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FCC Loses Court Battle To Let Cities Build their Own Broadband (theverge.com)

Jacob Kastrenakes, writing for The Verge: The Federal Communications Commission's plan to let cities build their own broadband networks hit a major roadblock today, as a federal appellate court ruled that the commission was overstepping its authority. The United States Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit said today that the FCC is not able to, essentially, remove state laws that prevent the construction of municipal broadband networks, as it attempted to do in Wilson, North Carolina and Chattanooga, Tennessee last year. Both Wilson and Chattanooga had petitioned the FCC for permission to build out their own broadband networks -- a measure some cities are turning to in order to increase competition among internet providers, who often hold regional monopolies and more or less refuse to compete. State laws, however, prevented them from doing so; that's the case in 19 states in total, all of which could have been affected by future FCC orders had the court ruled in its favor.Ars Technica has more details.

160 comments

  1. While It Sucks... by sycodon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...that Providers enjoy a monopoly, they do so because the elected officials provided it.

    The proper solution is through electing officials that will revoke the monopolies, not allow the Federal Government to intrude in State Business because once you allow that, you are likely to see i in other things that you decidedly don't want.

    --
    When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    1. Re:While It Sucks... by cdrudge · · Score: 4, Insightful

      not allow the Federal Government to intrude in State Business

      Many of the arguments that apply with federal government meddling in state business also would apply to state governments meddling in local business...especially when companies fail to deliver adequate services.

    2. Re:While It Sucks... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In other words, we're screwed. But make it a great day!

    3. Re:While It Sucks... by Fire_Wraith · · Score: 4, Insightful

      ...that Providers enjoy a monopoly, they do so because the elected officials provided it.

      The proper solution is through electing officials that will revoke the monopolies, not allow the Federal Government to intrude in State Business because once you allow that, you are likely to see i in other things that you decidedly don't want.

      So why is it bad when the Federal Government tells a State what to do, but it's a-okay when the State tells a City what to do?

      You do realize that the Federal Government is perfectly authorized to regulate interstate commerce, right?

      By the way, it's also not so easy to simply elect officials based on a single issue, on any level except the local, unless you manage to make that issue a single hot-button, which really only occurs for a very few number of sparing things. Furthermore, it's not always simply the case of "enforced monopoly", because in many cases the amount of investment needed to wire a city in competition with an established provider is very large, and the expected rate of return just doesn't justify a second private company making it, so passing a community bond issue is really your only option short of praying to Google to come to your town.

    4. Re:While It Sucks... by tomhath · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Many of the arguments that apply with federal government meddling in state business also would apply to state governments meddling in local business

      The same arguments do apply, but it's irrelevant in this case.

      The FCC doesn't make laws, that's Congress' job. They were trying to override the state laws without the authority to do so.

    5. Re:While It Sucks... by sycodon · · Score: 4, Informative

      Well, first, the relationship between the states and tghe Federal government are not the same.

      Second, A state regulating business within it's own borders is not "interstate commerce". But don't count out some tool from trying to make that argument.

      Third, it's too bad change is hard. Seems to me, it was set up that way on purpose.

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    6. Re:While It Sucks... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The elected officials who couldn't see the forest for the trees when it came to a deal that was not good for their citizens, yet made the shortsighted deal thanks to kickbacks or other favors.

      While I think the experimentation of democracy on a per-state basis is part of the fabric of the United States, in some areas this fragmentation has allowed for businesses to take advantage of local municipalities, as when it comes to building economically disastrous sports stadiums.

      In this case, as in others, a central authority helping curb these abuses is necessary. Local governments simply don't have the knowledge and expertise to understand these local monopolies they grant to national corporations. Perhaps once a company operates in more than one state, it needs to be overseen by a federal authority. Otherwise, these abuses (as well as our abysmal growth rate of broadband access and speed improvements) will continue.

    7. Re:While It Sucks... by the_Bionic_lemming · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes, and the government needs to push back like it did for 55 mph speed limits nationwide.

      Cut Federal Funding until the states comply with the directive.

      --
      _ _ _ Go for the eyes Boo! GO FOR THE EYES!
    8. Re:While It Sucks... by tippen · · Score: 1

      So why is it bad when the Federal Government tells a State what to do, but it's a-okay when the State tells a City what to do?

      Because of the 10th Amendment: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

      There's a pretty limited set of powers for the federal government enumerated in the Constitution. Probably 80% of what the Feds do isn't really allowed by the Constitution. They only get away with it because judges do their wink-wink bit and let things slide, frequently under some tortured interpretation of the commerce clause.

      While there is a common belief that local control is "A Good Thing(tm)", any protection cities would have from State government depends on laws from that state.

    9. Re:While It Sucks... by sycodon · · Score: 1

      Clarifying... the relationship between State Government and Cities is not the same as the relationship between the Federal Government and Cities.

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    10. Re:While It Sucks... by msauve · · Score: 4, Informative

      "So why is it bad when the Federal Government tells a State what to do, but it's a-okay when the State tells a City what to do?"

      Why is it bad, or why is it illegal? The federal Constitution reserves powers not granted to the feds for the states. Whether a state has power over a city is a matter of that state's Constitution. From a quick look at the NC Constitution, the state General Assembly seems to have the power to enact "general laws uniformly applicable throughout the State," which seems to give them authority to preempt local laws, so long as it's done uniformly.

      "the Federal Government is perfectly authorized to regulate interstate commerce, right?"

      Even accepting that the Internet is interstate commerce, the issue is how much of that authority has Congress given the FCC. The linked article specifically mentions that - "to overrule a state law ... the court said, requires an agency's power to be clearly stated in federal law."

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    11. Re:While It Sucks... by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      You don't mind if I apply that to things like slavery, child labor laws, desegregation, and pollution (which doesn't respect state lines) regulation, do you?

      When the local authorities fail to protect us, sometimes it is necessary to call in the cavalry. But we are then responsible for its oversight also.

      This is just another unfortunate incident of government serving the interests of its biggest "contributors", and a submissive public that won't take the issue into the voting booth.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    12. Re:While It Sucks... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You do realize that the Federal Government is perfectly authorized to regulate interstate commerce, right?

      Which they've stretched WELL beyond the breaking point

    13. Re:While It Sucks... by Ichijo · · Score: 1

      in many cases the amount of investment needed to wire a city in competition with an established provider is very large, and the expected rate of return just doesn't justify a second private company making it, so passing a community bond issue is really your only option short of praying to Google to come to your town.

      Why can't you require the company that owns the wires to lease it at a fair rate to other ISPs?

      Better yet, prohibit the company that owns the wires from also being an ISP.

      --
      Any sufficiently unpopular but cohesive argument is indistinguishable from trolling.
    14. Re:While It Sucks... by fustakrakich · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The internet is hardly "within its own borders". The states can't regulate which trucking companies operate on the interstate highways either. Why should we let them regulate this? This is precisely one of those things we need the feds for.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    15. Re:While It Sucks... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Cut Federal Funding until the states comply with the directive.

      The Constitution places restrictions on what the federal government can do. It is an abuse of its taxing authority to use it to impose otherwise unconstitutional demands on the states. Municipal broadband has mostly worked well, and IMO should be allowed, but if you allow the federal bureaucrats to bend the states to their will on this, then the door is open to federal impositions on many other issues that you may not like so much.

      The bottom line, is that if we want better government, then we should vote for it.

    16. Re:While It Sucks... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A state regulating business within it's own borders is not "interstate commerce"

      A layman (and the plain meaning of words on a page) might say you're right, but SCOTUS disagrees.

    17. Re:While It Sucks... by neghvar1 · · Score: 1

      nominees for state and federal positions become pathological liars during campaign time. Once elected they follow the demands of their largest financial providers. By the time the next election comes around, the people have forgotten how much of a pathological liar the politician is and once again believe their lofty claims of utopia. Once elected, they get shit on all over again. So electing new politicians will not solve the problem.

    18. Re:While It Sucks... by the_Bionic_lemming · · Score: 1

      Worked damn well for the nationwide 55 .They did it before and they can do it again.

      --
      _ _ _ Go for the eyes Boo! GO FOR THE EYES!
    19. Re:While It Sucks... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are forgetting the bonuses and insane All Time High profits that corporations enjoy today. If anything, you should be celebrating!

    20. Re:While It Sucks... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      So why is it bad when the Federal Government tells a State what to do, but it's a-okay when the State tells a City what to do?

      It is not "a-okay", but is an issue to be resolved by the voters of that state, not by federal bureaucrats.

    21. Re:While It Sucks... by GLMDesigns · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You think the nationwide 55 was a good idea?

      You want to increase the power of Imperial Washington?

      The one clear check and balance on Imperial Washington are the states. If you're not happy about the Patriot Act, NSA over reaching then maybe, just maybe, you ought to be wary about other over reaches (even if the particular instance leads to a desired result).

      --
      If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
      Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
    22. Re:While It Sucks... by Compumyst · · Score: 1

      The bottom line, is that if we want better government, then we should vote for it.

      Yes, we should vote on it. But it seems that any politician that agrees with the mass's opinion on some topics, it is the opposite on other topics. So a politician that is willing to help fix things with oligopoly will probably screw things over elsewhere in society.

      ... but if you allow the federal bureaucrats to bend the states to their will on this, then the door is open to federal impositions on many other issues that you may not like so much.

      So, you're opposed to the federal government telling states to open up competition?

      --
      What's done's in the past, forever shall last.
      Work is work; life is life; fair is not!
    23. Re:While It Sucks... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not sure where you're from but in some states the officials over-seeing the 'public utilities commissions' or similiar, which things like telecomm and broadband state licensing have to go through, are appointed positions by an elected official. Namely the Governor or Lieutenant Governor.

      Filtering out the secondary or tertiary appointments by the primary candidate is much harder idea at the election booth. And this structure, again, varies from state to state. Sadly, changing this in states with entrenched monopolies would require wholesale shift from the reigning political party in the state. That is something not easily done. That doesn't even touch local municipalities, and their politics, who often favor regional monopolies over competition.
      - i.e. , good luck getting that 'poll tac' for the lines you want ran in the local city. They're legally obligated to do it, but they sure as hell aren't bound to a schedule,

      This is not something going to be fixed in the next half decade. Wireless would need to expand by several orders of magnitude and put a dent in landline providers, before they might actually stop dragging their feet.

    24. Re:While It Sucks... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem there is that they will simply either buy the new official once in office or if they truly appear to be untouchable they will instead dump tons of money into the pockets of the official they can buy. The only real hope to dislodge them is a third party to step in and issue regulation that negates that which was bought and paid for.

    25. Re:While It Sucks... by the_Bionic_lemming · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No, 55 mph was a stupid idea.

      And them repeating the tactic isn't growing anything. An example of this has happened, and can happen again anytime.

      You are arguing "Black or White" , I am saying this is (not 50) "shades of grey" .

      There is a clear abuse going on between comcast and state government. I have absolutely no issue with the government stepping in with the retraction of federal funding to crush that.

      --
      _ _ _ Go for the eyes Boo! GO FOR THE EYES!
    26. Re:While It Sucks... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's pretty rare for elected officials to revoke anything that's not fully understood by the larger community. These laws are going nowhere without the issue being forced.

    27. Re:While It Sucks... by GLMDesigns · · Score: 1

      While I'm not on the side of government - this is to be handled by the states. And yes, the states can be just as foolishly run (or corrupt) as the federal government. I don't think the FCC ought to be involved with this.

      And, yes most things are shades of gray (like the way you phrased it :-) but this would be a horrible expansion of the federal role. (One that I think needs to be tremendously pared down.

      --
      If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
      Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
    28. Re:While It Sucks... by the_Bionic_lemming · · Score: 1

      I disagree that it's an expansion as I cited an example. So I agree to disagree.

      --
      _ _ _ Go for the eyes Boo! GO FOR THE EYES!
    29. Re:While It Sucks... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      ...that Providers enjoy a monopoly, they do so because the elected officials provided it.

      Not necessarily, and as a matter of actual legislative decision, those kinds of franchise agreements are now banned.

      By the United States Congress. Who did it over 2 decades ago. So stop blaming that.

      The proper solution is through electing officials that will revoke the monopolies, not allow the Federal Government to intrude in State Business because once you allow that, you are likely to see it in other things that you decidedly don't want.

      Except as mentioned above, there are no such monopolies granted by state or local authority, rather the problem here is banning local governments from engaging in a service to their public by the state governments.

      So your premise seems to be flawed. Not to mention how you seem to be operating under the assumption that Federal intervention is a bad thing, however that is not borne out by experience. State governments have been consistently negligent when it comes to securing rights, or downright oppressive, and the Federal practice of holding off has caused more harm by inaction than any demonstrated oppression by the Federal Government.

      Sorry, but that's just history for you. State sovereignty has not been a kind and beneficent force, but rather abuse and neglect. The libertarian mindset has not lead to more freedom, but strictly speaking, less, and more suffering. That's why it keeps getting rejected, as it fails to accomplish what it purports to do. Your religion is a sham, a false philosophy that deserves scorn.

      Even in this instance, you have neglected to identify a federal action that has caused a problem, while the state governments have been the ones who have engaged in the reprehensible conduct, namely forbidding their local institutions from taking action that their people want.

      Given how many state governments are demonstrably gerrymandered, perhaps the Feds need to intervene even more than they did with Reynolds v. Sims and Baker v. Carr.

      Of course, to do that, we'd need the Feds to exercise the will of the people, and they're unfortunately compromised as well. That's why they've been able to do nothing for the past few sessions, even trumpeting their victories as a vote to repeal the ACA dozens of times...uh-what? That's supposed to sound good? Are they that dumb, or are people dumb enough to believe it?

      You can find a lot of flaws in government, that's true, but your objections are based on shallow examinations, and instead of thorough consideration, you're just relying on principles you purport to believe in, without adding an element of comprehension and articulation.

    30. Re:While It Sucks... by knightghost · · Score: 1

      Corporations already own the states because states are too small to push back. Divide and Conquer.

    31. Re:While It Sucks... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, if you ever want to stop importing foreign oil and funding bad regimes around the world, we will need to drive 55mph. A good percentage of fuel use in the US is used to drive 70-80mph instead of 55mph. Oil companies love the increased revenue though and helped get it passed easily in many states.

    32. Re:While It Sucks... by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 1

      I agree with the FCC's position that cities should be able to install those services, and I also agree with the ruling that it is outside their authority.

      If any federal government authority could rule on such a matter, it should be the SEC, not the FCC. It is a matter of business practice, competition, and monopolies. It is not a matter of how communications are performed or restricted. The FCC's authority should apply equally to any provider of such services and be blind to who is providing them.

    33. Re:While It Sucks... by pete6677 · · Score: 1

      You are entirely missing the point here. Speed limits are not something that need to be set at the federal level.

    34. Re:While It Sucks... by radarskiy · · Score: 1

      The federal constitution reserves powers not granted to the PEOPLE. Powers specifically granted go to either the states or the federal government, but that does not mean that the states get anything not granted.

    35. Re:While It Sucks... by msauve · · Score: 1

      Reading comprehension fail - "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." - 10th Amendment

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    36. Re:While It Sucks... by mishehu · · Score: 0, Redundant

      Ah yes, the good ol' 55 mph efficiency argument. It's bullcrap. I get my best mpg at 80+ mph. And I've not encountered a modern vehicle that gets its peak mpg before hitting 65 mph.

    37. Re:While It Sucks... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      BS - only if you have a 65mph wind at your back

    38. Re:While It Sucks... by swillden · · Score: 2

      The FCC doesn't make laws, that's Congress' job. They were trying to override the state laws without the authority to do so.

      But does Congress have the authority?

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    39. Re:While It Sucks... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So why is it bad when the Federal Government tells a State what to do, but it's a-okay when the State tells a City what to do?

      It is not "a-okay", but is an issue to be resolved by the voters of that state, not by federal bureaucrats.

      Why? Because funnily enough, I don't recall this being put up for plebiscite or referendum anywhere. Not even in Alabama where almost anything seems to require a constitutional amendment with a statewide vote.

      Given the average outcome, the federal bureaucrat seems to be acting more and more in my interest.

      This is despite the best efforts of my elected federal legislators. Not a one of them have ever shown the slightest interest in my concerns, they can't even demonstrate a capacity to grasp them.

    40. Re:While It Sucks... by swillden · · Score: 1

      So why is it bad when the Federal Government tells a State what to do, but it's a-okay when the State tells a City what to do?

      Did you skip your civics class in high school?

      States are sovereign governments, which (ignoring some bits I'm going to get to in a moment) give them unlimited power within their borders to do what they like, and the cities within them are completely subject to their will. The states entered into an agreement with the federal government when they joined the union (or when they ratified the constitution), which explicitly gives the federal government specific, limited powers over the states. Within the scope of those enumerated powers, federal law overrules any state law, up to and including state constitutions. Outside of those enumerated powers (which were greatly broadened by the 14th amendment), the federal government has no authority to tell the state what to do.

      So, to directly answer your question: It's bad when the federal government tells a state to do something it doesn't have the authority to tell it to do. There is no such limit on the authority of states over cities (unless it's written into state law... which actually does happen in some cases).

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    41. Re:While It Sucks... by ProzacPatient · · Score: 2

      Actually states and their relationship with the federal government are defined in US constitution. Local governments however are political subdivisions of each individual state and it is up to each state and that state's constitution as to how much autonomy local political subdivisions should have.

      So in short basically local governments, in most if not all cases, exist to keep the peace and handle more mundane matters on behalf of the state's legislature which created those local governments but a lot of people seem to forget that and think local governments somehow have some sort of inherent sovereignty.

    42. Re: While It Sucks... by GoodNewsJimDotCom · · Score: 1

      Oh that's simple, all we need to do is not get corrupt officials in. What do you propose the solution be? Right now bribery of politicians is legal with campaign contributions, but making that illegal won't be a complete fix.

    43. Re:While It Sucks... by Snufu · · Score: 1

      if you allow the state bureaucrats to bend the municipalities to their will on this, then the door is open to state impositions on many other issues that you may not like so much.

    44. Re:While It Sucks... by Snufu · · Score: 1

      The one clear check and balance on Imperial Washington are the states.

      Then what is the check on state's imposing their will on municipalities?

    45. Re:While It Sucks... by fnj · · Score: 3, Informative

      The federal constitution reserves powers not granted to the PEOPLE. Powers specifically granted go to either the states or the federal government, but that does not mean that the states get anything not granted.

      You couldn't be more wrong. The US Constitution:
      1) Guarantees certain defined rights to all the people in every state.
      2) Grants certain defined powers to the Federal Government.

      All other power, without further limit, devolves to the individual states. Each of them is sovereign, and can write anything into its own constitution, subject only to the above two specific limitations.

    46. Re:While It Sucks... by uncqual · · Score: 1

      Should that happen, the voters of the state can change their state's constitution to limit the control the state has -- or, just vote in state level politicians that will eliminate laws that the state's voters find undesirable.

      Just as we could amend the United States Constitution to grant Congress the ability to enact laws that implement Social Security or Medicare or to ban people from taking medications that improve their health or save their life. Perhaps some day we will do so.

      Remember the quaint old days when a Constitutional Amendment was thought necessary to ban manufacturing, sale, importation, and transportation of alcoholic beverages? Now the FDA could just probably just declare it a controlled substance and ban not only its manufacturing, sale, importation, and transportation but it's possession and use as well.

      --
      Why is there an "insightful" mod and why isn't it "-1"? If I wanted insight, I wouldn't be reading /.
    47. Re:While It Sucks... by fnj · · Score: 2, Informative

      You're the one who is completely full of unsupported bullshit. EVERY car gets better fuel efficiency at 55 than the same car at 80. The force or thrust required to overcome rolling friction is constant with speed, and the force or thrust required to overcome air resistance rises proportionally to the SQUARE of the speed. That means that the POWER (P=f times v) to overcome rolling friction rises proportionally to the speed, and the power required to overcome air resistance rises proportionally to the CUBE of the speed. Finally, the energy required to move a given DISTANCE (E = P times t) varies in exactly the same ratio as the first relationship.

    48. Re:While It Sucks... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's no demand in saying "if you want $x, you do y." It's completely voluntary.

    49. Re:While It Sucks... by BradMajors · · Score: 1

      What do you have against Canada and why are you calling it a "bad regime"?

    50. Re:While It Sucks... by sycodon · · Score: 1

      That's precisely the fucking Bullshit thinking that has the Fed regulating every aspect of our lives.

      The fucking air I breath comes from across state lines so the Feds can regulate how I breath?

      Fuck you, asshole,.

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    51. Re:While It Sucks... by sycodon · · Score: 1

      Why can't they require you to make your house available to some homeless dude twice a month?

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    52. Re:While It Sucks... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think the appropriate action is to invoke the Antitrust Laws of the Federal Trade Commission and indict both the companies and lawmakers who approved the monopolies.

    53. Re:While It Sucks... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      55mph is pretty fast if you use the right road. Good luck holding 35.

    54. Re:While It Sucks... by sycodon · · Score: 1

      So...two decades ago they were banned. Yet, they still exist. So, ya, you can blame the monopoly agreements.

      The rest of your prattle is just bullshit that argues there is no reason for state to exist at all.

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    55. Re: While It Sucks... by sycodon · · Score: 1

      So lets just go around the system and fuck shit up directly...subject to whoever is in power are whatever level of Federal government if fucking shit up.

      Do you fucking morons even listen to what you say??

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    56. Re:While It Sucks... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Voters are too stupid. Voting is the lesser of the many evils, but it is still an evil. In theory, I would be a benevolent dictator, but I've read too many history books that it always ends badly.

    57. Re:While It Sucks... by MillionthMonkey · · Score: 1

      The fucking air I breath comes from across state lines so the Feds can regulate how I breath? Fuck you asshole.

      WTF?

      The Feds can regulate what people in other states can force you to breathe, yeah. If a factory in one state emits pollutants that flow downwind and cause health problems for people in an adjacent state, the Feds are the only ones who can do anything about it. I didn't realize that could be hard for anyone to understand.

      (Also, why does it seem so hard for some people to understand that "breath" is a noun and "breathe" is a verb?)

    58. Re:While It Sucks... by mishehu · · Score: 1

      You can sit and try to deduce things mathematically with an ideal and simplistic system. But that's theory, not practice. I have gigabytes of telemetry that I've collected that say otherwise.

    59. Re:While It Sucks... by MillionthMonkey · · Score: 1

      Probably 80% of what the Feds do isn't really allowed by the Constitution. They only get away with it because judges do their wink-wink bit and let things slide

      ...and because the Constitution itself dictates that the judiciary system is the sole body responsible for interpretation of the document.

    60. Re:While It Sucks... by GLMDesigns · · Score: 2

      There isn't. But the concept is that an informed citizenry (as opposed to subjects who are ruled) have a greater ability to change the structure of a state government then they do the federal. Is this a cure-all. No. Of course no.

      --
      If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
      Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
    61. Re:While It Sucks... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Remember the quaint old days when a Constitutional Amendment was thought necessary to ban manufacturing, sale, importation, and transportation of alcoholic beverages? Now the FDA could just probably just declare it a controlled substance and ban not only its manufacturing, sale, importation, and transportation but it's possession and use as well.

      Unless you consider that the 18th Amendment did not grant the ability, it compelled the mandate to prohibit alcohol at the behest of the Temperance movement.

      It was not legal authority, it was establishing political policy for the entire nation.

      As it stands, Alcohol is already regulated by the ATF, and remains as such. No need to worry about the FDA.

    62. Re: While It Sucks... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shades of grey? You're fucking stupid. You are required, under the threat of imprisonment, to give money to an insurance company. Yes. You are required, by federal overreach, to pay a private company or go to jail. Tell me that isn't a black or white.

    63. Re:While It Sucks... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did you skip your civics class in high school?

      Did you skip English class?

      Here's the question:

      So why is it bad when the Federal Government tells a State what to do, but it's a-okay when the State tells a City what to do?

      Do you understand how you didn't answer it?

      States are sovereign governments, which (ignoring some bits I'm going to get to in a moment) give them unlimited power within their borders to do what they like, and the cities within them are completely subject to their will. The states entered into an agreement with the federal government when they joined the union (or when they ratified the constitution), which explicitly gives the federal government specific, limited powers over the states. Within the scope of those enumerated powers, federal law overrules any state law, up to and including state constitutions. Outside of those enumerated powers (which were greatly broadened by the 14th amendment), the federal government has no authority to tell the state what to do.

      So, to directly answer your question: It's bad when the federal government tells a state to do something it doesn't have the authority to tell it to do. There is no such limit on the authority of states over cities (unless it's written into state law... which actually does happen in some cases).

      Let's see, you're not saying why it's bad for one, but fine for the other. You're just saying that it is such and such a way.

      This, despite the obliviousness of many, was not the question being asked. The question being asked was "Why" and you are not making a good explanation, you're just relying on an arrogant pretension of superiority.

      Do you not realize how unpersuasive you are? How off-putting this rebuttal is, and how you are coming across as oblivious and non-responsive?

      It'd be one thing if you had simply made a statement of the current construction of things, but no, no, you just had to be condescending.

      Well, "Mr. I took Civics Class and I know better" why don't you get around to understanding the REAL question?

      Do it. Don't wrap yourself on "That's the way we do things around here" but examine and consider the situation.

      Then maybe you'll understand where others are coming from. They see an abuse perpetuated by state governments upon their civic authorities, and people like you don't even bother to try to articulate a real reasoning for it, but instead devolve yourself into what is really a non-responsive explanation that only reveals your pretension, it doesn't give anybody a convincing statement of purpose.

    64. Re:While It Sucks... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Due to the guarantees of private property ownership/control enshrined in the Constitution. Companies requiring public land use/easements to run their lines have limited protection under the Constitution, since those lines go through land that does not specifically belong to them.

      If Comcast owned all the land through which their lines traveled lock, stock, and barrel, then it would be similar . . . but it really isn't.

      Never mind that Comcast frequently receives public subsidy to build out their networks.

    65. Re:While It Sucks... by uncqual · · Score: 1

      The 18th Amendment was legal authority -- just as much if the Postal Clause had originally been omitted from Article I Section 8 and a later Amendment gave Congress the power "To establish Post Offices and post Roads". Just because a portion of the Constitution (which includes all the ratified Amendments) is "political" doesn't preclude it from being legal authority. Virtually every phrase in the Constitution can be viewed as "political policy".

      --
      Why is there an "insightful" mod and why isn't it "-1"? If I wanted insight, I wouldn't be reading /.
    66. Re:While It Sucks... by hackwrench · · Score: 1

      The Constitutional limitations on federal power have never been anything more than a ruse to lull detractors of unlimited government power into a false sense of security. Look into Hobbes and Hamiltonian beliefs and you might be able to detect the real agenda, but it has been an unending shell game since at least The Federalist Papers.
      We all need to have a sit-down and talk about what form of government we all want to have. To that end, I have created The Pirate-Ninja-Zombie Party Facebook group.

    67. Re: While It Sucks... by grahamsz · · Score: 0

      Many states don't require insurance.

      You can self insure if you own a lot of vehicles or your can usually post some kind of bond to prove that you have the means to pay for any accident you cause.

    68. Re: While It Sucks... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not "pay insurance if you want to drive". You must pay the health insurance cartel for the privilege of breathing. you breathe? Every year you must prove that the insurance companies have been payed for your license to breathe.

    69. Re:While It Sucks... by hackwrench · · Score: 1

      Thw Hobbes Hamiltonians have us all mixed up such that we can in one moment be saying we are not for government and the next supporting the very government that has kept us all in chains since the inception of the Constitution. Yes just like everything else, the Hobbes Hamiltonians are not a monolithic group and some are seen as useful idiots by the others.
      No this is not to be handles by the states. This is my position, but not even the states should have been given the amount of power they have. It all goes to the not on the side of government delusion we have been given. When they can't get you at the Federal level, they find a way to stick it to you at the State.
      We all need to take a break and sit down and talk about the form of government we really want and to that end, I have created The Pirate-Ninja-Zombie Party Facebook group.

    70. Re:While It Sucks... by hackwrench · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but the trick is that the Hobbes/Hamiltonians don't believe there can ever be a well-informed citizenry and do their best to undermine informing the people when it comes to matters of government and morality. Ever wonder why they don't teach how to develop your own sense of morality from even the well-established building blocks having to do with morals? Hobbesian philosophy states that the only thing the common man needs to know about morality is that absolute devotion to the state is a must and the major thrust of Hamiltonian work is tricking the common man and the less-common but still not ruling class material man into accepting a state of affairs where some dictate of the state is obeyed be it at the Federal, State, or City level. Police should only give orders when there is real harm about to be done.

    71. Re:While It Sucks... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why can't they require you to make your house available to some homeless dude twice a month?

      Thanks to Eminent Domain, they already can. As long as I'm compensated, as the property owner. This isn't news.

      Fortunately, thanks to general practical reason, it's much more effective to do other things. For one thing, there is an excess of unutilized housing space. For another, there's plenty of undeveloped public land that could be used more productively since my house is hardly a desirable residence for the average homeless dude.

      Of course, as noted, the wiring is done through easements, which is necessarily intruding on my property rights.

    72. Re:While It Sucks... by tsotha · · Score: 2

      That's all true, but aren't you neglecting the other half of the equation? Engines are more efficient at certain RPMs, and how fast you're going at the engine's most efficient RPM is a function of gearing.

    73. Re:While It Sucks... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can sit and try to deduce things mathematically with an ideal and simplistic system. But that's theory, not practice. I have gigabytes of telemetry that I've collected that say otherwise.

      Exactly! I have terabytes of data demonstrating the perpetual motion machine I built out of water, aluminum foil and magnets. Don't let those so called "experts" with their "book larnin'" tell you otherwise! Global warming is a scam invented by China, Obama killed JFK and Hillary ordered the attack on the Hindenberg! It's all in my radio broadcast that you can tune into with the fillings in your teeth!

      Trump2016!

    74. Re:While It Sucks... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why can't they require you to make your house available to some homeless dude twice a month?

      For the same reason (or not) that the States can't. This is the same answer to every other "State's Rights" BS post of yours.

      Parry, riposte.

    75. Re:While It Sucks... by dryeo · · Score: 2

      How many States routinely change their government? How often does a new party get into power in a State? From what I know about America, the States are ruled by the same party as the Federal government, a party that presents 2 faces, that disagree on minor issues but on the big issues, they agree, and they hardly ever listen to their subjects on the big issues.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    76. Re:While It Sucks... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow, are you spewing BS. Modern vehicles peak (MPG) below 60 MPH. Deal with it.

    77. Re:While It Sucks... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And my telemetry says you're a troll...

    78. Re: While It Sucks... by MidnightBrewer · · Score: 1

      Imposing taxes would be illegal, but cutting state welfare would not. The government did the same thing to bring all the state drinking ages into line, too. "You can set your age to whatever you want, but you'll have to forgo this huge blank check for infrastructural improvements."

      --
      "Give a man fire, and he'll be warm for a day; set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life
    79. Re: While It Sucks... by MidnightBrewer · · Score: 2

      Don't say "imperial Washington". It's factually incorrect and just undermines the legitimacy of your opinions.

      --
      "Give a man fire, and he'll be warm for a day; set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life
    80. Re:While It Sucks... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      Yes, if you ever want to stop importing foreign oil and funding bad regimes around the world, we will need to drive 55mph.

      I have an electric car and solar panels on my roof to recharge it. So why should I drive 55mph?

    81. Re:While It Sucks... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      that disagree on minor issues but on the big issues, they agree

      They disagree on THIS ISSUE. Democrats generally support municipal broadband, and Republicans generally support the right of states to ban it. Even the FCC voted along party lines.

    82. Re:While It Sucks... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, and the government needs to push back like it did for 55 mph speed limits nationwide.

      What 55 mph limit?

      I have multiple 2-lane state/FM road within 1 mile of me that are 60-70 mph limits and a freeway (through city) with 75 mph.

      The only limits I see below 60 are local surface streets (25-40 mph)

      And some states have up to 80-05 mph

      So WTF are you talking about.

    83. Re:While It Sucks... by strikethree · · Score: 2

      While your argument is sound, my experience says that there must be more to it than that.

      I had a 99 Saturn SL1. At 65mph it averaged, roughly 34mpg. At 80mph, it averaged roughly 38mpg. These numbers are from memory but they are roughly correct. It surprised me greatly to discover these numbers.

      How can this be? I am unsure. Possibly something to do with gearing and RPMs. Weird, but empirical data outweighs theory every time.

      --
      "Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
    84. Re:While It Sucks... by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      The states can't regulate which trucking companies operate on the interstate highways either.

      The states definitely can regulate the trucking companies that are located within the state. This includes matters such as licensing the drivers and requiring insurance - and not allowing drivers without a license or insurance to drive on the roads, including interstate highways.

    85. Re:While It Sucks... by dcw3 · · Score: 1

      I'm generally as fan of states rights. However, the FCC was given this charter by federal law, which trumps state law...
      The Federal Communications Commission regulates interstate and international communications by radio, television, wire, satellite and cable in all 50 states, the District of Columbia and U.S. territories.

      In this case, I'd argue that we don't want 50+ different sets of rules for the internet. And, allowing individual ISPs to have singular control of an area is anti-competitive, monopolistic behavior. Competition improves service...monopolies don't.

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    86. Re:While It Sucks... by dcw3 · · Score: 1

      Wrong. Try reading Title 47 of the US Code. The FCC was already given this authority by Congress.

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    87. Re:While It Sucks... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The 18th Amendment was legal authority -- just as much if the Postal Clause had originally been omitted from Article I Section 8 and a later Amendment gave Congress the power "To establish Post Offices and post Roads". Just because a portion of the Constitution (which includes all the ratified Amendments) is "political" doesn't preclude it from being legal authority. Virtually every phrase in the Constitution can be viewed as "political policy".

      Oh, you're confused, as you're not grasping what I'm saying, which is that the 18th Amendment, tied the hands of Congress, and the States. It required the banning of intoxicating liquors. It didn't authorize it, it mandated it.

      That's what makes it distinguishable from a mere grant of authority. They didn't leave it up to anyone else to decide. The Temperance movement forced it down on us, and that's why it's a precedent for the bad way to do things. For which it is very good. (Much like say, Alabama's Constitution is a good example of a bad Constitution.)

      And no, not every phrase of the Constitution can, nor should they be viewed as the 18th Amendment should be, because then you'd just not be able to see the difference in them, or why the 18th Amendment was a bad way to do things.

      Anyway, as I said, the ATF has alcohol covered.

    88. Re: While It Sucks... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, please stop the Empire of Washington .

    89. Re:While It Sucks... by Karlt1 · · Score: 1

      Yeah because we can always trust states to do the right thing without the federal government interfering especially in the Deep South.....

    90. Re: While It Sucks... by GLMDesigns · · Score: 1

      Well. Power is centralizing at an enormous rate. (Plus add the collection of data and the increasing nannyism - not only by people in power but by voters,)

      It isn't Imperial Washington in 2016 but what about 2036?

      --
      If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
      Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
    91. Re:While It Sucks... by Beezlebub33 · · Score: 1

      That's precisely the fucking Bullshit thinking that has the Fed regulating every aspect of our lives.

      The fucking air I breath comes from across state lines so the Feds can regulate how I breath?

      No, but the Feds can regulate how much pollution a company can produce because it crosses state lines.

      --
      The more people I meet, the better I like my dog.
    92. Re:While It Sucks... by the_Bionic_lemming · · Score: 1

      History, Ask your grade school teacher about the 1970's.

      And don't stay up after bedtime. You have school tomorrow...

      --
      _ _ _ Go for the eyes Boo! GO FOR THE EYES!
    93. Re:While It Sucks... by dywolf · · Score: 1

      The hell it aint

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    94. Re:While It Sucks... by GLMDesigns · · Score: 1

      No. Not accurate at all. States do change and it historically has not been tied to how they voted in federal elections. (That's been changing rapidly over the last decade.)

      Secondly neither party is monolithic. The Republican party is split between "establishment" which is for crony capitalism; libertarian / tea party which is greatly opposed to this and social conservatives who tend strongly to main street (as opposed to wall street) but for whom social issues is their primary concern.

      Main Street is a catch-all phrase that refers to small farmers, mom-and-pop stores, small and mid size businesses (as opposed to multinational, publicly traded conglomerates ).

      --
      If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
      Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
    95. Re:While It Sucks... by GLMDesigns · · Score: 1

      Wish I could mod you up.

      --
      If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
      Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
    96. Re:While It Sucks... by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 1

      RTFA.. That was not the issue here. The issue was over ruling state law, which the FCC could do if it were explicitly stated in federal law:

      "..the commission is not explicitly granted permission to overrule the states like this. And while government agencies are generally given deference to interpret their own powers where a law has left them unclear, the court determined that isn't the case in this situation. That's because it would be going so far as to overrule a state law, and that, the court said, requires an agency's power to be clearly stated in federal law." http://www.theverge.com/2016/8...

    97. Re:While It Sucks... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nonsense, if you can't over come local political corruption, a national platform should be able to overcome it. The FCC either has authority for this or has no authority at al for any regulation ever. This is complete corruption, even the appellate court has been corrupted.

    98. Re:While It Sucks... by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      Fuck you, asshole,.

      :-) Cute, but that doesn't address the issue of making me breath your effluence. Or maybe you're suggesting I move upwind? Hard to tell what people are saying these days.

      And be more careful with your punctuation. Every unnecessary bit requires more storage and only contaminates the air even more. In fact, under the circumstances, powering down your computer completely, and maybe donating it to a needy kid would be of great benefit to us all.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    99. Re:While It Sucks... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Practically speaking, state governments seem to screw up more than the federal government. There seem to be a greater variety of idiots on the national level who cancel each other out better.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    100. Re:While It Sucks... by azcodemonkey · · Score: 1

      How is municipal broadband interstate commerce?

    101. Re:While It Sucks... by farble1670 · · Score: 1

      The proper solution is through electing officials that will revoke the monopolies, not allow the Federal Government to intrude in State Business

      The fact that there's a law on books that PREVENTS local governments from deploying broadband is corruption most foul that should be stopped in whatever way possible. If that means fighting fire with fire so be it.

      once you allow that, you are likely to see i in other things that you decidedly don't want.

      Ah the slippery slope argument never fails to amuse. Not me, and not most everyone else. If anything, we use previous experience to make more informed, better subsequent decisions. So yeah, if the FCC proves it can fight for consumers' rights and the technological progress of our nation, I'm on that slippery slope.

    102. Re:While It Sucks... by farble1670 · · Score: 1

      Mine hits it around 45 MPH.

    103. Re:While It Sucks... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You couldn't be more wrong. The US Constitution:
      1) Guarantees certain defined rights to all the people in every state.
      2) Grants certain defined powers to the Federal Government.

      All other power, without further limit, devolves to the individual states. Each of them is sovereign, and can write anything into its own constitution, subject only to the above two specific limitations.

      You couldn't be more wrong. The US Bill of Rights is OPEN-ENDED. James Madison made it that way, to address the objection of the anti-federalists that any list of fundamental rights would be incomplete. The 9th Amendment provides for unspecified rights retained by the people, the 10th Amendment provides for unspecified rights reserved to the people. As with anything else in the Bill of Rights, this trumps everything in the pre-Bill of Rights Constitution: the Bill of Rights is the highest law in the land.

      Only a few of the items in the Bill of Rights are limited to Congress: as a matter of ethical practice of law and ethical government it is necessarily the case that the rest apply to ALL levels of government, and also apply to private entities (which could otherwise function as agents of government in infringing fundamental rights - something that has happened on many occasions).

      It is not 'certain defined rights', rather it is ANY rights the people choose to assert. By definition, rights retained by the people are retained by the people: it is illegal and unethical for any entity of government to try to take them away.

      When the people assert such rights, government all all levels must respect them, and it it entirely appropriate for the federal government to act when government at any other level violates such rights (and vice-versa). That is, in fact, the legal justification for the actions of the federal government during the Civil War.

      The right to ethical government, the right to ethical practice of law, the right to ethics in business: these are all fundamental rights, and as such are protected under the highest law in the land, at least in theory.

      In practice, you'll easily find laws (and precedents, and orders) at all levels of government that violate fundamental rights. The USA has a massive legal ethics problem, and the lawyers pay large campaign contributions to the political parties to ensure that nobody selected for judicial office rocks the boat on ethics issues: this shields a wide variety of practices that violate the law. It usually takes massive public effort to get government to obey the law, as we saw during the 1950's/1960's Civil Rights Movement.

      This situation is tremendously harmful to the USA as a nation, causing massive economic damage and allowing many fundamental rights to be violated, but so long as the public doesn't understand the problem - there's a lot of propaganda out there to divert and mislead attempts at reform - it will continue.

    104. Re:While It Sucks... by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      The FCC doesn't make laws, that's Congress' job.

      Congress made a law that the FCC can make regulations with force of law. Perfectly legal. If you don't like it, speak to your senator or representative.

    105. Re:While It Sucks... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And silence was the response.

  2. Racketeering by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sounds like 19 states + their broadband service provider cronies need to be brought up on racketeering charges.

  3. Capitalism is good... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As long as it means no competition for our big telecoms!

    1. Re:Capitalism is good... by halivar · · Score: 2, Informative

      When the state chooses the winners, it's not capitalism anymore.

    2. Re:Capitalism is good... by Fire_Wraith · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The State is already choosing the winner though - to protect the incumbent monopolist (Comcast/AT&T/etc as varies by which region). We're also not talking about a lean efficient private company being defended from a government competitor that runs at a loss thanks to tax money, but rather, a bloated monopoly incumbent providing poor service at usurious rates to the point that the citizens of those cities are so fed up that they're ready to vote for anything that might be better.

      And in the case of Chattanooga, they already know it is, because EPB (the power company there) has been providing Gigabit internet for years. It's the people just outside Chattanooga that want to get in on that, but thanks to Tennessee state law (and Georgia on the other side of the city) passed at the explicit behest of Comcast/etc, they can't get it.

      This is what they want to sell you as "capitalism" - a natural monopoly, reinforced by the State by preventing competition of any sort.

    3. Re:Capitalism is good... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's the best capitalism that money can buy. You should be celebrating!

    4. Re:Capitalism is good... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is what they want to sell you as "capitalism" - a natural monopoly, reinforced by the State by preventing competition of any sort.

      The historically accurate definition of the system you are describing is called 'Fascism' though in modern days its considered more fashionable to call it 'Crony Capitalism'
      Libertarians have trouble with words cause when they say 'Capitalism' they are usually thinking about free markets with minimal government interference that have a history of being awesome for the population as a whole and providing us all with a better quality of life (ex: Whole Foods, Samsung, and Uber), but a lot of time when modern people hear 'Capitalism' they think of Crony Capitalism/Fascism (ex: Time Warner, Haliburton, JP Morgan)

    5. Re:Capitalism is good... by fnj · · Score: 1

      Hah, hah, hah. Capitalism is ALL ABOUT privilege, arrogance, bribery, and corruption - gee golly, same situation as Communism ends up, isn't it? Because it's all about HUMAN FAILINGS. As long as humans are in charge, you're shit out of luck.

      I think you meant free enterprise. True free enterprise is about as rare as true communism.

    6. Re:Capitalism is good... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The same thing is happening to Tesla. Car dealerships are entrenched, and they don't want competition. So they go from State to State to flip the laws in their favor.

      The owner of the Ambassador Bridge between Canada and Detroit is using similar tactics to keep his monopoly. Canada has even offered to pay for a new bridge.

      Every business entrenches in an effort to protect their cheese. One of the ways that they do it is to buy the politicians. This is not capitalism. There is no free market.

  4. Good thing the West is free from 6th circuit by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

    7th circuit, baby!

    Give us that high high speed!

    I feel the need, the need to slurp up Gigabit plus speeds!

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  5. The ISP battle is won and lost on the local level by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The FCC has no power to control state law.

  6. So Bribery and Corruption wins by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's government today for you.

  7. Re:Government regulation preventing real competiti by aardvarkjoe · · Score: 3, Insightful

    when the federal government stands in the way of even local governments being able to do what they want in their own cities.

    State government, not federal.

    --

    How can we continue to believe in a just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
  8. Sarcasm? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    How funny that in a recent thread someone was trying to claim it was a fantasy that government regulation had no effect on ISP choice, when the federal government stands in the way of even local governments being able to do what they want in their own cities.

    State laws, however, prevented them from doing so; ...

    Are you being sarcastic? It's the Federal government that is trying to create more competition but STATE governments are stopping it.

    1. Re:Sarcasm? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How funny that in a recent thread someone was trying to claim it was a fantasy that government regulation had no effect on ISP choice, when the federal government stands in the way of even local governments being able to do what they want in their own cities.

      State laws, however, prevented them from doing so; ...

      Are you being sarcastic? It's the Federal government that is trying to create more competition but STATE governments are stopping it.

      You think the US Federal government is trying to create MORE competition?

      BWAAAA HAAA HAAA HAAA!!!

      What color is the sky on your planet?

    2. Re:Sarcasm? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      State laws, however, prevented them from doing so; ...

      Are you being sarcastic? It's the Federal government that is trying to create more competition but STATE governments are stopping it.

      It's actually the telcos that line the pockets of the local state government that are doing it. They have mandated monopolies, and they will do everything they can to keep them. Replacing the elected officials will not change that, and that's assuming you can find more than a dozen people to actually give a crap.

      Until massive 5G roll-out takes place, the telcos will squeeze every dime out of their market. The only way to bring competition is infrastructure being built by the tax payer and leased to service providers - precising the thing some cities have been trying to do but are thwarted by their own people. Follow the money. Make bribes/lobbying a criminal offence.

  9. States rights for the win! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    If we don't stand up to big government to protect the interests of innovaters like Comcst and AT&T, who will?

  10. next states will race to have the lowest min wage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    next states will race to have the lowest min wage

  11. Re:Government regulation preventing real competiti by Sir_Eptishous · · Score: 1

    How funny that in a recent thread someone was trying to claim it was a fantasy that government regulation had no effect on ISP choice, when the federal government stands in the way of even local governments being able to do what they want in their own cities.

    Keep hittin the glass pipe Ken!

    --
    We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
  12. Vote 'em out. by dbreeze · · Score: 0

    If you're not busy finding alternatives to incumbent representatives at all levels you're doing it wrong. If your current sheriff/mayor/representative ain't catching hell for revolutionary behavior, vote 'em out. Look for candidates the MSM is ignoring or trashing and give 'em a job. We can swap 'em out again in 2-6 years if they don't get the message. The 'establishment', and all connected to it, have got to be thrown out of power ASAP because they're busy as beavers tooling the system to make it impossible to fight them.

    --
    When the king heard the words of the Book of the Law he tore his robes.2Kings22:11
    1. Re:Vote 'em out. by thomasw_lrd · · Score: 1

      That's what I've been saying for years.

      Yes major corporations have more money to buy politicians, but at the end of the day, they can't physically vote. Only people can. I'm sure when the people start firing representatives every time they come up for election. Either the politicians or the companies will see it as a losing game at some point.

      Of course then the companies will just attempt to buy the peoples votes instead.....

  13. You've got it sideways. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The major providers are extremely rich, so they can afford legislation that will protect their monopoly.

    The FCC does not have equivalently-wealthy backers, and as such is much weaker legally.

    If you want this changed, voting for a rep that promises this might help. But the REAL victory will be won by a lobbyist. Your most effective means of making this happen is to find that lobby, and fund it.

  14. Municipal broadband is inevitable by kheldan · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Municipal broadband is something that needs to happen sooner or later, preferably sooner, and ISPs know this, which is why they're fighting against it so hard right now. For good or for ill, Internet access has become a necessity, not a luxury, in the United States; try finding a job in 2016 without the Internet, or try having school-age, or even college-age kids, without Internet access; in both cases, you're at a severe disadvantage, and are likely to be left behind. The sooner the majority of voting-age U.S. citizens get together and demand of Congress that broadband become a public utility and made available to every American at a reasonable price (or free, ala-'Universal Lifeline' telephone service), the better for everyone. Probably the best way to implement it would be wirelessly.

    --
    Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
    1. Re:Municipal broadband is inevitable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      HA HA I TROL U XD XD XD (if you're going to accuse me of it I may as well have fun with it)

      You're getting moderated as troll because of your stupid fucking sig block, you idiot.

    2. Re:Municipal broadband is inevitable by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Municipal broadband is a red herring, but it is a convenient legal battleground to set precedents against any internet access not under the control of a major ISP. What we really want is a wireless mesh network where everyone acts as a repeater for everyone else, there are no points of control aside from international links, and where the network is never, ever trusted, unlike TCP/IP. This is the only way we're really going to get a free and open internet not subject to censorship or other forms of malfeasance.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    3. Re:Municipal broadband is inevitable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What we really want is a wireless mesh network where everyone acts as a repeater

      No, because wireless is inherently more limited than wired. What we really want is a wired public network that allows access to all comers and where every private network attached to it is an endpoint. So, basically, the existing internet, but with public backbones instead of private ones.

    4. Re:Municipal broadband is inevitable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're totally on crack, but then anyone who has read your comments in the past already knows that all too well. Your so-called 'mesh network' would end up like bitcoin: taken over and dominated by criminals, who push out anyone using it for legitimate purposes. Mostly it would end up being the 'CP Network' and the 'Movie Pirating Network', and anyone participating in it, legitimate use or not, would end up scrutinized by the FBI, if not outright arrested and all their electronics confiscated as evidence. The whole thing would last a couple years at best before being totally and completely shut down by law enforcement and regulated within an inch of it's life; it would be like the whole drone thing is now: maybe a good idea on the surface, but then the inconsiderate assholes and outright criminals ruin it for everyone else. So I think we'll skip your rediculous 'mesh network' idea.

    5. Re:Municipal broadband is inevitable by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      We don't want the Internet being a wireless mesh network.

      Wireless data transmission has much more stringent limits than wired data transmission. I can get 1 Gb/s connection from the phone company (although I'm not going to get it unless and until I find 40 Mb/s and then 100 Mb/s insufficient)). Getting a gigabit connection with reasonable ping time over a wireless mesh network is going to be challenging at best. If my internet connectivity goes down, I have someone to call now, rather needing to figure which of my neighbors has screwed what up. Moreover, I don't see why I have to trust the network if it's centralized and mostly wired. It's got central listening points, but in a wireless mesh a lot of the nodes are going to be law enforcement of various types recording what they can pick up. As it is, TCP doesn't trust the network, but rather verifies transmission and receipt.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  15. It's not just about slavery by tehlinux · · Score: 1

    State's rights are a good thing. If the electorate of those 19 states don't like it, it's their job to change it.

    --
    Most linux users don't know this, but the man pages were named after Chuck Norris. Chuck Norris fsck'ing hates noobs!
    1. Re:It's not just about slavery by Tablizer · · Score: 2

      If the electorate of those 19 states don't like it, it's their job to change it.

      The problem is the big ISP's pay a lot of money to bribe politicians to keep out competition. In many states, there's not enough granularity on their ballot to weed out specific bad practices. Politicians can focus on God, Gays, Guns, and Walls to distract voters from these kinds of issues, for example.

  16. Stop voting for people who allow this to continue. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    However you might feel about people like "The Donald" keep in mind that he has not been bought and paid for by the cable industry. http://www.fiercecable.com/cab... Or the banks http://www.salon.com/2016/05/0... Or even the Russians http://www.nytimes.com/interac... She is just one candidate that you could choose not to support, I'm not suggesting you vote for "The Donald" but at least you're not voting for a criminal. Additionally look at where the vast majority of political contributions flow to and from before you cast your next vote for your local city and state officials. Tired of the government fucking you over? Stop asking them to do so with your votes. And yes, on this site, I expect this comment to be removed completely or down modded into oblivion because diversity of thought is not allowed.

  17. Replublicans up in arms? by Macdude · · Score: 2

    The republicans must be up in arms over this ruling, not to mention these anti-free enterprise laws passed by democratic state legislatures. Right?

    --
    "Grab them by the pussy" -- President of the United States of America
    1. Re:Replublicans up in arms? by fishscene · · Score: 2

      Please stop the "Us vs. Them" mentality. Instead, try picking on individuals based on what they support. Ignore party, and you'll be much better off.

    2. Re:Replublicans up in arms? by MillionthMonkey · · Score: 1

      Republican FCC Commissioner Ajit Pai said that "âoerather than wasting its time on illegal efforts to intrude on the prerogatives of state governments, the FCC should focus on implementing a broadband deployment agenda to eliminate regulatory barriers that discourage those in the private sector from deploying and upgrading next-generation networks."

      USTelecom, the trade group that represents internet service providers including AT&T and Verizon Communications Inc, praised the decision as "a victory for the rule of law."

  18. In other words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Netizens of those states, bend over, apply ample lube and spread wide.

  19. The cities... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... are going to do it anyway. Jus' sayin'.

  20. Re:Government regulation preventing real competiti by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I guess when you worship an ideology, things like the details of your argument are unimportant (hint: this was the Federal government trying to let cities to do what they want).

  21. And the Democrats too? by Okian+Warrior · · Score: 1

    The republicans must be up in arms over this ruling, not to mention these anti-free enterprise laws passed by democratic state legislatures. Right?

    And those Democrats! Why - we've even got a Democratic president, for gosh's sake. What does he say?

    I'll bet if the Democrats and Republicans wanted to, they could pass a law that would have bipartisan support, and then the Democratic president could sign it into office.

    Hah hah hah! I'm kidding.

    Obama (the Democrat in charge) gave the telecoms immunity in return for campaign donations.

    There's no reason to believe that he wouldn't veto the bill in return for more campaign donations... to Hillary, for instance.

  22. Down with states by Ryanrule · · Score: 0

    Cities are becoming MUCH more important than the states they reside in. Time to give them extra representation.

  23. Internet as a Utility by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    To all you power users (most of us on Slashdot). If an ISP becomes a utility (municipal or not) it will be pay-for-what-you-use the same as water or electricity. Keep that in mind before you start jumping on the utility bandwagon. ;) Telecoms that offer blanket packages are in our best interest because we consume far more bandwidth than the average user. ISP as a utility would kill a lot of internet based companies & severely limit our use of the internet compared to current standards. In my opinion everyone should be against ISP as a utility concept.

    Honestly I'm surprised ISP's are against it. Perhaps they realize with lower use it would cease to become an important part of our lives and they would actually lose money in the long run? ISP as utility seems like it would kill the internet and leave access and hosting only to the major corporations... essentially becoming TV all over again. The divide between low income and high income families would become greater as low income families would not be able to afford access.

    So next time you hear about ISP as a utility please consider the implications of what that really means, pay-for-what-you-consume. A scary thought for most geeks.

  24. NO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    State are defined in the US Constitution, and everything else falls below that into a different category. Cursory history lessons prove you wrong. Nothing like progressive trolling I guess.

  25. Do the municipalities have standing to sue states? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Do the municipalities have standing to sue the states? I'd take it all the way to SCOTUS. IMHO, we have a right not to have our state government taken over by private corporations. That's probably too radical an idea for the men and women in black robes; but the way I see it that's what happened--the legislators of those states have utterly failed to protect the rights of their citizens. It's a civil rights violation the way I see it.

  26. The whole goddam system by fnj · · Score: 1

    If Congress doesn't make a stupid law, the President will arrogantly dictate the stupidity.
    If the Congress and the President don't do it, the Supreme Court will make up some bullshit.
    If the feds don't do it, the states will - corrupt legislatures, tyrannical governors, and crappy state supreme courts.
    If the states don't do it, the counties will.
    If the counties don't do it, the cities and towns will.

    The whole lot of them are a bunch of vile, corrupt pigs.

    1. Re:The whole goddam system by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If Congress doesn't make a stupid law, the President will arrogantly dictate the stupidity.
      If the Congress and the President don't do it, the Supreme Court will make up some bullshit.
      If the feds don't do it, the states will - corrupt legislatures, tyrannical governors, and crappy state supreme courts.
      If the states don't do it, the counties will.
      If the counties don't do it, the cities and towns will.

      The whole lot of them are a bunch of vile, corrupt pigs.

      What is your solution? Make you the vile, corrupt pig in charge?
      Replace "democratic(ish) government" with "corporate fiefdom"?

      It's fine to say things suck "101 unit's worth" of ways. But you are just a whiner unless you propose a system where only "100 unit's worth" things suck.

      Thing are not perfect. What is your proposal to make things better? Or are you just here to whine and complain?

  27. Re: Government regulation preventing real competit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You naive fool. This is all about getting more control into the hands of the government. You don't need a wiretap when you own the wire. You don't need censorship when mommies demand you block evil porn. Just sad that Bernies website showed up on the porn list accidentally.

    That's not hyperbole. That's business as usual in banana republics.

  28. Re:The proper solution by hackwrench · · Score: 1

    No, the proper solution is for all of us to take a break and have a sit-down and talk about what form of government we think we might really like to have and work through all the Hobbes/Hamilton brainwashing we're all being put through. To that end, I have created The Pirate-Ninja-Zombie Party Facebook group and I recommend all interested to join.

  29. Re:next states will race to have the lowest min wa by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They already do. Several cities have passed laws to increase their minimum wage only to have their states pass legislation forbidding any municipality to increase their minimum wage.

  30. Re:Stop voting for people who allow this to contin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    However you might feel about people like "The Donald" keep in mind that he has not been bought and paid for by the cable industry.

    The cable industry isn't dumb enough to buy and pay for a Donald. They've made fistfuls of cash for the past year just by giving him free airtime.

  31. Here we go again by Sir+Holo · · Score: 2

    So, here we go again.

    Just like with the establishment of telephone service lines.

    Just like with privately held public transit systems.

    Just like with privately owned bridges goin into and out of major cities, where monopolies were created.

    Just like with the railroads.

    Look at history. This will not be a short fight. But, internet service is a UTILITY.

  32. Re:The ISP battle is won and lost on the local lev by Beezlebub33 · · Score: 1

    Well, it looks (based on a scan of the ruling) that if the US Congress gave the FCC that power, then they would. However, the Congress has not done so, and so the FCC doesn't have it.

    --
    The more people I meet, the better I like my dog.
  33. Re:Government regulation preventing real competiti by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We'll wait for you to admit you were wrong. I suspect it may be a while.

  34. Should be simple enough by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I really just don't get it...
    Pass a municipal law mandating the use of a municipal ISP for local government.
    Setup/Create the ISP.... creating local jobs.
    Get a deal from the major ISP players for consolidated local traffic.

    ISP's can afford the cash to lobby a few key officials in Washington.
    But can they afford to lobby several local municipalities or states ?
    Lots more interested parties... Lots more cash needed for that.

    If enough localities start pressing, the ISPs will concede since the cost of numerous local lobbying will outweigh the cost of backing down.

    Am I wrong?