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FCC Loses Court Battle To Let Cities Build their Own Broadband (theverge.com)

Jacob Kastrenakes, writing for The Verge: The Federal Communications Commission's plan to let cities build their own broadband networks hit a major roadblock today, as a federal appellate court ruled that the commission was overstepping its authority. The United States Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit said today that the FCC is not able to, essentially, remove state laws that prevent the construction of municipal broadband networks, as it attempted to do in Wilson, North Carolina and Chattanooga, Tennessee last year. Both Wilson and Chattanooga had petitioned the FCC for permission to build out their own broadband networks -- a measure some cities are turning to in order to increase competition among internet providers, who often hold regional monopolies and more or less refuse to compete. State laws, however, prevented them from doing so; that's the case in 19 states in total, all of which could have been affected by future FCC orders had the court ruled in its favor.Ars Technica has more details.

95 of 160 comments (clear)

  1. While It Sucks... by sycodon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...that Providers enjoy a monopoly, they do so because the elected officials provided it.

    The proper solution is through electing officials that will revoke the monopolies, not allow the Federal Government to intrude in State Business because once you allow that, you are likely to see i in other things that you decidedly don't want.

    --
    When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    1. Re:While It Sucks... by cdrudge · · Score: 4, Insightful

      not allow the Federal Government to intrude in State Business

      Many of the arguments that apply with federal government meddling in state business also would apply to state governments meddling in local business...especially when companies fail to deliver adequate services.

    2. Re:While It Sucks... by Fire_Wraith · · Score: 4, Insightful

      ...that Providers enjoy a monopoly, they do so because the elected officials provided it.

      The proper solution is through electing officials that will revoke the monopolies, not allow the Federal Government to intrude in State Business because once you allow that, you are likely to see i in other things that you decidedly don't want.

      So why is it bad when the Federal Government tells a State what to do, but it's a-okay when the State tells a City what to do?

      You do realize that the Federal Government is perfectly authorized to regulate interstate commerce, right?

      By the way, it's also not so easy to simply elect officials based on a single issue, on any level except the local, unless you manage to make that issue a single hot-button, which really only occurs for a very few number of sparing things. Furthermore, it's not always simply the case of "enforced monopoly", because in many cases the amount of investment needed to wire a city in competition with an established provider is very large, and the expected rate of return just doesn't justify a second private company making it, so passing a community bond issue is really your only option short of praying to Google to come to your town.

    3. Re:While It Sucks... by tomhath · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Many of the arguments that apply with federal government meddling in state business also would apply to state governments meddling in local business

      The same arguments do apply, but it's irrelevant in this case.

      The FCC doesn't make laws, that's Congress' job. They were trying to override the state laws without the authority to do so.

    4. Re:While It Sucks... by sycodon · · Score: 4, Informative

      Well, first, the relationship between the states and tghe Federal government are not the same.

      Second, A state regulating business within it's own borders is not "interstate commerce". But don't count out some tool from trying to make that argument.

      Third, it's too bad change is hard. Seems to me, it was set up that way on purpose.

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    5. Re:While It Sucks... by the_Bionic_lemming · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes, and the government needs to push back like it did for 55 mph speed limits nationwide.

      Cut Federal Funding until the states comply with the directive.

      --
      _ _ _ Go for the eyes Boo! GO FOR THE EYES!
    6. Re:While It Sucks... by tippen · · Score: 1

      So why is it bad when the Federal Government tells a State what to do, but it's a-okay when the State tells a City what to do?

      Because of the 10th Amendment: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

      There's a pretty limited set of powers for the federal government enumerated in the Constitution. Probably 80% of what the Feds do isn't really allowed by the Constitution. They only get away with it because judges do their wink-wink bit and let things slide, frequently under some tortured interpretation of the commerce clause.

      While there is a common belief that local control is "A Good Thing(tm)", any protection cities would have from State government depends on laws from that state.

    7. Re:While It Sucks... by sycodon · · Score: 1

      Clarifying... the relationship between State Government and Cities is not the same as the relationship between the Federal Government and Cities.

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    8. Re:While It Sucks... by msauve · · Score: 4, Informative

      "So why is it bad when the Federal Government tells a State what to do, but it's a-okay when the State tells a City what to do?"

      Why is it bad, or why is it illegal? The federal Constitution reserves powers not granted to the feds for the states. Whether a state has power over a city is a matter of that state's Constitution. From a quick look at the NC Constitution, the state General Assembly seems to have the power to enact "general laws uniformly applicable throughout the State," which seems to give them authority to preempt local laws, so long as it's done uniformly.

      "the Federal Government is perfectly authorized to regulate interstate commerce, right?"

      Even accepting that the Internet is interstate commerce, the issue is how much of that authority has Congress given the FCC. The linked article specifically mentions that - "to overrule a state law ... the court said, requires an agency's power to be clearly stated in federal law."

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    9. Re:While It Sucks... by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      You don't mind if I apply that to things like slavery, child labor laws, desegregation, and pollution (which doesn't respect state lines) regulation, do you?

      When the local authorities fail to protect us, sometimes it is necessary to call in the cavalry. But we are then responsible for its oversight also.

      This is just another unfortunate incident of government serving the interests of its biggest "contributors", and a submissive public that won't take the issue into the voting booth.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    10. Re:While It Sucks... by Ichijo · · Score: 1

      in many cases the amount of investment needed to wire a city in competition with an established provider is very large, and the expected rate of return just doesn't justify a second private company making it, so passing a community bond issue is really your only option short of praying to Google to come to your town.

      Why can't you require the company that owns the wires to lease it at a fair rate to other ISPs?

      Better yet, prohibit the company that owns the wires from also being an ISP.

      --
      Any sufficiently unpopular but cohesive argument is indistinguishable from trolling.
    11. Re:While It Sucks... by fustakrakich · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The internet is hardly "within its own borders". The states can't regulate which trucking companies operate on the interstate highways either. Why should we let them regulate this? This is precisely one of those things we need the feds for.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    12. Re:While It Sucks... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Cut Federal Funding until the states comply with the directive.

      The Constitution places restrictions on what the federal government can do. It is an abuse of its taxing authority to use it to impose otherwise unconstitutional demands on the states. Municipal broadband has mostly worked well, and IMO should be allowed, but if you allow the federal bureaucrats to bend the states to their will on this, then the door is open to federal impositions on many other issues that you may not like so much.

      The bottom line, is that if we want better government, then we should vote for it.

    13. Re:While It Sucks... by neghvar1 · · Score: 1

      nominees for state and federal positions become pathological liars during campaign time. Once elected they follow the demands of their largest financial providers. By the time the next election comes around, the people have forgotten how much of a pathological liar the politician is and once again believe their lofty claims of utopia. Once elected, they get shit on all over again. So electing new politicians will not solve the problem.

    14. Re:While It Sucks... by the_Bionic_lemming · · Score: 1

      Worked damn well for the nationwide 55 .They did it before and they can do it again.

      --
      _ _ _ Go for the eyes Boo! GO FOR THE EYES!
    15. Re:While It Sucks... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      So why is it bad when the Federal Government tells a State what to do, but it's a-okay when the State tells a City what to do?

      It is not "a-okay", but is an issue to be resolved by the voters of that state, not by federal bureaucrats.

    16. Re:While It Sucks... by GLMDesigns · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You think the nationwide 55 was a good idea?

      You want to increase the power of Imperial Washington?

      The one clear check and balance on Imperial Washington are the states. If you're not happy about the Patriot Act, NSA over reaching then maybe, just maybe, you ought to be wary about other over reaches (even if the particular instance leads to a desired result).

      --
      If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
      Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
    17. Re:While It Sucks... by Compumyst · · Score: 1

      The bottom line, is that if we want better government, then we should vote for it.

      Yes, we should vote on it. But it seems that any politician that agrees with the mass's opinion on some topics, it is the opposite on other topics. So a politician that is willing to help fix things with oligopoly will probably screw things over elsewhere in society.

      ... but if you allow the federal bureaucrats to bend the states to their will on this, then the door is open to federal impositions on many other issues that you may not like so much.

      So, you're opposed to the federal government telling states to open up competition?

      --
      What's done's in the past, forever shall last.
      Work is work; life is life; fair is not!
    18. Re:While It Sucks... by the_Bionic_lemming · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No, 55 mph was a stupid idea.

      And them repeating the tactic isn't growing anything. An example of this has happened, and can happen again anytime.

      You are arguing "Black or White" , I am saying this is (not 50) "shades of grey" .

      There is a clear abuse going on between comcast and state government. I have absolutely no issue with the government stepping in with the retraction of federal funding to crush that.

      --
      _ _ _ Go for the eyes Boo! GO FOR THE EYES!
    19. Re:While It Sucks... by GLMDesigns · · Score: 1

      While I'm not on the side of government - this is to be handled by the states. And yes, the states can be just as foolishly run (or corrupt) as the federal government. I don't think the FCC ought to be involved with this.

      And, yes most things are shades of gray (like the way you phrased it :-) but this would be a horrible expansion of the federal role. (One that I think needs to be tremendously pared down.

      --
      If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
      Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
    20. Re:While It Sucks... by the_Bionic_lemming · · Score: 1

      I disagree that it's an expansion as I cited an example. So I agree to disagree.

      --
      _ _ _ Go for the eyes Boo! GO FOR THE EYES!
    21. Re:While It Sucks... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      ...that Providers enjoy a monopoly, they do so because the elected officials provided it.

      Not necessarily, and as a matter of actual legislative decision, those kinds of franchise agreements are now banned.

      By the United States Congress. Who did it over 2 decades ago. So stop blaming that.

      The proper solution is through electing officials that will revoke the monopolies, not allow the Federal Government to intrude in State Business because once you allow that, you are likely to see it in other things that you decidedly don't want.

      Except as mentioned above, there are no such monopolies granted by state or local authority, rather the problem here is banning local governments from engaging in a service to their public by the state governments.

      So your premise seems to be flawed. Not to mention how you seem to be operating under the assumption that Federal intervention is a bad thing, however that is not borne out by experience. State governments have been consistently negligent when it comes to securing rights, or downright oppressive, and the Federal practice of holding off has caused more harm by inaction than any demonstrated oppression by the Federal Government.

      Sorry, but that's just history for you. State sovereignty has not been a kind and beneficent force, but rather abuse and neglect. The libertarian mindset has not lead to more freedom, but strictly speaking, less, and more suffering. That's why it keeps getting rejected, as it fails to accomplish what it purports to do. Your religion is a sham, a false philosophy that deserves scorn.

      Even in this instance, you have neglected to identify a federal action that has caused a problem, while the state governments have been the ones who have engaged in the reprehensible conduct, namely forbidding their local institutions from taking action that their people want.

      Given how many state governments are demonstrably gerrymandered, perhaps the Feds need to intervene even more than they did with Reynolds v. Sims and Baker v. Carr.

      Of course, to do that, we'd need the Feds to exercise the will of the people, and they're unfortunately compromised as well. That's why they've been able to do nothing for the past few sessions, even trumpeting their victories as a vote to repeal the ACA dozens of times...uh-what? That's supposed to sound good? Are they that dumb, or are people dumb enough to believe it?

      You can find a lot of flaws in government, that's true, but your objections are based on shallow examinations, and instead of thorough consideration, you're just relying on principles you purport to believe in, without adding an element of comprehension and articulation.

    22. Re:While It Sucks... by knightghost · · Score: 1

      Corporations already own the states because states are too small to push back. Divide and Conquer.

    23. Re:While It Sucks... by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 1

      I agree with the FCC's position that cities should be able to install those services, and I also agree with the ruling that it is outside their authority.

      If any federal government authority could rule on such a matter, it should be the SEC, not the FCC. It is a matter of business practice, competition, and monopolies. It is not a matter of how communications are performed or restricted. The FCC's authority should apply equally to any provider of such services and be blind to who is providing them.

    24. Re:While It Sucks... by pete6677 · · Score: 1

      You are entirely missing the point here. Speed limits are not something that need to be set at the federal level.

    25. Re:While It Sucks... by radarskiy · · Score: 1

      The federal constitution reserves powers not granted to the PEOPLE. Powers specifically granted go to either the states or the federal government, but that does not mean that the states get anything not granted.

    26. Re:While It Sucks... by msauve · · Score: 1

      Reading comprehension fail - "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." - 10th Amendment

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    27. Re:While It Sucks... by swillden · · Score: 2

      The FCC doesn't make laws, that's Congress' job. They were trying to override the state laws without the authority to do so.

      But does Congress have the authority?

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    28. Re:While It Sucks... by swillden · · Score: 1

      So why is it bad when the Federal Government tells a State what to do, but it's a-okay when the State tells a City what to do?

      Did you skip your civics class in high school?

      States are sovereign governments, which (ignoring some bits I'm going to get to in a moment) give them unlimited power within their borders to do what they like, and the cities within them are completely subject to their will. The states entered into an agreement with the federal government when they joined the union (or when they ratified the constitution), which explicitly gives the federal government specific, limited powers over the states. Within the scope of those enumerated powers, federal law overrules any state law, up to and including state constitutions. Outside of those enumerated powers (which were greatly broadened by the 14th amendment), the federal government has no authority to tell the state what to do.

      So, to directly answer your question: It's bad when the federal government tells a state to do something it doesn't have the authority to tell it to do. There is no such limit on the authority of states over cities (unless it's written into state law... which actually does happen in some cases).

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    29. Re:While It Sucks... by ProzacPatient · · Score: 2

      Actually states and their relationship with the federal government are defined in US constitution. Local governments however are political subdivisions of each individual state and it is up to each state and that state's constitution as to how much autonomy local political subdivisions should have.

      So in short basically local governments, in most if not all cases, exist to keep the peace and handle more mundane matters on behalf of the state's legislature which created those local governments but a lot of people seem to forget that and think local governments somehow have some sort of inherent sovereignty.

    30. Re: While It Sucks... by GoodNewsJimDotCom · · Score: 1

      Oh that's simple, all we need to do is not get corrupt officials in. What do you propose the solution be? Right now bribery of politicians is legal with campaign contributions, but making that illegal won't be a complete fix.

    31. Re:While It Sucks... by Snufu · · Score: 1

      if you allow the state bureaucrats to bend the municipalities to their will on this, then the door is open to state impositions on many other issues that you may not like so much.

    32. Re:While It Sucks... by Snufu · · Score: 1

      The one clear check and balance on Imperial Washington are the states.

      Then what is the check on state's imposing their will on municipalities?

    33. Re:While It Sucks... by fnj · · Score: 3, Informative

      The federal constitution reserves powers not granted to the PEOPLE. Powers specifically granted go to either the states or the federal government, but that does not mean that the states get anything not granted.

      You couldn't be more wrong. The US Constitution:
      1) Guarantees certain defined rights to all the people in every state.
      2) Grants certain defined powers to the Federal Government.

      All other power, without further limit, devolves to the individual states. Each of them is sovereign, and can write anything into its own constitution, subject only to the above two specific limitations.

    34. Re:While It Sucks... by uncqual · · Score: 1

      Should that happen, the voters of the state can change their state's constitution to limit the control the state has -- or, just vote in state level politicians that will eliminate laws that the state's voters find undesirable.

      Just as we could amend the United States Constitution to grant Congress the ability to enact laws that implement Social Security or Medicare or to ban people from taking medications that improve their health or save their life. Perhaps some day we will do so.

      Remember the quaint old days when a Constitutional Amendment was thought necessary to ban manufacturing, sale, importation, and transportation of alcoholic beverages? Now the FDA could just probably just declare it a controlled substance and ban not only its manufacturing, sale, importation, and transportation but it's possession and use as well.

      --
      Why is there an "insightful" mod and why isn't it "-1"? If I wanted insight, I wouldn't be reading /.
    35. Re:While It Sucks... by fnj · · Score: 2, Informative

      You're the one who is completely full of unsupported bullshit. EVERY car gets better fuel efficiency at 55 than the same car at 80. The force or thrust required to overcome rolling friction is constant with speed, and the force or thrust required to overcome air resistance rises proportionally to the SQUARE of the speed. That means that the POWER (P=f times v) to overcome rolling friction rises proportionally to the speed, and the power required to overcome air resistance rises proportionally to the CUBE of the speed. Finally, the energy required to move a given DISTANCE (E = P times t) varies in exactly the same ratio as the first relationship.

    36. Re:While It Sucks... by BradMajors · · Score: 1

      What do you have against Canada and why are you calling it a "bad regime"?

    37. Re:While It Sucks... by sycodon · · Score: 1

      That's precisely the fucking Bullshit thinking that has the Fed regulating every aspect of our lives.

      The fucking air I breath comes from across state lines so the Feds can regulate how I breath?

      Fuck you, asshole,.

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    38. Re:While It Sucks... by sycodon · · Score: 1

      Why can't they require you to make your house available to some homeless dude twice a month?

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    39. Re:While It Sucks... by sycodon · · Score: 1

      So...two decades ago they were banned. Yet, they still exist. So, ya, you can blame the monopoly agreements.

      The rest of your prattle is just bullshit that argues there is no reason for state to exist at all.

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    40. Re: While It Sucks... by sycodon · · Score: 1

      So lets just go around the system and fuck shit up directly...subject to whoever is in power are whatever level of Federal government if fucking shit up.

      Do you fucking morons even listen to what you say??

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    41. Re:While It Sucks... by MillionthMonkey · · Score: 1

      The fucking air I breath comes from across state lines so the Feds can regulate how I breath? Fuck you asshole.

      WTF?

      The Feds can regulate what people in other states can force you to breathe, yeah. If a factory in one state emits pollutants that flow downwind and cause health problems for people in an adjacent state, the Feds are the only ones who can do anything about it. I didn't realize that could be hard for anyone to understand.

      (Also, why does it seem so hard for some people to understand that "breath" is a noun and "breathe" is a verb?)

    42. Re:While It Sucks... by mishehu · · Score: 1

      You can sit and try to deduce things mathematically with an ideal and simplistic system. But that's theory, not practice. I have gigabytes of telemetry that I've collected that say otherwise.

    43. Re:While It Sucks... by MillionthMonkey · · Score: 1

      Probably 80% of what the Feds do isn't really allowed by the Constitution. They only get away with it because judges do their wink-wink bit and let things slide

      ...and because the Constitution itself dictates that the judiciary system is the sole body responsible for interpretation of the document.

    44. Re:While It Sucks... by GLMDesigns · · Score: 2

      There isn't. But the concept is that an informed citizenry (as opposed to subjects who are ruled) have a greater ability to change the structure of a state government then they do the federal. Is this a cure-all. No. Of course no.

      --
      If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
      Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
    45. Re:While It Sucks... by uncqual · · Score: 1

      The 18th Amendment was legal authority -- just as much if the Postal Clause had originally been omitted from Article I Section 8 and a later Amendment gave Congress the power "To establish Post Offices and post Roads". Just because a portion of the Constitution (which includes all the ratified Amendments) is "political" doesn't preclude it from being legal authority. Virtually every phrase in the Constitution can be viewed as "political policy".

      --
      Why is there an "insightful" mod and why isn't it "-1"? If I wanted insight, I wouldn't be reading /.
    46. Re:While It Sucks... by hackwrench · · Score: 1

      The Constitutional limitations on federal power have never been anything more than a ruse to lull detractors of unlimited government power into a false sense of security. Look into Hobbes and Hamiltonian beliefs and you might be able to detect the real agenda, but it has been an unending shell game since at least The Federalist Papers.
      We all need to have a sit-down and talk about what form of government we all want to have. To that end, I have created The Pirate-Ninja-Zombie Party Facebook group.

    47. Re:While It Sucks... by hackwrench · · Score: 1

      Thw Hobbes Hamiltonians have us all mixed up such that we can in one moment be saying we are not for government and the next supporting the very government that has kept us all in chains since the inception of the Constitution. Yes just like everything else, the Hobbes Hamiltonians are not a monolithic group and some are seen as useful idiots by the others.
      No this is not to be handles by the states. This is my position, but not even the states should have been given the amount of power they have. It all goes to the not on the side of government delusion we have been given. When they can't get you at the Federal level, they find a way to stick it to you at the State.
      We all need to take a break and sit down and talk about the form of government we really want and to that end, I have created The Pirate-Ninja-Zombie Party Facebook group.

    48. Re:While It Sucks... by hackwrench · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but the trick is that the Hobbes/Hamiltonians don't believe there can ever be a well-informed citizenry and do their best to undermine informing the people when it comes to matters of government and morality. Ever wonder why they don't teach how to develop your own sense of morality from even the well-established building blocks having to do with morals? Hobbesian philosophy states that the only thing the common man needs to know about morality is that absolute devotion to the state is a must and the major thrust of Hamiltonian work is tricking the common man and the less-common but still not ruling class material man into accepting a state of affairs where some dictate of the state is obeyed be it at the Federal, State, or City level. Police should only give orders when there is real harm about to be done.

    49. Re:While It Sucks... by tsotha · · Score: 2

      That's all true, but aren't you neglecting the other half of the equation? Engines are more efficient at certain RPMs, and how fast you're going at the engine's most efficient RPM is a function of gearing.

    50. Re:While It Sucks... by dryeo · · Score: 2

      How many States routinely change their government? How often does a new party get into power in a State? From what I know about America, the States are ruled by the same party as the Federal government, a party that presents 2 faces, that disagree on minor issues but on the big issues, they agree, and they hardly ever listen to their subjects on the big issues.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    51. Re: While It Sucks... by MidnightBrewer · · Score: 1

      Imposing taxes would be illegal, but cutting state welfare would not. The government did the same thing to bring all the state drinking ages into line, too. "You can set your age to whatever you want, but you'll have to forgo this huge blank check for infrastructural improvements."

      --
      "Give a man fire, and he'll be warm for a day; set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life
    52. Re: While It Sucks... by MidnightBrewer · · Score: 2

      Don't say "imperial Washington". It's factually incorrect and just undermines the legitimacy of your opinions.

      --
      "Give a man fire, and he'll be warm for a day; set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life
    53. Re:While It Sucks... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      Yes, if you ever want to stop importing foreign oil and funding bad regimes around the world, we will need to drive 55mph.

      I have an electric car and solar panels on my roof to recharge it. So why should I drive 55mph?

    54. Re:While It Sucks... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      that disagree on minor issues but on the big issues, they agree

      They disagree on THIS ISSUE. Democrats generally support municipal broadband, and Republicans generally support the right of states to ban it. Even the FCC voted along party lines.

    55. Re:While It Sucks... by strikethree · · Score: 2

      While your argument is sound, my experience says that there must be more to it than that.

      I had a 99 Saturn SL1. At 65mph it averaged, roughly 34mpg. At 80mph, it averaged roughly 38mpg. These numbers are from memory but they are roughly correct. It surprised me greatly to discover these numbers.

      How can this be? I am unsure. Possibly something to do with gearing and RPMs. Weird, but empirical data outweighs theory every time.

      --
      "Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
    56. Re:While It Sucks... by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      The states can't regulate which trucking companies operate on the interstate highways either.

      The states definitely can regulate the trucking companies that are located within the state. This includes matters such as licensing the drivers and requiring insurance - and not allowing drivers without a license or insurance to drive on the roads, including interstate highways.

    57. Re:While It Sucks... by dcw3 · · Score: 1

      I'm generally as fan of states rights. However, the FCC was given this charter by federal law, which trumps state law...
      The Federal Communications Commission regulates interstate and international communications by radio, television, wire, satellite and cable in all 50 states, the District of Columbia and U.S. territories.

      In this case, I'd argue that we don't want 50+ different sets of rules for the internet. And, allowing individual ISPs to have singular control of an area is anti-competitive, monopolistic behavior. Competition improves service...monopolies don't.

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    58. Re:While It Sucks... by dcw3 · · Score: 1

      Wrong. Try reading Title 47 of the US Code. The FCC was already given this authority by Congress.

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    59. Re:While It Sucks... by Karlt1 · · Score: 1

      Yeah because we can always trust states to do the right thing without the federal government interfering especially in the Deep South.....

    60. Re: While It Sucks... by GLMDesigns · · Score: 1

      Well. Power is centralizing at an enormous rate. (Plus add the collection of data and the increasing nannyism - not only by people in power but by voters,)

      It isn't Imperial Washington in 2016 but what about 2036?

      --
      If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
      Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
    61. Re:While It Sucks... by Beezlebub33 · · Score: 1

      That's precisely the fucking Bullshit thinking that has the Fed regulating every aspect of our lives.

      The fucking air I breath comes from across state lines so the Feds can regulate how I breath?

      No, but the Feds can regulate how much pollution a company can produce because it crosses state lines.

      --
      The more people I meet, the better I like my dog.
    62. Re:While It Sucks... by the_Bionic_lemming · · Score: 1

      History, Ask your grade school teacher about the 1970's.

      And don't stay up after bedtime. You have school tomorrow...

      --
      _ _ _ Go for the eyes Boo! GO FOR THE EYES!
    63. Re:While It Sucks... by dywolf · · Score: 1

      The hell it aint

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    64. Re:While It Sucks... by GLMDesigns · · Score: 1

      No. Not accurate at all. States do change and it historically has not been tied to how they voted in federal elections. (That's been changing rapidly over the last decade.)

      Secondly neither party is monolithic. The Republican party is split between "establishment" which is for crony capitalism; libertarian / tea party which is greatly opposed to this and social conservatives who tend strongly to main street (as opposed to wall street) but for whom social issues is their primary concern.

      Main Street is a catch-all phrase that refers to small farmers, mom-and-pop stores, small and mid size businesses (as opposed to multinational, publicly traded conglomerates ).

      --
      If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
      Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
    65. Re:While It Sucks... by GLMDesigns · · Score: 1

      Wish I could mod you up.

      --
      If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
      Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
    66. Re:While It Sucks... by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 1

      RTFA.. That was not the issue here. The issue was over ruling state law, which the FCC could do if it were explicitly stated in federal law:

      "..the commission is not explicitly granted permission to overrule the states like this. And while government agencies are generally given deference to interpret their own powers where a law has left them unclear, the court determined that isn't the case in this situation. That's because it would be going so far as to overrule a state law, and that, the court said, requires an agency's power to be clearly stated in federal law." http://www.theverge.com/2016/8...

    67. Re:While It Sucks... by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      Fuck you, asshole,.

      :-) Cute, but that doesn't address the issue of making me breath your effluence. Or maybe you're suggesting I move upwind? Hard to tell what people are saying these days.

      And be more careful with your punctuation. Every unnecessary bit requires more storage and only contaminates the air even more. In fact, under the circumstances, powering down your computer completely, and maybe donating it to a needy kid would be of great benefit to us all.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    68. Re:While It Sucks... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Practically speaking, state governments seem to screw up more than the federal government. There seem to be a greater variety of idiots on the national level who cancel each other out better.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    69. Re:While It Sucks... by azcodemonkey · · Score: 1

      How is municipal broadband interstate commerce?

    70. Re:While It Sucks... by farble1670 · · Score: 1

      The proper solution is through electing officials that will revoke the monopolies, not allow the Federal Government to intrude in State Business

      The fact that there's a law on books that PREVENTS local governments from deploying broadband is corruption most foul that should be stopped in whatever way possible. If that means fighting fire with fire so be it.

      once you allow that, you are likely to see i in other things that you decidedly don't want.

      Ah the slippery slope argument never fails to amuse. Not me, and not most everyone else. If anything, we use previous experience to make more informed, better subsequent decisions. So yeah, if the FCC proves it can fight for consumers' rights and the technological progress of our nation, I'm on that slippery slope.

    71. Re:While It Sucks... by farble1670 · · Score: 1

      Mine hits it around 45 MPH.

    72. Re:While It Sucks... by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      The FCC doesn't make laws, that's Congress' job.

      Congress made a law that the FCC can make regulations with force of law. Perfectly legal. If you don't like it, speak to your senator or representative.

  2. Good thing the West is free from 6th circuit by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

    7th circuit, baby!

    Give us that high high speed!

    I feel the need, the need to slurp up Gigabit plus speeds!

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  3. Re:Government regulation preventing real competiti by aardvarkjoe · · Score: 3, Insightful

    when the federal government stands in the way of even local governments being able to do what they want in their own cities.

    State government, not federal.

    --

    How can we continue to believe in a just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
  4. Sarcasm? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    How funny that in a recent thread someone was trying to claim it was a fantasy that government regulation had no effect on ISP choice, when the federal government stands in the way of even local governments being able to do what they want in their own cities.

    State laws, however, prevented them from doing so; ...

    Are you being sarcastic? It's the Federal government that is trying to create more competition but STATE governments are stopping it.

  5. Re:Capitalism is good... by halivar · · Score: 2, Informative

    When the state chooses the winners, it's not capitalism anymore.

  6. States rights for the win! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    If we don't stand up to big government to protect the interests of innovaters like Comcst and AT&T, who will?

  7. Re:Government regulation preventing real competiti by Sir_Eptishous · · Score: 1

    How funny that in a recent thread someone was trying to claim it was a fantasy that government regulation had no effect on ISP choice, when the federal government stands in the way of even local governments being able to do what they want in their own cities.

    Keep hittin the glass pipe Ken!

    --
    We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
  8. Re:Capitalism is good... by Fire_Wraith · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The State is already choosing the winner though - to protect the incumbent monopolist (Comcast/AT&T/etc as varies by which region). We're also not talking about a lean efficient private company being defended from a government competitor that runs at a loss thanks to tax money, but rather, a bloated monopoly incumbent providing poor service at usurious rates to the point that the citizens of those cities are so fed up that they're ready to vote for anything that might be better.

    And in the case of Chattanooga, they already know it is, because EPB (the power company there) has been providing Gigabit internet for years. It's the people just outside Chattanooga that want to get in on that, but thanks to Tennessee state law (and Georgia on the other side of the city) passed at the explicit behest of Comcast/etc, they can't get it.

    This is what they want to sell you as "capitalism" - a natural monopoly, reinforced by the State by preventing competition of any sort.

  9. Municipal broadband is inevitable by kheldan · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Municipal broadband is something that needs to happen sooner or later, preferably sooner, and ISPs know this, which is why they're fighting against it so hard right now. For good or for ill, Internet access has become a necessity, not a luxury, in the United States; try finding a job in 2016 without the Internet, or try having school-age, or even college-age kids, without Internet access; in both cases, you're at a severe disadvantage, and are likely to be left behind. The sooner the majority of voting-age U.S. citizens get together and demand of Congress that broadband become a public utility and made available to every American at a reasonable price (or free, ala-'Universal Lifeline' telephone service), the better for everyone. Probably the best way to implement it would be wirelessly.

    --
    Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
    1. Re:Municipal broadband is inevitable by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Municipal broadband is a red herring, but it is a convenient legal battleground to set precedents against any internet access not under the control of a major ISP. What we really want is a wireless mesh network where everyone acts as a repeater for everyone else, there are no points of control aside from international links, and where the network is never, ever trusted, unlike TCP/IP. This is the only way we're really going to get a free and open internet not subject to censorship or other forms of malfeasance.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:Municipal broadband is inevitable by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      We don't want the Internet being a wireless mesh network.

      Wireless data transmission has much more stringent limits than wired data transmission. I can get 1 Gb/s connection from the phone company (although I'm not going to get it unless and until I find 40 Mb/s and then 100 Mb/s insufficient)). Getting a gigabit connection with reasonable ping time over a wireless mesh network is going to be challenging at best. If my internet connectivity goes down, I have someone to call now, rather needing to figure which of my neighbors has screwed what up. Moreover, I don't see why I have to trust the network if it's centralized and mostly wired. It's got central listening points, but in a wireless mesh a lot of the nodes are going to be law enforcement of various types recording what they can pick up. As it is, TCP doesn't trust the network, but rather verifies transmission and receipt.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  10. It's not just about slavery by tehlinux · · Score: 1

    State's rights are a good thing. If the electorate of those 19 states don't like it, it's their job to change it.

    --
    Most linux users don't know this, but the man pages were named after Chuck Norris. Chuck Norris fsck'ing hates noobs!
    1. Re:It's not just about slavery by Tablizer · · Score: 2

      If the electorate of those 19 states don't like it, it's their job to change it.

      The problem is the big ISP's pay a lot of money to bribe politicians to keep out competition. In many states, there's not enough granularity on their ballot to weed out specific bad practices. Politicians can focus on God, Gays, Guns, and Walls to distract voters from these kinds of issues, for example.

  11. Replublicans up in arms? by Macdude · · Score: 2

    The republicans must be up in arms over this ruling, not to mention these anti-free enterprise laws passed by democratic state legislatures. Right?

    --
    "Grab them by the pussy" -- President of the United States of America
    1. Re:Replublicans up in arms? by fishscene · · Score: 2

      Please stop the "Us vs. Them" mentality. Instead, try picking on individuals based on what they support. Ignore party, and you'll be much better off.

    2. Re:Replublicans up in arms? by MillionthMonkey · · Score: 1

      Republican FCC Commissioner Ajit Pai said that "âoerather than wasting its time on illegal efforts to intrude on the prerogatives of state governments, the FCC should focus on implementing a broadband deployment agenda to eliminate regulatory barriers that discourage those in the private sector from deploying and upgrading next-generation networks."

      USTelecom, the trade group that represents internet service providers including AT&T and Verizon Communications Inc, praised the decision as "a victory for the rule of law."

  12. Re:Vote 'em out. by thomasw_lrd · · Score: 1

    That's what I've been saying for years.

    Yes major corporations have more money to buy politicians, but at the end of the day, they can't physically vote. Only people can. I'm sure when the people start firing representatives every time they come up for election. Either the politicians or the companies will see it as a losing game at some point.

    Of course then the companies will just attempt to buy the peoples votes instead.....

  13. And the Democrats too? by Okian+Warrior · · Score: 1

    The republicans must be up in arms over this ruling, not to mention these anti-free enterprise laws passed by democratic state legislatures. Right?

    And those Democrats! Why - we've even got a Democratic president, for gosh's sake. What does he say?

    I'll bet if the Democrats and Republicans wanted to, they could pass a law that would have bipartisan support, and then the Democratic president could sign it into office.

    Hah hah hah! I'm kidding.

    Obama (the Democrat in charge) gave the telecoms immunity in return for campaign donations.

    There's no reason to believe that he wouldn't veto the bill in return for more campaign donations... to Hillary, for instance.

  14. The whole goddam system by fnj · · Score: 1

    If Congress doesn't make a stupid law, the President will arrogantly dictate the stupidity.
    If the Congress and the President don't do it, the Supreme Court will make up some bullshit.
    If the feds don't do it, the states will - corrupt legislatures, tyrannical governors, and crappy state supreme courts.
    If the states don't do it, the counties will.
    If the counties don't do it, the cities and towns will.

    The whole lot of them are a bunch of vile, corrupt pigs.

  15. Re:Capitalism is good... by fnj · · Score: 1

    Hah, hah, hah. Capitalism is ALL ABOUT privilege, arrogance, bribery, and corruption - gee golly, same situation as Communism ends up, isn't it? Because it's all about HUMAN FAILINGS. As long as humans are in charge, you're shit out of luck.

    I think you meant free enterprise. True free enterprise is about as rare as true communism.

  16. Re:The proper solution by hackwrench · · Score: 1

    No, the proper solution is for all of us to take a break and have a sit-down and talk about what form of government we think we might really like to have and work through all the Hobbes/Hamilton brainwashing we're all being put through. To that end, I have created The Pirate-Ninja-Zombie Party Facebook group and I recommend all interested to join.

  17. Here we go again by Sir+Holo · · Score: 2

    So, here we go again.

    Just like with the establishment of telephone service lines.

    Just like with privately held public transit systems.

    Just like with privately owned bridges goin into and out of major cities, where monopolies were created.

    Just like with the railroads.

    Look at history. This will not be a short fight. But, internet service is a UTILITY.

  18. Re:The ISP battle is won and lost on the local lev by Beezlebub33 · · Score: 1

    Well, it looks (based on a scan of the ruling) that if the US Congress gave the FCC that power, then they would. However, the Congress has not done so, and so the FCC doesn't have it.

    --
    The more people I meet, the better I like my dog.