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Massachusetts Will Tax Ride-Sharing Companies To Subsidize Taxis (reuters.com)

Massachusetts will tax ride-sharing services -- 20 cents for each ride -- with 25% of the money raised going into a special fund for the taxi industry (according to an article shared by schwit1 ). Reuters reports: Ride services are not enthusiastic about the fee. "I don't think we should be in the business of subsidizing potential competitors," said Kirill Evdakov, the chief executive of Fasten, a ride service that launched in Boston last year and also operates in Austin, Texas. Some taxi owners wanted the law to go further, perhaps banning the start-up competitors unless they meet the requirements taxis do, such as regular vehicle inspection by the police...

The fee may raise millions of dollars a year because Lyft and Uber alone have a combined 2.5 million rides per month in Massachusetts... The 5-cent fee will be collected through the end of 2021. Then the taxi subsidy will disappear and the 20 cents will be split by localities and the state for five years. The whole fee will go away at the end of 2026.

Republican Governor Charlie Baker signed the law, which specifically bans ride-sharing services from passing those costs on to their drivers or riders. And the article notes that Taiwan has also hit Uber with a $6.4 million tax bill, while Seattle has passed a new law allowing ride-sharing drivers to unionize.

29 of 445 comments (clear)

  1. What is it that you say? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You're not a taxi service but taxis are potential competitors. Are the like of Uber and Lyft starting to drop the veneer that they don't occupy the same service space as taxi companies? Or are they going to continue with the double speak?

    1. Re:What is it that you say? by tlambert · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You're not a taxi service but taxis are potential competitors. Are the like of Uber and Lyft starting to drop the veneer that they don't occupy the same service space as taxi companies?

      I imagine they are saying that if a taxi see someone standing there waiting for an Uber, they might try to "vulch" the customer, and steal it from the Uber driver already en route.

      While it is currently illegal for Uber drivers to do the same to taxis, since they would then have to be fully compliant with taxi regulations.

      For example, it's also illegal for Town Car operators to pick up people at the San Francisco Airport who are waiting for transport, unless they specifically called the Town Car company, even though both the people and the Town Car are there, the Town Car's fare's flight got delayed or cancelled, and there are not Taxis in sight.

      So yes: Taxi's potentially compete with Uber (and Town Cars), but Uber (and Town Cars) does not compete with ad hoc taxi service.

    2. Re:What is it that you say? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This just means that Taxi services aren't providing the service that customers want. The solution is for Taxi companies to adapt or to push for any legal changes regarding their operations that will allow them to compete.

      Taxing one private company for another's direct subsidy is just un-American.

    3. Re:What is it that you say? by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 1, Insightful

      But forcing businesses to follow regulations for an industry is the job of government. Moron.

    4. Re:What is it that you say? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You don't need a million dollar medallion to land at Laguardia, or to drive a bus down 5th Avenue.

      Stop trying to make Uber comply with insane taxi regulations and instead lift the insane regulations on taxis.

    5. Re:What is it that you say? by Nemyst · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Have you actually used Uber and taxi services? Uber's quality of service, reliability and ease of use is making pretty much all taxi operators ridiculously embarrassed, and that's on top of being cheaper to boot.

    6. Re:What is it that you say? by TheCarp · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Are the polititions going to drop the veneer of giving a shit about the public when they support the very cab companies that have done jack shit for consumers right here in boston for decades?

      Everyone I know who doesn't drive, and many who do, uses these services on a regular basis, choosing them over cabs. Anyone who has taken a cab knows why.

      Where was the precious regulation for YEARS when cabs were "required" to take credit cards, but regularly just drove around telling people the machine was broken. The local news was doing investigative reports about how bad the cabs were before Uber got here.

      Now all of a sudden the poor cabbies who squandered their government granted monopoly for decades are crying foul and the politicians are happy to turn a blind eye to decades of disservice for a buck.

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    7. Re:What is it that you say? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Have you actually used Uber and taxi services?

      Yes I have.

      Uber's quality of service,

      Has been no better than any Cab I've ever been in. If fact I liked the uber that showed up once with the drivers side mirror duct tapped on.

      reliability

      I constantly get there are no Cars available messages when ever I try to use Uber. With a taxi, I can prearrange specific pickup times and the every time I have done this, they show up 10 minutes early. I can't rely on Uber to get me to the airport on time, I can with a Taxi.

       

      and ease of use is making pretty much all taxi operators ridiculously embarrassed, and that's on top of being cheaper to boot.

      I have never gotten in a Uber where it was cheaper than a Taxi since there only do surge pricing 100% of the time.

    8. Re:What is it that you say? by Luthair · · Score: 4, Insightful

      How is their business model failing? Uber & Lyft use the identical model but using an app, you sound like a lawyer from the 90s who thinks that adding "with a computer" to any everyday operation made it novel and worthy of a patent.

    9. Re:What is it that you say? by jellomizer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The government's job isn't to be heavy handed. It is to insure that we are all playing by the same sets of rules.

      But this case isn't giving Uber Driver regulations, but just taking them to support the competitors who have a bunch of regulations.

      Now as I see it, the Government should be doing either the following.
      Lessening the regulations on Taxi Companies so they can be more competitive.
      Or
      Giving Ride Sharing services regulations to insure safety and standards are met to match the Taxi Services.

       

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    10. Re: What is it that you say? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Rather, at some point citizens wanted taxi services to be well regulated, but they can longer afford the cost of regulation given competition that isn't held to the same standard.

    11. Re:What is it that you say? by MitchDev · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So it's illegal for me to give me co-worker a ride to work without paying this onerous tax?

      So it's illegal to give a friend a ride somewhere without paying this onerous tax?

      So it's illegal to give wome you just met a ride without paying this onerous tax?

      No, enough. Amazing once people once did (Boston Teaparty anyone?) over onerous taxes, yet now they just accept them like little sheep.

  2. Subsidizing Businesses.... by iCEBaLM · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is like taxing car owners to subsidize stage coaches.

    1. Re:Subsidizing Businesses.... by TFlan91 · · Score: 1, Insightful

      > This is like taxing car owners to subsidize stage coaches.

      What? How?

      A more accurate simile would be,

      This is like taxing coal to subsidize wind.

    2. Re:Subsidizing Businesses.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This is like taxing car owners to subsidize stage coaches.

      Hardly. The Uber and Lyft people in typical Silly Valley marketing hype are saying their services are a new and innovative way for personal transportation and it's going to revolutionize how people live and travel!

      In reality, it's just a cheap way to get around regulations, pay their workers less and pocket the difference so one day, they can IPO their companies and make BILLIONS off of stupid people who fall for the BS that Uber and Lyft are tech companies.

      With their reasoning, I can open up a bakery, have an app that allows you to order custom cakes (like you can't do that over a standard phone) and bingo! It's a tech company!!

      I'm a billionaire! And I'll be called an innovating GENIUS!

    3. Re:Subsidizing Businesses.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If you'd paid upwards of $500K for a taxi medallion in a big city, you'd probably thrash like mad too. Just because Uber is appy app is not an excuse to violate the law. The reason taxis are tightly regulated make sense: You want a fair meter that charges you fairly for your trip. You want a vehicle that is safe. You want the driver to not rob or rape you. There's plenty of argument to be made that a medallion shouldn't cost so damn much and shouldn't be so scarce, but I don't think Uber et al are the solution. I frankly find the selling of false hope to the people that sacrifice their time and their cars to the service to be abhorrent. And they're dropping their fees yet again. Drivers can barely keep their vehicles fueled and maintained while make a petty income. Keep dropping the fees and they'll lose their network of shittily paid volunteers.

    4. Re: Subsidizing Businesses.... by SeriousTube · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Uber is strongly interested in self driving cars. Uber drivers may be done for but the company isn't.

    5. Re:Subsidizing Businesses.... by Cederic · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No, you messed up.

      Your bakery needs to ignore food hygiene laws, force your bakers to provide their own ovens and refuse to pay minimum wage.

      Then you'll be an innovating GENIUS!

    6. Re:Subsidizing Businesses.... by ranton · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So -- You favor throwing all of us who run only free software on open computer hardware into some sort of digital ghetto?

      I don't think anyone is favoring it, but I certainly don't want progress stopped by even the tiniest degree to accommodate those who self-impose such restrictions on themselves. I'm also not concerned at all with how the Amish will be affected by technological progress if that helps put things in perspective.

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      -- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
    7. Re:Subsidizing Businesses.... by PeeAitchPee · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Go ahead and keep defending pathological douchebags like this guy. Medallion owners are speculative parasites and their chickens are coming home to roost, and they sooooo deserve it. Seriously, fuck them . . . couldn't happen to a more antisocial, greedier bunch of dicks.

  3. And if you believe that... by SeattleLawGuy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    > The whole fee will go away at the end of 2026.

    If you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you.

    --
    Real lawyers write in C++
    1. Re:And if you believe that... by Wycliffe · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Instead, the tolls are one way: you pay them, if you are a nasty, low income person coming from Emeryville into San Francisco, but not if you are a wonderful, high income person going from San Francisco to Emeryville.

      The tolls are one-way because they know that 99.99% of people travel back to where they came from so instead of making people stop twice to pay the toll, it's more convenient for *everyone* to just collect it once.

  4. Uber is not "ride sharing" by dave420 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Uber is simply not engaged in "ride sharing". Ride sharing is when a driver is going to make a journey, and takes one or more people with them, in return for covering their costs on the way. No money is made, and the journey happens regardless of the extra people along for the ride.

  5. Re:Banning passing the costs? by cdrudge · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Here's the relevant section of the law:

    (b) Annually, not later than February 1, each transportation network company shall submit to the director of the division established in section 23 of chapter 25 the number of rides from the previous calendar year that originated within each city or town and a per-ride assessment of $0.20. A transportation network company shall not charge a transportation network rider or a transportation network driver, as defined in section 1 of chapter 159A½, for the cost of the per-ride assessment. Not later than June 30, the director shall post on the divisionâ(TM)s website the aggregate number of rides from the previous calendar year originating within each city or town.

    The rider or the driver are not to be charged. So it has to come out of Uber's existing take of each ride. It makes it more expensive for Uber while it doesn't cost the rider any more and the driver still makes just as much.

    But ultimately there is no way to prevent Uber from just raising their costs in other areas to offset their costs. It's no different than fining a company for some illegal act...the cost is always ultimately passed on to the customer. Or a police department settling a lawsuit...it's not the police that pay it, it's the tax payers. The one that actually pays money into the system is always the one that foots the increased costs.

  6. Re:How do you ban someone from passing on this cos by schwit1 · · Score: 3, Insightful
    "Taxes are bad enough without Big Brother sticking its fat nose into your business and telling you exactly how to pay them."

    Welcome to socialism.

  7. Re:How do you ban someone from passing on this cos by fluffernutter · · Score: 1, Insightful

    What's bullshit is a company being able to come in and cut all corners when those corners were put there because it's what makes a service equally available for everyone. Taxi services are part of the overall transportation plan for the city. Uber doesn't want to be part of the plan, they just want to make money. That's why there needs to be an equalization.

    --
    Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
  8. Re:How do you ban someone from passing on this cos by fnj · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It's bullshit. Of course they can't prevent it. They can prohibit passing on the tax as an enumerated line item, and maybe make that stick,but there's no way in hell they can stop uber from just raising its rates by ... gee ... just HAPPENS to be the same amount as the tax.

    They do this with gas stations. Gas stations are prohibited from enumerating on their signage the taxes which the corrupt statist pigs are saddling you with.

  9. Subsidies by fyngyrz · · Score: 5, Insightful

    LMOL yes moron Uber competes with taxi service.

    Sure. Any transport method that is used instead of another is competition. Walking, bicycles, private cars, motorcycles, skateboards, Segways, busses, subways, jitneys, hansoms, taxis, limos, Uber... all competitors that reduce opportunity for the others.

    Anyway, the story is that Uber's earnings will be garnished to subsidize taxis. I wonder, would people approve if their bicycles and cars and so on were taxed specifically to subsidize taxis and/or other transportation methods?

    It's fascinating to see the "this business has a right to exist, workable business model or not" attitude arise in a new space, and to watch the politicians be bought and sold accordingly.

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
  10. Re:When it stops moving, subsidize it... by EndlessNameless · · Score: 5, Insightful

    And all the laws that were designed to prevent banking meltdowns didn't stop the last meltdown

    This is specifically not accurate.

    The Glass-Steagall Act prevented major banking meltdowns since it was passed in the aftermath of the Great Depression. We're talking a 50-60 year track record of success.

    The affiliation provisions were struck in 1999, and within a decade there was a major banking crisis. The seeds of that destruction were sown almost immediately after the law was changed. Because, surprise, banks are still run by short-sighted, overly "clever" assholes who will do anything to turn a quick buck.

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    According to the latest ruleset, this post should be modded as Vorpal Flamebait +5.