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Every Year of Smoking Causes About 150 New DNA Mutations That Can Make Cancer More Likely, Says Study (latimes.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Los Angeles Times: For every year that you continue your pack-a-day habit, the DNA in every cell in your lungs acquires about 150 new mutations. Some of those mutations may be harmless, but the more there are, the greater the risk that one or more of them will wind up causing cancer. The threat doesn't stop there, according to a study in Friday's edition of the journal Science. After a year of smoking a pack of cigarettes each day, the cells in the larynx pick up roughly 97 new mutations, those in the pharynx accumulate 39 new mutations, and cells in the oral cavity gain 23 new mutations. Even organs with no direct exposure to tobacco smoke appear to be affected. The researchers counted about 18 new mutations in every bladder cell and six new mutations in every liver cell for each "pack-year" that smokers smoked. The findings are based on a genetic analysis of 5,243 cancers, including 2,490 from smokers and 1,063 from patients who said they had never smoked tobacco cigarettes. The researchers used powerful supercomputers to compare thousands of cancer genome sequences. The computers grouped the sequences into about 20 distinct categories, or "mutational signatures." Mutations tied to five of these signatures were more common in tumors from smokers than in tumors from nonsmokers. One of the signatures involves a specific DNA nucleobase change -- instead of a C for cytosine, there was an A for adenine -- that "is very similar" to the change that occurs in the lab when cells are exposed to benzo[a]pyrene, a compound that the International Agency for Research on Cancer says is carcinogenic to humans. Most of the lung and larynx cancers obtained from smokers had this type of mutation, the researchers reported. They also found that the signature was more common among smokers than nonsmokers. Another mutational signature was characterized by Cs that should have been Ts (thymine) and vice versa. Although these changes can be found in all kinds of cancers, the signature was 1.3 to 5.1 times more common in tumors from smokers than in tumors from nonsmokers, according to the study.

158 comments

  1. Yes yes, smoking causes cancer. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Dipping tobacco causes cancer too. But people are dumb and don't realize how much it ruins their quality of life in addition to killing them.

    1. Re: Yes yes, smoking causes cancer. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think they do, and do it because they enjoy it anyway. People are capable of weighing their own choices, you know.

      Just because its not your choice does not give you the authority to take their agency away.

  2. This is why everyone should vape. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's way, way better for you than smoking. And for your family, too.

    1. Re:This is why everyone should vape. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      I quit smoking by using a vape and gradually toning down the nicotine levels in the fluid from 18mg to 0mg. After that I found myself using the vape less and less until finally I quit that too.

      For anyone who doesn't smoke, don't start smoking OR vaping. If you are already a smoker, I wholeheartedly recommend giving vaping a try.

    2. Re:This is why everyone should vape. by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Nicotine is a really good recreational drug. Nothing wrong with vaping.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    3. Re:This is why everyone should vape. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except for the severe addiction and dependency. I was tired of being a slave, that's why I quit.

    4. Re:This is why everyone should vape. by Narcocide · · Score: 0

      There was a recent study that showed MOST models of vaporizers still burn the nicotine oil to "vaporize" it. So you're still releasing most the same exact carcinogens, plus you're inhaling burning baby oil. Maybe this is not so safe after all. (Don't ask for a citation. It was posted here on /., find it yourself.)

    5. Re:This is why everyone should vape. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      That's complete BS. First, there is no oil whatsoever in eliquids. Second, vaporisers work by heating a coil which heats cotton wicked with eliquid. If it were burning, you would certainly know it because you would be getting dry hits.

      Perhaps you shouldn't talk about things that you don't understand.

    6. Re:This is why everyone should vape. by Fragnet · · Score: 1

      Yes, I vape now too.

    7. Re:This is why everyone should vape. by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      Nobody should vape either. Quit polluting my air, faggot.

      So you don't drive then?

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    8. Re:This is why everyone should vape. by stealth_finger · · Score: 4, Informative

      There was a recent study that showed MOST models of vaporizers still burn the nicotine oil to "vaporize" it. So you're still releasing most the same exact carcinogens, plus you're inhaling burning baby oil. Maybe this is not so safe after all. (Don't ask for a citation. It was posted here on /., find it yourself.)

      You do realise alot of the bad stuff is added to the tobacco or is in the paper for various reason. It's not just the nicotine which is relatively harmless on its own.

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    9. Re:This is why everyone should vape. by Narcocide · · Score: 0

      That's actually false. You need to do some research or stop shilling.

    10. Re:This is why everyone should vape. by karnal · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Vaping != burning. Vaping = boiling. When vaping = burning, your device is dry and the user definitely can tell.

      --
      Karnal
    11. Re:This is why everyone should vape. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have a colleague who vapes across from my desk during the day. Do you think he's endangering me with second hand vapor through daily exposue?

    12. Re:This is why everyone should vape. by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 1

      There was a recent study that showed MOST models of vaporizers still burn the nicotine oil to "vaporize" it. So you're still releasing most the same exact carcinogens, plus you're inhaling burning baby oil. Maybe this is not so safe after all. (Don't ask for a citation. It was posted here on /., find it yourself.)

      Even if this is true, it still doesn't discount that some people use vaping to get off smoking and eventually quit altogether. Inhaling carcinogens for a few more months instead of for life, is a positive step.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    13. Re: This is why everyone should vape. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're going to die. Get your affairs in order.

    14. Re:This is why everyone should vape. by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      I quit smoking by using a vape and gradually toning down the nicotine levels in the fluid from 18mg to 0mg. After that I found myself using the vape less and less until finally I quit that too.

      For anyone who doesn't smoke, don't start smoking OR vaping. If you are already a smoker, I wholeheartedly recommend giving vaping a try.

      What was your "ramp" like? IOW, how long did the entire process take from 18 mg to 0 mg? How long at 0 mg before you were able to set the vape down, too? How long had you been smoking, and how many cigs/packs a day before you started vaping? How long did you continue to smoke cigs while vaping?

      Genuinely curious here.

    15. Re:This is why everyone should vape. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      There was a recent study that showed MOST models of vaporizers still burn the nicotine oil to "vaporize" it. So you're still releasing most the same exact carcinogens, plus you're inhaling burning baby oil. Maybe this is not so safe after all. (Don't ask for a citation. It was posted here on /., find it yourself.)

      Thank you FUD monkey. You are doing your job perfectly. With your help big tobacco and big pharma will successfully kill people in numbers beyond Godwin levels.

      You see when it was posted https://science.slashdot.org/s... people immediately explained why it was a totally bogus study. It is a paid for hit piece used to terrify and get people to ban the greatest threat to cancer we have seen.
      The researcher who got scammed into doing the study (or at least would like it if we thought they have some credibility left) http://www.ahlusion.us/blog/le...

      But the formaldehyde!
      Nope: http://www.ahlusion.us/blog/st...

      There is not enough research!
      Umm this stuff has been researched for decades. 0 problems from it if you are not asthmatic. You see no one wants rich important performers dying from weird chemicals. Yes, this it your dance floor, Hollywood, theater smoke.

      Adding nicotine to the vape fluid adds a heart attack/stroke risk but reduces your Alzheimer risk.

      Seriously, burning baby oil? Man the crazy stuff that is getting put out there to scare.

    16. Re:This is why everyone should vape. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have a good deal of experience with using and building everything from ecigs and egos to mechanical and regulated box mods with various clearomizers and RDAs using a variety of plus and sub ohm coils and I have also made countless batches of eliquid. I know vastly more about the subject than you do.

    17. Re:This is why everyone should vape. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      About a year going from 18mg to 0mg and then roughly another 6 months on the 0mg. The final 6 months wasn't consistent vaping though as it tapered off naturally over that time as I got used to not feeling the urge to puff. I have been off the vape for a year now and off of cigarettes (or "analogs" as some vaping ex-smokers call them) for about 2 1/2 years. Initially it did take a short while to get accustomed to vaping instead of smoking, but it really wasn't all that difficult due to the nicotine and the simulation of smoking.

      Something I probably should have mentioned earlier also is if you are thinking about vaping, make sure you do your research or buy a vape unit that is prepackaged. Some people end up exploding their batteries because they use unregulated batteries and/or mods with the wrong kind of coils.

    18. Re:This is why everyone should vape. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh and duh, I totally forgot to answer the other questions.

      How long had you been smoking, and how many cigs/packs a day before you started vaping?

      About 20 years with maybe 15 years at 20 cigarettes a day and the rest at around 10 cigarettes a day.

      How long did you continue to smoke cigs while vaping?

      I didn't. When I made the decision to quit smoking I stopped buying cigarettes and bought a vape (at first a cheap one, then a better one as I became familiar with the different styles and finding one that was good for me) and stuck with it.

  3. Cannabis by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I wonder how cannabis compares. There is no way smoking small particulate matter of any kind is healthy, and while it isn't as carcinogenic as tobacco, I would be extremely surprised to see if it didn't have long term health effects on the lungs. Only time will tell.

    1. Re:Cannabis by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      the main difference is that the contents of tobacco are far more carcinogenic. Also, the quantity smoked in terms of cannabis is waaaay lower than that of a habitual tobacco smoker. Moderate to heavy cigarette smokers are smoking a cigarette every hour or more all day.

      THC and Cannabidiols are not carcinogenic in and of themselves, it's only ingestion by smoking that can risk DNA damage. Luckily there are other options with cannabis like edibles.

    2. Re:Cannabis by swb · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I wonder how cannabis compares. There is no way smoking small particulate matter of any kind is healthy, and while it isn't as carcinogenic as tobacco, I would be extremely surprised to see if it didn't have long term health effects on the lungs. Only time will tell.

      You're right, but with any kind of decent pot, how much do you have to smoke? With any of the high test shit from California or Colorado, one hit and you're seriously high.

      Even as a carefree college student, I maybe peaked out at 8-10 one hits per day on a really carefree day, like some weird Saturday when there was no homework and a serious party atmosphere. Your typical responsible person with a job or even me in college most days? 1 to 3 one hits in the evening after work? That should have most people plenty stoned.

      Now compare that to a serious smoker pulling down an entire pack (or more) of cigarettes per day. By about the third or forth cigarette, you're way past whatever pot could do.

      Now of course, there are compulsive pot smokers who smoke much more, but I figure a compulsive pot smoker would have to be smoking 5 or more joints a day to compare to a pack a day smoker. I just don't see how you could do that with most of the pot in circulation these days, especially in places where its legal or nearly so and is really strong.

    3. Re:Cannabis by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most smokers probably smoke over 20 cigarettes a day. If you have people that smoke at work, you'll notice they usually cant't go a full hour without a smoke break. This is in contrast to MJ smokers, who may have one or maybe two joints a day at most (sure there are extreme cases but that's not the norm). Most smokers are also more likely to be conservative/Republican whereas I don't know a singe MJ smoker that is.

    4. Re:Cannabis by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      as a compulsive pot smoker, 5 joints a day is not a pack of cigarettes. im from the netherlands so its been normal to smoke here for a longer time and basically a joint contains 1 - 1.5 cigarette worth of tobacco if youd roll one without weed

    5. Re:Cannabis by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Now of course, there are compulsive pot smokers who smoke much more, but I figure a compulsive pot smoker would have to be smoking 5 or more joints a day to compare to a pack a day smoker. I just don't see how you could do that with most of the pot in circulation these days, especially in places where its legal or nearly so and is really strong.

      What? That's easy. The only way it's difficult is that it's expensive, if you don't know the right people.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    6. Re:Cannabis by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 1

      Definitely carcinogens in cannabis too. I think I read once that there are more than a regular cigarette.

      Regardless, you get some people smoking multiple packs of cigarettes a day. You don't have that problem with cannabis. Does anyone (besides serious pot heads) smoke more than one in a day?

      Still bad for you, but as a numbers game, it's not AS bad.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    7. Re:Cannabis by swb · · Score: 1

      It's not the cost I would find the obstacle, it's the strength.

      If there's 16 waking hours in a day, that's an entire joint of premium marijuana about every 3 hours. I just don't think that's sustainable, unless being really stoned is all you need to do for your entire life.

      Maybe if you really worked at it, you could build up enough tolerance to make it work, but not in my experience.

    8. Re:Cannabis by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 2

      I wonder how cannabis compares. There is no way smoking small particulate matter of any kind is healthy, and while it isn't as carcinogenic as tobacco, I would be extremely surprised to see if it didn't have long term health effects on the lungs. Only time will tell.

      Curiously enough, the non-biased studies seem to show that cannabis does NOT seem to contribute significantly to COPD, and may even be ANTI-carcinogenic. I know it seems impossible, but them's the facts.

      Even the Canadian Medial Association Journal stated in 2009, Article "Does smoking marijuana increase the risk of chronic obstructive pulmonary disease?" that "Given the consistently reported absence of an association between use of marijuana and abnormal diffusing capacity or signs of macroscopic emphysema, we can be close to concluding that smoking marijuana by itself does not lead to COPD."

      And, as far as Marijuana smoking causing Cancer, even the most pedestrian of Medical Resources, WebMD, are saying publicly there is no causal link between Pot smoking and increased Cancer risk, even for the heaviest of smokers. "The heaviest marijuana users in the study had smoked more than 22,000 joints, while moderately heavy smokers had smoked between 11,000 and 22,000 joints.

      While two-pack-a-day or more cigarette smokers were found to have a 20-fold increase in lung cancer risk, no elevation in risk was seen for even the very heaviest marijuana smokers."


      And yet, Marijuana is STILL listed as a Schedule 1 NARCOTIC in the U.S....

    9. Re:Cannabis by swb · · Score: 1

      I was averaging up the "lung impact" of pot smoking with the idea that a joint would be smoked with deeper inhalation and longer hold times than a typical cigarette smoker.

      That being said, I've known at least one heavy pot smoker who was a former cigarette smoker who smoked his joints more like a cigarette smoker smokes cigarettes, but even he didn't manage 5 a day.

    10. Re:Cannabis by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wonder how cannabis compares. There is no way smoking small particulate matter of any kind is healthy, and while it isn't as carcinogenic as tobacco, I would be extremely surprised to see if it didn't have long term health effects on the lungs. Only time will tell.

      Curiously enough, the non-biased studies seem to show that cannabis does NOT seem to contribute significantly to COPD, and may even be ANTI-carcinogenic. I know it seems impossible, but them's the facts.

      Even the Canadian Medial Association Journal stated in 2009, Article "Does smoking marijuana increase the risk of chronic obstructive pulmonary disease?" that "Given the consistently reported absence of an association between use of marijuana and abnormal diffusing capacity or signs of macroscopic emphysema, we can be close to concluding that smoking marijuana by itself does not lead to COPD."

      And, as far as Marijuana smoking causing Cancer, even the most pedestrian of Medical Resources, WebMD, are saying publicly there is no causal link between Pot smoking and increased Cancer risk, even for the heaviest of smokers. "The heaviest marijuana users in the study had smoked more than 22,000 joints, while moderately heavy smokers had smoked between 11,000 and 22,000 joints.

      While two-pack-a-day or more cigarette smokers were found to have a 20-fold increase in lung cancer risk, no elevation in risk was seen for even the very heaviest marijuana smokers."

      And yet, Marijuana is STILL listed as a Schedule 1 NARCOTIC in the U.S....

      THIS...there was a british longitudinal study showing heavy pot smokers had little, if any increase in pulmonary fibrosis and the protective effect from lung cancer was shown. it wasn't huge but anything is surprising and worth following up on. it was a pretty big surprise that smoking non-filtered blunts didn't damage the lungs overall.

    11. Re:Cannabis by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Maybe if you really worked at it, you could build up enough tolerance to make it work, but not in my experience.

      You haven't been anywhere near the emerald triangle, eh?

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  4. smoking by turkeydance · · Score: 1

    anything

  5. a pack a day by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Now clearly im not saying smoking is healthy. But a pack a day is what most people around here would call extremely excessive

    1. Re:a pack a day by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now clearly im not saying smoking is healthy. But a pack a day is what most people around here would call extremely excessive

      Around here 1 pack per day is dead on exactly average. More than a pack a day = heavy, less than a pack of day = light.

  6. In other words, smoking produces mutants.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Smoke if you want to be a super hero.

    1. Re:In other words, smoking produces mutants.. by hyades1 · · Score: 1

      If I had points, I'd mod you up for that. LOL

      --
      I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
    2. Re: In other words, smoking produces mutants.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The future belongs to us, Charles, not them.

      Cough,cough, wheeze, hack-hack.

    3. Re:In other words, smoking produces mutants.. by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

      I was thinking some Philip Morris ad exec might try to spin this...

      "Philip Morris - Working to improve the human race."

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    4. Re:In other words, smoking produces mutants.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Teenage mutant ninja smokers. Teenage mutant ninja smokers.

    5. Re:In other words, smoking produces mutants.. by fuzzywig · · Score: 1
      But how many mutations do I need to have before I get a cool super power?

      I figure more must be better, glad I just bought some more tobacco!

  7. As accurate as all by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The studies that have cured cancer.

    1. Re:As accurate as all by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 1

      Cancer has been cured, many times.

      Just not reliably in humans.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
  8. Ban smoking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is why smoking should be illegal. It has no legitimate redeeming value, while causing massive costs due to health care, human losses, reduced quality of life, and a multitude of other problems. Furthermore, smokers should never be allowed to smoke around non-smokers without clear and direct consent. You don't have the right to cause me to develop cancer just because you have a disgusting habit. Any smoker who lights up around non-smokers without consent should be shot on the spot.

    1. Re:Ban smoking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seconded.

    2. Re:Ban smoking by trparky · · Score: 2

      There have been studies for years that have proven that smoking kills. They have been called "cancer sticks" for decades. But regardless of the fact that people know that smoking kills people just keep on smoking and burning their money away.

      You can't cure stupid.

    3. Re:Ban smoking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can't cure stupid

      Sure you can - keep letting them do it.

    4. Re:Ban smoking by arth1 · · Score: 1

      Remember that mutations aren't all bad mutations. A minority of mutations are beneficial. Evolution keeps score.

      Is the risk of losing a lot greater than the chance of winning? Hell, yes, but we don't ban lottery tickets for that reason either.

    5. Re:Ban smoking by r1348 · · Score: 1

      According to this study, smoking enhances evolution by increasing random mutation!

    6. Re:Ban smoking by ClickOnThis · · Score: 1

      According to this study, smoking enhances evolution by increasing random mutation!

      It also helps to combat climate-change.

      --
      If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
    7. Re: Ban smoking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Addiction is a hell of a thing.

    8. Re:Ban smoking by interkin3tic · · Score: 2

      You're likely trolling, but there are probably some people whose cognitive dissonance is going to actually take that as a reason to continue smoking.

      Mutations are random changes. Connect some random wires to your motherboard. Not all new circuits are going to be bad, some can be beneficial!

      Evolution has been undergoing trial and error for billions of years. You're at peak fitness. Er... from a genetics perspective. Messing with stuff at random at this point is going to, in the vast majority of cases, do nothing. Of the remainder, the vast majority is going to be bad.

      Finally, this is mutations at a cellular level, not system wide. If you changed some genes at random prior to birth, there would be an extremely small number that would help you out a little, though probably with side effects like +1 malaria resistance but -30 health in the form of sickle cell anemia. However, mutations in individual cells will at best kill that individual cell. At worst, it will evolve the cell. Evolution at the cellular level within a massively multicellular organism like yourself turns out to be cancer. Those individual cells are very strong compared to the others. Strong enough to rebel and kill you.

      TLDR: No, there is no "minority" of beneficial mutations here. None. Zero.

    9. Re:Ban smoking by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "This is why smoking should be illegal..."

      Social opprobrium is what kills off usage of a drug, not the law. Tobacco is less popular today than every drug on the DEA schedule, including heroin. If we put tobacco on the schedule, it would probably become more popular.

    10. Re:Ban smoking by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Tobacco is less popular today than every drug on the DEA schedule, including heroin.

      That's only because the "middle Americans" (read, "white folks") are skewing the heroin statistics into the stratosphere. I just moved out of New England, and the heroin epidemic there in white areas is booming. Nice quiet suburban towns are all getting methadone clinics because it's so out-of-control. Heroin use in black and Hispanic areas is down.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    11. Re:Ban smoking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Just as you shouldn't be able to drive around others without direct consent. I don't want to die from breathing in the tons of noxious fumes that your car pumps out.

    12. Re:Ban smoking by Narcocide · · Score: 1

      Or you know, you could just move to a state where its already illegal to do it in public establishments. A curious thing happens then; people automatically know to ask for permission. Weird huh? And you didn't even have to shoot anyone.

    13. Re:Ban smoking by Narcocide · · Score: 1

      Remember that mutations aren't all bad mutations. A minority of mutations are beneficial. Evolution keeps score.

      You really need to play a few hours of a certain video game called "Left 4 Dead 2" then re-evaluate this position.

    14. Re:Ban smoking by allcoolnameswheretak · · Score: 1

      Nothing good ever comes out of outright banning things. Didn't we learn anything from the prohibition era?

      If people want to smoke you should let them. People should be allowed to take responsibility for themselves and make up their own decisions.

    15. Re:Ban smoking by allcoolnameswheretak · · Score: 1

      Any smoker who lights up around non-smokers without consent should be shot on the spot.

      And concerning this, when walking on the street, such as on my way to and from work, I am more disturbed by breathing in exhaust from cars than from the occasional smoker who happens to walk in front of me.

      Lets ban cars and shoot all drivers on the spot, yes?

    16. Re:Ban smoking by Fragnet · · Score: 4, Informative

      Speaking as someone with around 3,000 new mutations (I quit a few months ago), I can tell you I've paid in tax on cigarettes about 2 x the cost of any treatment I'll get for the problems it'll cause and of course I'll take out a lot less in pension assuming I make it to 68, which is quite unlikely. So you know, these "massive" costs are actually net benefits if you're going to start accounting.

    17. Re:Ban smoking by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      Sure you can - keep letting them do it.

      That doesn't work. By the time the cigarettes kill them, they have already reproduced.

    18. Re:Ban smoking by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      This is why smoking should be illegal. It has no legitimate redeeming value, while causing massive costs due to health care, human losses, reduced quality of life, and a multitude of other problems. Furthermore, smokers should never be allowed to smoke around non-smokers without clear and direct consent. You don't have the right to cause me to develop cancer just because you have a disgusting habit. Any smoker who lights up around non-smokers without consent should be shot on the spot.

      How about fuck off. There is one place you have control over the environment and other people and that's your home. If you don't like perfectly legal actions others are taking in public then you are totally free to fuck off back there and never come back out. You won't be missed and the rest of the grown ups can get on with their lives.

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
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    19. Re:Ban smoking by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      There have been studies for years that have proven that smoking kills. They have been called "cancer sticks" for decades. But regardless of the fact that people know that smoking kills people just keep on smoking and burning their money away. You can't cure stupid.

      You can say the same about alcohol.

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
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    20. Re:Ban smoking by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      Hell yeah, I want to mutate me some fire breath!

      --
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    21. Re:Ban smoking by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      You can't cure stupid.

      There have been studies for years that have proven that unhappy people are more likely to succumb to addiction. Smokers are depressed. Film at eleven... if anyone can be bothered to make it

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    22. Re:Ban smoking by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      That's only because the "middle Americans" (read, "white folks") are skewing the heroin statistics into the stratosphere.

      Well, they're still fairly statistically significant... We the mezcla will overtake them any day now, but not yet

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    23. Re:Ban smoking by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      And concerning this, when walking on the street, such as on my way to and from work, I am more disturbed by breathing in exhaust from cars than from the occasional smoker who happens to walk in front of me.

      This is the same dipshit argument as when someone wants to compare guns to cars. Cars are a necessity for modern society. Cigarettes are not. They are designed to do harm, literally; mainstream tobacco is coated with additives, some of which are specifically intended to make it more addictive. In addition, cars keep getting cleaner and cleaner; a fairly typical commuter car will now leave the air in a big city cleaner than before it passed, albeit with higher CO2 concentrations.

      Cars are crap in many ways, but their primary purpose is to enable transportation. Cigarettes are crap in all ways, and their primary purpose is to be addictive and sell more cigarettes.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    24. Re: Ban smoking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You'll be sad when I gain my new smoking-related superpowers!

    25. Re:Ban smoking by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 2

      Remember that mutations aren't all bad mutations. A minority of mutations are beneficial. Evolution keeps score.

      Is the risk of losing a lot greater than the chance of winning? Hell, yes, but we don't ban lottery tickets for that reason either.

      If you're hoping that smoking a cigarette will turn you into spider man you're out of luck. You need a radioactive spider for that.

      If a mutation occurred in a cell in a lung that had some benefit, it would just be in that one cell, it wouldn't spread to your body. There is no tangible benefit from a positively mutated single cell in your lung. So no benefit from lung cell mutation. However, we already know the bad that can happen, I won't even describe that.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    26. Re:Ban smoking by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 1

      We need some national "Save the whitey" day.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    27. Re:Ban smoking by allcoolnameswheretak · · Score: 1

      Cars are a necessity for modern society

      This is debatable. You have grown so accustomed to our ultra-mobility culture, that cars seem like an essential object to exist, when in fact, they are not a necessity. Mobility can be achieved by means of mass-transit as well. Everybody needing to own a car is a luxury that has transformed our society, in many ways for the worst.
      And if you look at the big picture, what do you think has made the larger impact on smog in towns and the general environment? Cars or cigarettes? If what scientists say is true and the probability that we will heat our civilization to death due to CO2 emissions, one of the larger culprits has been our oil dependent car society.

    28. Re:Ban smoking by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      You have grown so accustomed to our ultra-mobility culture, that cars seem like an essential object to exist,

      No, son. Our culture has been led to the car so thoroughly and so much of our economy now depends on it that you could not shift overnight. While we could make them non-essential objects, they are now essential to our lifestyles.

      Mobility can be achieved by means of mass-transit as well.

      Yes, and I've argued as such repeatedly, and that's why I'm not going to suffer your bullshit superior tone. I have championed PRT and rail at every turn here on Slashdot, and you are the new guy who wants to tell me that I should be doing that without being familiar with my history. Why don't you figure out what I already do before telling me what I need to be doing?

      The fact is that our society has deliberately been built around the car, and the vast majority of people's needs would not be solved by public transportation today even if there were no logistics issues caused by all of them trying to use it at once. Buses are garbage.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    29. Re:Ban smoking by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      We need some national "Save the whitey" day.

      Reservations is the answer. Put them where they can't do too much damage.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    30. Re:Ban smoking by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      The problem is criminalizing drugs, is you make a lot of people criminals, because of its addictive nature a lot of people will turn to the black market to get it.
      We really as a culture need to un-cool drugs. It is less about legalization and more about getting people to not want to take it.

      Back in the 1920's we had violent gangs pushing alcoholic beverages because it was made illegal. And now we have gangs pushing pot (in some states) and harder drugs who are just as violent if not more.

      When you make a product that is in demand illegal. People will go to the black market to buy it. This black market bypasses all the legal safety measures.
      You as the consumer who missed a payment, could get your legs broken, and you cannot go to the authorities for protection because you will get arrested for buying the illegal substance.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    31. Re:Ban smoking by allcoolnameswheretak · · Score: 0

      Yes, and I've argued as such repeatedly, and that's why I'm not going to suffer your bullshit superior tone.

      Wow. What class of asshole are you? I was just stating my opinions whereas you:

      This is the same dipshit argument...

      No, son...

      Are belittling me with every post. Now you will not suffer my "bullshit superior tone"? LoL

    32. Re: Ban smoking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Its too bad you can't go somewhere else once you smell cigarrete smoke. Really terrible predicament, that.

    33. Re:Ban smoking by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Wow. What class of asshole are you? I was just stating my opinions

      If you aren't even aware of what a superior dick you were being, you're a fucking moron on top of it.

      Are belittling me with every post. Now you will not suffer my "bullshit superior tone"? LoL

      If you can't take it, don't dish it out.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    34. Re:Ban smoking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Go fuck yourself, you authoritarian, nanny state, fuck.

    35. Re:Ban smoking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We really as a culture need to un-cool drugs. It is less about legalization and more about getting people to not want to take it.

      Back c. 1980 the FDA made the only effective anti-smoking ad. Two teenage loosers were shown smoking, an overweight oinker of a girl with horrible dirty, matted hair, and a goofy geek of a boy with terminal pimples. Ashes dropped from their cigarettes as they as they acted stupid. Brooke Shields then came on and said "Smoking is so cool!", rolling her eyes back in her head in disgust. The tobacco industry went ballistic. They had their congress critters force the FDA to withdraw the ad under the pretense that Brooke was a bad role model.

    36. Re:Ban smoking by deadwill69 · · Score: 1

      "There have been studies for years that have proven that eating/swimming/walking/driving/skydiving/(anything you do in life) kills. They have been called 'death" for decades. But regardless of the fact that people know that eating/swimming/walking/driving/skydiving/ kills people just keep on eating/swimming/walking/driving/skydiving/ and burning their money away".

      I got points to waste so I fixed it for you! It's been proven that life kills. Details at 11'. From a lot of research out there there are 3 things that determine whether you get cancer or not: Lifestyle, Environment, Genetics. Anything outside of those 3 don't even fall outside the margin of error in most studies. Problem is, most studies don't account for these things. Tobacco being one of many influencing factors that is given a lot more credit than it is due and lull's a lot of people into thinking they are doing the right things. Until they get cancer.

      I've lost roughly 20 males in my family in my lifetime. All but 3 died of cancer. Of those that died of cancer only 2 smoked. Nobody made it to 80. One of the smokers made it to 77. Of those that didn't die of cancer, one made it to 92 and he smoked 2 packs a day. Of the other 2, one died in a motorcycle accident and the other died from bruising of the heart after being kicked in the chest by a cow at 76.

      I know my family history has no real bearing on this discussion, just food for thought.

      https://www.cancer.gov/about-c...

    37. Re:Ban smoking by MobSwatter · · Score: 1

      There have been studies for years that have proven that smoking kills. They have been called "cancer sticks" for decades. But regardless of the fact that people know that smoking kills people just keep on smoking and burning their money away.

      You can't cure stupid.

      Yep, seems to run species wide too. Smog produced by gasoline powered automobiles, microwave radiation on the rise since the 80's via satellite, radio, cell communications and not to mention high tension power lines cause cancer too, mind you all these are known to cause birth defects too. None of those idiots building, perpetuating, supporting these types of technologies are quitters either. Meanwhile folks are running around blaming it all on smoking cigarettes because it is "PC". Go back to Berkeley genius. By the way, the saying is "You can't fix stupid", by Ron White.

    38. Re:Ban smoking by arth1 · · Score: 1

      If a mutation occurred in a cell in a lung that had some benefit, it would just be in that one cell, it wouldn't spread to your body. There is no tangible benefit from a positively mutated single cell in your lung. So no benefit from lung cell mutation. However, we already know the bad that can happen, I won't even describe that.

      You're thinking short-term, single-organism.
      A beneficial mutation can occur in your sperm or ovaries, which gives your offspring (or their offspring) an edge.

      It doesn't have to be a big mutation for it to have a huge impact down the generations. Your little toes are small because some ancestor of yours had a beneficial mutation, and it made a tiny difference to how easy it is to walk or run, giving your ancestors an edge over those without that mutation, and those distant relatives without it are now extinct.

      It's quite possible, if not even probable, that some beneficial mutations that changes humanity many many generations down the line is due to some guy taking a puff of a fag today.

      There will be orders of magnitude more bad mutations, but those get weeded out. As long as our reproductive rate is high enough to compensate, mutations is a good thing for humanity, even though it tends to be a bad thing for individuals.

    39. Re:Ban smoking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It has no legitimate redeeming value

      Smoking makes you so fucking cool, though.

      https://breadandcrows.files.wo...

    40. Re:Ban smoking by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Speaking as someone with around 3,000 new mutations (I quit a few months ago), I can tell you I've paid in tax on cigarettes about 2 x the cost of any treatment I'll get for the problems it'll cause and of course I'll take out a lot less in pension assuming I make it to 68, which is quite unlikely. So you know, these "massive" costs are actually net benefits if you're going to start accounting.

      O RLY? Have you done the math? In the USA, it's taxed federally and locally but that turns out to currently be about $2 per pack (used to be much lower). If you smoke one pack a day for 20 years, that's $14,600 in tax.

      I looked up the cost and the typical cost to be an inpatient at a hospital is $1,600 per day. If you are in the hospital, you have eight days to die before you start taking up resources. Now, let's just say you start smoking at age 20 and get cancer after 15 years, so at age 35, you will begin your cancer treatment. You will likely survive a couple years and then die. The cost of the medication to fight cancer is $100,000 per year alone. Your two month decline to dying is going to rack up $96,000. You will expended more than $300,000 after paying $10,950 in cigarette excise tax.

      --
      Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    41. Re:Ban smoking by Fragnet · · Score: 1

      $2 per pack? Are you kidding me? It's £9.50 in the UK. Then there's the problem of the US healthcare system which is twice as expensive as any European healthcare system for no discernible reason (certainly not outcomes) and which in any case is optional - that is to say, if you can't afford the medication you don't get it. $300,000? How quickly will you burn through that with a pension + 2 years of nursing home care? 5 years? 3? Get out of here will you.

    42. Re:Ban smoking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're fucking delusional.

    43. Re:Ban smoking by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 1

      $2 per pack? Are you kidding me? It's £9.50 in the UK.

      Well that's almost £70K (assuming the tax never changed) if you smoke a full pack a day for 20 years. However, that is more of a more recent development and probably why you quit smoking, because you literally couldn't afford to continue. You've probably paid £35K in total taxes, assuming you smoked a full pack a day. That said, the price of the cancer medicine is the same but in the UK, your health care system is eating the cost. This means that overall you are costing society more than you are paying back.

      --
      Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    44. Re:Ban smoking by thoughtlover · · Score: 1

      Obviously, you can cure stupid... it's called education. Regardless, not everyone is getting one, let alone an equal one.

      What about studies that show air pollution is as bad or worse than smoking three packs of cigarettes a day (select cities in China and India, of course)? Or that roadside exposure to diesel fumes can cause near-spontaneous, gene expression changes?

      Is air pollution part of 'being stupid' ? How do you cure that?

      --
      No sig for you! Come back one year!
    45. Re:Ban smoking by thoughtlover · · Score: 1

      Your family history does add to the discussion. Those people in your family were probably smoking tobacco that was less-adulterated for a majority of their life.

      What this study didn't mention were the hundreds of chemicals added to tobacco. I heard that Marlboro Reds have ~500 additives. Also, there's no mention of the impact of carbon monoxide to the body. There's no mention about chewing tobacco and it's ability to wreak havoc on the body's immune system, either.

      Perhaps the additives are what's making tobacco more addictive and deadly. I'm not advocating for tobacco consumption, but I'm thinking that we're not seeing the entire picture.

      --
      No sig for you! Come back one year!
    46. Re:Ban smoking by thoughtlover · · Score: 1

      Go back to Berkeley genius. By the way, the saying is "You can't fix stupid", by Ron White.

      Wow.. you're so hip on denigrating people that are only trying to add a positive comment. And you started out so well with some good reasoning... Best to watch your punctuation when you're getting snippy and pedantic.

      Go back to Berkeley, genius. By the way, the saying is, "You can't fix stupid," by Ron White.

      FTFY

      I'm probably gonna get down-voted for saying that, but I just had to.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

      --
      No sig for you! Come back one year!
    47. Re:Ban smoking by deadwill69 · · Score: 1

      What our healthcare system in the US is being eaten up with is fake foods and obese people. The costs of diabetes far outweigh the cost of anything else. I don't see a big push to tax the crap out of sugar except in NYC. Don't forget the other costs of obesity: Larger doors, larger chairs, larger everything. We all pay for this in addition to the health consequences and costs. Let's not forget heart disease, increased heart attacks, cholesterol issues, increased risk of stroke: the list goes on forever. We keep focusing on one lifestyle issue that has dubious support while ignoring all the really expensive issues is disingenious: Food, lifestyle, exercise, etc.

      https://www.cancer.gov/about-c...

    48. Re:Ban smoking by deadwill69 · · Score: 1

      Additionally, most of them worked in manufacturing plants and were exposed to any number of industrial solvents and particulate matter. With the exception of the 3 that didn't die from cancer.

      I agree. I smoke and I know it's bad for me. I deal with the minor effects and the hacking. I know the larger ones are looming. I know I need to quit for health reasons. I also know I smoke to self medicate. My big question is, is it better to go with the evil you know or the one you don't? Every medication that I would take for my issues that nicotine mostly deals with comes with ridiculous health warnings that make smoking look tame. I'm not sure "Guaranteed liver failure" wins over "increasing my risk of cancer a few percentage points". Especially given my family history. My doctors are understanding of my concerns.

      We are just being told this is evil and not looking at the full picture. I had a friend that was smoking in the mall one day (back when you could do that). A lady came up to him griping about his smoking near her kids. He just looked at her and said, "I bet you drove here in an SUV today." Yes was the response. "I bet you drove more than 15 minutes to get here." yes. "You do know, that in the 15 minute drive, you created more pollution than I'll create in a year of smoking a pack a day." She just walked off.

      I'll stop ranting now.

    49. Re:Ban smoking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are even cities (such as here in Manhattan Beach) where smoking is banned anywhere in public. The only places it's permitted is within your own home or inside of a *moving* vehicle.

    50. Re:Ban smoking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shut the fuck up, tubby. We all know the reason you feel entitled to drive your piece of shit gas guzzler is because you're fat and lazy.

      Also electric cars exist, so go buy one if it's such a necessity. Or better yet get a bicycle, you could certainly use the exercise.

    51. Re:Ban smoking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A pack of cigarettes here in California has cost around $6 to $7 per pack for over 15 years now. Maybe $2.50 of that is for the cigarettes, the rest is tax. California also has a proposition pending to further increase the tax on cigarettes an additional $2. That means $6.50 per pack is tax. That comes out to $35,587.50 in taxes paid by a pack-a-day smoker over the just past 15 years.

      And I know cigarettes are even more expensive in New York.

    52. Re:Ban smoking by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 1

      What our healthcare system in the US is being eaten up with is fake foods and obese people.

      Well, this issue is specifically fructose and addictive foods. A big issue is that corn is subsidized which means that stuff like HFCS is subsidized. The result is that processed foods is less expensive than many of crops. However, taxing sugars themselves is not the answer because you can have a healthy food with lots of sugar: e.g. apples. If you are going to tax something directly, we should be taxing based on glycemic load and fructose content. However, this brings up complicated issues like how much the tax should be, how it should adjust with time, how much it should cover, etcetera. The alternative is to tax indirectly which would be tracking what people buy and taxing companies based on their medical expenses based on correlations found. This is a massive feedback loop mechanism which is not limited by the date of the purchase and follows people throughout their lives. It's big, complicated and scary but it would force companies to think of what their product does to people versus how to make a quick buck. I also think we need to reform how companies/executives are held responsible for their actions but that's another discussion.

      --
      Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    53. Re:Ban smoking by allcoolnameswheretak · · Score: 1

      Please quote me where I have "dished it out"... dumbass.

      And just for the record, I am in my mid 30's, I have no drivers license, I have never owned a car. But yes, I live in Europe, not in the USA. In European culture, you don't need a car, especially not in the cities. So much for cars being essential.

    54. Re:Ban smoking by deadwill69 · · Score: 1

      I understand the natural sugars. I should have been more specific.

      Nifty approach on the tax/incentive. And yes, corporate governance has probably deteriorate so much that the rules should be rewritten.

    55. Re:Ban smoking by Fragnet · · Score: 1

      Did I compare the amount I paid in tax to the total cost of cancer medication? No. I compared the tax I paid to the total cost of cancer medicine minus the total cost of the extra years of life I would gain, mostly drawing pension payments. This is not including my biggest monthly bill which believe it or not isn't cigarette taxes but income and employment taxes. Tax on cigarettes is additional tax I pay.

      I'm very good at watching the pea under the thimble, so don't try that one on me again.

    56. Re:Ban smoking by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 1

      Did I compare the amount I paid in tax to the total cost of cancer medication? No. I compared the tax I paid to the total cost of cancer medicine minus the total cost of the extra years of life I would gain, mostly drawing pension payments.

      The problem is that this isn't about you but rather about smokers in general.

      This is not including my biggest monthly bill which believe it or not isn't cigarette taxes but income and employment taxes.

      And those taxes are allocated to many different things.

      Tax on cigarettes is additional tax I pay.

      Absolutely and that tax is not going to cover the cost of the medical bills when/if it gives you cancer.

      I'm very good at watching the pea under the thimble, so don't try that one on me again.

      The only thing I'm trying is to point out that smokers are a costly bunch of people to take care of when they get sick from smoking and that the cigarette tax isn't enough to make up for the amount you are taking out of the medical system. If everyone was a smoker and the resulting ill people were treated for cancer, it would bankrupt the medical system.

      --
      Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    57. Re:Ban smoking by Fragnet · · Score: 1

      The problem is that this isn't about you but rather about smokers in general.

      Smoking costs the NHS approximately £2 billion a year to treat. The tax raised on cigarettes is approximately £12.3 billion. That includes both excise and VAT. So even though I'm not counting the number of years lost in pension and care costs, smokers fund around 10% of the NHS budget spent treating illnesses other than those smoking related.

      I'm glad this whole thing has been cleared up.

    58. Re:Ban smoking by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 1

      Smoking costs the NHS approximately £2 billion a year to treat. The tax raised on cigarettes is approximately £12.3 billion.

      Ha! It's cute that you think this problem is limited to your country and that you act like it's always been like this.

      --
      Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    59. Re:Ban smoking by Fragnet · · Score: 1

      Stop moving the pea under the thimble. The solution to the problem for countries where it is a problem, is to increase excise on cigarettes until income approximately matches expense. That would probably be, I don't know, zero % if you take into account the approximately 5-6 years of extra pension someone who doesn't smoke will draw over someone who does. It just so happens that in the UK taxes are used to socially engineer the desirable outcome of nobody smoking. Personally I'm not a huge fan of health fascism but whatever - I'm in the minority (these days).

    60. Re:Ban smoking by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 1

      The solution to the problem for countries where it is a problem, is to increase excise on cigarettes until income approximately matches expense.

      i don't dispute this, i do dispute that it's already been adequately implemented.

      --
      Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    61. Re:Ban smoking by KingBenny · · Score: 1

      lol
      it doesnt really seem to impede the species as a whole to take over more than its share of the ecosystem anyway so whatever helps, helps, hm ?
      in as strange -only me- way i read into this article that the more people smoke the more chance we get at an actual beneficial evolution at the same time since it says nowhere that every mutation is harmful ?
      So, i would like to elaborate on or extend your proposition there. Me ive been off the damn things for over a year now. Pure happenstance. I woke up one day and i realized i hadnt smoked one in like two weeks so i said to myself "hell, why not keep that up, it sure as hell saves money, thats scientifically proven". So i did.
      Now, me, i've been a weird freak since i spent all the playtime in kindergarten back against the wall obseriving all those humans kicking plastic balls around and showing them theirs and imitating sirens and gunshots and whatnot, so as far as mutating goes i think i'm good.
      However , it looks like its finally proven there might be a cure for normality here so id tell the masses : SMOKE ON , as long as the manufacturers of anything addictive are required to invest x%
      you are boosting the world economy
      YAY!

      --
      Free speech was meant to be free for all... how can anyone grow up in a nanny state ?
    62. Re:Ban smoking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Education provides information, not intelligence. Intelligence is innate and cannot be learned.

  9. 20 fags per pack and 10 smokable hours a day by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How can anyone smoke that many fags a day? That's two fags an hour? Too many fags.

    Whaa?

    1. Re:20 fags per pack and 10 smokable hours a day by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 1

      You sleep 14 hours a day?

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
  10. Suicide cult by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Smoking is a breast-feeding fantasy: The cigarette is the nipple, the hand against your face is the breast, the smoke is the milk, and the most important part, the second-hand smoker is your mother. You can't breastfeed alone.

    1. Re: Suicide cult by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      /r/im14andthisisdeep

  11. Vonnegut by msauve · · Score: 4, Funny

    "The public health authorities never mention the main reason many Americans have for smoking heavily, which is that smoking is a fairly sure, fairly honorable form of suicide." - Kurt Vonnegut

    "Here's the news: I am going to sue the Brown & Williamson Tobacco Company, manufacturers of Pall Mall cigarettes, for a billion bucks! Starting when I was only twelve years old, I have never chain-smoked anything but unfiltered Pall Malls. And for many years now, right on the package, Brown & Williamson have promised to kill me. But I am eighty-two. Thanks a lot, you dirty rats. The last thing I ever wanted was to be alive when the three most powerful people on the whole planet would be named Bush, Dick and Colon." - Kurt Vonnegut

    --
    "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    1. Re:Vonnegut by Narcocide · · Score: 1

      Well, he didn't die of cancer, but his sister did...

  12. If you're going to kill yourself do it with style by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    and smoke the good stuff we do here: http://natsherman.com/

  13. I cured my nicotine addiction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    by switching to Oxycontin.

    1. Re:I cured my nicotine addiction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      by switching to Oxycontin.

      Nothing increases smoking cravings more than oxy...

  14. Isn't this assuming that everyone smokes the same? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Which they don't? Not everyone is an addicted chain smoker TBQH. Not everyone even feels an addiction to nicotine.

  15. I wonder ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...why we demonize smoking in the title .... while the primary source is clearly car usage (from the linked artilcle) FYI : i don't smoke.

  16. Can I force my niece to start smoking? by Snotnose · · Score: 1

    Cuz she's a non-smoker but a blister on the butt of society, and the sooner she's gone the better off the world is.

    1. Re:Can I force my niece to start smoking? by Snotnose · · Score: 1

      Awww, shit. That's what happens when you open your laptop to several emails on your fark comments, then you go elsewhere and aren't paying attention. Right sentiment, wrong forum.

  17. Pot by thisisauniqueid · · Score: 1

    Somebody please re-run these experiments specifically for marijuana. Somehow, pot-smokers have universally come to the conclusion that smoking burning cannabis leaves (without a filter) is not at all dangerous to them in any of the ways that smoking burning tobacco leaves (through a filter) is. I guarantee that the free radicals in cannabis smoke are every bit as dangerous as the free radicals in tobacco smoke.

    1. Re:Pot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The studies have been done and done and done, no thanks to US policy on the matter. and consistently fail to find long-term respiratory damage of any sort. The Jamaican study I believe spanned 30+ years, but you'll have to google all this yourself if you truly want a satisfactory answer.

      Right now, the favored theory is that the anti-tumor properties of some cannabis components are counteracting the damage that /should/ be there, but isn't.

    2. Re: Pot by FunkSoulBrother · · Score: 2

      Most of us just vape and eat edibles these days. Burning plant matter is passe

    3. Re: Pot by goarilla · · Score: 1

      Edibles are hard to dose. I still smoke occasionally because I like the aroma's burning gives.
      Also the effects of every method is slightly different.

    4. Re:Pot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The carcinogens in tobacco aren't due to the tobacco. They're mostly due to the curing process that makes the tobacco tastier and gives it a shelf life of forever.
      So yes, cannabis smoke is considerably less dangerous than tobacco, even if filters are used with the tobacco.

    5. Re:Pot by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Somehow, pot-smokers have universally come to the conclusion that smoking burning cannabis leaves (without a filter) is not at all dangerous to them in any of the ways that smoking burning tobacco leaves (through a filter) is.

      That's because studies keep coming out that universally come to the conclusion that smoking burning cannabis leaves (without a filter) is not at all dangerous to them in any of the ways that smoking burning tobacco leaves (through a filter) is.

      If you're mad that people are listening to scientific studies, perhaps you are an ignorant tool.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    6. Re: Pot by FunkSoulBrother · · Score: 1

      Edibles are hard to dose. I still smoke occasionally because I like the aroma's burning gives.
      Also the effects of every method is slightly different.

      They come nicely portioned into 5 or 10mg increments from my dispensary here in CO. This is why it's important to legalize and regulate substances instead of banning them in a panic.

  18. How many mutations for non smokers? by manu0601 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    How many mutation does a non smoker get during a year? The comparison would be interesting.

    1. Re:How many mutations for non smokers? by Trax3001BBS · · Score: 1

      How many mutation does a non smoker get during a year? The comparison would be interesting.

      If you live long enough you will get cancer, no matter your habits.

      A certain irreducible background incidence of cancer is to be expected regardless of circumstances: mutations can never be absolutely avoided, because they are an inescapable consequence of fundamental limitations on the accuracy of DNA replication, as discussed in Chapter 5. If a human could live long enough, it is inevitable that at least one of his or her cells would eventually accumulate a set of mutations sufficient for cancer to develop.

      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/bo...

    2. Re:How many mutations for non smokers? by Trax3001BBS · · Score: 1

      If you live long enough you will get cancer

      On the flip side it sure doesn't hurt to live in Poona/Nagpur India.
      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/b...

    3. Re:How many mutations for non smokers? by manu0601 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If you live long enough you will get cancer, no matter your habits

      Sure, we know death is a protection against cancer, but that does not answer the question. We are told smokers get 150 mutation a year, but how much does a non smoker get?

    4. Re:How many mutations for non smokers? by Trax3001BBS · · Score: 1

      If you live long enough you will get cancer, no matter your habits

      Sure, we know death is a protection against cancer, but that does not answer the question. We are told smokers get 150 mutation a year, but how much does a non smoker get?

      Guess you didn't see it, I sure can't. I followed up my post with a chart mentioning India wouldn't be a bad place to live.

      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/b...
      The date of the chart, 1993 from works done in 1987 (how I read it - bottom of chart).

      The chart doesn't break it into smoking and non-smoking, but I'd use the general population as reading above replies many don't smoke anymore. Even the article can't give you the question you desire as FTA "which contribute to different extents in different cancers".

      While DNA research has reached amazing levels, to contribute to many different cancers; one really can't do that much with, other than saying smoking is bad for you.

    5. Re:How many mutations for non smokers? by manu0601 · · Score: 1

      The chart is about incidence of cancers, not mutations.

      Cancer is the result of exposition to inducer factors (that cause mutations), and promoter factors (that help tumor growth). This means you can find two groups where one will have more mutations, but less cancers.

      Indian food is well known to be an effective tumor growth inhibitor, hence I am not surprised to see low cancer levels for India.

    6. Re:How many mutations for non smokers? by Trax3001BBS · · Score: 1

      The chart is about incidence of cancers, not mutations.

      Cancer is the result of exposition to inducer factors (that cause mutations), and promoter factors (that help tumor growth). This means you can find two groups where one will have more mutations, but less cancers.

      The chart was taken from the link I posted first, and it's all about the environment and mutations it can cause. Very interesting read, I came across it many years ago. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/b... (the chart is listed in first paragraph as Table 23-1)

      Indian food is well known to be an effective tumor growth inhibitor, hence I am not surprised to see low cancer levels for India.

      Nagasaki Japan with a high incidence of stomach cancer - go figure.

  19. Unscientific demonizing doesn't help by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No one would argue that smoking is a health risk, but I find it oddly irrational that no research has ever been done to distinguish the risk of pesticide/herbicide residue and other chemicals added to cigarettes. Tobacco is classified as a non-food crop. People ingest the smoke into their lungs, yet chemical use on the crop does not have the restrictions that food crops have. That seems to be connected more with a social rejection of smokers than with scientific reasoning. If we really want to reduce lung cancer wouldn't it make sense to at least restrict chemical additives in cigarettes and toxins sprayed on tobacco?

    1. Re:Unscientific demonizing doesn't help by Narcocide · · Score: 1

      Gosh, yes. R.I.P. Carl Sagan.

  20. Re:If you're going to kill yourself do it with sty by Trax3001BBS · · Score: 1

    and smoke the good stuff we do here: http://natsherman.com/

    Tad spendy if they don't list prices and have an FAQ answering "'WHY DO I PAY MORE FOR YOUR CIGARETTES?"

    http://www.az-smokes.com/ for those of us that don't need the glamour.

  21. cancer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    smoking is one of the main cause for cancer. It is leading more people to death. smoking causing cancer

  22. Other factors in smoking by allcoolnameswheretak · · Score: 1

    Every time I read an article like this I think we are oversimplifying things. How can it be that there are chain smokers that live well into old age, and light or non-smokers that die of lung and other cancers? Yes, there is some chance involved, but if you're a hard smoker, smoking a pack a day since you were 16, and every year you get so many mutations, shouldn't it hit you at some point? Yet there are people like This Guy who are heavy smokers and die at age 96.

    I think it also comes down to two different factors that are rarely mentioned, for some reason: the intensity of smoking and your personal immune system.
    Some people take the smoke deep in their lungs and keep it there for a while before exhaling, and some people don't let the smoke reach their lungs at all. It has to make a huge difference if you smoke a pack a day this or the other way.

    And also so many things come down to your personal immune system? Are you a sickly person? Pale and not feeling very well on most days? Perhaps you should better not take up smoking if your immune system is struggling even without the cell defects. On the other hand, if you have a strong immune system of a healthy individual, your body might be able to cope with the damages of smoking very well and perhaps even make up for most of it.

    These two factors must be critically important in relation to smoking disease, yet I rarely find them even mentioned.

    1. Re:Other factors in smoking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Intensity of smoking is studied and plays a factor. See any study anywhere. This one here, in particular, cites a pack a day.
      Personal immune system has absolutely nothing to do with cancer rates though. Someone who's often sickly might die more easily to a secondary infection while cancer-ridden, but the immune system can neither protect against cancer nor fix it.
      The reason some people smoke heavily and live to 96 can be explained by pure random chance. Each mutation, depending on the random nature of the mutation, may or may not become cancerous. The odds of any one person surviving 10,000 mutations and remaining cancer-free might be 1 in 1000, or it might be 1 in 2. I don't know the statistics. But even if it's 1 in 10,000 of surviving, in a population of millions of smokers you'll always find those people who've smoked three packs a day for 60 years and are still alive. That's the nature of pure random chance. Every outcome eventually occurs if the sample size is large enough.

    2. Re:Other factors in smoking by Gilgaron · · Score: 3, Informative

      While you're largely correct, it isn't quite true that the immune system has no impact on cancer. Your T cells are involved in cell mediated immune response and clear out cells that are precancerous or infected with viruses. Cancer occurs when the T cells are depleted by disease and cannot kill off the precancerous cells or once the precancerous cells mutate sufficiently that they can reproduce uncontrolled while simultaneously evading the immune response. So, if the cells are reproducing uncontrolled but continue to respond when the T cells inform the cells they should kill themselves, you don't have cancer... but you're more at risk than someone who doesn't have uncontrolled growth. Once they stop responding to the apoptosis inducers and/or the T cells can't recognize them as being off, then you have a problem.

    3. Re:Other factors in smoking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Every time I read an article like this I think we are oversimplifying things. How can it be that there are chain smokers that live well into old age, and light or non-smokers that die of lung and other cancers? Yes, there is some chance involved, but if you're a hard smoker, smoking a pack a day since you were 16, and every year you get so many mutations, shouldn't it hit you at some point? Yet there are people like This Guy who are heavy smokers and die at age 96.

      I think it also comes down to two different factors that are rarely mentioned, for some reason: the intensity of smoking and your personal immune system.
      Some people take the smoke deep in their lungs and keep it there for a while before exhaling, and some people don't let the smoke reach their lungs at all. It has to make a huge difference if you smoke a pack a day this or the other way.

      And also so many things come down to your personal immune system? Are you a sickly person? Pale and not feeling very well on most days? Perhaps you should better not take up smoking if your immune system is struggling even without the cell defects. On the other hand, if you have a strong immune system of a healthy individual, your body might be able to cope with the damages of smoking very well and perhaps even make up for most of it.

      These two factors must be critically important in relation to smoking disease, yet I rarely find them even mentioned.

      everything with cancer etiologies is really about odds. the human body is extremely good at finding and eliminating pre-neoplastic cells, and/or neoplastic cells. there's a ton of checkpoints in a cell that have to be eliminated in some way for a cell to become fully transformed. most have multiple redundancies.

      that takes time, cell divisions and genetic instability. the instability is already inherent in the system....dna breaks down by itself plus the enzymes for replication make a mistake every 10million base pairs or so that may not be proofread correctly. if you add a mutation increaser like smoking, or excess pyrimidine dimers from UV exposure, you increase the chance that the 30 or so serial mutations can occur in a cell for it to become cancer.

        immune system invisibility is one of those hallmarks of cancer that has to occur for the tumor to gain a foothold. otherwise it will get obliterated. that's why anti-pd1 immunotherapy is so exciting. it's a major player in that camouflaging.

      even though cancer rates are like 1 in 2.7 or something it's actually incredibly rare considering the sheer number of cells and divisions in a human over the course of their lifetime. plus once you have kids that are self-sufficient you're just competing with your own offspring for finite resources. you no longer matter and need to die the fuck off.

    4. Re:Other factors in smoking by micahraleigh · · Score: 1

      What ?? What do you think immunotherapy is?

      There are literally BILLIONS of dollars pouring into it and it is being described by MDs as a "cure" for cancer - not a treatment.

      Recommend watching Ken Burn's Cancer documentary on Netflix.

  23. Really? by nospam007 · · Score: 1

    Breathing in radioactive polonium containing smoke can do nice things for you.

  24. Fucking addicts and their excuses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    People often try to deflect by saying "ban booze too!", but last time I checked, beer belches don't make people second-hand drunk.

    1. Re:Fucking addicts and their excuses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But drunk driving makes you second-hand dead.

    2. Re: Fucking addicts and their excuses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just ban everything, everywhere. That will solve all of our problems. Don't try to deflect, you're just being part of the problem.

  25. So black and white... by shellster_dude · · Score: 1

    I love how the anti-smoking crowd is so black and white.
    If you smoke you're an addict.
    If you smoke you'll get cancer and die
    If you smoke you'll give cancer to everyone around you
    If you vape, you'll also get cancer and die, and give it to everyone around you.
    If you smoke you'll be come more addicted than a crack addict.

    Second hand smoke has never been thoroughly proven, when given the levels of tobacco smoke a person can reasonably expect to encounter. I enjoy a pipe or a cigar no more than once a month, but my doctor and insurance company treat it like I'm a two packs a day guy. I've been smoking an occasional cigar for years, never once have I ever run into some sort of addictive quality.

    I have vaped in the past. All indication from serious studies on the matter are that nicotine by itself is a relatively harmless stimulant, with some actual positive benefits. It's bad for pregnancy, and some of the glycol solutions and heating elements may be bad for you, but again, we're talking extremely small doses, even if you regularly vape.

    I love getting lectured about how I a terrible human being for occasionally enjoying tobacco and nicotine by a bunch hippies telling me about the miracles of pot, that will cure everything that ales you, and has no bad long term effects...

  26. Smoking what? by RogueWarrior65 · · Score: 1

    I'm waiting for a study that says the same thing about pot (soooo disgusting...way more than tobacco) and vaping.

  27. baseline? by fish_in_the_c · · Score: 1

    so, how many mutations per day/year does the average non smoker accumulate in the same tissues?
    aka How far is this from the baseline ?
    Increased risk would after all be a function of the difference between the baseline mutations and the change caused by the factor being studied. I suspect the assumption that NO mutation occurs without tobacco would be a serious error, or at least require some serious proof.

    --
    âoeTolerance applies only to persons, but never to truth. Intolerance applies only to truth, but never to persons.
  28. Radiation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As part of some research I was doing into a possible radiation exposure incident I found some studies that showed that radiation exposure due to smoking is significant, perhaps the most significant carcinogen, most of which comes from soil. I wonder if anyone has tried to develop low radiation tobacco?

  29. Counterpoint by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Smoking will will give you DNA induced superpowers.

  30. Wake Up America ( Score: -5, PatRIOTic ) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  31. I think in the UK he's right by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    They don't pay the crazy sums for health care that we do (single payer's a _lot_ less costly). Their gov't doesn't allow their drug companies to gouge their population. He's probably paying about $2800/yr in taxes if he's a pack a day guy and health care costs (per citizen) about $1800 (pounds, not dollars, but I'm a yank so I don't have a pound key :P).

    Now, there's the little matter of ignoring all the incidental costs to smoking. The big one that I see is that tobacco _destroys_ land. It's a very water, labor and resource intensive crop and the nicotine poisons the soil. Not sure about the UK but in the states we heavily subsidize it, basically negating the taxes. Basically, food costs more (because land and water goes to tobacco) and subsidies negate the value of the taxes. None of this might be true in the UK though.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re:I think in the UK he's right by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 1

      They don't pay the crazy sums for health care that we do (single payer's a _lot_ less costly). Their gov't doesn't allow their drug companies to gouge their population.

      indeed, this means their healthcare system is paying the cost for him and that money comes from taxes.

      --
      Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.