ESA Launches Four Galileo Satellites (fortune.com)

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ESA Launches Four Galileo Satellites (fortune.com)

Posted by BeauHD on Thursday November 17, 2016 @07:00PM from the mission-success dept.

The European Space Agency (ESA) has launched four additional Galileo satellites in to orbit on Thursday -- the first time the ESA has sent up so many satellites at once. The satellites will be used to thrust the EU into the global market for satellite navigation services, which it estimates will be worth 250 billion euros ($267 billion) by 2022, according to Fortune. The program has encountered some turbulence since the EU gave the go ahead with Galileo 16 years ago. In 2014, two Galileo satellites were launched into a wrong, lower orbit. As for today's launch, Slashdot reader nojayuk shares an excerpt from the ESA website: An Ariane 5 rocket has launched four additional Galileo satellites, accelerating deployment of the new satellite navigation system. The Ariane 5, operated by Arianespace, lifted off from Europe's Spaceport in Kourou, French Guiana at 13:06 GMT (14:06 CET, 10:06 local time) carrying Galileo satellites 15-18. The first pair was released 3 hours 35 minutes and 44 seconds after liftoff, while the second separated 20 minutes later. The Galileos are at their target altitude, after a flawless release from the new dispenser designed to handle four satellites. This was the first flight of a heavy-lift ES-variant of the Ariane V since the ATV resupply missions to the ISS. Previously Galileo satellites have been launched in pairs by Soyuz-Fregat craft from French Guiana. Two additional Ariane 5 launches each carrying four Galileo satellites are scheduled in 2017 and 2018. The full system of 24 satellites plus spares is expected to be in place by 2020.

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aha! by e432776 · 2016-11-17 19:05 · Score: 0

and I launch first post!
it estimates will be worth 250 billion euros by frovingslosh · 2016-11-17 19:23 · Score: 3, Interesting

which it estimates will be worth 250 billion euros
It might cost 250 billion euros to build yet another positioning system, but with the Americans and the Russians both making their commercial quality systems available for free, is a third system really worth 250 billion euros? Particularly since we no longer hobble GPS system accuracy. Sure, if money doesn't matter then Europe can say they want toys of their own, but it seems to me that there is no revenue stream here and perhaps someone could have come up with a better use for 250 billion euro than building a third redundant positioning system. I can think of a few things if they just want to save the effort and send the money to me.

--
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
1. Re: it estimates will be worth 250 billion euros by Sique · 2016-11-17 19:36 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  Actually, both GPS and GLONASS are not free. If you build equipment which can use GPS or GLONASS, you have to pay a license fee.
  
  --
  .sig: Sique *sigh*
2. Re: it estimates will be worth 250 billion euros by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-17 19:51 · Score: 0
  
  Im ready to send the money ro you now. Please provide a concise summary of your spending plan.
3. Re: it estimates will be worth 250 billion euros by imidan · 2016-11-17 20:06 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  The European Galileo constellation can be used in conjunction with American GPS and Russian GLONASS to provide more accurate positioning fixes to receivers that are capable of using the multiple systems. Furthermore, different regional powers may benefit more by having satellites in somewhat different orbits than others, owing to the geographic distributions of their areas of influence. In addition, the various nations fielding these systems recognize strategic value in them, in that they can continue to use their system if a hostile government reduces or eliminates availability of their own. Redundancy is not a bad thing, and the nations involved in launching these systems are continuing to improve their functionality.
4. Re: it estimates will be worth 250 billion euros by ledow · 2016-11-17 20:22 · Score: 1
  
  Galileo base consumer functionality is free too.
  Like GPS and GLONASS.
  Fact is, it's not your car satnav that's paying for the satellite constellation - at best it pays a minimal licence on the technology.
  It's military, shipping, search-and-rescue and even emergency-message-relay (read: every airline on the planet) and other commercial uses that pay for it, and those don't have upper limits on their budgets and they are also willing to pay for a superior system.
  And Galileo is quite superior to anything in the GPS constellation.
  Otherwise, to the average person, Galileo is just another GPS satellite in the sky.
5. Re: it estimates will be worth 250 billion euros by MayeulC · 2016-11-17 20:32 · Score: 1
  
  This. I also want to add that Galileo is (to my knowledge) the only satellite system that's not designed with military usage in mind. That is, not as its primary usage.
  They expect quite a lot of commercial contracts for full precision (I don't even know if this one is available to private parties with GPS), but I would be surprised if they were able to get the necessary return on investment, given the multiple setbacks the project went trough. I am all for the project regardless, as a taxpayer. It will improve "GPS" navigation for everyone (and the basic usage is free, AFAIK, with unencrypted signals). The only thing that bothers me is that we might have to replace our equipment to be able to enjoy this new system (not even sure about this one, it might depend on the manufacturer, but we were promised GNSS interoperability).
6. Re: it estimates will be worth 250 billion euros by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-17 20:36 · Score: 0
  
  So should the Linux freeloaders for using all that IP...
7. Re: it estimates will be worth 250 billion euros by AHuxley · 2016-11-17 20:40 · Score: 1
  
  All that Ada code is not free.
  
  --
  Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
8. Re: it estimates will be worth 250 billion euros by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-17 20:49 · Score: 0
  
  What IP? Quit being so stupid.
9. Re: it estimates will be worth 250 billion euros by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-17 20:57 · Score: 0
  
  It might cost 250 billion euros to build yet another positioning system, but with the Americans and the Russians both making their commercial quality systems available for free, is a third system really worth 250 billion euros?
  As the war in Iraq proved the American system isn't reliable. It will be tampered with whenever the US military wants it and relying on it causes problems.
  So the question isn't really if it is worth it when the other systems are around. The question is if it is worth it when the other systems aren't around.
  Russia seems to think so, that is why they made their own. China seems to think so, that is why they made their own.
  The interesting thing with the European system is that the power structure around it means that there is not single nation or single military that have the authority to mess with it. This means that civilian services can rely on it.
  Another question that could be asked is if the other systems really were worth the money that went into them since so many find them unreliable?
10. Re: it estimates will be worth 250 billion euros by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-17 21:20 · Score: 0
  
  even emergency-message-relay (read: every airline on the planet)
  
  If that were true, we would have found MH 370 by now.
11. Re: it estimates will be worth 250 billion euros by Zoxed · 2016-11-17 21:40 · Score: 1
  
  > with the Americans and the Russians both making their commercial quality systems available for free, is a third system really worth 250 billion euros?
  Are you saying that the Americans would be happy to turn off their GPS and trust in using Russian or Euro GPS for military operations ?
  Also Galileo is supposed to provide better coverage at Northern lats.
  > Particularly since we no longer hobble GPS system accuracy
  Put presumably it could be turned off at any time if the US wanted to block access ?
  And especially in a world-of-Trump and -Putin do you think we Europeans would be happy relying on US/Russian sats ?
12. Re: it estimates will be worth 250 billion euros by K.+S.+Kyosuke · 2016-11-17 21:44 · Score: 0
  
  Are you really claiming that a positioning system is supposed to cost about as much as the whole Space Shuttle and ISS projects together?
  
  --
  Ezekiel 23:20
13. Re: it estimates will be worth 250 billion euros by K.+S.+Kyosuke · 2016-11-17 21:51 · Score: 0
  
  COSPAS-SARSAT works. Ask MH-370 airplane's beacon manufacturer why their product failed.
  
  --
  Ezekiel 23:20
14. Re: it estimates will be worth 250 billion euros by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-17 21:52 · Score: 0
  
  Galileo, upon its completion, will have a 2-way emergency message relay system. This is incredible as it will work anywhere on the planet and is an *open* system. You won't have to pay yourself sick for Iridium access just to guarantee yours and others' safety in remote areas without cell coverage.
15. Re: it estimates will be worth 250 billion euros by cdrudge · 2016-11-17 21:54 · Score: 2
  
  If you build equipment which can use GPS or GLONASS, you have to pay a license fee.
  Citation please
16. Re: it estimates will be worth 250 billion euros by thegarbz · 2016-11-17 21:58 · Score: 1
  
  Redundant? Who said redundant? All I see is a complementary system allowing for even greater positioning accuracy.
  
  I can think of a few things if they just want to save the effort and send the money to me.
  Of course, because your pet project should take priority over a this one, and it is specifically this project that is a waste of money.
17. Re: it estimates will be worth 250 billion euros by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-17 22:01 · Score: 1
  
  It might cost 250 billion euros to build yet another positioning system
  What the hell are you talking about? The Galileo global positioning system will have cost an estimated 5 billion EUR upon its completion. The 250 billion EUR is an estimate of how big the business built around the system will be worth.
  As a EU citizen I'm glad we'll finally have our own shit in the sky too. The GPS is a security concern as it's controlled by the US and they could limit access to the system at any time they want.
  I hope Trump breaks up NATO so we can finally deepen our internal military cooperation too, maybe form joint forces and start integrating the union. It's all possible now that the UK threw a hissy fit and left. Don't worry Scotland, you're welcome to join any time you guys choose.
18. Re: it estimates will be worth 250 billion euros by JaredOfEuropa · 2016-11-17 22:17 · Score: 1
  
  A lot of mobile phones sold today already support both GPS and GLONASS. I expect that at some point the nav chip manufacturers will simply add support for Galileo.
  
  --
  If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
19. Re: it estimates will be worth 250 billion euros by nojayuk · 2016-11-17 22:27 · Score: 1
  
  Accuracy per se isn't the real advantage of adding Galileo to the existing Navstar and Glonass global positioning satellite networks since better fix data is more dependent on correction overlay services like WAAS in the US and EGNOS in Europe, using fixed ground stations to provide extra accuracy information to GPS receivers allowing, for example, safe automatic landing of aircraft and shipping movements through restricted waters.
  The main benefit of having a lot more GPS satellites in orbit is in places such as cities and mountainous regions where the skyview is restricted and it is possible to lose simultaneous line-of-sight to the four satellites required for a correct position/altitude/velocity result. More satellites means fewer blackouts for a given receiver in such situations.
20. Re: it estimates will be worth 250 billion euros by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-17 23:16 · Score: 0
  
  I have used receivers capable of demodulating the Galileo signal. I hope the clock precision/accuracy of the system can be improved, as the weighted least squares weights of the Galileo sats in the position calculation unit almost always converges to a very low value in the presence of GPS and GLONASS.
21. Re: it estimates will be worth 250 billion euros by Rei · 2016-11-18 00:03 · Score: 1
  
  Unfortunately, countries like Spain are actively working against Scotland getting a direct pass into the EU, as they don't want to encourage their own separatist regions.
  As for the stability of the EU, let's wait and see what happens with Le Pen before we start proclaiming a new post-Brexit era of inter-EU cooperation.
  And NATO breaking up/US becoming isolationist (or reversing alliances) would lead to terrible consequences, including a massive spike in global military spending, resumption of production of nuclear weapons in countries that had previously stopped, and new countries producing nuclear weapons.
  All of that said, indeed, kudos to the ESA. It's a start, although the ESA still has some serious problems, including a tiny budget (compared to NASA) and an internal culture that's far too closed / resistant to sharing information.
  
  --
  Wingus, Dingus! Listen up!
22. Re: it estimates will be worth 250 billion euros by fche · 2016-11-18 00:19 · Score: 2
  
  [citation needed]
23. Re: it estimates will be worth 250 billion euros by TheRaven64 · 2016-11-18 00:19 · Score: 1
  
  Phones support GLONASS because Russia made it a requirement that anything that supports GPS and is sold in Russia must also support GLONASS. It's far cheaper to build a single unit that supports both than to give up on the Russian market entirely or build special GLONASS versions, so any phone that might be sold in Russia supports both. It will be interesting to see if the EU adds a similar requirement for Galileo.
  I'm still quite surprised to see Galileo is going ahead. I remember seeing presentations about it at the Farnborough Air Show two decades ago. Back then, GPS receivers were expensive and the commercial ones had really crappy accuracy (and the web was a thing geeks used via modems). The world has changed a lot since then.
  
  --
  I am TheRaven on Soylent News
24. Re: it estimates will be worth 250 billion euros by Bearhouse · 2016-11-18 00:20 · Score: 1
  
  Whilst it's depressing that this is the typical European cluster-fuck in implementation, (they've been working on it since 2005; first test launch and won't be fully operational until 2020 earliest) it actually may not be the waste of resources it seems.
  Yes, the US, Russia and China (India too, maybe) have established systems, but the way the world and its established alliances is going to shit recently, (will Trump really eviscerate NATO?), its looks like a smart decision.
  Don't forget, pretty much everything that moves these days uses some form of GPS. Kids and truck drivers can't read maps any more, even if you could still find them in shops and gas stations.
  It also adds some useful functionality for "only" $5Bn.
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
25. Re: it estimates will be worth 250 billion euros by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-18 00:44 · Score: 0
  
  Using the P (precision) code apparently uses 'encrypted' PRN codes and that seems to change with time, but the 'key' (or just sequence offset?) seems not to be in the navigation messages. L1 C/A (coarse acquisition) is free, which is what basically everyone uses. I think the new L5 is free too, but most receivers are just using L1. I've never looked at the specs for what exactly is carried on the (original) L2, and I've never seen a commodity antenna for the L2 frequency either... But yes, there is a service on GPS that seems to be pay for play.
26. Re: it estimates will be worth 250 billion euros by DarenN · 2016-11-18 00:53 · Score: 1
  
  Basic misreading of the summary there, old chap (or chapette). The market for Global Positioning services is estimated to be worth 250 billion euro a year by 2020, but this is not the cost of Galileo.
  It was budgeted at 3.4 billion euro which turned out to be, er, optimistic - it looks now like it will be somewhere between 5.5 and 7 billion euro (including the running costs for 20 years in that brings it up to ~20 billion). On the flip side, approximately 7% of EU GDP is dependent on satellite navigation worth a total of 800 billion.
  
  --
  Rational thought is the only true freedom
27. Re: it estimates will be worth 250 billion euros by JaredOfEuropa · 2016-11-18 00:54 · Score: 1
  
  GLONASS provides better accuracy at higher latitudes, so requiring support for it helps Russian customers as well. It makes sense for Russia to demand this in order to promote adoption. I doubt that this was the deciding factor for the manufacturers though; supporting multiple systems is dirt cheap and would benefit customers in other regions as well, it's a good selling point.
  
  I suppose Europe still sees a benefit in having our own GPS, rather than having to rely on either the US or the Russian system. The world has changed indeed, and GPS is now in such widespread use that losing access (or no longer having the high accuracy version) would have a real economic impact.
  
  --
  If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
28. Re: it estimates will be worth 250 billion euros by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-18 01:14 · Score: 0
  
  And there you have it, smart ass
  https://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=9895301&cid=53312457
29. Re: it estimates will be worth 250 billion euros by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-18 01:32 · Score: 0
  
  Transaction 1: 250 Billion Euro "donation" to offshore account.
  How's that for a spending plan?
30. Re: it estimates will be worth 250 billion euros by jrumney · 2016-11-18 01:40 · Score: 2
  
  After a point, greater accuracy no longer comes from tracking more satellites, but from more detailed analysis of the signals they are sending. With GPS, Glonass and Baidu already fully operational and various SBAS systems augmenting them, Galileo is really only about the EU saving face, after spending so long talking, and meanwhile the US dropped their random error that made consumer grade GPS unpredictable, and China has joined the party from nowhere, with Japan. and India making the sensible decision to concentrate on regional augmentation rather than developing full constellations of their own.
31. Re: it estimates will be worth 250 billion euros by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-18 01:57 · Score: 0
  
  America and Russia *choose* not to hobble or block their satellite navigation systems right now. Frankly as a European, neither of those two powers can be trusted to use their authority wisely so Europe absolutely does need an independent system. It is all kind of redundant anyway with the new abilities of satellite killer missiles.
32. Re: it estimates will be worth 250 billion euros by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-18 02:49 · Score: 0
  
  It doesn't really matter, since the US can easily muscle the EU into degrading Galileo's capabilities if it enables the US adversaries in any way.
33. Re: it estimates will be worth 250 billion euros by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-18 02:51 · Score: 0
  
  But... But... But... YOOROP!!!
34. Re: it estimates will be worth 250 billion euros by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-18 02:52 · Score: 0
  
  The first ones are already on the market, and will support Galileo when it comes online with a firmware update.
  https://www.gsa.europa.eu/newsroom/news/first-european-galileo-ready-smartphone-hit-stores-july
  Metre accuracy and fast fix are attractive to all sorts of autonomy ideas, and knowing it won't be turned off when the Amercians and Russians declare a thumb war is a relief.
35. Re: it estimates will be worth 250 billion euros by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-18 02:57 · Score: 0
  
  This is unfortunately where the whole exercise becomes futile: if either Russia or the US (my money is on the US pulling off this) requires the EU to limit Galileo's capabilities or turn it off entirely, the EU has no choice but to comply or see its billions of euros of investment's worth blown out of the skies, and the debris making those orbits unavailable.
36. Re: it estimates will be worth 250 billion euros by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-18 04:03 · Score: 0
  
  You can discuss if you want to take their word for it, but the newer GPS satellites supposedly have no capability for degrading the civilian signal, with the plan being that jammers will be used instead if necessary.
  Admittedly it would be some time before sufficient GPS satellites have been replaced with these newer ones, and the US might not have done that if there hadn't been the risk of competing systems making GPS irrelevant longer-term, but still the risk is at least much smaller than you suggest.
37. Re: it estimates will be worth 250 billion euros by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-18 04:41 · Score: 0
  
  Whilst it's depressing that this is the typical European cluster-fuck in implementation, (they've been working on it since 2005; first test launch and won't be fully operational until 2020 earliest)
  GLONASS was started in 76, and didn't really have a full constellation in 91 when the collapse of USSR created a speed bump in the implementation, leaving it partially functioning. GPS was started in 73, and block I was finished launching in 86, which was only 10 satellites, 2 less than the 12 USSR had in 91. India was slightly faster with their system, starting in 96 and done by 2016, but it was only 7 satellites. China had their first launch in 2000 (I don't know when they started the project), and won't have a global system until 2020.
  15 years for a 20+ satellite network seems rather reasonable, regardless of the funding fighting that happened with Galileo. Also, this wasn't the first test launch, the test launches were in 2011 and 2012. This is the first launch of fully operational units.
38. Re: it estimates will be worth 250 billion euros by fche · 2016-11-18 05:40 · Score: 2
  
  Nothing in that thread substantiates the claim that "if you build equipment which can use GPS or GLONASS, you have to pay a license fee.".
39. Re: it estimates will be worth 250 billion euros by thegarbz · 2016-11-18 07:17 · Score: 1
  
  After a point
  After which point? A point well in the future, probably well after the full Galileo constellation is finished.
  You're right. But it's 2016, not 2030.
40. Re: it estimates will be worth 250 billion euros by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-18 10:41 · Score: 0
  
  I don't care about Spain, I'm sure Catalonia can manage and join us as an independent nation. Spain will overcome it and we can still be one.
41. Re: it estimates will be worth 250 billion euros by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-18 11:01 · Score: 0
  
  "do you think we Europeans would be happy relying on US/Russian sats" The Europeans seem happy enough relying on the US for military protection so what's the big deal about a GPS system?
  Trumps position on NATO revolves around the US contributing 70% of NATO funding and it may be time for a few member states to meet their funding obligations to NATO. Trump may also ask why the US contributes 22% of the UN budget while countries like China and Russia don't even make it into the top 10. Maybe membership on the UN Security committee should be predicated on how much money a country is contributing to the UN.
  And if the US started blocking access then WW3 would most likely have begun and we would have more important things to worry about.
42. Re: it estimates will be worth 250 billion euros by RockDoctor · 2016-11-19 12:36 · Score: 1
  
  In a locally recognisable form :
  Line 1 : Nobody trusted the Americans to not switch their GPS system back to military-only operation at the drop of a military or financial hat.
  Line 2 : The Russians responded by building their own system. Line 3 : GOTO Line 1 ; s/Americans/Russians/ ; s/GPS/GLONASS/ ; GOTO Line 2 ; s/Russians/Chinese/ ; ECHO Line 1 ; ECHO Line 2. Line 4 : GOTO Line 1 ; s/Russians/Chinese ; s/GLONASS/Chinese\ system/ ; GOTO Line 2 ; s/Chinese/Europeans/ ; ECHO Line 1 ; ECHO Line 2.
  You might claim that no one thinks the Americans, Russians or Chinese would be insane enough to do that. But making that claim while looking at Trump AND Putin AND keeping a straight face is going to be hard to achieve. Whether the swarms of Chinese and European apparatchiks would be any less insane en masse ... well that's a good question. Personally, I still know how to navigate with a map and compass. And drawing my own map first would be a "not again", not a "how?"
  
  --
  Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
43. Re: it estimates will be worth 250 billion euros by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-19 16:27 · Score: 0
  
  A eoropean speed bump was the US. We wanted to be able to deny GPS to adversaries when desired. The europeans were not inclined to cooperate with the technical requirements
44. Re: it estimates will be worth 250 billion euros by dave420 · 2016-11-21 01:06 · Score: 1
  
  Spain has repeatedly stated that they have no problem with two countries mutually deciding to split and parts thereof entering into the EU. Spain doesn't want one-sided separations getting traction, as that's the separation type they're worried about.
14,900 mile high orbit , yeah right by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-17 20:03 · Score: 0

If it were actual required to be that high, why would you need more than 3 satellites for global coverage.
1. Re:14,900 mile high orbit , yeah right by MayeulC · 2016-11-17 20:21 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  For triangulation; you need at least four satellite at any given time (3D triangulation + time synchronization). Hence, a lot more satellites. Plus, you want some for redundancy.
2. Re:14,900 mile high orbit , yeah right by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-17 20:27 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  Sorry for nitpicking: Satellite navigation systems actually use trilateration (measurement of distances), not triangulation (measurement of angles)...
3. Re:14,900 mile high orbit , yeah right by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-17 21:45 · Score: 1
  
  As others have said, you need to be able to see four satellites just to get a position.
  But 14900 miles is not far away, and even the Sun, which is many orders of magnitude further away is only visible to about half the planet at once. So even at that distance you would still need at least 8 satellites (4 on each side). Never mind that you can't put anything in a earth-orbit at that distance (it would become a Sun orbit, which would be completely useless).
4. Re:14,900 mile high orbit , yeah right by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-17 23:43 · Score: 0
  
  Yep, with only three satellites you can only limit your position to two points. One which is outside of orbit.
5. Re:14,900 mile high orbit , yeah right by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-18 00:17 · Score: 0
  
  Also, the satellite doesn't just have to be visible - it has to be well above the horizon. (Ionospheric dispersion causes problems for satellites at low elevations.)
6. Re:14,900 mile high orbit , yeah right by ledow · 2016-11-18 00:43 · Score: 2
  
  Because "global" also includes the poles.
  Which means not just three around the equator, but three around orbiting on several planes through the center of Earth.
  And three is the minimum VISIBLE to get some vague idea of location but if you want the 1cm accuracy they are offering (yep, encrypted service is down to 1cm), then you need more than the bare minimum, especially if you're going to be under a cloud, or in a city with tall buildings. So that's at least 4 on each plane you cut through the Earth, and probably 4-5 planes to ensure globality.
  Plus spares. Plus more for better accuracy.
7. Re:14,900 mile high orbit , yeah right by stud9920 · 2016-11-18 00:58 · Score: 1
  
  We're the UE, and like 95% of the world we have our orbits in km, thankyouverymuch
8. Re:14,900 mile high orbit , yeah right by stealth_finger · 2016-11-18 02:34 · Score: 1
  
  Go get a ball and 3 things and arrange them in a fashion that all three things can be seen from all places on the ball at all times. I'll wait right here.
  
  --
  Wanna buy a shirt?
  https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
9. Re:14,900 mile high orbit , yeah right by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-18 06:46 · Score: 0
  
  Three geostationary spacecraft at longitudes separated with 120 deg can cover the whole Earth except the extreme polar regions
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_observation_satellite
Profit! by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-17 20:30 · Score: 1

Well, the european union might think they have a business case. Maybe they're right, maybe they're wrong. But the combination of GPS,Glonass and Galileo (Heh, 3G reference) will give global consumers more options, hopefully will allow for greater precision and will make positioning services less prone to being unavailable due to political issues.
I think we as consumers win. So way to go :)
"ESA" launches? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-17 22:55 · Score: 0

I love it when you write "ESA", and when you mean:
- paid for by EC
- satellites built by OHB
- rocket built by Airbus
- launched by arianespace
1. Re:"ESA" launches? by DarenN · 2016-11-18 00:56 · Score: 1
  
  The program is managed by the ESA.
  
  --
  Rational thought is the only true freedom
2. Re:"ESA" launches? by stud9920 · 2016-11-18 01:02 · Score: 2
  
  How's this different from NASA or DOD launched sats ? Do you really think some dudes from the Pentagon personally launched GPS ?
Chip support for cell phones by Midnight+Thunder · 2016-11-18 01:51 · Score: 1

Does anyone have any information on when we should starting seeing cellphones support Galileo? Most phones I have seen only support GPS and GLONASS. There are other constellations out there, but they aren't really supported.

--
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
Funny American use of "first" by Alomex · 2016-11-18 01:53 · Score: 2

This is a funny use of the term "first" invented by Americans:

This was the first flight of a heavy-lift ES-variant of the Ariane V since the ATV resupply missions to the ISS.
The rest of the world would have phrased this as: the previous flight of the Ariane V was the resupply mission to the ISS.
1. Re:Funny American use of "first" by stealth_finger · 2016-11-18 02:45 · Score: 1
  
  Well, this is the first comment I've typed since the last comment I typed.
  
  --
  Wanna buy a shirt?
  https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
2. Re:Funny American use of "first" by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-18 05:20 · Score: 0
  
  Another world's first!
Political decision originally. by eionmac · 2016-11-19 22:07 · Score: 1

The decision to build the system was taken when USA did not make GPS positioning available to others with a sufficient degree of accuracy thus EU for both military and normal use wanted its own system, so withdrawal of USA system would not leave EU 'incompetent'. So much reliance is now made of GPS that many services would break if not available - ambulance, police, heavy transport and civil cars, taxis (I doubt ability of new incomers to know streets without GPS, this raises the occasional 'wrong delivery' to the wrong town but that adds to the store of news). Not as wrong as airline tickets to Birmingham Alabama instead or Birmingham UK but accuracy of use depends on the human at the end.

--
Regards Eion MacDonald