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Microsoft Shares Windows 10 Telemetry Data With Third Parties (betanews.com)

An anonymous reader shares a report: To help with the smooth running of Windows 10, and to get an idea of how users interact with the operating system, Microsoft collects telemetry data, which includes information on the device Windows 10 is running on, a list of installed apps, crash dumps, and more. Telemetry data recorded by Windows 10 is, in a nutshell, just technical information about the device the OS is on, and how Windows and any installed software is performing, but it can occasionally include personal information. If you're worried about that, the news that Microsoft is sharing telemetry data with third parties might concern you. Microsoft recently struck a deal with security firm FireEye to provide access to Windows 10 telemetry data, in exchange for having FireEye's iSIGHT Threat Intelligence technology included in its Windows Defender Advanced Threat Protection service. WDATP is an enterprise security product that helps enterprises detect, investigate, and respond to advanced attacks on their networks and is different from the free version of Windows Defender. The upsides of the deal are obvious for both Microsoft and FireEye, and enterprise customers will certainly benefit from the partnership. It's not known exactly what data Microsoft has made available to FireEye, but in a detailed TechNet article on its telemetry gathering the software giant originally said: "Microsoft may share business reports with OEMs and third party partners that include aggregated and anonymized telemetry information. Data-sharing decisions are made by an internal team including privacy, legal, and data management."

98 of 175 comments (clear)

  1. Shocking turn of events by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ...not really, you buy their product and then they sell you as a product.

  2. I bet Airbus use Windows 10 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    It's a trustworthy operating system.

    1. Re:I bet Airbus use Windows 10 by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      I bet Airbus already share critical information with FireEye. A lot of major multi-nationals do.

  3. Although I would never trust them.. by ChodaBoyUSA · · Score: 2

    ...it is too bad they do not offer a paid version of the OS without the spyware. This behavior is the best thing to happen for Apple sales in a long time.

    1. Re:Although I would never trust them.. by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      To get Mac OS, you have to buy a heavily overpriced computer.

      You pay equivalent prices to get equivalent products from Apple's competitors, Hateboi. What Apple doesn't do is make $400 POS specials.

    2. Re:Although I would never trust them.. by DogDude · · Score: 1

      They do. FTFA:
      "You can change the level under Diagnostic and usage data and also set the Feedback frequency to Never if you simply want to opt out."

      --
      I don't respond to AC's.
    3. Re:Although I would never trust them.. by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      To get Mac OS, you have to buy a heavily overpriced computer.

      My overpriced 2006 Black MacBook (yes, I paid the extra $200 for the black version) is still ticking along. Running Mint Linux instead of Mac OS X. If I wanted to, I can install Windows 10 and it run just fine.

    4. Re:Although I would never trust them.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That means they would have to loudly announce they have a spyware version.

      As it is, the vast majority of people don't know Windows is sharing their data. They just know Windows 10 forced itself on to their computer and kinda sucks.

    5. Re:Although I would never trust them.. by fbobraga · · Score: 1

      Even low end machines run very well with Gnome3/Unity/Cinnamon (and there's XFCE, if needed...): no need to buy overpriced stuff to run real OSes

    6. Re:Although I would never trust them.. by fbobraga · · Score: 1

      My overpriced 2006 Black MacBook (yes, I paid the extra $200 for the black version) is still ticking along. Running Mint Linux instead of Mac OS X. If I wanted to, I can install Windows 10 and it run just fine.

      ... but MacOS, the SO the hardware was made for, bring your machine to it's knees, no?

    7. Re:Although I would never trust them.. by MyFirstNameIsPaul · · Score: 1

      Dollars to doughnuts that gets flipped after updates every 6 months or so.

      --

      I once took an excursion to Reddit, and later HN. Unlimited up/down voting sucks when dealing with a hive-mind.

    8. Re:Although I would never trust them.. by ilsaloving · · Score: 2

      They do. It's enterprise edition. Currently only available to companies with Software Assurance, but they are apparently planning on making it available to us plebes on a subscription basis ($8/month, I believe)

    9. Re:Although I would never trust them.. by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "You can change the level under Diagnostic and usage data and also set the Feedback frequency to Never if you simply want to opt out."

      To be frank, I don't believe you can actually "opt-out" of the monitoring and telelmetry, no matter what they claim.

      I bet you could turn off every single telemetry-related setting and disable all of the "Diagnostic and usage data" widgets, and Windows would still be found to be sending all sorts of info back to Microsoft.

      I just don't believe a word Microsoft says about monitoring or not monitoring users anymore, period.

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    10. Re:Although I would never trust them.. by ilsaloving · · Score: 1

      The lowest Microsoft will permit you to go is Basic unless you are using Enterprise Edition. If you are using Home or Pro, you cannot shut off Telemetry, nor can you shut off updates.

    11. Re:Although I would never trust them.. by JoeyRox · · Score: 2

      It's also available via an MSDN subscription.

    12. Re:Although I would never trust them.. by fbobraga · · Score: 2

      Yes. They should be good Socialists like Google. Or the government of Venezuela.

      Booth your examples are badly incorrect (government of Venezuela can be socialist only in the name, like in "Democratic Republic of North Korea" or the name of the nazi party in Germany before WWII)

    13. Re:Although I would never trust them.. by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I expect that they will introduce a subscription model next (they wanted to do this fore Windows 7, IIRC, but was axed because they Ballmer didn't have to cojones to pull it off), or an a la carte Windows licensing model, where you only pay for the features you want (which sounds great in theory, but only means that you'll end up paying 3x more for the feature you already have now).

      Uh, no, Microsoft just realized that:

      a) PCs are a declining market
      b) PCs remain viable far longer than they used to
      c) Very few Windows users upgrade their OS - they "upgrade" when they buy a new computer
      d) The world is going mobile, multi-platform, and cloud-based

      All this means that it's better for MS to just sell (it's no longer free, in case you forgot) one perpetually-updating version of Windows to reduce long-term support commitments, and to encourage as many people as possible to get on board. Windows is now just another platform for their subscription services. But the subscription service is NOT Windows. Instead, you have Office 365, Azure cloud services, Xbox Gold, MSDN, Solitaire Games (seriously?), and so on, and of course, they make money with Windows Store purchases.

      The big danger with this, as people rightly point out, that Windows users stop being Microsoft's customers and are instead a captive marketing audience at best, and a product at worst. Thus, decisions like these.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    14. Re: Although I would never trust them.. by fbobraga · · Score: 1

      Google is even worse

      [citation needed]

    15. Re:Although I would never trust them.. by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      ... but MacOS, the SO the hardware was made for, bring your machine to it's knees, no?

      I still have a Snow Leopard OS X partition that works fine. However, since Apple stopped supporting 32-bit processors, third-party updates for 32-bit software stopped coming. Since the web browser is my primary tool, I installed an OS that supported 32-bit processors for security updates.

    16. Re:Although I would never trust them.. by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 2

      Correct. That's just "Feedback frequency". You can't opt-out of telemetry completely, according to their own settings. You can only set "Diagnostics and usage data" to "Full (recommended)", "Enhanced", or "Basic."

      This is the part that really bothers me. I'm completely fine with whatever default settings there are, but users should be able to turn it off. It wouldn't have even hurt Microsoft, since most people wouldn't have bothered, but instead they feel the need to force some minimal levels of data collection on everyone.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    17. Re: Although I would never trust them.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "It has been an evil company from day 1"
      Evil or not they were able to build MS into one of the most successful and influential companies in the world. Their dominance was achieved by building a platform that ran on commodity hardware instead of Apple's proprietary hardware model. Early non-MS application competitors willingly sold their technologies to MS instead of trying to compete. Word Perfect, Lotus 1-2-3, and the Borland application development stack are just a few examples. Netscape dominated the browser market and then they ruined their browser and ultimately created a bloated piece of shit which allowed MS the time needed to increase the IE adoption rate.
      It was easy for MS to achieve market dominance when they had no serious competitors. MS didn't begin life as a company worth billions and during that time of vulnerability no one stood up and tried to seriously compete with MS. MS had invest money in Apple to make sure they stayed a viable company just so MS could use them as an example of a competing company in court. And that investment gave Apple enough cash and the time to get their iPod product built and released. The rest is history as Apple started creating their i* product lines.

      MS has always been a corporation looking to maximize it's revenue. They have never been a charity or non-profit organization. Ask yourself a question. You start a company from scratch and then work tirelessly to grow the success of your company. When do you stop and tell yourself that you are successful enough and therefor you should quit trying to improve your company?

      There are plenty of non-MS products and platforms available today. It only took 25 years for someone to basically port the Unix OS onto a x86 platform. This new platform has been enormously extensible in some areas but the lack of quality desktop applications has kept the desktop adoption rate in the single digits while the adoption rate is hugely successful in the data center and mobile market. However the success has created a fragmented ecosystem with incompatible and unsupported applications. It took about the same amount of time for someone to resurrect the dead and buried Netscape browser, eliminating the bloat, and then renaming it Firefox.

      If the people complaining about MS shortfalls spent the same amount of time creating alternatives they could stop bitching. Competing with successful companies is not easy but it can be done with the right amount of determination.

    18. Re: Although I would never trust them.. by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      You cant even write to a TEXT FILE on Android without downloading an app from the store, with all its could features and telemetry...Android still doesnt have a file manager that Google is willing to show to users (its hidden). They tried removing the ability to read/write ext3/4 on Chrome...Google is the new MS.

      --
      Good-bye
    19. Re:Although I would never trust them.. by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      Standard-issue Hateboi selective comparison, more likely. Sure, your ASUS has a faster processor - and is two pounds heavier, or has a cheap display, or half the battery life, etc etc. SSDD.

    20. Re: Although I would never trust them.. by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      Basically ignoring the fact that Apple does not compete in every segment of the market, and then chugging Hatorade over it. I said equivalent products for equivalent prices for a reason. That Apple doesn't make a 6 lbs gaming laptop with SLI graphics cards does not mean their 15" laptop sucks. It means they don't have an equivalent product in that segment.

    21. Re:Although I would never trust them.. by malditaenvidia · · Score: 1

      Right, good old Google, with their selfless google analytics scripts all over the internet gathering harmless data for adsense opportu^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hthe good of the people. Surely we would be much better off with chromeOS on every desktop.

    22. Re:Although I would never trust them.. by theronb · · Score: 1

      Speaking from inside: Yes it is; no they don't. Look at our last election cycle.

    23. Re:Although I would never trust them.. by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      ...it is too bad they do not offer a paid version of the OS without the spyware. This behavior is the best thing to happen for Apple sales in a long time.

      I agree.

      Apple not only doesn't care to market user data, it has additionally found that PRIVACY is actually a marketable and DISTINGUISHABLE FEATURE.

    24. Re:Although I would never trust them.. by ilsaloving · · Score: 1

      True, but then you're promising to only use the licenses for development purposes. MSDN subscriptions are not permitted for production (ie: end user) user.

    25. Re:Although I would never trust them.. by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      Even low end machines run very well with Gnome3/Unity/Cinnamon (and there's XFCE, if needed...): no need to buy overpriced stuff to run real OSes

      Real OSes without real Application support, you mean...

    26. Re: Although I would never trust them.. by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 2

      Basically every high end windows product blows an equivalently priced mac out of the water. Thats why everyone has spent the last few years complaining about apple, and why the latest refresh has been such a disappointment for people.

      ...and that must by why the latest refresh of the MacBook Pro are breaking all Sales Records, right?

    27. Re: Although I would never trust them.. by fbobraga · · Score: 1

      You still live in the early 2000's? It's 2016: even virtualization (if needed) runs well on low end hardware now

    28. Re: Although I would never trust them.. by fbobraga · · Score: 1

      I'm not American...

    29. Re:Although I would never trust them.. by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      They do. FTFA: "You can change the level under Diagnostic and usage data and also set the Feedback frequency to Never if you simply want to opt out."

      Which you will have to remember to RE-SET Every single time there's an Update, Security Patch, or it's Tuesday.

    30. Re: Although I would never trust them.. by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      You cant even write to a TEXT FILE on Android without downloading an app from the store, with all its could features and telemetry...Android still doesnt have a file manager that Google is willing to show to users (its hidden). They tried removing the ability to read/write ext3/4 on Chrome...Google is the new MS.

      Wait! I thought one of the Fandroids complaints about IOS was lack of access to the filesystem via a built-in file manager.

      Now you're telling me that Android doesn't have a user-accessible File Manager either???

    31. Re:Although I would never trust them.. by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      To get Mac OS, you have to buy a heavily overpriced computer.

      You pay equivalent prices to get equivalent products from Apple's competitors, Hateboi. What Apple doesn't do is make $400 POS specials.

      There is a special kind of PC user. For some reason he has to hate the competition. As you noted, if you are going to buy a comparable product, you will pay a comparable price.

      Unfortunately, these guys think that it is somehow appropriate to compare the cheapest Black Friday Windows machine as an exact equivalent of a Mac Pro. And tryinf to reason with them is like talking to post-truth acolytes.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    32. Re:Although I would never trust them.. by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Utter BS. My laptop is FAR superior to any Macbook and cost significantly less.

      What is it?

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    33. Re:Although I would never trust them.. by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      If the web browser is your primary tool, why do you post here?

      Slashdot exists to keep me amuse while I'm waiting for a script to finish running at work. I loved trolling the trolls.

    34. Re: Although I would never trust them.. by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      Five bucks says you can't get Win 10 running on that hardware without resorting to a VM.

      Pay up! See 5:15 of the YouTube link.

      The 8-Bit Guy: Is it Obsolete - The Core Duo MacBook?
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJw8aSxEFwQ

    35. Re: Although I would never trust them.. by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      You still live in the early 2000's? It's 2016: even virtualization (if needed) runs well on low end hardware now

      Oh, for example, has Adobe ported their apps to Linux, and if so, which Distro?

      And if you are talking about running stuff under WINE (since we all know the answer to the question regarding Adobe Creative Cloud running directly on Linux), the answer still appears to be "not so much"...

    36. Re: Although I would never trust them.. by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      VMware player...

      That's no more "not running Windows" than it would be to use BootCamp, Parallels, or VMWare Fusion on a Mac.

      Being "Free from Windows" MEANS JUST EXACTLY THAT. WINE Counts (but it will never "catch up"); but Virtualization and dual-booting does NOT, regardless if you are dual-booting on a "Wintel" machine that you consider a "Linux machine", or a Mac that you consider a "macOS" machine.

    37. Re:Although I would never trust them.. by mea2214 · · Score: 1

      I'm worried about a keylogger that would reveal usernames and passwords. Because of this I can't trust this box for any sensitive sites like banking even when doing most all browsing in a Virtual Box Ubuntu VM. Is there any way to verify Microsoft isn't keylogging?

    38. Re:Although I would never trust them.. by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

      Is there any way to verify Microsoft isn't keylogging?

      I doubt it. Perhaps by logging all the outbound traffic and inspecting it closely, but if they've encrypted it or obfuscated it in some way then you might not spot it. In short, I don't think you can trust MS with your sensitive info no matter what they say.

      I do think that what you're doing,using a VM in Ubuntu, is probably pretty secure,

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    39. Re:Although I would never trust them.. by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Alienware 17 (2016)

      Core i7 6820HK @ 4.1GHz 32GB DDR4 RAM GeForce GTX 1060 w/6GB GDDR5 VRAM 17" 3840x2160 matte IPS display 500GB SSD 1TB 7200 RPM SATA HDD

      Total cost was about $2300.

      I understand. Cheaper than a mac by a factor of 100. My bottom level ipad air cost me my entire life's savings,

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    40. Re: Although I would never trust them.. by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      They added one in the latest version, but its not something they really want to support. We are in an era now where features are actively held back because of the fear idiots might access them, raising support costs.

      --
      Good-bye
    41. Re:Although I would never trust them.. by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      Alienware 17 (2016)

      A desktop replacement that weights as much as two Macbook Pro's put together? So much for comparing comparable products.

    42. Re: Although I would never trust them.. by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      So just like I said originally, to get Mac OS, you have to buy a heavily overpriced computer.

      No, it means they don't compete in the $400 POS special or 8 lbs desktop replacements the way Dell does, Hateboi. Do you think that the Prius is an overpriced car and Toyota is a shit company because they don't compete in the dually diesel pickup truck market?

    43. Re:Although I would never trust them.. by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      Then try the Alienware 15 or 13 if you aren't strong enough to carry a few pounds.

      Far be it from me to begrudge someone the occasional sarcastic remark, but that doesn't explain why you tried to bring a wildly different product when the subject is comparable products.

      Also the weak performance and not being able to upgrade a single component in the Macbook are pretty big turn offs.

      Then don't fucking buy one. Buy whatever it is you want that does what you want. Do you hang around car lots and sneer at anyone who's shopping for a 15 passenger van because it doesn't do what you want - have the gas milage and parkability of a Prius?

      For 99% of consumers, the processor in a Macbook Pro will become obsolete far earlier than the 16 gigs of memory. You want more than that? Then buy what you want that does what you want - Zombie Jobs isn't holding a gun to your head.

  4. Duh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Seriously who is surprised by this breaking news?

  5. Of course they do. by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Duh.

    /thread

    --
    It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
  6. Flabberghasted! by scunc · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I for one am shocked--SHOCKED!--that a company that needlessly tracks everything I do would turn around and sell that data to a 3rd party just to increase their profits. I mean, it's almost like they have no respect for the privacy of their users ...
    ---
    Windows 10--the world's first Freemium OS!

    1. Re:Flabberghasted! by DogDude · · Score: 2

      RTFA:
      You can change the level under Diagnostic and usage data and also set the Feedback frequency to Never if you simply want to opt out.

      --
      I don't respond to AC's.
    2. Re:Flabberghasted! by ilsaloving · · Score: 4, Informative

      Except that's not true (unless Microsoft has changed their minds again).

      The lowest Microsoft will permit you to go is Basic unless you are using Enterprise Edition.

    3. Re:Flabberghasted! by zerocommazero · · Score: 1

      You CAN'T fully Opt-out! The options are basic, Full or Enchanced. There is no disable option. There is a registry key but it is ignored unless you are using the Enterprise version.

    4. Re:Flabberghasted! by MyFirstNameIsPaul · · Score: 1

      As expected. Fanboys will be out in force on a thread like this.

      --

      I once took an excursion to Reddit, and later HN. Unlimited up/down voting sucks when dealing with a hive-mind.

  7. Go figure... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

    I found it funny that the Windows 10 Anniversary Update can't install on any of my systems at home because the updater thinks my SSD's are USB sticks and it won't install on USB sticks.

    1. Re:Go figure... by Dorianny · · Score: 5, Informative

      I found it funny that the Windows 10 Anniversary Update can't install on any of my systems at home because the updater thinks my SSD's are USB sticks and it won't install on USB sticks.

      That's a problem with the firmware on SSD's that were released to work with the Windows 7 broken SSD support. SP1 fixed SSD support unfortunately the workaround used by the SSD manufacturers for pre SP1 made them appear as removable devices. Most SSD manufacturers released firmware updates to address the issue. I would check to see if there are firmware updates for yours even if you don't intend to upgrade to windows 10.

    2. Re:Go figure... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      Most SSD manufacturers released firmware updates to address the issue.

      No firmware update available for my SSD model that came out last year. Windows 10 was already installed on the hard drive before I got the SSD drives. I had no trouble migrating from HDD to SSD.

    3. Re:Go figure... by Dorianny · · Score: 1

      Most SSD manufacturers released firmware updates to address the issue.

      No firmware update available for my SSD model that came out last year. Windows 10 was already installed on the hard drive before I got the SSD drives. I had no trouble migrating from HDD to SSD.

      Try switching the SSD from AHCI to legacy IDE mode in the BIOS and see if the installer will accept it. No chance that the installer will see it as removable if its in IDE mode. If it works, before switching back to AHCI set HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\storahci\StartOverride from 3 to 0, or the system might not boot

    4. Re:Go figure... by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      Most SSD manufacturers released firmware updates to address the issue.

      No firmware update available for my SSD model that came out last year. Windows 10 was already installed on the hard drive before I got the SSD drives. I had no trouble migrating from HDD to SSD.

      Try switching the SSD from AHCI to legacy IDE mode in the BIOS and see if the installer will accept it. No chance that the installer will see it as removable if its in IDE mode. If it works, before switching back to AHCI set HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\storahci\StartOverride from 3 to 0, or the system might not boot

      Wow! Windows is making installing LINUX look easy!

    5. Re:Go figure... by Dorianny · · Score: 1

      Wow! Windows is making installing LINUX look easy!

      You obviously haven't attempted a Linux Distribution install in a long time. Now-day's even Debian has a pretty straight-forward "click Next a bunch of times" Installer.

      Rest In Peace Ian Murdock

  8. Microsoft does respect user privacy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    I was a software engineer in Windows Client, back in the good old Vista days. Microsoft's telemetry relies on Event Tracing for Windows (ETW), the lowest latency logging mechanism possible in the operating system, and the ETL files produced therein are usually post-processed by a performance analyst or software engineer to review timing, call stack, and memory utilization. Older OS tools like Dr. Watson were components of the Windows Customer Experience Program, and we would get crash dumps and other data from people who opted in.

    Once, I wanted to look directly at a willing customer's machine remotely so I could gather some more information and do a debugging session. Remember, this was a willing customer who volunteered for this in his crash report. To do this, I had to go to a special training class on privacy and get permission from my management chain, just to look at the crash dump info.

    This except is from Microsoft's current telemetry policy, found here: https://technet.microsoft.com/itpro/windows/manage/configure-windows-telemetry-in-your-organization

    These are the same policies we had to follow then. We really had to follow them, or be fired. It's real.

    However, before more data is gathered, Microsoft’s privacy governance team, including privacy and other subject matter experts, must approve the diagnostics request made by a Microsoft engineer. If the request is approved, Microsoft engineers can use the following capabilities to get the information:

            Ability to run a limited, pre-approved list of Microsoft certified diagnostic tools, such as msinfo32.exe, powercfg.exe, and dxdiag.exe.

            Ability to get registry keys.

            All crash dump types, including heap dumps and full dumps.

    1. Re:Microsoft does respect user privacy by phresno · · Score: 1

      How does this apply to them wholesale sending data to 3rd parties who are not subject to their internal policies?

    2. Re:Microsoft does respect user privacy by QuietLagoon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If Microsoft did respect user privacy, then Microsoft would not collect the telemetry data in Windows 10 and subsequently sell that data to third parties.

    3. Re:Microsoft does respect user privacy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The bullshit floweth over. If MS is so concerned with privacy, then why can't I as a paying customer shut the fucking telemetry off?

      Privacy only works as a policy implemented from top to bottom with no holes in between. I don't give two flying fucks whether you had to go to a "special training class". That just enforces the fact that the wall you speak of was indeed the strongest link in the entire privacy chain.

      The weakest? Do I even need to say it? Constantly sending data over the public internet to the mothership's server with no way for the client to opt-out without being a $1mm+ enterprise customer. Duh.

      Oh, and let's not even talk about the misleading Win 10 upgrade box that forced millions of computers to buy into this constant spying bullshit with no way out. And sneakily turning the privacy option buttons back on after the user applied a (forced) update.

      Marketing drives your revenue so you guys are a marketing company first and foremost, a software company distant second. Don't try to make it sound like you guys are all "engineery" and shit when it comes to privacy in the customer's best interest.

      Windows 10 is all about adjusting the customer's privacy level to that which maximizes Microsoft's revenue.

    4. Re:Microsoft does respect user privacy by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      How does this apply to them wholesale sending data to 3rd parties who are not subject to their internal policies?

      Who said anything about wholesale data?

      From what anyone knows they are getting part of the telemetry data. What does that mean? No one knows, because we don't even know what's being collected in the first place.

    5. Re:Microsoft does respect user privacy by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      If Microsoft did respect user privacy, then Microsoft would not collect the telemetry data in Windows 10 and subsequently sell that data to third parties.

      Not all data is equal. You want to share crash reports of mine? Go ahead. You want to share what's currently on my screen? GTFO!

      All we know is that in the grand scheme of things we know nothing because we don't know what is collected, we don't know how it is anonymised, and we don't know what or how it's shared.

      They could be protecting your privacy very well. They could also be sharing videos of you naked at your computer along with your name and telephone number.

    6. Re:Microsoft does respect user privacy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I don't know how this got modded up as high as it has. Your statement is not much more than 'selective' ancient facts mixed with 'selective' current facts and blended into a nice little story that doesn't represent any of the real facts.

      I was a software engineer in Windows Client, back in the good old Vista days

      That doesn't qualify you to say squat about windows 10. That's no better than saying "I was a mechanic back in the good old Model T days" like it gives you any expertise to comment on a modern fuel-injected auto mobile when all you've ever worked on are carburetors and crank starts. Things have changed and your past experience here is irrelevant.

      These are the same policies we had to follow then. We really had to follow them, or be fired. It's real.

      Again, what YOU had to do back in the day does not make it real today. The internet, and businesses built around, change daily.

      The 'excerpt' you selectively quoted was from the FULL level of telemetry (there are four levels: Basic, Enhanced, Security and Full). BTW Enhanced level is:

      "This is the default level for Windows 10 Enterprise and Windows 10 Education editions, and the minimum level needed to quickly identify and address Windows, Windows Server, and System Center quality issues"

      So it's not even 4 levels of telemetry in reality. It's just two. Enhanced (and everything that comes with the preceding levels) and Full.

      The last level of telemetry (Full) clearly states (from your quote) "before MORE data is gathered". More than the previous three levels. In fact, all Full level telemetry allows you to do 'more' of, is to run pre-approved tools on the device, get registry keys and crash dumps. That's it. ALL the telemetry has already been given up by the previous three levels, without any " Microsoft’s privacy governance team" intervention at all. That's not 'more information by permission', it's manually handling the box 'after all information has been given without permission'. Not that it matters, because it only applies to 'client organizations', not Microsoft itself. You really had to dig deep into the document to come up with your misleading quote. Makes me wonder why.

      Here are some other quotes from the document, from the levels that don't require any additional permissions:

      General app data and app data for Internet Explorer add-ons. Includes a list of apps that are installed on a native or virtualized instance of the OS and whether these apps function correctly after an upgrade. This app data includes the app name, publisher, version, and basic details about which files have been blocked from usage.

      App usage data. Includes how an app is used, including how long an app is used, when the app has focus, and when the app is started

      Internet Explorer add-ons. Includes a list of Internet Explorer add-ons that are installed on a device and whether these apps will work after an upgrade.

      Windows Store. Provides information about how the Windows Store performs, including app downloads, installations, and updates. It also includes Windows Store launches, page views, suspend and resumes, and obtaining licenses.

      Some crash dump types. All crash dump types, except for heap dumps and full dumps.

      And my favourite:

      If the Connected User Experience and Telemetry component detects a problem on Windows 10 that requires gathering more detailed instrumentation, the Connected User Experience and Telemetry component at the Enhanced telemetry level will only gather data about the events associated with the specific issue.

      Which is a catch all to collect anything, because ... 'problem'.
      And all of this applies to enterprise windows ONLY. Consumer users have no choice in deciding what telemetry levels they wish to allow.

    7. Re:Microsoft does respect user privacy by yuhong · · Score: 1

      This is a good time to mention https://blogs.technet.microsof...
      MS at least does have an attempt to protect privacy in crash dumps (dating long before Win10 BTW): https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.c...

    8. Re:Microsoft does respect user privacy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      FYI: Crash dump may contain system memory, including the webcam.

    9. Re:Microsoft does respect user privacy by WaffleMonster · · Score: 1

      I was a software engineer in Windows Client, back in the good old Vista days. Microsoft's telemetry relies on Event Tracing for Windows (ETW), the lowest latency logging mechanism possible in the operating system, and the ETL files produced therein are usually post-processed by a performance analyst or software engineer to review timing, call stack, and memory utilization. Older OS tools like Dr. Watson were components of the Windows Customer Experience Program, and we would get crash dumps and other data from people who opted in.

      Once, I wanted to look directly at a willing customer's machine remotely so I could gather some more information and do a debugging session. Remember, this was a willing customer who volunteered for this in his crash report. To do this, I had to go to a special training class on privacy and get permission from my management chain, just to look at the crash dump info.

      This except is from Microsoft's current telemetry policy, found here: https://technet.microsoft.com/...

      Ability to run a limited, pre-approved list of Microsoft certified diagnostic tools, such as msinfo32.exe, powercfg.exe, and dxdiag.exe.

      Ability to get registry keys.

      All crash dump types, including heap dumps and full dumps.

      Nice try Microsoft Shill - DEFAULT "privacy" settings for Windows 10 grants MS this access. There is no OPT-IN or people explicitly granting anything there is only an IMPLICIT reliance on IGNORANCE.... You know those foolish enough to buy a computer and just use it as-is. They "deserve" what they get right?

      There is no dialogue or prompt or message the user sees to control or approve of explicit data being EXFILTRATED from their systems WITHOUT THEIR KNOWLEDGE. You don't even obtain EXPLICIT CONSENT. What you rely on is legalese buried in a bunch of bullshit nobody reads or understands.

      These are the same policies we had to follow then. We really had to follow them, or be fired. It's real.

      I suspect you'll find people simply don't give a fuck what policies you have or how the data is or is not being used. They just don't want their data being sent anywhere for any reason. Simply NONE of Microsoft's or anyone else's business.

    10. Re:Microsoft does respect user privacy by theskipper · · Score: 1

      Is this 2.0 version of "security through obscurity"...now it's "security through anecdote"?

    11. Re:Microsoft does respect user privacy by enrique556 · · Score: 1

      A microsoft software engineer who can't spell excerpt? Anyway..
      For microsoft to force users to surrender telemetry data, and then have the audacity to claim that they respect user privacy, is beyond the pale. You are completely and utterly out of touch with reality. The very fact that you have the opportunity to access users' data without their express permission is the problem; what you do with that data once you've taken it is beside the point.

    12. Re:Microsoft does respect user privacy by Waccoon · · Score: 1

      Policies are for the little people... like you.

      If the EULA basically translates to, "We do what the fuck we want and we can change our minds at any time and you automatically agree to said changes without even seeing them", then I'm not dealing with such a company.

    13. Re:Microsoft does respect user privacy by strikethree · · Score: 1

      These are the same policies we had to follow then. We really had to follow them, or be fired. It's real.

      While I have no reason to believe the veracity of your story, I will take it at its face value and give you some advice: The reason you were made to go to the class about privacy and such is because you are an engineer. This data is not for you. If you had been in marketing, the same data would have been available to you but without all of those pesky controls.

      --
      "Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
  9. Re:Can we moderate front page stories now. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If it were up to me, stories about Windows spyware would be in the news constantly. Why shouldn't it be? Do you want people to forget that it's there?

  10. Overblown comments on this story! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I don't see an issue here. This company is no different than AVG and Kaspersky when it comes to anti-virus services. Both AVG and Kaspersky collect info to better detect threats. The new anti-virus feature that will be implemented into DEFENDER will greatly help against cyber threats. I doubt MS is monetizing your personal data. Regardless of what the patriot act says It's illegal for any company to take what ever is on your hard drive(personal files) and sell it to third parties.

    1. Re:Overblown comments on this story! by fbobraga · · Score: 1

      DEFENDER

      any serious business had really used this shit? I think not...

    2. Re:Overblown comments on this story! by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      This company is no different than AVG and Kaspersky when it comes to anti-virus services.

      It's very different. With software from AVG or anyone else, you have a choice. If you object to their collection practices, you can simply not use their software. That's not really the case with Windows for most people. You're locked in, and you can't turn the collection off.

  11. I'm worried, but not concerned by ZipK · · Score: 1, Insightful

    If you're worried about that, the news that Microsoft is sharing telemetry data with third parties might concern you.

    I'm worried about this, but not concerned, because my worry motivated me to drop Microsoft entirely.

    1. Re: I'm worried, but not concerned by UltraZelda64 · · Score: 1

      You only just now decided to do that? I jumped off that sinking ship known as XP when the dark storm known as Vista started approaching and became too close for comfort. This was 2004-2006... there was a brief transition period during tht time when I was dual-booting but almost always using Linux, but since I blew away those NTFS partitions I never looked back. It's been great.

    2. Re: I'm worried, but not concerned by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      You only just now decided to do that? I jumped off that sinking ship known as XP when the dark storm known as Vista started approaching and became too close for comfort. This was 2004-2006... there was a brief transition period during tht time when I was dual-booting but almost always using Linux, but since I blew away those NTFS partitions I never looked back. It's been great.

      And I've never OWNED a Windows-based computer. My only experiences with them have been through employers, or others that asked me to troubleshoot their (many and varied) Windows issues.

      For that, I am forever grateful that I don't have to deal with that crap on my Apple gear. Because I am their Customer, not their Product.

  12. Spybot Anti Beacon by nospam007 · · Score: 1

    Just get Spybot anti beacon, and you're good to go, no more phoning home.

    1. Re:Spybot Anti Beacon by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

      Sure. Until Windows anti-malware starts identifying Spybot as malware and deletes it.

  13. FireEye has a product called iSIGHT?? by haruchai · · Score: 1

    Hope they've put aside some money to defend against a lawsuit from Apple

    --
    Pain is merely failure leaving the body
  14. Re:NAWBO by fbobraga · · Score: 1

    totally unrelated things, Sexist Anonymous Coward...

  15. "Telemetry" Is More Than It Sounds... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Telemetry data recorded by Windows 10 is, in a nutshell, just technical information about the device the OS is on, and how Windows and any installed software is performing, but it can occasionally include personal information.

    That bit "about any installed software," includes per Microsoft's own documentation on the mandatory Basic telemetry level:
    App usage data. Includes how an app is used, including how long an app is used, when the app has focus, and when the app is started
    So basically a record of every program you run, when you ran it, when you were looking it, and how long you ran it for.

    1. Re:"Telemetry" Is More Than It Sounds... by q4Fry · · Score: 1

      Mod parent informative.

  16. Surprised there is so much to share by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    Microsoft Shares Windows 10 Telemetry Data

    Back when I used Windows there were many times I wanted to throw the computer across the room, but I never actually did it...

    Windows 10 must be one hell of an update.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  17. Re:What prevents monetizing personal data? Nothing by yuhong · · Score: 1

    For the most part, they do keep SQM and crash dumps etc separate from ad tracking though.

  18. Use Shut Up Windows 10 by Sarusa · · Score: 1

    If you're on Win 10 and you care, use Shut Up Windows 10 ( https://www.oo-software.com/en... ).

    You'll have less telemetry than Windows 7 or 8, MacOS, and probably Ubuntu (I forget, are they spying this month or not?).

    1. Re:Use Shut Up Windows 10 by Motherfucking+Shit · · Score: 1

      If you're on Win 10 and you care

      Those two are mutually exclusive. If you care about your privacy, you aren't on Windows 10.

      --
      "BSD: Free as in speech. Linux: Free as in beer. Windows 10: Free as in herpes." --Man On Pink Corner in #52607549.
    2. Re:Use Shut Up Windows 10 by Sarusa · · Score: 1

      You use what you need to. Sometimes I use Windows, sometimes I use BSD, sometimes I use MacOS, sometimes I use Debian, sometimes CentOS yadda yadda yadda. The craftsman skill is to know the strengths and weaknesses of each one and how to fix them. They're all sgreat in various ways and all shit in various ways and they can all be redeemed if you know how.

      Or you can just hold your nose and be RMS tootling his recorder while dancing in a tutu.

  19. Only use Microsoft for games by AHuxley · · Score: 1

    Every file could get realtime scans with networked checksums. So don't have any files of interest to any NGO, gov, charity, mil or the private sector on any Windows computer.

    --
    Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  20. Using normal user data to help enterprise. Strange by Streetlight · · Score: 1

    My question involves differences in the ways which the normal users use their Home editions of Windows 10 software and enterprise users use the various enterprise editions. How can the telemetry data from home users be used to help enterprise users? First, I'm guessing no enterprise is ever going to allow telemetry data to escape its premises. I would also expect any enterprise is going to try to make use of the strongest security measures possible, although we sometimes read about incredible stupidity when enterprise data is compromised. Enterprises want to protect their proprietary secrets. Anyway, I'm not sure the telemetry data from home users would be too much value in solving enterprise problems particularly if they involve security considering the kinds of attacks that enterprises suffer compared to that of home users. Discovering other difficulties with enterprise software from problems with home software seems a stretch.

    Other Questions: What's FireEye going to do with the data and how secure is it in their hands?

    --
    In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell
  21. Ever notice? by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1
    In every Windows telemetry story we get here, the first couple comments deny the truth, then ist' soff to the races deflecting the truth to the olde Windows Versus Mac chestnut.

    The post truth is strong in the Slashdeflectors.

    As proof, watch this get modded down as flamebiat or troll in 3..2..1..

    --
    The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
  22. Enterprise customers benefit? by Trogre · · Score: 1

    The only thing enterprise customers benefit from is the ability to turn it off.

    --
    "Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
    1. Re:Enterprise customers benefit? by vandamme · · Score: 1

      How many times do you see "In order to better serve our customers....." , and how many times do you believe it?

    2. Re:Enterprise customers benefit? by DeVilla · · Score: 1

      That benefit has just increased in value. Money well spent?