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Elon Musk Scales Up His Ambitions, Considering Going 'Well Beyond' Mars (arstechnica.com)
An anonymous reader writes: For most of its 14-year existence, SpaceX has focused on designing and developing the hardware that will lead to its ultimate goal: colonizing Mars. These plans have remained largely secret from the general public, as company founder Elon Musk has dropped only the barest of hints. But that is expected to change on Sept. 27, during a session at the International Astronautical Congress, when Musk details some of these plans for the first time in a public forum. However, on the eve of the meeting, Musk dropped a surprise on Twitter. The workhorse spacecraft that will carry approximately 100 tons of cargo or 100 people to the surface of Mars, which until now has been popularly known as the Mars Colonial Transporter, can't be called that, Musk said. "Turns out MCT can go well beyond Mars, so will need a new name..." he tweeted on Friday evening. By Saturday evening he had a new name dubbing the spacecraft the "Interplanetary Transport System," or ITS. Mars, it turns out, isn't the solar system's only marginally habitable world for would-be new world colonists. The Moon, Venus, the asteroid Ceres, and outer Solar System moons Titan and Callisto all have some advantages that could allow for colonies to subsist. However, Mars has generally been the preferred destination -- due to its relative proximity to Earth, a thin atmosphere, and sources of water ice. Musk now seems to be suggesting that some of these more distant destinations, especially moons around Jupiter and Saturn, might be reachable with the Interplanetary Transport System.
ITS...
The ELF = Explodes on Launchpad in Florida
And he delivers real stuff that (mostly) works.
This is the kind of person we need as POTUS, not a choice between a couple of cynical, under-performing outrageous liars.
Yes, because it makes so much sense to start talking about colonizing Titan when we have not shown the ability or determination to colonize even the closest viable object.
Lunar colonization makes much more sense as a starting point than Martian colonization, but that isn't compelling enough to get funding. Now that people are getting bored of Mars (without even getting there to discover a whole new level of boredom), he needs to buff his bluff to maintain any level of interest.
He must be stopped at all costs!
I bet Musk loves the fictional Weyland-Yutani.
I'm a really big fan of SpaceX and a lot of the other things that Musk is doing. He's helping solve global warming with Tesla and SolarCity not just with his own companies but by pushing other companies to follow. The Falcon 9 is as of right now the cheapest rocket for medium sized payloads even without reuse (they aren't launching by themselves the very small payloads, and until the Falcon Heavy is setup they won't have the ability to launch the largest satellites). That number will go down even further if/when reuse is successful (and honestly I was very skeptical initially about reuse when they were just starting with the Falcon 1). However, this sort of statement worries me a lot, especially in the context of the recent AMOS-6 disaster where they lost a rocket on the ground and destroyed the satellite in the process http://spacenews.com/analysis-disaster-on-the-launchpad-implications-for-spacex-and-the-industry/. We need to colonize other worlds, simply as a backup plan for serious disasters on Earth, but it would seem a lot better if they focused on systems just for Mars and didn't jump out so far ahead as to aim at other bodies (as cool as that is). I worry that they are proceeding too fast, and that if they fail, it may not be for a very long time until anyone else tries anything similar.
Your rocket just blew up before even starting its engines and you are ready to conquer the universe! Elon Musk is a complete idiot. Unfortunately for humanity he is a moron with lots of money who is ready to do lots of damage. Beware of rich fools! You will be the one in the ship when it goes kaboom, not him, remember that! Delusional people are at worst when they get in power and become bosses!
While I'm totally on board with trying to visit other parts of our solar system, here's the bit I don't quite get. Who exactly is going to pay for these trips to Mars or wherever else? Despite their general success I don't see SpaceX being able to fund it themselves any time soon and there is no obvious economic return from such a trip given that at this point it is purely exploratory in nature. The only institution with enough money and no need for a profit is the government so how does he propose to get the government to pay for it OR where is the ROI on the trip for any would be private investors?
I don't ask this question to be snarky but it's a pretty important question and I think it's being glossed over at this point. I don't have any problem with tax dollars being used for this kind of exploration but some parts of our congress are pretty against raising the taxes that would be necessary to pay for a trip like this. NASA doesn't have the budget at this point nor do they have a congressional mandate to support what Mr. Musk is proposing. And I just don't see private sponsors with deep enough pockets to fund the trip stepping up to the plate.
without having it blow up during a test
at this point i have more faith in NASA and Blue Origin without all the stupid Elon Musk hype how he's already planning for warp speed or some worldwide pod transport but he's just so busy and doesn't have the time to work out the details
First, Mars, then Proxima Centauri (I heard the weather is nice there, at this time of year) ...or wherever.
Somewhere in between, if time allows, I'm sure a lot of people are interested to see a working Hyperloop.
By the way. How comes it's "March" for the month, but "Mars" for the planet and the god ?
Irrelevant news and morons using moderation to mod down what they disagree on. 2018 resolution: so long.
He does nothing for global warming as Tesla just moves the tailpipe of that "electric" car back to the coal fire or gas electric plant. FAIL. His rockets (along with Bezos and Branson's space junk) are utter death traps and I would take a Soyuz over their shit any day of the week
BUT THE REAL issue is where is the cure for cancer? Where is the FUSION POWER? Where is clean energy production? How do we care and feed for 7 billion people? These problems should come before billionaires playing model rockets.
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How about we get to Mars and get the Model 3 out in 2018 and then we'll talk stretch goals?
The entire basis of this article is a few tweets, I wouldn't equate a few random comments, even from the head of a number of related companies as a full fledged ambition. Though even if the MCT/ITS is primarily intended for Mars transit (assuming its ever built) its nice to think that they're considering other destinations as well in the planning stages. One of the larger problems historically in the space industry is that too many craft/satellites/rockets are designed for a very narrow, often single use, purpose. That failing is on its way out in the launch industry, is possibly being changed in the satellite industry but still exists pretty heavily in the science probe area.
Radiation, anyone? Have wondered about it since the 60's. Continue to here very little (not nothing) about it in the teens.
We've yet to even land a human being on Mars, and Musk is talking about how his spacecraft will take people well beyond Mars -- to where, one of Jupiter's moons? That's nearly a two-year journey, and we haven't even figured out how to return people to Earth from Mars... so basically it's a suicide mission.
Let's take one step at a time, especially considering that one of Musk's rockets just reminded us that space travel is hard.
I hope he's developing some parallel plans. First, how to head off the Belter/Earth war? The Belter fringe made a real mess dropping some rocks into Earth's gravity well.
What's his plan for spin-stabilizing Ceres?
All targets suggested by the Kerbal Space Program to be sure. After all Earth orbit is halfway to anywhere.
I was wrong about Space Nutters. I really apologize. I now realize I was wrong when I said that you guys aren't going to Mars. It seems that Mars is easily reachable, and their current Mars spaceship has over-performed and is capable of going BEYOND Mars. This is really exciting because we now know we will be able to populate the galaxy.
It seems logical if one vehicle can make it to Mars then, unlike airplanes, it is possible to link a train of such vehicles together and move on across even more vast distances. No air resistances changes how difficult such a challenge would be.
If you can return a rocket stage to earth and land then it would seem possible to use it a few times at good profit and then instead of returning it to earth work out a way to park it in orbit for later use in a wagon train type space mission.
If the emdrive thrust turns out to work then things go even faster if you have an affordable way to get to orbit in the first place.
"Hey kids! Look over there.
No not on Tesla's finances or on safety concerns about the stuff we're making now.
Look over there to my new pie-in-the-sky idea."
And when the whole Musk empire finally goes bankrupt it will all have been a big conspiracy against progress.
Nothing to do with big ideas bumping against harsh reality.
Space Y
mental illness. Space Nutter Musk has lost all touch with reality.
What exactly does 'solving global warming' mean?
THE REAL issue is where is the cure for cancer? Where is the FUSION POWER? Where is clean energy production? How do we care and feed for 7 billion people?
That argument is completely moronic. There are endless numbers of problems yet to be solved. You solve the ones that you have the means and ability to solve and hope others work on the rest. You don't have to pick one and all the others can bugger off. The notion that we shouldn't try to go to space because we haven't solved every conceivable problem on Earth is idiotic and short sighted. Trying to go to space HAS solved a lot of terrestrial problems. The value of satellites alone justifies everything we've done in space 100 fold and those same satellites help to some degree with every single problem you just mentioned. Most estimates of the value of the space program indicate it has in the worst possible case somewhere between a 3-8X return on every dollar spent. The only shocking thing is that we are too short sighted to spend more on the space program and related research.
And asking Elon Musk "where is clean energy production" is a pretty stupid question given the particular ventures he's involved in.
These problems should come before billionaires playing model rockets.
"Playing model rockets"? Weird, last I checked SpaceX was a real business carrying real cargo and doing something genuinely useful in driving down the cost to orbit. What have you done with your life that was anywhere close to as valuable to the human race?
Ceres is large enough to have marginal gravity, but more importantly, it's a giant ball of ice. Since it only has marginal gravity, less than that of the Moon even, makes it very easy to get on and off of it with hardly any fuel. In fact, even though it's past the orbit of Mars, the fuel budget to do a manned trip (and safe return) is only 20% more than that of a moon mission. Mainly due to the tiny tiny gravity well.
moox. for a new generation.
The argument that there's a high probability we live in a simulation has been seriously discussed by philosophers such as Nick Bostrom.
Just because some people have "seriously discussed" an idea doesn't make the idea a credible one. The whole "we are in a simulation" is just a modern repackaging of philosophical questions that have been discussed in some cases literally for centuries.
I disagree with the argument but it isn't by itself a wacky idea or one we should dismiss out of hand.
Oh it's a pretty wacky idea but to date the evidence to support it is for all practical purposes nonexistent. Find a way to make the concept falsifiable and then it will become worth discussing. As it stands it is as much a waste of time as wondering if god exists.
What exactly does 'solving global warming' mean?
NAZI space mirrors to block out the Sun
Mr Burns is philanthropist. You little people are just too stupid to understand his genius.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
But you can see here why Musk is a successful and important tech entrepreneur. He didn't set out to make an electric car because it made economic or technical sense; he set out to do that because he wanted one.
Which is to some degree a load of crap. Yes I know he has claimed that and for the most part I think that claim is largely nonsense. People set out to do all sorts of things but they don't actually happen unless there is an actual path to success. You'll notice that Elon Musk has yet to start a company that is truly clean sheet. People built financial software before he did. People built rockets before he did. People built electric cars before he did. He was in a position to improve on what had come before but make no mistake that none of his businesses were started without a path to profitability. He knew from day one that it was feasible to build an electric car. What he didn't know was whether he could build a viable electric car business. If all he wanted was an electric car he could have done that in his garage in his spare time.
Pure engineers and MBA types don't advance the state of technology.
Some do, most don't. You could say that about every single profession out there. Even among those who are trying to advance technology most fail at it. The biggest reason is that the key to success in most cases is being able to manage people and get them to do something collectively. Advancing human knowledge is rarely a solo endeavor so your argument that particular types of individuals often fail is a flawed argument because you could say that about most people in most professions most of the time and it would be equally true. This includes most entrepreneurs.
Mars is at the bottom of a fairly deep gravity well and has a very thin atmosphere. This makes landing on Mars is challenging. The atmosphere is thick enough to cause problems but not thick enough for useful aerobreaking. Getting useful loads down to the ground is a a technically challenging problem, and getting back into orbit is just difficult enough to be annoyingly expensive.
The Moon, Ceres, Titan, Callisto, all are easier to land and take-off from than Mars, and since you can land and take-off with much less fuel there's a lot more useful payload capacity to work with. I guess that if you can get a human live to Mars, Titan and Callisto are equally possible.
I'm not convinced by Venus though, unless someone really thinks cloud-cities can be made to work.
Let's figure out that pad explosion before we start selling tickets to Titan.
So the circle-jerk can stop.
People who never accomplish anything, but sit around throw insults at people trying to...
Just make sure he leaves Europa alone. Don't want to upset the monoliths.
Is it "ITS" or "IT'S"?
Bigger and bigger as Elon's finances get smaller and smaller.
For Musk, this isn't just a *theory*: it's fairly obvious he's using the cheat system. ;)
:::The Spear in the heart of the Other is the Spear in the heart of You; You are He - Surak of Vulcan:::
all these worlds are yours except europa attempt no landing there use them together use them in peace
I love the fact that he's at least thinking big, about using his $billions for big, long term stuff that sure, might make him piles of cash but would also seriously advance humanity.
OTOH, I'm just sort of afraid he's either not totally serious or tons of people are going to die going along with his ideas....not because of THEM (if they volunteer, that's their choice) but because it would then set such projects back so far they'll never happen.
-Styopa
Using paragraphs would help to spread the message. Oh, wait. Only gay nig.gers use paragraphs. So...yeah.
We will one day live on every large rocky surface in the solar system... ... just not in Elon Musk's lifetime.
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
Seriously, for any trip to go beyond mars, they MUST have nuclear power, and very likely nuclear engines.
Im guessing that he is looking multiples on these with NASA, along with Bigelow and Bezo.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Turn the light off before you go, you jaapie shit.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
If we can get past facing ourselves first. Demonizing one another, moral posturing, etc. We live in a post-scarcity age in resources, but distribution and the stifling of new research has been holding us back from this great vision.
"he tweeted on Friday evening".
Attempt no landing there.
As the caption mentions, he's reading Excession by Iain Banks. ...way beyond Mars.
Pretty much just, 'windbag'. Whatever, Elon.
Elon should get the dick out of his ass and just work on getting in to orbit without exploding. The more he talks, the less impressed I am by his grand claims.
I would go colonize Mars ASAP if we had the chance. But I'm the exception. I mean other humans can't be bothered to live in places like Antarctica, the Sahara desert, or North Dakota. How do I expect that they are going to colonize Mars? They would go to Mars, declare it a desert and come back. Why aren't we all over the moon?
I don't live in Antarctica, but not cause I don't want to.
Just maybe, he should first set his sights on getting a craft three feet into the air before it blows up :-)
Then, and only then, should he consider aiming for the moons of the gas giants.
This post bought to you by the numbers pi and e, and the letter "schadenfreude".
How many light years is Venus?