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Microsoft Hopes To Hire More Coders With Autism (fastcompany.com)

Posted by EditorDavid on from the neurodiversity dept.

Autistic people are methodical and detail-oriented, and a new Microsoft program is trying to hire more of them, according to Fast Company. Slashdot reader tedlistens writes: Vauhini Vara takes a look at the at the (difficult) efforts of Microsoft to recruit more autistic engineers and make a more neurodiverse workplace, through the lens of one of those coders. "The program, which began in May 2015, does away with the typical interview approach, instead inviting candidates to hang out on campus for two weeks and work on projects while being observed and casually meeting managers who might be interested in hiring them. Only at the end of this stage do more formal interviews take place.

"The goal is to create a situation that is better suited to autistic people's styles of communicating and thinking. Microsoft isn't the first to attempt something like this: The German software firm SAP, among a handful of others, have similar programs -- but Microsoft is the highest-profile company to have gone public with its efforts, and autistic adults are hoping it will spark a broader movement."
One autistic coder says they make better employees because "You don't have to tell someone not to go home early. They'll just stay." But there's also a push to bring different analytical and creative approaches into Microsoft's company culture. The article ultimately asks the question, "Could the third-largest corporation in the world make the case that hiring and employing autistic people, with all their social and intellectual quirks, was good, not bad, for business?"

111 of 226 comments (clear)

  1. So, employees they can abuse via overwork by HBI · · Score: 4, Insightful

    And, people who will worry about the "how" instead of the "why". Perfect for Microsoft, based on their past history.

    --
    HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
    1. Re:So, employees they can abuse via overwork by Kobun · · Score: 2

      I feel like this is a good thing overall. But it's especially good compared to letting the abusive H1B Indentured Servant program continue.

    2. Re:So, employees they can abuse via overwork by kbrannen · · Score: 1

      There is that, but I'm also concerned about the abuse up front. They want them to come and "hang out and work for 2 weeks" without being hired? Is MS paying for food and lodging at least? Is MS just taking 2 weeks of work for free? Do these people do that all of that for the "hope" of being hired in the end, which might not happen?

      I've heard of "speculative interviewing" before, but this really seems over the top to me.

    3. Re:So, employees they can abuse via overwork by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      but this really seems over the top to me.

      Seems perfectly normal to me. Lots of companies use an approach that's very similar including hiring on temporary contracts before getting a permanent one. This doesn't seem much of a stretch from that. I got my current job by working as a temp with 4 other people for 60 days with a very crappy up front interview. At the end of the 60 days I got a formal full-time offer, the other's were shown the door.

    4. Re:So, employees they can abuse via overwork by jrumney · · Score: 1

      Burnout is never good for business. Henry Ford worked this out over a century ago, why do modern IT sweatshops think it doesn't apply to them?.

    5. Re:So, employees they can abuse via overwork by HBI · · Score: 1

      Quarterly results based thinking.

      --
      HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
    6. Re: So, employees they can abuse via overwork by jmcvetta · · Score: 1

      In today's American tech industry, it always boils down to "moar slave labor!!!1!!"

    7. Re: So, employees they can abuse via overwork by J.+J.+Ramsey · · Score: 1

      You're assuming that autistics wouldn't have hobbies outside of work. Bad assumption.

  2. Spectrum... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I suspect that most coders fall somewhere on the spectrum anyway. Are they specifically looking for the rocking back and forth level of autism? The "awkward, can't look you in the eye, bad grooming"? Or the "I'm always right and get insanely defensive" (also includes defense extremists who have OVERLY strong political views)?

    1. Re:Spectrum... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Are they specifically looking for the rocking back and forth level of autism?

      The "rocking" is often an indicator of neglect, often as a result of late diagnosis. An autistic child needs treatment, stimulation, and education. They should not be left in the corner to rock back and forth.

      The "awkward, can't look you in the eye, bad grooming"? Or the "I'm always right and get insanely defensive"s?

      Training and education can help here too. "Normals" learn social skills indirectly by observing those around them. Autistic people often need explicit rules and checklists: Greet people in the hallway. Smile and look people in the eye. No political discussions at work. Etc.

    2. Re:Spectrum... by MatiasKiviniemi · · Score: 2

      Yes and further they are in the spectrum, the more problems they usually have with being able to communicate at sufficient level. For an inhouse western coder the ability to clearly communicate why something matters is as important as pure coding ability. You need to be in meetings with business owners, marketing, designers and deliver your expertise in way that is understandable to people with no coding experience. If it's OK that someone drops you a spec and you start hammering away, they can ship it to India.

    3. Re:Spectrum... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      And if you can't look people in the eye, look at the bridge of their nose. They will likely never know.

      Learned off the telly from an Asperger's kid who wrote a book on his experiences.

      Works well, to the point that it ultimately trains you to be much more comfortable looking them in the eye. At least it helped me; I'm probably a 'normal', though at times in my youth, had diagnosis been more common, some of my repetitive behaviours and lack of non-verbal communication ability might have been put down to Asperger's rather than what I now think are the causes -- wildly varying tenency to shyness and very definite OCD.

    4. Re: Spectrum... by undefinedreference · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That was my first thought as well. All the best developers I've ever worked with were quite socially awkward, most probably somewhere on the spectrum. The best I ever hired was absolutely awful in the interview and nobody else could see what I saw in him.

      High-functioning autistics succeeding in tech careers have resulted in what some have described as an "epidemic" of ASDs among children in Silicon Valley. One of the problems is that high-functioning autistics still seldom move up into management (even if they want to), which keeps companies from hiring lower-functioning people with strong skills.

      At the very least, it's good to see some companies looking at working on diversity on this front. Too bad it will probably take decades to catch on in smaller companies where they'd likely be far more comfortable.

    5. Re:Spectrum... by peragrin · · Score: 1

      Bad parenting is. Diease. One that is passed from parent to child. A child that is spanked, hit a lot will be more likely to hit their kids. We make the world a bettdr place r by raising our kids with less violence than previous generation. We raise our kids to be nice to everyone, to not stigmatise one person for being different ( skin color. Wealth, gender, looks, life style, etc) and they will be less likely to do those things. The usa hasn't had one generation yet of racial equality hell we haven't had A century of women voting,

      Change takes generations. You have to initiate change and force it on two generations and then let those generations die of old age for it to truly take effect.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    6. Re:Spectrum... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Having witnessed siblings growing up in the same environment with one being high on the autism spectrum and the other not on it at all, I feel safe in saying you have no idea what you are talking about.

    7. Re: Spectrum... by Bartles · · Score: 1

      That's because the "spectrum" has been continuously expanded in recent decades so now just about anyone with an awkward personality straight is on the "spectrum". It has even become trendy to be on the "spectrum". Probably because of stupid articles like this one that assign mystical superpowers to people on the "spectrum". The reality is that only a small percentage of people with autism would be capable of coding for Microsoft.

    8. Re:Spectrum... by morethanapapercert · · Score: 5, Informative
      You have no idea what you're talking about. Worse yet, you aren't even aware of just how poor your knowledge of the subject really is.

      Let me establish my credentials before I attempt to educate you.*

      I am on the autistic spectrum myself (Asperger's), I worked for several years as a Big Brother, Personal support Worker and in-class Educational Assistant specializing in autistic and behavioural modification programs. I have two sons both on the spectrum and one foster son with a learning disability that isn't autistic, but shares many symptoms of spectrum disorders. As a result, I have literally decades of experience working with autism, as well as the medical and educational systems doing what can be done for children and youths on the spectrum.

      1) ALL kids pick their nose at some point and virtually all adults do as well. All we really teach kids is to a) do it privately if possible and b) not to eat what they extract. Parents of autistic kids face the challenge that the child won't stop doing it whenever they feel the need unless you can give them a sensible reason why. Telling them it's rude, disgusting or whatever won't work. Nor will "because I said so" But explanations about how mucus contains a lot of bacteria and that nose picking spreads germs, risking making other people sick does work. (with one exception: If nose picking happens to be one of their "stimming" behaviours then you can't teach them to stop doing it. Instead you have to focus on managing the stress, boredom or external sensory input that is causing them to stim in reaction.)

      2) Autistic kids often love video games even more than the neurotypical kids because it allows them to focus on one thing. The rules are very clear and consistent. It also provides a constantly varying but still predictable level of stimulation. Forcing them to just go outside and seek out playmates the same way the other kids do is like tossing a non-swimmer into a pool and telling them to swim the way everyone else is doing. Autistic children just don't have the skill-set to do that. Most people have an inherent or latent ability to socialize. Autistic people don't. They have to learn social skills on a conscious level. Many autistic kids can learn to play with the other children, but it takes an adult to properly frame and explain the rules to the child and much practice before they are comfortable with it. There is usually a lengthy period of adult supervision and coaching required. In the same way, attending school or holding a job presents enormous challenges to the autistic. School can be a source of huge stress to an autistic child. The structure of set class times and seeing the same teacher(s) every day at the same times is good for the autistic. But being proactive at answering questions, working on joint projects, even simply navigating the more chaotic environment of the hallways and playground can be difficult, even overwhelming. Let's not forget that children are very very good at picking up on who is different in some way and can be very insensitive, even cruel when it comes to dealing with kids outside the norm. Autistic kids get picked on a LOT because they are different. Forcing them to go play unsupervised in the playground is setting them up to be the victim. And since autistic kids are not good at expressing themselves, they often bottle up their frustrations and anger at being bullied until they explode and go postal on a kid. And all too often, teachers don't see the bullying, but they DO see the inappropriate explosion of violence, so autistic kids get into trouble more often and tend to get more severe punishments if the staff are not properly trained on the challenges of teaching autistic kids. 3) You are correct that if one can play minecraft, one can work a cash register. But that is a very simplistic statement. It totally ignores all of the other soft skills a person needs in order to be a cashier. Soft skills which go far beyond making eye contact and saying "have a nice day" I might add. If o

      --
      I need a wheelchair van for my son. Help me get the word out. https://www.gofundme.com/wheelchair-van-for-jj
    9. Re: Spectrum... by zwarte+piet · · Score: 1

      Oh, you work at a hotel?

    10. Re:Spectrum... by NicknameUnavailable · · Score: 1

      I suspect that most coders fall somewhere on the spectrum anyway. Are they specifically looking for the rocking back and forth level of autism? The "awkward, can't look you in the eye, bad grooming"? Or the "I'm always right and get insanely defensive" (also includes defense extremists who have OVERLY strong political views)?

      No, Microsoft has had had a problem for at least a decade of believing people with marketing/sales aptitude were programmers because they could pass through the absurd interview process on campus. They probably define autism as "can't sell me a pen."

    11. Re:Spectrum... by Jason+Levine · · Score: 2

      That's what I do. Either look at their nose or a spot just behind their head (but close enough to their head that my eyes appear directed at them). Looking someone directly in the eyes, though, results in ever increasing anxiety until I need to look away.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    12. Re:Spectrum... by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

      "I'm always right and get insanely defensive..."

      So Slashdot autism, then.

    13. Re:Spectrum... by microTodd · · Score: 2

      An honest question, maybe you'll actually see my reply. My son is 8 and I've always suspected he might be on the spectrum, but all his teachers always assured me everything was fine so he didn't need any help. But everything you describe seems to fit him to a T.

      Do you have any web links to any resources or anything that go in to more detail on this, and what maybe I can do to help?

      Thanks in advance.

      --
      "You cannot find out which view is the right one by science in the ordinary sense." - C.S. Lewis on Intelligent Design
    14. Re:Spectrum... by morethanapapercert · · Score: 3, Informative
      There is a wealth of information out there to be had. It doesn't take much in the way of Google-fu to come up with the Autism Society of America or the National Autism Association Both of those are good places to start.

      For your specific situation; I have a few things to consider, bits of advice:

      1) It's called a spectrum for a reason. A child with autism may be only mildly affected or severely affected. Also; it's quite common for a child to have some traits or measured levels that qualify as autistic, while they may be normal or even above normal in other ways. Each kid is different. Thus, they may be considered severely affected on one axis, moderately so on another and totally fine on one or more others. This may explain why your sons teachers think he is fine. The attributes they see are within the normal range, whereas you see the bigger picture.

      2) Proper testing and diagnosis starts with your family physician or pediatrician. You need to set up a 1/2 hr appt with him or her and explain why you think your child has an issue. Your doctor will then hopefully refer you and your child to a specialist in developmental disorders

      2) Ultimately, autism is a diagnosis of exclusion. An average child goes through a year or two of testing before a diagnosis of autism is reached, because there are a large number of other learning disabilities or developmental disorders that share similar symptoms with autism. You need to prepare yourself to be patient during this phase.

      3) There is no medication, no regime of diet or therapy is that is a "cure" for autism. (indeed, a large segment of the autistic community argues there is no *need* for a cure, they are fine the way they are...) What exists are teaching and coaching programs to help the child consciously master the soft skills the neurotypical majority take for granted. There are medications which can help buffer the secondary symptoms (anxiety, depression, co-morbid sleep disorders etc) but for the most part it is the patient teaching that creates the change, not the meds.

      4) The teaching and coaching isn't just for the kids. Where I live, there is an excellent program (under the auspices of local community mental health groups) to teach the parents, and in some cases, the siblings how to understand and interact with the affected child. If such a program exists in your area, I highly recommend looking into it for your whole family.

      5) You will constantly encounter people who have formed opinions about autistic kids based on incomplete or outdated information. The withdrawn rocking child is the archetypical face of autism, but one that only describes the most severely affected. (and, as described elsewhere in this thread, a symptom of an autistic kid who is overwhelmed, hasn't been given the mental tools to cope with excessive stimuli.) It is possible that your child's teacher has the assumption that all autistic kids are that withdrawn and unsocial archetype. And let us not forget what the other gentleman (ourlovecanlastforeve 795111) above blasted. There are many many people who think the misbehaviours, weird obsessions and compulsions are the product of bad parenting and they are quick to judge you accordingly.

      --
      I need a wheelchair van for my son. Help me get the word out. https://www.gofundme.com/wheelchair-van-for-jj
    15. Re: Spectrum... by bad-badtz-maru · · Score: 1

      Outside of increasingly niche situations, it seems like there's no future in being the ones "making stuff" at a company. Get promoted to management before you get outsourced is the name of the game.

    16. Re:Spectrum... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      You seem to be saying that I, as a software guy, need to talk to business and marketing types as a routine part of my job. From my point of view, that's one of the things management is for. Granted, I could make more if I got into management (which I really really don't want to do), but I'm an important part of the company making more money than I really need anyway. I almost never get a comprehensive spec, but usually talk with the end users (like most developers, I write software that gets used inside the company) to figure out what they want and how to best give it to them.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  3. Exploited? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    One autistic coder says they make better employees because "You don't have to tell someone not to go home early. They'll just stay."

    Ah, it makes it easier to exploit employees.

    And now, businesses are going to start putting in their requirements "diagnosed autism" in their job descriptions. It's like when MS started asking those brain teasers and every business started doing it.

    I'm glad that business is starting to see non-normal behavior as being a reason for instant disqualification, but I see this going to extremes.

    1. Re:Exploited? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Exploitation, and the fact that it creates pressure on others to do likewise. Overtime should be heavily discouraged, a last resort when proper planning has failed, ideally matched by extra time off elsewhere.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    2. Re:Exploited? by Z80a · · Score: 1

      Do overtime actually even work well at all? or the time you "save" with it is lost with an extended QA?

    3. Re:Exploited? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      Ah, it makes it easier to exploit employees.

      Is it exploitation if the employee wants to work late? Employment gives autistic people purpose and social engagement that is often lacking in other areas of their lives. So if they choose to work late with their co-workers rather than going home to sit in an empty apartment, why is that a bad thing? That decision should be theirs, not yours.

      but I see this going to extremes.

      You shouldn't. Rates of employment among autistic people vary widely by country. Some countries do a way better job of integrating these people than others. The Economist recently had a good article on the reasons for this. From the article: About 80% of autistic people are not employed. 87% of autistic youngsters who were given assistance to find a job, got one. Only 6% who did not receive support were successful. There is enormous potential for improvement, and we are a long, long way from "going to extremes".

    4. Re:Exploited? by davidwr · · Score: 1

      Exploitation, and the fact that it creates pressure on others to do likewise. [emphasis added]

      Bingo on the "likewise."

      I don't see allowing people who WANT to work late to do so as exploitation as long as people are paid based on overall productivity (yes, I know that "measuring productivity" can be gamed but that's another issue). If you are working 80 hour weeks and producing twice as much useful goods or services as your peers, your annual paycheck should be about twice as much.*

      If you are a super-genius and are able to work 20 hours a week and have double the annual productivity as your 40-hour-a-week peers, you should also be paid twice as much.

      But neither case should be used as a finger-pointing to say or imply that "your fellow employee Joe works 80 hours a week, if you can't then you will be rated as below-par on your performance review."

      On the other hand, it is perfectly reasonable to say "For whatever reason - either smarts or hard work or both - Joe is twice as productive as you, so he will be paid more and he will likely be promoted faster than you will." If this type of pressure seems unfair, well, it is but that's tough, [my country] is supposed to be a free country and employers should be allowed to reward talent and hard work. The same is true for most countries that are mostly-democratic, mostly-capitalist (no large country is completely democratic or completely capitalist).

      *Now, of course there should be extra "sacrifice time" pay if you are required or requested to be available during non-business hours or if you are pressured to meet deadlines that simply cannot be met in a normal work-week, but that's another issue.

      ----

      "Exploitation" - and I use the quotations deliberately - works both ways:

      Many years ago I knew a genius programmer (R.La...., if you are reading this, hello) who was not autistic.

      He did a full week of work in half the time.

      He chose to use the rest of the time on tasks that weren't in line with management expectations, so he missed out on what could've been a fast promotion path. He eventually left the company and found a career path that presumably worked out better for him. I would argue that he "exploited" his job so he could have about 4 hours a day in a nice office environment with good Internet connectivity to do what he wanted to do, regardless if it lined up with his boss's expectations (note: as far as I know, he never did anything that HURT his boss, his department, or his employer - he just seemed "unproductive" to the department during those hours). The company wisely kept him on the payroll until he eventually left on his own (at least that's what it looked like from where I stood - I don't know if he got any pressure to quit) - as far as I was concerned, he was worth his paycheck the same as everyone else (he was also a friend, but that's not relevant here).

      By the way, I've worked jobs that I loved that paid by the hour and frankly, it stunk when it was Friday evening and I was "in the groove" and my boss sent me home for the week because HIS boss didn't want to pay me for more than 40 hours that week. Yes, weekends are nice but so is solving problems when you are "in the groove" or having that "zen moment." That is one reason why I think non-exempt professionals who get paid more than a certain amount should be allowed to work 80 hours every 2 weeks or 160 hours every 4 weeks before mandatory time-and-a-half kicks in.

      --
      Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
    5. Re:Exploited? by ourlovecanlastforeve · · Score: 1

      I understand that you probably are a programmer and you probably live in a happy, insular world where all you have to do is push some buttons on a keyboard a few times a week and and maybe get out of bed before 1PM once a month to wander into the office and roll your eyes at your manager for being a square, and out pops a paycheck for $200,000/year, so let me explain to you how overtime works.

      People who work on salary don't get overtime. They get paid a specific amount per year no matter how much work they do. And the company you work for won't tell you that you have to stay in the office working on that project until 3AM, sleep under your desk for 2 hours, then get back to work but they will heavily imply that if you don't, there are plenty of people desperate to have your job, and if you don't work until you're incapacitated and your life is a blur of being judged by your work output, they might find that the metrics they create that are slanted specifically so they can't be met need to be called in.

      Example: If you work as an escalation engineer in a call center, every customer you close a ticket with gets a survey to fill out when you are done working with them. Often as an escalation engineer it's your job to tell the customer they can't have what they want, so the negative outcome that is outside your control comes from you. The questions on the survey are phrased so that the customer is asked to judge their experience with the company rather than your work. However, you are evaluated based on the customer's response. Of course the customer is going to mark every answer on the survey 0 out of 10. You had to tell them they couldn't have the thing they wanted, and if they can't have the thing, that's a bad experience for them. They wouldn't have been escalated to you if they were happy with their experience with the company. These surveys are then saved so that when there's not enough escalation volume to justify continuing to pay you, you can easily be dismissed and the company has a valid claim against you.

      Or all of a sudden you'll be called in to train someone to do a job strikingly similar to yours and oh by the way, now that you've finished training them, you've become redundant.

    6. Re:Exploited? by Z80a · · Score: 1

      Actually, the job you described sounds eerily similar to game programming at a place like EA.

    7. Re:Exploited? by umghhh · · Score: 1

      I am just wondering how that was before. Is this social society of today with pressure to express yourself according to PC policies not actively against these people?
      We will be ostracized anyway - can just as well have a meaning in life exactly as you say.
      Modern society has other barriers too pressure on social contacts is ok - you can learn that and for instance behave better towards minorities than colleagues. But people get offended by straight answers anyway.

    8. Re:Exploited? by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      Read "A Deepness In The Sky", by Vernor Vinge (the prequel to A Fire Upon The Deep, but a completely unrelated story with the same main char.)

      Among a dozen interesting ideas he explores is abusing people by inducing a hyper-autistic fixation on whatever you happen to be good at. The ruling class thus has excellent technicians, engineers, and fantastic artworks. The autists are happy because they get to pursue their interest with a single-minded fixation, never bathing and often forgetting to eat.

      They are free to do what they want. It is what they want, and how badly they want it, that is abused by the ruling class. They are willing slaves. Willing after initial drugging, of course.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    9. Re:Exploited? by istartedi · · Score: 1

      And now, businesses are going to start putting in their requirements "diagnosed autism" in their job descriptions

      And this will be just perfect for the doctors who are no longer doing "420 evaluations" when pot is legal. All they need to do is work on getting "1420" to become slang for autism, and it'll be easy to re-do the signage.

      --
      For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
    10. Re:Exploited? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      Read "A Deepness In The Sky", by Vernor Vinge

      No thanks. I, like many autistic people, have no interest in reading fiction. And I think it is silly to cite a work of fiction in a discussion about reality. For a better insight into the world of Auties, try reading Thinking in Pictures, written by an autistic woman diagnosed as retarded, who went on to earn a PhD in engineering.

      Your description of autistic people as helpless children, incapable of making their own life decisions, is paternalistic crap.

    11. Re:Exploited? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      you're definitely exploiting the workforce, when you start judging employees with normal work-life balance against the yard-stick of the work-late'rs.

      Perhaps. But auties have drawbacks like poor social skills and problems communicating, that offset their tendency to focus and work longer. Why is it "fair" when normals play to strengths, but "unfair" when auties do the same?

    12. Re: Exploited? by Lije+Baley · · Score: 1

      Sorry Bill, but it appears you did not understand Impy's post. There was no description or comment on actually autistic people there, just a concern of analogous exploitation. The people he described were drugged.

      --
      Strange things are afoot at the Circle-K.
    13. Re:Exploited? by NicknameUnavailable · · Score: 1

      There's a difference between "early" and "overtime."

    14. Re:Exploited? by jrumney · · Score: 1

      If you are working 80 hour weeks and producing twice as much useful goods or services as your peers, your annual paycheck should be about twice as much.

      If you are working 80 hour weeks and producing twice as much, my advice would be to switch to 30 hour weeks, and produce three times as much as your peers. There is ample research that shows that productivity is already in decline at 40 hours per week, you are only kidding yourself if you think you are improving anything by working 80 hours. In short bursts, maybe. But long term, that way lies burnout and an increased rate of potentially expensive mistakes (from losing your fingers due to an inattentive moment on a production line, to overlooking the fact that diagnostic routines need to be interrupted by a collision event in airbag control software design).

    15. Re:Exploited? by jrumney · · Score: 1

      Do they really choose, or are they unable to read the social ques of when it would be acceptable to leave, so they just sit at their desk and keep working until everyone else has left?

    16. Re: Exploited? by crankyspice · · Score: 1

      Came here wondering if anyone would reference the Emergents' Focused. Was not disappointed.

      Crankyspice, Programmer at Arms

      --
      geek. lawyer.
  4. That Explaines A Lot. by zenlessyank · · Score: 2, Funny

    You have to be autistic to like Windows 10. Mystery Explained.

    1. Re:That Explaines A Lot. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      You have to be autistic to like Windows 10. Mystery Explained.

      More like retarded.

    2. Re:That Explaines A Lot. by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Excuse me, I'm on the spectrum and I hate Windows 10. It makes me nostalgic for Vista.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  5. Gov subsidised salary / cheaper than HB-1 by ELCouz · · Score: 1

    n/t

  6. Re:Wait! Don't tell them... by IMightB · · Score: 1

    No kidding, we have a guy whos on the hogher functioning autism spectrum at the office right now, he's talented, but picks up on no social cues. He will literally have a conversation with the back of your head for 10 minutes, not picking up on the fact that it's not a good time come back later. I can see this being abused easily. Boss's will think "Hey they'll work 20 hours a day if we stimulate them just so". Day in, Day out, no overtime.

  7. Good by penguinoid · · Score: 4, Insightful

    A flawed hiring strategy was passing over better candidates in favor of people with more social skills, because bigoted and incompetent hiring managers were failing at their jobs by favoring people they like over better-qualified candidates. "Being liked by the sort of people put in charge of hiring" shouldn't be a job qualification.

    (although I'm rather suspicious of this "hang out on campus for two weeks and work on projects" approach, at least if it is not paid)

    --
    Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
    1. Re:Good by Kobun · · Score: 1

      Thank you for putting this so well. I will refer to you if my post up the page requires me to clarify why I'm in support of this.

    2. Re:Good by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      A flawed hiring strategy was passing over better candidates in favor of people with more social skills

      Indeed. Having a group of people hammer a candidate with questions while they write solutions on a whiteboard is a terrible way to do interviews, and does not reflect the actual working environment. I prefer to keep interviews low stress, and if a candidate seems nervous, I offer to leave the room and give them 30 minutes or so to work on a problem in peace and quiet. I have hired several extremely introverted people that way, who have turned out to be great employees.

    3. Re:Good by dbIII · · Score: 1

      "Being liked by the sort of people put in charge of hiring" shouldn't be a job qualification.

      Mod this up to 11. I'm sick of the HR types who stalk everyone on Facebook instead of working coming up with lists of nice people who are not qualified for a job, then finding out that there were actually a large number of qualified applicants who didn't like the same sports as the HR people or something.

    4. Re:Good by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      better candidates

      Better in what regard? Better is a big spectrum. Often the ability to have social skills is an indicator of what would make someone "better" for a position. We see this in engineering quite a lot. In my line of work problems are rarely if ever solved by yourself and often take a multi-discipline approach. I knew someone at university who was better academically than me in every way. She could solve all problems by her self and could engineer the shit out of anything. She would not be suited in my workplace due to being such a strong introvert that she actively socially isolates her self. She's a fantastic problem solver who would be unable to solve any problem in my line of work.

      Now that said there are many jobs that would suit her well. Just don't discount hiring based on social skills as an indication of a poor metric for a job.

    5. Re:Good by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 1

      Passing over better candidates in favor of people with autism is just as flawed. I applaud the general idea behind this, i.e. "Maybe we should look more carefully at different qualities that make people successful in different jobs. And perhaps that requires a different hiring strategy and management approach". But I can easily see this being carried out in the sloppy, lazy, half arsed manner that is so typical for HR. "Autists make good coders (according to Gartner or whatever), let's hire some of them". Or worse: "Statistically, a lot of good coders score high on the autism scale, so let's factor that in". It's called Human Resources but they like to turn everything into metrics, policy, and procedure. And my guess is that this policy will be dropped by the wayside as soon as middle management figures out that autists actually do need a very different management style and career path, one that doesn't fit their "best practises".

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    6. Re:Good by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 1

      If you're having to hire people through HR, here's a tip: check their filters. At one point I was doing technical interviews with job candidates who passed whatever filter HR applied, and I got access to the "reject bin" as well. In some cases I queried HR about those rejects, e.g. I saw a pretty good match who got rejected because he had no certificate for Agile (as a team member, not a scrum master or anything like that). Checking HR filters also means being very careful when specifying must-haves or nice-to-haves for a job opening: each of those can, by themselves, turn into a reason to reject a candidate. Don't be tempted to add a bunch of criteria to the list if they are not essential to the job or to functioning in the organisation.

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    7. Re:Good by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      I have a suspicion the main role of the social media screen is to eliminate people who might reflect badly on the company image or get caught up in scandals. If the employee appears to have very strong religious views, or uncomfortably fixated on some cartoon fandom, or posts about their discovery that the chemtrails are made of vaccines, then they can be passed over in favor of a nice, safe, boring candidate.

  8. Re:"neurodiverse" WTF? by NoNonAlphaCharsHere · · Score: 1

    Thanks, Donald. You might want to get back to your debate prep now.

  9. Lot's of Spectrum Folks Here in The Valley by BrendaEM · · Score: 1

    Who would want to code while they could be out socializing?

    Aspie people made this Valley.

    --
    https://www.youtube.com/c/BrendaEM
    1. Re:Lot's of Spectrum Folks Here in The Valley by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

      Who would want to code while they could be out socializing?

      Aspie people made this Valley.

      Redmond is a valley? It seems to be missing a side.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    2. Re:Lot's of Spectrum Folks Here in The Valley by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      Redmond is a valley? It seems to be missing a side.

      OP probably meant Silicon Valley. Without Intel to provide processors, Microsoft would be missing a side.

    3. Re:Lot's of Spectrum Folks Here in The Valley by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      Oh, Intel. We're halfway in between in Oregon. We left the marketing and hr in Santa Clara.

      I don't think that was the case in 1975 when Microsoft BASIC came out for the Altair 8080 based on the Intel 8080 processor.

    4. Re:Lot's of Spectrum Folks Here in The Valley by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      I stand corrected, smart ass. :P

    5. Re:Lot's of Spectrum Folks Here in The Valley by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

      Oh, Intel. We're halfway in between in Oregon. We left the marketing and hr in Santa Clara.

      I don't think that was the case in 1975 when Microsoft BASIC came out for the Altair 8080 based on the Intel 8080 processor.

      Right, but it was a bit basic.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
  10. Re:There's a good idea with bad consequences by MightyMartian · · Score: 2

    You seem to be describing sociopaths, not autistic people.

    --
    The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
  11. Devil is in the details by ErichTheRed · · Score: 3, Insightful

    For whatever reasons they're doing this, it seems like a good idea. I'm in the systems integration world, so I don't write software per se. However, I do a lot of "glue scripting" and automation work, and work with lots of developers getting their creations to function in the real world. Our chosen field of work is _definitely_ suited for autism spectrum folks...doing it right requires intense focus and literal thinking. For Microsoft, it seems like they would win on a couple fronts...they get kudos for hiring the disabled [1] and they get a workforce who is happy to work untold hours that "normals" wouldn't be able to.

    It does sound like a plan hatched by some evil HR VP though. A bunch of normal execs tour the back buildings at Microsoft, see the more autistic of the bunch basically living in their offices, and conclude that hiring more of these will keep productivity high. It could definitely devolve into a sweatshop quickly. I wouldn't classify myself as ASD, but I'm definitely introverted. i can deal with normal people, but don't like to, as in it doesn't give me pleasure but I'll avoid it if given the choice. Fortunately I've found workplaces that let me have a healthy mix of socialization and independent work. I wouldn't thrive in a startup "brogrammer" environment as an example. If Microsoft encourages an adaptive workplace, that's a good thing in my mind. All companies need a healthy mix of cocaine-fueled salesmen and caffeine-fueled worker bees. Giving those worker bees what they need to be productive (offices, privacy, etc) is key.

    [1] Yes, I'm aware that ASD being classified as a disability is very controversial. But as the number of technical jobs dry up in the First World, I can see it becoming a fully protected disability. When the entire employed world is extroverted project managers and executives, us introverts are going to be in for a world of pain.

    1. Re:Devil is in the details by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Wind back a couple of decades and these people would not be classified as Autistic. It's seen as a disability for historical reasons from when high functioning people were not on the list

    2. Re:Devil is in the details by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      It's more of a mixed bag. It grants greater-than-average ability in some areas, but crippling impairment in others.

  12. It's still discrimination by mark-t · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Favoring a particular demographic because they have a particular disability is still discrimination. If it's against the law to discriminate against someone because of a disability, it should not matter whether they actually have that disability or not.... one should not be using said disability as a basis for discrimination, period.

    --
    File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
    1. Re:It's still discrimination by raftpeople · · Score: 3, Funny

      The worst is the NBA, they target all of those tall people. Discrimination at it's worst.

    2. Re:It's still discrimination by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      There is an exception to most non-discrimination laws though: If the disability impairs someone's ability to do the job. It's allowable to refuse to hire a blind person to handle quality inspection at a print shop.

      This is a rare case of the opposite: A situation where the disability is an advantage. The only other one I can think of in recent history was a company mentioned on slashdot years ago using sociopaths to process abusive content reports, as they could spend months looking at pictures of abuse and violence, classifying them all objectively according to the rules given and not being emotionally affected.

    3. Re:It's still discrimination by mark-t · · Score: 1

      Obviously, but the basis for disqualification is (our should be) actually only based on their ability to do the job, and it may only happen to be the case that a disability impacts ability to perform the tasks that the job requires. Autism may or may not make a person a better software engineer (I suspect it does, but I won't try to make an argument here for it), but even if it did, using that disability as a basis for discrimination to prefer those people in such positions rather than only on their actual ability as a software engineer is just as unfair to people who are neurotypical as discriminating against them is to those with autism.

      --
      File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
    4. Re: It's still discrimination by bestweasel · · Score: 1

      Apostrophe abuse at it's worst.

    5. Re:It's still discrimination by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Exactly what do you mean by "disability"? There are things I can't do, sure, and the same applies to you. I can focus on things very well (a little too well sometimes; I had to learn to compensate with that). The things I have a lot of trouble with aren't that important in my job, since I've learned (not as easily as some) how to get along with people and communicate with them.

      If you gave me a magic wand that I could wave to cure my depression, I'd wave it without a second thought. Give me one to make me not ASD, and I'd have to really think what it would do to me.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    6. Re:It's still discrimination by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      That's a very good question, and I don't have a very good answer. The ASD has caused me problems, but nowhere near the pain the depression has. Also, I've been undepressed in my lifetime and still me, while I've never been not ASD, so I don't know what that would entail.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  13. Fine with me... by freeze128 · · Score: 2

    It's fine that Microsoft wants to start hiring more autistic programmers.... Just as long as they hire them from INSIDE the U.S.

    1. Re:Fine with me... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

      It's fine that Microsoft wants to start hiring more autistic programmers.... Just as long as they hire them from INSIDE the U.S.

      55% of Microsoft's sales are international. Global companies grow globally. Get over it.

    2. Re:Fine with me... by Calydor · · Score: 1

      So they're hiring autists, who generally have trouble communicating with other people, to do sales?

      How much of Microsoft's programming is done internationally, and how much in the US where they have their headquarters?

      --
      -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
    3. Re:Fine with me... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Kudos to them, they are trying to understand their user base....

  14. Re:There's a good idea with bad consequences by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

    Sociopaths do better in management than coding.

    --
    “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
  15. A wise change of strategy by Stormwatch · · Score: 4, Funny

    Judging by Windows 10, it seems the idea of hiring coders with Down syndrome didn't work too well.

    --
    Circumcision is child abuse.
    1. Re:A wise change of strategy by iampiti · · Score: 1

      I know you're just trying to be funny but if anyone has a mental disability it's the execs who ordered the coders to put that crap in Win 10

    2. Re:A wise change of strategy by technosaurus · · Score: 1

      Nope, that policy is still in effect, but only for CEO and upper management

  16. No prima donna programmers allowed... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    As someone who looked liked the poster child for mongolism (large head and slow learner), misdiagnosed as mentally retarded due to an undiagnosed hearing lost in kindergarten, and spent eight years in Special Ed classes, I can tell you exactly what quality Microsoft is looking for. It's the same quality that my Special Ed teachers prized the most when I was in class: a well-behaved idiot.

  17. I would like this for "neuro-typical" people too by davidwr · · Score: 2

    I would love to "try out" new employers for a couple of weeks before committing, without having to through a more formal temp-to-hire or contract-to-hire arrangement.

    Granted, this probably won't work for most people who already have jobs, but it would be very good for new-college hires, independent contractors looking to get back into W2 work, and people who are unemployed or who have been told they will be laid off and whose employers are willing to let them take vacation or go on unpaid leave. It might work for some professionals who are looking for a career change and who have vacation to burn.

    Now for the nitty gritty:

    I would expect to be paid and a weekly cash stipend of at least minimum wage plus enough to cover taxes for that period of time. If I was hired on permanently, I would expect to be paid my full salary retroactively. If I was out of the area, I would expect to be given per-diem to cover hotel, transportation, and food expenses during that time. If the work I did during that two weeks was something that would have cost the company more than it was paying me (including the per-diem costs) if it were done by an employee or outside contractor, I would expect to be paid accordingly. In other words, if they were using the time to get to know me and for me to get to know them, then minimum wage + expenses and taxes is fine, but if they were using it as a source of real labor, then I would expect to be paid real-labor wages.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  18. or more like cutting the QA team by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    or more like cutting the QA team and I have seen that with software from other places.

  19. They work cheaper, and... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    "Microsoft Hopes To Hire More Coders With Autism "

    They can pay them in Skittle and iced tea. And they never want breaks to like... go home and stuff.

    1. Re:They work cheaper, and... by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      What about the fat older ones with type ii diabetes?

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
  20. Autism and Downs Syndrome by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    That explains the Metro UI demographic.

  21. Re:Wait! Don't tell them... by Gavagai80 · · Score: 1

    To prefer an asylum to prison one has to actually be insane, so I think he effectively demonstrated his insanity and belongs there.

    --
    This space intentionally left blank
  22. That explains a lot... by Grumpinuts · · Score: 1

    "The German software firm SAP, among a handful of others, have similar programs"

    Thanks. I wish I'd realised that the one time I had contact with that particular company. Explains an awful lot.

  23. Software is written by Max_W · · Score: 1

    as a novel, as a poem, song, etc. As soon as Bill Gates stopped working on Windows, it became what it is now.

    My Ethernet card stops working periodically as soon as I installed Windows 10. And I cannot find a solution, no matter what I try. Such things would have never happened when he worked there. Bill Gates would have thrown papers in the developer responsible for this bug.

    I will have to install Ubuntu with a dual boot, as I still sometimes need Windows for some applications.

    1. Re:Software is written by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      You think that's bad?

      Windows 10 cannot do link teaming. No LDAP. Even if you have drivers that support it. It's a limitation built into the kernel.

      Windows Server 2012 has no problem, even though it's almost exactly the same kernel. The limitation is artificial: A little thing that Microsoft threw in to discourage people from using a Windows 10 computer as a server, and so avoiding the need to purchase the more expensive Windows Server licence.

    2. Re:Software is written by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      My wife's computer has started requesting to reboot to finish installing an update. But once you reboot, it claims it still needs to reboot to finish installing the update.

      I've tried many different things to fix this, but now think her computer might have tried upgrading to Windows 10 (without us giving the Ok) and gotten stuck somewhere along the line. To make things more annoying, it'll often prompt her to remind her to reboot (like that will solve it), give her the option of postponing up to 4 hours, and then will frequently just reboot immediately after she selects 4 hours.

      I might need to just install Linux on her laptop instead.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
  24. Problem solvers by ArtemaOne · · Score: 1

    I did not realize that Pervasive Developmental Disorder had been added to the spectrum (2012) until last summer, but it explains a lot. While I was in the civilian business sector and self-employed I called myself a solutions developer. I could go into any technical situation (software, hardware, network) that I had never encountered before, and figure out a solution and correct the problem often in under an hour. These were problems that their internal IT hadn't been able to fix sometimes for weeks before they went to contracting out. The high functioning autistic mind thinks in different ways than the neuro-typical mind. It faces a lot of challenges, but the level of technical creativity *can* far surpass the neuro-typical learned ways. Before I knew that my daughter and I were autistic, a good friend of mine and I were talking about it and he described it as the neuro-typical mind running windows, where the autistic mind runs Linux. Same hardware, and you can still run Firefox, get to your email, do most of the same things, but there is an underlying fundamental difference in the way it all happens. FYI, if you're curious as to the social and verbal issues they face, look up echolalia scripting. High functioning people are able to adapt to language, but the scripting becomes far too difficult for some, leaving them mute or not wanting to interact.

  25. Re:Wait! Don't tell them... by Kenshin · · Score: 1

    Wasn't that the plot of One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest?

    --

    Does it make you happy you're so strange?

  26. Autistic people are methodical and detail-oriented by quax · · Score: 1

    "Autistic people are methodical and detail-oriented"

    Whoever wrote that clearly never met my eleven old, slightly autistic boy.

    I think SAP, who has been hiring autistic employees for a while, has a better handle on it. To quote on of their HR people:

    "If you met one autistic person, you know just one ."

  27. Re:Autistic people are methodical and detail-orien by ArtemaOne · · Score: 1

    I think the difference is that the autistic person who has become successful in overcoming his failings has tended to be methodical and observant. It isn't a guarantee, and it takes us often into 20s or far more to reach that point. It is the most common means to success for a person who is not neuro-typical to develop that way, not a natural trait.

  28. Re:Wait! Don't tell them... by Jason+Levine · · Score: 2

    As someone who has high functioning Autism, let me just say that social cues are hard for us. People on the autism spectrum do very well in absolutes. Black and white. Social rules aren't black and white. They're a confusing mass of grey. The same action that is perfectly valid in one situation is horribly wrong in another, very similar situation. Over the years, I've gotten good at faking neurotypical (not on the autism spectrum), but it can be tiring and I can miss cues. Think of it as if everyone runs Social Rules natively but those of us on the spectrum need to emulate it. Our emulators are much slower and don't handle every instance. So they can drain our system resources (leaving us needing to decompress) or crash entirely (letting us say/do something that is inappropriate).

    As far as your co-worker goes, I'd be direct with him. Not rude, mind you, but honest. Don't go for subtle (he won't pick up on that at all) but try to also not act like he's a small child (people with high functioning Autism can be very intelligent). Say something like: "Hey, this isn't a good time right now. I've got a ton of work to do. Let's talk about this later when we're both free."

    --
    My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
  29. Re:There's a good idea with bad consequences by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

    People with autism aren't "completely lacking ethical/moral boundaries." They might not pick up on social cues or realize that something they said was inappropriate, but that doesn't mean a moral failing. In fact, many people with autism have an overabundance of empathy which cripples them in social situations. They fear saying or doing anything because their lack of social knowledge means they'll likely do something to upset someone. Being alone is preferable to insulting the person, so they avoid social situations.

    Take my son, for example. He has high functioning autism/Aspergers Syndrome. We took him into a museum a few years back and they had a butterfly house. We all went in but my son was screaming about how he didn't want to go. We finally got him in and he stood like a statue by the door for a few seconds before we excused him. I went to talk with him and he revealed that he wasn't scared of the butterflies themselves (my first guess) but that they were all over the place, including the floor, and he was afraid of hurting one. His empathy for the butterflies was so high that he couldn't stand being in the room with them lest he hurt one.

    That's not "lacking ethical/moral boundaries" at all.

    --
    My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
  30. Re:Autistic people are methodical and detail-orien by quax · · Score: 1

    Thanks for sharing that. Very insightful.

  31. Re:OH fucking whaaaaa by morethanapapercert · · Score: 3, Informative
    Once again I am seeing a prejudicial and negative opinion in a member of the public based on incomplete and/or outdated information. It is true that Asperger Syndrome as a separate diagnosis was removed from the DSM-V in 2013. However, what happened wasn't removing the condition completely as being invalid. Rather; it got lumped in with the autistic spectrum. Current thinking is that Asperger's is a form of high functioning autism distinguished from other forms by the child having normal or above average language skills. At one time, the condition wasn't even heard of. It was only after many years of study by mental health professionals around the world that Dr Hans Asperger's observations and classification was accepted and added to the DSM. Merging it with autism just represents the current level of refinement in classification and understanding of the disorder. Since we know nothing of the root causes of autistic spectrum symptoms, it is quite possible that the category will get split up into new labels as we learn more. (maybe, as an example, one type of autism is found to be caused by a neurochemical imbalance while another is caused by functional changes in the neuron structures in the cognitive centres and yet another caused by changes in structure of the hindbrain.)

    Your post also reflects a common misunderstanding of the importance and proper use of the DSM. The DSM is first a method of classifying mental disorders. In this it resembles taxonomy. And as with taxonomy, having a species move from one genus or family to another doesn't mean that species doesn't exist, having a described animal move from being a distinct species to being considered a sub-species of another, better understood species doesn't invalidate the observations of the people who first described that sub-species. From there; it then acts kind of like a field guide for mental disorders for the mental health professional working in the field. The DSM is not meant to be exhaustive and it can only be as definitive as current understanding allows. This common misunderstanding tends to create a lot of hardship for people dealing with mental disorders or learning disabilities because it is often assumed by teachers, insurance companies, friends and family that if it isn't in the DSM, it isn't real.

    Finally; for what it's worth, the DSM isn't the only guide for professionals in defining a patients mental health issues. There is also the International Classification of Diseases and Related Health Problems. (the ICD) And Asperger Syndrome is still listed separately there.

    --
    I need a wheelchair van for my son. Help me get the word out. https://www.gofundme.com/wheelchair-van-for-jj
  32. Management increasingly higher up on spectrum by Theovon · · Score: 1

    What they should do is make a management hierarchy with people increasingly higher up on the spectrum so that they can translate language and cognitive styles kinda like in this Hot Fuzz scene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cun-LZvOTdw

    1. Re:Management increasingly higher up on spectrum by ArtemaOne · · Score: 1

      That's not a terrible idea really. My thoughts are not in English (or a "verbal" language at all), but I have a complicated system of echolalia scripting to where I come off as really well spoken. I don't know any other autistic people besides my daughter, but I could probably relate well to someone lower on the spectrum, with say, Asperger's, then them down to someone a little lower, etc.

  33. Steal my time by allo · · Score: 1

    Yeah, let me walk around for two weeks, before you tell me if you want to hire me. I have nothing better to do in the meantime.

  34. Social skills in MSFT by CmdrTamale · · Score: 1

    Project meetings, are they still a thing?
    If so, this could make them more lively,
    or, more likely, kill then off.
    --
    I wish I could participate in American Democracy, but I can't afford it.

  35. Re:OH fucking whaaaaa by Coren22 · · Score: 1

    Thank you for the reply. I wouldn't have been so calm or detailed about it, but felt that ACs comment couldn't go unchallenged.

    ACs comment above is much like APKs constant assertion that because I admitted I was diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome as a child, I must be brain damaged, which is utter garbage, but that is what some people think. It seems that this ignorance can only be fought with information that proves the contrary.

    --
    APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  36. Re:Talking about me again Mr. "I'm so smart"? by Coren22 · · Score: 1

    Aww, poor APK wants more attention.

    Yes, not many people out class me on IQ, and no, you are not one of them. Perhaps that is why you don't get even the basics of the arguments I am making and keep repeatedly asking for responses to the same questions already answered?

    --
    APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  37. Re:You're the one talking about me fool by Coren22 · · Score: 1

    Where did I say I disproved all your points? I have disproved a number of them, and showed you why you are wrong. You even removed one from your argument, or do you deny that?

    Or do you still think that your hosts file gets around DNS black lists?

    Even if I tell you what my IQ is like you ask, you will still deny that it is true and ask for proof. The thing is, despite your memory failures, I have repeatedly explained that I will not out my identity, no matter how many demands you make for me to do so. I will not give you proof, as the things I do are proprietary or are not for public consumption. I won't break federal law or company policy just to show up an internet blow hard like you.

    --
    APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  38. Re:You're also illiterate & a liar... apk by Coren22 · · Score: 1

    What crack are you smoking?

    You linked to a post earlier in this same string that absolutely did not say anything of the kind. Keep up the diversion. I am sure no one will notice your prior assertions that I am brain damaged because I have mild autism.

    Considering that you argued with me over what a DNSBL was, and why your hosts files would bypass them, no I don't believe that someone disproved you before me. What does it matter anyways though, as I still disproved the assertion, despite you arguing over your lack of knowledge of email systems and what a DNSBL is.

    You have 100s of your inability to understand basic computer concepts bookmarked, I know, you keep bringing them up and trying to act like I failed somehow, even though I show quite clearly where you are wrong. That isn't technical mistakes, it is mistaking your knowledge for being higher than it actually is.

    Again with the proof request? I think that is proof enough of your lack of IQ, since you still haven't provided proof of your superior intelligence, it must be false because PROOF!

    I work for a fortune 500 too, what does that have to do with the price of tea in China? Working for a company that makes lots of money doesn't make you smart or right, it just means you passed an interview. Fortune 500 companies hire many people, not always the best of the best like you try to use as an assertion. If you built a fortune 100 company, that would be impressive, but with your usual lack of proof of anything, you will probably claim you did.

    Lastly, yet again, I am not talking behind your back, you would have to take me for a complete moron to claim that. Publicly posted content, that I know you read (as you read everything I write just waiting for a mention) cannot in any sense be behind your back. I am out in the open and public, not whispering to others about you.

    --
    APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  39. Re:Coren22 here's where you said it by Coren22 · · Score: 1

    OH, OK, so you don't get sarcasm. Who is the Autistic here?

    WHO HAS THE DIM MEMORY NOW STUPID?

    Dunning–Kruger effect indeed. You keep calling me stupid, but you seem to be the one unable to understand basic concepts and keep arguing the same refuted points over and over.

    --
    APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  40. Re:Get another +5 for yourself Coren22... apk by Coren22 · · Score: 1

    I have plenty of +5 postings, and it has nothing to do with sock puppets. I actually contribute to the conversation going on, you just spam and shitpost. You will notice I still post at a +2, while you start at 0 and mostly get to a -1, this is not because of some campaign against you as you have claimed previously, but because you add nothing constructive to the conversation.

    I have proven many of your points wrong. I have never claimed that you are entirely wrong, you know that some of your points are valid, and I have never claimed otherwise, however, with the costs of memory and computing power so low, why persist in the awful overuse of the hosts file for something it was never designed to handle? The whole reason that dns was invented was because hosts files were never designed to handle over a thousand or so entries. Because of the way the hosts file is processed, it causes severe issues to use it the way you do, and you know it. You persist in using a technology that is only kept around for backwards compatibility when a better technology was invented 33 years ago to replace it.

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    APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  41. Re:Get another +5 for yourself Coren22... apk by Coren22 · · Score: 1

    So, what does any of this have to do with the conversation I was having? Why do you think that what you are saying has any relation to my comment?

    ACs comment above is much like APKs constant assertion that because I admitted I was diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome as a child, I must be brain damaged, which is utter garbage, but that is what some people think. It seems that this ignorance can only be fought with information that proves the contrary.

    You didn't disagree with it, but felt you had to come in and trash up the thread because I dared to mention your name, and gave an accurate representation of your behavior.

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    APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?