Apple Explores the Idea Of Killing Headphone Jack On the MacBook Pro (thenextweb.com)

Less than two weeks after Apple unveiled its headphone jack-less iPhone 7 and iPhone 7 Plus, the company is already exploring the idea of doing the same on its flagship computing lineup. An anonymous reader shares a report on The Next Web: Apple might be going all-in with the wireless revolution as the company is now allegedly considering killing the headphone jack on the MacBook Pro. Users are reporting that as of recently Apple has been asking them to fill in a survey about the way they use their MacBook Pro and one of the questions pertains particularly to the headphone jack. Shared by Blake A. via Twitter, the question reads "Do you ever use the headphone port on your MacBook Pro with Retina display?", suggesting Apple is exploring going jackless with its laptops in the future. Given the Cupertino company just ditched the audio jack on the iPhone 7, the change is likely to eventually come to other Apple products too -- the real question is when.Several Slashdot readers have also confirmed that they have participated in a similar survey with some noting that Apple also asked them about the removable of headphone jack on some of its other computing lineup including the iMac.

Comments

Jesus, Apple

[Anonymous Coward]

When we say your fanbois are jacking off all over your wares you weren't supposed to take it literally. wtf

I use it all the time

[Bender Unit 22]

But I must admit that I am being more and more annoyed with the Apple hardware choices. So much that I have been considering stop using Final Cut Pro and finding an alternative that can run on Windows. I guess it will be Adobe premiere pro even tough I hate their subscribtion based licenses.

Re:I use it all the time

[605dave]

I feel your pain, I really do.

FCPx has pissed me off for years. But almost everyone I've know in media production who ditches their Mac for Windows goes back pretty quickly. No matter how annoying Apple's changes are (one of my pet peeves is the Fireware/Thunderbolt saga), my guess is that your experience in Windows trying to do media will make you break out in hives. This is not just an opinion, this is years of experience working in the field.

Also, I really think we are about to get a big new FCPx. It's been waiting on AVFoundation. Just my guess.

BTW what happened to the first 21 Benders?

Re:I use it all the time

[Anonymous Coward]

That is just a selection bias on your part, and most likely a fabrication. The production houses I work at, as a professional editor, use windows and premiere. Not sure why anyone would "break out in hives". Windows is just as easy to use as OSX and offers much more user control. It's just an operating system. And there has been a mass exodus from apple hardware since the mac pro was announced. It's simply not functional in a production environment, and costs $3,000+ over an equivalent windows machine. You can't even get modern hardware options like current GPUs.

Re:I use it all the time

[leptons]

Sony Vegas Video is amazing. I quit FCP and never looked back.

Re:I use it all the time

[guises]

Apple refuses to support CUDA in favor of OpenCL.

It's not hard to see why they would do that, OpenCL is the open standard while CUDA is Nvidia's proprietary crap. "Why doesn't Apple support Glide?" you ask, well CUDA is the same thing. (That's almost literally true, Nvidia hired a lot of 3DFx employees when that company went under.)

But, all right, I'm complaining about one little thing, the rest of your point is well made. The real reason is because Apple has abandoned the idea that computers should be functional devices, rather than magic boxes which generate revenue.

Sly move, Apple. Real sly.

[Sebby]

Putting out a 'survey' to make us believe you intend to eventually actually release new updated desktop/laptop products in the 'near future'... Sly indeed!

Reason?

[nitehawk214]

Oh, I thought you wanted the jack removed because it took up too much space in the phone. Not the problem, is it? Is it because you own the perfect shitty overpriced headphones, Beats, and want to squeeze as much money out of your customers at possible?

Bluetooth pairing

[wafflemonger]

Most of the Bluetooth headphones that I have used only like to be paired to one device at a time. A lot of Mac Book users also have an iPhone that now does not have a headphone jack. You will get all the adventures of pairing your headphones each time you switch devices.

Re:Bluetooth pairing

[mridoni]

Easy, just buy a second set of headphones...

Re:Bluetooth pairing

[Dega704]

Which will then pressure said users to buy another pair of wireless headphones for each device; and Apple just happens to own the #1 wireless headphone company.

Re:Bluetooth pairing

[TFlan91]

For $160...

Re:They haven't asked me, and I do use it

[Algan]

I got the survey request in the mail, but for my imac, not for my macbook pro. I guess they're exploring removing the jack on all their products.
And the answer to that question was no, i never use that port. I use a usb headset.

This won't go over well

[LichtSpektren]

Nobody cares about the thinness of a pro laptop, they just want it to get the job done.

This might be the beginning of the end of the use of Macs in audio engineering.

Analog Hole

[Script Cat]

Got to plug that analog hole.

Re:Analog Hole

[bruce_the_loon]

Problem with that argument is that in order to so, a totally digital audio reproduction path is needed, with digital all the way to the voice coil or peizo plate in the speaker. Video can be replaced since digital LCD panels can use proprietary drivers to switch individual pixels and capturing that requires capturing the light and colour from each pixel element. Until someone can invent a non-electrially driven sound element, capturing that single electrical signal is a simple task, even if it means sacrificing a pair of Beatz (oh the Horror!!!)

Re:Analog Hole

[phayes]

Apple no longer sells DRM'ed music so what is this analog hole you claim Apple is trying to plug by removing the jack?

Apple is jumping the shark pretty hard now

[StandardCell]

There is no excuse to eliminate an audio jack from a phone, much less a Macbook. Too many complications with wireless headphones and microphones, and peripherals to add the functionality back just add to clutter for a portable device.

This isn't edgy, or brave, or futuristic. It's simply the beginning of the end for a once-innovative company who is practically trying to alienate its customer base. I really wonder if the same idiots who were in charge of the Final Cut Pro 10 transition were the same ones involved in these decisions.

Please don't...

[cayenne8]

Geez, I actually use my MBP as my desktop for about 98% of the time, and it is hooked to my desktop speakers for listening to....

I'm supposed to fscking do THAT wireless too now?!?!

WFT....?

Re:Please don't...

[dysmal]

I'm sure for $59.99 they'll have something that you can use to bridge the technology gap.

(Not trolling... I'm a Macbook Pro user myself and in the same boat as you)

Re:Please don't...

[lucm]

Geez, I actually use my MBP as my desktop for about 98% of the time

You're doing it wrong.

You're supposed to have an iMac for your desktop, a Macbook for Starbucks and/or shared startup workspace, an iPhone to order Ubers and Airbnbs, and an iPad to read Salon in the bathroom.

Use the Apple ecosystem as it was designed (which includes not complaining). If you can't afford it, your life priorities are wrong; surrender your iDevice and join the barbarians who don't "get" it.

Re:Please don't...

[Coisiche]

I suspect shafting their own customer base certainly does take some courage.

Not to Apple it doesn't. This comment thread will be full of statements from the Apple customer base with proclamations ranging from "it's not at all inconvenient" to "it's actually a good thing".

One day Apple might actually go to far in shafting their customer base, but today is not that day.

Re:Please don't...

[h4ck7h3p14n37]

We need to find this Courage person at Apple and kick his ass.

Re:Please don't...

[BronsCon]

Exactly. And even for those who don't care about audio quality, for whom bluetooth is more than adequate for listening to music (and I'll admit I do love my Apt-X enabled bluetooth headset for listening on the go, in noisy environments where it doesn't matter anyway, especially when working on mechanical items where wires can be a hazard), the delay is killer for gaming and makes video unwatchable. Wired headphones still have their place where audio timing matters.

Re:Use it almost daily.

[clifyt]

Yup. So do I.

I use the interfaces when I need to get multiple streams of audio INTO the machine or if I need fast / precise latency on the way out (a few of mine will do internal monitor mixing so I have no computer based delay while playing instruments)...but 99% of the time? I'm still plugged directly into the headphone port. Its convenient and it isn't plugged 10 feet away in a rack that I have to stand in front of.

I have a feeling most audio professionals still use this more often than not. If they move to bluetooth...there is no fucking way I can deal with the latency even when just doing simple mixes.

Re:This wouldn't be a big deal in a different worl

[cdrudge]

They have a huge lock on the media market with the iTunes store

I'm an Android guy and haven't used iTunes in years but do they really have a LOCK on the media market? Is there really that much exclusive media that's only available in iTunes?

Options

[sjbe]

Geez, I actually use my MBP as my desktop for about 98% of the time, and it is hooked to my desktop speakers for listening to.... I'm supposed to fscking do THAT wireless too now?!?!

Only if you want to. You could go USB or thunderbolt pretty easily. I connect my laptops to a USB 3.0 docking station which has a 3.5mm jack built in when I'm using them at my desk. So that's a perfectly viable option when using a laptop as an ersatz desktop PC. Heck you're probably going to hook up a USB hub or peripherals anyway so why not just include the 3.5mm jack there? I could see it being annoying to not have it when you are traveling with a laptop but the arguments against removing it at the desk are pretty weak.

That said on a real desktop PC (Mac) I don't really see a good argument for removing the 3.5mm jack at this time. Neither space, power or cost are constraints and there is no advantage to the user in removing it unless you get something in return. None of those things apply to desktop PCs. I can at least see the argument on a smartphone whether or not I agree with it but those arguments don't apply to desktop machines.

Re:Options

[oh_my_080980980]

That's right Zippy, one size fits all. Paradigm shift, from consumer is always right, to consumer will accept whatever we fucking give them.

Ack, NO!!!

[RogueWarrior65]

You want a real suggestion? Bring back a 17" model. That'd be great, thanks.

Accessibility implications?

[mark-t]

Some people require headphones to use a device, and bluetooth may not always be an option. Removing the jack removes any ability to charge it while using headphones that are attached to its single USB-C port.

It's the exact same problem with the iPhone 7 and its single lightning port. Apple clearly doesn't have a fucking clue what it's doing anymore. They are so desperate to try and be industry leaders again that they are trying random shit that nobody seriously wants or will find useful as an effort to "think outside of the box", and it's not a good thing. For them or their customers.

Re:Accessibility implications?

[swb]

It would be awesome if somebody discovered that removing the headphone jack was a violation of the ADA because it placed an undue burden on handicapped people, and Apple was forced to add the jack back in.

I know, they provide a dongle which adds that functionality back in, and nobody is forced to choose an Apple device without a headphone jack, so it would never hold water, but it'd be hilarious if they had to not only pay taxes but also offer a model with a headphone jack.

DRM EVERYWHERE

[PopeRatzo]

The 3.5mm jack is nothing but a conduit for your stolen media, so suck it up. And you there with the 5000 CD collection. Don't be a commie and buy all that music again in iTunes, willya?

Re:DRM EVERYWHERE

[PopeRatzo]

Apple doesn't sell DRM protected music anymore (and hastened it's demise).

That's not strictly true.

But let's falsely pretend that Apple is only off to make a buck off people and every decision they make is to lock people down with DRM and make money off them.

You've got to be joking. Why do you think Apple exists? Do you believe they're the fucking United Way? OF COURSE THEY'RE ONLY IN IT TO MAKE A BUCK OFF PEOPLE, YOU GOOFBALL.

Proves the lie

[Holi]

All this does is show the world that Apple was lying through their teeth when they said it was about making room for more battery. Not sure what space they are going to save in the iMac or the Mac Pro.

Re:Apple's suicide

[blackomegax]

Those were all technologies that were in some way vastly superseded in quality or functionality. The standard audio jack is currently extremely high quality (yay push-pull transistors) and universally standard and will remain so, outside of the apple-verse, for decades to come.

Re:So much for being useful for music

[radish]

To be honest the headphone jack on those machines is pretty crappy anyway. If you're serious about audio you're already using an offboard USB DAC.

I use it more than any port except the charger

[j2.718ff]

I own a (older) Macbook Air, an Android phone, and a Sandisk mp3 player. I use the same pair of earphones interchangeably between these devices. (Actually, I have a few pairs for different environments.) I've never needed any kind of special dongle (unless you count the charger, though both my phone and mp3 player charge via micro USB). I really like my Macbook, but if they keep pulling crap like this, my next laptop won't be made by Apple.

Customers are routinely wrong

[sjbe]

That's right Zippy, one size fits all

Sometimes it does. There are very good reasons why we have standardized interfaces for all sorts of things. The only time to have a specialty single purpose interface is if there are no viable alternative options. Fortunately for hipsters who want to be different just to make a point there are plenty of other options for headphone jacks out there besides the offerings from Apple. If Apple's offerings don't fit your needs, do what I did and buy something else for whatever application you are working on. Trust me, nobody will mind.

Paradigm shift, from consumer is always right, to consumer will accept whatever we fucking give them.

Anyone who thinks the customer is always right has never had to deal with an actual customer. Customers are wrong all the frickin' time. Catering excessively to customers who are wrong is a great way to go bankrupt. Henry Ford put it best when he said "If I asked my customers what they wanted they would have said 'a faster horse'".

Re:Customers are routinely wrong

[BronsCon]

No, the customer is always right. If they're not paying you, they're not a customer, so if you can't bill them for what they want (and again for what they really wanted), they're no a customer.

Example:

When I used to work in a convenience store, a guy came in who I'd never seen before, demanding a free soda because "the cups cost a nickle and the soda costs two cents, why do you care? It's good customer service." My response was plainly "And I'd happily do it for a good customer, but you've never spent a cent here and aren't intending to make a purchase, so you're not a customer at all." He, then, decided to walk over and grab a pack of gum; meanwhile, I rang up the customer behind him, one of my regulars, and gave him a free soda just to make a point. The original "customer" comes back with a pack of gum and expects that his one-time purchase will entitle him to a free soda, an expectation which was met with the following: "Once I've seen you in here a few times and you happen to be next in line behind someone looking for a handout, we'll talk."

He got the message. He also became a regular and would hang out when I was on a night shift to keep me company, since they often had me working alone late at night. Yes, that did net him many a free soda, but snacks were always on him.

And this anecdote, which is more relevant to tech:

I had a client insist that a program I developed for them work one way, while their business logic was entirely different. I pointed out the discrepancy once and left the decision to them. They chose to go ahead as originally planned. I warned them that, should their decision prove to be incorrect, they'd still have to pay for my work, as well as any work necessary (which I informed them would likely be more than the original project) to correct it. They agreed, which made them a customer for both the original project and the fix, which made them right.

And right they were. I did want to implement it the way they insisted. And I did want to fix it. The fix cost twice as much as the original work; who would argue with a customer wanting to triple their billable hours?

Now, had they not agreed, up-front, to the potential cost of correcting the issue I brought to their attention should the project go forward as planned, the likelihood of them not paying at all would have shot through the roof and they'd have been neither customers nor right.

Worn headphone jack or cable or connector

[fyngyrz]

What? Things wear out? What??? UNPOSSIBLE!

Plus, I have news for you: A middling quality headphone jack is of far higher quality and average lifetime than any USB jack ever manufactured. A truly high quality headphone jack is darned near bulletproof. USB jacks and connectors and cables are connectivity and structural strength fails from word one. Particularly the smaller types. Plus, when the user's USB jack wears out sooner because they've regularly been jamming headphones into it and then putting various stresses on the USB cable, as well as plugging in the charging cord every day or so, they won't just lose the ability to use wired headphones. They'll lose the ability to charge their phone. Because Apple's still far behind the crowd on wireless charging. Me, I just put my phone on the cradle and it charges, no physical connection to the phone required. I've owned my phone for months now and have yet to plug anything into the stinking USB jack. So it isn't broken. Yet. But anyway.

If you don't want wires, bluetooth is already there. Bingo, no connection, no wear and tear. If anything wears out, it'll almost certainly be your relatively less expensive headphones / earbuds. If you do want wires (and frankly, an analog connection via the headphone jack will provide better quality audio), the headphone jack is a far more reliable choice than any USB jack ever conceived. And your phone will almost certainly last longer, too. Say... you don't think Apple might have been tucking a little planned obsolescence in there, do you? No, couldn't be!

Nah, Apple's just being an idiot about this. But hey, they thought a trashcan and a bunch of desk warts was "professional", so at least they're being consistent in their blundering along the path of abject stupidity.

Re:Apple's suicide

[leptons]

I imagine Apple will also be removing the headphone jack from the iPod. That will be hilarious.

Re:Interference

[tepples]

Has Apple solved the problem of wireless interference?

Not perfectly solved, but spread spectrum and multiple-access schemes have made the problem less noticeable. An actual solution would involve beamforming to make the transmission and reception more strongly directional.

But what would the adapter connect to?

[dfm3]

Maybe they could get away with this on the base Macbook or Macbook Air, but it's just asinine to remove the 35mm jack from a Pro device. Unlike phones, these are widely used for content production and A/V presentation in venues like concerts, schools and churches. Do they really expect these users to hook up an adapter to use Bluetooth, USB, or thunderbolt for audio out to professional equipment? You might not notice any reduction in sound quality while using bluetooth or a dongle to listen to music in your car, but you WILL notice it when amplified on a speaker system in a venue that seats 1000 people.

Re:But what would the adapter connect to?

[Grishnakh]

Do they really expect these users to hook up an adapter to use Bluetooth, USB, or thunderbolt for audio out to professional equipment?

If they want to keep using Apple equipment, then yes.

Who do these users think they are anyway? Why do they think Apple gives two shits about their petty concerns? This move by Apple is smart: they can save money by eliminating parts, thus improving profit margins, and then they can make even more money by selling massively overpriced adapters (or Lightning licenses). How is this not a good move on their part?

Just watch, all these "Pro" users are going to bitch and complain about this, and then they're going to run out and spend a fortune on a new MacBook Pro and a horribly overpriced adapter.

Nothing wrong with separating fools from their money.

Re: But what would the adapter connect to?

[Darinbob]

It's a standard, following standards is a good idea. It's not like the MacBook Pro is too thin for the headphone jack, unlike the Macbook Air. Make it any thinner and the thing will bend under its own weight.

Re:But what would the adapter connect to?

[BronsCon]

3.5mm (AKA 1/8") comes in TS, TRS, and TRRS variants, just like 1/4" (AKA 6mm); all three formats are also made in a 1/16" size (AKA 2.5mm).

TS is actually the more common 1/4" on a lot of consoles; two lines, one for the left channel and one for the right; TRS usually only exists on consoles as a headphone output. One reason for this is that, quite often, a stereo pair is actually split into two monaural channels to record, for example, two different instruments, two different vocal tracks, or one person's separate vocal and instrument track, none of which typically need to be recorded in stereo (save for a very few instruments, any stereo effect is typically added in mixing). We don't see a bunch of monaural inputs on mixers because there is also often the requirement for a stereo pair, but we do see those stereo inputs split out into two monaural jacks for the above reason.

I've seen a 1/4" TRRS in the wild, commonly used on broadcast headsets. Hell, I've even seen TRRRS connectors, for quadraphonic audio, in both larger sizes.

Every single high-end pair of headphones, as well as most low-end "studio-style" headphones and headsets, includes an adapter from 1/4" TRS to 1/8" TRS; whether the adapter is 1/4" > 1/8" or 1/8" > 1/4" will depend on whether the headphones ship with a 1/4" or 1/8" TRS plug, but the adapter will be there. It is the single most common audio adapter in the world. TS adapters of this type will be somewhat less common in home audio, but you are virtually guaranteed to find a box, bin, basket, or drawer-full of the things sitting on or near any mixing console. TRRS and TRRRS adapters that go from 1/4" to 1/8" are going to be less common, but the need for them is virtually nonexistent, so that's fine; 1/8" to 1/16" TS, TRS, and TRRS adapters are also fairly common, one or more of them typically being included with equipment that utilizes 1/16" jacks. I'm sure there's a 1/16" TRRRS out there somewhere as well, but I've never heard of such a beast.

Here's a breakdown for you:
TS - Tip/Sleeve - Carries one monaural audio signal. Common in 1/4", 1/8", and 1/16". Adapters available between all sizes, commonly found for 1/4" to/from 1/8" and 1/8" to/from 1/16".
TRS - Tip/Ring/Sleeve - Carries one stereo or two monaural audio signals. Common in 1/4", 1/8", and 1/16". Adapters available between all sizes, commonly found for 1/4" to/from 1/8" and 1/8" to/from 1/16".
TRRS - Tip/Ring/Ring/Sleeve - Carries one stereo and one monaural audio signal, or three monaural audio signals. Commonly used in headsets to provide stereo audio and a monaural microphone. Common in 1/8" and 1/16". Adapters available between all sizes, commonly found for 1/8" to/from 1/16".
TRRRS - Tip/Ring/Ring/Ring/Sleeve - Carries one quadraphonic audio signal, two stereo audio signals, one stereo and two monaural audio signals, or four monaural audio signals. Commonly used on quadraphonic headphones and stereo headsets providing a stereo microphone. Uncommon in all sizes, available in 1/4" and 1/8". Adapters available for 1/4" to/from 1/8".

Re:But what would the adapter connect to?

[tripleevenfall]

Apple owns Beats now. The dots are not especially hard to connect.

Re:But what would the adapter connect to?

[BronsCon]

No, the industries which most commonly use these plugs have just simplified the means of referring to them The 2.5mm and 3.5mm variants are truly 2.5mm and 3.5mm, with 1/16" and 1/8" being the closest common imperial measurements to those metric sizes. The 1/4" variant is truly 1/4", which is 6.4mm, but we simplify it to 6mm because there isn't another 6.x mm size we need to differentiate.

So, if you're more comfortable with metric, you have 2.5mm, 3.5mm, and 6mm, while everyone else has 1/16", 1/8", and 1/4", and it's all been simplified to the point that both groups can understand each other when asking for a certain size in either system of measurement.

wireless networking is not perfectly fine

[Joe_Dragon]

wireless networking is not perfectly fine for.

* High security areas
* Areas where walls block wifi
* Areas With lot's of Congestion
* Areas with overloaded AP's