death.

  11. BLAH! by l0n3s0m3phr34k · · Score: 3

    We've been binging B5 right now...on Season 5, episode 11. B5 is one of the best scifi shows ever. It was never afraid to show war, death, pain...and yet had many themes of hope and good triumphing over evil. It made a stark contrast between spirituality vs religions, and showed that nothing is pure good or evil.

    "Survive, and maybe one day, forget how much it can hurt to be human. " - Michael Garibaldi

    1. Re:BLAH! by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      The first or second regular-season episode (i.e., not the pilot) had the Soul Hunters. The Soul Hunters thought they were preserving the soul, which would otherwise be destroyed, while many others thought they imprisoned the soul (which happened in the case of one planet, as shown in one of the movies). This is never clarified in general. Therefore, at the end of the episode, Delenn was either freeing or destroying souls, we don't actually know which.

      At that time, I wasn't used to that kind of moral ambiguity in television. I was impressed.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  12. Like something out of a bad film by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Did they keep a cursed mummy or radioactive waste on the set or something? I've never heard of so many actors dropping dead after working on one set. And compared to the 5 year olds playing with crayons that make up most of the acting community these days most of them were Picassos.

    1. Re:Like something out of a bad film by NormAtHome · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I've often wondered that myself, the only other instance I can remember of something like this is the cast of the John Wayne movie The Conqueror. The movie was filmed in the desert where atomic testing was done and many of the cast including John Wayne fought and ultimately died of cancer. So many of the stars of B5 have died it's like the show was cursed or something, it's pretty terrible.

    2. Re:Like something out of a bad film by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      The movie was filmed in the desert where atomic testing was done and many of the cast including John Wayne fought and ultimately died of cancer.

      The Utah desert where the move got filmed was downwind from the Nevada test site.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downwinders#Health_effects_of_nuclear_testing

    3. Re:Like something out of a bad film by NormAtHome · · Score: 0

      Close enough to effect a large number of the cast and crew.

    4. Re:Like something out of a bad film by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've often wondered that myself, the only other instance I can remember of something like this is the cast of the John Wayne movie The Conqueror. The movie was filmed in the desert where atomic testing was done and many of the cast including John Wayne fought and ultimately died of cancer. So many of the stars of B5 have died it's like the show was cursed or something, it's pretty terrible.

      Well, unlike the incidence of cancer, the B5 deaths are unrelated.

      Biggs, aorta went splot on him.
      Katsulas, cancer, but then he was a smoker.
      Conaway, pneumonia, drug abuse.
      O'Hare, heart attack, possibly related to his mental illness or the medication for it, rather.
      Choat, motorcycle accident.

      So yeah, you'd have to attribute it to a curse.

      Or more likely, Bill Clinton had them murdered as part of a massive cover-up.

    5. Re: Like something out of a bad film by Z00L00K · · Score: 1

      John Wayne did smoke quite a lot too, so did a lot of people at the time so cancer isn't a surprise.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    6. Re:Like something out of a bad film by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      Close enough to effect a large number of the cast and crew.

      Yeah, the fact that Wayne and probably most of the crew where also heavy smokers had nothing to do with it. This massage brought to you by the American Tobacco Institute.

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
    7. Re:Like something out of a bad film by NormAtHome · · Score: 1

      Yes, most of the crew including Wayne were smokers but would it have been as bad without the radiation exposure? Also I read a article a number of years ago (I can't find it right now otherwise I'd post a link) that at least three members of the crew died of cancers not usually associated with smoking such as leukemia and Agnes Moorehead (mostly know as Samantha's mother from Bewitched) died of uterine cancer, again not a type of cancer usually associated with smoking. Susan Hayward (the leading lady) died of brain cancer, Pedro Armendáriz killed himself due to the pain of bone cancer, Wikipedia states that 91 out of a total of 220 people of he cast and crew has had or battled of some form of cancer while 46 have died as a result of it. That's a pretty high percentage.

  13. Sad news by Lieutenant_Dan · · Score: 2

    My favourite show of all time. He was perfect for the role and he played it well. Similar to JMS, can't speak much for his political leanings, but he was a genuine and authentic person from any interviews I've seen of him and snippets of his show.

    --
    Wearing pants should always be optional.
    1. Re:Sad news by Zarjazz · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yeah, JMS mentions his politics here in a good obituary - http://www.epictimes.com/07/28...

    2. Re:Sad news by vux984 · · Score: 1

      He was perfect for the role and he played it well.

      Agreed. He and Peter Jurasik were particularly brilliant in their roles.

      Although I've heard his marriage with Andrea Thompson (Talia Winters) ending and the circumstances around it may have led to some of the some of the cast and plot issues issues with her sudden departure. Not suggesting Doyle was even at fault there... just an interesting behind the scenes footnote that reverberated through the show.

      can't speak much for his political leanings

      Yeah, he was practically channeling Rush Limbaugh on his show at times. And that I will fully put at Doyle's feet. I would probably despise the guy, but for his portrayal of Garibaldi.

      As a human being, I agree, that he seemed to be a genuine and authentic person. RIP Jerry Doyle.

    3. Re:Sad news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is the stupidest thing I've read today (JMS: but it's not FAAAAIR!) and Jerry Doyle sounds like he was a real dick wishing death on everyone and bullying guest stars.

    4. Re: Sad news by Z00L00K · · Score: 1

      The love/hate relation of G'Kar/Garibaldi/Mollari with all the conspiracies and occasional seasoning with Bester is part of what made the show interesting. But even other characters were important even if they actually were more replaceable.

      Sometimes an actor is just right for the role, so to the degree that the role is tuned to the actor.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    5. Re:Sad news by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      As a true nerd, I watched all the episodes on the DVDs that had commentary twice, once with and once without. Everyone else always seemed to not actually be their characters in the commentary. Doyle, on the other hand, just projected Garibaldi, and I couldn't pick out two distinct personalities.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  14. Re:I liked his animated show better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wow, I remember watching that on TV!

  15. Trump on B5 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If Donald Trump was on Babylon 5, he would have negotiated a much better deal for the Earth. It would have been yuge!

    1. Re: Trump on B5 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And the Narns would've paid for it!

  16. Hopefuly he didn't succumb to Garibaldi's issues by Khyber · · Score: 1

    Although I do suspect heavily that Doyle had alcohol-related problems much like his character. Sad.

    --
    Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
  17. New conspiracy theory guys... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Somebody is going about and assassinating Babylon 5 actors.

  18. Re:Hopefuly he didn't succumb to Garibaldi's issue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He was an alcoholic, he's even admitted it. Jeff Conaway was a big time crackhead and Andreas Katsulas smoked like a chimney.

    I do feel bad about Richard Biggs and Michael O'Hare. They seemed like genuinely good guys who were afflicted by things completely out of their control.

  19. Re:Hopefuly he didn't succumb to Garibaldi's issue by NormAtHome · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'm not sure it's widely known, but several years ago while he was visiting Germany for a convention he was mugged and badly beaten to the point where he had to have a metal plate in his skull. Bill Mumy mentioned that on Facebook in his memorium. Until the autopsy results are released it's impossible to know but to have a steel plate attached to your skull he suffered significant head trauma, it may be related to that but I'm sure we'll find out.

  20. Re:Hopefuly he didn't succumb to Garibaldi's issue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Addiction is seldom in control of the addicted.

  21. Bester did it by rossdee · · Score: 1

    Where was Wlter Koenig at the time?

    I know it would be impossible to prove a telepath committed murder

    1. Re: Bester did it by Z00L00K · · Score: 1

      A telepath can't cure an addiction.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    2. Re: Bester did it by Sloppy · · Score: 1

      I don't buy it. (Semi-spoilers) Considering what Bester was able to do to Garibaldi in season 4, I think telepaths do have the means.

      --
      As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
  22. Re:Hopefuly he didn't succumb to Garibaldi's issue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's always in their control, but most addicts can't be bothered to take any action to fix things.

    I was a smoker for over 20 years and I managed to quit cold turkey out of sheer determination. If I can give up the most insidious and addicting substance in the world, then everyone else has it easy.

  23. Not many of the cast left by Revek · · Score: 1

    I wonder how Claudia Christian is doing?

    The curse strikes again!
    http://www.imdb.com/list/ls056207990/

    1. Re:Not many of the cast left by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seemed she struggled with alcoholism for quite a while. I know this from an interview she did on Jerrys radio show.

    2. Re:Not many of the cast left by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      She seems to have recovered from the alcoholism. I can't say the same for her career, however. The last thing I saw her in was the short lived Starhyke.

      I think she's authoring books now, so that's something.

    3. Re:Not many of the cast left by Big+Hairy+Ian · · Score: 2

      She's still working https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      --

      Build a Man a Fire, and He'll Be Warm for a Day. Set a Man on Fire, and He'll Be Warm for the Rest of His Life.

  24. Re: Hopefuly he didn't succumb to Garibaldi's issu by Z00L00K · · Score: 1

    Having problems with alcohol is probably why he also did the Garibaldi role so good.

    As for Conaway he had severe back pains forcing him on drugs, which plauged him.

    --
    If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
  25. A curse??? by krtek · · Score: 1

    Dude, they have been extremely lucky to be in such a great show!

  26. Get the lead out by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "He seems to have lead an interesting life."

    I think the word the author is thinking of and should have written in that sentence is "led", the past tense of "to lead".

    In his mind he's hearing "led", but he wrote the word for a metal which is often used to manufacture bullets.

    I often see this ignorant use of the word "lead", but there is no hope of never seeing it again.

    "To be conscious that you are ignorant is a great step to knowledge." -- Benjamin Disraeli (1804 - 1881)

  27. RIP Jerry Doyle by sunami88 · · Score: 2

    He's with Dodger now

    --
    Sex. Drugs, and Unix.
  28. Bull by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Name those games that gad better graphics than B5. The whole point of the offline rendering of the B5 graphics on Commondore Amigas with Video Toasters was that NOBODY was able to do that in real-time back then.

    There are two more points to make:

    B5 used CG to do things they never could have afforded to do with models, and the CG was the best on TV at the time. B5 was the pioneer for this and proved it could work. This paved the way for Star Trek to shift to CG.

    B5 holds up as well as it does even with its very early CG effects precisely because it was not a show about lasers and 'splosions padded with lots of technobabble. B5 was always about the combination of an over-arching story, sub-stories, and the characters. The show would have worked with black-and-white hand-drawn story boards inserted in place of the CG. The big story line suffered a bit in the last 2 seasons because there were serious doubts about renewals and JMS was dedicated to making sure he could complete the tale for the fans one way of the other, so events got compressed in the next-to-last season, and then the last season got sort of fluffed-up with stuff that probably would have been in a follow-on series.

  29. Re: FBI spin story pops here IMMEDIATELY by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Never. Just attention to detail.

  30. yup, you're right by tiqui · · Score: 1

    I was in a hurry and missed it.

    I know the difference but was not even thinking of "lead", the material. I was distracted while typing the brief post which when I typed it was timely and, I thought, of interest to the Slashdot community. I was thinking of "lead" (pronounced "leed") as in "to lead" while reading the original article in one window and composing my post in another and keeping an eye on the clock with little time before I needed to tend to something. I'm not a grammar NAZI, but this sort of error usually sticks out at me when I read it, and I would have caught it had I spent an extra moment on it. The error was one of attention rather than ignorance.

    I am not offended that you flagged it. We would all benefit from being a little more careful in what we post both on matters of content and style. It was however a minor error on your part to presume ignorance when simple carelessness was a sufficient explaination. Another thing we would all benefit from is not presuming each other to be either ignorant or persons of ill will. Sometime people of goodwill simply disagree, and sometimes people of goodwill simply make a typical human error.

  31. Neither... by PortHaven · · Score: 1

    It was Zathras

  32. People claim... by PortHaven · · Score: 3, Funny

    That George R. R. Martin is the most frightful writer because all of his characters are killed off. But J. Michael Straczynski is far far more terrifying because his writing kills off the actors. :'-(

  33. Re:Hopefuly he didn't succumb to Garibaldi's issue by david_thornley · · Score: 1

    I read or heard somewhere that Doyle insisted that, if Garibaldi was going to have alcohol problems in the final season, it be shown realistically in all its ugliness.

    --
    "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  34. Here are the 2 promo clips he did last year by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

    for the run of Babylon 5 on German TV channel Tele 5: https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

    --
    Of course news about a fake are Fake News.