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Tesla Unveils New Model S, Its Quickest Production Car (bloomberg.com)
Electric car maker Tesla said Tuesday that it is launching a 100-kilowatt-hour (kWh) battery for its Model S and Model X cars. A report on Bloomberg says: Tesla is adding versions of its Model S sedan and Model X sport utility vehicle with a more powerful battery pack that the company said makes the Model S the world's quickest production car and gives it range of 315 miles on a single charge. Chief Executive Officer Elon Musk is trying to appeal to sports car enthusiasts with the new Model S P100D with a 100 kilowatt-hour battery, which with Ludicrous mode can go from a standstill to 60 miles per hour in 2.5 seconds, compared with 2.8 seconds for the P90D Ludicrous version. The P100D Ludicrous upgrade costs $10,000 for customers who have ordered a P90D Ludicrous but haven't taken delivery, or $20,000 for owners who already have that vehicle type.
While true that the P100D will be Tesla's quickest production car, the news is that it is *the* quickest production car that is currently made and available to purchase new. That one little word makes a difference.
How fast is the 0 to 88 MPH speed?
Same as the Atom 500. And they will both do it more than once per day.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
It's a bit complicated.
Once it hits 88MPH, the clock sometimes measures as low as -60 years.
Once the clock was even show the lowest point of -70 years, but it was after getting hit by ligthning.
But mileage is shitty, it eats 1.21 jigowatts.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
>"The P100D Ludicrous upgrade costs $10,000 for customers who have ordered a P90D Ludicrous but haven't taken delivery, or $20,000 for owners who already have that vehicle type."
What is ludicrous is not just the speed, but the price! :)
Oh, and do note, in that mode your range will be ludicrously low...
Why's it called the Ludicrous version? Does it go to plaid?
But that's no longer in production. Are there any faster cars you can buy today?
The price on that Porsche ($850,000+) makes the Teslas seem positively sensible!
Do you think I can get this "Ludacris" mode retrofitted onto my '95 Mazda Protege?
https://youtu.be/G9ITtVbx-c4
I'm not a Musk-car fan, but knowing it has a Ludacris mode makes me really want one.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Oddly enough I was messaging a friend about the high cost of the battery upgrade for the old roadster model earlier today. Personally the extreme cost of the batteries (much higher than say a replacement engine) leaves me with big questions about how viable electric cars will be from a maintenance perspective.
Observers would say "Look at that S car go!'
Not a production car.
I mean, shit, they produce 100 per YEAR.
There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
While the 918 Spyder is its own thing...even just relatively "regular" Porsches are pushing up against it...
The 2014 911 Turbo S did it in 2.6
The 2017 911 Turbo S is expected to do it in at least 2.5s if not faster; so even if can't buy one today, its not like its going to be long at all before a bevy of high end cars can do it.
And the tech in the 918 is going to be showing up all over the place within a year or 3.
Not to take anything away from the Tesla, any car that can do 0-60 in 2.5s is impressive in its own right; and it gets full credit for it's MASSIVE contribution to the electric car landscape. And although I really don't care for the Tesla itself; I am very much looking forward to the next decade; as Porsche and the rest start releasing more hybrids and full electrics; and the space fills up with options.
First para. of Tesla's blog entry of today with the announcement; emphasis added:
It's not abnormal
The battery, not the motor, is the most expensive part in an electric car.
There are electric car makers who sell you only an empty car, and rent you the battery.
e.g.: Renault's Zoé
These cars are rather cheap.
(And in case of the Zoé, Renault have stated that:
- they DON'T do remote kills, even if they technically own the battery
- in fact they don't do any DRM on the battery
- you could in theory stop paying the battery, bring it back, and refit the car with something else (yup, they are open to the idea of 3rd party battery market that is eventually going to appear as e-cars get more popular) )
(Disclaimer: there are Zoé in pool of cars at the local car-sharing company that I often drive).
To over-simplify to the point of carricature :
In a gaz-powered car:
- The motor is a horribly complex high-precision mechanical piece with thousands of precise components, gearbox and transmission system, etc...
- The tank is basically a huge jerrycan, with a simple cap at one end to top up, and a glorified faucet at the other end to bring fuel into the car.
(Yup I'm over simplifying but you got the picture).
In an electical car:
- The motor is basically just a huge coil almost directly connected to the wheel (well, not quite. There's a fixed ratio gearbox), and that's about it. It just spins faster or slower depending on needs, no complex transmission in play.
- The energy storage is an awfully complex beast: complex (and explosive) chemistry in the battery that requires either custom parts or in Tesla's case a complex grid of thousands of simple common off-the-shelf 18650 elements, with a very complex battery manager to charge and top up the energy storage while keeping the longevity of the battery, and a high power circuit to convert the battery output into what high AC current is precisely needed at the time by the motor.
So yeah, take the energy storage out of the equation, and the rest of the electric car is cheap.
Or in a different perspective: adding 10% more energy to the storage is a complex task, that is going to cost a lot if you pay the battery upfront (like in Teslas)
It's not like extending the range 10% in a gaz powered car (where it's basically about increasing the the "glorified jerrycan" about ~10%)
It's more like extending the power or efficiency of a gaz powered car (where it would need an entirely new and better mottor, which is also going to cost a lot).
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
Do they perform well on a track? I used to be all about straight line speed but I've been watching Top Gear a lot recently.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
You keep saying that as if you know better, but they keep calling it a *limited* production car.
There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
The Porsche 918 Spyder cannot be purchased new anymore. And I don't think you could call it a production car even when it was being made, as it was not made on a mass production line. There were only a relatively small number built.
This and no other is the root from which a tyrant springs; when first he appears as a protector - Plato (423 to 327 BC)
The Porsche 918 is not a production car. It is largely built by hand in very limited production runs. Here...watch a video of its production.
This and no other is the root from which a tyrant springs; when first he appears as a protector - Plato (423 to 327 BC)
lol, very true.
I just added a Ludicrous mode to my mobility scooter last weekend. Was even going to call it that, but label too long :(
24v scooter now runs off of 60v and uses the little wheelie bars on it extensively :))
Mine is more like 0-6 mph in .25 seconds. Really it is probably close to that and top end of 20 mph or so in 1 sec
The 'hold my beer and watch this' mode is next but i doubt the motor will survive 72v for long.
If the full size car is half as much fun..... ;)
Here is a google search for "car fires". Thousands of pictures of gasoline cars on fire. Here is another search for "Lamborghini Fires". There are many. How many recent Tesla fires can you mention? I'll bet is is approximately two. And yet they are reported ad nauseum. And filthy trolls like you act as if they happen all the time. They don't.
This and no other is the root from which a tyrant springs; when first he appears as a protector - Plato (423 to 327 BC)
"Wake me when the Tesla becomes an affordable car.
"
Early adopters spend lots of money now, so that later you can spend a lot less for the same thing. It's been that way with all new tech.
LOL, Tesla is actually planning on a production line or two for it.
Not a few hundred, hand built 'production' cars.
Oh, and costs less than $500,000, unlike all the hand built labor of those other 'production' cars.
There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
Go to sleep until next year when the Model 3 comes out.
I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
Porsche 918 Spyder is 0-60 in 2.3s. Elon has a ways to go still.
On the other hand, an electric motor can easily produce its maximum torque at stall.
An electric car, with adequately sized motors, controllers, and batteries (or other power sources) should be able to drive the tires to the traction limit from a standing start to the speed where the available power will no longer sustain that level of acceleration - well over 60 MPH. This means the acceleration is limited solely by the coefficient of friction of the tire/road contact surface - a critical parameter that can be tightly tracked, during acceleration, by drive electronics akin to non-skid brake controllers.
So an electric car should be able to get the best possible standing-start rating out of any given tire technology - and be literally unbeatable in such a contest.
IMHO the only reason (pre-Tesla) electric cars had a reputation for being underpowered creampuffs rather than unbeatable sprint sports cars, is that the automobile manufacturers thought the purchasers would all be eco-freaks, more interested in mileage and ideology than performance, and designed lower-manufacturing-cost, underpowered, cars for this market.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
Obviously electric vehicles (today) aren't a fit for everyone. ...but they are a great fit for most people. Range anxiety disappears after a couple weeks behind the wheel.
Are you aware that the Porsche 918 Spyder has two electric motors? It's a plug-in hybrid.
A stupid-fast car that I can't take to the track without overheating the battery after one lap and replacing the tires after tearing them up trying to put a 2100kg car around a corner at speed.
What part of the term "splitting hairs" do you not understand?
Christ, AC's, 2.5 seconds 0-60 in a street-legal sedan that seats five is fuck fucking fast. That's an acceleration of 24 mph per second or 1.09g's.
At a fraction of the cost of a Bugatti Veyron. Probably less for insurance, too. So what if some hand-made toy for sons of oil barons squeaks 0.1 second more? You have better odds of strapping a solid-rocket to your Chevy than driving, much less obtaining, one of these so-called supercars that look so pretty in the magazines.
So, give it up, a little. The Tesla, at least, is on the horizon of obtainable, if you sell your house, raid the retirement and the kid's college fund, or wholesale a couple of keys of... no, scratch that last one.
Take it easy, Charlie, I've got an Angle...
It must make you so angry to realize how much more Musk has accomplished already compared to what you will ever be able to accomplish. He's become a billionaire three times over - paypal, tesla, spaceX - and driven those arenas far further forward than anyone else at the time.
And the most you're capable of is calling people moron on the internet.
There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
Nah. Please skip buying EVs. Within 5 years, you will find it is slim pickings for new cars, BUT you will be able to buy used 2 y.o S class MB for 10-20,000.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
The Model 3 is still 2x the price of a new ICE car for getting from A to B, and 5x an old but usable car. If you're looking for affordable, you're in for a long wait.
Waiting might be the thing to do. Theres little in the lower traon to go wrong and the batteries last a long time. A used model with 200,000+ on it could still be a perfectly reliable commuter.
Arg, mobile. *power train
I thought this was an odd statement:
"While the P100D Ludicrous is obviously an expensive vehicle, we want to emphasize that every sale helps pay for the smaller and much more affordable Tesla Model 3 that is in development. Without customers willing to buy the expensive Model S and X, we would be unable to fund the smaller, more affordable Model 3 development."
https://www.tesla.com/blog/new-tesla-model-s-now-quickest-production-car-world
Given Tesla's history of missed dates and missed production numbers, should we be concerned about the Model 3 viability and timeliness given this statement?
You keep saying that as if you know better, but they keep calling it a *limited* production car.
A limited production car is a subset of all production cars. As far as classification goes, the term "production car" comes from the rules for various group autoracing - see this for overview - and each group has different rules for allowing cars. Some need production cars with at least 2500 produced per year while others allowed a mere 200/year production run[1].
The classification "production car" for all groups means "a car produced for sale to the public". No more, no less. Even a handcrafted Bentley is considered a production car.
[1] Thus resulting in such rare beauties like the Ferrari 288GTO.
I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
Elon can do better, with some help from above.
The model 3 is the same as the average price of a new car sold in America, and less than one sold in Europe.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
The only thing a tesla is good for is starting on fire.
Holy crap! Last time I lit my car on fire it wouldn't start at all.
Tesla impresses me more every day.
How is Elon Musk appealing to sports car enthusiasts with an expensive family sedan?
By making that family sedan go 0-60 in 2.5 seconds.
It's interesting how the Model 3 is already screwing all the other EV manufacturers so badly, even though it isn't out for more than a year (and likely 2019 for general availability in the UK, first year's production is already sold).
Other manufacturers are struggling to catch up. For example, Nissan say they will start offering some kind of auto-pilot soon, but it will be single lane and limited to 30-60 MPH. Pretty useless really, can't operate in start-stop traffic or at motorway speeds. Nissan don't do software upgrades either, so the only way to get the next version due out a year later with two-lane support will be to buy a new car!
Then you have the supercharger network. Chances are Tesla will offer some kind of pay-as-you-go option for people who want to do occasional long trips without spending thousands up-front for lifetime access. Other manufacturers are relying on commercial charging networks, most of which are less than impressive. In the UK, for example, we have the Electric Highway but it's all 50kW chargers (Tesla's are 120+kW) and there are typically only two (!) at most sites. And one is often broken, and you need a stupid mobile app to use them.
The Model 3 is going to offer Ludicrous mode, and the base model is expected to be pretty quick. Most other manufacturers are still hovering around the 10 second 0-60 mark. Tiny little touch screens that never get updated, and small batteries.
People are thinking, do I really want a 3 year deal on a Leaf or i3 when the Model 3 or a used Model S will be available in the next year or two, especially when a used Leaf to tide me over is pretty cheap. Or just go back to ICE for a bit, because why buy a car that will be out of date almost immediately, never get updated and depreciate rapidly?
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
How long will the battery last if a person does the 2.5 second acceleration at every stop light? Because in all honesty I would have trouble not doing that.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
CA may treat it as a production car for the purposes of licensing, but if a normal asshole can't go down to a dealer with a fistful of cash and buy one then it's not one.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Nah. Please skip buying EVs. Within 5 years, you will find it is slim pickings for new cars, BUT you will be able to buy used 2 y.o S class MB for 10-20,000.
Luxury cars are built for the first buyer. That 2 year old S-Class is going to cost you another 10-20k in repairs if you want everything on it to work. It's not just MB either. A guy on the QW D2 A8 forum says his wife's Q7 (IIRC) just literally blew up two of its four airbags because it got confused. He dad to have his wife bleed pressure from the other two at a fitting (!) just to get home.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
The wording on that was misleading enough I had to go check - the quote you made is indeed from official tesla.com blurb. I'm wondering how 5 adults and 2 children can fit in that car!? I mean, do the kids have to sit in the boot? When I was a kid we occasionally had to sit in the boot for a quick trip to the park with half a dozen of our friends, but these days I doubt it's even legal (and certainly not something claimed by the car manufacturers).
The pictures of the model S have two seats at the front. There aren't many pictures to go on, but I assume a three-person bench seat in the middle and luggage space at the back. I can see how 5 adults can get in there, but not sure about the kids. Anyone know?
I have to say though, a ~300 mile range is really pretty good - not far off our conventional car. Interesting stuff - now they just need to get the cost down and we'll buy one ;-)
Nope.
What it amounts to, is that luxury sedans are going to take a HUGE dive in resale value when M3 hits the market.
Then when MY hits, I believe that even the luxury X-overs will have major resale value losses.
As that sinks into the wealthy, they will INSIST on buying only electric and only ones that are like Tesla.
They are not going to buy junk like I3.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Then when MY hits, I believe that even the luxury X-overs will have major resale value losses.
Luxury everything has major resale value losses. But they buy them anyway, because they don't want anything less.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
uh, I am guessing that you have never owned a luxury ANYTHING.
MB, Audi, BMW, Caddy, Lexus, etc all hold their resale value MUCH better than other cars.
That is why the wealthy buy them. What will drive them down in resale is if nobody wants to own an ICE vehicle anymore.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Not necessarily. You're thinking of older, more basic, motor designs, connected directly to a supply (such as a series-wound motor), not a modern electrical machines with winding currents controlled by switching regulators.
Torque is proportional to the product of the stator and rotor magnetic fields, which in turn for wound magnets) are proportional to current.
In a simple motor the current is limited by the fixed voltage applied across the winding resistance, which drops as the machine speeds up due to back-EMF generated by the motor's motion.
In a switching regulator controlled winding the resistance is very low (to reduce I-squared-R losses) and the current is controlled by the switching regulator. The current at stall is potentially astronomical as a result, limited by the regulator's dwell time, not the raw supply voltage. As the motor speeds up the current (and thus the torque) can be maintained at a desired (and high) value despite the rising back-EMF, up to an RPM and back-EMF where the switch would have to be on full-time (or full half-cycle time for AC-excited windings) to push the desired current through the winding resistance.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
uh, I am guessing that you have never owned a luxury ANYTHING.
I own an A8. It's worth fuck all. It's only a D2, but even the D3s are starting to get cheap now.
That is why the wealthy buy them.
No. The wealthy buy them because they are better while they last. They don't give a fuck about resale value. They dump them while they're still young and fresh.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Complex and explosive chemisty?
That's it, no more batteries for me.
I'll stick to safe and simple combustion.
I know you joke but:
- gaz (petrol) doesn't explode (unlike what Holywood has taught you), it just burns.
To make it explode you need the perfect mix of oxygen. Hence the complicated fine mechanical components in a internal combustion engine (pistons, manifolds, etc.)
Fun fact: you could in theory make anything that burns explode by making a correct mix with oxygen:
- a big block of wood just burns. Saw dust suspended in the air burns explosively
- grain might burn if dry enough. But you can actually make bombs out of flour suspended in the air
and the one that every chemistry and fireman know:
- gaz (methane/buthane) at the gaz burner just burns. (hence the name, duh). On the other hand, a roomful of gaz (gaz + air mix) + spark....
The reason why we use gaz (petrol) inside most cars is due to energy efficiency. But you could make explosion out of anything BUT NEED TO MIX AIR FOR IT TO WORK.
- On the other hand :
Lithium is highly reactive. (Well the whole point of a rechargeable battery's chemistry is to have a lot of electrons that you can easily move around [=easily make red-ox reactions]...)
It has a nasty tendency to explode (if you over-charge, if you undercharge too much before recharging, if you draw too much current, if you charge too much current, if you overheat, if you puncture, if.... well basically if you look at it the wrong way).
Luckily that's why nearly all modern lithium batteries have built-in electronics (a.k.a.: "battery manager") to control and protect them.
(That's what the third pad in addition to "+" and "-" on smartphone batteries is: it's a data channel to communicate with the built-in protection and get some extra informations, like temperature).
Well "nearly all"... /. and Youtube kindly remembers for you a certain batch of Sony laptop batteries with faulty built-in managers that had several laptops burst into flames.
Fast forward a few years later and we see again the same faulty batteries with the cheapest and shittiest "hover board" self-balancing boards out of China.
That's one of the major fallacies in Oatmeal's strip about his new Tesla car (but yeah he's a cartoonist, not a chemist):
the gaz in the tank of a ice-powered car is *theoretically* a lot less dangerous than the lithium in an electric car's humongous battery.
(there's no explosive liquid stored anywhere near the balls of an ICE driver. The electric-car driver is the one sitting above a big mass of lithium no matter how far away is the sun that was used to charge the battery).
Luckily in practice, Tesla isn't like the shady Chinese companies making craptastic batteries mentioned above.
They do the necessary design to make the battery secure and in *practice* their car aren't explosive (despite all the bad mouthing around the 2-3 fires reported).
But to go back to the subject of the discussion and my above post :
well that's why Tesla's 100kWh battery cost so much more. battery are expensive, because of all the above.
Want more gaz ? Just make a bigger jug to store the gaz. At worst, if its catch fire, it's going just to burn a little while longer. That's it.
Want more electricity ? be ready to pay a lot, battery are complex and you need complex electronics to regulate the electricity that goes in during charging or that goes out to power to motor, because if you don't you're in for quite some fireworks (see Sony laptop batteries and Chinese self-balancing board maker for what happens when you fail to do your homework).
So modern car batteries in practice aren't dangerous, but that comes at a price.
(That's also why I'm highly doubting about the Chinese car manufacturer mentioned here on /. that wanted to make electric cars for free/paid by the ads.
To make the batteries that cheap, some very dangerous compromises might have been made).
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]