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Trump To Scrap NASA Climate Research In Crackdown On 'Politicized Science' (theguardian.com)
dryriver quotes a report from The Guardian: Donald Trump is poised to eliminate all climate change research conducted by NASA as part of a crackdown on "politicized science," his senior adviser on issues relating to the space agency has said. Nasa's Earth science division is set to be stripped of funding in favor of exploration of deep space, with the president-elect having set a goal during the campaign to explore the entire solar system by the end of the century. This would mean the elimination of NASA's world-renowned research into temperature, ice, clouds and other climate phenomena. [NASA's network of satellites provide a wealth of information on climate change, with the Earth science division's budget set to grow to $2 billion (PDF) next year. By comparison, space exploration has been scaled back somewhat, with a proposed budget of $2.8 billion in 2017.] Kevin Trenberth, senior scientist at the National Center for Atmospheric Research, said as Nasa provides the scientific community with new instruments and techniques, the elimination of Earth sciences would be "a major setback if not devastating." "It could put us back into the 'dark ages' of almost the pre-satellite era," he said. "It would be extremely short sighted."
And quit reporting supposition as fact. Enough already!
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B - D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
But we need to know how badly we are F'ed.
How to work an "elephant in the room" joke into the Subject:?
This article seems to belong in the anti-news category. News is supposed to be surprising or at least interesting. At this point I see no grounds for interest.
Will Trump survive to 2020, or will the cognitive dissonance of sometimes having to say rational things set his spray-tan on fire before that? Will he live long enough to dump Pence for Ivanka? If he makes it that far, he could abdicate the throne at any time and keep it in the Family, surely the richest and most powerful in America by that time.
I'm not trying to be funny anymore. Reality has exceeded the capacity of my imagination. Climate does not exist, as I sit here watching the earliest snowfall in more than 50 years. Climate change? There is no climate to change. It's all random ostriches and orange and pink striped elephants.
Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
I guarantee you have no fucking idea how time series analysis works - and don't fucking cheat and google it. That's not learning it just acting like you've learned. Go read some fucking textbooks you god damn idiot.
Translation: I'm a coward who doesn't want to hear bad news
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
All space-based instrumentation falls squarely in the realm of NASA's expertise. Who knows more about scanning the atmospheres of planets than NASA?
Just remember Mr. Right Wing dumb ass, you're on the same planet as everyone else. Even if it is another universe.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
Sidestepping the click-bait argument about the impact of the loss of this type of research... The benefits of this type of research being stripped out of NASA and perhaps being shuffled to NOAA might be a net positive for NASA in the long run. Why is NASA in the business of climate research at all? It is after all NASA (National Aeronautics Space Administration), not the NCRSSA (Nation Climate Research and Sometimes Space Administration).
Yes! Let's shuffle that extra $2 Billion into doing some real space exploration and leave the climate science to the people that studied meteorology and give money back to the guys that studied rocket science.
The laws of physics are not bound by political ideology.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Do you expect anyone to get in a serious scientific discussion with such hilarious math? Do you have ANY idea how anything actually works?
Come on, tell us the truth. Who's paying you for that tripe? You cannot possibly be so ignorant or crazy by accident.
Just my personal annotation that this branch should be regarded as "pointless and closed" and that the questions were rhetorical. No intention to feed the trolls and even less expectation of an honest answer to ANY question. You can't provide food for thought in such a case.aRe:Polit
Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
Fuck Trump, fraudulent fake ass daughter-fucker.
Wannabe daughter-fucker. Accuracy matters, you know.
If you can't make your point without the language you used then just don't post.
Why be such a potty mouth?
Creation theory in schools.
God
Damn
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
Fighting all the idiots is fun too.
Eh? Not an AC comment? Why are you trying to bury it?
Anyway, I wanted to react to the Subject: because I think it is unfair. I doubt that many Slashdot members who could vote actually voted for Trump. If they hate email, they probably voted for the Libertarian. The Slashdot members who can't vote are probably paid trolls from Russia and Macedonia, and the one good thing about voter ID laws is that it's much harder for illegal aliens to vote now. Therefore, "some of you [who] voted for this" may be a null set.
Remember, nobody expects the Email Inquisition.
Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
Jzanu was gentle.
I would have said, "... you goddam major fucking batshit crazy under-educated piece of whale shit."
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
That was not my reply. I curse freely because it relieves stress. Those who refuse education while having free access to the best learning tool in human history are fucking idiots.
Maybe he's a potty animal.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
That's the website that changed a graph by rotating it counter-clockwise 45 degrees. "Look, it's not really getting warmer!"
You are welcome on my lawn.
Who appointed you the language police? Is that some special privilege of 5-digit user IDs?
Strong language shows strong emotion. Fortunately for your precious eyeballs, I don't feel that strongly about language police. I'm too busy pondering the Email Inquisition...
Yeah, I know I risked triggering another low-user-ID-arms race. Some of the little numbers still lurk around, I think. Either that or whipslash should raise money for Slashdot by selling the small numbers to the highest bidders. "What am I bid for the user ID 731?"
Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
And now he's gonna fuck climate scientists to death. Fuck them right to death.
https://youtu.be/p1xiAXMqJIQ
You are welcome on my lawn.
BREAKING NEWS: ONLY NASA IS ALLOWED TO USE DATA FROM NASA SATELLITES! NOBODY ELSE CAN HAVE THAT DATA! IS IS FORBIDDEN, AS DECREED BY PROPHECY!
Or maybe it's a complete load of horseshit, and maybe, just fucking maybe, our space agency should actually be concerned with going to space again.
Just remember Mr. Right Wing dumb ass, you're on the same planet as everyone else. Even if it is another universe.
He is what, around 70? To him climate change is fiction. He said as much before his latest flip flop half flip. He will be dead long before it matters to him and since everything about Trump world seems to revolve around him, I doubt he really cares.
If he had any decency he would apologize for all the crap he did to get elected and then beg the electors to end this nightmare. I'm sorry, but it just makes me sick to know that the person we elected to rule us is this lacking in fundamental ethics. Anyone who is willing to do _anything_ and to hell with truth, honesty, or any of the rest is someone we sure as hell should not have let win. Before someone says Clinton lies too, I suggest you look at the breath, scope, and repetition of Trump's. Clinton may have been uninspiring, but I'll take uninspiring over this.
I still remember the massive crowds that were chanting, ``Lock Her Up!''. They meant it, but he was clearly just using them and all the rest. Disgusting. It was obvious he was lying at the time, but the idiots just lapped it up. I think if I ever visit a foreign country I'll have to make up a story about which country I'm from. Some research on Canada can't be a bad idea.
That anthropogenic climate change is real and caused by humans is undisputed and has been undisputed (by the scientific establishment, crackpot conspiracy bloggers dont count) for decades. Thats not actually whats being researched. What is being researched is how bad it is, what sort of time line we are looking at, what mitigation strategies do we have, are those mitigating strategies we already have working, what are the current effects, and how do we respond to the growing deleuge of problems already starting to occur.
Its *suicidal* to defund the most important agency in the world covering it.
Excuse the Unicode crap in my posts. That's an apostrophe, and slashdot is busted.
That's right. Because air and space have nothing to do with climate.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Yes, but where will climate change cause flooding, where will it cause draught, how much water can utilities, dams and shippers expect, how tall does this seawall need to be, and where will the best places be to build are all very important questions. Regardless of global warming being caused by man or not, better predictive models help humans plan.
Hey, stop intruding on AC's safe space! And give a trigger warning!
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!
Shutting down NASA Earth Science moves it over to NOAA.
...Where it should be. NASA is aeronautics and space, NOAA is oceanographics and weather. Climate is not aeronautics or space, but IS weather.
You are wrong. Weather satellites for Earth fall under NOAA, not NASA.
In the case of NASA, the National Aeronautical and Space Administration is focused on human travel through those mediums. Climate is handled by NOAA.
Us humans really are dumb creatures.
Take it back CIS scum
Not really, there's nothing special about frail humans and they are bad sensors.
That would be Atmel-Microchip... seriously though that is a solved problem.
Just about anybody can build a satellite. NOAA has alot of smart brains, they'll carry on just as they always have. And some wasted funding going to NASA will be eliminated.
Because the planet we are on isn't a part of space.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
I agree with you on that one. But then again we're probably in the minority here.
Who helps design them to function in space?
Companies like Teledyne, Boeing, Lockheed Martin, etc. that have a LOT of engineers (mil-aero guys) who know a lot about hardening systems for space and extreme environments. In fact, most of the US satellites up there were designed by private contractors; yes, JPL does quite a bit too, but that's actually an arm of Caltech that is just nominally "controlled" by NASA. NASA tends to deal with delivery logistics and project management whilst private contractors do the actual work.
Try again idiot.
Yes, indeed...
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Secondly, the goal is to de-politicize the research so that dissenting viewpoints can be presented along with majority viewpoints.
This is the basis of the scientific method, not of trying for outcomes that are political.
Don't ever forget the story of Dr. Barry Warren who discovered the cure for most ulcers. Because Big Pharma stood to lose millions, his research was quashed. It wasn't until he gave himself an ulcer and cured it that the story got out.
Same goes for climate: let's focus on proper, scientific research and NOT on opinion and emotion. This way we can arrive at empirical evidence to support solutions to climate change. Don't ever forget, it was NIXON who created the EPA. Trump may surprise with his pragmatic approach... on the other hand, he may not! LOL
*** Don't be dull.***
Well, I think NOAA - National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration - might be a better fit than NASA. NASA is more about aeronautics and space and NOAA focuses on the conditions of the oceans and atmosphere. So given a choice between the two - I'd say anything related to climate research would best be served in NOAA.
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Jzanu was gentle.
I would have said, "... you goddam major fucking batshit crazy under-educated piece of whale shit."
You guys. Stop holding back.
I would have said, "FUUUUUUUU-UUUCKK YOOOOOUUUU you gormless little spit-dribbling, smegma-gobbling, louse-brained, FAS patient. I've seen nematodes smarter than you. You couldn't calculate the number of fingers your mother used to scrape your father's cum out of her arse when she conceived you. You couldn't analyse the club your mother beat you with because you were too fucking stupid to shit anywhere but in your own shoes. In conclusion: fuck yourself. Fuck you from your your cum-encrusted New Balance sneakers to your shit-stained khakis... all the way to that Dap-smeared monstrosity you call your head.
Also: Fuck you.
HTH. HAND
Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
If you have actual evidence of climatologists committing fraud with ice cores for money, then provide it.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
is that you, hershel from walking dead?
Can't be using them newfangled satellite things for monitoring the climate and weather now can we. Push it back to NOAA where they can stick with their good old fashioned weather balloons.
for pointing out your shortcomings and then try to blame them for the damage causes by your little hissy fits?
but after that we can hamstring him with a Democratic congress (don't forget to vote in your primaries or you'll get Blue Dogs).
And barring a war he's a 1 term president with 8 years of democrats to follow. That'll stop the bleeding. If you want the damage undone then you'll need to give the Dems a super majority in the senate and probably some state legislatures.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
in other words, you want him to lie so you can continue to pretend that you are special.
You win.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
you don't have a clue what you are talking about so you cut and pasted something that you thought sounded cool.
This was modded troll? So sad.
If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
All that pseudoskeptics require is a counterclaim. The counterclaim may be idiotic, it may even be an outright lie, but like the Creationists before them, the fact that such an objection, even if a lie, exists somehow makes an entire branch of science wrong.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Don't tempt him to rewrite physics books. He appears to be willing and able, since ignorance is on his side.
Too late. No doubt his nominee for Department of Education will do it for him.
If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
How long this kind of nonsense is going to stay - often seems like 3rd Reich in the beginning... On the radio I even heard people shouting, after asked if they can pronounce the German word for "lying press" - where the press organs which were not in line with the upcoming movement, were constantly denounced - the crowd roared enthusiastically LÜGENPRESSE.. This may have been just a small rightest wing gathering, but Donald consistently labels anything not conforming to his "Universe" as lie again and again.
This is a simple idea and concept picked up easily by crowd minds.
Boah!
I don't think humans are bad sensors, but you are right about NASA not focusing solely on manned missions. The unmanned missions advance science, though, and will hopefully lead to manned missions.
So no history, or involvement in guidance , and no external applications justifying NASA involvement eh?
You just couldn't take 2 seconds to google "noaa satellite" before running your mouth, could you? NASA involvement is an expensive way to launch satellites these days anyway. "Because satellites" is no reason for them to be involved.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
Uhh, actually have just discovered that climate change is caused by White people. So it should be called crackergenic climate change. Your term anthropogenic is discriminatory and racist. Blacks and Latinos didn't cause climate change. Just ask President Obama. The science is settled. You closed minded racist biggots need to STOP calling it anthropogenic global climate change. The new politically correct term is Crackergenic climate change.
Shheeshhh. You would think that we could finally lay the inherent endemic and systematic racism to the past.
To clarify the (assumed) sarcasm. NOAA is the government agency that is responsible for the U.S. weather service, and maintaining climatological records. NOAA operates the weather satellites, NASA (or a soon to be contractor,) just puts them in orbit.
On a side note, NASA requests "good old fashion" weather balloon data when launching rockets.
You should also change their name from National Air and Space Administration to just National Space Administration.
They have no ability to weigh any two things relative to each other. They are the same people who honestly, sincerely voted for Trump because Hilary lies and is corrupt.
Play Command HQ online
You do realize that most of what you posted is a lie, right? Of course you do. Lying is what you do.
The earth has been cooler for the entire period during which anything resembling human beings evolved. Antarctica wasn't in its current position when it was warmer than it is now. And, without human carbon releases the planet maintains a relatively temperate climate over long periods of time through the action of the carbonate-silicate cycle. Of course when you dig up half a billion years worth of stored organic carbon and burn in in a century, the carbonate-silicate cycle ain't gonna fix that.
And of course, continuing to release more CO2, that's your fault, not mine.
NASA is doing climate research because 4 decades of political leaders decided NASA should be doing climate research. If you are deluded enough to think Trump is just going to move things around to NOAA rather than eliminating inconvenient research, you deserve what you get. Good luck with that.
Support SETI@home
Of course, the real story is that Earth science will become the purview of NOAA, freeing up NASA to do what it does best: explore space. NASA will get the satellites to space, but other departments will conduct Earth studies.
1) If you think NASA's budget is going to be transferred to NOAA, you're far more insane than anyone else under discussion.
2) The organization is called NASA, not NSA. You might want to learn a little bit about the subject before spouting off. You might stop sounding like quite the idiot.
The answer to all of your questions will be found by simply paying attention to where the new Trump hotels, Trump golf courses, Trump casinos, and Trump universities appear during the next four years.
So simple.
Actually they have a significant amount of climatological data going back far beyond written history. Sure, it's not as detailed as the more recent recorded observations, and it's taken us a while to recover it, but it is there to be found and deciphered, which they've done.
By the way, meteorology is not climatology.
And how does that invalidate what I wrote? Especially the design handbook. Have you ever been involved in Government hardware projects? You get big specs and lots of definitions of processes that must be followed - and you, the contractor, must execute accordingly. You've only proven my point. Thank you!
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Yet we can't read a single article about climate change on Slashdot without a bunch of mouth breathers claiming that it is not true, or controversial for some reason or other.
Is it controversial or not? If it is, then we need to pour buckets of money into resolving the controversy via more science. If it is not, then it makes not sense for Trump to be committing wad's of tax payer money into trying to restart coal as a viable energy source.
Shutting down NASA Earth Science moves it over to NOAA.
No, it doesn't. It just shuts it down.
Support SETI@home
Funny thing, unless you're massively and independently wealthy, no can do.
Business won't fund it, especially our current short sighted ones, since it doesn't directly make them bling today.
So that leaves the government.
Why do it? It's for the common good and overall improvement. Sure, it may not be all that obvious, but it does shore up a lot of stuff that we rely on, even if it's F-N invisible to you. In some ways it's kind of like the interstate system of highways. People said it was a worthless boondoggle before they made it, and it quickly became the mostly ignored backbone of commerce and transportation. And still they don't pay much attention to, except maybe when a bridge collapses or the like.
The rest of the research at NASA is also of the unnoticed in your life but definitely a huge influence, though indirect. So just because you can't see what it's doing to benefit you doesn't matter, because it does, even if plenty of it is only in the long term and some kind of instant jackpot.
This whole situation makes me happy to be 50 and have some health problems. Maybe, assuming things go really bad, I'll be able to get out of here honorably.
For educated people this is scary. At this point I cannot even try to explain the complexities of certain subjects to people. The anti-intellectualism runs so deep that just being an intellectual brands you as an outsider. This is not good for our society.
This is a dangerous time for smart folks. I could have easily ended up a climate scientist. Though in my case I chose systems engineering with radio as a hobby. Both rely on physics. Both require knowledge of real science.
The rhetoric I'm hearing could land some very competent and gifted scientists in some kind of detention. Defunding comes first- silencing comes second.
The American century has certainly closed.
Another consultant who stuck it out.
"We are the Priests, of the Temples of Syrinx..."
When you're famous they let you do that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
Now sit in the corner and think about what you've done.
So, in other words there is no evidence of fraud in ice core measurements at all, and all that's left is rants about the IPCC
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Tyranny of the minority is a greater risk.
Cite the margin of error and where it is seen as "huge", and more importantly where those margins invalidate the data. And no, a blog is not a citation.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
He isn't, he's a short sighted narcissistic fuck that doesn't give a damn about tomorrows outlook if he can scrape a buck out of it today by any means at all.
Hey, go for it!
In fact, why not eliminate the middle bits and just cut to the chase. In your next issue, just put:
"TRUMP IS INSANE"
Because he's not insane. He's a buffoon, and so pathologically needy that he will say virtually anything to anyone, but that's not news. We don't run a celebrity gossip site. And this particular story is about his advisor, not Trump himself. You see, we report actual news. Which was my original point.
What we do run is a newspaper in a part of the world that is already feeling the effects of climate change, with direct and tangible economic and social impacts. So when a top climate denier says that he intends to cut the legs out from under an integral part of the climate science community, and claims to be acting to stop political interference with climate science.... That gets a big headline. We're running it tomorrow.
And yes, editors do sometimes talk like that. In jest, but mostly because if you can't maintain your gallows humour, you won't be an editor for long.
Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
https://www.nasa.gov/pdf/1968m...
Mission I: To Understand and Protect Our Home Planet
Mission II: To Explore the Universe and Search for Life
Mission III: To Inspire the Next Generation of Explorers
That was interesting.
Excellent comment. I'd mod you "+1 Insightful" if I could.
Bring coal mining jobs back to the US and ship the scientific research overseas!
I'm taking a wild guess that even though NASA's $2 billion funding for climate research will be cut it won't be matched by a $2 billion increase in NOAA.
Don't be disingenuous, we all know this is meant to prevent us from furthering the science that indicates man made climate change. I agree that going to space is exciting but unless Trump massively increases NASA's space budget this is simply trying to hide an inconvenient truth.
Don't blame the people who pointed out the facts about Trump.
Look inwards: why did people like you ignore Trump's misogynistic, racist and xenophobic tendencies? Perhaps the truth is hard for you to accept?
The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
I was kinda keeping up until you lost your way and turned to appeal to emotion. If you had had a point, you should have stuck with it.
Now I'm inclined to just not believe anything you typed. Not just not believe, but actively disbelieve. And I'm motivated to not seek out facts, in part by replies to this and similar comments.
But mostly by what seems to be a buckshot approach to spread belief, not facts. Go ahead and attack me personally, I'm just relaying what people don't even know they are doing. I'm aware, and providing feedback that I'm under no obligation to even be conscious of. You're welcome.
Read.
I think you don't understand defence - aerospace was a critical industry and the US government fed bids to competing firms alternately purely to keep them alive for supplier diversity rather than on technical merits. NASA's role in creating the actual practice of spaceflight can't be overstated, nor their research.
You apparently didn't notice that Trump was elected by a minority of the voters, the Republicans in the House of Representatives were elected by a minority of the voters, and the Republicans in the Senate were elected by a minority of the voters.
It's not surprising. Authoritarians rarely have much regard for the will of the majority
Dude, the difference between the majority and the minority is about 1.4%. Can you please downshift a couple gears with your authoritarian minority bullshit? You make it sound like it's the apartheid or something.
Or even better. Why don't you move to a small state like New Hampshire or Wyoming, then you could tell us how you'd feel about having all the federal decisions made by California and New York people since they have millions more people.
lucm, indeed.
You do realize that most of what you posted is a lie, right? Of course you do. Lying is what you do.
You lost your argument right there. If you can't have civilized debate, go back to school and try out for debate club. Maybe then you'll understand that not everyone who conforms to you narrow-minded world views is trying to pull a fast one on you. What do I really even care about what you think anyway? I'm expressing my opinion on how our government spends our money.
But, lets pretend I do care, and I'm trying to convince you. Lets start:
Source: Geologic Temperature Record
The earth has been cooler for the entire period during which anything resembling human beings evolved.
No. Our branch of life flourished since just after the Cretaceous–Paleogene boundary (aka K-Pg Boundary). Thats when mammals developed into the variety they are today, and most of which was much more temperate than really recent temperatures (geologically speaking).
Antarctica wasn't in its current position when it was warmer than it is now.
Not as cold as it is now, which is ridiculously cold. From Wikipedia (again):
Africa separated from Antarctica in the Jurassic, around 160 Ma, followed by the Indian subcontinent in the early Cretaceous (about 125 Ma). By the end of the Cretaceous, about 66 Ma, Antarctica (then connected to Australia) still had a subtropical climate and flora, complete with a marsupial fauna.[52] In the Eocene epoch, about 40 Ma Australia-New Guinea separated from Antarctica, so that latitudinal currents could isolate Antarctica from Australia, and the first ice began to appear. During the Eocene–Oligocene extinction event about 34 million years ago, CO2 levels have been found to be about 760 ppm[53] and had been decreasing from earlier levels in the thousands of ppm.
And, without human carbon releases the planet maintains a relatively temperate climate over long periods of time through the action of the carbonate-silicate cycle.
Long being relative.
Of course when you dig up half a billion years worth of stored organic carbon and burn in in a century, the carbonate-silicate cycle ain't gonna fix that.
And of course, continuing to release more CO2, that's your fault, not mine.
How is that more my fault than yours? You live in the same culture as I do. You work on the same computers I do, have the environmental footprint that I do, and so on and so fourth (probably more so, since my work and home are solar powered, and my vehicle is electric). You eat the same food, which comes from the same farms, and drink water piped over the same infrastructure, powered by the same machines, built by the same machines. Don't get all holier than thou on me.
NASA is doing climate research because 4 decades of political leaders decided NASA should be doing climate research.
This is what I disagree with. Not that we are funding climate research, but that NASA should be focused, and we should have a vibrant and progressive space program. NASA is losing ground. We retired the Shuttles, we haven't done anything but LEO manned spaceflight since the 70's, and the number of humans to walk on another celestial body is decreasing, not increasing. All that is thanks to 40 years of mismanagement, lack of direction, and a terrible lack of focus.
If you are deluded enough to think Trump is just going to move things around to NOAA rather than eliminating inconvenient research, you deserve what you get.
I'm not deluded enough to think that, since it says so right there in TFS. I don't think that another 20 years of $2B research is going to solve anything, certainly not going t
Coherent thought is a strong indicator of intelligence. I'm sorry you don't have either.
Well of course science doesn't know everything, otherwise it would stop. But, you can't just decide to chuck it and wander off in your own ignorance. And "settled" science is usually proven to be wrong?
That is a REALLY big statement. I can think of tons of settled science that hasn't changed for centuries. Sure, we may find corner cases in very large and very small places but, for human scale things, a lot of science is known and static.
First .. Should NOAA be running the studies, and be supported by satellites run by Nasa, Funded thru NOAA? Arguable.
Second .. Is climate change real, or does the President-Elect know more about worldwide weather fluctuation than all the scientists (ok 95% of them), the same way he knows more about war than generals?
Honestly, I am having trouble keeping all the truthiness our President-Elect pushes out. Can we agree that he said a lot of things to get him elected, What is your favorite contradiction?
Time for a new Political party in the US (or two!) One is off the rails Other cant pony up a leader.
Hey, go for it!
In fact, why not eliminate the middle bits and just cut to the chase. In your next issue, just put:
"TRUMP IS INSANE"
Because he's not insane. He's a buffoon, and so pathologically needy that he will say virtually anything to anyone, but that's not news. We don't run a celebrity gossip site. And this particular story is about his advisor, not Trump himself. You see, we report actual news. Which was my original point.
What we do run is a newspaper in a part of the world that is already feeling the effects of climate change, with direct and tangible economic and social impacts. So when a top climate denier says that he intends to cut the legs out from under an integral part of the climate science community, and claims to be acting to stop political interference with climate science.... That gets a big headline. We're running it tomorrow.
And yes, editors do sometimes talk like that. In jest, but mostly because if you can't maintain your gallows humour, you won't be an editor for long.
Hey, go for it!
In fact, why not eliminate the middle bits and just cut to the chase. In your next issue, just put:
"TRUMP IS INSANE"
Because he's not insane. He's a buffoon, and so pathologically needy that he will say virtually anything to anyone, but that's not news. We don't run a celebrity gossip site. And this particular story is about his advisor, not Trump himself. You see, we report actual news. Which was my original point.
What we do run is a newspaper
...
Nope.
I don't know what you're running, but it most definitely isn't a newspaper.
Firstly, this is an advisor making suggestions to Trump, not Trump himself.
Secondly, the person making the suggestion is an outside advisor, not a member of the transition team.
Thirdly, the recommendation is to let NASA deal with space-going issues and have other parts of government do climate research. It's not advocating just dumping the research.
And finally, other members of the government have suggested this move in the past, including Ted Cruz.
(source)
Trump has not said or done anything on this yet, he's only vaguely and tangentially involved, and it's not even clear that the adviser has even made his case to Trump yet.
It took me all of 1 minute to dig down and find the actual story, and summarize it truthfully. I've done what any good editor should do, and what you didn't do. Report fairly and accurately.
And yet you want to put 4 inch headlines saying how insane he is. Oh, excuse me, that was in jest. You want to say he is a buffoon.
You think you're a newspaper, but you're one of the "fake news" problems we keep hearing about.
Let me be specific: You are in no way running an actual newspaper, you're simply a troll publication like National Enquirer.
(I expect you'll next be telling me "Bat Boy Lives!!!")
I think you don't understand defence - aerospace was a critical industry and the US government fed bids to competing firms alternately purely to keep them alive for supplier diversity rather than on technical merits. NASA's role in creating the actual practice of spaceflight can't be overstated, nor their research.
American Astronauts currently have to hitch a ride on a Russian spaceship designed in the 60s. I think that says it all.
lucm, indeed.
People > Money. Life isn't a stockholders meeting in a corporate boardroom, and Ayn Rand was an idiot.
No, that is due to decades old design mistakes being corrected after 2 of the 3 worst US space tragedies (both due to shuttle design defects). The lack of a replacement is the consequence of a changed objective and the moderate success in intentional development of commercial orbit jockeys like SpaceX for whom NASA acted as angel investor and primary customer.
If lying were the reason, then Trump should have lost.
She lost because Trump told the masses what they wanted to believe.
He's just cranky. I'll take him his cane and we'll go yell at kids to get off our (802.11b) wi-fi.
I had a sucky sig.
Changing your political stance isn't lying. When you ignore political and legal statements, she didn't tell that many lies. Every fact-checking group found Trump to be more lie-filled than Clinton. He was more believable, but never told the truth.
Learn to love Alaska
Then Aeronautics was back when NASA did airplane research. Yes, it was mainly space, but not only.
Plus, if NASA changed its name to NSA, maybe it would finally get some funding.
Learn to love Alaska
Aeronautics could also be implied in researching how to re-enter the atmosphere, or alien atmospheres with technology like aerobraking, parachutes, and retro-rockets. It certainly isn't the study of Earth's atmosphere for reasons other than traveling through it.
http://www.businessinsider.de/intelligent-people-tend-to-be-messy-stay-awake-longer-and-swear-more-2016-8?IR=T
http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2015-12-17/study-people-who-swear-more-are-smarter-have-larger-vocabulary
I had a sucky sig.
Point: NASA should be focused on space, travel, and the study of the heavens. If you want to study the earth, see NOAA, or USGS. NASA needs its money for space.
I'm not being dis-ingenuous, I'm prioritizing. I think NASA should focus on space, and leave the earths climate to NOAA and the earths geology to USGS. I think NASA is so unfocused right now, we have to turn to a super-power we already beat in space to help us get our astronauts to a station we largely paid for. And the saddest part: thats the most exciting thing happening above our atmosphere for me to tell my children about.
Your insightful and cogent argument have convinced me that your position is more correct than your opponents.
some karma... and kinda lukewarm about it.
Please provide a quote where it is stated that the money gets transferred from NASA Earth Science to NOAA and not to The Donald Trump Post Presidency Retirement Fund.
-=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
I normally love order but if I can't have order then chaos is pretty awesome as well. Trump is the King of chaos, I have a feeling we're going to see some really spectacular chaos!
I agree with you on this. Probably NASA and NOAA will discuss ways to transfer some things over.
Another thing also that is not said when discussing this issue: Regardless of any government policies or priorities - every person *can* choose to dramatically limit their carbon footprint if they so choose. For one thing, I recommend going vegan! It not only drastically reduces carbon footprint, it has an enormous range of other benefits both personal, social, environmental, and cultural.
"I normally love order but if I can't have order then chaos is pretty awesome as well. Trump is the King of chaos, I have a feeling we're going to see some really spectacular chaos!"
And napalm in the morning.
The happiest Republican must be G.W. Bush, he will no longer be the worst president ever after this.
Don't you fart a lot? All that methane can't be very good for the earth.
But, "trump is insane" is not a news.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
Patents Drive Free Software as Hurricanes Drive Construction Industry
What does ANY of that have to do with warming caused by greenhouse gases?
I don't think that another 20 years of $2B research is going to solve anything
Most of NASA's expense isn't about 'research', it's about providing data for people to analyze.
We do need that data, believe it or not.
No sig today...
My bad. I left out the most interesting upcoming job openings:
O Fracking fundamentals
O Golf course grounds maintenance
O Hotel hospitality engineer
O Casino "cooler"
The first "A" in NASA doesn't mean what you think (or at least imply) it means. It's for aeronautic, not atmospheric. As in flight, not weather.
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
True, for suitably "occasionally" values of "usually".
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
They wanted to "send a message". Like a suicide attempt being a cry for help and just as ridiculous.
He'll shake things up alright, probably enough that speaking Mandarin is going to be a good career move for any job more involved than Walmart greeter.
It's a rough neighborhood. If you get taken aback this easily I suggest that you go play elsewhere.
Why is Snark Required?
You are very predictable and easy to manipulate. You act like your are not very smart. (I would have said intelligent but that might be too big a word for you.)
Why is Snark Required?
Well Donald is far better at that sort of thing. Hillary's lies are pale little squirming things in comparison the the massive and well built lies of Trump's "salesmanship".
The minority Trump is going to consider when he decides things is a hell of a lot smaller than the half of the patheticly low number of people that bothered to turn up to vote. We are talking about an extreme edge of a political party here and not the voters.
That's why phrases like "authoritarian minority" come up - Trump is not choosing the finest people for a role from all of the USA but instead from a tiny bunch of cronies who will act for a tiny part of New York and tell the rest of the place to go to hell. It's "heck of a job Brownie" territory instead of Reagan and most of the rest choosing people by ability.
He's naming a guy who believes climate change to be in charge of the environment
He's naming a creationist to be in charge of education
He's naming a racist anti-gay to be in charge of interior
He's also designing a special uniform for his people.
Americans, what does it feel like to live in the early 1900s? Or maybe that's more like the 1800s?
Unfortunately, the acronym NSA is already taken by another agency.
I think you said one sentence that was true, and that was "No." You should have quit while you were ahead.
>>"ad space available -- low rates!!!"
"Nearly 2 billion" is not 40% of $19,3B
Wingus, Dingus! Listen up!
Why do I always chuckle a little when I see the words "climate scientist"?
Because laughter is your first reaction when experiencing cognitive dissonance?
Yes, because when I want to learn about climate science, I don't turn to climatologsts, I turn to former TV weathermen funded by the Heartland Institute.
Wingus, Dingus! Listen up!
I strongly suspect that NASA is suddenly going to find need for a bunch of new, advanced "weather satellites" ;)
Anyway, as for this article: POTUS can't just "scrap" some random part of NASA. NASA's budget is determined by congress. He can threaten vetoes, but he has to work with congress on the budget.
Wingus, Dingus! Listen up!
"Oh no, someone called me a racist, well I'm going to vote for a racist fascist who'll destroy America and everything it stands for, that'll show them!" said nobody ever.
We called Trump supporters racist, sexist, fascists because Trump is a racist, sexist, fascist, and because anyone supporting him by definition supports racism, sexism, and fascism. We didn't randomly insult people and they switched their votes to Trump, the people we described were already voting for Trump.
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
Wait... you have a way to travel through space WITHOUT travelling through air first ?
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Last I checked earth was a planet, in space, it's also the one that is easiest to study - and this is kind of important because the stuff we learn from studying it helps us understand other planets too.
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No need to guess - that's already happening. The chairman of the congressional science committee (a rabid anti-science denier from the red side of the aisle) has been hounding NOAA for ages trying to force them to stop publishing results that he doesn't like.
The republicans are getting sick and tired of scientists constantly reporting that the their bullshit climate science denial is... well bullshit. They don't want to stop spreading bullshit (there's lots of sweet campaign donations in the spreading of this particular bullshit) so instead... they are trying to silence the scientists.
It's quite ironic to hear them saying it's about ending "politicised science" ... considering they are politicians trying to interfere with science and force them to lie about the results with budget threats.
It's doubly ironic that the deniers claim the scientists only publish climate change papers to get grant money... considering that the push from congress has been consistently to take money AWAY from scientists who do that. If anything, it would be a LOT easier to get the republican congress to fund your research if you were a denier.
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It may be that I'm not American, but I see nothing wrong with that. The pissing contest was in the 60s as well and while human flights always make for good national pride and propaganda I can't see what great strategic importance they have relative to the huge costs. I mean, in the 90s to early 00s it still felt nice with the space plane lookalike and the Mir station and building ISS but there isn't really anything new that can be accomplished and I wished the US just pull the plug on the manned flights and e.g. canceled the SLS or all manned-related aspects of the program. And if two countries that carry out manned flights used to be enough, well we still have two countries doing that. Hell, we only have one LHC at the CERN and make do with that. Somehow the countries decided to build just one LHC, and not one per big or wealthy country.
And of course - flagrant self contradiction:
"The fraud is (mostly) not coming from scientists"
Anything you've heard about climate change from a political group (any UN body, for example) is automatically a lie.
These two sentences flat out contradict each other - because the primary UN body that says things about climate change is the IPCC which is just about entirely staffed by scientists.
Of course, it all hinges on his attempt at deceptively claiming the IPCC is actually a political body.
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I notice he has not replied. How odd. You would think NASA making such a statement would be big news. There'd be a press release and such - he'd be able to link us to at least one newspaper report, or a scientific paper that stated what the margin is and at least some sort of credible assesment that this margin is "huge" (as opposed to his own subjective interpretation of a number he didn't [want to] understand) and sure.
And surely if it invalidated any of their results - then there WOULD be studies showing this. The oil industry is spending hundreds of millions on anti-climate-change propaganda, they would surely be able to offer a few million in a nice grant to any scientist who could do so. I mean - the deniers always tell us scientists publish climate change articles to get money... if they are so greedy, how come the oil companies can't seem to buy any that will write a decent paper and reveal the 'truth' ?
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Is this good enough for you?
http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/2006_articles/IceCoreSprg97.pdf
Yes, a paper by Zbigniew Jaworowski, the Polish scientist who says that we are entering a new Ice Age, and that the science behind getting rid of leaded petrol is a fraudulent myth. But let's not get bogged down on the author's reputation... let's look at the paper itself and judge its objectivity. First line... "When climate science was not driven by ideology...". Oh dear.
Actually climate is more aeronautics and space than it is weather. Seriously climate is NOT weather.
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You really believe that literally half of the US population is sexist facist, racist etc etc etc?
I wouldn't worry. The Chinese may be a one party state, but they don't allow the stupid peasants to elect the leader. In many respects they already have the moral high ground over the USA. It would not be surprising if they replaced NASA and used the information to their own advantage. Just wait and see, this is going to be the century of China now that the USA has failed with the election of a member of the 1%.
Facts are history now plebs have politics for religion on social media.
Before NASA was called NASA it was called NACA, the National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics, and it did fundamental research into aerodynamics from 1915 onwards. Chuck Yeager's X-1 was a NACA research program.
I'm glad you had the opportunity to use the expression "road warrior psycho dystopia", unfortunately it doesn't make sense in the context of this thread.
I'm not saying there should be no government or no government agencies, I'm saying the military (which is part of the government) is better suited for the kind of work NASA is failing at.
lucm, indeed.
Trump is not choosing the finest people for a role from all of the USA but instead from a tiny bunch of cronies
First, that's what all presidents do. Why do you think Wall Street people ended up in charge of treasury.
Second, Trump is a bit different because he has very, very few "cronies". With the exception of Thiel he was basically alone during his campaign. He owes nothing to no one. I can't tell at the moment if it's a good or bad thing, but it's new, that's for sure.
lucm, indeed.
The sad reality is that this may very well have been the very last election in the USA.
Are you for real? You lose one election and all of a sudden democracy is dead?
From what I see, we actually dodged a bullet because Clinton supporters are apparently a bunch of fanatics like you.
lucm, indeed.
Instead of making wild accusations, why don't you explain exactly what's wrong with Trump's nominee for Education? The only thing she's truly famous for is her stance on right-to-choose and vouchers.
See, it takes more than "it's a Trump nominee" to label someone an incompetent. We're seeing the same pattern as during the election; there's nothing to support arguments, it's always just Trump=bad.
If you disagree with this nomination, explain why.
lucm, indeed.
Hillary did too, only difference, the masses didn't believe her.
Imagine the space program we could have.
Cite the margin of error
Sensitivity of mean global temperature to a doubling of CO2 is unknown to a factor of three according to the IPCC, the estimate ranges from 1.5 C to 4.5 C.
We're fanatics ? Because we fear that a fascist may act like a fascist and create a dictatorship - or start a nuclear war, both of which would prevent another election from happening.
How are WE the fanatics ? We're not suggesting it SHOULD be the last election - we're trying to fight to make sure it WON'T be.
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The disbelieving lobbyists and the action of Trump is political anti-science.
lets get ourselves onto Mars and work on cleaning up Earth
Yes, fortunately it said on this morning's news that we've solved the problems of Mars having no breathable atmosphere, magnetic field or (available) water and only 1/3 the gravity.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
Instead of making wild accusations, why don't you explain exactly what's wrong with Trump's nominee for Education? The only thing she's truly famous for is her stance on right-to-choose and vouchers.
She's not famous for anything, IMHO.
See, it takes more than "it's a Trump nominee" to label someone an incompetent. We're seeing the same pattern as during the election; there's nothing to support arguments, it's always just Trump=bad.
If you disagree with this nomination, explain why.
What we're seeing is you not seeing any of the arguments actually presented against Devos. Ever.
Ever.
Ever.
Ever.
Sorry, but when considering picks for running the Department of Education, I'd put her on the typical right-wing DESTROY PUBLIC SCHOOLS BECAUSE THEY HATE GOD committee.
Also, he lives at the top of a big tower.
All I want is a secure system where it's easy to do anything I want. Is that too much to ask ~~ Randall Munroe
Probably not as much as beef cattle.
All I want is a secure system where it's easy to do anything I want. Is that too much to ask ~~ Randall Munroe
In Britain, "trump" is a euphemism for "fart", so Trump Tower is definitely the right place.
All I want is a secure system where it's easy to do anything I want. Is that too much to ask ~~ Randall Munroe
You really believe that literally half of the US population is sexist facist, racist etc etc etc?
I think the election result suggests exactly that.
Or has everyone who voted Trump suddenly woken up and realised (like the Brexiters) that they need to blame their choice on it being some sort of banter, a humorous kick at the Establishment?
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
He attacked men for what they did (or their disabilities/etc.), and attacked women for being women. He also said it was fine to sexually assault women if you're famous. He also wants to toughen up on abortion. If you think he's treating men and women equally you really haven't been paying attention. You'd probably not have as many upsets if you looked at the actual arguments and not some superficial appraisal.
So basically, it's literally always the Democrats fault whatever happens even if the republicans do it.
My favourite was always the right wingers criticising Obama for not closing down the evil, internationally embarrassing (etc) concentration camp at Guantanamo Bay, when it was George W Bush who created it and Republicans who blocked any attempt to do anything about it.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
The answer is... EVERYWHERE! Therefore, we must spend ALL THE MONEY!
Where is the missing heat? Have you found it yet? It's a travesty that it can't be found.
Stellar explorers change your Galaxy.
Yes, undoubtedly we'll be visiting nearby stars by the end of Trump's presidency.
If he (a) invents a cure for mortality and (b) declares himself President for life.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
If facts don't matter, why spend money for them?
...and as a moron, he will likely do moronic things.
I don't think that the article is great journalism, but warning people about possible dangers is a valid function of the media.
https://www.youtube.com/c/BrendaEM
Actually, the evidence indicates that more of the masses believed her (1.7m+) but still lost because America is strange...
Fanatically anti-fanatical
Or maybe the job of president isn't always a referendum on character? I don't think people made the right choice this year, but it's obvious that it was people like you who drove many fence-sitters to the wrong decision... you refused to discuss the actual issues.
"Racism" was not a policy debate in this election. Immigration was.
"Misogyny" wasn't a policy position in this election. Anti-misogyny really wasn't either except among an especially cringy segment of the population (including Clinton and Sanders, sadly) who believe the $0.79 on the dollar "pay gap" can be solved through legislation. (The gap is mostly due to women choosing lower-paying jobs and working fewer hours, which you could argue is a cultural thing we need to change but it's not something you can just legislate away.) There was no proposal to legalize non-consensual pussy-grabbing... or did I miss that Trump speech?
"Xenophobia" wasn't a policy position in this election. Legal and illegal immigration from specific countries were the issues. (Putting aside some shit-talking from Trump about a religious test for entry--which is so obviously unlawful that even a conservative SCOTUS would probably strike it down unanimously.)
But please, do keep up the shaming. People like you have only given the Republicans both houses of Congress, the Presidency, and the likely ability to appoint an strongly conservative (probably reactionary) SCOTUS that will greatly influence this country for decades to come. I'm sure that if you can simply call Trump Hilter a hundred times a day, everyone is bound to come to their senses by 2020.
Dude, chill out. This "it may be the last election" thing is hyperbolic and silly. There's no reason (yet) to believe that Trump would do anything to end elections, and claiming there is now looks a lot like crying wolf. If you think it's going to happen, fine, be vigilant, but wait for evidence before you start screaming about it.
As a refresher, some people were claiming the exact same thing about G. W. Bush, when he was in power and clearly he didn't cancel the 2008 elections, now did he?
Fanatically anti-fanatical
I strongly suspect that NASA is suddenly going to find need for a bunch of new, advanced "weather satellites" ;)
Anyway, as for this article: POTUS can't just "scrap" some random part of NASA. NASA's budget is determined by congress. He can threaten vetoes, but he has to work with congress on the budget.
It's almost as if you believe that Donald understands how government works.
No sig today...
Indeed, as a former mayor of Toronto, Mel Lastman, said about the crack-smoking Mayor, Rob Ford:
There's a high probability that when Trump is done, Bush will be able to show his face in public again...
Fanatically anti-fanatical
You really have no idea what you're talking about, do you?
NASA Mission one as stated in the charter: To Understand and Protect Our Home Planet
That means conducting terrestrial science and research. Neither NOAA or NWS or any other agency launches and maintains satellites for terrestrial science. That falls on NASA.
~X~
EVERY OTHER PERSON WHO HAS EVER COME TO POWER SAYING THE THINGS HE SAID ENDED ELECTIONS.
Every. Single. One. Ever.
But Sure... after copying them every step of the way until now, there is no reason to suspect he will copy them further.
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By your same line of though, half of the american population is ok with massive corruption and cronysm and corrupt corporate cronysts themselves.
But we know that this is not the truth, don't we?
In reality, very few people do agree with the points of any of the candidates, and was more of a "choose the form of the destructor" deal rather than "pick someone you like", and they now have this giant trump wrecking NY rather than a giant hillary.
This will create an international outcry, and the predictable Trump answer will be: You want to keep it, you'll have to pay for it.
So you admit that Trump made xenophobia a policy position. Basically, you are in denial.
The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
Sure but the science is "settled" on those things so I'm sure that Mars will be fine to live on. /s
You attempt to explain away the misogyny as just talk. Did you miss the women who came forward to accuse him of actual assault?
Did you miss the part where I said that maybe not every presidential election comes down to a referendum on character? My mother and my sister both voted Trump. They previously voted for Obama. Twice. I can assure you, they don't have an ounce of "internalized misogyny" in their bones. My mother got a flier in the mail (she lives in a swing state) that was primarily bemoaning the fact that Trump once called Rosie O'Donnell a fat pig. She laughed, tossed it in the garbage.
And why shouldn't she? I don't agree with her vote for Trump, not at all, but she and my sister correctly perceived that there wasn't any misogynistic legislation being proposed beyond the abortion stuff which, while rather troubling, wasn't at the tops of their priority lists. This is a simple heuristic method of eliminating the stuff, no matter how dumb or odious it is, that isn't likely to matter in terms of policies Trump officially promotes.
The man could stop kittens to death in his spare time... oh well. If it's a crime, arrest him. If not, we've got much bigger things to worry about. Millions of people have come around to this way of thinking. It wasn't a sudden thing, either. Pretty sure it started in the late 90s with Bill and Monica.
So you admit that Trump made xenophobia a policy position. Basically, you are in denial.
No. Again, this is a heuristic approach. "Ok, he's calling for something that could literally never, ever happen in this country" ==> "ok, so what are they *actually* going to do once someone calms him down and tries to explain the constitution to him?"
Trump isn't half as clever as a lot of people around here seem to think he is, but he managed to at least accidentally stumble into a strategy where the left was provoked into frantically arguing about non-issues. Trump's illegal proposals were non-issues, except to the extent that it proved he was a asshole and a moron, but evidence on those counts was not lacking. Trump's misogyny, such as it was, was even less of an issue for anyone who had already called the personality contest a wash.
NOAA doesn't launch satellites, or maintain them in orbit. Nor do they have the facilities to do either. If NOAA picked up that job, they would either have to build all new facilities, or rent the existing ones from NASA (derp), and they would have to coordinate almost everything above the atmosphere with NASA no matter what. So assuming that we don't need any Earth-monitoring satellites, your plan is great. If we do, then it's a pretty fucking stupid idea.
Bill and Monica and (particularly) Juanita*, I should have said.
Build a spaceship on the moon or in the orbit.
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
Even if they did transfer the budget, which they won't, wouldn't that still be a blow to the research? Basically shutting down one functioning large group of people, contractors, companies, equipment, buildings, administration, systems, then bring another one up from scratch? I imagine the cost to be huge, what is it?
https://www.nasa.gov/pdf/1968m... [nasa.gov]
Mission I: To Understand and Protect Our Home Planet
Mission II: To Explore the Universe and Search for Life
Mission III: To Inspire the Next Generation of Explorers
At the time, the expected overlap between jets and rockets was larger. Though with the Space Shuttle, they did finally find something that went into space and used air.
Learn to love Alaska
Your argument is like that of a petulant child when called out: "s/he made me do it". It's funny how Republican supporters, who talk about personal responsibility now want to deflect responsibility for Trump's election on someone else.
Work on your reading comprehension. I'm not a Trump supporter (and in the post you replied to I clearly said "I don't think people made the right decision this year.") I am an anti-Trump leftist who was arguing on this very site, weeks before the election, that the anti-Trump rhetoric was backfiring disastrously.
For the rest, I can only refer you to my other reply. I know multiple female Obama supporters who voted for Trump. If you think it's more important that you bleat about the KKK and pussy grabbing twenty times a day for the next four years, so be it. Hopefully, others may realize that most people in this country are more concerned about actual policies. (And yes, Trump had some atrocious ones that were completely drowned out by the tsunami of tedious non-sequitur bullshit regarding just how big a racist and sexist he is.)
As for character, what about all the times Trump used the words: "lying Hillary". Was that not a character assassination?
Things that work very well for the right often don't work for the left. It's not fair. Life isn't fair. I'm beyond fairness; I'm trying to get people to care about what can actually work so that the left in this country can be fixed.
NOAA does not build or launch or maintain satellites. They don't. NASA does. That's what they do. NOAA does not have flight ops. NOAA does not have a launchpad. NOAA does not have giant clean room facilities for building satellites. NOAA provides the requirements, NASA builds/launches/maintains the satellites.
And they don't need to. I use a computer with complicated software every day for work. But I don't know how to build that complicated software, or the computer, or the chair I sit on.
There are a lot of companies out there, and a few countries too, that will happily design and put satellites in space for a fee. One of the big problems with government funded research (and I say this as someone who does not have a philosophical opposition to governments funding research) is that sooner or later, government departments see the big pile of money that is available for climate change programs, and want a piece of the action. NASA - because we know space, and can watch the climate from space. The army, because defending the country requires understanding the weather . climate - hence we want some of that action. EPA - because we protect the environment, and therefore we need to get in on the climate science action and therefore want that funding.
Why can't there be one organisation whose job it is to study the earth and climate, and let all other organisations do what they are meant to do, like look out into space, and find ways of protecting the environment without all needing to justifying everything on climate.
they're mostly looking to stop wars and shore up the economy. They'll still be lots of giveaways to the 1%, but Americans are mostly OK with that. What you'd mostly see out of a Democratic majority is Single payer health care, a smidge more immigration (Repubs are still very pro-immigration because they want that sweet, sweet cheap and pre-trained labor), legal abortion and (maybe) legal pot.
Basically they're going to run a right of center country with little bits of progress here and there. Exactly what you woulda got if Hillary had been elected.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
People like you have only given the Republicans both houses of Congress, the Presidency, and the likely ability to appoint an strongly conservative (probably reactionary) SCOTUS that will greatly influence this country for decades to come.
How many Cruz-supporters / Republicans do you know who refer to conservatives as "reactionaries"?
This misunderstanding here is important and illustrative. Your attempt to pigeonhole me and launch into autopilot lecture-me-about-teh-evil-right-wing is the problem right there. That shit did not and is not going to work on actual Trump voters going forward. I know it feels really important and energizing to you, and maybe it does serve a useful political purpose in energizing the base of the party, but among independents and fence-sitters it makes you look weak and unable to engage in the issues that really matter.
You know you will need to travel through atmo to get in orbit first, right ?
Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
Not really. If the spaceship is built in the orbit, it will never see the atmosphere.
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
I agree they were there and not hidden, but no, they didn't swing this election. It's getting old saying this, but I personally know at least three liberal females who voted for Obama twice and voted for Trump this election. I don't agree with their reasons, but it's obvious enough to me that one of the reasons why they did this (and none of them liked Trump's personality, obviously) is because they did not hear enough good, policy-centered criticisms of Trump. The criticisms were sort of there, they weren't nonexistent, but they were conflated with and utterly drowned out by a tsunami of white noise (a term I'm using advisedly.)
Trump wasn't proposing any anti-woman legislation beyond his anti-abortion stuff which, while very worrying[1], apparently simply isn't a top concern for a lot of people. Trump wasn't proposing any anti-black stuff that I'm aware of beyond some bombastic pro-police statements that are unlikely to spawn much legislation of consequence[2]. Trump wasn't proposing any anti-Latino measures for people who were citizens. The measures he were proposing against Latino non-citizens are a mixture of dumb, cruel, and maybe-could-be-somewhat-reasonable-if-modified, but anyone who was paying attention realized that just as actual racists use "immigration reform" as a proxy to avoid talking about racism, people who don't want to get in a debate on immigration reform use "racism" as an excuse not to, and in this country it does appear that the latter group of people is a bigger than the former.
The neo-nazis alone did not and could not have swung this election on their own. The failure of the left is right there to see, plain as day. I really hope you people can wake up and see what's going on before 2018 (let alone 2020).
1. SCOTUS stuff in general is why I very early on wrote off any possibility of supporting Trump, even if he swung centrist on the other issues.
2. More important is the implied absence of much-needed indictment and prosecution reform, but that's far too subtle a nuance for the mainstream media to bother with. (Not even the BLM people can manage it, as they'd much rather wail because people won't admit the full extent of racism as they see it instead of pursuing actual solutions that will reduce racist outcomes.)
All that deniers and pseudo-skeptics require is that there be an objection. The objection doesn't have to make sense, it doesn't have to be rational, it can even be an outright lie, but the mere fact that there was an objection made furthers the notion of uncertainty, that the basic claims of the theory under attack are themselves being questioned.
I spent a number of years in my younger days debating Creationists, and I see the identical pattern of anti-scientists making absurd claims and even more absurd demands, moving the goal posts when those demands are met, invoking every possible fallacy, claiming conspiracies when all else fails, the whole drive being "I've read this objection, therefore the whole theory is false!"
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Going to have to be a pretty high orbit to avoid all traces of atmosphere.
You also have the issue of launching materials into orbit, which likely involves atmospheric interactions.
Help Brendan pay off his student loans
He might just know about the power of a "pen and a phone" which his predecessor has been fond of using.
Help Brendan pay off his student loans
Trump has 4 years and a Republican congress to change immigration laws such that they favor NW Europeans. Don't count your chickens!
Progressivism: Parasites helping parasites to help themselves - to other people's stuff.
Strange that we have certain rules which all parties knew about in advance?
Lemme guess, you probably also think it is strange that in say... Baseball or tennis, that the overall winner can have scored fewer points overall compared to the loser.
Help Brendan pay off his student loans
We of the four-digit UID club have delegated language policing to the five-digiters.
Yeah, I've made that point too elsewhere. I haven't looked in depth at the stats... it could well be that's where the story should be centered--lack of enthusiasm (turnout), particularly among younger voters. My conversations with my friends and family, particularly the three females I know who voted for Trump (all of whom were Obama supporters), currently have me more interested in the actual swing voters in this election. But maybe I shouldn't dwell so heavily on this point until I've looked at some exit polls closer.
Still, my points basically hold regardless if we're talking about lack of enthusiasm or people swinging Trump. Fear can motivate people to the polls, actual rational "hey look at what's going to happen to laws XYZ" fear, not endless whinging about character flaws.
You really want those idiots in charge of the F35 in charge of developing economical space travel?
As opposed to the Skylab, space shuttle disasters and other failures? Yes.
lucm, indeed.
"It's all your fault for nagging so much" - classic abuser gaslighting. Did you really want to evoke that?
In most times, most places, by most people, liars are considered contemptible. - Ursula Le Guin
It's not about overpopulation. There is plenty of land for us, it's about the resources we use. It's the things we use once and throw away. If we all start walking instead of driving, growing our own food, washing our cloths and dishes by hand, and abandon awesome things like rubber, Styrofoam, and plastics.... maybe we can slow the train a little bit. Problem is, these are the things we western nations reject out of hand.
2 children use twice an many resources as you. Their children will use twice as many as them. That's the exponential growth that scares me. It's not the space they use.
Eventually, we will travel the stars. The only question is will it be before or after some global emergency. NASA is supposed to be studying aeronautics and pushing the ball forward on space exploration. Enable that mission. Stop distracting our rocket scientists with side quests that are supposed to fall in the EPAs lap.
While climate change is terrifying, the fuse is already burning. Let the EPA do what the EPA does, and let NASA do what NASA does. Make all the data public. I would argue that the NASA budget and EPA budget should split the defense budget between them and really focus on their specific missions...... but I am not a politician or an accountant, so that's none of my business.
You are being ripped off every second of every day, so that advertisers can help rip you off even more tomorrow.
Does that call for a string of 4-letter expletives in response?
Just joking, but of course the real objective is to stir up a 3-digit UID... Do I even fear the wrath of a 2-digit UID?
Actually, I'm just a whippersnapper around here. I can't remember ever seeing a single-digit UID in action. Are they mythical beasts?
Mostly I should just stand on my original condemnation of the bad math of the OP in this thread, though that reply was essentially eclipsed by this later branch.
Abuse of math is too common these days... Just finishing a new philosophy book from France that abuses transfinite numbers to attack Kant. (Hume ain't dead. He's just resting. Don't stun him.)
Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
No, that was not "ad hominem" argumentation, which is attacking the speaker instead of the argument. The argument was clearly centred on the misuse of data. The cursing was extra to the argument, an expression of exasperation. Quite justified in my view. Do you really prefer rubbish dressed up in nice words?
In most times, most places, by most people, liars are considered contemptible. - Ursula Le Guin
You aren't wrong.
But, to play devils advocate, when exactly in Germany did it go from being "severely disturbed" to talk about Hitler creating a dictatorship... to it being a defacto reality?
Also, bear in mind, that once it is done, it's way too late to start warning people about it.
I personally, don't see Trump creating a dictator ship... ... but he's seems on the road to make a series of catastrophically ignorant decisions coupled with almost no shame or ethics with respect to maintaining any separation between his presidency and his business interests.
the primary UN body that says things about climate change is the IPCC which is just about entirely staffed by scientists.
Of course, it all hinges on his attempt at deceptively claiming the IPCC is actually a political body.
And your argument hinges on your attempt at deceptively claiming these two things are mutually exclusive. People with science degrees are not magically immune to politics.
It'll nice to stop this silly Alt-Left nonsense and get back to some actual issues, like jobs and such.
Ferret
Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc
You're the one who linked to a liberal "Dear Abby" website to defend your position about Devos. Don't come here crying about the fact that it's a completely ridiculous way to back an already biased position.
lucm, indeed.
I expect Trump to be a cross between Jimmy Carter and Richard Nixon. A mix between narcissistic mania and abject apathy. It’s going to be a crazy show. LOL
Only recently.
Now it's a tiny collection of personal cronies instead of what you are thinking of which was people associated with a political party with numbers around six digits.
That's why it is a problem that he's stacking the deck with those few instead of looking outside his circle. If you only have a few people to choose from some batshit insane idiot with no experience at running anything becomes a contender, as you'll see if you look at some of the people mentioned in the press so far.
Heck of a job!
Yeah it does feel a bit like playing dodge ball in high school and the only people left to pick for your team are the rejects, the nutjobs and the wheelchair kids.
Can you imagine having to give Teabaggers a position in your administration, that must be fun.
lucm, indeed.
Breathtaking contempt for the people, admiration for ruthless authoritarians who opened fire at Tiananmen Square in 1989, and a conclusion that this gives them a moral high ground. Wow. Adolf Hitler, is that you? If not, take a long hard look at yourself and what you just said.
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
So, will all climate research stop?
Don't other countries have agencies that do similar research?
If not, then why the hell are we expected to do/$pend it all??
What we're seeing is you not seeing any of the arguments actually presented against Devos. Ever. Ever. Ever.
What arguments? instead of linking random, irrelevant sites, explain those arguments yourself, in your own words.
Of course you won't because just like the whole Clinton campaign this is just more vague, baseless accusations that only surf on "trump=bad" with zero substance whatsoever. If you had had any real point to bring up you would already have done so instead of trying to paint me as the one who doesn't stay on topic. Your trolling is weak, pal.
lucm, indeed.
"Commercial Space Flight" without rockets? Using what? Pixie dust? Build a scramjet with 60s technology? Yeah, that woulda worked.
That's what I meant. To build in orbit you have to GET in orbit. That means going through atmosphere. Even if you build from materials in orbit - you would still need to get the pilot there.
I suppose you could conceivably build an unmanned craft entirely in orbit... but you would still need to get the construction tools into orbit and that, again, requires going through the atmosphere.
Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
Trump claimed that 'Mexico does not send us their best'. Forgetting his racist claims about the people who emigrate from Mexico to America - there is some truth to that part, America does mostly get Mexico's poor and struggling. Or to put it another way - they get exactly the people they invited ! The plaque on the statue of liberty reads: "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!". Sounds like a pretty good description of the refugees and immigrants Trump is so opposed to. Which raises the point: if you seriously believe that Trump's approach to immigration is correct - then you should be petitioning to have the statue returned to France because America clearly neither deserves nor wants it anymore.
Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
One teabagger is a 44 year old lawyer with less then ten years work experience outside of Party politics yet Reince is considered fit to be White House Chief of Staff. There are probably a thousand better choices just on this site.
Quoting the GP:
"The fraud is (mostly) not coming from scientists. But politicians are politicians"
Clearly the person I was responding to was making that claim - and I was showing that in light of his OWN claim he is being deceptive and trying to pretend the IPCC is not filled with scientists - the very people he just called mostly honest.
Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
No, I don't need to petition to send the statue back to France. The statue was built in 1886. The plaque was presented by friends of Emma Lazarus in 1903. They have nothing to do with each other.
And since when do we legislate policy by hanging inspirational plaques on statues, anyway? What part of the constitution does that fall under?
Progressivism: Parasites helping parasites to help themselves - to other people's stuff.
When the international symbol of your country (which is odd since there are six statues of liberty and only one is in America) declares an belief system that half the country rejects- it clearly doesn't belong there.
By the way - good luck with Trump changing the demographic path through immigration reform - it has a near-zero chance of working. Firstly because it isn't immigration that is changing the demographics. Immigration with Mexico has been negative for years, if anything, the wall will ACCELERATE the pace of the demographic change by making it harder for people to go TO Mexico (who outnumber those coming from Mexico).
The things that ARE driving the demographic change is primarily different birth rates, which is directly correlated with income and education levels - Trump policies are likely to exacerbate those inequalities which would ALSO increase the rate of change if it does.
If Trump does any of the things he campaigned on - it would accelerate the demographic changes. A lot of the change for the next election is American born kids by the way, who weren't of voting age in this election but will be then. Trump may have gotten the most social conservative Hispanics but youth social conservatism is basically non-existent - and the Hispanic and black populations are getting younger (unlike their white counterparts) so the social conservative parts of those populations are shrinking.
Now in theory you could mean that by favoring white immigrants Trump could whiteify the country so much that it would change the picture. There are two problems though. Firstly - the very same super burocratic system that has caused so many imigrants to be undocumented will also harm his plan: no way he can get a significant number of white people AND get them to be eiligible to vote by 2020. Not unless he radically improves the greencard process - which would benefit the poor and people like Hispanics and Muslims as well - and far moreso than it would benefit whites. The second problem is trhat he won't be able to find whites who would vote for him. Where would he get them from ?
The GOP isn't a whites-only party, it's an AMERICAN whites only party.
Nowhere else in the world are white people uneducated and racist enough to vote for him. Even in France Marine Le Pen didn't become a serious contended in politics until she massively reduced the racism of the party (indeed firing anybody in the party who makes a racist comment as official policy). She had to go to the center - somethign Trump never did.
The whites of the rest of the planet are appalled by Trump, his only support came from pockets of white supremacists - but they are extremely rare outside the US. If he imports every white South African who longs for the days of appartheid he would make no dent in the numbers. Add every white supremacist in Europe, Australia and New Zeeland, hell import every person on the planet outside the USA who supported him and it's still not enough - there just wasn't any significant such group of people !
For once, American exceptionalism was right. You are the WORST country on earth in this regard, nowhere else is this bad anymore. For once, you really are exceptional - and it doesn't bode well for this plan.
Finally - this is all academic since Trump can't pass any of those laws and if he did the supreme court - no matter how stacked - WILL throw it out since it would be unconstitutional. The constitution clearly states that immigration laws cannot violate any other constitutional right. So sorry, you can't keep out Muslim refugees - that violates the first amendment. You can't favour white immigrants - that violates several amendments.
And the court, like it's counterparts around the world, has a long history of judging a law by it's effects -not just its words. If the law in PRACTISE discriminates on religion or race it is unconstitutional - even if neither is mentioned anywhere in it, you can't get around the constitution by writing a law that pretends to be about something else when that some
Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
A mere 97% of people who are actually active, publishing climatologists accept it.
You know, if I go to 30 doctors, and all but one tell me I have a serious disease, but the other one says "Meh, you're fine, take a few aspirin and you'll feel better", I always trust the latter one, don't you?
Wingus, Dingus! Listen up!
I hardly think that a few unproductive ghost cities are going to be worse than a country that spends 16 to 20% of its budget on unproductive military toys. No wonder your economy is so bad when you spend so much on gold plated toilet seats.
Facts are history now plebs have politics for religion on social media.
You must be joking - have you taken a look at the platform that Trump just got elected on? more waterboarding, ban all Muslims, repatriate 13M Mexicans, go back to coal. The USA is as authoritarian as they come and doesn't even pretend to be otherwise these days now there is no inconvenient Soviet Union to compare themselves with. Also let me know how the pipeline protesters are getting on against the paramilitary police, I hear one of them just had her arm shot off. Is it not also a sign of an authoritarian state when the black minority keeps being randomly shot dead by the police. Frankly I find little to choose between the USA and China these days.
Facts are history now plebs have politics for religion on social media.
So true.
Facts are history now plebs have politics for religion on social media.
you do realize that the GOP in congress has been waging war on NOAA's scientists for quite some time, no?
and that NOAA and NASA work in concert to accomplish the research?
NASA isn't just space exploration.
they are the primary researcher for earth sciences where space based observation and data (which a HUGE CHUNK OF CLIMATE SCIENCE) is relevant.
The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
Given that that's exactly the law we had prior to 1965's Hart-Celler act, it's certainly not unconstitutional! And foreigners not resident in the US don't have constitutional rights. For immigration, the law can discriminate any damn way we want it to.
Progressivism: Parasites helping parasites to help themselves - to other people's stuff.
>Given that that's exactly the law we had prior to 1965's Hart-Celler act,
In other words - "We've had an unconstitutional law before, we can do it again".
> And foreigners not resident in the US don't have constitutional rights
Doesn't matter. The constitution does not say 'their' constitutional rights, it JUST says 'any constitutional right' - in other words, if it's in the constitution it applies to people seeking to immigrate.
> For immigration, the law can discriminate any damn way we want it to.
You know... why the hell did the Founding Fathers qualify the permission for government to make immigration laws by adding "as long as it does not violate any constitutional right" if what you're saying is true ?
Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
I can't believe that we are going to have to go through this again. Didn't we learn anything from when George Bush was president?
But the 12 NOAA climate-data "adjustments" in a row that have each cooled the past and warmed the present can't be considered "politicized science" since that could totally be legitimate compensations for random errors. You're totally likely to randomly select the same of six options 12 times in a row; this happens 100/6^12 = 0.000000046% if the time!
The adjustments were made to correct for the effects of station moves from town centers to outlying airport (and other) locations. Drill down into the unadjusted NOAA data (ftp://ftp.ncdc.noaa.gov/pub/data/ghcn/v3/) and you will find that *hundreds* of airport stations have data records going back prior to the existence of airports. Those stations were obviously moved. For more info, see a summary of my own independent analysis of the NOAA temperature data here: http://forums.sandiegouniontri...
Read this: http://forums.sandiegouniontri...
In this case they are showing raw data that speaks for itself. I don't care who published it, that looks pretty definitively like an attempt at deliberate manipulation of the data on NOAA's part.
I crunched the raw data myself and got the same warming trend that NASA and NOAA get. See http://forums.sandiegouniontri... for details
It's not Trump and his followers that people need to worry about, it's the disgruntled liberals and their extreme anger and intolerance which is a path to dictatorship.
If a "disgruntled populace and extreme anger and intolerance" is a path to dictatorship. Then "Trump and his followers" represent that demographic to a tee.
I'm not saying that there isn't plenty of harmful extremism on the left too. Because we both know there is. But to pretend "Trump and his supporters" aren't disgruntled, aren't extremely angry, and aren't intolerant undermines any credibility you might have.
Clinton
This debate really has NOTHING to do with Clinton. Why even bring her up? We should be evaluating Trump on his own merit, his own words, and his own actions now.
But fine... if you want to talk about clinton... let's do that...
would have never had the guts to pull the plug on this
A treaty needs 2/3rds of the Senate before it can be ratified. If the TPP ever became law, blame the Senate. Slightly over half of it is republican. If 2/3rds of senate approve the TPP, the problem is not Hillary.
she would have happily sold the country to foreign interests
The US, as in most treaties it signs, would be the primary benefactor of the TPP. Not regular US citizens perhaps, but US "interests" nonetheless. Sold the country to domestic corporate interests. Sold the country to the domestic 1% interests would be more accurate if you want to be critical of what she would have done.
On the other hand Trump is the 1% of the 1%. And he doesn't have the shame or ethics to even comprehend a need to separate his business interests from his presidency. He said what he said to get elected. He might be well be willing to turf the TPP (to thunderous applause); but only because he thinks he can get himself a better deal.
just like she changed her stance on bankruptcy to please her Wall Street backers.
Indeed. Hillary was 'bought and paid for' by the so called elite 1%. Trump on the other hand IS the elite 1%. He's not beholden to corporate backers to serve their business interests...so he's free to do his own thing. But the only thing Trump has ever done is "serve himself". You might as well have elected "Goldman Sachs" as president; that's not beholden to corporate interests either... at least not to OTHER corporate interests.
You have no idea what the hell you're talking about.
8 USC 1182(f)
Progressivism: Parasites helping parasites to help themselves - to other people's stuff.
Next 4 years will be [b]very interesting[/b]! Prepare truckloads of pop corn, and possibly a nuclear shelter with truckloads of canned beans, tomatos, and powdered milk and potatos. Don't forget the liquids of some kind, too, as the water will be too polluted.
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." - Jiddu Krishnamurti
You mean the measured amount of heat entering the planet is greater then then the amount leaving it and they have no idea where it is going?
My Transformation Website
Kindle Books http://www.catprog.org/rev
Interactive CYOA http://www.catprog.org/st
Just remember Mr. Right Wing dumb ass, you're on the same planet as everyone else. Even if it is another universe.
So, Trump (the Tangerine Buffooni bird) thinks that taking a political stance to end another political perspective is achieving clarity? We have not only elected a nitwit, but a blind one at that. Look at the political leaders who have eliminated perspectives that don't agree with theirs. They are called demagogues initially, but they become dictators. A dictator is someone that wants everybody to agree with everything that they say--whether there is any validity to it or not. Trump is a thin-skinned, humorless and petty man whose brain is AS SMALL AS HIS FINGERS.
In other words, every scientist that says something you don't like becomes a politician, so that it's okay to disregard what he said.
In other words . . .
What, were my actual words too inconvenient for you?
Kinda. You add many extraneous words to conceal the substance of your argument.
but the majority of models are much more tightly clustered within it
You're speaking of models not of reality. The reality is that they currently have huge error bars for the most important parameter in climate research today.
That's an interesting perspective given how succinct my argument actually was:
People with science degrees are not magically immune to politics.
Normally I would expect that to be a fairly uncontroversial proposition.
It is not. But then you're implying that said non-immunity matters specifically when discussing this one topic on which you disagree with them.
Oh.. and you think that somehow, magically, unlike every single other power the president has - THAT one is not subject to checks and balances ?
Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
Not if the construction tools are built on the moon or an asteroid.
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
Then you need atmospheric flight to get there to build them. We are on earth. We cant go anywhere else without at least passing through atmo once.
Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
It's also strange that people seem to keep forgetting that the United States is actually 50 countries not 1. Kind of the like claiming Germany should be called Europe just because it is in the European Union.
That is why the popular vote means jack squat in the end.