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Most Drivers Who Own Cars With Built-in GPS Systems Use Phones For Directions - Mostly Out of Frustration (cnn.com)

Posted by msmash on from the unnecessary-technology dept.

According to a new survey, many new car owners use their phones for directions despite their cars coming with built-in navigation systems. These users do it out of frustration, the survey added. CNN adds: The market research firm J.D. Power and Associates surveyed owners of new vehicles after the first 90 days of ownership. They were asked about all kinds of new in-vehicle technology including navigation, entertainment and safety technologies like lane-keeping assistance and automatic braking. For the most part, the survey found, people are relatively satisfied with the technology in their cars. On a 1,000 point scale, the average satisfaction score was 730. Navigation systems rated the worst with an average score of 687. Almost two-thirds of new vehicle owners with a built-in navigation reported using their smartphone or a portable navigation device to find their way at least some of the time. Nearly a third of those with built-in navigation used it for less than two weeks before giving up on it and using their phone or another portable device, according to J.D. Power. And more than half of people with built-in navigation systems never used them at all, according to the survey.

38 of 310 comments (clear)

  1. $300 or $400 for map update by avandesande · · Score: 5, Informative

    Even more reason to skip in car gps option....

    --
    love is just extroverted narcissism
    1. Re: $300 or $400 for map update by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Yeah. And they charge hundreds for the actual unit in the first place. It'd be cheaper to buy a new Garmin every 6 months than buy an in dash navigation.

    2. Re:$300 or $400 for map update by ZorinLynx · · Score: 2

      I always wondered how they can justify charging more for a map update than the cost of an entirely standalone GPS unit.

      People keep their cars a lot longer than phones. So while the phone keeps getting faster and better over the years, the car stays the same and the onboard navigation starts to feel dated.

      This is why I nearly laughed at my dealer when they suggested I get the car with navigation for $1000 more. Umm yeah, no. That's more than I pay for a whole new phone. Join the present!

    3. Re: $300 or $400 for map update by MikeOnBike · · Score: 5, Informative

      I get tired of Chrysler wanting $150 every couple of years to update the maps in my Jeep. I spent slightly less than that on a 4" Garmin with lifetime updates. And of course when I bought it the dealer assures me that free updates are included. BS, what a ripoff.

    4. Re: $300 or $400 for map update by viperidaenz · · Score: 2

      in-car systems use the vehicle speed sensor and a gyro for the main navigation input, with GPS being used to find an approximate position only.

      At least that's how it works in my 2005 Honda. Means it still works in urban canyons and tunnels.

      I suppose an after-market system could use an accelerometer instead of the speed sensor. GPS isn't the quickest in terms of updating your absolute position. If it's running at 1Hz and you're travelling at 100kph, it's around 30m between updates.

      It's quite often my phone says "Take the 3rd exit" in a round-about when I'm already taking that exit.
      The reason I don't use the in-car navigation is because its maps are only for Japan, and I've never even been to Japan.

    5. Re:$300 or $400 for map update by Sharkus · · Score: 4, Informative

      Oh I hear you. It's a serious pet peeve of mine. I have a 2014 Kia Forte 5, with the navigation system. They farm out the updates to it to MnSoft, who charge around CAD$300 plus tax for a single update (it's at least $50 for the 16GB SD card the update comes on!) and there are typically two updates a year, so you're looking at CAD$600 plus tax *a year* to keep totally updated. I've contacted Kia Canada and they don't care, they say, it's a third party and there is nothing they can do. Well, more like they don't want to do anything. I've pointed out that a TomTom Go 600 is about $300, and it comes with lifetime maps, ok limited to four updates per year, but that is far far better than the built in solution. When it comes to Android Auto and Apple CarPlay, the 2014 - 2016 models are Gen 3.0 cars and too old to have their system updated for it. Only the 2017+ cars will get it. Well, they *might*. In the US, it's a free update via the myUVO site, but in Canada, unless it's changed, Kia does not have a solution. Apparently people have been told by Kia customer care people that they'll need to purchase the update from MnSoft as Canada does not have UVO! I've also heard people with cars that are advertised as supporting Android Auto (2017 Sportage I think), being told it's a paid update, when the Kia website makes no indication of this, in fact, it indicates if you have the correct spec / level / trim of car, then it's included. What really irks is they won a JD power award and pride themselves on saying they are all about the customer, when in this case it proves that is simply not the case. They could resolve the price of Nav updates by taking MnSoft to task over it, but they seem to care not one jot about it. I have considered reaching out to automotive media outlets to see if they have any interest in a story about this, as it seems customer are getting the rough end of the deal when it comes to navigation updates.

    6. Re: $300 or $400 for map update by dgatwood · · Score: 4, Informative

      Plus the real issue is that a car's metal frame acts as a Faraday cage, blocking the signal.

      A full wavelength at the lowest GPS frequency is only 10 centimeters. So unless your windows are all smaller than that, no your car is not a Faraday cage at those frequencies.

      --

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    7. Re:$300 or $400 for map update by tripleevenfall · · Score: 2

      My parents bought a new pickup with a fancy navigation system, but according to TFP, they have to subscribe to something to use it, so they don't use it. They use a road atlas when they aren't asking people to get off their lawn.

      Are they correct? Is it perception or does it truly require a subscription? I suppose at the end of the day it doesn't matter. Perception is reality.

    8. Re: $300 or $400 for map update by markus · · Score: 2

      My Honda Odyssey was showing me in the middle of a building driving diagonally through the block, while my phone showed the accurate position. Both properly tracked the vehicle accelerating and slowing down

    9. Re:$300 or $400 for map update by Sloppy · · Score: 2

      I think it's great if the car has GPS, because it has exterior antenna(s) which are going to be way more reliable than my Galaxy S4's crappy GPS, which I have to hold up or near a window to keep a "lock." But it should make the GPS results available to other systems. Then a device driver in the phone can say "fuck my local equipment, use this GPS computer over here..." That'd be awesome to the max.

      (Or I could just get a new phone with a better antenna, but that just seems wrong somehow...)

      Anyway, car computers suck because the manufacturers want 'em to be another videogame console cash cow walled-garden, which means the software is never going to be any good. It's the IBM mainframe of 1960s-1970s, the videogame consoles, the iPhone, etc all over again. Seems like every damn form factor needs its own "Personal Computer revolution" because customers are simply unable to exert enough pressure early in the life cycle.

      We all need to get a lot more militant about preventing this sort of crap. It's my computer so stop telling me what I have to do with it. It ought to be punch-you-in-the-face fighting words from the get-go, whenever they even hint about getting in your way.

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      As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
    10. Re: $300 or $400 for map update by cayenne8 · · Score: 2

      I drove to a park unfamiliar to me today to pick up a split half.

      Ok..what is a split half?

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    11. Re: $300 or $400 for map update by shaitand · · Score: 2

      Yes, garmin and tomtom both have options like this. I used to swear by Garmin but now I'd have to say that TomTom just does a better job. Especially since the last Garmin I had with lifetime updates turned out to mean lifetime of Garmin choosing to support updates on that model and not lifetime of the device.

      "and they can free your phone up for other tasks."

      What exactly is it you are doing in your car with you phone while driving? How is this not evidence your license should be taken away?

    12. Re: $300 or $400 for map update by Sloppy · · Score: 3, Informative

      The problem isn't really even how much they're charging; it's that you can't shop around and use whatever data that you want to (or cheap out with openstreetmap or build your own data as your drive around, or whatever). If they had to compete, I doubt anyone would be complaining about the prices.

      --
      As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
    13. Re: $300 or $400 for map update by thegarbz · · Score: 5, Informative

      That signal is pointed straight down

      No it's not. That signal is hitting you from all sorts of angles, especially if you have a clear view of the horizon.

      so if you don't have a sun roof

      I see you're unfamiliar with scattering. The wonderful thing about metal and cement is they don't make EM disappear, they bounce it around a bit. I pick up on average 18 satellites (mix of GPS and GLONASS) in my car with a good signal strength. And I have a tiny little shoebox with small windows, no sunroof, and my phone is often lying in the centre console under the dashboard.

    14. Re: $300 or $400 for map update by Scorch_Mechanic · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's a quarter-cow's worth of (in this case, grass fed) beef for $8.69 a pound. A split half is roughly 90 lbs. total, half ground beef and the rest an assortment. It's basically buying a fully butchered quarter-carcass, so you get approximately the steaks and pieces that you would get if you had literally purchased a quarter of a cow. It's a very good deal on very good beef if you have the freezer space and don't mind having a lot of ground beef.

      --
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    15. Re: $300 or $400 for map update by shaitand · · Score: 2

      "That signal is hitting you from all sorts of angles, especially if you have a clear view of the horizon."

      That is a fair point since there are multiple satellites.

      "I see you're unfamiliar with scattering."

      On the contrary I'm quite familiar with scattering and when you start with a weak signal being sent from such a long distance each bounce significantly weakens it further. Also, 10cm isn't exactly a great wavelength for bouncing.

      "I pick up on average 18 satellites (mix of GPS and GLONASS) in my car with a good signal strength."

      Impressive, I've never picked up more than 8 under the open sky. I don't often have a problem now but just a few years ago with my Garmin window mounted would often have trouble acquiring GPS signal when properly mounted (in a metal bodied car). Any of my devices takes some time to acquire a signal in the car and much longer yet if the car is moving. My phone does better because it maintains location even when GPS is down but if you actually check your location data you can see all the blips where signal is lost.

    16. Re: $300 or $400 for map update by mea_culpa · · Score: 2

      The system in my 2012 Civic is like this. When I drive through a 3/4 long tunnel my phone immediately stops tracking movement but the system in the Honda continues. I just assumed it had a better antenna or something, but even when making the slightest turn at a slow speed the navigation display moves fluid where as on my smartphone oftentimes it can't tell what direction I'm going until I've driven 50ft or more. But It's still a piece of shit and I never use it other than looking at a map as routing sucks and it is completely worthless as a navigation aid while the vehicle is moving due to operator restrictions imposed by the manufacturer.

    17. Re: $300 or $400 for map update by Zxern · · Score: 2

      Weak cell signal. Most phones have pretty weak gps units that are augmented by cell tower triangulation. If it can't find a strong tower signal, you're unlikely to get a gps signal at all.

      That's also why they tend to work better/more accurately in a city than a standalone gps unit does.

    18. Re: $300 or $400 for map update by Fnord666 · · Score: 2

      That and the Garmin may or may not recognize GLONASS satellite signals.

      --
      'The tyrant will always find pretext for his tyranny.' - Aesop's Fables
    19. Re: $300 or $400 for map update by Cederic · · Score: 2

      The split half (whatever the holy fuck that is)?
      Your shitty phone?
      The mobile network?
      GPS signal interference from large downtown buildings?
      The wetware involved?

      But no, it's not your car's frame.

  2. Your software is bad and you should feel bad. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    Open source that stuff so we code something usable for our cars.

    Also, i shouldnt have to dig through on-screen menus to turn off the radio.

    1. Re:Your software is bad and you should feel bad. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      What are you talking about? One of my favorite features of my touch-screen controlled radios is that you can get in the car, gently put your sleeping baby in the car seat, and then remember that when you last parked you were listening to the radio loudly. Now you're fucked because there's no way to turn the radio down before it turns on and blasts your neighborhood and wakes your sleeping child. The best part is there is about 10 seconds between when the radio turns on and the touch screen OR knobs (just looped into the computer control logic) are able to adjust the volume.

    2. Re:Your software is bad and you should feel bad. by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 2

      That brings up the other big reason not to use in-car navigation. When you rent, navigation costs extra and it's something else you have to learn how to use. You're much better off using the phone you have with you anyway.

  3. Yup by PvtVoid · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Exactly. I keep my car for at least a decade, and information technology obsolesces much more quickly than that: Just give me a useful Bluetooth connection and let me use my phone for navigation and audio. In addition to continuously updated maps, a networked navigation app like Google Maps gives me real-time traffic, which I don't get with an offline nav system.

    1. Re:Yup by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      real-time traffic, which I don't get with an offline nav system

      Must be an american thing. We've been getting traffic reports via RDS over FM in Europe for many years. I find Google reacts better to slow buildup of general traffic, while the RDS system on my in car navigation reacts far better to accidents, breakdowns, or issues that get classified as something other than "slow traffic".

  4. Too clunky by fructose · · Score: 2

    I can see why too. Using your phone is second nature, because you use it so often. But infotainment screens are built by third parties that have to follow different rules for safety, so they aren't as intuitive. And there's no real incentive to improve, as they aren't in the 'upgrade' market. For the most part, once you have the GPS unit in your car, you don't replace it. Phones get updated every two years, and the software is updated almost monthly (apps are at least). Why use something that is 'hard' to use, not updated, and doesn't work like you expect?

  5. Simple reason.... by wbr1 · · Score: 4, Insightful
    These systems are built quickly, poorly maintained and the engineers have little UI experience. Then they are sold at a huge premium in the higher trim options for the car. Something like Android auto is better. Just give a touch screen and api that we can pipe apps to. Then you can use the app you are familiar with and have regular updates or switch to a new one if that stops being suitable.

    Just about anyone who owns a car will own at least one smartphone, so it is wasteful in the extreme both in dev hours and materials to duplicate this functionality poorly. Take it out and give users the option to roll their own solution with Waze/Garmin/Whatever.

    --
    Silence is a state of mime.
    1. Re:Simple reason.... by barc0001 · · Score: 2

      Depends. I've got a Mazda 3 and I think the system in it is very well designed and easy to use, with only a minor quirk for accepting an address in the nav that trips you up (no pun intended) the first couple of times until you understand that the red highlight on the QWE button will accept the address in front of you on the display when you press the selector to proceed - just an odd little UX improvement could smooth that out.

      Compare and contrast with the Acura system. My dad had an old Acura TL from 2003 that the nav in worked reasonably well and the UI was bland but functional. He traded that in for a 2016 TL and holy shit I cannot believe how bad the user interface on that thing is. It's like they went out of their way to screw with you. He told me he was having trouble using it and I was figuring "eh, older people and tech", but no. I spent 10 minutes trying to get an address into the damn thing and gave up. Reading the manual eventually sussed out how to do it, but for crying out loud, you should easily be able to enter an address into a nav system without having to resort to consulting the manual.

      Cost is another reason I liked the Mazda system more. Everything was already built in to the car and Nav was a $300 option with updates for the life of the warranty, unlike the Acura "give me your wallet" model for updates.

    2. Re:Simple reason.... by dk20 · · Score: 2

      Was hoping someone would post about the "safety lock enabled" and sure enough.

      One of our cars has a built in GPS, the other two dont.

      Two cars - Stop at a light or pull over and adjust the after market stick on the window GPS units.
      One car - Safety lock enabled... you pretty much have to pull off the road, stop the thing and put it in park before it lets you do ANYTHING with it.
      Oddly enough, it will let you adjust the radio.

      Half of the systems settings are also "safety locked" and it is a constant source of frusration as everything seems to be at least 3 menus deep. And for this i think it was a $3,000 option... total waste.

  6. Built In Doesn't Warn You About Police by IonOtter · · Score: 2

    The built-in apps on the car don't always give you updates on traffic, and they most certainly don't give you updates on the locations of police.

    Waze does.

    There are long threads in vehicle forums, dedicated to hacking the OS of the console, so people can add their *own* apps and navigation systems.

    Also, there's something very creepy about driving along, and hearing "Caution! Toll booth ahead!" coming out of your speakers, when you aren't using navigation at all.

    Which is just one of the many reasons why forum modders work so hard to dump the stock OS.

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    [End Of Line]
  7. ... many new card owners use their phones ... by chuckugly · · Score: 3, Funny

    "According to a new survey, many new card owners use their phones for directions" - I know when I'm driving my card .... WTF /.?

  8. Fem Nav by dohzer · · Score: 2

    My girlfriend also has a built in navigation system, but it's absolutely rubbish so she uses her smart phone to find her way around.

  9. Been using GPS for 5+ Years/Never go without by mykepredko · · Score: 4, Informative

    Maybe I've been lucky with GPSes (GPI?) in cars but I find them to be really invaluable. Just for the record, I'm talking about a Toyota Prius Navigation (touch screen) and the Audi MMI Navigation Plus (input wheel that you can draw characters on). Both have voice input.

    Interesting seeing the comments about update prices. For Toyota, I was quoted $3k CAN but the dealer could find it on a thumb drive and then it was free. Audi updates are free as part of regular maintenance. The Toyota maps, even though they were apparently updated to the current date never had a number of streets that were between five and ten years old. The Audi maps have streets that haven't been finished yet.

    TFA discusses Android Auto and Apple CarPlay and neither work in the Prius. Android Auto is not available on the Audi and CarPlay sucks. I would love to plan out my route at home and then download the directions into the car.

    Regardless, I find that when I'm on the road (a lot right now as I'm doing a startup), the GPS in the car is invaluable and I don't have to look down at my phone (which is a big fine/points here in Ontario) and I would recommend it for everybody.

    --
    Mimetics Inc. Twitter
  10. I use my Nav without directions by ArtemaOne · · Score: 4, Interesting

    For directions I'm about half and half, phone and Nav. But I use my Nav system constantly to help me figure out better routes without ever using directions. It's just an overhead view that I can zoom in and out. Most of the time I don't need actual directions since I can just see where I am on a map that tracks my location. I've found so many nice routes simply from that God's eye capability.

  11. Re:Print it out ahead of time by Moheeheeko · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I love how you neglect the "up front" costs of your printed up directions, like the computer, the internet connection, and the printer itself.

  12. Always blinking by presidenteloco · · Score: 3, Funny

    For some reason, my car's GPS display is always just blinking 12:00

    Can you help me?

    --

    Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
  13. that little antenna by Lead+Butthead · · Score: 4, Informative

    isn't an antenna. It's a marker so drivers know where the vehicle "ends." real handy when trying to park in tight spaces.
    GPS antenna are located either outside of the vehicle (integrated with AF/FM/satellite antenna) or some place not obstructed by the vehicle frame (under the dash, on a corner the windshield, etc.)

    --
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  14. Re:Print it out ahead of time by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 2
    That includes driving in a foreign country.

    Probably not a European one. Try London - from day to day the one way streets get reversed, random streets are blocked off either for road repairs or permanently, and accidents can block areas of several square miles for hours on end. Printed maps are useless within minutes of being printed.

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