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London's Mayor Wants Volkswagen To Pay $3 Million In Lost Tolls (citiesofthefuture.eu)
dkatana writes: Since the U.K. government has done nothing to make Volkswagen pay for Dieselgate, Sadiq Khan, the Mayor of London, is asking VW to come up with 2.5 million pounds ($3 million) to compensate the city and its residents for the 80,000 diesel cars fitted with cheat devices. "I want to see a proper commitment from them [VW] to fully compensate the thousands of Londoners who bought Volkswagen cars in good faith, but whose diesel engines are now contributing to London's killer air."
The money will be used to fund a new air-quality program for London's schoolchildren, and Mayor Khan is also asking the government to create "a national diesel scrappage" program to help replace vehicles.
The money will be used to fund a new air-quality program for London's schoolchildren, and Mayor Khan is also asking the government to create "a national diesel scrappage" program to help replace vehicles.
You lose your trolls and you can't find them? They're under some bridge, you shit. Stop blaming the Jerries for everything. Unless they were Jewish trolls. In that case you might be onto something.
The mental anguish of seeing all those cheat devices...I want to see a proper commitment from them [VW] to fully compensate me for this hardship.
England doesn't have "programs". It's called a programme, darn it.
Government official wants money he didn't earn. Says he has good reason why he should be allowed to spend it on his priorities.
It's what governments do.
In related news, a spokesman for Volkswagen was heard to say:
"Kaaaahhhnnnn!!!"
-- Alastair
it should be paid by the executives who ordered the deceit. If it is paid by the company then future generations of execs will play similar tricks, they will know that it will not hurt them although it might hurt their company — and they can always get another job if the company folds. If their own house is at risk they will be scrupulously honest.
This is the only route to corporate good behaviour, be that: car manufacturers; banks; energy companies; ... NB: I am not talking about mistakes but deceit.
because adults don't breathe.
Would tell this Mudslime mayor to go shove it up his Mohammad loving ass. Doesn't Kahn have a baby to rape somewhere or something rather than bothering a bunch of hard-working people in a foreign country? London is done, the UK is almost cooked, and the EU has failed. All we can do is try and keep it from infecting the USA at this point, but it's probably too late. Fuck moslems, fuck jews, fuck them all. Leave hard working Westerners the fuck alone.
Better engines, more reliability, much lower mpg, more power....I'm pretty sure the consumer received all kinds of benefits for VW's "sabotage" of emissions.
Do you have citable proof of who this would be or are you trying to make some kind of feel good gesture that has no practical way of being proven and thus no way to be enforced?
In most jurisdictions, the executives in question are already open to potential legal proceedings. Corporations do not confer absolute immunity upon executives or officers of a company. While civil findings would almost certainly paid by the company (and ultimately the shareholders), seeing as the company and its shareholders received a real benefit from the emissions cheating, if it is determined there was criminal wrongdoing, it's very possible that executives could end up in the dock.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Well, if they cannot find who is responsible then by default the CEO is responsible. It was his job to keep the company running well.
Why not the car manufacturers that currently still sell cars that produce much more NOx on the road than in the official test? Volkswagen have done everything they could when they learned about the defeat device in some of the Euro 5 engines and their Euro 6 engines were already the cleanest on the market before all that. It is more than a bit unfair to go after the one company that has already taken most of the flak for an industry-wide problem and leave all the worse offenders alone.
Yep in theory that is correct. In practice, not so much. Thanks you for your useless contribution of a fact.
If I am deceived into being liable for a bill, then I have the right to get the person who deceived me into being liable to pay the bill. This is what Khan is proposing. Personally I think VW should be required to pay 3 times what was stolen from the taxpayers of London - the three times multiple being the standard figure in the Hebrew Bible for a thief to repay.
If I can make $1m by legally killing a thousand people, should I be allowed to do it?
For example this piece of evidence
http://creation.com/triceratop...
The existence of such material challenges strongly the old earth hypothesis.
Why are these idiots still calling them "devices"?
This is a necessary measure, otherwise the message is that the winner is the one that cheats laws and regulation.
Khaaaaaaaaann!
And lunar conspiracy theorists make equally facile claims that the landings were fake, because you can't see any stars in the photos taken by astronauts and lunar dust wasn't blown away from the landing site. Facile claims that are easily dismissed by the fact that fast exposure film was necessary (so no stars captured) and there is no atmosphere for the dust to float away on.
And instead of fines, some of their key patents should be invalidated and put to public domain. Money fines alone are not effective against companies. Losing their most important patents is.
The interesting thing with the VW case is it doesn't appear to have happened with any exec level involvement, appears to have been a decision made within an engineering team (at least according to everything I have read on, and I read a lot given I owned a VW at the time)
lol sure it does, that is like watching a magician pull a rabbit out of a hat and claiming that that somehow challenges the conclusion that magic is not real. bad science is bad science regardless of who created it and even if what they found was evidence that a triceratops existed 40,000 years ago that in no way challenges the old earth hypothesis any more than finding a living one today would challenge it, it would merely challenge the hypothesis of when a triceratops became extinct.
The existence of such material challenges strongly the old earth hypothesis.
No, it really isn't. There's not a singl piece of actual vidence in there. All there are are references to various "creation" journals and other related things.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
Nothing in a corporation EVER happens without executive involvement.
What you've been reading is proof that VW's execs are really, really good at the only thing execs have ever been good at or for: covering their asses.
Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
False. For a situation like this to emerge it is not solely the executive at fault. This is the result of a deep and systemic culture problems in an organisation which shape the executive. Dishing out a fine at a specific person and calling the problem solved is laughable
The problem is who is responsible? The CEO as the leader of the organization? Or the head of the engineering team who was responsible for the software? Or the individuals who knew about the software but didn't speak out loud? Or as is the case now the owners aka share holders and all the members aka workers of the organization?
London has a congestion charge, which is a con, nothing to do with congestion, it's a straightforward tax, which is why most embassies in London do not pay it. London now has spy cameras looking at number plates to see if you're a "polluter", real reason is just to collect lovely data on drivers for the police and spies etc.
The new London mayor Sadiq Khan is short of money because he made an election promise to freeze public transport fares, that's impossible to keep without slashing services. Then there's the UKP38m (so far) stolen from taxpayer's for a pedestrian bridge nobody wants, and has no use whatsoever apart from to the corporations that want it as their taxpayer funded plaything.
So, instead of thinking about this as getting back at VW for their emissions cheating, it's just a tax rise to plug black holes in the mayors fraudulent spending.
Take Nobody's Word For It.
Not going to happen - wrong jurisdiction.
London is in the UK. Volkswagen is a German company with a UK presence. The managers almost certainly live in Germany, or at least not in the UK. Hence, London can sue Volkswagen, and if they win they can actually demand money from Volkswagen. If London decides to sue some managers, assuming they even know who to sue, the question is in which court they'd do this. A UK court will be ignored by the defendants (and the court might not even cooperate for that reason). A German court might be a more appropriate venue, but it's quite unclear whether a UK government can sue in German court on behalf of its citizens. There have been a few such legal skirmishes, e.g. when German and Dutch border towns wre complaining about Belgian nuclear reactor safety, and it's not yet settled whether these towns have legal standing.
utter bullshit. You have obviously never worked in the real world. Sure execs are always looking to cover their own arses, but by the same token employee's would sell them out in a heartbeat if they were ordered to do illegal deeds rather than take the blame themselves.
I've been working in the real world for some 18 years now... I've worked in giant corporations, I've worked in tiny startups...
Frankly - if we assume that the claim is true, that somehow the engineers did something this egregious without any of the executives finding out... then those executives are so utterly incompetent that the board of directors should be suing them for fraud because they HAD to have lied on their resumes to be THAT bad at their job.
In the real world - that's never how it happens. Corruption always goes top-down, never bottom-up. The guys on the bottom are not arrogant enough to think the law don't apply to them, and have nothing to gain by flaunting it. Only the executives can gain from breaking the law, and only they can create incentives to make it worth the risk for employees. Employees don't create their own incentive structures.
Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
How the fuck is an exec supposed to work out what an engineer has done in code. I have been working in large enterprises for the last 30 years and I have seen over and over where engineers or sales do shit hidden from execs for their own benefit and I have seen execs do shit that should put them out on their arse too. I have seen coders take shortcuts and skip error checking to push code out the door on time to get bonus's, I have watched a team suppress error messages in code because it might hurt their bonus's if execs found out they spent most of their time screwing around instead of fixing the list of bugs they were given. I remember one incident about 15 years ago where a sales guy padded figures on a quote to a large customer as he thought the extra couple of million would boost his commission and the sale was a sure thing, someone undercut us by around a million dollars and 30 staff lost their job as well as the exec, all because of some arsehole that decided to pad some numbers and was good at hiding how he had done it. Execs are ultimately always held responsible but in an organisation of 10,000 or 100,000 where an exec has to rely on his underlings to do the right thing it is not possible for them to know everything they do, all they can do is set the rules and try to ensure people are watching and checking, hell most execs wouldn't even understand what most engineers do.
if you honestly believe nothing ever happens without an exec knowing and claim you have been working in enterprises for 18 years I am calling you a liar. I have 26 years and I see it all the time, most execs have management or business backgrounds so even if they were standing in the room when something like this was being done they wouldn't know or understand what was being done unless it was explained in detail to them. Their job is to provide business oversight and ensure that enough people below them are doing the right thing to stop shit like this happening. sadly these incidents happen everyday everywhere, maybe not on this scale but it is common as hell as most execs are extremely disconnected from engineering teams.
Quite simple really, taxing people to drive to work on top of the VAT and Duty on the fuel is totally immoral, what more would one expect from a member of the self-styled "religion of peace", but immoraity?